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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tach, Green Money.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Leslie is a Grammy nominated musician and producer, having

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Speaker 1: produced hits for artists like New Addition and Cassie, which

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Speaker 1: he found in nurtured as an artist, and wrote and

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Speaker 1: produced her hit single Me and You. He's also founder

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Speaker 1: as Superphone, which helps creators and businesses increase engagement, drive revenue,

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Speaker 1: and build better relationships with sms MMS marketing. I've been

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Speaker 1: a fan of Ryan since I heard about his work

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Speaker 1: in the early two thousands, So this is what is

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Speaker 1: the phone for me. We're seeing so many of our

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Speaker 1: great artists selling their catalogs and the rights to their

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Speaker 1: music for sms that are very large and others that

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Speaker 1: are at least we as the public don't feel are

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Speaker 1: large enough. I asked Ryan to explain what's happening in

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Speaker 1: the music business that's brought on this trend of sell

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Speaker 1: off with so many others are preaching ownership.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I would say for me, when you look

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Speaker 2: at money in hands versus money in the future, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot more that can be done with money in it,

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Speaker 2: and that's what's so important. And so when you have

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Speaker 2: the ability to navigate financial markets, navigate investments, decide whether

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Speaker 2: you want to make investments in a number of different categories.

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Speaker 2: The way financial markets work is it takes money to

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Speaker 2: make money, and so to actually decide to say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe I have two hundred million dollars at some point

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Speaker 2: in the future versus the ability to actually put that

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Speaker 2: money to work right now, in my opinion, becomes a

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Speaker 2: no brainer when you have that much future value that

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Speaker 2: can be unlocked immediately.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of artists does it make sense for

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Speaker 1: If you're on the other side, you're a financier and

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Speaker 1: you're seeing, Okay, here's this artist X and they've had

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Speaker 1: some pop hits, They've had some hits that you know,

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Speaker 1: some would argue are not like, you know, classic, but

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Speaker 1: they maybe hits. At what point does it make sense

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Speaker 1: for them to have conversations with artists where you know,

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Speaker 1: though that long term value.

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Speaker 2: Is there right Well, what I would say is this

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Speaker 2: is very, very detailed and data driven. So they just

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Speaker 2: look at the streams. They look at what they would

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Speaker 2: call steady state, meaning hey, no matter how long it's

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Speaker 2: been since this record came out, this is how much

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Speaker 2: money is being generated on a consistent basis, and so

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Speaker 2: they make an extrapolation on the catalog to decide what

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Speaker 2: they believe the future value of that catalog will be.

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Speaker 2: And that's how they that's how they do these deals.

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Speaker 2: These deals are very, very specific. It had nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with the subjective. Do I like the songs? I

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Speaker 2: like the catalog? They literally just look at how many

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Speaker 2: streams are these records making, and how many streams are

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Speaker 2: these records generating, and what is the actual what what

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Speaker 2: will actually be a great return on investment for them

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Speaker 2: in terms of ownership, and then obviously the partnership and

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Speaker 2: when we look at some of the big players that

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Speaker 2: are doing this, the partnerships are able to potentially even

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Speaker 2: rejuvenate the music. Right. So when you have investors who

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Speaker 2: also have their hands in film, television, sports, other arenas

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Speaker 2: of entertainment, then they're able to acquire these catalogs and

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Speaker 2: then give a song of brand new life because now

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Speaker 2: it is the soundbed for a hit series somewhere, right,

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Speaker 2: So they understand what they need to do to actually

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Speaker 2: take this to the next level. And it's you know,

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Speaker 2: when you talk about the accounting and the mathematics that's

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Speaker 2: done in order to come to the valuations of these

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Speaker 2: catalogs is very it's very data driven.

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Speaker 1: At the risk of making this even a little bit

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Speaker 1: more technical, you know, we hear this argument from artists

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Speaker 1: talking about, you know, they may get point zero zeros

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Speaker 1: zero zero five to seven cents on these streams. But

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Speaker 1: then you have these you know, financers who obviously see

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Speaker 1: the math and you know, they believe that they can

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Speaker 1: get their their investment back. What is it that they're

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Speaker 1: taking advantage of that that artist can't take advantage of

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Speaker 1: to be able to make that math math.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're taking advantage of money up front. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: that's you just have to think about this, all right.

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Speaker 2: So if and just for simple math, let's just do it.

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Speaker 2: Let's think about it in terms of simple math, all right.

