1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're on vacation, but that doesn't mean 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: we don't have an amazing show for you today. For instance, 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: historian and CNN political analyst Julian Zella's her stops by 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: to tell us about some recent history lessons for our 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: present day. But first we have the CEO of Test 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Ventures and author of The Fixer My Adventures Saving Startups 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: from Death by Politics, Bradley Tusk. Bradley Tusk, Welcome to 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: Fast Politics you have. 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: I'm Miley Tanks forrat Me. 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you because we're friends, 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: and also because you're not like a public facing person. 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: I think of you as like a person who is 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: very involved in the wills of government in a really 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: interesting way, and that a lot of times some of 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: the stuff that you've cooked up our listeners like probably 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: have not heard about, but is really interesting and in 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: some cases it's super effective. 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for me. Look, I just try to 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: get shit done, and sometimes that's public and people like it. 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's public and people don't like it. Sometimes no 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: one notices, you know, whatever it is. You know, I've 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: learned that I feel better about myself when stuff's getting done, 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: so I just try to focus on that. 26 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: So you learn a novel. Tell us a little bit 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 1: about the novel. 28 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: It's about a campaign to legalize flying cars in New York, 29 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: LA and Austin. And on one side is the flying 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: car startup and they're vicious political consultants. And the other 31 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: side is Uber, the Autobot Society, the transi Unions, the Socialists, 32 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 2: and the Russian Bob. And it's satire. But I spent 33 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: the first fifteen years of my career working in government 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: and politics and then transition to tech by running all 35 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: the campaigns to legalize Uber and ride sharing around the US, 36 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: and then eventually using that to launch a venture capital fund. 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: And so I've kind of seen this from lots of 38 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: different anger at this point and thought it would be 39 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: a fun book to write to kind of give readers 40 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: a sense of here's why people in politics really make 41 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: the decisions they make, here's why people and tactic the 42 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: decisions they make, and venture capital in media and so on. 43 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: And by making about flying cars and making it slightly crazy, 44 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: it's hopefully a fun rate as well. 45 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: Some of these things, or some elements of it are 46 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: things you actually experienced when you were bringing Ubert to 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: New York, right, Yeah. 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: There are things I experienced are was bringing Obert to 49 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: New York or Denver, Miami or la or anywhere else. 50 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: But there are also things that I experienced just throughout 51 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: my career. Right. So, between being the deputy governor of 52 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: Illinois and working in New York City politics, I've testified 53 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: in five corruption trials or grand jury. So the part 54 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: in the book about the FBI and public corrupt investigations, 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 2: thank god, I've only ever been a witness, but I 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: do enough to be able to write about it. And so, yeah, 57 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: I've seen this from lots of different angles. And the 58 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: book is satire and it's fiction, but it's sort of 59 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: bare satire and barely fiction. 60 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that That's the story of my life right there, 61 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: barely satire and barely fiction. So talk to me about 62 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: your work with free school lunches, because this is something 63 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: I feel really committed to. It's something it's an easy solve. 64 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: We are a very rich country. We do not need 65 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: children to go hunger. 66 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: No, it's insane that we allow for this. So I'd 67 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: always been interested in hunger stuff and I've been volunteering 68 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: and weekly into kitchens since I was a freshman in 69 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: college and still do it every week now. But until 70 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: I got out of government of politics, I didn't have 71 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: any money, and so I finally first started my first 72 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: company and started making money. I started writing checks to 73 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: the New York Food Bank. And you know how it 74 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: is the bigger of a check you write, the more 75 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: they bring you in under the tent because they want 76 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: you to write even bigger texts. And that I know 77 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: this when that was happening, is these are lovely people 78 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: and they're terrible. 79 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: Politics because they're not killers. 80 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: No, they're nice people. Yeah, they want to people. As 81 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: a result, I was like, they're just not good at 82 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: this stuff. And so my question was, well, what are 83 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: people who really understood politics ran bills that would mandate 84 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: universal school breakfast or lunch, or expand this snap for 85 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: seniors or whatever hunger program you want to talk about. 