1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. And today I 3 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: could not be more excited to talk about a person 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: who really dominated a lot of my childhood obsession and 5 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: it's sort of back in the media landscape right now, 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: and that person is none other than Tanya Harding. Do 7 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: you have any personal feelings about Tanya Harding. I have 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: this like vague recollection of Tanya Harding and the scandal 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: that was on the news in my home, you know, 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: playing on the television when we were kids. I really 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: was not super engrossed in it. But I think the 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: myth and the lore around the drama that unfolded between 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan has been played up so much. 14 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: She's really interesting to see it getting its cinematic credit now, 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: and with this new film that's coming out exactly I 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: should say right off the bat that I have not 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: seen Ititania the movie in theaters right now, starring Margot 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: roby Um, purposely because I didn't want the movie in 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: my head as I prepared for this episode. I wanted 20 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: to sort of go in fresh, and sometimes these movies 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: mixed fact and fiction and I wanted to be able 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: to have a good sense of what actually happened without 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: having the movie yeah get in my head. Although Margot 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: Roby is amazing and we should have a supporter because 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: that's actually awesome. Definitely, I am someone who has always 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: been drawn to women in public who get a lot 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: of scorn. I'm talking women like Tanya Harding. I'm talking 28 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: women like Yoko on No, I'm talking women like Courtney Love. 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: I've always been attracted to the women in media, in Hollywood, 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: in sports, who everyone seems to love to hate, and 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: I think it tells us so much about our culture 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: and how we think about gender and powerful women. Yes, 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: and Tanya Harding abs rebolutely fits the bill because she 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: was widely maligned, right, I mean, her reputation went into 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: the toilet, and many would say myself included for good reason, 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: because the scandal that we're about to recall for y'all 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: was a big one, was a doozy. However, like most realities, 38 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: it's more nuanced and complicated than you might think. And 39 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: it's not as simple as painting a woman like Tanya 40 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: Harding as this evil, calculating villain per se. When you 41 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: look closer at a lot of women who have been 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: maligned in the public eye, have been deemed hot messes, 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: are often victims themselves, and maybe they're not these evil, 44 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: calculating women who are deserving of all of that scorn. Definitely, 45 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: Even on Twitter, I saw a lot of chatter from 46 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: people who were outraged that the actual real life Tanya 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: Harding was invited to the Hollywood A List premiere of 48 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: Itania and said things like, why are we, you know, 49 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: she's a criminal, Why are we, you know, lauding her? 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: Why are she, you know, walking the red carpet? And 51 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: I thought, she, don't we do the same thing with 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: male criminals all the time. Didn't we make an entire 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: movie about mobster Henry Hill called good Fellas? Didn't we 54 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: make an entire movie about Jordan Belfort, Wolf of Wall Street. 55 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: It seems like to me, when a man is a 56 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: high profile, nefarious character, it's totally okay to tell their story, 57 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: It's totally okay to lauded them and to make them 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: into this anti hero that everybody kind of admires or likes. 59 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: But when it's a woman, it somehow seems like it's 60 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: not okay. Well, as much as I want to cheer 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: that on. I also feel like the simplicity of the 62 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: Tanya Harding visual, you know, this woman being behind the 63 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: takedown of another woman, lends itself in such a delicious 64 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: personal way to that old media trope that women are 65 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: out to get other women, and that, you know, it 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: became much more of an easily understood line than Wolf 67 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: of Wall Streets crimes and Henry Hill's crimes. You know 68 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: what I mean, That's definitely true, and this is actually 69 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: a good place to say. We have our series on 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: problematic faiths. I'm not saying that Tanya Harding is my 71 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: problematic faith. I am saying that a lot of my 72 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: friends might call me a Tanya Harding apologist. I'm someone 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: who will forever be pointing out the nuance that you 74 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: just said. Let me look back on her story, and 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: I think it's just important because as women, it's so 76 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: easy for our stories to lose nuance and turn into 77 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: that media trope of a devious woman took down uh 78 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: an innocent woman in a stake of gold and ice 79 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: skating glory, and all the nuance gets lost. And I 80 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: think it's so easy to turn women into punchlines. Even 81 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: if these women have been victims of violence, victims of abuse, 82 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: which Tanya Harding certainly was exactly. So keep an open mind. 83 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: Buckle up, y'all, because you're about to hear way more 84 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: about the Tanya Harding story than I certainly knew. And 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: then I think many people fully understand about this story, 86 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's why the show is important, because 87 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: we want to shed light on the nuance behind what 88 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: can sometimes be an oversimplified sexist telling of the China 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Harding story. So