1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know. A production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you should know, 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: A good old history edition, if you ask me, by goodness, 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: History of the World Part two. I don't think I 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: saw that since I was maybe eight, and at the time, 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: I was like, I have no idea what's going on 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: or why people think this is funny? Yeah, well that 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: was part one. Part two is out now. Oh really. Yeah, 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: We're not getting paid for this, but I'll plug the 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: heck out of it. It's on Hulu and they waited, 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, to like a forty year in the making 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: sequel that they did as a TV show with mel 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: Brooks executive producing and narrating. But it's like some of 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: the great minds and comedy out there doing you know, 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: history sketches. Is Michael Fossbender in it? I don't think so. 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: Is he was great comedy minds? I think so. It's 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: really funny, though, like genuinely laugh out loud funny. Yeah. 19 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: I gotta check it out because those things are rare 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: and few and far between. Yeah, it's good stuff, you know, sketch. 21 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: So not everything is perfect, but it's I found myself 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: laughing quite a bit so far. I've seen three of them. 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: I think, Okay, it's on Hulu. It's on Hulu. And 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: what happens if you don't have Hulu? Did you just 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: go subscribe? I don't know how you can watch it. 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: I think you just go subscribe to Hulu, is what 27 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. Oh, sure, but this sounds like 28 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: an ad for Hulu. I don't know about TV shows. 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: You can just go out and buy a show, right, Sure, 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: you want to buy whatever you want. It's the twenty 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: first century, right, Should we talk about the Bronze Age. Yeah, 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: let's go back a few centuries, a few millennia actually 33 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: to the Bronze Age. Great Age. It was. It was 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: a great age. It was actually the first grade Age. 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: I think most people are familiar with the term Bronze Age, 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: but they might not know, like, just how amazing an 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: age it really was, like just I poppingly amazing frankly 38 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: if you think of it. Yeah, and it was specifically 39 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: wedged between the Stone Age, which stones worked great for 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: millions of years for a lot of things. Yeah, Bronze 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: came along and then was followed by the Iron Age 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: where we were plunged into the Dark Ages. Yeah, but 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: we're talking what thirty three hundred BC to about twelve 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: hundred BC, a little over a thousand years. Yeah, and 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: it had a lot to do with the Bronze which 46 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: we'll talk about, but also just advances and almost everything 47 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: you can think of, Yeah, art, architecture, politics, diplomacy, technology, religion, war, 48 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: virsion of science. Yeah, the early sciences, early astronomy and math, writing, 49 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: all of this stuff was born during this thousand years 50 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: stretch of the Bronze Age. And again, like you might say, 51 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: well a thousand years, of course, you could have been 52 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: all that in a thousand years, But think about it. 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: We were around for tens of thousands of years as 54 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: modern humans and millions of years as hominids of some 55 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: sort or another up to that point, and then all 56 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: of a sudden boom, civilization just develops out of nowhere, 57 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: and it was in large part because of bronze itself, 58 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: not just that Bronze tools are way better than stone tools. 59 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: They're more easily sharpened, you can fashion them more easily, 60 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: you can recycle them, so when they get busted up, 61 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: you can re smelt them and make it brand new again. 62 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: That's a huge advance in technology. But the actual bronze itself, 63 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: in a really roundabout but also pretty direct way, wove 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: people together in ways that they never had been before. 65 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: That led to civilization. Yeah, it's really cool how the 66 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: discovery of metallurgy just changed so much in a very 67 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the big picture, a 68 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: very short amount of time. Yeah, so there were If 69 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: you want to make brons, you take copper and you 70 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: take a little bit of tin is usually the alloy 71 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: that makes bronze, and you smash them together with your 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: hands over the course of fifteen years, and then dam 73 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: you have bronze. So you well know you melt him. 74 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: You smelled him, and who smelt it? Delt it? Right, 75 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: that's right. And you have bronze and you can fashion 76 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: it into tools. But to get copper and tin together 77 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: you have to go to all sorts of different places. 