1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: The word you use there a couple of times. Intrinsic motivation. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: That's the fuel, that's what everything's based on. And if 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: kids don't enjoy it, if they don't own it and 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: they're not intrinsically motivated, that they're not gonna make it. 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: This is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacoor from the 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project podcast. Today, I'm speaking with John O'Sullivan, 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: who started Changing the Game Project in two thousand twelve 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: after two decades as a soccer player and coach on 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: the youth, high school, college, and professional level. He's the 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: author of two number one best selling books. His work 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: has been featured on CNN, ESPN, NBC Sports and more, 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: and he's an internationally known speaker for coaches, parents and 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: youth sports organizations. John and I talked about the origins 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: of Changing the Game Project, running the race to the 17 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: wrong finish line, and how the word fun gets misunderstood 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: by adults back at it. I am really really excited 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: once again I've got another awesome guest. He's someone that 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: I've been very fortunate to build a relationship with these 21 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: last like three or four years. He's definitely a leader 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: in this space and someone who I admire him and 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: his work very very much. The founder of Changing the 24 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: Game Project author just I could probably go on and 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: on with introduction here, but my man John O'Sullivan. John, 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: thanks so much for hopping on, brother. It's great to 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: talk to you. Man. Well. I appreciate you. I love 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: your work, love what you do. You've been a voice 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: in the space for a long time, making a lot 30 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: of change and doing some amazing things. So I'm tickled 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: to have you. And where I want to start with you, John, 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: is you know you've been someone who's been at this 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: for now. I mean, I think coming on a decade, 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: if not more. I'm always interested to hear because I 35 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: know my story of why I wanted to come out 36 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, talk about youth sports and 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: kind of give my feedback, and you know what caused 38 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: me to feel moved enough to do that? What made 39 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: you want to start kind of getting out there? What's 40 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: your history about and where to Change in the Game 41 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: project stem from? You know, for me, it came out 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: of my own children, right, I've been coaching for many 43 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: years and coaching other people's kids, and then my own 44 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: children started hitting that age where I was coaching them 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: or watching them play, and then you just see the 46 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: world a little different to the parent, you know. And 47 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: I saw it and I was like, wow, this is 48 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: a little messed up in the youth for its world, 49 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: and let me find some resources that I can pass 50 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: on to parents to help them do this better. And 51 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I don't see a lot out 52 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: there that there's a little bit, but it's kind of 53 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: hard to find. If I can't find it, certainly no 54 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: one's going to find it who's not even looking for it. 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: And so that was kind of how Changing the Game 56 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: project was born. I finally made this decision to like, well, 57 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: if I can't find it, maybe I can create that. 58 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: And so I decided to write a book called Changing 59 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: the Game, and then realized it's actually not super hard 60 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: to write a book. It's really hard to let people 61 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: know you fit in the book, and so I started 62 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: a blog around it, and then it kind of blew 63 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: up from there to uh ted Talk and a lot 64 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: of speaking and the second book and podcasts and all 65 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. But it was really just around 66 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: this idea of I've learned a lot as a coach 67 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: and I'd love to be able to pass this on 68 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: of how could parents and how can coaches best support 69 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: to athletes that are in front of them, and maybe 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: I can make a little bit of a difference in 71 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: the world for different families, different parents. And I think 72 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: that's how you and I even got connected. I wanted 73 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: to create a place where people could feel like, if 74 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: I go there and I read something, it's a trusted 75 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: resource that I know is good advice based on research, 76 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: based on best practices of coaching, or sports psychology or 77 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: sports science, and so yeah, I think over almost ten years, 78 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: like you said, now it's it's grown, and it's been 79 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: pretty cool to see the amount of people who have 80 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: said they really made a difference in my relationship with 81 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: my son or my daughter, like coach, to me, that 82 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: is the best reward. And that's exactly how I found you. 83 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: You know, I kind of went through that samee you know, 84 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: from being a former athlete to coaching my kids and 85 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: then realizing like something was just off. I just did 86 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: that same thing. I looked on the internet. I'm like, 87 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: where can I find information that's where I found change 88 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: in the game project. What were some of the things 89 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: that you saw, Like, I know you're you're involved in 90 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: all different types of sports, but like, what were some 91 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: of the things that you saw firsthand when you were 92 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: a sports parent and obviously a coach at one point. 