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Speaker 2: So let's just say you got a penny per stream,

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Speaker 2: all right, instead of breaking it down to the fractional

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Speaker 2: it means a million streams you would get you would

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Speaker 2: get ten thousand dollars, all right. So when you have

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Speaker 2: a record that just you know, goes crazy, right, ten

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Speaker 2: million streams, one hundred thousand, right, a billion streams, right,

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Speaker 2: ten million dollars. Right, So when you really think about this,

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Speaker 2: the ability for these records to actually generate this and

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Speaker 2: if the artist wants to wait until the revenue is

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Speaker 2: paid out, then obviously they can wait the difference though,

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Speaker 2: And you know, this is kind of what I've definitely

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Speaker 2: worked with a number of artists that have come to

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Speaker 2: me that are looking for mentorship in terms of how

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Speaker 2: to get their finances right. Is. Look, when you have

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Speaker 2: the ability to navigate the financial markets in the right way,

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Speaker 2: you can take one hundred k today and turn it

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Speaker 2: into two hundred thousand by June of this year. You know.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we've got folks, I got our artist managers, etc.

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Speaker 2: That I work with. They'll come to me the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the year and say, look, you know, I just

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Speaker 2: got this advance and I'm looking to actually go ahead

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Speaker 2: and make it stretch. You know, I know that the

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Speaker 2: label is going to take care of all of the expenses,

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Speaker 2: but this advance, I need this to stretch. And so

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Speaker 2: really it's about giving people the edge education that has

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Speaker 2: been missing from the our middle school to high school

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Speaker 2: to college education system. How do you navigate financial markets?

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Speaker 2: And this is these are these are concepts that are

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Speaker 2: really you know, very very We talk about middle school

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Speaker 2: math to understand. They have just been sort of shrouded

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Speaker 2: in secrecy up to this point. And so the difference

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Speaker 2: is not that an independent artist or an artist would

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Speaker 2: not be able to realize that, uh those returns. It's

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Speaker 2: just do they actually have the ability to sit around

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Speaker 2: and wait for that to actually be accrued to them.

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Speaker 2: The difference is when someone has money, their money is

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Speaker 2: losing money if it's just sitting there. So when you're

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Speaker 2: an artist and you don't have the money and you're

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Speaker 2: waiting for the money to come to you, well then

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Speaker 2: that's great because at some point that is some some

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Speaker 2: some value that will be accrue to you in the

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Speaker 2: future when you are financia or you actually are even

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Speaker 2: an artist that has money that's just sitting there. When

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Speaker 2: that money is not deployed, then it's actually losing money.

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Speaker 2: And so that's why I went especially over the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years, where we saw the rife that was

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Speaker 2: you know what was we found financial markets that were

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Speaker 2: reeling from over extension due to all the money that

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Speaker 2: had been you know, sort of pumped into the economy.

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Speaker 2: That is when you started to see smart folks looking

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Speaker 2: for alternative places to put the money to work because

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Speaker 2: the usual places where they would put money to work Google, Apple, Amazon,

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Speaker 2: the Nasdaq, the S and P five hundred, those places

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Speaker 2: were over extended, and that money, while it was deployed

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Speaker 2: in those places, those far reaches of the financial markets,

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Speaker 2: was actually moving in the opposite direction that was desired.

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Speaker 2: And so when you can find and alternative ways to

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Speaker 2: put the money to work where those returns are let's say,

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Speaker 2: uncorrelated to the stock market, then that really becomes a

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Speaker 2: prudent investment.

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Speaker 1: You've seen like as many of us have these you know,

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Speaker 1: fake drake AI, you know, recreations of artists and their sound.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder with us, with us giving up these rights,

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Speaker 1: do you foresee any potential regret that may come because

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Speaker 1: we don't know what you know, these things may be valuable,

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Speaker 1: what the value of these things may be. Because AI

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Speaker 1: blockchain the center is happening so fast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to look at it that way is

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Speaker 2: really looking at it from a scarcity mindset. Right. It's

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Speaker 2: almost like when I first got into the music business,

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Speaker 2: there was a record I had that I thought was

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Speaker 2: gonna be my singles called hot Tonight. The single ended

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Speaker 2: up being a single for New Edition and I just

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Speaker 2: knew at that juncture being creative, when you look at

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Speaker 2: just life in general, as a creator, you want to

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Speaker 2: be able to create. And so, yeah, maybe you have

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Speaker 2: the song that got away, maybe you have the you know,

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Speaker 2: the show idea that got away nine time out of ten. Okay,

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Speaker 2: when you decide to put that piece of intellectual property

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Speaker 2: into the hands of a different custodian, the hopefully that

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Speaker 2: custodian has an incentive to actually make that a very

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Speaker 2: increase the value of whatever you have have delivered to them.

