WEBVTT - Ancient Egyptian Curses, Part 2 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.600 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:15.920 name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.279 And I am Joe McCormick. And finally, that first October 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.120 chill is in the air. Rob I don't know if 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.479 you can see on the chat here, I am wearing 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:24.000 a long. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:24.720 Sleeve shirt today. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.120 It's very exciting at our house, where we love the 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.440 month of October, of course, and my daughter especially is 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.680 just thrilled that it's actually October. I don't know if 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.919 we've talked about this yet, but she is obsessed with 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.080 Halloween decorations. So she like, you know, the biggest thing 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.280 she wants to do right now is go out and 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.600 see which houses in our neighborhood have already put selkins out, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.760 skeletons and vampires and all that. And there's this wonderful 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.760 like attraction repulsion to certain Halloween decorations, Like there's a 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.320 scary vampire that she wants to see. But then she's like, 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.360 I'm gonna have to close my eyes, but I want 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:03.800 to see it. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.960 Have you seen the new big skeletons that are out. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.240 I don't know about the new big skeleton. 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.320 So we had the big skeletons that just look like, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.959 you know, a giant skeleton standing in a yard. But 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.000 this season there are new ones where it looks like 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.520 an even bigger skeleton is climbing out of the ground 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.520 of somebody's front yard. These are popping out throughout our 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.200 neighborhood and they're pretty great. Like, you can make a 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.120 big case for a lot of things in the world 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.760 being in decline, but not front yard skeletons. This is 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.120 an area that we're absolutely on the up and up with. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.800 Wow, I don't think i've seen that. What we've seen 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.160 partially buried skeletons. It's almost a joke thing where people 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.160 have like a skull and then some skeleton hands and feet, 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.520 but it's like the body is underground, like it's sort of, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.720 I don't know, half buried. But anyway, hello listeners. Yeah, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:53.840 if you're new to the show and you're not familiar 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.040 with our seasonal traditions, here's the deal. Of course, Rob 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.200 and I are both Halloween heads, so every October were 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.480 all month long we indulge our monster obsessed brains, and 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.440 we devote all of our core episodes to spooky stuff, 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.520 witchy stuff, and we also make sure that all of 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.880 our Friday Weird House cinema selections are in the horror genre. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.560 I mean, we talk about horror a good bit. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:16.639 It's not hard for us to. 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.560 Do throughout the rest of the year too, but we 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.320 really drill in on horror for a Weird House in October. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.799 So yeah, if you are new to our October season offerings. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.440 Last year, our core episodes in October were about what 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.360 we did, a series on haunted locomotives and railroad madness. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.560 There was a period where people were convinced that trains 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.840 were creating railway mad men. We talked about the demonology 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.680 of ancient Mesopotamia. We talked about pig monsters and a 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.600 series called The Hogs of Hell, getting into mythological monster's pigs, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.480 and then also the paleontology record of what kind of 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.840 pig like animals that would actually horrify you did exist 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.960 in reality at one point. And then finally we did 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.240 an entry in our Grimoar of Horror series where we 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.960 each pick a horror short story to discuss and relate 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.919 it usually back to some kind of science or science 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.200 adjacent adjacent topic. And this year we've got a whole 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.239 month of stuff like that in store for you. So yeah, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.760 if your new stick with us, of course, also if 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:19.320 you're old, stick with us as well. 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:19.840 Yeah. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.480 Absolutely, But earlier this week we got to jump on 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.880 things before October had technically begun. We got a head 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:29.920 start on things with part one of the series that 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.080 we're continuing today on Ancient Egyptian Curses. So if you 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.360 haven't heard that first episode, I would recommend going back 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.400 and listening to that first. You know, there are some 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.640 series where it makes more sense to listen out of order. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.360 But the last time we really did kind of lay 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.120 the groundwork for today, but for a brief refresher, we 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.400 talked about the general context of magic in ancient Egypt, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.680 with some main points being first of all, that to 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.400 the ancient Egyptians, there was not a clear distinction between 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.160 magic and religion like we see in some other religious 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:08.400 and cultural settings. In ancient Egypt, the use of magic 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:14.080 spells and temple based religion were fully interwoven and practiced 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.640 by the same priests and authorities, and in fact, magic 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.159 power and magic spells were a fundamental part of the 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.719 regular public rights performed in Egyptian temples, So magic was 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:30.000 sort of part of everything, and even the gods needed it. Also, 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.880 we talked about how the Egyptian concept of magical power 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:39.040 or heca, was not thought to be inherently good or evil, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.680 but was a morally neutral power that could be harnessed 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.680 to do all kinds of things, to protect or to harm, 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.080 to heal, or to destroy. And we talked about the 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.280 sometimes almost litigious or legal framing in which many ancient 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.680 Egyptians seemed to think about magic. Magic could be a 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:03.000 way of initiating supernatural legal proceedings. We also talked about 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.159 a few particular curse texts, a lot of great stuff 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.679 about you know, if you do something bad in this tomb, 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.239 going to wring your neck like a goose, all that stuff, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.560 And we also talked in general about kind of the 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.800 main categories of curses that you find in ancient Egypt. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.840 Of course, ancient Egypt spans thousands of years and many 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:28.000 millions of lives, so it's actually a quite varied historical 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.039 period to talk about. You can't capture everything just in 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.600 a little overview, But the main trends we talked about were, 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.159 first of all, personal curses. These would be the more 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.320 common kind of curses you would think about if you're 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.400 thinking in a you know, Christian witchcraft kind of framework. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.680 These would be where people magically settled scores with enemies 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.400 and with people who they believed had wronged them or 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:56.120 were oppressing them. There were quite famously funerary curses, usually 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.359 leveled against anyone who would loot, to disturb or defile 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:04.080 a tomb. There were political curses performed as these execration 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.720 rituals to bind, weaken, and destroy enemies of the king 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.159 and of the state. So this could include you know, 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.919 rebels and the leaders of revolts, people the king perceived 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.520 as political traders, princes of enemy nations, and so forth. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.039 I'll talk about an example of this in just a bit, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.800 but you might write their name on a clay vessel 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.200 or otherwise somehow symbolically link them to an effigy and 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.120 then destroy that effigy to magically curse the person or 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.240 the parties. And then finally you would have these religious 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.400 or cosmic curses. This is very interesting because I don't know, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.799 in the more modern religious context, we often think about 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:48.160 what happens with supernatural energies that's sort of beyond our intervention, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.920 you know, we're subject to them, they're not subject to us. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.719 But this, in fact, like we talked about last time, 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.240 was kind of like a curse. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:57.440 The devil phenomenon. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.760 Like in the Egyptian context, cosmic curses were designed to 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.440 sustain the balance of order in the world and to 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.720 magically help the gods of order defeat the bad gods, 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.320 you know, the forces of chaos, like the serpent, apep 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:17.720 or Apophice. And so we're back today to discuss more. Now, Rob, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.560 let's see, we've got a couple of things we want 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.720 to get into today. We do want to talk us 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.480 in some more specifics about famous tomb curses or alleged 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.800 tomb curses. But before we do that, do you want 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.160 to talk about this idea of threats to the reader? 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.080 Yes, yeah, this this You were talking a little bit 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:36.880 about this the other day, and of course it instantly 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:38.560 brought to mind things like the Ring. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:40.080 Yes, yes, I. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.560 Watch this video in your curse. Already watched the video. 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.360 There's no way on to do it. Yes, I'm excited 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:45.640 to hear. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.720 More so, when you think about a magical text that 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.720 inflicts the curse, you usually think about a named or 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.960 specified target, right, For example, these personal curses that would 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:01.600 often be directed toward a specific person and rival oppressor. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.120 Then you also have the cosmic, the religious curses we 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.160 talked about that were usually targeted at a named chaotic 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.320 deity again most often the serpent, apep or apophice. And 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.400 then you have these political curses that would certainly have 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.720 named enemies. In fact, sometimes the naming of enemies and 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.000 the political curses, that's like the majority of the text 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.360 we have, and that kind of makes sense with when 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.000 you imagine what the rituals were, right, like you'd write 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.760 the names on things and then destroy those things. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:30.360 Yeah. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:30.680 Yeah. 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.600 And also to come back to something we talked about 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:37.040 with tomb facilities in particular, there was often a duality 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.800 to the statement. It would only be like fifty percent curse. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.360 It would be like blessings upon you if you were here, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.880 you know, with good intentions, but curses upon you if 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.319 you are here with bad intentions. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:49.960 I want to get back to that in a minute, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:55.840 because there are interesting parallel dualities also, But coming back 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.160 to the idea of political curses just briefly, because I 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.280 am thinking about these names versus unnamed targets of curses. 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.520 I found one pretty extensive translation of a particular political 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:12.040 curse and execration liturgy from the Middle Kingdom, and this 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.839 was translated by the American egyptologist John A. Wilson, who 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.520 was a professor at the University of Chicago. He lived 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.160 eighteen ninety nine to nineteen seventy six. So these texts 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.840 originally come from materials that were held by the Berlin Museum. 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.959 The translation appears in a book called the Ancient Near East, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.120 an Anthology of Texts and Pictures, edited by Pritchard Princeton 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.120 University Press, originally published nineteen fifty eight. So the text 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:42.720 collection is called the Execration of Asiatic Princes, and in 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.120 this case that would refer to the rulers east of Egypt, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.800 primarily rulers and peoples in the levant. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.000 So again, the. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.520 Way these execration rituals worked is that the names of 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.320 the political enemies of Egypt and the enemies of the king, 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.240 you'd like inscribe them on a piece of pottery, and 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.800 then the pottery would be smashed, And then there were 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:04.920 other ways of destroying effigies too, but that seems to 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.440 be the main thing we're talking about here, smashing of 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:12.920 these clay vessels, because the names had magical connections to 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.280 their owners. This smashing, along with the ritual language, was 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.840 thought to weaken and harm these enemy leaders. And so 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.679 the fragments name the rulers. But they don't just name 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.360 the rulers. They're like, here's the ruler, here's where they're from, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.560 and then also make sure to get all their servants 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.760 and all their warriors, so you know, one example is 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.319 the ruler of enoch Roum and all the retainers who 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.360 are with him, the ruler of enoch Ahi Yamumu and 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.040 all the retainers who are with him, the ruler of 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.600 eanoch Akium and all the retainers who are with him, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.600 the ruler of Shootou and goes on like this, and 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.200 all the retainers and all the warriors and all his 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.520 strong men who fight. And so there are many examples 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.200 in this text in the book here that are just 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.280 naming princes, all their retainers, all the people who would 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.079 serve them, and then of course they would smash that 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.920 to destroy and weaken those people. But in addition, the 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.760 political execration also extends to what feels like a more 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:18.559 prophylactic format when it starts cursing potential internal enemies from Egypt, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:23.960 because there are fragments that specify all men, all people, 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.239 all folk, all males, all eunuchs, all women, all officials, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.840 who may rebel, who may plot, who may fight, who 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.800 may talk of fighting, who may talk of rebelling, and 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.760 every rebel who talks of rebelling in this entire land. 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.240 But this seems like they've got everybody. I don't see 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.080 too many categories that were left out. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.720 There, but it's funny that, Yeah, you would think not, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.760 but there's some general cleanup after this. 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.319 They also just say. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.880 Every evil word, every evil speech, every evil slander, every 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.760 evil thought, every evil plot, every evil fight, every evil quarrel, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.480 every evil plan, evil thing, all evil dreams, and all 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:03.320 evil slumber. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.440 Evil dreams. Can't help those come on. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:08.920 Yeah, I don't know what's going on there. But then 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.559 also there are some more texts that do name specific 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.560 traders and enemies within Egypt as well, Like there's this 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.560 one fragment that goes, AMENI shall die the tutor of 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.760 sit Bastet and the chancellor of sit hat Hoor, the 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:28.400 daughter of Nephru, and then just keeps naming people like that, 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:33.199 often like the tutors of women within the royal family. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.360 There's a footnote that says, we don't know exactly what 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.040 this is about, but it seems like it could be 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.000 attacking traders who were thought to be part of a 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:46.360 Harem conspiracy. So once again here we get these specific 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.160 targets of the curse. But of course, not all curses 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:54.960 that appear in Egyptian texts are targeted at named enemies. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.760 Some are more like a general security system that apply 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.400 to whom it may concern. And a big example here 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.560 that we've already talked about is tomb curses, often of 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.560 the format just generally I'm not quoting here, anyone who 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.760 enters this tomb with ill intent, or who steals from 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.480 or defaces this tomb will face penalties. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:16.760 You know. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.320 A common one is I will be judged with him, meaning, 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.160 in your paraphrase from last time, Rob, I'll see you 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:28.360 in ghost chord, yeah, And then often having a more 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.080 violent or specific threat as well, like I shall wring 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:32.720 his neck like a goose. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.640 Yeah, which, as we discussed last time, may tie into 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.079 like the sacrificial killing of birds and temples. So again 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:46.400 that kind of blurring of the line that modern individuals 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.760 might think would exist between like the wizard and the priest. 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.400 Yeah, there's one text I just found in an older 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.440 book I found on the Gutenberg project that was a 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.200 collection of translated to inscriptions. This one was from a 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:05.959 tomb that in this it's translated Aqueja ichi Uh, and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.040 it says it goes as follows the scribe in the 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.640 presence Ichi speaks with regard to any person who shall 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.559 take stones from this tomb of mine of the necropolis, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.400 I shall be judged with them on this matter by 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.760 the God. Okay, there you go, we see you and goescort. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.720 And then for I am an excellent ok who knows 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.120 his spells. So that's again like I've got the best 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:28.120 lawyers basically. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.840 Yeah, and again I think in many cases the god 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.280 is going to be Osiris, or it could be a 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:35.280 regional deity. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.680 A lot of these tombs that do make a threat, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.480 they invoke the power of Osiris. 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:40.880 Yeah. 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.800 But anyway, so on the subject of curses that that 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.200 function less like a targeted attack and more like a 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.240 general purpose security system, and have this to whom it 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.960 may concern energy, I wanted to talk about an interesting 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.240 curse format that I first came across in an academic 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:03.200 conference presentation. The American egyptologist Robert K. Rittner who lived 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:07.600 nineteen fifty three to twenty twenty one. The presentation is 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.880 from two thousand and three, and it is called an 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:15.360 eternal curse upon the reader of these lines. So, as 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.720 you can guess from the title, this is an Egyptian 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.320 curse phenomenon that feels like you'd be very at home 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.120 in a horror movie. It is a text that curses 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.640 the reader for the crime of reading it, or, in 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.600 Writtner's words quote an invocation for divine wrath directed not 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.280 against its primary victims, who are later damned by name, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.400 but against the accidental discoverer. 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.400 That's cold, and. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.320 I'm assuming this would be in like the ForWord off 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.200 set text and not like the epilog. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.000 Well, it's funny because I have one full text that 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.000 I could read in a minute where it happens at 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:52.720 the very end. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:53.760 What it's like. 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.640 By the way, if you read this, you also are cursed. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.000 Oh man. Now, before I get to that, I do brieve. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.680 Want to mention that the existence of this type of 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.960 curse is not the main point of Writtner's presentation, which 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.200 itself is pretty interesting, though a lot of it is 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.480 like linguistic stuff that was over my head, but it 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.880 is an interesting thing to read, so Writtener is more 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.120 focused on a few things. One is how this sort 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.000 of relates to stuff we talked about in Part one. Now, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.480 the distinction between divine and demonic power in ancient Egyptian 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.920 religious thought is not all that distinct, and the categories 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:38.000 often overlap, with the same deities or entities often being 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:43.320 invoked as protectors and healers or as supernatural knife bearers 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:47.600 and slaughtering demons. A major part of the presentation is 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.280 this linguistic argument that again was over my head, but 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.720 it was focused on the definition of a particular Egyptian 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.280 word which appears in a lot of legal, medical, and 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.960 magical teess some religious texts. In basically here, which written 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.680 or argues should be understood as a kind of divine compulsion. 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.760 This word, he's arguing, means a kind of seizing by 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.880 a god or divine power and compelling action in a way. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.879 And this could be good or evil, helpful or harmful, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.320 but the force by which a god or demon seizes 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.479 a human and forces them to act one way or another. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.119 This term often appears in what we think of as 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.320 tomb curses. So again, for example, the compulsion of Osiris 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.440 be on him who reads these words, his life will 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.399 be shortened. That sounds like standard curse stuff. You know 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.480 you are compulsion. You're seized by compulsion of a god, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.000 and here's your punishment. But it is not only used 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.639 with the meaning that the intruder will be you know, 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.359 seized by supernatural compulsion to prevent them from harming the tomb. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.600 There are also positive in vocations of this divine compulsion. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.000 Two for example, say that the reader of an inscription 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.040 or the person entering a tomb will be compelled by 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.040 divine force to do something to honor the dead, like 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.160 make an offering of water, or to do something else 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.879 on the tomb owner's behalf. So I found that pretty interesting. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.199 You would have these tomb inscriptions that say like, okay, 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.760 Osiris has seized you. You know, the god compels you. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.600 Now it could be like get out of here, or 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.800 you will be killed. It could also be you will 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.919 make an offering to the you know, the soul of 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:36.960 the person buried here. 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:43.520 Oh wow, that is fascinating. I'm sure Julian Jaye's devotees 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.359 have some fun with that. One, But in general, I 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.160 just I like the idea of that. It's like, it's 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.280 the positive side of that. It's like Osiris compels you here, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:54.720 you need to do the right thing in here. 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.800 But coming to the reader directed curse, one of the 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.040 most striking examples mentioned in Writtner's introduction, I think is 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.600 actually doubly striking, not only because it has this dynamic 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.520 where it curses the reader for reading, but because though 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.560 it is ancient Egyptian, it comes from very late from 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.720 the Coptic Christian Egyptian period, and so it seems to 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:23.879 be basically a form of Christian in its theology. So 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.399 it is a targeted personal curse invoking divine violence from 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:29.399 the Christian God. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:31.080 Fascinating. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.639 So the one I wanted to mention is a Ecoptic 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:38.040 Egyptian curse known as Papyrus Lechechev. I think I'm saying 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.680 that right, that this is from the fourth or fifth century. 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.840 I went and dug up the full text, as translated 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.840 by a scholar named Marvin Meyer, from a book called 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.840 Ancient Christian Magic Coptic Texts of Ritual Power. This is 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.399 text number ninety in this book, and it's called Curse 0:19:55.520 --> 0:20:00.320 against several violent people. Meyer summarizes it by saying, in 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.760 this papyrus, a victim similarly calls upon God in the 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.359 language of the courtroom, to bring judgment against several people 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.560 who have committed an act of violence. The closing lines 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.560 pronounce a curse upon anyone who opens and reads the papyrus. 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.480 So I'll give a few selections from the text, Lord, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.160 my God, to whom I look, who is seated upon 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.600 the chariot of the Cherubim, with the Seraphim round about you, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:30.000 who is mounted upon the four creatures Michael, Gabriel, the Archangel, Cherubim, 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:35.080 and Seraphim, Rabuel, Suruel, Cukuel, You who are seated upon 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.280 your throne and with your beloved son, along with all 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.720 those who have been named, and the place where this 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.919 will be deposited, and the Angel of the Church, You 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:49.960 must strike Pretasia and Tenunte and Ebenez quickly, deservedly. You 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.880 must hinder them as they have hindered him. You must 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.520 bring upon them the anger of your wrath and your 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.720 raised arm. As you cursed Samoa and Kimora through the 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.359 anger of your wrath. You must curse the one who 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.320 has committed this act of violence. You must bring the 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.560 vengeance of Enoch against them, as the blood of Abel 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.280 called out to Caine, his brother, the blood of this 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.800 miserable man will call out until you bring judgment on 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.520 his behalf against those who have committed this act of 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.960 violence against him. La loah, that is, Lord Sabba Oath. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.200 You must bring your wrath upon them in a disturbing way. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.000 You and who's in a disturbing way. You in whose 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.080 hands is every breath, who formed the world. You must 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.720 quickly overthrow the people who have committed this violence. Yeay, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.560 Lord Saba Oath, you must bring judgment on his behalf quickly, 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:45.399 and then on the verso it has finally, whoever opens 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.960 this papyrus and reads it what is written on it 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.040 will come upon him by the order of the Lord God. 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:57.399 But of note, you did not open the papyrus. You 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.840 merely read a translation. So I think, I think legally 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.280 you're in the clear here. But I am no ancient 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.320 Egyptian priest or wizard or copying priest or wizard. 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.120 I mean so interesting, I wish I knew more about 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.400 the exact flavor of early Christianity that this is working from. 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.399 I don't know, actually, for sure, but this sounds to 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.160 me like it it could be Gnostic influenced. I don't 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.280 want to say that I know that because I didn't 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.359 have time to look into that, but I would love 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.200 to go back and dig into that and figure out 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.520