86 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: And what if you had the real the tools that 87 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: any good campaign hads lobbying, PR polling, ads, grassroots And 88 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: so I started doing it, created Solving a hunger out 89 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: of my foundation and we funded run campaigns in different 90 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: states to mandate different anti hunger programs. And basically we're 91 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: really just dealing the blocking and tackling of what you know, 92 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: McDonald's or Walmart or any company funding a legislative campaign 93 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 2: would do. We just do it instead on behalf of 94 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: kids who need food and got pretty well. So we've 95 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: passed twenty four bills in twenty states. About thirteen million 96 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: more people now have access to food on a regular 97 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 2: basis didn't have it before. About six million dollars of 98 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: my money has helped unlock about two billion in new 99 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: state funding for hunger programs around the country. And the 100 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: other thing that I think maybe we're doing that makes 101 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: me not so popular. 102 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: Yes, tell us, please tell us, sister, I love this 103 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: so much I die. 104 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. It is sort of the willingness not just to say, Okay, 105 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: you need political assistication to run these campaigns, you need 106 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: money to run these campaigns. Fine. The other thing is 107 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: you need to be willing to be negative. Right. The 108 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: reality is, politicians, in my view, do things in one 109 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: of two cases. Either they think that you can help 110 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: them win their next election, or they think that you 111 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: could cost them their next election. And if they don't 112 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: think that you can be relevant to either one, you 113 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: just don't matter. And then just the constant something is 114 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: a good cause, Like if that were enough, we wouldn't 115 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: have childhood humber, we wouldn't have school shootings, we wouldn't 116 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: have you know, an environment that's fallowing apart, right, you know, 117 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: the right thing is ever enough to acce again anything done. 118 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: And so last year in New York, which is one 119 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: of the states, we were working on the way the 120 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: New York budget works is the governor submits her budget, 121 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: the legislature submits their budget, and they kind of negotiate it. 122 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: But the legislature's budget because you know, they don't actually 123 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: run anything. It's like maximally act of balance because they 124 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: just say yes to everybody, right, all right, And so 125 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: we got our money in there for school meals, great, 126 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: but sutted everyone else for anything they wanted. And we 127 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: knew we weren't ultimately a priority once they had to 128 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: start making cuts. And the strategy from the New York 129 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 2: Hunger Coalition was, well, let's just keep our heads down 130 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 2: and hopefully no one will not this, right, as if 131 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: they're not going to notice two hundred and eighty million 132 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: dollars fitting in the budget. As I'm kind of doing 133 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: more and more diligence and talking and more people inside 134 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: the room, like this is not going to work, right, 135 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 2: And what he told is, you know what it will. 136 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: It will be too eighty, but it'll be thirty, it'll 137 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: be forty. We have thirty or forty million more than 138 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: you had before, so just be happy with it and 139 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: shut your mouth. And I decided, you know what, the 140 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: reason why we can't do better than that is because 141 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: we have no political swaye right. Kids who get school 142 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: meals don't vote, Their parents typically don't vote. 143 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: There's no big oil lobbying firm doing kids lunches. 144 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: Right, you don't get anything for it politically. But maybe 145 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: we could create a stick. And so we hired these 146 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: mobile billboard trucks and poked them outside the capitol in 147 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: Albany for three weeks, say things like. 148 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Ad I mean I love it so much? 149 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: Gone, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, you know, speaker Hasty, why 150 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: are you letting children starve? Governor Oko? Why are you 151 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 2: letting children start and just beaten the living shit out 152 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: of them? And we just wouldn't move them, and the 153 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: hunger Coalition went crazy. They threw us out, they banned 154 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: us from using their hashtag You're going to lose all 155 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: the money. And then eventually the people were in the 156 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: room got tired of seeing these trucks and they called 157 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: someone of my staff and said, what's it going to take. 158 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: And my staff said to give him his money, and 159 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: we got one hundred and thirty four million dollars, and 160 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: starting back in September, two hundred and ninety thousand kids 161 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: every single day in the state of New York have 162 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: breakfast and lunch free you of charge, who didn't have 163 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: it last year, and so I'm probably never allowed back 164 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: at like the Christmas party. I didn't get a lot 165 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: of holiday cards from Hunger Coalition this year, but a 166 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: lot of kids got food. So look, that's how we 167 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: do it. Our twenty twenty four states which we already 168 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: launched our Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Arkansas. And 169 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: my hope is is that we can just keep taking 170 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: off states, you know, a couple every single year, and 171 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: then maybe at some point the federal government gets their 172 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: shit together and actually funds this thing. At fall that 173 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: is so great. 