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Speaker 2: And so in a case of new edition, in the

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Speaker 2: case of writing and producing me and you for Cassie,

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Speaker 2: for example, instead of thinking of this from a scarcity

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Speaker 2: mindset and saying, oh, you know, if I give this

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Speaker 2: catalog away, you know, you know what did I leave

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Speaker 2: on the table? I am always thinking in terms of

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Speaker 2: my gift is the fact that for what they just bought,

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Speaker 2: I can actually create one hundred two hundred one thousand

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Speaker 2: more and they wouldn't even have to pay me to

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Speaker 2: do it. It's something I want to do anyway. So

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Speaker 2: whether they paid me upfront now to do this or

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Speaker 2: they didn't, I would still be in the studio the

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Speaker 2: next day. Deciding that I wanted to create. And so

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Speaker 2: when we look at our lives from that through that lens,

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Speaker 2: when we look at our lives through that lens, we

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Speaker 2: are able to really, you know, kind of strip away

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Speaker 2: all of those kind of distractions around what really matters.

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Speaker 2: And money really is just currency. It just kind of

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Speaker 2: flows through accounts if it comes to your account. The

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Speaker 2: only difference is and the reason why you want it

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Speaker 2: to flow through your account is because you can exercise

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Speaker 2: control on where it is distributed. And so really, the

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Speaker 2: shrewd musician, the shrewd businessman, the shrewd person in general

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Speaker 2: is looking to understand the science because it really is

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Speaker 2: a science of how to get currency to flow through

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Speaker 2: your accounts, because when it flows through your accounts, you

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Speaker 2: can direct the flow.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about your brand a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I've been following you for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I remember YouTube videos where you would jump off the

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Speaker 1: keys onto the drums, jump off the drums onto the guitar,

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Speaker 1: and it will be these You were a pioneer in

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Speaker 1: that way, you showing that one person could be in

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Speaker 1: the studio doing all these things. I mean, you had

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Speaker 1: artists who could do that, but they didn't have the

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Speaker 1: gift of YouTube to be able to show the world.

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Speaker 1: And what we've learned about brand is that if you

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Speaker 1: can build a successful brand, people will follow you wherever.

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Speaker 1: They'll go, buy your thing, they'll come to your show,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Congrats on your successful crowdfunding raise. What have

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Speaker 1: you learned about storytelling and branding that allows you to

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Speaker 1: deploy your brand in any direction you wish?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think really stories are what connect humans and

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Speaker 2: even just what we're doing right now, we're telling stories

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Speaker 2: and that's why people are going to tune in. And

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Speaker 2: stories are the way that we convey and communicate our

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Speaker 2: value to one another. And so whatever it is that

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Speaker 2: you do, your ability to tell a story, a story

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Speaker 2: of success, a story of challenge, a story of obstacle,

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Speaker 2: a story where people can relate and see themselves in

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Speaker 2: that story. That will give you sort of a universal

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Speaker 2: appeal on a human level. And when you strip away,

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Speaker 2: hey is this music, is this technology? Is this finance?

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Speaker 2: And you get down to the human level and you realize, hey,

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Speaker 2: what is it that people really want? Well, they want

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Speaker 2: to live their best lives. They want to be able

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Speaker 2: to spend time with those that they love. They want

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Speaker 2: to be able to not have to trade their time

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Speaker 2: to be employed in some kind of work that they

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Speaker 2: you know, that they that they wish they could do

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Speaker 2: something else. So when you can help people to improve

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Speaker 2: their lives in that way, whether it's just hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: a record that they can play over and over and

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Speaker 2: over again when they're at the job that they probably

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Speaker 2: wish they were doing something else, or when when they

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Speaker 2: are able to learn how to to finance whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's a new business or a vacation that they

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Speaker 2: might have, or or some medical procedure that will you know,

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Speaker 2: or to hire a trainer or get to the gem,

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Speaker 2: whatever it is to eat better. You start realizing that

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Speaker 2: as you can empower people to live their best life,

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Speaker 2: the brand therefore becomes universal.

