1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: know we're ready for you. Here are just a few 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: of the people at Metro to tell you how we're 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep writers safe. We're cleaning like 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: nevill before greatly. You've found hair sand no mask, no 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: metron one. We have a few extras at Metro. We're 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep the DC area moving. Find 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: out more at well mata dot com slash doing our part. 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: Adam White is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: also director of the Center for the Study of Administratives 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: the Administrative State at George Mason's Excellent Universally at George 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: Mason University's Excellent and in Scalia Law School. Haste makes waste. 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: I'm better off just talking at my normal pace. But 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: because we're on discipline, fools who went long in the 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: last segment, we don't have as much time with the 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: fabulous Adam White. That's why I'm hurrying. I apologize, Adam. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: How are you, sir? Great? It's always great to be here. Well, 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: thank you, um so listen uh. In terms of press 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: coverage and excitement, the census question ruling might be number one, 20 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: but in terms of significance to the republic. I think 21 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: probably the jerrymander in case of the Supreme Court decided 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: this week was number one. Briefly, if you can, what 23 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: do you make of the decision? What does it mean 24 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: on the jerrymandering case. Yeah, I wasn't wasn't surprised by 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: the Court's decision. They made the right decision. There's been 26 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: this call for the Supreme Court for years now to 27 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: get involved with the called partisan jerrymandering, where people say, 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: it's not that I'm being denied the right to vote, 29 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: but my vote isn't get of an enough effect because 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: my my district is shaped to sort of either minimize 31 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: the number of voters like me or maximize the number 32 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: of voters like me. And the Court sort of, you know, 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: for ence, Brown said, how do we administer a standard 34 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: that gives you the right sort of goldilocks level of 35 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: political influence within your state? The Court said, there's just 36 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: the rule we can apply. There's nothing in the Constitution 37 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: that creates a rule here. So this isn't even really 38 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: a legal question. It's what we call political question. And 39 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: so the Court won't even touch the issue. And that 40 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: was the right decision the should apply rules that are 41 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: found in the Constitution, not just sort of make up 42 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: their best sense of what makes good policy. I get 43 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: that ruling, and that makes perfectly good sense, but as 44 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: as far as the practical outcome of it, does that 45 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: mean states that had been doing that are gonna feel like, oh, 46 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: we can really take it over the top now because 47 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: the Supreme courts already decided this is our gig well 48 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: to go back to the states. And the question is 49 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: how do the states solve it? The Constitution says that 50 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: the state legislatures are supposed to draw districts. Now, the 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court a couple of years ago fudged on that 52 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: and said states can have independent district and commissions. Do this, 53 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: it is gonna be real pushing a lot of states 54 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: in light of this decision to create independent districting uh, 55 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: independent redistricting commissions basically turn the electoral process over to 56 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: the administrative state and try to draw these lines. I 57 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: think that would be very worrisome. I think it really 58 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: we need to leave this with the state legislatures to 59 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: solve these issues. Could a state Supreme Court say to 60 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: its legislature, hey, you guys, screwed up it's possible in 61 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: light of the state supreme courts are sorry of the 62 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: state's own constitution. The state supreme court might say, well, 63 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: there's a provision in our constitution that gives greater protection 64 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: of the federal Constitution and working to enforce it. There's 65 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of that, i'd say across the 66 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: board in the Roberts Court era, where progressives feel less 67 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: confident that they'll get what they want out of the 68 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, they're gonna put more and more pressure on 69 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: the state supreme courts under state constitutions to create these rights. 70 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: But for better or for worse, that's federalism. Yeah, right, 71 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: well for better if you ask me. But let's talk 72 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about the census question ruling. The Trump 73 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: administration wanted to put on a question that said, are 74 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: you a citizen? Uh, there's great hue and cry, even 75 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: though that strikes me as an incredibly reasonable question. But 76 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: this the court said, no, no, you can't. For now 77 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: what did they say? Why? So this is one of 78 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: those cases that gets a lot more complicated because it's 79 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: it all involves administrative law in the administrative state. The 80 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: sort of thing that I get paid to put students 81 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: to sleep over for a force of a semester. Let 82 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: me try to keep it simple. Um, the question at 83 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: issue isn't whether the Commerce Department can put the citizenship 84 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: question on the census, But the Supreme Court said the 85 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: way they went about it was the wrong way. In 86 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: administrative law, whatever an agency does something, it has to 87 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: come up with a reasonable rational explanation for what they did. 88 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: In this case, the Court's progressives, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, 89 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: concluded that the the explanation that Wilbur Ross, the Commerce Secretary, 90 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: gave it was just too much of a pretext that 91 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: saying we did this in order to help vindicate the 92 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act really didn't make a whole lot of sense. 