174 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I mean obviously don't quote me, 175 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: because I don't want anyone to be mad at me. 176 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: But you also did some really aggressive stuff in Connecticut. 177 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: Right, same thing, except to make maybe a little worse 178 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: because just physically, the way that the capital works in 179 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Hartford didn't lend itself to the trucks like being seen 180 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: and effective. We picked the speaker or the center president 181 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: and the governor and sent those trucks all around their districts. 182 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: So Ned Lamont, who's the governor of Connecticut, lives in Greenwich. 183 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: So all through Greenwich for weeks, is this truck accusing him? 184 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: Let me get starve and guess what we got? Universals, 185 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: school breakfast. Yeah. 186 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: But that's how you do all right, how you do it? 187 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: Are there other things you can get that way? 188 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I think fundamentally, if you accept the 189 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: fact that every policy output is the result of a 190 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: political import and if you accept the fact that every 191 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: politician makes every decision solely based on reelection and nothing else, 192 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: and you recognize that because of the jerrymannary system, we 193 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: have only primary turnout really ever matters. That's like ten 194 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: to fifteen percent, And so you know, ten to fifteen 195 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: percent on either side or beectillents. Like you said, Big 196 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: Oil have just disproportionate influence, which is why it's so 197 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: hard to get anything done. So the other thing that 198 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: I'm doing out of my foundation is trying to fix 199 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: the underlying problem itself by making mobile voting possible. So 200 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: you know, when we ran all the campaigns to legalizing 201 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: ber and I did this again with fan duel at 202 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: Ease and Bird and a bunch of other of our 203 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: portfolio companies. We mobilized millions of our customers through the 204 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: app to tell their politicians leave this thing alone. I 205 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: like fantasy sports, betting on demand. We delivery electric scooters, rideshit, 206 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: whatever it is, don't take it away from me. And 207 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: it worked right because we change underlying input. Also, the 208 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: politician was like, I don't need this headache, right, like 209 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: forget I just leave it alone. And so the question 210 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: I started asking is what if people could vote like this? 211 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: And then as blockchain and cloud technology both got better, 212 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: went from sort of a theoretical wouldn't it be cool too, 213 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: Let's try it out. So we paid for and by 214 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: the way, the reason that I have the money to 215 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: do all this stuff is that when I worked for 216 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 2: I took my fee in equity, and that a lot 217 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: of money, and so that's how I get to do 218 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: things like mobile voting and hunger. We paid for seven 219 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: states to conduct elections twenty one jurisdictions were either deployed 220 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: military or people with disabilities were able to vote in 221 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: real elections on their phones. They all came back clean, 222 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 2: they were audited, turned on average doubled. But I got 223 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: a ton of shit from the cybersecurity community and from 224 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: groups like Citizen Access and Verified Voting, who believe that 225 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: only paper ballots should be used, which to me is 226 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: insane because paper ballots is what got used George W. 227 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: Bush in the Iraq War, right, So I can't even 228 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: wrapped my head around that concept because it seems like 229 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: it's been pretty disproven. So I said, fuck it, I'm 230 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: going to build my own mobile voting tech. So three 231 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: years and ten million dollars later, we are going to 232 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 2: launch it in Q one and it will be free 233 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: and open source for anyone to download, work on, build 234 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 2: on use, and then the really hard work begins after that, 235 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: which is we've got to build a movement to force 236 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: politicians to allow mobile voting, because if you know how 237 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: to win elections in low turnout primaries. Whether you're a 238 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: Republican or Democrat, or a lobbyist or a union or 239 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: a chamber of commerce or whatever it is, you don't 240 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: want to risk the power that you have, so you're 241 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: likely to oppose this. And I'm going to need gen 242 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: Z and Jen Alpha. You know, all our kids, Your 243 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: kids and my kids are similar ages to just rise 244 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: up and say like bullshit, we know that it's safe, 245 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: and you only don't want us to do this because 246 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: you don't want us to have any power. So we'll 247 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: work with people like David Hogg from the Parkland Movement 248 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: and Aiden Colin Murphy who runs gen Z for Change 249 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: and other groups, so hopefully build a movement around this 250 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: and past legislation in every state that lets people vote 251 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: on their phones. 