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Speaker 1: Aside from Prince, you probably want them at least my

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Speaker 1: earliest memories on people talking about, you know, ownership and

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Speaker 1: taking your own path in the music business, and again

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Speaker 1: back to those early YouTube days. What was obvious to

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Speaker 1: you about because you had labels coming to you saying

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Speaker 1: here here's the contract, and you decided to take your

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Speaker 1: own path, what was obvious to you was obviously not obvious.

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Speaker 1: No point intended to so many other talented me issues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think really, music is one piece and the

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Speaker 2: business is another. And what we understand now, which became

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Speaker 2: very very apparent to me early on, is that those

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Speaker 2: businesses who had a direct relationship with their customers were

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Speaker 2: going to be the businesses that would have exponential success.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? That means that when I am

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Speaker 2: a massing of following on any platform, that platform, because

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Speaker 2: it's free, I am the product, meaning that Instagram is

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Speaker 2: selling me to acquire data and users. Right. And though

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Speaker 2: it may seem that I am a massing of following,

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Speaker 2: when I look at the engagement, when I look at

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Speaker 2: the clickthroughs, when I look at the conversions, I'm saying, wow,

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Speaker 2: I really don't own these people. And it was very

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Speaker 2: very i would say, very very clear when we had

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Speaker 2: built this quarter million person following on MySpace with Cassie

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden that was no longer

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Speaker 2: the platform DuJour, and so once everyone migrated away, we realized,

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Speaker 2: oh man, we got to go do this all over again,

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Speaker 2: and what a what a shame and a waste of time,

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Speaker 2: energy and resources to go and do it all over again.

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Speaker 2: So really, for me, it's always just been about understanding

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Speaker 2: that the companies in which I invested when I got

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Speaker 2: my advanced checks, the Amazon, the Google, the Apple, the Facebook,

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Speaker 2: now Meta, those companies were really very clearly paving the

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Speaker 2: way for businesses that had a direct relationship with their

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Speaker 2: customers and not just the ability to contact them, but

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Speaker 2: the ability to build a profile, to personalize the products

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Speaker 2: and services that were offered. Those were the business that

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Speaker 2: would be able to thrive, and in their ingenuity and

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Speaker 2: their ability to create an infrastructure to do this for themselves,

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Speaker 2: they were able to build platforms on which other businesses

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Speaker 2: could also be built. The number of people who have

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Speaker 2: built multimillion dollar businesses on Amazon's platform, the number of

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Speaker 2: people who utilize Facebook's advertising network to build multimillion dollar

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Speaker 2: or multimillion dollar businesses, the number of folks who rely

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Speaker 2: on Google's cloud services, the same cloud services that they

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Speaker 2: use to deliver their products and services to their users.

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Speaker 2: You find that the ability to have that kind of

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Speaker 2: close relationship with those who support you allows you to

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Speaker 2: refine your products and services so that you can even

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Speaker 2: price them in a premium fashion, and so that also

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Speaker 2: reduces the number of people, the number of customers, the

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Speaker 2: number of supporters that you need to hit a threshold

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Speaker 2: financially to live and thrive in business. The way that

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Speaker 2: you were, that you that you aspire and in the

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Speaker 2: way that you aspire.

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Speaker 1: So I became aware of you in early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: late ninety late nineteen nineties, I was writing for Brian

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Speaker 1: Michael Cox. I was a songwriter and him and a

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Speaker 1: guy named a Donna Shropshire, you might know a Donna's

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Speaker 1: we're having a conversation about you. And we were at

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Speaker 1: Doppler in Atlanta. Oh, we had stink Onnia in Atlanta, actually,

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Speaker 1: and the reason your name came up was because they

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Speaker 1: were talking about ownership and studios like you were. You

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Speaker 1: were the only guy back then when everybody else was

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Speaker 1: written our studio time, you were building your own and

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Speaker 1: buying your own equipment, your own keyboards and your own

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Speaker 1: drums and stuff. And that's how I became aware of

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Speaker 1: Ryan Leslie or Less. And we have these conversations about, well,

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Speaker 1: if we got you know, the Lebron James of the

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Speaker 1: world to go to Africa and build the NBA there,

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Speaker 1: like they could own it and they don't have to

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Speaker 1: be tied to this organization. And if the jay Z's

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Speaker 1: of the world built over wherever else they could start

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Speaker 1: their own. Why do those things not connect to reality

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Speaker 1: in the way that we don't have the people who

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Speaker 1: have this amount of wealth and power decide to secede