first, let's let's back up the second 90 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: bridget and just recap, like what exactly went down for 91 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: all of our gen Z folks out there here, Like 92 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: who the hell is Tanya Harding? For all of y'all 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: there who don't know who she is, Tanya Harding was 94 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: this very strong skater from Oregon. Now, people can say 95 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: a lot about Tanya Harding, but you cannot say she's 96 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: not an accomplished skater. She was the first female skater 97 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: at the US Championships to win the title, with the 98 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: events first ever six point oh given to a single 99 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: female skater for technical merit. She was the first woman 100 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: to ever complete a triple axel in the short program, 101 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: and she was the first woman to successfully execute to 102 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: triple axels in a single competition. She even went on 103 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: to be the first ever to complete a triple axel 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: combination with a double toe loop. So basically, if you're thinking, 105 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: what the heck was any of that mean, she's an 106 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: incredibly accomplished skater and her name is in the history 107 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: books with all of these firsts, and we're not sports journalists. 108 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: Just to reiterate, and even if you're like me and 109 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: you're like a triple what like what is that? Exactly? 110 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: Just know that her technical achievement in her domain, in 111 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: her athleticism was undeniable, and it's just back and she's 112 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: pushing the boundaries on what was even seen as possible 113 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: in her sport. And you've got to give credit where 114 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: credit is due. She was she was dominating. She was dominating. 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Even though Tanya Harding was clearly 116 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: a really, really good athlete, unfortunately, with like so much 117 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: of women's sports, it's about so much more than technical competence, 118 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: and so anyone would look at her and say she 119 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: was a great skater, but she had a hard time 120 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: because of a lot of other things. Because she didn't 121 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: have the body type many associated with being a professional skater. 122 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: She had very muscular thighs because her skating style was 123 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: often considered to be sort of fiery and athletics as 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: opposed to poised and graceful. And it's interesting how this 125 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: played out throughout the commentary of the way that she 126 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: rose to prominence. Enter Nancy Karragan. So, Nancy Karragan was 127 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: pretty much one of Tanya Harding's biggest competitors. Whereas Tanya 128 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Harding was sort of considered the girl from the wrong 129 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: side of the tracks, Nancy Karragan, despite also having working 130 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: class roots, was sort of presented as this poised, graceful 131 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: skater who was really a competitor of hers. And so 132 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen her main competitor, Nancy Karragan was attacked by 133 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: an assailant later identified as Shane stand after a practice 134 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: during the nineteen US Figure Skating Championships in Detroit. So 135 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: basically what happened is that Nancy Karrigan was walking out 136 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: the ice getting done with the practice. Somebody ran up 137 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: to her and yeah, she was no. No. So she 138 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: was skating on the ice, she was finishing up a practice. 139 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: She gets off the ice and this is actually all 140 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: on video. I don't think the actual attack is on video, 141 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: but the beginning, right before the attack and the aftermath 142 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: are all on video. Uh. She's getting off and somebody 143 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: runs up to her and it hits her in the 144 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: leg with what was later revealed to be one of 145 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: those at telescopic um battalions. And this was like an 146 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: iconic moment, one for young bridget but too. I think 147 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: in pop culture and sports in general, we all remember 148 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: that scene of Nancy Karragan clutching her leg and saying 149 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: why why why? So it turned out that her leg 150 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: was only bruised, not broken, but the injury did force 151 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: her to withdraw the national championship. What you said before 152 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: about this beings would have made for that kind of 153 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: narrative about a trashy girl the wrong side of the 154 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: tracks taking down America's sweetheart. I get it. That is 155 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: too juicy of a scoop to not exploit and exploit it. 156 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: The media did, as you might imagine. The entire thing 157 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: turned into a media frenzy, I think, the likes of 158 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: which skating has probably never seen before. For a hundred 159 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: members of the press jammed into their practice drink in 160 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: Norway and famous figure skater Scott Hamilton's complained that the 161 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: press world was turning the Olympics into another sensational tabloid event. 162 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: The tape delayed broadcast of the short program at the 163 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: Olympics remains one of the highest watched telecasts in American history. 164 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: This media frenzy also led to one of my favorite 165 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: Tandya Harding kind of blips in the whole scandal was 166 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: her wearing a sweatshirt that just said no comment because 167 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: so many press and reporters, including Connie Chung, what if 168 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: my media idols were hounding her day and night. So 169 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: the thing really turned into a huge, huge, just media frenzy, 170 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: and that no comment sweatshirt did not help Tanya Harding's 171 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: PR game whatsoever. But maybe PR training was never going 172 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: to be something that she was going to have access to, 173 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: because even that, I think plays into this idea of 174 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: her as this quote unquote like white trash person that 175 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: she didn't behave the way that you might expect someone 176 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: who was going through this media firestorm to behave. There's 177 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: a very famous interview where Tanya is asked about the 178 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: allegations that she had something to do with the Nancy 179 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: Karragan situation, and rather than having some line that she's 180 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: practiced or rehearse, she just gets up and ends the interview. 