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Speaker 1: They'll probably be pushing towards one of those Winter Meetings

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Speaker 1: types deals where if they you know, kind of get

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Speaker 1: what they want and get the big press conference at

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Speaker 1: the Winter Meetings.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 2: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. Were your Cubs

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Speaker 2: beat writers for The Athletic Patrick. A crazy Halloween for

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Speaker 2: the Cubs as they hire a third base coach, The

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Speaker 2: exciting start to a frenzied off season. No, really, you know,

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Speaker 2: Craig Council is starting to shape his staff. We've we've

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Speaker 2: talked about this a bit, how it was kind of

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Speaker 2: a rushed process. I know he liked to take his time.

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Speaker 2: He's a he's a methodical person when it comes to

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Speaker 2: these things, and and did try and take his time

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Speaker 2: last year, but it wasn't an ideal, ideal timing for

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Speaker 2: him to really look at every candidate. And this time around, he's, uh,

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Speaker 2: he's taken someone from Milwaukee. I don't believe their new

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Speaker 2: third base coach, Quinton Berry was ever actually a coach

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Speaker 2: under Craig Council. Am I remembering that correctly?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: He was actually last year was his He was just

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Speaker 2: in the minor leagues until last year.

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Speaker 3: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 4: No, he was, he was. He was a coach.

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Speaker 3: Okay, he was.

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Speaker 1: He was what prior to that, he was a minor

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Speaker 1: league coordinator with the Brewers and they got promoted to

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Speaker 1: the big league staff, and so he's had like four

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Speaker 1: years of major league coaching experience on it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, really good team, Okay, Okay, I don't know why I.

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Speaker 3: Think for reading our story, that's why. What did I say?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Maybe I forgot what year it was on October? Oh okay,

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Speaker 2: that's what I read wrong. Uh yeah, okay, okay, uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: good work here.

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Speaker 3: Taking it off well.

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Speaker 2: But what I do know is that Barry is exceptional

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Speaker 2: when it comes to his coaching for base running, and

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Speaker 2: that is an area where you know, the advanced stats

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Speaker 2: actually liked the Cubs on base running, but.

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Speaker 4: They need the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the coaching staff disagreed, the front office disagrees. When

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Speaker 2: it comes to the base running metric. On fangrafs, the

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Speaker 2: Cubs were fifth, but you know who was far and

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Speaker 2: away first was the Milwaukee Brewers. They were the number

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Speaker 2: one team in base running according to this stat I

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Speaker 2: think where the Cubs probably get a lot of bonus

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Speaker 2: points is because they were good at base stealing, ye

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Speaker 2: base running. There were a lot of mistakes and it

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Speaker 2: was something the coaches noticed, it was something great Council noticed,

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Speaker 2: and it's something the front office wanted to wanted to address,

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Speaker 2: and I think Barry is the first step in that,

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Speaker 2: no doubt.

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Speaker 1: And it was funny tweeting out our story and seeing

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Speaker 1: just some of the anger. Well, I guess there's always

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Speaker 1: anger on Twitter, but just the rage that is still

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Speaker 1: out there towards Craig Council's decision to leave Milwaukee.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a good hire.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a good opportunity for Barry as well,

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Speaker 1: someone who presumably has designs on maybe bigger roles in baseball,

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Speaker 1: like wouldn't rule out.

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Speaker 4: Being on a potential manager track. I mean, this is

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Speaker 4: someone who.

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Speaker 1: Played for Tony Gwyn at San Diego State, who carved

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Speaker 1: out a major league playing career, put himself on a

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Speaker 1: very fast track on the coaching side, and look, this

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Speaker 1: is the guy who's trusted by teams who wanted to

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Speaker 1: win the World Series. He was on this sort of

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Speaker 1: cycle of minor league deals where he'd hopped from one

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Speaker 1: team to another in.

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Speaker 4: Case they had a Dave Roberts moment.