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Speaker 1: away from institutional organizations and build their own in different ways.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have ice Q doing it like with

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Speaker 1: the Big Three, but you don't have It's not like

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Speaker 1: a proliferation of people taking it away from the institution

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Speaker 1: and doing it on their own like you did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I would say that first and foremost, though,

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Speaker 2: there is an infrastructure in a history with those institutions

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Speaker 2: that allows them to continue to grow, acquire, consolidate to

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Speaker 2: the point where like the government has to get involved

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Speaker 2: and say, hey, antitrust. Right, So that's number one. Number two,

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Speaker 2: we also need to think about the fact that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we are probably just one generation away from having the

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Speaker 2: kind of wealth that we control as a people. To

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Speaker 2: do that, when we think of the institutions, those institutions

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Speaker 2: were built on our backs, and to build on the

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Speaker 2: backs of those to amass that kind of wealth and influence,

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Speaker 2: you had to actually you had to do that in

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Speaker 2: such a way that completely separated them from the math

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Speaker 2: and mechanics around how to actually generate that kind of wealth.

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Speaker 2: And so we are starting to see this now. But

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Speaker 2: how many players in the NBA did it take? How

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Speaker 2: many success stories and failures did it take for us

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Speaker 2: to have a billionaire athlete in a short amount of

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Speaker 2: time as it took for Lebron to get there. How

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Speaker 2: many artists did it take, mega, massive, ultra multi extra

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Speaker 2: platinum artists did it take to have the ability for

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Speaker 2: a jay Z to then shorten the time for Rihanna

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Speaker 2: to get to that billionaire status. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, when we think about this, we need many, many,

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Speaker 2: many many of those folks, and then we also need

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Speaker 2: sort of care, concern, consideration, and collaboration to actually happen

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Speaker 2: amongst them. And what we've seen so often, especially in

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Speaker 2: our community, is that besides, almost in contrast to care, consideration, concern,

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Speaker 2: and collaboration, we have competition, right, And so when we

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Speaker 2: have that, it starts to sort of pit us against

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Speaker 2: one another as opposed to having the kind of fabric

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Speaker 2: that can actually collectively when the money's pooled, when the

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Speaker 2: influence is pooled, to actually build the way that we

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Speaker 2: want to build, and so I think we're probably just

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Speaker 2: one generation away.

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Speaker 1: One of the business lessons I learned later than I

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Speaker 1: wish I would have, but I did learn it was

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Speaker 1: about reinvesting the profits.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, because you.

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Speaker 1: You know, put in nine hundred, you got a thousand,

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Speaker 1: don't go spend that hundred. Put the one hundred in

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Speaker 1: to grow.

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Speaker 2: You know the.

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Speaker 1: Origination. So obviously you learned that lesson and you were one,

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Speaker 1: you were the one buying your own equipment in et cetera.

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Speaker 1: How did you learn that lesson? And how do you

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Speaker 1: communicate it to other entrepreneurs or creatives who would be

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurs to take the revenue that they generate put it

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Speaker 1: back in. Because I heard you say before and the

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Speaker 1: end of the interview which we were talking about you

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Speaker 1: were completely fan funded in so many ways.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I would say that that reinvestment is

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Speaker 2: on so many different levels. It's not just finances, it's time, energy,

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Speaker 2: and resources. And those resources are not just finances, it's

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Speaker 2: time and energy as well. So what I would say

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Speaker 2: is Number one, I had great mentor. I had a

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Speaker 2: great mentor and other great mentors, and I showed up

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Speaker 2: the way I needed to when I had the ability

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Speaker 2: to actually learn, and I invested in relationship with those

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Speaker 2: mentors because I wanted to. Just as we saw Rihanna's

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Speaker 2: ability pathway to one billion dollars was roughly half, if

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Speaker 2: not shorter than Jay Z's pathway to a billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: And that really is a direct correlation to the kind

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Speaker 2: of mentorship, but also the ability for the mentee to

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Speaker 2: show up and be coachable. And so as I you know,

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Speaker 2: it kind of touched on the beginning of this interview,

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Speaker 2: I personally because I am only where I am today

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Speaker 2: because a great mentor took an interest in actually, you know,

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Speaker 2: investing time with me. Obviously I compensated that mentor, but

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Speaker 2: took an interest and gave me a shot. I have

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Speaker 2: made a commitment that any and I'm talking about any artist, manager, attorney,

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Speaker 2: software engineer, mail carrier, doordas driver, anyone who has an

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Speaker 2: interest in understanding the mindset, the mentality, the math and

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Speaker 2: the mechanics when it comes to money in the markets,

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Speaker 2: as long as they can come to me with the

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Speaker 2: spirit of a student and a respect for my time

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Speaker 2: and the energy and the expertise that I will share

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Speaker 2: with them, I make it a point to actually take

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Speaker 2: them under my wing one on one, and I have

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Speaker 2: literally a program that has been running to help folks.