78 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: In the Mediterranean. You have plenty of copper, say on 79 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: Cyprus that was a copper mining center, but then if 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: you wanted tin, you had to go a couple thousand miles, 81 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: a few thousand kilometers to the east, if I'm mistaken, 82 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: to the east to Afghanistan, which was a tin center, 83 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: and to get that tin and that copper together you 84 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: had to create really extensive trade networks. You had to 85 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: go through one land to another, so you had to 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: make friends or make enemies with those people, and all 87 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: of these new relationships developed just to get the component 88 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: to make bronze together, and that that formed the basis 89 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: of all the stuff that seemed to follow. Yeah, and 90 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: we'll talk about the warring. There was certainly that, but 91 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: there was also a lot of cooperation because everyone wanted 92 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: to get their hands on that sweet bronze, and they're like, hey, 93 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: if you want to play with the big fellas, then 94 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: maybe become part of this trade route, allow us to 95 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: go through your area with the tin or whatever, or 96 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: maybe you have something that we need other than just 97 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: you know, being on the way. But there's a lot 98 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: of cooperation involved too as far as the bronze. What 99 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: that led to ultimately was better. And this is the 100 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: sort of the cascading effect that a simple not simple, 101 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: but a discovery like this can have is or make 102 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: is better farming techniques. And you might think, well, great, 103 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: so you could farm better but that means you could 104 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: farm bigger, and that means you could support more people, 105 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: and that means you could get a civilization going. And 106 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: because you had before, you previously had a situation where like, hey, listen, 107 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: everyone's got a hunt and gather, and then later later on, 108 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: everyone's got a farm because we just can't support ourselves 109 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: unless everyone's kind of in on this. Right now, they 110 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,559 Speaker 1: had more sophisticated techniques, so fewer people had to farm 111 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: to support more people even and that freed up people 112 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: who were good at other stuff to do other stuff. 113 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: So that's the cascading effect that you were sort of 114 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: alluding to, where like this one thing led to farming, 115 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: better farming, but that better farming led to division of 116 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: labor where it's like, hey, I'm really good at science. 117 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: Hey I'm really good. I'm a really good writer. But 118 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: everyone always said, don't waste your time writing because we 119 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: need you farming. Right it's brand new. It might not 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: stick around. It could just be a fad, this writing thing. 121 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: It might just go away. So yeah, and with that 122 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: division of labor, the writers can write, the math, people 123 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: can figure out math. The farmers can farm and feed everybody. 124 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: And then one of the other big pillars of support 125 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: for this division of labor that allowed it to blossom 126 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: was centralized governments that said, farmers, we're in charge of you. 127 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: Make x amount of grain and bring it to this 128 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: central place. Everybody else come to this central place and 129 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: get your grain. We're taking care of you. We're feeding you. 130 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: So you guys can go off and concentrate on this 131 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: other stuff and help civilization flourish. So government is a huge, sweeping, bureaucratic, 132 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: hierarchical entity. Really got established in the Bronze Age as well, 133 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: just because there were so many people being strung together 134 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: again in the service of creating bronze Yeah, and hey, 135 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: while you're at it, enslave people, why don't you build 136 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: huge statues of me and big monuments of myself as 137 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: the leader of you. So that's kind of what happened, 138 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, the establishment of government from the very beginning 139 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: sort of gaveth and took it away, gaveth and that 140 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: all the things you were saying, which was great about 141 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: organizing large groups of people, but took of the way 142 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: because every civilization was built on the backs of enslaved people, 143 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: and if not enslaved, at the very least they established 144 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: a real kind of like never before, a real hierarchy 145 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: of high I'm in charge and you're not, so you 146 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: don't matter as much. Yeah, that's that was definitely new. 147 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: I mean you always had things like you know, shaman 148 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: or some sort of like probably group leader, elders or 149 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: something like that, right for a hunter gatherer bands, but 150 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: nothing like this where you didn't even come close to 151 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: to talking to or knowing personally the person who was 152 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: your your ultimate leader. Like that was brand new. And 153 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: what's interesting, Chuck, as you said, you know, kind of 154 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: for better for worse about the government emerging. You can 155 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: really see how you feel about today's world by how 156 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: you in purpet what was born and what happened during 157 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: the Bronze Age. It's like look in a highly polished 158 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: bronze mirror. Basically, it's really interesting what reflects back, and 159 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: it's not always cut and dried, like I have certain 160 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: feelings about, you know, topics like government or whatever. But 161 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: I also in looking back a few thousand years, it's 162 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: also easy to see the other side's opinion because they're 163 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: not all up in my face. They're several thousand years old, 164 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: and I can kind of now understand contemporary people's feelings 165 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: about say government or something as well. I think that's 166 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: just fascinating. That's ultimately why history is so important, because 167 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: you really do learn lessons from it. You can, like 168 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: humans are not We like to think we're super advanced 169 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: compared to you know, the people of a few thousand 170 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: years ago, but we're still basically the same humans that 171 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: we were back during the Bronze agents, So there is 172 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: a lot to learn. I agree. You know, we mentioned 173 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: that there was worrying obviously, when you're going to get 174 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: bigger groups of people together and government's ruling those people 175 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: and they're in close proximity to one another, you know, 176 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: neighbored right up to each other, there's gonna be people 177 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: that don't get along, and there is obviously going to 178 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: be warring. But like we mentioned, there was also a 179 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: lot of diplomacy and there was a very sort of 180 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: golden age of this Golden age kind of square in 181 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the middle, where things were cruising along really, really nicely. 182 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: I think these sort of looking back at it, it 183 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: seems like the beginnings of a big, grand transition like this, 184 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: things can be rough, and as we'll see at the end, 185 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: given that it basically collapsed. It's obviously rough, but there 186 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: was a time in the middle there where things were 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: going pretty great. Yeah, Yeah, it's true. It's that middle 188 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: Bronze Age prosperity. And it actually kind of underscores the 189 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: idea that when you bring a lot of people together 190 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: you can do amazing, momentous things. But if you bring 191 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of diverse people together, you've got a lot 192 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: of different attribute ut different contributions from different groups and opinions. Yeah, 193 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: and opinions and affluence and prosperity can really follow when 194 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: people of diverse backgrounds interact with one another on large scales. Amen, 195 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. Should we take a break. Sure, it's 196 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: kind of an early break, but it feels like a 197 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: good stopping point. And maybe when we come back, we'll 198 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: talk about the Big Eight. All right, I tease the 199 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: Big Eight. We're talking about the Big Eight areas societies 200 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: that dominated the Bronze Age, and they are not This 201 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: is not an order of influence or preference, even alphabetical, 202 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: it's not any This is just randomly assimilated, okay, or assembled. 203 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: Egyptians not bad, actually hit and as we'll see, the Egyptians, 204 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: they didn't completely go away. They got punched in the 205 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: face during the Bronze Age collapse, but they stuck around Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, Cypriots, Minoans, Mycinians, Assyrians, 206 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: and rounding out the top eight, everyone's favorite, the Babylonians. 207 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: And this is like, not all of these groups were 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: dominant at one time at the same time. Yeah, some 209 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: were dominant at one time or another, like the Minoans 210 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: were the civilization that predated the Mycinians right so um 211 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: by quite several hundred years, if not longer, but each 212 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: one dominated. They both controlled crete while they were in charge. 213 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: And if you look at these these groups, to a 214 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: lot of them are I mean, I guess you'd call 215 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: them famous, Like the Babylonians pretty famous, the Manoans famous 216 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: that um, the Egyptians super duper famous. Yeah, white famous. 217 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: And this was the this these were the groups that 218 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: created the beginning of history, Like this was the time 219 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: when the pyramids at Giza were built, or when the 220 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,599 Speaker 1: Epic of Gilgamesh was written and the Code of Hammurabi 221 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: was encoded. This is when Pharaoh's like two to common 222 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: and Ramesy's the second ruled Like this was big deal 223 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: capital h history that was being produced at this time. UM, 224 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: and it seems to have all kind of started with 225 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: the um. The Sumerians. They seem to be the ones 226 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: who like kicked the whole thing off. Yeah, and we 227 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: should mention too that all of those groups that we 228 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: named had subgroups, a lot of Itites, you want to 229 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: tell him, some ess amrites h Gergeshites, that's my favorite. 