252 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting. So you've been really involved in 253 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: city government. It is very annoying to me to live 254 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: in a blue city in a blue state and have 255 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: a governor and mayor who do not reflect my values, 256 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: and also a mayor who is going to be indicted. 257 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean, right, what what's happening? 258 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: So yeah, so just to give the listen some context, 259 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 2: I ran Mike Bloomberg's one of his mayoral campaigns. Worked 260 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: for him at Stick Hall and also worked for Edwin 261 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: Dallas City Hall in Philadelphia. I worked at the New 262 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: York City Parks Department, so I know city government reasonably well. 263 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: And the consulting firm that I own ran Andrew Yanks 264 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: campaign for mayor in twenty twenty one. He lost, obviously, 265 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: but I think I understand the dynamics reasonably well. Look, 266 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: we have a mayor and Eric Adams, where there's a 267 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: couple of different problems. The first problem is simply he 268 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: doesn't attract or recognize talent. You know, he has this 269 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: view that he needs to be loyal to the people 270 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: with him on day one when he was a borough 271 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 2: president or a state senator. And that's, I guess, admirable 272 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: in a very conceptual way, but not whether or not 273 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: the best people to run the parts department, the transportation department, 274 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 2: the building department, whatever it is. And so the thing 275 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: that made Mike, in my view, a very effective mayor 276 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: it isn't that he thought of any one particular idea 277 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: that he just said, look, I'm going to hire the 278 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: most talent to be buggy yet and I don't give 279 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 2: a shit about politics, and I don't care about patronage. 280 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to make them hire the same way, and 281 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: then we're going to let them do their jobs completely 282 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: independent of politics. And so as a result, thousands of 283 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: people like you and me showed up either at city 284 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: all or at the agency's and got a lot of 285 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: stuff done right. And to me, that's the secret to 286 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: city government. And Eric Adams is the exact opposite, which 287 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: he has only hired cronies and donors and political hacks. 288 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: You know, former city council members run half the city agencies. 289 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 2: They have no idea how to run anything, and you 290 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: put that all together, it's one we have very ineffective government. 291 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: And I think to me the most obvious example is 292 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: State of New York has managed to issue twenty seven 293 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: licenses for legal week shops and there are as many 294 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: as five thousand illegal weed shops but proliferating throughout the 295 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: city and state, and there's zero ability to do anything 296 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: about It. Makes no sense to me if if Mike 297 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: we're still mayor, who would have padlocked every single one 298 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: of them and said, look, next time someone comes back 299 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: in one of these, you're going to writers and that 300 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: could be a customer and employee, whatever it is, and 301 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: that would have put a stop to it. And I 302 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: don't understand if it's corruption or confidence or what, but 303 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: they refuse to do it, anything about it. And so 304 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 2: you've got a mayor who, on one hand doesn't seem 305 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: to have the talent around him to execute a replement anything. 306 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: And then the other problem is corruption itself. His phones 307 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: have been seized by the FBI, his fundraisers home was 308 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: raided by the FBI. He has been telling the people 309 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 2: that he's going to be indicted soon. You and I, 310 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: because we're in around this world. I've been hearing the 311 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: rumor swirling for the last week or so that he's 312 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: about to get indicted. And so, but I think he's 313 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: going to follow the path of Donald Trump and Bob Mendez, 314 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: which is he's going to say, you know what, I'm 315 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: not resigning, I'm not going anywhere. And yes, Katy Oaklood 316 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: governor could remove him, but I doubt she'll do so 317 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: because she's not gonna water risk pishing off black voters. 