181 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: She's like, takes the wires off of her and it's like, 182 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: this interview is over. And it's not a surprise to 183 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: me that her inability to kind of play that media 184 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: game just made it her look so much worse. And 185 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: everyone who said, oh, she's trashy, she's she's that, they 186 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: were like, see, of course she's trashed. You look at 187 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: her sweatshirt. She didn't even she didn't even respectfully answer 188 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: that question. I mean, you have to understand her background, 189 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: to understand where she's coming from, and to understand how 190 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: this is not a story that could happen today, because 191 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: in the social media era, everyone has some pr savvy 192 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: and she just didn't. She was an athlete first and foremost. 193 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: This is a woman who, you know, despite being called 194 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: too macho and not fitting the graceful, poised, traditionally feminine, 195 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: beautiful gender role that she was supposed to uphold as 196 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: a figure skater, this is a woman whose mother had 197 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: been married. You know, take this or leave it as 198 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: you want. By the way, this is not us judging anything, 199 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: but this is for you to draw your own conclusions. 200 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: Her mother had been married six times to six different men, 201 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: or perhaps seven, depending on the journalists that you want 202 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: to listen to. She owned her first rifle, a twenty 203 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: two when she was still in kindergarten, which to me 204 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: sounds like an overstatement for sure. And reports say that 205 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: she had moved thirteen times by the fifth grade and 206 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: dropped out of high school at fifteen, even though in 207 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: fact she later obtained her g e d. She drank beer, 208 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: she played pool, she smoked even though she had asthma. 209 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: She raced cars at the Portland International Raceway. I mean, 210 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: to me, all of this about Tanya Harding makes the 211 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: fact that she was a record breaking Olympian even more 212 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: impressive to me. I mean, the things she overcame, the 213 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: privileges she did not have to go and become one 214 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: of the world's as figure skaters, to me makes her 215 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: even more astounding. But when juxtaposed with Nancy Karagan, the sweet, coy, innocent, 216 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: super feminine image of the perfect figure skater that sponsorships 217 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: would be falling over themselves to get on the cover 218 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: of their Wheaties box, it makes sense that they painted 219 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: her as this trashy nobody and discredited her even though 220 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: she had so much incredible athleticism going for her. Yes, 221 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: and I think that that's why so many people, myself included, 222 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: really rooted for her, even as it became more and 223 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: more apparent that she was involved with what happened to 224 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Karagan. And so I remember as a kid thinking, 225 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: it's nice to see somebody who doesn't come from privilege 226 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: and money, and again, keep in mind, neither did Nancy Karagan. 227 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: But the story that we were told was that she 228 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: rose above her sort of girl from the wrong side 229 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: of the tracks lifestyle to accomplish something great, and that 230 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: was something that I think a lot of folks saw 231 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: as inspirational. And I think even as the heat started 232 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: to rise around her when it became clear that her 233 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: husband responsible for this attack on Nancy Karrigan and that 234 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: maybe she knew about it or had a hand in 235 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: planning it. As that became more and more clear, I 236 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: think a lot of people, maybe even a young bridget Toad, 237 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: thought gee, it's just nice to see somebody like quote 238 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: unquote like us when and I think that that's why 239 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: so many people to this day have these tense and 240 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: complicated feelings around her, because honestly, not only is it 241 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: about gender, it's about class. I think that when you 242 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: see someone who is maligned for not having class markers. Again, 243 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: Nancy Karrigan also had a working class background, but she 244 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: somehow embodied a different kind of working class background, kind 245 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: of amor Yeah, And I think what you're saying is 246 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: the narrative is problematic despite the reality, because you know 247 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: what is problematic is a one taking a metal post 248 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: to Nancy Karrigan's leg Like that attack was not okay, obviously, 249 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: And I'm uncomfortable with too much qualifying in Tanya's defense 250 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: because no matter how crappy and upbringing she might have had, 251 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: no matter how much the media didn't give her a 252 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: fair shot, this was still a terrible thing that happened 253 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: to Nancy and it shouldn't have It was a crime, 254 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: It shouldn't have happened. So I don't know. I think 255 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: it's a weird. You're right, there's a lot of conflicting 256 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: feelings here because what happened was wrong and shouldn't have happened. 