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Speaker 1: Guy who could pinch run and steal a base, and

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Speaker 1: that takes a lot of nerve, a lot of instincts

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Speaker 1: as well as some technical skills that you know, he

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Speaker 1: can impart to the Cubs and nice sounding board for

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Speaker 1: Counsel and the guy who played very recently two and

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Speaker 1: has gotten a lot of hands on experience for a

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Speaker 1: team that look, we've we've seen it for years now,

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Speaker 1: that does the little things really well and frustrated the

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Speaker 1: Cubs to no end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my understanding is that Council thinks very highly of him.

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Speaker 2: You know, my brain thought he was in the minor

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Speaker 2: league for some reason.

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Speaker 3: I did, I have.

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Speaker 4: You're just binging.

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Speaker 2: But I I remember last offseason having some people suggest

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Speaker 2: him as a potential bench coach. I couldn't confirm whether

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Speaker 2: he was ever interviewed or not, but uh that those

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Speaker 2: those suggestions came because people were like, Counsel's a fan,

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Speaker 2: Council likes the way he works. Council had a lot

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Speaker 2: of praise for Ryan Flaherty as bench coach as well.

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Speaker 2: So I mean these like I you have to appreciate

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Speaker 2: that he's.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 2: Coaching only can impact the game so much, Right, It's

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Speaker 2: it's about the players.

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Speaker 3: In the end, right.

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Speaker 2: I like to think, like when people want to point

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Speaker 2: to the hitting coach, Oh, no, what's wrong with their offense?

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Speaker 2: Fire the hitting coach, I like to point to the

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Speaker 2: players and say, like that that's the problem. Okay, Like,

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Speaker 2: very rarely is it the hitting coach's fault. Very rarely

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Speaker 2: is it the coach's fault. But when you have impact coaches,

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Speaker 2: it's it's one of those you know, small things that

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Speaker 2: can go unnoticed. That's that can be the difference in

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Speaker 2: in a winner or loss. I mean, we don't need

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Speaker 2: to go much further than looking at the past five

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Speaker 2: the last five games of baseball that that were just played.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: Those stats are jarring. Uh when when you look at

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Speaker 2: what happened in the World Series and the stats you'd

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Speaker 2: normally look at, right, just like offense, uh, pitch e RA,

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Speaker 2: batting average, RBI whatever, like all those things the Yankees

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Speaker 2: did better. You know what, they were terrible at base

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Speaker 2: running and defense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: The Cubs need to the Cubs have a solid defense

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Speaker 2: and it probably can get tightened up in spots, but

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Speaker 2: very you know, very very good defense, above average defense.

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Speaker 2: If they can, if berries impactful in this area. I

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Speaker 2: think that's important. And I think you know, Council recognizes

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Speaker 2: that he's looking for any advantage you can find. Uh,

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Speaker 2: And you know, maybe that's the difference in adding a

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Speaker 2: winner to over the course of one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: two games. I don't want to put it all on

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Speaker 2: a coach, but you have the right people in place,

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Speaker 2: you can you can you.

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Speaker 3: Know, get an edge here or there.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what when when we're talking about how

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Speaker 2: like the marginal difference, like what did we talk about

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Speaker 2: so much during the season, Like they have no margin

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Speaker 2: for air or they can't make the mistakes, they can't

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Speaker 2: do these things that they're not good enough, right and

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Speaker 2: and maybe maybe they like ideally they get to a

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Speaker 2: point where you're not playing within the margins like that,

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Speaker 2: and that's for an extra win or two.

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Speaker 3: But this helps, right in theory, there's no help them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he'll be a problem. Like this is a perfectly

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Speaker 4: fine conversation leading into the GM meetings. If we're like

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Speaker 4: we out.

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Speaker 1: After the winter meeting, it's like, well, you know, they

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Speaker 1: said that couldn't, which kind of was last winter, right,

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Speaker 1: and so well he got counseled and no other new players.