93 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know if you still are, but one 94 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: of the things that you actually saw happening, you know, 95 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: on the pitch or on the baseball field, that you 96 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: observed that made you realize like, hey, I gotta dig 97 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: deep here, something's off. So I am still involved in 98 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: coaching soccer for my daughter and now my son, and 99 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: I also run a little kids program, you know, seven eight, 100 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: nine year old and um, you know, there was just 101 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: a number of things. Let's just talk about it from 102 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: the parenting side of of things. Number one, just being 103 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: patient and enjoying the journey, um, and and just understanding 104 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,119 Speaker 1: that every child is on their on path. Every child 105 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: has their own passions, and the idea that you're going 106 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: to compare your child's path to someone else's makes no 107 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: sense because every kid is so different. And so to 108 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: enjoy it and let your kids enjoy it and let 109 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: them have a childhood because they only get one, and 110 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: I just saw this massive rush to train kids like adults, 111 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: and these programs out there going, you know, your nine 112 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: year old summer training program is what we do for 113 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: college athletes. I'm like, why would you do it for 114 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: nine year old? That makes no sense. Why don't you 115 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: do what college athletes did when they were nine? Right? 116 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: That that that's what would make sense, and promises of 117 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: scholarships and that the only way to go is Division 118 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: one sports, which I know is something you're passionate about. Um, 119 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: And so that was really it. You know, our mission 120 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: statements kind of put a little play back and play 121 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: ball and then and then um, you know, from a 122 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: coaching perspective, it was sort of everything I wish someone 123 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: taught me when I was starting out coaching, because I 124 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: think when you started out coaching, you think it's all 125 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: about the practices and the XS and ose and the 126 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: tactics and the periodization and all that, and then you 127 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: hopefully finally realized that coaching is all about relationships and 128 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: it's about understanding and winning the relationship game. And I 129 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: wish someone told me that when I was twenty six 130 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: and stopped playing pro soccer and started coaching that that 131 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: someone would have said, Hey, it's about people, It's about 132 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: coaching the person and not the sport, because um I did, 133 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: I would have been I think a lot better coach 134 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: a lot sooner. And so these are the type of 135 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: things that I just saw over and over and over 136 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: and said, maybe I can just reach a few people 137 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: and and make a difference there. You know, and I 138 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: have spoken several times, and one time we were having 139 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: a conversation and you used the quote which I love, 140 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: which was we're winning the race to the wrong finish line. 141 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I hear that, and I'm like, well, 142 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: I get that you're winning the race of the wrong 143 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: finish line. Makes me think. When I spoke with you know, 144 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: someone who I admire very much, Mike Fox, who's the 145 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: former head baseball coach University of North Carolina. Just to 146 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: kind of touch on what you just spoke on the 147 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: relationship piece, we were talking about early recruiting and that's 148 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: such a dynamic today in high school and college sports. 149 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, kids are being offered and committing to colleges. Heck, 150 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: even as young as eighth graders, but a lot of 151 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: freshman sophomores um and Coach Fox said, A lot of 152 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: that takes the relationship out of the equation, you know, 153 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: And he said he tried to hold on very long 154 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: to that relationship piece of it, but the pressures the 155 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: recruiting aspect of it, and the the need to commit, 156 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: you know, and get kids and win the recruiting race, 157 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: it almost removes that relationship piece, which you and I 158 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: know is so vital, as you touched on. So when 159 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: you say winning the race to the wrong finish line 160 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: and also talk about the relationship piece and how sped 161 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: up the recruiting processes, is that kind of what you're 162 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: talking about there? Oh? Yeah, for sure. And then as 163 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: instituted a couple of reforms, which is helpful, I think, 164 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: but it's amazing. So I have a daughter who is 165 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: going to be a junior in high school next year, 166 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: a son who's going to be a sophomore, and neither 167 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: of them is ready to decide where they're going to 168 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: go to college. I mean, the most important decision they're 169 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: going to make in their early life, right, and I 170 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: mean throwing COVID right. My daughter and son have each 171 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: spent only one year on a high school campus, and 172 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: so to think like someone who's never even stepped foot 173 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: in a high school campus is deciding where they're going 174 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: to college. It makes it absolutely zero sense. But you know, 175 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: I felt for