230 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: And these were all all groups, and they even had subgroups, 231 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, under these umbrella terms like Canaanites. But Sumerians, 232 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: like you said, came first. They said, hey, you like irrigation, 233 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: what do you think about this? Canal right, what do 234 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: you think about this zigarrette? What do you think about 235 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: writing things down? And now we can keep track of 236 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: inventories and things like that, and log books and money 237 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: or like you mentioned the Epic of Gilgamesh, great read 238 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: ye've known as the first work of literature. But what 239 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: you also had because of this invention of writing was 240 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: other cultures writing, and in a way that sort of 241 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: helps corroborate what's going on. When you have different cultures 242 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: writing about things that that track or check check one another, 243 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: then you sort of get a better picture of what's 244 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: happening well. Plus, also, when you have these diverse cultures 245 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: that have different systems of writing and language, when they 246 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: communicate with one another, they're often writing in two different language. 247 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: So later historians, once you crack one language, you can 248 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: use that to crack like let's say you cracked hieroglyphics, 249 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: you can use hieroglyphics to now crack linear B, which 250 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: was I think out of crete if I'm not mistaken. 251 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: And if you crack linear B, well wait a minute, 252 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: they used linear B to write this cuneiform or cuneiform, 253 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: so we can crack that now too. So like almost 254 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: all tablets written during this time, we're in multiple languages, 255 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: so each one's like a Rosetta stone. Yeah, it's really neat. 256 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: That is super cool. So everything's going great. People are trading, 257 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: people are thriving, people are farming like never before, and 258 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: all these advances are happening and then boom, almost for 259 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: the most part, everything stopped. Most of that development and 260 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: almost all of those major civilizations kind of just went away, 261 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: and like we said, the Iron Age came along. Looking now, 262 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: my friend, I think this would have been the best 263 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: place for a break. Sure, but it screwed that up. 264 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: So we'll just dive right into what might have happened. 265 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: The data the collapse is generally given as eleven sixty 266 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: seven BC, but it's obviously not the kind of thing 267 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: that happens overnight. I think it They generally now agree 268 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: that it happened over the course of what thirty or 269 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: forty years? Yeah, I think from about twelve hundred to 270 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: eleven fifty, which I mean, if you're living through that, 271 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: it's fifty years at the time of lifetime, probably a lifetime, 272 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: but looking back historically, it's like the blink of an eye. Yeah, 273 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: and in a blink of an eye, things like when 274 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: we talk about collapse, it was it was a pretty 275 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: start collapse, like there was there's evidence of lots of disturbance, 276 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: lots of upset in that region. And we'll get into 277 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: everything that happened. I mean, we talked about the warring 278 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: people really started warring, and when certain civilizations might have 279 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: fallen out of power, that created a vacuum there where 280 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: a new civilization would come in and all of these 281 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: civilizations kind of going away. I believe it was like 282 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: Sparta and Athens were the next to come along. To 283 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: really kind of kick off the next Golden Age, right, Yeah, 284 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: several hundred years later, and in between there was what 285 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: you would call a dark Age, the Iron Age, which 286 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: iron is preferable to bronze in some ways and that 287 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: it can be harder, I believe, but bronze doesn't rust. 288 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: So people typically look at the Iron Age, the transition 289 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: from the Bronze Age into the Iron Age as a 290 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: step backward, a dark age. And it came from this 291 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: collapse what's called the Late Bronze Age collapse where you know, 292 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: you said that they really started boring and cities were 293 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: sacked and burned. Cities have been like sacked before and 294 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: burned before, but they were rebuilt during this age of prosperity. 295 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: This time, after the Late Bronze Age collapse from twelve 296 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: hundred to eleven fifty, they weren't rebuilt. They were left 297 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: in ruins and rubble because the civilizations that would have 298 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: built them were gone. Their languages were gone, their writing 299 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: was gone. In very short time, people couldn't decipher things 300 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: that had been written fifty or one hundred years before. 301 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: It was it was just one civilization after another fell 302 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: like dominoes all around the Mediterranean and this part of 303 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: the world that gave the world essentially civilization for the 304 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: very first time fell into this dark age, and it's 305 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: it's it was such a stark, massive, all encompassing collapse 306 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: of the first attempt at civilization that it just piqued 307 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: historians and archaeologists curiosity from the first time they detected it, 308 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: and they've been seeking to explain exactly what happened ever since. Yeah, 309 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: and we'll in a second will go over some of 310 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: the causes, but after the cause, and there's a lot 311 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: of debate over what those were. You we have a 312 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: civilization or a group of civilizations that we've talked about 313 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: being very interconnected and dependent on one another. So you 314 