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Speaker 1: But no, I think that's a good thought to kind

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Speaker 1: of wrap up this segment and look ahead to the

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Speaker 1: dm DM meetings and sort of a who stays in

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Speaker 1: who goes a portion of the offseason.

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Speaker 2: All right, Patrick, let's take a little look at the

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Speaker 2: Cubs roster. Uh, the coaches, like we said, aren't can't

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Speaker 2: be the biggest difference maker is on the team. It's

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Speaker 2: about the players and and yes, free agency trades all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. Listen though, that's that's got to be where

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Speaker 2: the differences are made, right, Like, that's where the fans

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Speaker 2: care most about. That's where frankly, you and I probably

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Speaker 2: care most about. Like it's the most interesting thing that

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Speaker 2: can happen this offseason.

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Speaker 3: But we were we're.

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Speaker 2: Working on a piece for next week that'll kind of

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Speaker 2: set up the off season and one of the one

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Speaker 2: of the topics is the arbitration non tender decisions. And listen,

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Speaker 2: this stuff is like it can become minutia at a

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Speaker 2: certain point. I think it's kind of fascinating because there

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Speaker 2: are some interesting minimum names that they have decisions on.

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Speaker 2: I mean the list is what like fifteen players deep

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Speaker 2: about but some of them are obvious, Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: are they gonna tender Colton Brewer? Probably not, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's a real hard decision. Are they

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Speaker 2: gonna tender Justin Steel? Yeah, yeah, they're gonna tender Justin Steel.

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Speaker 2: There's obvious ones, but I think there are some interesting ones.

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Speaker 2: I mean that there's this middle tier of like Wisdom Talkman,

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Speaker 2: Edward al Zalai, Nick Madrigal, what do you do with

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Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather? Is that worth a one point three million

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Speaker 2: dollar risks? This is the estimation I believe from MLB

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Speaker 2: trade rumors of their price, right. I think those names

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Speaker 2: that I mentioned are kind of interesting, Like, I I'm

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Speaker 2: curious what you think, Like, are there any obvious names

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Speaker 2: that I just mentioned there that stand out to you

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Speaker 2: that you're like, yeah, that that guy's being tendered I

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Speaker 2: don't know why you're debating him or I think that

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Speaker 2: they have a decision to make there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you on that sort of middle tier.

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Speaker 1: And if you break it out into position players like

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Speaker 1: Christian Bethncourt did a nice job. But if it's two

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Speaker 1: point five million and you need to upgrade at catching,

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Speaker 1: and you're keeping miguel O Maaya.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if they bring him back.

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Speaker 1: Talking in Wisdom, I think are nice role players. I

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Speaker 1: think it's just that balance of like when are you

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Speaker 1: going to give Owen Casey some run? Like is Nico

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Speaker 1: Horner going to be available opening day? Like how does

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Speaker 1: that sort of impact the position player group, Like do

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Speaker 1: you want to just like give a little more runway

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Speaker 1: to some of these younger guys? How much if Wrigley

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Speaker 1: played a little more normal, Like what would Patrick Wisdom

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Speaker 1: season look like?

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Speaker 4: Maybe wouldn't even been having this conversation.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at the same time, Talkman's had some

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Speaker 1: huge moments for the Cubs. I think he's a real

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Speaker 1: like grown up in the room and a nice player.

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Speaker 1: Classic gives you a good at bat, can play multiple

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Speaker 1: outfield positions. However, it felt like the last two months

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Speaker 1: of the year, like did he even really play?

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like they kind of roll

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Speaker 4: and then kind of looming over this as well.

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Speaker 1: The position player group is Cody Bellinger opt in or

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Speaker 1: opt out decision, which, to be honest, we have not

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Speaker 1: gotten like total clarity one way or the other. I

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Speaker 1: think there have been uh kind of valid points made

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Speaker 1: for either decision.