257 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: But the closer you look at it, instead of just 258 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: painting the narrative that the media portrayed, which was not 259 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: fair and how they portrayed Tanya Harding. The more nuance 260 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: been complicated, this story really becomes So this story gets 261 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: so much more complicated, which we're going to dive into 262 00:14:51,480 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: after this quick break and we're back. Now let's talk 263 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: through some of the aftermath of the Karagan attack in 264 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: the nineties. So basically, it later emerged that Carrigan's attacker 265 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: was Shane stand, a hit man hired by Harding's ex husband, 266 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: with whom she was back together with at the time. 267 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: So meanwhile, Tiny Harding is trying to prepare for the 268 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: Olympics and her ex but sort of on again off 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: again husband is going down for this crime. And it 270 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: was really controversial to begin with that Harding was allowed 271 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: to compete despite this ongoing investigation that was starting to 272 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: drag her in because during this ongoing investigation days leading 273 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: up to the Olympics that Harding is competing in, her 274 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: ex husband is starting to implicate her as part of 275 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: his plead bargain that he's starting to negotiate, you know, 276 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: he's going to testify against her, and that she knew 277 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: all about it. She signed off on it. She goes 278 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: on to place eighth in the Olympics, quite frankly not surprising. 279 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: I would not be in my fittest form if that's 280 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: what was going on in my life days leading up 281 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: to the Olympics. And Nancy Karragan, on the other hand, 282 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: rebounds from victimhood to win the silver medal. So these 283 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: are two teammates on the same team, the US figure 284 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: skating team. Tabloid's attention drama, I mean, it was delicious 285 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: as it gets as in terms of a personal Olympic story, 286 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: and Karagan goes on to place Meanwhile, telling your herding's 287 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: unraveling and her her life, her relationship and her implication 288 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: in this crime are really starting to drive the narrative forward. 289 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: Fun fact about Nancy Carrigan competing, she wore the same 290 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: dress that she was wearing when she was attacked in 291 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: that competition, which I always thought was so baller brilliant, 292 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: and it's like, I'm here, you don't get the best 293 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: of me. I'm here and I'm ready to do this. Also, 294 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: someone had some media training, Okay it really honestly, it 295 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: really comes down to one of them knowing how to 296 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: play the media game, and one of them just not well. Also, 297 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: one of them was a victim, right okay, but yeah, 298 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: she knew what she was innocent of a c also 299 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: that Eventually, Harding pleaded guilty to conspiring to hinder the 300 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: prosecution of the attackers. She was sentenced to three years 301 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: on probation, five hundred hours of community service, and one fine, 302 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: and was shipped of her national championship title. She became 303 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: completely excommunicated from the whole figure skating world. And frankly, 304 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: a lot of folks would say, rightfully, so it all 305 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: boils down to, in my opinion, like how you feel 306 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: about Tanya Harding and this huge excommunication that she got 307 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: from her sport, which she had remember broken records in 308 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: all boils down to how aware and how involved she 309 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: actually was in the crime that took place. And that's 310 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: where things get real interesting. That's where things get. Harry 311 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: based Lee, her ex husband, says, this was Tanya's idea. 312 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: I went along with it to help my wife get 313 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: her dream. Tanya Harding says, my ex husband was abusive. 314 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: He cooked this up as a scheme to make money 315 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: for himself, and he said if I didn't go along 316 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: with it, he would kill me. And I was afraid 317 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: of him. Now, bear in mind that the idea that 318 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: her ex husband was abusive is corroborated. She got a 319 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 1: restraining order against him. There's a flurry of nine one 320 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: one calls documenting the abuse this guy put her through. 321 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: And so the question is, do you believe Tanya Harding 322 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: or do you believe her abusive ex husband? And I think, 323 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I go back and forth. I 324 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, whether or not she knew, whether 325 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: or not she didn't, who knows, I don't know. But 326 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting the public's willingness to believe the 327 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: most salacious version of this story, to take a documented 328 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: abusive man at his word and say, oh, yes, it 329 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: was this female mastermind behind the entire thing. And so 330 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: while I'm not saying that she did or did not 331 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: know ahead of time, I'm saying I think that the 332 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: public eyes willingness to cast her as the mastermind so 333 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: quickly at the word of somebody who is has a 334 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: documented history of abusive behavior toward her says something about 335 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: our culture. It does, and it says what floated to 336 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: the surface in terms of the public story. Because honestly, 337 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: I had ambient awareness of this story, and I had 338 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: never heard until preparing for this episode that there was 339 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: any history of abuse or that there was any wrongdoing 340 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: between Tanya Harding and her ex husband. So when you 341 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: look closer, she really said nobody was coming to my rescue. 