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Speaker 2: You know, whatever they're starting with, let's get you to

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Speaker 2: a pathway to not just six figures, not seven, you know,

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Speaker 2: let's get you to eight or nine figures. And the

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Speaker 2: beauty of compounding is that when you have the patience,

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Speaker 2: you can actually get there. And I've literally shown folks

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Speaker 2: how to start with a if your investments only. I

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Speaker 2: was literally talking to one of my mentees today, I said, look,

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Speaker 2: if your investments grow by thirty eight dollars this year,

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Speaker 2: I can show you a pathway that you'll leave ninety

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Speaker 2: million dollars to your family when you pass on. Now,

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Speaker 2: that obviously means that he's starting at age thirty three

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Speaker 2: and he's looking to leave whatever he's leaving at ninety

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Speaker 2: five or one hundred, but all of those years, with

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Speaker 2: the right kinds of decisions, the right kinds of techniques

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Speaker 2: and strategies, you can do what so many others have done.

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Speaker 2: And you know, and then maybe they don't. They're not

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Speaker 2: the same shade that we are, right, but so many

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Speaker 2: others have done because they learned it early, and it's

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Speaker 2: never too late. You know, they say the best time

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Speaker 2: to start investing was twenty years ago. The next best

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Speaker 2: time is right now. And so for those where they're

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Speaker 2: right now is right now. That's the way in which

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Speaker 2: I lend myself and make myself available to anyone that

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Speaker 2: wants to learn. And so it's very easy to get

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Speaker 2: in touch with me. You go to your browser, you

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Speaker 2: type in text Ryan dot com is going to ask

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Speaker 2: you for your phone number. And I have built a system.

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Speaker 2: I've built a technology that allows me to actually find

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Speaker 2: the people that are really serious about making that kind

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Speaker 2: of difference. And so it's been super rewarding. And so also,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was just looking at a documentary around

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Speaker 2: Warren Buffett and he said, look, you know, at one

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Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars, you know a guy that's worth one

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Speaker 2: hundred billion, He said, look at one percent of that,

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Speaker 2: it still will be so much more than I would

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Speaker 2: ever need to live. And I'm at a place now

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Speaker 2: in my life and career that one percent of what

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Speaker 2: I've been able to mass and earn will allow me

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Speaker 2: to be very very comfortable for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: So the rest of it I want to actually and

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Speaker 2: in terms of time as well the rest of it.

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Speaker 2: I want to be able to pour into folks that

435
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: actually want to reduce the time that it takes for

436
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: them to realize some of that same success. So that's

437
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 2: the way that I that I pay it forward.

438
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: I've been a fan of yours obviously follows your story,

439
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, about twenty years now, and one thing I'm

440
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: have been I've always always thought it was remarkable is

441
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: how you built an international presence. And I wonder, because

442
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: you were talking about going to Switzerland and Belgium before

443
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: I saw our stars, you know, on stage in these countries.

444
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: How did you grow that or was it something about

445
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: the music that just spoke to that those audiences over there.

446
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: I believe it was really a combination. And also I

447
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: believe that, you know, very early on, I was using

448
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: technology to identify and pinpoint where the audiences were, and

449
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: so when I realized that my listeners were in a

450
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: specific locale, I wanted to make sure that I was

451
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: providing even higher level of service by saying, hey, I

452
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: see that there is an appreciation and enjoyment of the music,

453
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: let's step it up to the live experience. And then

454
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: I would go and do sort of that research there

455
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: and say, okay, what is it that you love when

456
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: an artist comes from another country to come and perform. Well,

457
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: they said, well, we don't know exactly what we love. Also,

458
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: we love the muse us, but we can tell you

459
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: what we don't love. I said, okay, well tell me

460
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: and they said, well, you know they'll come on, they'll

461
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: just you know, have a track playing, and then you

462
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: know they'll do thirty minutes and act like you know,

463
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: it was such a pleasure and privilege for them to