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Speaker 4: We've gotten mixed signals right of like not especially lately

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Speaker 4: exact exactly.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's and and that's you know, things get

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Speaker 2: can get murky as decisions are about to be made,

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Speaker 2: right right, and we can hear varying opinions, varying thoughts.

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Speaker 3: But we we definitely I think a week ago or ten.

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Speaker 2: Days ago, if you asked Patrick and I, we were

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Speaker 2: in agreement, like he's opting out right.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a little hesitation there.

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Speaker 2: Now I've gotten some information that that suggests that maybe

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Speaker 2: that's not as certain as it once was. I don't like,

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Speaker 2: I think you've gotten similar feedback.

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk

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Speaker 2: as we felt it was. You know, these things change

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Speaker 2: and things evolve, and I think that's part of the

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Speaker 2: message I got, like he may opt in. These things

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Speaker 2: change like that was, but who knows these That's kind

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Speaker 2: of the summation of the.

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Speaker 3: Information I got. It's like some people think he may

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Speaker 3: opt in now, but also that's not a slam dunk. Uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't. I don't. I don't feel certain

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Speaker 3: either way.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm definitely hedging on that a little bit when

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Speaker 2: it comes to some of these names. My my thing

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Speaker 2: about Patrick Wisdom is, I like, I think he takes

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Speaker 2: too much heat from.

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Speaker 3: Fans, right, No, No, I think it takes too much.

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Speaker 2: Heat from fans because he's a part time player that

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Speaker 2: needs to be used in very specific situations. I think

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Speaker 2: a big part of why fans disliked it is because

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Speaker 2: a lot of times Craig Counsel was pinch hitting Michael

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Speaker 2: Busch that, you know, sitting Michael Busch in favor of

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Speaker 2: Patrick Wisdom against a lefty.

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Speaker 3: We could debate that. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: I think Wisdom has a role and he was deployed

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Speaker 2: as best as as is, you know, for his skill set.

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Speaker 2: I just wonder is three million dollars for a guy

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Speaker 2: whose best skill set is is power and only real?

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's his he it's a crap out of

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Speaker 2: the ball. But is that is that where you want

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Speaker 2: to allocate those funds? That they're not the Mets, they're

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Speaker 2: not the Dodgers. I remember someone telling me the Mets

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Speaker 2: can just you know, outbid when when the Mets were

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Speaker 2: in that outbidding off season and it was just like

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Speaker 2: random reliever, Like I think it was Brooks ralely. It's

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Speaker 2: like Hems were interested in Brooks raally and they're like,

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Speaker 2: we can't sign Brooks. Really they're getting offering him like

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Speaker 2: five million more than we'd even think.

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Speaker 3: About, Like it's you know, things like that.

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Speaker 2: So they're not that team, so they like three million

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Speaker 2: dollars matters to them? Is there someone that they can

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Speaker 2: get Like here are the two things I was thinking.

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Speaker 2: Is there someone they can get that value from in

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Speaker 2: the minors that they see right handed just pure slug

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Speaker 2: or is their goal this offseason to find an everyday

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Speaker 2: slugger that makes wisdom a little less valuable with talkman,

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Speaker 2: I think it's a it's a similar it's a different discussion.

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Speaker 3: He's he's so value.

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Speaker 2: You talked about it when you talked about him barely playing,

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Speaker 2: but he showed out valuable he was when barely playing.

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Speaker 3: He could handle that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: He can be like he can be that step in

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Speaker 2: for a month and a half because you're starting center fielder,

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Speaker 2: right fielder, whatever outfielder got injured, uh and and be productive.

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Speaker 2: Or he can be that kind that barely plays and

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Speaker 2: give you a quality at bat. I think that's valuable.

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Speaker 2: The problem is Kevin al Contra Owen Casey, potential free agent,

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Speaker 2: potential trade guy, Like all of those guys are going

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Speaker 2: to fit that that they want to either they want

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Speaker 2: to get someone in there that's an outfielder slash d

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Speaker 2: H right and all likely that's the that's a fit.