342 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: At the time, my coach didn't seem to care that 343 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: I was in an abusive relationship. My parents, my mother 344 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: didn't seem to believe me, even though she had evidence, 345 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,959 Speaker 1: even though she was seeking out support and help and 346 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: protection against this abusive partner of hers. But at the time, 347 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: even though this sounds completely ridiculous to us now, the 348 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: coaches and the folks who were really shaping the figure 349 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: skaters of the era in the early nineties, really in 350 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: the late eighties. We're very mindful of the media critique 351 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: that had little to do with the skating itself. It 352 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: was more about creating this image of America's sweetheart, and 353 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: that was an image that was very hard to piece 354 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: together for Tiny Harding to begin with, and they deemed 355 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: her less lovable if she was divorced at the time. Definitely, 356 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: and again, even though it sounds absurd to us now, 357 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: this wasn't even that long ago. It just goes to 358 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: show you how far we've come when it comes to 359 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: this issue. There's a really, really breathtaking long read and 360 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: The Believer magazine by Sarah Marshall that really kind of 361 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: sheds light on this. And again, I'm someone who followed 362 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: figure skating and I didn't know this. Marshal rights in 363 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: a sport where judges routinely gives skaters criticism on their 364 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: hair dues and costumes and ear rings and I make 365 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: up in teeth, a sport where to this day very 366 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: a few gay mail skaters can afford to be openly 367 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: gay and deal with the inevitable backlash not just in 368 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: the media but in their scores. In a sport or 369 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: women are sometimes rewarded more for sellibility than skill, and 370 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: a sport where gender roles are policed so rigidly on 371 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: and off the ice that Tanya Harding, a petite, blonde 372 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: white woman, was somehow butch enough to register as a 373 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: threat to skating femininity in a suport where all this 374 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: went on, and the fact that it was common knowledge 375 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: to the idea that the U s F s A 376 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: would attempt to control a skater's marital status is hardly implausible, 377 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: and again it just sounds like they were saying, Tanya, 378 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: if you want to have a shot at competing, you 379 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: need to be stable and married and make that happen. 380 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: And I feel so bad that it just seems like 381 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: the idea that she was in a controlling, abusive marriage 382 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: just fell by the wayside. Not just that the people 383 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: who were supposed to protect her, her mother, her coaches, 384 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: all of that, by society, I mean, the woman in 385 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: the nineties was a walking punch line. And you know what, 386 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: intimate partner of violence is not funny. One of the 387 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: things they say is that Jeff is the only guy 388 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: she ever dated, and so she went from living with 389 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: her mom, who she alleges was abusive and an alcoholic 390 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: who pushed her and saw her skating as a meal 391 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: ticket to another abusive person, the first guy she ever dated, 392 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: when she met when she was nineteen, and so she 393 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: talks about how it just set her up for abuse 394 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: as the norm in her life. Exactly she says, quote, 395 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: my mom hit me and she loved me. Jeff hits me, 396 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: he loves me. It's just the way life goes. And 397 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: this is in an interview. So in my mind, looking 398 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: back on this, story. It's much more complicated than Tanya Harding, 399 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: the ambitious athlete who would do anything to get ahead. 400 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: And it looks a lot more like Tanya Harding, victim 401 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: of abuse, who was so mismanaged, was not supported in 402 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: her career as a professional skater by her family, her 403 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: loved ones, or her coach and anyone else who should 404 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: have been there to help her through this scandal from 405 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: a pr perspective or from a legal perspective, and she 406 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: was out there on her own, even though she was 407 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: on this grand scale. She was just a young woman 408 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: trying to make her way in her sport and somehow 409 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: try to maintain the adoration of the American public while 410 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: her ex boyfriend potentially acted on his own or with 411 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: her consent, or with her constricted consent given the abuse 412 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: that she feared as retribution. It's complicated. It's complicated. But 413 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: that's why I think it's so important to revisit these stories, 414 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: because the way that the public treats women in the 415 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: public eye, I think tells us so much about gender, 416 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: about where we have common terms of feminism, about media, 417 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: about class, and I want to dive more into the 418 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: class intersections that play in this saga after a quick 419 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: break and we're back. And I think it's important to 420 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: point out the ways that this saga really makes an 421 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: interesting illustration of both gender and class. As we've talked 422 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: about a little bit before, Nancy Karagan did in fact 423 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: have working class roots, but she sort of seemed to 424 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: embody a kind of more wholesome working class sentiment. Well, 425 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: it's interesting. Amanda Hess wrote about this dichotomy for Slate 426 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: and really points out that despite their modest beginnings and 427 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: their