coaches because someone like Mike Fox might say, 176 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not going to participate in that 177 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: early race to nowhere, but if everyone else is, I'm 178 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: going to get left behind. And so we wonder why 179 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: we have this transfer portal in college sports and so 180 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: many athletes leaving after one season, Well, they're in the 181 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: wrong place because they made a commitment to a school 182 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: that might not even have the same coach. It's not 183 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: binding anyway until they signed their letter of intent when 184 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: they're a senior um and it's often made for for 185 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. You're a very different person when you're 186 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: a senior in high school than when you're a freshman 187 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: in high school or a middle school or gods a bit. 188 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: And as Mike says, you know, you can't how do 189 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: you get to know a person, How do you get 190 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: to know a kid his or her family, what they're like, 191 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: what they're gonna be like. You don't even recruiting the 192 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: final athlete, and especially you know, in his case in baseball, 193 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: which is such a late bloomer sport. Um, you certainly 194 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: can't recruit a picture in middle school because they'll probably 195 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: blow out his elbow at the time he's coming to you. 196 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: So it's just it's just we we've told we totally 197 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: lost sight of it, and it's this race to just 198 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: get it. And what happens for too many kids, Nick, 199 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: as you know, is it becomes all about getting that spot, 200 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: and then what's the motivation. It's done. They get to 201 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: college and they're burnt out their toast, They've already achieved 202 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: their goal. There's no hunger to get better, there's no 203 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: hunger to approve. And so all of a sudden, you 204 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: get this kid that you just gave a scholarship to 205 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: shows up on campus and they're like, am kind of 206 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: tired of the rat race here, but thanks for the scholarship. 207 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: I'll milk my way through four years and do that. 208 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: So it's just a mess. And so you know, I 209 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: always said my kids, you never if your past this 210 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: college sports, you're never making an early commitment. And I 211 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: always encourage kids, do the work, make your decisions, um, 212 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: but do it on your timeline, and certainly don't be 213 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: forced by some coach to do it because if they're 214 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: telling you you have to decide now in eighth grade 215 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: or something, they don't have your best interests in mind. 216 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: I can promise you that if you take it back 217 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: even to the earlier ages, because I'm listening to you 218 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: and I'm going you know, we're talking about you know, 219 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: college improvement there for a second, but it goes all 220 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: the way back to you know, even in the seven, eight, nine, ten, 221 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: eleven year old age brackets. Right, you have obviously the 222 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: pay for play structure that's out there. Um, you know, 223 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: coaches often talk about for travel organizations development. But at 224 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: the same time, we can be about development and our 225 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: team can get better, our kids can improve. But a 226 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: lot of times if you're paying a lot of money 227 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: and and I've seen this so many times, and the 228 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: teams aren't winning well, then they're gonna pull their kids 229 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: off a team and go to another team. So there's 230 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: this push pull even at those young age. It's almost 231 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: like what's happening in the high school and college ranks 232 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: now is a byproduct of what kind of stem from 233 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: the It seems like it almost one leads to the 234 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: other or I don't know what came first, but it 235 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: seems like it's one big ecosystem of like early seeing 236 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: early seeing, and it's forcing kids and parents the fair 237 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: of missing out. Man, it just seems like it's it's 238 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: just spread across this entire platform. It's like no one 239 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: at times is is just sitting back and smelling the 240 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: roses and just enjoying. It's almost like you're a an 241 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: outlier if you just kind of sit back as a 242 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: parent watch your kids play, enjoy it as opposed to 243 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: getting caught up in the rat race and the comparison game. 244 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: And as you touched on earlier, that could be the 245 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: most lethal uh detriment to a young kids. You know, 246 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: youth athletic career is the comparison game because, like you 247 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: talked about, everyone developed at different times, late bloomers and such. 248 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: How do those kids because I was one of them 249 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: who the baseball will grew and I didn't, so I 250 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: couldn't reach second base, and you know, I was fairly skilled, 251 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: but my body was small. I would consider myself a 252 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: late bloomer. I was a little younger. How do you 253 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: keep those kids involved? And more importantly, how do you 254 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: keep those parents from feeling that pressure? Like, what are 255 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: things that you can tell people about how to avoid that. 256 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you hit the nail on the head, right. 