318 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: And so as a result, we're going to have a 319 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: mayor under federal indictment and then on trial for federal 320 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 2: corruption while trying to run the city of New York 321 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: at the same time. And that's a disaster. 322 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that seems bad. I Mean what I'm surprised 323 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: by is just what a bad job he's done running 324 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: the city. 325 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: I mean the legal weed. 326 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: Stores is a really good example, but other smaller things 327 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: that you know, like they're cutting library hours, right, I 328 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: mean that public libraries are not going to be open 329 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: on the weekends. I mean, there's no world in which 330 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: the amount of money to keep libraries open on the 331 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: weekends is not a rounding error in this city budget. 332 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: Sure, although I guess people can come to my bookstore 333 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: and read books and put the backup shelves if they 334 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 2: have to. That's correct. Maybe I'm the secret winner in 335 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 2: this thing. Yeah. And what the other thing is, Look, 336 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: the migrant crisis is not his fault, right, He certainly 337 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: doesn't control border policy and Texas, Sir Arizona or wherever. 338 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: But the mismanagement of the funds that is housing the 339 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: migrants is his fault. 340 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: It is. And the second thing would be he's already 341 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: accused Biden of targeting him, that all of these corruption 342 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: investigations are just a political ven Data by by once 343 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: you cross into that level of crazy, you might as 344 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: well then leverage what you have to try to get 345 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: more money out of them to deal with the migrant crisis. Right, So, 346 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: like I suggested to him, invite Joe Manchin to tour 347 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: the micro facilities in New York or have letch arfk Junior. 348 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: Not because you want to support any of these people, 349 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: but that will make the White House nervous enough. That's 350 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: somewhere in the couch cushions, they'll find that five billion 351 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: dollars that you need. And instead of us having to 352 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: cut police officers or teachers or firefighters or sanitation pickups, 353 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: so whatever it is, we can have the money that 354 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: we need. So like, he's kind of the worst of 355 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: all worlds, which is he's out there and crazy enough 356 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: to make these accusations, but then not really tough enough 357 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: to actually follow through on it, and so we lose 358 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: in every way. 359 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: Bradley Task, I hope you'll come back. 360 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: I'd love to. 361 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: Julian Zelizer is a historian, a Princeton University and a 362 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: CNN political analyst. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Julian. 363 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: Great to be back. 364 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: I am so delighted to have you and for a 365 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: number of reasons. But you are an academic historian, but 366 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: you also right about what's going on now too. I 367 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: think that's fair. I'm curious what you think this moment 368 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: in history, What is it the closest to in modern history? 369 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 3: You know, I can't give an exact comparison, but look, 370 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 3: for me, it always brings back the sixties, which is 371 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: what I study about. In the second half of the sixties, 372 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: where the divisions were pretty deep in this country, and 373 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: there were issues where we were fundamentally in disagreement, whether 374 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 3: it was Vietnam, whether it was civil rights, whether it 375 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 3: was race relations. And for me, we're at a moment 376 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 3: like that and where some of our basic institutions are 377 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: kind of being questioned and under attech. 378 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: Give me more on the end of the sixties, you know, 379 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: sort of what were the fundamental moments that you think 380 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: were sort of the turning point there? 381 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 3: Well, certainly, look the nineteen sixty eight election where Lyndon 382 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: Johnson decides not to run, which I don't think is 383 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 3: going to happen today. Vice President Hubert Humphrey runs against 384 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 3: Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon was a Republican. He had been 385 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 3: Vice president he had been someone who crafted a whole 386 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: campaign railing against institutions, whether it was the media or 387 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: the academy, liberal institutions that he said didn't represent the 388 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: silent majority. He railed against social protests, which he said 389 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 3: didn't represent much of America. So that campaign, for me, 390 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 3: it is hard not to think of when I think 391 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 3: of how former President Trump is certainly going to position himself. 392 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: And Democrats in sixty eight were deeply divided. Vietnam cut 393 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 3: the party in the middle, and they had trouble really 394 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 3: kind of regrouping around that. There were just not on 395 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 3: the same page. And so that too right now, not 396 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 3: just with the Middle East, but many issues. I think 397 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 3: Democrats are struggling with some of that as well. So 398 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 3: that election, there's just a lot of interesting comparisons. 