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: said they fell like dominoes. That's going to happen if 315 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: you have a lot of civilizations trading with one another, 316 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: depending on one another, sharing resources with one another. When 317 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: one goes down, then it becomes unstable for all of them. 318 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: And you know, if a civilization collapses, those people it's 319 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: not like everyone literally is destroyed, Like those people are 320 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: going to go to the next closest place probably and 321 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: that overstresses them and then it's just like you said, 322 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: it's it's just one after the other, this domino effect happens, 323 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: and it just kind of happened one after the other 324 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: over this very short time period. Yeah, because remember this 325 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: is the first time when people follow to centralized government, 326 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: and this is where you got your food, right, So 327 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: when that centralized government collapsed, you no longer had access 328 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: to food. And you're like, I'm a mathematician, I have 329 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: no idea how to grow grain. I'm going to starve 330 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: to death if somebody doesn't do something you told me. 331 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: Of course, you're going to run to the next civilization 332 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: that still has a central government with grain that they 333 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: could possibly have. But that puts a strain on the grain, 334 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: and people start to fight when there's a strain on 335 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: the grain. That's just how it goes, right, that's a 336 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: T shirt waiting to happen. So UM for one of 337 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: the first people or one of the first theories that 338 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: came along. Um was posed by an egyptologist, a French 339 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: egyptologist who coined the term the sea people. I like 340 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: that the sea people have long been UM. Yeah, it's 341 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: sound ominous in this sense, don't they. Yeah, when you 342 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: capitalize the sea people, yeah, yeah, they're probably not bringing 343 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: fruit baskets, you know. No, unfortunately not. They were bringing 344 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: death and destruction in Mayhem, and much the same way 345 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: that we today think of like the Vikings would have 346 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: to the UK and the Western Europe. This is a 347 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: very similar thing where a bunch of raiding pirates made 348 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: land and just sacked all these civilizations. And so, um, 349 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: they're they're almost hypothetical that we have a pretty good 350 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: idea that they did exist in some form or another. 351 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: They're they're written about in Egyptian stale stala, can't remember 352 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: how to say that. Um, but inscriptions, let's just say. 353 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: And they show up in art too, so we know 354 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: that they they happen, but we don't know who these 355 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: people are and what extent they They sacked the major 356 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: great city states, and if if they managed to topple 357 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: all these civilizations, then holy cow, they were They were amazing. 358 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: But a lot of people are like, I'm not sure 359 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: they actually were the trigger. They might have been a symptom. Yeah, 360 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: and we don't, like you said, we don't even know 361 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: for sure who they are. I believe Egyptians did identify 362 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: some groups of them at the time as like the 363 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: Oshawasha or the Luca or the check Lesh, but that 364 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: means nothing to us these days because their contemporary names 365 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: were lost to history. So what we call a lot 366 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: of civilizations today were named by people who discovered their 367 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: ruins years later, and that wasn't what they called themselves. 368 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: For instance, Minoans were named after the Greek king Minos 369 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: by an archaeologist named Arthur Evans or Arthur Evans. In 370 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: some cases we do know what they called themselves, in 371 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: other cases we don't. I think the Samerians we know 372 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: called themselves ung song giga, which is blackheaded people, but 373 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: they were named Samerians by Acadians who followed after them. 374 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: So we have trouble with identifying people because the names 375 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: were lost. We have trouble identifying people like to see 376 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: people because there's a very murky picture of who was 377 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 1: where and when they were there. So there's a lot 378 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: of different stories where you think, like one group of 379 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: people maybe came in and overpowered another and drove them 380 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: into oblivion, where it's like no, now we believe that 381 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: they were there sort of all along and they just 382 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: filled that power vacuum, or maybe those actually were those 383 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: people right right. Like For a good example is the Canaanites. 384 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: For a very long time, the Philistines were blamed, and 385 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: I mean a really long time the Philistines were blamed 386 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: for toppling the Canaanite empire. But more recent scholarship says, actually, 387 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: I think the Canaanites became the Philistines after the collapse. 