comparable athleticism, when it came to monetizing their skills, 428 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: she writes, Karagan was skating on an elevated plane. So 429 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: both athletes emerged from working class backgrounds. Karagan was blessed 430 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: with patrician good looks and a sophisticated air that easily 431 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: courted corporate sponsorships and Hollywood attention. Quote Nancy looked like 432 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: she was wealthy. That's how the Boston Globe reporter John 433 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: Powers puts it in his documentary. So the way that 434 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Karagan was able to financially gain from her athleticism was 435 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: dramatically different than quote, white trash, sort of from the 436 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: wrong side of the tracks, dramatic Tanya Harding exactly, and 437 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: I think it just goes to show the ways that 438 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: when it comes to dealing with women in the public eye, 439 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: there's often these binaries or either Ron Madonna or a whore. 440 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: You're either good or bad, or either a vixen or innocent. 441 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: And I think nothing illustrates that quite like these two women. 442 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: You know, they're both these powerhouses of athleticism, but one 443 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: is treated as she has this open door to endorsements 444 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: and deals and financial success, the likes of which just 445 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: are not open to Tanya Harding, no matter how good 446 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: she is. And I think what's interesting is that in 447 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: that Amanda Hess article, she actually argues that if Tanya 448 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: Harding saw ice skating as her way out of poverty, 449 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: even if she had won the gold, that probably was 450 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: never going to happen because she just did not embody 451 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: the perceived class markers of the sport, so she would 452 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: always sort of be trying to prove her worth in 453 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: a way that Nancy Karriican just never had to do. 454 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: I think you even saw that not even that long ago, 455 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: when looking at someone like Serena Williams, who is this 456 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: powerhouse tennis athlete who still had to work twice as 457 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: hard to get endorsement deals when compared to somebody like 458 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: Maria Sharpova. And it's interesting the ways in which certain people, 459 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: because they don't fit the class or race markers that 460 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: we perceive as deserving of success, deserving of endorsements, have 461 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: to work twice as hard just to prove they belong. Yeah, 462 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: and I think it's important to acknowledge the difference between 463 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: your sport and the corporate component, because the corporate sponsorships 464 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: are how a lot of these athletes make real money. 465 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: Tony Hardy was not doing all that well financially, even 466 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: when she was kicking ass athletically. At one point in 467 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: this documentary, Tony Harding were called wearing this bright pink 468 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: costume to a competition, a costume that she had actually 469 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: sown herself, and she thought it was really pretty, but 470 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: one of the judges came up to her afterwards and said, 471 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: if you ever wear anything like that again at a 472 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: US Championship, you will never do another one, saying like 473 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: you look like garbage basically despite your athleticism being pristine. 474 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: She shot back of the judges that unless and until 475 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: they give her five grand to buy a designer outfit 476 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: you can get out of her face, you know. And meanwhile, 477 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: Karagan had free costumes coming her way from Vera Wang 478 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: because she was sponsored. I mean, if that doesn't demonstrate 479 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: the different world these women were competing in, I don't 480 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: know what does. Tanya Harding was making her own outfits 481 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: allow pretty in pink. It really is fascinating how these 482 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: two women's lives and the way the media and the 483 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: industry treated them to show us so much about class 484 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: and how it doesn't really matter what your background is 485 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: and a kind of way if you're if you look 486 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: like someone who was born into it, you're born into it, 487 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: and if you aren't, you're always outside looking in. As 488 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: a brand, as a business owner, I wouldn't want to 489 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: put my brand in the hands of Tanya Harding. I mean, 490 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: you look at Tanya Harding and you think, yeah, she's amazing, 491 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: she's fiery, she's athletic, But is she going to be 492 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: a good brand ambassador? And you know what, as a 493 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: business owner, as someone who might you know, seek out 494 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: sponsorships and ambassadors, I would understand that Wariness. It's not 495 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: fair given her lack of compensation. Frankly, it kind of 496 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: reminds me of the women's hockey team, because we sometimes 497 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: assume that people get paid for the athletics, and that's 498 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: not always the case. So it's just it's this weird 499 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: mix between the corporate sponsorship world that is by no 500 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: means based on athletic achievement alone, and the world of athletics, 501 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: which can sometimes include women who are trying to come 502 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: up for their family and are trying to seek out 503 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: this American dream and failing to pass as sponsorable. It's 504 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: often tempting to pretend that class and looks and gender 505 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,479 Speaker 1: that like, when you make it, you're making it on 506 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: your own. But this is just a good reminder that 507 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: all of these different privileges come into play when you're 508 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: trying to be successful, and we should own up to 509 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: We should just own that it's a reality. And I 510 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: think that