257 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,479 Speaker 1: The problem is this every time you set an arbitrary 258 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: talent identification year. Right, So we're gonna pick the national 259 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: team at sixteen, Well, what do we have to do 260 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: at fifteen, fourteen, and thirteen so we can be there 261 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: at sixteen? And what happens is you have this trickle 262 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: down effect. So let's say some state decides that they're 263 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: going to play that travel baseball starts at eleven you, Well, 264 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: what are the clubs? Then say, well, if we started 265 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: leving you, we better organize them at ten you so 266 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,599 Speaker 1: that we know we have a team at eleven you 267 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: sounds great too. Or three years later, everyone looks around goes, 268 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: you know what, we all have organized ten you team. 269 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: Why don't we just start that? Oh well, now we 270 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: have to get the nine news organized, so we're ready 271 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: at tent right now we have to get the eight 272 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: US so we're ready at nine. And so it's this 273 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: race to the bottom if you will um that as 274 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: soon as you say we're gonna do this at this age, well, 275 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: we're going to do the previous the year before or 276 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: two years before, and it's just how do you how 277 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: do you stop? How do you stop that that effect? 278 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: So these are the issues. And then the other issue 279 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: that you kind of touched on there is if you're 280 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: a parent who lets your kids explore multiple sports, if 281 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: you say, We're not going to join the baseball rat 282 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: race at eight years old and play little league, in 283 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: club baseball and whatever, and I'm not picking up baseball, throwing, soccer, 284 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: ice hockey, lacrosse, you you name, it is every sport, right, 285 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: No one is not guilty of this um. The The 286 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: issue is that there, earlier you go, the more likely 287 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: you are going to get the talent identification decision wrong. 288 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: And you're also creating a self fulfilling prophecy. So the 289 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: person who is excluded from the talent development pipeline at 290 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: eight can never get back in. So your example as 291 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: a a late blooming, late physically developing baseball player, you know, 292 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: I remember reading a couple of years ago. I think 293 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: it was Lorenzo Caine right. He was the a L 294 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: Playoffs m v P. He only started playing baseball when 295 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: he was a sophomore in high school, and the only 296 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: reason he made the team was they didn't have enough 297 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: kids right, and then this guy goes on to be 298 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: an All Star a playoff m v P. I don't 299 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: know if you want a world series or not, but 300 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: it's like the problem is when you say, if you're 301 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: not in the pipeline at eight, you can never get it. Well, 302 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: there's not a single per in the talent development space 303 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: who would tell you that that's the best way. It 304 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: would tell you that's the exact wrong way. And so 305 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: it is the conundrum so many parents face. Is I 306 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: hear what you're saying, Nick, I hear what you're saying, John, 307 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: But if we don't do this, we'll never get back in. 308 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: And they're not wrong to say that, And that's the 309 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: problem with our system. When we come back, John and 310 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: I dive into purpose and motivation. Welcome back where John 311 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: and I left off. We're about to discuss the importance 312 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: of kids coming up with their own purpose and his 313 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: use of the word enjoyment instead of fun, as the 314 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: latter is often misunderstood. So there comes a point where 315 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: you kind of gotta have a little bit of faith, right, 316 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I almost feel like it's taken a step 317 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: back and looking at it with a lens. Right, we 318 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: put all those stats out there. You know, everyone talks 319 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: about the percentage that go on to college participating athletes 320 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: roughly won't play past high school, they won't play in 321 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: the n C Double A, they won't become college athletes. Right, So, 322 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: as a parent, maybe there comes a point where I 323 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: gotta realize, is it realistic? Is it not? But also 324 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: isn't there an element of, Hey, if my kids really 325 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: going to be passionate about this, maybe it's got to 326 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: come from within. Maybe I'm not the one that's supposed 327 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: to be driving it, because I know from my own 328 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: personal experience that you know, seeing the athletes that get 329 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: to the higher levels, or they're competitive in college and 330 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: so on, they were moved by something intrinsically within them. 331 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: I've seen plenty, I'm sure you have too, John, plenty 332 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: of very talented, you know, athletes get to college and 333 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: they get a little freedom, and then they are they 334 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: just stopped working. They don't want to be there because 335 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: the whole time it was being driven, you know, buying 336 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: exterior force, whether that be a parent or a guardian, 337 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: whoever it is, a coach. Do you think that there's 338 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: an element of, you know, maybe taking a step back 339 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: just supporting your kid and not you know, putting that 340 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: hard core press on them to work, work, work or develop, 341 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: and that will in turn allowed the intrinsic motivation, whether 342 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: it's there and come to fruition. Yeah, And the word 343 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: used to use there a couple of times. Intrinsic motivation. 