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Speaker 2: That's the easiest way to upgrade this this offense outside

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Speaker 2: of catcher. So I wonder like he's too valuable to

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Speaker 2: just non tender in my opinion, But is he just

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Speaker 2: is he a fit for this team when you have

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Speaker 2: young guys? So I think maybe he's a tender candidate

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Speaker 2: that you look to trade. I think Al's lies the

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Speaker 2: interesting one. Do you want him rehabbing for two point

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Speaker 2: three million dollars? He's not in all likelihood like Council

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Speaker 2: wouldn't give us an answer if he's out for next

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Speaker 2: year just yet. That was when he just had the surgery.

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Speaker 2: He didn't want to give timelines. I think Nick Madrigal

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Speaker 2: may be done with the Cups.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: If I'm there's no there's no reason to bring him back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see it, like unless you think he

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Speaker 2: like you wouldn't want him to be the guy stepping

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Speaker 2: in for Nico. I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: That's what mat for, That's what James just feels like

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Speaker 1: that ship has.

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Speaker 4: Sailed in my mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I I think like, I just think

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Speaker 2: these are interesting decisions in the sense that they are names,

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Speaker 2: right that we've seen play over the past two three years,

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Speaker 2: and it may be time to like who are the

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Speaker 2: guys you keep? Who are the guys you know, like

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Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather's an interesting one, always hurt. Is one point

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Speaker 2: three million dollars the market value for him because of

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Speaker 2: his upside?

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Speaker 3: Or is that?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: And I think it will also tell us a little

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Speaker 2: bit about how how you know how much are they

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Speaker 2: counting every million? Every hundred thousand?

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Speaker 3: Like it?

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Speaker 2: You know, is one point three million too much for

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Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather?

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Speaker 3: Okay? What are they doing here?

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Speaker 4: Is that?

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Speaker 2: Is that because they are are worried about his upside

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Speaker 2: and his health? You know, he didn't flash enough when

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Speaker 2: he was out there, you know, Like that's what kind

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Speaker 2: of goes through my head, Like Nate Pearson obvious, right,

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Speaker 2: you're no doubt like the rest of these I think

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Speaker 2: the relievers in some of these names that we've just

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Speaker 2: seen play a lot over the past two three years

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Speaker 2: are the ones that I look at and then I

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Speaker 2: agree with the Unbouinger. I think that's it's going to

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Speaker 2: be interesting to see how this plays out. These next Well,

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Speaker 2: we'll know by the next time we record a podcast,

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Speaker 2: I believe will know what's happening, and.

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Speaker 3: It's I guess.

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Speaker 2: Then we can really start talking about here's how they Well,

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Speaker 2: we can ask Jed will be at the GM meetings, like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this decision has been made. How do you attack this

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Speaker 2: off season? What like how how much like can you

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Speaker 2: laser focus in on different things. I'm curious what their

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Speaker 2: answer will be and how they're going to attack the

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Speaker 2: off season with or without Bellinger.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be rare to like look at

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Speaker 1: one Domino having such a big impact, like so early

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Speaker 1: in the off season, because in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: this roster is sort of set. You're talking about roughly

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Speaker 1: what thirty million dollars, Like if you you are calculating

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Speaker 1: these sort of non tender decisions, and maybe he is

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Speaker 1: that sort of everyday guy you can just run it

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Speaker 1: back for another year with him. One of our things,

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Speaker 1: to your point, if you could trade a talkman, or

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Speaker 1: you can essentially cut these guys for a fraction of

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Speaker 1: the price by a certain date in spring training, and

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Speaker 1: you can look it up in the CBA. But like,

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Speaker 1: it's not a fully guaranteed ten.

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Speaker 4: In November.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, certainly those things add up. I am curious

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Speaker 1: to hear kind of how Jed spends it. I think

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Speaker 1: he'd be sort of fine either way.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 1: They'd obviously like flexibility, so getting that money back would

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Speaker 1: I think probably be appealing. But but Bellinger's a good player.