399 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: You know, It's funny when you think about Nixon, because 400 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: if you close your eyes and you listen to some 401 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: of Nixon's speeches, they sound fair trumpy. 402 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: They do, and I think it's not a total accident. 403 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 3: I mean, those are the years, the early late sixties, 404 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: early seventies where Donald Trump is coming of age and 405 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 3: starting to gain a sense of the world, and always 406 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: think that he's really kind of influenced by what Nixon 407 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: tried to do, by many of his appeals, and even 408 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 3: look when Nixon's going down as a result of Watergate 409 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy three and seventy four, he makes a 410 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 3: lot of the same kind of arguments you hear from 411 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 3: Trump about an establishment out to get him, about immedia 412 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 3: trying to subvert him. So I think Nixon really looms 413 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: large for Trump. 414 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I do think the split in the Democratic 415 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Party is a little bit different than I mean Vietnam was. 416 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: You know, do you want to send your son off 417 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: to die? Which I think is different than where we 418 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 1: are right now, which is a kind of feeling that 419 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: people under fifty do not want for an intervention of 420 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: any kind, which I think is really interesting, and I'm 421 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: hoping you could talk about that because I see anecdotally 422 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: and I also see it in a lot of the Again, 423 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: I hate polls, so I don't want to say poles, 424 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: but I'm certainly seeing a lot of organic events that 425 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: show that people under you know, forty or fifty are 426 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: really against you know, America being involved in foreign wars 427 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: and entanglements in a way that I think I have 428 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: never seen before. I'm wondering if you could talk about that. 429 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: Is it a resurgence to the time before World War Two? 430 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 2: Is it? 431 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: What do you think is creating that weird sauce? 432 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 3: Three things. 433 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: Look. 434 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: One, this is a generation which grew up and mine 435 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 3: is as well without a draft. I mean, the draft 436 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: goes away in seventy three. So military service is just 437 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 3: not something that lots of Americans have experienced. It's a 438 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 3: professional and so I think that changes how you think 439 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 3: of going overseas, serving overseas, and intervention. And then it's 440 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: a generation that has had now two really bad wars 441 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 3: take place. You know, Vietnam they didn't live through, but 442 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: they've heard about, and that set the template for how 443 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: we think of how foreign intervention can go wrong. And 444 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 3: then the war in Iraq, which is much closer to 445 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 3: the younger generation, which is equally a lesson for many 446 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: of them about how things go wrong. So there is 447 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 3: no World War Two in their memory. Bank does something 448 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 3: that is perceived as being fundamentally good and kind of 449 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 3: having the right outcome. They have Vietnam, in Iraq, they 450 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 3: don't have mass service, and obviously the end of the 451 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: Cold War kind of diminished one of the major unifying 452 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 3: threats that many Americans saw. 453 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: We're watching the Ukrainian president commander of the army go 454 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: to Washington and beg them for money basically, So one 455 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: of these things where there's a partisan divide, but I 456 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: think in real life it's actually a generational divide. 457 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: I think that's right, and not even kind of millennials 458 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: versus gen X. I think there's several generations where this 459 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: was always going to be hard to sustain. I mean, 460 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 3: this is what Putin understood that if he could wait 461 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 3: it out, support here would diminish. And this is not 462 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 3: seen by many people as a direct threat to the country. 463 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 3: So I think we're at a point now where certainly generationally, 464 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 3: a lot of younger Americans are going to want the 465 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: government to address issues here at home as opposed to 466 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 3: a broader, different sorts of issues instead of Ukraine. I'm 467 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 3: sure they'll be sentiment to deal with the climate. So 468 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: I think that funding for Ukraine it's not simply a 469 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 3: partisan issue, and I think Democrats are going to have 470 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 3: to struggle with that as well. 471 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean climate was never an issue historically. I 472 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: did see people to show that's seventy percent of all 473 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: Americans care about climate. I just wonder why we're not 474 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: seeing more of that sort of you know, you go 475 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: anywhere and there are climate protesters doing really a lot 476 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: of stuff, including in museums and Europe. I mean, there 477 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: really is a movement of young people who would like 478 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: to have the earth be inhabitable. Not a wildly unreasonable. 