344 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: That's the fuel, that's what everything's based on. And if 345 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: kids don't enjoy it, if they don't own it, and 346 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: they're not intrinsically motivated, that they're not gonna make it. 347 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: And so I've been around talent development spaces for a 348 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: long time now, god almost, you know, and well into 349 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: my third decade, and I've seen kids that i've coached, 350 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: the number one first round draft picks. I've seen them 351 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: play professionally in Europe, college, all Americans, things like that, 352 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: and they are all intrinsically motivated to get there, right. 353 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: They are attached, they have a purpose, they're driven, and 354 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: sometimes they start that way and they're on the path 355 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: and then they decide that they're not. But the idea 356 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: that as a parent you're going to force it out 357 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: of your kids every once in a while, you might, right, 358 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 1: but you know, then you get the person who's got 359 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: a lot of psychological issues, maybe relationship issues with you 360 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: because of that. Um. So sometimes kids can have uber 361 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: genetics and they can get by without that drive, without 362 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: that hard work for a while because they're bigger, faster, stronger, 363 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: early developer, born early in the calendar year, whatever it is, right, 364 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: That can happen, but it usually doesn't sustain over over 365 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: the long term. You need that drive, that willingness to 366 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: go put in the work, to love the grind, all 367 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff that all those phrases we use. 368 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: That's the case, right, that's the case of the kid 369 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: who's going to get that scholarship. And you. I think 370 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: you can help your kids develop work ethic. I think 371 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: you can expect them to work hard, to be committed 372 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: things like that, but I don't think you can give 373 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: them a purpose in their life that has to come 374 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: from within, that has to be their purpose, their passion. 375 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: My wife and I were just talking about this this 376 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: morning with h one of our cousins her you know, 377 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: her cousin's kids, and we were just saying how wonderful 378 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: it was. The younger one was graduating and this is 379 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: going to be a Division one athlete, and the older 380 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: one was into singing in theater and followed her path 381 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: into a music school. And we're like, how isn't it 382 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: cool how those kids really found what they love to 383 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: do and followed it. That wasn't their parents going, you're 384 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: going to be this right? And so I think this 385 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: is the thing as a parent, if you can give 386 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: your kids the space to find something they're passionate about 387 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: and be okay with that, and it might not be 388 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, we give a lot of attention to sports. 389 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: What if we gave as much attention to biology or 390 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: something like that. You know, like how your kids just 391 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: wants to be a researcher. How cool is that? But 392 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: we don't go sport is public and it just I 393 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: don't know, it just doesn't work out. You know, it 394 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: just doesn't work out. You just see unhappy kids who 395 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: aren't passionate about what they do, and they eventually fade away. 396 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: I really want to get into this because it's I 397 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: think the most important word in youth sports. I think 398 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: it's what keeps kids coming back. The word fun. Now, 399 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: some people will hear the word fun and what what 400 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: makes youth sports or what makes sports fund Some people 401 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: will hear that and go winning. You Winning is fun. 402 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: Losing sucks, so we gotta win. If kids don't win, 403 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: they're not gonna have fun. I disagree with that, I mean, 404 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: especially at the young ages. Don't get me wrong, winning 405 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: is fun. But I've seen kids be just as miserable 406 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: on winning teams, and I've seen kids very happy on 407 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: teams that aren't as successful. What is fun to you? 408 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: What when you hear the word fun and you think 409 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: about youth sport parents here that what should they think 410 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: that their kids should be experience wise from playing a sport. 411 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: When it comes to the word fun, I think that 412 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: the word fun gets misunderstood by adults. Awesome. I think 413 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: of my own kids in elementary school going out to 414 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: recess and playing soccer, playing kickball, playing football, whatever the sport. 415 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: Dejure was right. They also made even teams. No one 416 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: set up the recess teams to win eight nothing because 417 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: that wasn't fun. Competing as fun. Most kids would say, 418 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: I'd rather win to one this week and lose three 419 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: too next week and win eight nothing, eight nothing, eight nothing. 420 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: That's not fun. Fun is, you know, disappears when you 421 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: don't get playing time because the only focus is winning. 422 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: Things like that are really important for us to remember. 423 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: And so I tend to use the word enjoyment because 424 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: I can say to adults, what do you enjoy doing 425 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: in your life? And a lot of people, you know, 426 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: are cyclists, or they swim, or you know, lots of 427 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: people are runners. I was like, you know, if you 428 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: run a marathon mile twenties, is that fun? No? Not? 429 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: When weird things are cramping up and you you know, 430 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: you're dehydrated and your whole body hurts, that's not necessarily 431 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: pleasurable in the moment, But you can still enjoy running. 