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Speaker 1: He fits this team still really really well. And he

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Speaker 1: is someone who has that MVP capability.

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Speaker 4: There aren't that many.

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Speaker 1: Guys just out there who you could say, like, yeah, like,

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Speaker 1: if everything breaks right, he might be a top five.

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Speaker 4: MVP candidate next year.

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Speaker 1: That's just kind of where he plays, what he does,

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Speaker 1: how he kind of fits for this particular group.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and I think it's it's easy to

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Speaker 2: just look at last season and say he's not worth

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Speaker 2: that money and and forget about what he did the

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Speaker 2: year before, or or also say like the Wrigley stuff

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Speaker 2: is an excuse.

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Speaker 3: It's I don't think it's an excuse.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a reality, right, And it's just like

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Speaker 2: it has to be factored in. I I'm very curious

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Speaker 2: to see how like, not just how it plays out,

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Speaker 2: but like the reaction by fans, uh and and then

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Speaker 2: and then like how good he can be next year

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Speaker 2: if he comes back, because I think there's a chance

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Speaker 2: that he could put together an even better season because

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of what happened at Wrigley was

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00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 2: a bit of randomness, and you know, if he can

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Speaker 2: play like even close to how he played on the

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00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 2: road at home, you're talking about a pretty dang good

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Speaker 2: season and someone that you know likely then opts out

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Speaker 2: of a final it would be the yeah, a final

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Speaker 2: third year and then hits free agency at what thirty

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Speaker 2: is that? Right?

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Speaker 4: Thirty roughly, and the.

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Speaker 1: Salary would go down significantly in that in that last

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Speaker 1: year as a front rod.

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Speaker 4: So it's kind of a no.

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Speaker 2: Brainer, right right, Okay, all right, Patrick, We're going to

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Speaker 2: talk more about Cody Bellinger in the weeks to come.

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Speaker 2: At the minimum, next episode will be likely a Cody

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Speaker 2: Bellinger heavy episode, So so we'll we'll touch base on

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00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 2: Cody Bellinger again and figure out how this decision plays out.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's uh, let's take a quick break and wrap

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00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: this podcast up. All right, Patrick, As we saw, the

403
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 2: Yankees lost the World Series and with that, one of

404
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: the best players in baseball will be entering free agency.

405
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: Juan Soto will be a free agent officially on what

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Speaker 2: is it five days after the World Series ends, So

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Speaker 2: that's Monday, when when I believe, if I'm doing my

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00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 2: math right, I'm probably not.

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Speaker 1: H whatever, talk to all thirty teams and yeah, yeah,

410
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: whatever the technicality is.

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00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't go full Garrett Cole.

412
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Speaker 2: I don't think he had a Boris Corp hat on

413
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Speaker 2: while doing his postgame interviews.

414
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Speaker 3: But he was pretty open and I appreciate that.

415
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Speaker 2: I don't like, I think the whole like I want

416
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Speaker 2: to do anything to.

417
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Speaker 3: Come back to the Yankees. This is where I belong.

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Speaker 2: Like, unless you like sign an extension right there, I

419
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: think that rings pretty hollow. And he said what he said,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's important and like to be honest,

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00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: and he was just like, you know, he's gonna listen

422
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Speaker 2: to everyone.

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Speaker 3: And and I.

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Speaker 2: Think a lot of different outlets ESPN also at the

425
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: Athletic various different outlets are putting out predictions, but it

426
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: seems like New York, New York, and then LA as

427
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: like a sleeper, right, Dodgers is like a sleeper. But

428
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: that's that's what everyone's talking about, right, I don't the

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00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 2: Cubs are barely mentioned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think the Cubs are spending a lot

431
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: of time on like a Wan Soto recruiting video. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, and they've totally misled us over the last

433
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: whatever six seven years. But yeah, for the athletic it

434
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: was grouped in different here then essentially of half the league,

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00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: that's just like no chance at all, And that might

436
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: even be you know, conservative, a conservative estimate. I think

437
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: the Dodgers made me think of something. I think it

438
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: was few.