464
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: come over and me on stage, and I said, okay,

465
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do you one better. We ain't gonna just

466
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: do the track with the DJ if I have to

467
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: pay for it, I'll bring the band out and we're

468
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: going to do two and a half hour sessions. Why

469
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: because it's music. Music is so beautiful that you know,

470
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: you can the record might only be three minutes, but

471
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: when you do it on stage, you could do it

472
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 2: for ten minutes and people love it and they're rocking

473
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: with you, and so you know, I really just look to,

474
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: in any area of my life, deliver the highest level

475
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: of service. So if as a music producer, look what

476
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: is it that folks need? If folks need x number

477
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: of tracks per day they need too, I try to

478
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: give them nine. If people say, well, you know what,

479
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: it's not enough to just do the tracks, I need

480
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: the top line too, where we'll record a top line

481
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 2: four year as well. Well, you know, somebody will come

482
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: to you and say, well, you know, I also want

483
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: to think about a rollout strategy as well. We helped

484
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: to devise that four you as well. And then when

485
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: it came down to being of service to my fans,

486
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: my community, the ability for them to come have a

487
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: great experience, have it curated for them, have them be

488
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: able to you know, write in the set list and

489
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: choose all of those kinds of different elements of the show.

490
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: I think really all of that lent itself to the

491
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: relationship that I have to this day, where you know,

492
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: my last record per se may have been years ago,

493
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: and we'll still fly across on July to eighth, and

494
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: we'll fill out a three thousand person venue in Cologne, Germany,

495
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: of all places. So I believe that, you know, technology

496
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: nowadays gives you the ability to actually pinpoint the audience,

497
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: the supporters, where the listeners are coming from, where the

498
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: supporters coming from, and then it's up to the entrepreneur

499
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: or the business mind of your operation to actually know

500
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: what to do with that data. And you know, I

501
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: think we're talking obviously about it all being self contained,

502
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: and yes, that's great. The other piece of this puzzle

503
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: is it's also important to just understand when your special

504
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: gift is the creativity and someone else's special gift may

505
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: be the business acumen. And when those two minds, those

506
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: two worlds combined, you really have a scenario where one

507
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: plus one may equally leave it.

508
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I told you I want to talk about

509
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: superphone just for one second. Many companies have recognized that

510
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: email just doesn't do what it used to do. They're

511
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: trying to get the phone numbers. Now, how does this work?

512
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: How do superphone particularly work to work? I may not know.

513
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: I can't put a call to action in every message,

514
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, I may need to, you know, just actually

515
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: provide value. And it's easier to do. And so in

516
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: the top of mind via email maybe a little harder

517
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: or maybe not. I'm gonna let you say that.

518
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: In SMS, Yeah, I really look at SMS as a

519
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: more inbound versus outbound. You know, I find it a

520
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: number of folks to say, oh, yeah, I want to

521
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: build a big list, and then I want to you know, broadcast.

522
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: I think email lends itself to that kind of exchange.

523
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: I believe that the communication channel of SMS is personal,

524
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: it's intimate, it's the most important real estate in everyone's phone,

525
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: and it works extremely well on the inbound side. So

526
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: if I say, and really this is how I launched Superphone.

527
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: I said, look, if you want my album, send me

528
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: a text. So that means the intent has already been captured.

529
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: From the time they send a text, I already know

530
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: where this is leading they're looking for the album. So

531
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: at that point I can say, okay, great, I want

532
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: to provide you the highest level of service. What's you're at,

533
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: what's your email address? And where can I ship it?

534
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: If I'm going to give you something, if I'm going

535
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: to deliver you something that's physical, and so in that exchange,

536
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: the intent has already been captured and the ability to

537
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: actually have that communication. And also the beauty of a

538
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: phone is that it can vary very quickly sort of

539
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: upgrade to an actual real conversation. The beauty of thinking

540
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: about intimacy when you're thinking about your supporters, friends, family,

541
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: followers whoever. It may be. The beauty of thinking about

542
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: intimacy and a pyramid is that when you start with

543
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: social media you can think about the expected response time

544
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: or expected response rate. So when you post something on

545
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: social media, people are I guess the response is optional? Right.

546
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: Then when you get to email and it's a broadcast,

547
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: once again response optional. And even in personal relationship, you

548
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: might spend an email and it's very easy to be

549
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: oh I and get that or within the spam e s.