479 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 3: Thing, too very reasonable. And it's not simply protesters. I 480 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 3: mean you can just see that. And even if it's shallow, 481 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 3: how Americans are changing their daily practices to basic things 482 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 3: like what you do with your garbage to what you eat. 483 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: I think it's syncing in by Look, the opposition within 484 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 3: the United States is fierce, and that includes much of 485 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: the business community, which sectors of business do not want this, 486 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: and so they have money, they have clout, and they 487 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 3: can fight it. And then the Republican Party, for whatever 488 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 3: reason has decided, which was not inevitable, to align against this. 489 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 3: And so in a two party system with the polarized politics, 490 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 3: if one party is going to stand against this, you're 491 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 3: just not going to make much legislative progress. 492 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: It's so interesting to see when we talk about the sixties, 493 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: youth protest is such an important part here. When I 494 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: was growing up, we had these low turnout elections were 495 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: of enormous anxiety. Now all of a sudden, we have 496 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: these incredible, blockbuster elections. Can you talk to me about 497 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: that a little bit. 498 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 3: I mean, look, we'll see how it goes. I think 499 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 3: we were in these several election cycles where younger people 500 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 3: were feeling a sense of urgency. Part of it was 501 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 3: a response against former President Trump, where like many Americans, 502 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 3: younger Americans felt the stakes were so high you couldn't 503 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 3: sit home. Part of it was the pandemic. 504 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 2: I think. 505 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: I think a lot of young people kind of saw 506 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 3: the bottom fall out of their whole world, and that 507 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 3: can energize you politically, and that merged with issues like 508 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: Black Lives Matter, and I think all of that combined 509 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 3: into high turnout elections. The question is, and I don't 510 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 3: want to talk about poles since they know you don't 511 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 3: like them. I really doubt our in the creations. Young 512 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: people are not quite as excited this time around, and 513 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 3: so it's going to take a lot of basic grassroots work, 514 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 3: I think to keep that momentum up. Young people are 515 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 3: clearly engaged with issue. I mean, you see it all 516 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 3: the time, but the question is does that then turn 517 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: into voting again, And I think it's uncertain. Historically, young 518 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 3: people just have not come out to vote in the 519 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 3: same numbers as older people. 520 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: New York Times is obsessed with college campuses. You know, 521 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot of controversy over these three college presidents who 522 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: were not clear about their moral clarity and their condemnation 523 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: of antisemitism. It feels like the mainstream media cannot quit 524 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: the Ivy League. 525 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 3: That's true. Why some of it is a lot of 526 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 3: US reporters and members of the press went to some 527 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 3: of these schools, and so I think it's familiar. Part 528 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 3: of it is, I don't know, it's like when we 529 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 3: talk about Hollywood, we tend to talk about, you know, 530 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 3: ten stars as opposed to the whole range of acting. 531 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 3: So these become the high profile players. Part of it, 532 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 3: though it's not coming just from them. I think Look, 533 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 3: conservatives have been attacking universe for many years, and I 534 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: think Ivy leagues they fit the narrative. They seen by 535 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: the right as these elite, remote places that are disconnected 536 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: from the rest of the country, even though many of 537 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 3: the legislators doing this actually went to these schools. So 538 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 3: I think those are some of the reasons, and you're right, 539 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: we focus on a few universities and there's so many, 540 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 3: and we missed the diversity of the student experience. We 541 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 3: even do that with the IVY Leagues. I mean a 542 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: lot of this is taking one or two incidents and moments. 543 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 3: But look, the press should do better. If they want 544 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 3: to really write about what college university life is like, 545 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 3: they have to broaden their horizon. 546 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: But I do think that that's a good point that 547 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: there is such a focus on the IVY League, and 548 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: you do have Republicans who you know, people like Ron 549 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: de Santis who went to two IVY League institutions, and 550 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz, all of whom went to 551 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: IVY League institusions, all of whom are furious with IVY 552 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: League institutions. What I think so much about when it 553 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: comes is like, this is not really about anti Semitism. 