439
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 4: Had observed kind of coming out of the John Lester

440
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 4: negotiations of.

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Speaker 1: Even at that time, the Dodgers just had so much

442
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: money and like so much sort of cachet and ambition

443
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: that they had this ability to quick strike at any point,

444
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: Like they didn't think Lester wanted to like go to

445
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: the Dodgers obviously wanted to come to Chicago, but they felt,

446
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, the Giants put on a full court press.

447
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 4: The Red Sox.

448
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: Sort of was lurking around there, and then it was

449
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: like the Dodgers are just not really knowing exactly what

450
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: Lester wanted at that point and what the Dodgers wanted,

451
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: but that they just had this ability where they could,

452
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: like at any point just sort of jump in and

453
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, almost a decade later, most a

454
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: full decade later, and it's kind of the same thing

455
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: where like, do you think they'll sign Soto? Like probably

456
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: not the favorite, but like should the Yankees and mess

457
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: be worried about it, no doubt? I mean if they

458
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: I mean, look trading for Mookie Betts and signing that

459
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: monster extension in the middle of a pandemic, Like did

460
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: people think Freddy Freeman was gonna wine up at Dodger Stadium? Uh,

461
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: Dodger certainly favorite for oh Tani, But do anyone think

462
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: that contract structure would be the ultimate form of that deal?

463
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: Like, no chance. So it will be fascinating.

464
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: I'd imagine this is not something where uh, things are

465
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: gonna crater for mister Soto or mister Boris that they'll

466
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: probably be pushing towards one of those Winter Meetings types

467
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: deals where if they you know, kind of get what

468
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: they want and get the big press conference at the

469
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: winter Winter Meetings. But I know you've been asking around

470
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: about Soto for a while now, and I don't know.

471
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: You're not very optimistic about that pursuits in Chicago, are you.

472
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you said it like unless we've

473
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: been misled for years now. It's just not not It's

474
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: not that the Cubs aren't in a place to do it,

475
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: like I think it makes all the sense in the world.

476
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: I just don't think it's it's the way the Rickets operate.

477
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: And when I say that, it's not like Rickets won't

478
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: give Jed the money to do that.

479
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: It's it's what Jed knows will happen when he uses

480
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: that money like that.

481
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: Now it's like they don't bump it up all of

482
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 2: a sudden and now they have two hundred and seventy

483
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: million to spend. It just really like listen to the

484
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: way Carter Jed talk and they talk about financial flexibility.

485
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: They would lose a lot of flexibility if they listen.

486
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: If you want to push back and say, who cares

487
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: about that? Or like maybe sign fewer Trey Mancinis and

488
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: Tucker Barnhart's over the next you know, five years, ten years,

489
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: thirteen years. If that's the pushback, I'm not going to

490
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: argue with that. I think he's worth it. I think

491
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: he's worth the lack of financial flexibility. This is not

492
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: me saying this is the right strategy. I think signing

493
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 2: Juan Soda would be the right move for the Cubs.

494
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: I like, there's just it's just not the way they've

495
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: done things, and it's not any We're not getting any

496
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: indication that they're suddenly changing strategy. I think what I

497
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: will say as far as the free agency is it's

498
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: pretty cool that we get like this insane once in

499
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: a generation talent of Shoheo Tani one off season and

500
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: then the next offseason it's like Ted Williams clone is

501
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: just at age twenty six is a free agent. Like

502
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: that's crazy. Like, I mean, it's very rare that we

503
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: see this. And for me, that's where I start to

504
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: feel bad for the fans. Where it was never really realistic.

505
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: There were there were.