550
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: Once you move up to text, the text is a

551
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: much more intimate and much more important real estate in

552
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: someone's mobile device. And then the beauty of text is

553
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: that it can actually upgrade to that in person real

554
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: time conversation. So if you send someone an email and

555
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: they don't respond for a couple of days, you might

556
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: actually say, ah, it's all right. You send someone a text,

557
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: they don't respond for a couple of hours, you start

558
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: getting worried. You on the phone, and it's a live conversation.

559
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: Someone doesn't respond within moments, you might have to say, hey,

560
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: you all right? Right, So you see that there's sort

561
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: of a pyramid in terms of expected response time. And

562
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: so with superphone we really want to unlock that SMSs

563
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: to voice because of how powerful that communication channel actually is.

564
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: I was reading an interview and you talked about this

565
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: is a quote from you. I'm fan funded. The people

566
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: that come to my concerts and pay double and triple

567
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: the prices of an album to watch the music being

568
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: performed live is the way that future albums, videos, and

569
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: tours are going to be funded. Talk about what you

570
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: see when you recognize startups and projects taking on a

571
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: lot of investment without that product market fit. You know,

572
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of companies burn out because they

573
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: took a bunch of money and didn't have the revenue

574
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: coming in. But just valuations are magical numbers, but they

575
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: thereby they give up so much because they don't have

576
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: the leverage.

577
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that every sort of business,

578
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: and I believe that every sort of business has a

579
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: has a unique path. And in the same way that

580
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: so many businesses have been successful, the ability to just

581
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: apply a template and say this is going to work

582
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: for someone else, I believe sort of undermines the unique

583
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: value proposition in each product or service that a business innovates.

584
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: And so I believe that it's just important to be

585
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: almost machine level in your ability to analyze the data

586
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: and allow the data to tell the story and drive

587
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: your decision making and business. And so you know, in

588
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: some cases, growth may be more important than revenue because

589
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: to a mass a large audience is when you can

590
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: then monetize the audience with advertising, et cetera. So I

591
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: believe that every business, every artist, every entrepreneur, really it

592
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: really makes sense to find an expert, find someone with

593
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 2: some great experience, whether that may be a mentor a coach,

594
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: or even whoever comes in as an investor. They need

595
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: to be truly invested in not just a return from

596
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: whatever the business may may may yield, but also they

597
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: must be committed to the growth not only of just

598
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: the business, but the humans that run the business. You know,

599
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: we can name off name brands across the board, and

600
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: it is those name brands that have leaders business minds

601
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: that we relate to on a human level that we

602
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: sometimes may remember more. And so in my businesses in

603
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: you know, some of the great businesses that I've invested in,

604
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: these CEOs and founders have become synonymous with their businesses.

605
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: And Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, you know, uh and Elon

606
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: musk right a jay Z all right with rock Nation

607
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: and many of the other businesses. So at the end

608
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 2: of the day, I believe that when we realize that,

609
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: you know, product market fit and just looking at data

610
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 2: in and of itself can help to drive our decisions

611
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. And I think the

612
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 2: the theme of this interview even is just that we

613
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: are looking to derive and provide value. That is what

614
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: gives us purpose as humans. And so when we understand

615
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: how to quantify that in a real way, we can

616
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 2: really find we could really find some extraordinary success.

617
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: All right, Less, It's an honor for me to talk

618
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: to you, man, if I'll even twenty five years, so

619
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: this is a.

620
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: Pleasure, Yes, sir, Yes, sir Man. Well look text Ryan

621
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: dot com man, drop the number man. And literally I

622
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: say this all the time. I say it on every podcast.

623
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in building real relationships, and you know,

624
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: folks have to show up for those relationships. So for

625
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: folks that I had people that sent me text messages before,

626
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: and we've gone on to you know, co investing businesses together,

627
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: we've gone on to you know, take trips together. We've

628
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: gone on to you know, build businesses together, and so

629
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 2: I'm very very committed to that being My driving purpose

630
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: in life is to be a living example of everything

631
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: I talk about, and really that's about connecting on a

632
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:45,479
Speaker 2: human level.

633
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is the production of Blavity Afro

634
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in night Heart Media,

635
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,

636
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sayah Ergan.

637
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: And Rose McLucas.

638
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Surrundo, and Maya Moldrew.

639
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other tech This rupt

640
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: is an innovators at afrotech dot com. Join Black Tech

641
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,959
Speaker 1: Green Money, Share this with somebody, Go get your money

642
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: piece and love