93 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: It didn't have much support in the administrative record. So 94 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: now they're sending it back to the Commerce Department. And 95 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: this I think was really misunderstood and a lot of 96 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: the early coverage yesterday. The Court didn't declare that the 97 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: Trump administration can't use the SENTI citizens citizenship question in 98 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: the census. Rather, it's going to go back to the 99 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: District Court and then it should go back to the 100 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: Commerce Department for a do over. Now it's gonna be 101 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: a do over in a hurry, and I suspect that 102 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: the trial court is going to try to stop the 103 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: Commerce Department from doing this. We might wind up right 104 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: back in the Supreme Court very quickly on an emergency 105 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: motion to see how much running room the Commerce partner 106 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: is going to have for a do over. But it 107 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: seems to me, by my understanding of the opinion and 108 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: the doctrines around it, that the Commerce should still have 109 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: time for a do over. Adam White as a research 110 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: fellow with the Over Institution and director of the Center 111 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: for the Study of the Administrative State at George Mason University, 112 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: santonn Scalia Law School, was there anything else in particular 113 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: that really caught your ir ear this week? You thought 114 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court made a major move. Yeah, for somebody 115 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: who focuses on administrative long administrative state, it was a 116 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: really interesting last couple of weeks. You know. President Trump 117 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: put Gore such in Kavana on the Court in large 118 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: part because of their focused on administrative state. We saw 119 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: a lot of that. We saw that in the Commerce case. 120 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: We saw it in a case called Kaiser, which had 121 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: to do with how much deference the court should give 122 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: agencies interpreting the law. We saw a couple of weeks 123 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 1: ago in a case called Gundi was a big question 124 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: for where the Congress had just delegated too much power 125 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: to the Justice Department. That Congress basically handed over its 126 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: legislative power. Now, these opinions were all kind of a 127 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: mixed bag. Um, there's something conservatives can cheerful or if 128 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: nothing else for strong descents coming from Gore, such and others. 129 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: But I think you really saw here the first fruits 130 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: of those Trump judicial appointments and beginning a conversation that's 131 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: going to proceed for decades over the right role and 132 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: narrow role of the administrative state in our constitutional Interesting. 133 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: The administrative state terrifies me by the way, Adam, the 134 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: the bureaucrats, the the unelected makers, passers and enforcers of 135 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: rules in the United States terrifying me. It should terrify you, 136 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: should also disappoint you. Our framers work the Constitution worked 137 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: very hard to give us a constitution rooted in the 138 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: separation of powers and check and balances. The administrative states 139 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: a threat to a lot of that. It's also a 140 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: failure of our government to maintain the structure we were given. 141 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of cistereros quote on bureaucrats? Beloved 142 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: listener passed this along. It's too good not to share 143 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: with you. A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, 144 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one 145 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: hardly admires vultures whom beer aocrats so strongly resemble. I've 146 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: yet to meet a bureaucrat who is not petty, dull, 147 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: almost witless, crafty or stupid, un oppressor or a thief, 148 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: a holder of little authority in which he delights as 149 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can 150 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: trust such creatures. That's a pretty good line. I have 151 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: to say. There's some good lines in the Gore such 152 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: opinion too, and in justice Thomas opinion conservative lucky to 153 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: have these justices, sort of focusing down on these first principles. 154 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: Adam White, research fellow with the Hoover Institution, also with 155 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: George Mason University's Anton in Scalia Law School. Adam, it's 156 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: always enlightening. Thanks a bunch well done, are strong and getty. 157 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride metro, we want you to 158 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: know we're ready for you. Here are just a few 159 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: of the people at Metro to tell you how we're 160 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like 161 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: noble before half build greatly. You've found halfs out of towns, 162 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: of stations all over the Metro. No mask, no Metro 163 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: need one. We have a few extras at Metro. We're 164 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: doing our part to keep the DC area moving. Find 165 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: out more at wilma dot com slash doing our part