554 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: I mean, at least Demonic does not give a fuck 555 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: about anti Semitism. I mean she doesn't. She's endorsed Trump 556 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: willingly multiple times, she endorsed Jim Jordan. I mean, these 557 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: are not people who care for the Jews. It's just 558 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: that this is like a moment for them. To go 559 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: after IVY League presidents in the hopes of fighting against 560 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: quote unquote wocism right totally. 561 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 3: I mean, the hypocrisy has seen her kind of make 562 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 3: this an issue when right wing anti semitism has been 563 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 3: a real serious problem, not just rhetorically. We're talking about 564 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 3: state groups, organized groups, many of them came to January sixth, 565 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 3: we're a real threat, physical threat, violent threat. And so 566 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 3: for a party that has been comfortable with that had 567 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: a president from their party that you know, trafficked in 568 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 3: this kind of rhetoric all the time, to now make 569 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 3: this the issue, it's hard to take them at their 570 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 3: word that this is really what they care about, and 571 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: they remain silent about kind of very well documented right 572 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 3: wing anti semitism. I don't think that's what's driving or 573 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 3: I do think it's just part of what we've seen 574 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 3: again for over a decade where the university has just 575 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 3: become one of the central foils for the right. There 576 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 3: are other critics who I think have legitimate concerns about 577 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 3: some of the protests and some of the rhetoric, but 578 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 3: that's not what's driving the arrogator at that moment. 579 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: Right, None of this is about really caring about the students. 580 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: But I want to sort of segue from that. I 581 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: was spending some time with someone who is an academic 582 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: expert in authoritarianism. We were talking about the authoritarian impulses 583 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: of Iron DeSantis de Santis. Sorry, she took over a university. 584 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: That is a real important sort of autocratic moment, and 585 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,959 Speaker 1: I was hoping you could sort of contextualize that, like 586 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: we see that with Erdowan. This is something we've seen before. 587 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: Can you speak to sort of the historical significance of 588 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: going after university? 589 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: Well, sure, I mean you have the Arrian history in general, 590 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 3: where strong arm leaders have often not wanted universities that 591 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: were free of thought. That's a danger. I mean, the 592 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 3: whole point of a strong arm leader is you make 593 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 3: free thought difficult because ultimately that can turn against you. 594 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 3: And then even within the United States, since the seventies, 595 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 3: not just authoritarianism, but conservatives have been going after universities, 596 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 3: which again back to Nixon. Since that time, they were 597 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: seen as these bastions of liberal ideas, and there's been 598 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 3: a concerted effort to really put political pressure to limit 599 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: some of the ideas that come out of our campuses 600 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 3: and so on. Both fronts. Universities are always a target, 601 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 3: and I think right now, you know, more conservatives are 602 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: feeling like they have a moment and it's broadening support 603 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: for what they have been doing, and they're kind of 604 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: almost capitalizing on the problems that have emerged for their 605 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 3: own political agenda. But it's important to see kind of 606 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: the risks here. We really need universities in an era 607 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 3: of disinformation and even polarized discussion. We need universities as 608 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 3: a place where ideas can still be worked through and 609 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: students can learn, and I think that is genuinely at risk. 610 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: Right Definitely, we're almost at a time. But I was 611 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: hoping you could talk about what's happening with Jimmy Carter, 612 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: and you know, the legacy of our kind of this 613 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: president who was slipping through our fingers. 614 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 3: It's amazing he's become this symbol, I think for many 615 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: Americans of a kind of politician from another era who 616 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 3: is so genuine about public service and who did things 617 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 3: that weren't always politically in his interests. Then he's survived 618 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 3: after his wife's passing, but he is obviously not in 619 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: great health. But it's one of those people I think 620 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 3: in our contentious, divisive and often toxic age a president 621 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 3: who at the time was not seen as successful. People 622 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 3: are looking back and saying, well, here's someone who really, 623 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 3: in many ways might be a model for what leadership means. 624 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 3: And I'm sure we'll hear more of that in the 625 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 3: coming months. 626 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Julian, I hope you'll come back. 627 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 3: Of course, thanks for having me. 628 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 629 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds 630 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you 631 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend 632 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.