506
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: Some tiny inklings in like tiny moments where it's like,

507
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: are the Cups actually gonna put in a big bid

508
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: for show? Hey, I'm not sure if we'll even get

509
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 2: that with Sodo this winter. But you know, we could

510
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: be off, They could be lurking somehow and we totally

511
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: misread this and got bad signals or were misled. I

512
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: don't think that's the case, and uh, there's a chance,

513
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: and it's kind of like my ultimately, it's a bummer, right, like,

514
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: these two generational talents and the Cubs aren't there on them.

515
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: They'll they'll have to make different moves to excite the

516
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: fan base obviously, but yeah, Sodo, it's gonna be fun

517
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: to watch. And again, like we talked about this briefly,

518
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: whatever the Mets do like there, it feels like they're

519
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: about to become like this powerhouse, this obnoxious powerhouse when

520
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: it comes to free agency and stuff like that between

521
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: them and the Dodgers, like the Cubs are gonna like

522
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: it's gonna be frustrating, I think for Cubs fans to

523
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: watch these types of things where they're just like, you know,

524
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: throwing their weight around and fans are gonna be like,

525
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 2: why can't the Cubs do that? And I honestly I

526
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: feel for Cubs fans when it hasn't happened yet, So

527
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: I guess we'll see what exactly happens. But that's that's

528
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 2: what it feels like is about to happen with the

529
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: Mets for the next few years, if not the foreseeable future,

530
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: no doubt.

531
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: And I mean, if if the Mets want Soto, they're

532
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: going to take this way beyond anywhere the Cubs are comfortable.

533
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: I do think they were legit on Otani.

534
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 4: He made it clear though where he.

535
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: Wanted to play, and the Cubs, I think we're just

536
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: not in a place where they could credibly say, oh, yeah,

537
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: we're going to be competing for the World Series the

538
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: entire length of your contract, and really, to me, it's

539
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: not even as much the salary on an annual basis.

540
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: It's just if he's gonna be getting a contract that's

541
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: almost like double the length of Jason Hayward's contract, like

542
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: that is not going to make Cubs executives very comfortable.

543
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 4: I think that is a.

544
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: Hard sell internally and not a totally unreasonable position. I

545
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: know Soto is extremely young, and that's just kind of

546
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: where this is going.

547
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 4: But in terms of like.

548
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: Selling it to your bosses if you're Jed Hoyer or

549
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: signing off on it, if your ownership, like if you're

550
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: thinking about writing off just like maybe five six years

551
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: of deal. And if your primary goal is sustainability and

552
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: being competitive every single year, and that you're explicitly not

553
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: trying to go all in for one season, then yeah,

554
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: there's just too many there's too many suitors, there's too

555
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: much hesitation. Just do not see it happening. But uh,

556
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: I guess we've been I guess we've been wrong before,

557
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: as the hopeful line.

558
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 4: But we'll see.

559
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be fun to hear what to watch

560
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: the Boris Show in action weekend next week. Always always

561
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: some good metaphors and some lines that make you sort

562
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: of grown or roll your eyes as well.

563
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: Always enter.

564
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've grown to uh enjoy it in the sense.

565
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: Like I look forward to the to rolling my eyes.

566
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: Oh my, oh dear, here we go again. Uh, And

567
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: not like I'm not angry about it.

568
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: It's just like one of like get a good chuckle

569
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: from it, take it all in, you know, for what

570
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: it's worth, and enjoy enjoy the twenty minutes or so

571
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: where we all gather around and listen to the to

572
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: the puns, whatever he comes up.

573
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: All right, Patrick, we'll be back at it from the

574
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: GM meetings. We'll both be there.

575
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: We'll record at least one of these podcasts, probably from

576
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: San Antonio, hopefully after we've talked to Jed and we

577
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: have some sense of what Cody Bellinger is doing and

578
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: that that will obviously be important. Thanks so much for

579
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: listening everyone, This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review,

580
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: and subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to The Athletic,

581
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: where Patrick and I will be on top of all

582
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: things cubs this winter.

583
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to everyone.

584
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 4: Take care,