432 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: And so enjoyment being the pursuit of things that you 433 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: love to do. That means it still can be a 434 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: demanding environment. It can be hard. It can mean that 435 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: you're grinding and that you don't always have a smile 436 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: on your face, but at the end you appreciate that 437 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: hard work. And so sport has to be enjoyment. And 438 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: what do we know brings enjoyment? Good organized coaching, positive coaching, 439 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: positive team dynamics, um working hard, learning new things. That 440 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: is where enjoyment comes from. And good coaches and good 441 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: organizations understand that they teach their parents that and then 442 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: say parents, please just take a step back and give 443 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: them the space to explore, to learn, to to do 444 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: the reps to make mistakes. If you do that, you 445 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: give your child the best chance of succeeding in anything 446 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: that they do. And um, you know that that's that's 447 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: it in a nutshell, because right Nick, as an adult, 448 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what you do for exercise or anything 449 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: like that, but I my guarantee is that you tend 450 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: to drift towards something that at least gives you some 451 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: enjoyment and some self satisfaction when when you do it, 452 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: I run and uh, I gotta tell you, And I 453 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: put three I mean, I'm in Wilming to North Carolina. 454 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: It's been a hundred degrees the last few days. And 455 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: every time I go run, I put on a thermal 456 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: on the armor shirt, I put another long sleeve shirt 457 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: on and that I put a sweatshirt over that, and 458 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: I run three point one to four miles. And I 459 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I don't do it because I enjoy 460 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: the process. But when I'm done and I'm dripping sweat 461 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: and I'm feeling good about it, my mind is clear, 462 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm listening to music. I feel good afterwards. But I 463 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: think I've I've also developed that routine in that habit 464 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: so that that runners quote unquote high is fun to me. 465 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: But you know, doing the actual work isn't. It's the 466 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: reward of the effort and competing with myself. So I 467 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: agree with you on it. Yeah, and you know what 468 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: I mean. Well, first of all, since I used to 469 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: live in Willmington, North Carolina, I never found the need 470 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: to put on all those clothes to be dripping with 471 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: sweat when it was on the decrease. But I'll just 472 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: leave it at that. Um number two. Um, you know, 473 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: I don't run because I don't get a runner's high. 474 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 1: I never enjoyed running, but I love to mountain bike. Right. 475 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: I did seventeen miles yesterday, twenty of the day before. 476 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: I love that right that gives me that high that 477 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: running gives you. It doesn't matter if it's hard, matter 478 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: if I'm exhausted at the end, I am intrinsically motivated 479 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: to seek out those times to do that because at 480 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: the end I'm like, yeah, that was awesome, man, that 481 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: was hard, and I can't wait to do that again. 482 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: And if you can find a coach in a sport, 483 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: in a sport environment where your son or daughter feels 484 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: like that, You're You're in a good spot right there, 485 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: because they're gonna get a lot out of that experience. 486 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna say that they're going to play 487 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: at the next level, because there's a lot of things 488 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: that go into that, but at least they can have 489 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: a positive experience that if they decide that, you know what, 490 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm not going to play this in college or I'm 491 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: not gonna play this in high school. But man, that 492 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: was still an awesome part of my life. And when 493 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: I'm an adults, I'm gonna play in the co ed league. 494 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to coach my kids team well worth their while. 495 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: John O'Sullivan, Johnny Oh, coach Johnny Oh. This has been 496 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: freaking awesome. I can't thank you enough. Where can we find? 497 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: You know, change in the Game Project. People want to 498 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: find your content? Where do they go? Yeah? It changes 499 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: the Game Project. Dot com is the is the main 500 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: webs night, of course, and you can just search for 501 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: us on Facebook or at CTG project HQ on Twitter 502 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: and Instagram, and uh, you know, books are on Amazon, Barnes, 503 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: Noble if you're overseas, book depository is free shipping, and uh, yeah. Man. 504 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: Podcast is called Way at Champions and it's a good one. 505 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: It's a great yeah. Well, I can't thank you enough. Brother. 506 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. You do so much great work. I 507 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: admire you, and I just thank you so much for 508 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: coming on and sharing. Man. Thanks to my friend. Thanks Nick, 509 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: great great stuff that you do as well, and keep 510 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: up the great work. That's John O'Sullivan, founder of the 511 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: Change in the Game Project. Thanks for listening to the 512 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast dom Nick Boticourt and Our goal 513 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: is to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all 514 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: areas of sports, your education, and advocacy. For updates, please 515 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out 516 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project