nothing made it clearer to me than this 511 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: situation between these two women. Yeah, because the dichotomy was 512 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: bizarrely stark. Okay, we already discussed a little bit of 513 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: Tanya Harding's background, but can we just contrast that with 514 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: the anti garrigan for a second. She embodied this wholesome 515 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: way of life that a lot of folks in the 516 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: nineties were starting to fret was disappearing. I think it's 517 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: like this is the emergence of the religious right too. 518 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: Write so from a political standpoint, or in a part 519 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: of American politics where it's like the rise of this 520 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: religious right is backlash to skyrocketing divorce rates. You know, 521 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: things that threatn the American nuclear family were already causing 522 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: anxiety for a lot of conservatives and a lot of 523 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: people in America were at large. And so when you 524 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: get to see Nancy Krragan's background, who let's see, she 525 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: has a gruff but devoted father, she has a blind 526 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: mother who's tough as nails and Southy inflected voice was 527 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: softened only when she spoke of her daughter and these 528 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: two boisterous hockey playing older brothers. The whole family was 529 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: just easy to love. When her mother was interviewed for 530 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: The New York Times, she recalled Nancy Karragan's reluctance to 531 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: go back to the Olympic village with the other athletes. 532 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: Quote she asked if it was okay. Of course it 533 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: was okay. This is her time to be with the 534 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: other kids. Nancy is always so apologetic. I don't want 535 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: to say she's a perfect child, but she's a caring 536 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: child who loves family. Yeah, she loves family because as 537 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: the twenty two year old baby of her family, she 538 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: still lived with her parents, and when they traveled to competition, 539 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: she shared a hotel room where her parents. She quote, 540 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: didn't have much time for friends or dating, and didn't 541 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: seem to have much interest in either, describing her mother 542 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: as her best friend. It's like almost out of like 543 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: a rockwell painting. They really did represent this wholesome, bygone 544 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: way of life. Again, quoting from that article from The Believer, 545 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: Listen to this, Nancy's mounting success was a victory not 546 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: just for her or even for the Carrigan's, but for 547 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: a way of life Americans feared was fast shrinking, that 548 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: of the wholesome, hard scrabble working class clan. One network 549 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: profile showed Nancy brushing her mother's hair. Another showed the 550 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: Carrigan family seated her on the dinner table, toasting each 551 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: other with glasses of milk. And it's again, I remember 552 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: feeling this before I even knew anything about class and 553 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: intersections of race, class gender. I remember watching her family 554 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: toast with milk, not identifying with that, and thinking it 555 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: felt so different, and understanding even then that this was 556 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: a way of life that a lot of people in 557 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: the country yearned for, and that her winning was a 558 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: win for that kind of life, and that the way 559 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: that we demonized Tanya Harding, on the other hand, was 560 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: a reminder that if you are poor, not just poor, 561 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,719 Speaker 1: but a specific kind of poor, like trashy poor, if 562 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: you don't look a certain way, if your way isn't 563 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: a certain way, if your family is divorced and you 564 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: have some complicated backstory where you've got multiple husbands and 565 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: multiple step kids, like the way that a whole lot 566 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: of folks were living their lives. I understood this to 567 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: be that society was telling us that that was wrong, 568 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: and that with the Carrigan's embodied was right. So there 569 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: was a right way and a wrong way to be 570 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: working class, and the Carrogans were the right way, and 571 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,479 Speaker 1: Tanya Harding was the wrong way. And I think you 572 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: really see that in the way that the media breathlessly 573 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: reported all of these details about Tanya Harding's upbringing in 574 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: her life. I mean, they seemed to take so much 575 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: joy in reporting about her mother's multiple husbands and that 576 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: she was a smoker, and that she worked don cars, 577 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: that she had frizzy hair, that she had muscular thighs, 578 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: that she didn't look a certain way, and that she 579 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: had legal problems and played pool like. It was this 580 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: breathless media frenzy that was careful to remind us of 581 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: the ways in which she was working class in all 582 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: the wrong ways. And I think that's why I really 583 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: identified with her, because I grew up feeling a similar 584 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: way that I grew up feeling completely boxed out of 585 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: this upper middle class, mobility, wholesome life that I think 586 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: that Nancy Garrigan represented for a lot of people. And 587 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: that is why this nuance is important to understand, because honestly, 588 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: I can see where you would become uh Tanya Harding apologist. 589 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: I can see where it makes sense to come to 590 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: the defense of Chinya Harding, not only because of the 591 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: actual abuse and the context with which she was not 592 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: necessarily making unconstrained choices at that time, but in the 593 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: media narrative, which is a different thing. We can critique 594 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: the media narrative and say this is wrong, well, also 595 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: saying that the crime committed against Nancy Karragan was also wrong. 596 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 1: But I think you're right, the press narrative, the media 597 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: narrative says a lot more about us than it does 598 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: about what happened in that fateful day. Definitely, and is 599 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: to take It's super clear these are these are narratives 600 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: that I think had been put on these women, And 601 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: so I don't want to say, oh, Nancy Karragan had 602 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: it coming because she had a stable family, and like, 603 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: good for her. I'm glad she got hit in the knee, 604 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that oftentimes, when you 605 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: were a woman in the public eye, media narratives form 606 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: around you and they have very little to do with 607 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: the reality of your life. And I think that Nancy Karragan, 608 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: through no fault of her own, was put on this 609 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: pedestal as America's sweetheart. Are Little Nancy so poised and 610 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: graceful and hard working, like something out of Horatio Alger 611 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: And I think, like you said, Taylor Swift style, that's 612 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: the narrative she probably very much would like to have 613 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: been excluded from. But it was still the narrative that 614 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: I saw, and it was really really something that so 615 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 1: formative in my understanding of class. A lot of people 616 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: say that the first time they ever understood the idea 617 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: of like class markers was watching the way the media 618 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,919 Speaker 1: talked about these two different women. And I also would 619 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: be remiss to not mention that Nancy Karrigan, even though 620 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: she was sort of upheld as America's sweetheart, even she 621 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: after this whole thing went down, was not immune to 622 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: the system that builds up women just to swipe them down. 623 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: After all that she went through when she took home 624 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: the silver, the thing that I remember most was that 625 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: I almost felt like the narrative shifted and we were 626 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: supposed to be annoyed by her, Like I remember there 627 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: was a video of her um at Disney World. She's 628 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: wearing the metal, She's sitting next to Mickey Mouse. She's 629 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: supposed to be like waving to the crowd, and she's 630 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: she's must be like grouchy or something, and she keeps saying, 631 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: over and over again, this is the most corny thing 632 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: I've ever done. This is so corny. And here's how 633 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: one news program covered it. Carrigan even had to be 634 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: coached to smile. Now listen carefully to the off camera 635 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: voy ice that has to tell her to smile, honey, 636 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: during a parade, Karagan complained to Mickey Mouse, it's so corny, 637 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: so dumb. I hate it. It looks like Disney has 638 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: a frosty ice princess on their hands. Oh my gosh, 639 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: I was so much worse than I remembered. So really, 640 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: this was someone who have been through so much, and 641 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: we rallied around her as this, you know, America's sweetheart, 642 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: just to knock her off this platform as gleefully as 643 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: you put her up there. And I think it just 644 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: goes to show you that it doesn't matter if you're 645 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: a madanda or a whore, or classy or trashy. At 646 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: the end of the day, the system that upholds you 647 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: one minute will swipe you down gleefully the next and 648 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: call you an ice princess. I mean that guy basically 649 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: was like what a can you? Can you believe this girl? 650 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, she's been through a lot, come on, 651 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: and like I would be gratty too. I think this 652 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: is the So what of the story is that we expect, 653 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: particularly women to play so many different games to get ahead, 654 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: and so you know, she's an athlete, but she also 655 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,959 Speaker 1: has to know how to smile, you know how to wave, 656 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: know how to look gracious and how to look poised, 657 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: and if she doesn't, the moment that she slips up, 658 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: we're done with her right the moment, because she had 659 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: embodied that grace and poise for so long. They contrasted 660 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: her with Tanya Harding. But it doesn't matter. She can't wait. 661 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: She's not perfect all the time. You're so right and 662 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 1: that as women, the moment that we fail to play 663 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: this game, they're waiting gleefully to show, Oh, look what 664 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: I stuck up? Little ice queen she is. Can you 665 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: believe we called her America's sweetheart? All right? So hopefully 666 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: we've unpacked all there is to unpack. Behind the Tanya 667 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: Harding Nancy Karragan nineties drama that unfolded, we want to 668 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: hear from you, sminty listeners. Did you go check out 669 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: the film I Tanya with Margot Robi? Do you similar 670 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: really remember a young you? Just like a young bridget 671 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: over here was influenced by that dichotomy that played out 672 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: in the media. What do you think about athletes and 673 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: sponsorships and how those two things are not always fairly 674 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: executed in the world, especially of women's sports. We want 675 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: to hear from you If you want to tag us 676 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: in some Nancy Carragan Tanya Harding inspired outfits, you can 677 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: tag us on Instagram at stuff I'm Ever Told You, 678 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: tweeted us at mom Stuff podcast, or send us a 679 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email at mom Stuff at how stuff 680 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: works dot com