388 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: They kind of broke up as a group and then reformed. Like, Umm, 389 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a band. The only one 390 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: I can think of is my high school band who 391 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: broke up and reformed without me. So let's just say 392 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: that it was like my high school band. Oh that 393 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: story just breaks my heart. Every time I hear it 394 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: breaks my heart too. But anyway, that's what they think happened. 395 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: So so a lot of the scholarship that we were 396 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: we relied on for centuries, like the Canaanites were toppled 397 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: by the Philistines. It was incorrect, and we have to 398 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: figure it out by deducing Well, wait a minute, this 399 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: group was here at this time, and this group was 400 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: at that time. The contemporary reports don't actually help us 401 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: that much because we might be totally familiar with the 402 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: Czech Lash, but we call them the Mycenians, right, but 403 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: is it the Mycenians. Well, let's go and look. The 404 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: Myssnians were toppled by the sea people, so probably not 405 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: the Mycenians. So you have to use this historical deduction 406 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: to try to figure out who these people were. But 407 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: the upshot of it is that now today and yes 408 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: I set up shot by god, I'll say it again, 409 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: the upshot of it is that today we think the 410 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: sea people we're basically like pirates of the days of 411 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: your or more recent days of yr. They weren't from 412 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: one particular country. They were a loose confederation of people 413 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: exactly which I mean, I buy that that makes sense. Yeah, 414 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: it makes a lot more sense than some group we 415 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: are totally unfamiliar with or know by a different name 416 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: but haven't detected. Went and like just completely toppled every 417 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: single culture in civilization in the Mediterranean at the time. Yeah, 418 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: I agree, another thing that makes sense. And I'll go 419 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: and spoil it and say I think all these make sense, 420 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: so subscribe to them. It was probably a little bit 421 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: of everything, but over extension is a big one, m 422 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: if you are. I mean, this was their first foray 423 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: into this kind of mass agriculturalism and massive government and 424 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: these big, big groups of people, and they you know, 425 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: it was just it was their first try humanities, first 426 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: try it this stuff. So obviously it's gonna not go perfectly. 427 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: And if you're managing that many people, like any government 428 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: has a limit on how many people even today that 429 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: they can probably manage successfully. Any business does, any friend 430 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: group does. So the fact that they just overextended themselves 431 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: is probably a pretty good factor. Yeah, that's entirely possible. 432 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: So that's another theory. Just buy itself over extension and 433 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: once those governments are like, oh god, I can't support 434 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: everybody's like maybe a revolt or at the very least 435 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: political instability in YadA YadA, YadA, right, and then dominoes. 436 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: One of the problems with that theory, though, is that 437 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: we have letters from one group to another, from like 438 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: the Hittite empress to the like Ramsey's the second in 439 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Egypt saying like hey help, which really shows the diplomacy 440 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: and the innerdependence. But they would say things like hey help, 441 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,479 Speaker 1: we're running out of grain. I need some food. Can 442 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: you please send my people some grain? So that makes 443 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: it seem like it wasn't just over extension, although it 444 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: could have been over extension that led to it. Now 445 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: that I kind of sessed it out, look at that, Yeah, 446 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: move might just go edit that whole part out because 447 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: it turned out to be totally unnecessary. Well, two natural 448 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: sort of disasters came together that are obviously going to 449 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: have a deleterious effect on civilizations, drought and earthquakes. We 450 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: do know that there's a lot of evidence that there 451 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: was a draft out, a seemingly really long one. I 452 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: think they've actually, you know, have actual proof of fossilized 453 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: pollen from the bottom of the Sea of Galilee that 454 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: said there was at least one hundred and fifty years drought, 455 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: and then other people say, now it was probably more 456 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: like three hundred years. And you know, that's that's going 457 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: to cause destabilization, Like nobody's business. If your whole like 458 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: sort of new societies are built on mass agriculture, people 459 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: are gonna start fighting. They're going to start warring with 460 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: one another. I do think it's interesting that along with 461 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: this theory they say that the sea people might have 462 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: been climate refugees from another part of the world. Very interesting, 463 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: and you know, back to what we said, like the 464 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: great thing about this mass farming is all of a sudden, 465 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: it freed up people to do other things with the 466 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: division of labor. But then when that was stressed, they 467 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: had to pull people like you said, I was I 468 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: was told I could do math, not that there would 469 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: be no math, quite the opposite, and they were pulled 470 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: back from those jobs. So all of a sudden you 471 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: had an end to other advances because you had to go. 472 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: You were trying to save your society. Yeah, and that 473 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: the twenty thirteen study, the one that determined the drought 474 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: was one hundred and fifty years long, also said that 475 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: the end of the drought seems to coincide with the 476 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: end of that Dark Age period and the rebuilding again 477 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: of civilization. The earthquake thing makes a lot of sense too. 478 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: You remember, of course, the horrific earthquakes that Turkey suffered 479 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: in February. There was a seven point five followed nine 480 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: hours later by a seven point eight, and that is 481 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: just mind boggling. It killed forty six thousand people. The 482 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: thing is that area, this area of the Mediterranean, and 483 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: then the Aegean as well. There's no less than four 484 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: major plates that come together in this area, the Arabian, 485 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: the African, the Anatolian, and the Eurasian plates all kind 486 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: of converge around here, and so it's known for its 487 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: earthquakes and also quake storms, which is what Turkey suffered recently. 488 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: It's like earthquake after earthquake after earthquake, and a lot 489 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: of them are really really big there that this area 490 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: is kind of plagued with it and has been for 491 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: a very long time. And there's plenty of evidence of 492 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: earthquake damage, lots of poor souls being found trapped under 493 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: their houses, and foundations like um just completely disrupted and 494 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: walls at weird angles, so that definitely happened around this time. 495 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: But then there's also other cities that were destroyed where 496 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: you find like arrowheads embedded into the walls and like 497 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: people with their heads cut off and stuff like that, 498 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: where it's like an earthquake didn't do that. Some other 499 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: group of people who attack the city did that. So 500 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: this kind of leads us to the to the the 501 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: one you subscribe to, which is everything everywhere, all at 502 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,719 Speaker 1: once theory, which is that every like there was basically 503 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: a multiplier effect where one disaster happened that triggered or 504 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: other disasters and it just made those disasters worse and 505 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: worse and worse, and that there was just a cascade 506 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: of system failures that that created this massive collapse. Yeah, 507 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: and again going back to what I was saying earlier, 508 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: it's like, this was the first try at this kind 509 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: of thing, and UM, well we'll get to maybe after 510 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: the break, we'll talk about lessons we've learned. But you know, 511 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: on a first attempt at this, it was a long 512 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: time ago. There. There's um, there wasn't anything they could 513 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: lean on in any of their histories to try and 514 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: write the ship. So it just sort of went the 515 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: way it went, you know, there was kind of almost 516 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: no stopping it, I think. So I'll give you another 517 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: anecdote of mine that kind of exemplifies this. Um, when 518 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: you and I moved into our first place that we 519 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: ever bought together, I was installing something or other. You 520 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: in the hot water pipe, yeah, the little condo, little 521 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: tiny place, yep, Um, and I broke the hot water 522 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: pipe at the water supply under the sink the valve, 523 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: so there's no way to turn it off. And my 524 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: response to that was to get up and literally run 525 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: in a circle, going, oh my god, Oh my god. 526 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, and you may had to run in 527 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,239 Speaker 1: and figure out what was going on, then run out 528 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: and find the water main and turn it off, right, 529 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: That's what I imagined, like some of these rulers did, 530 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: like after the first disaster too, because they had no 531 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: they had no frame of reference. I had no idea 532 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: what to do right then. I didn't think like watermin 533 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: They didn't even know there was a water main at 534 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: the time, so they had no exactly they That's kind 535 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: of the response I imagine them doing. That's pretty funny. 536 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: Then there's one other one, chuck um. So you know 537 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: how the Bronze Age led to the Iron Age. Yeah, 538 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: And the division between the two is basically right there 539 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: after the late Bronze Age collapse, you've got the Iron 540 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: Age almost immediately after it. And there is an idea 541 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: that in Bronze Age Ireland, which suffered its own collapse 542 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: later on, that it was the availability of iron that 543 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: led to the collapse of the Bronze Age because anybody 544 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: could go find and work iron into something. You didn't 545 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: need to have a tin from over here in copper, 546 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: massive trade networks and people at the top commanding everybody else. 547 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: You could go out and find it yourself. And this 548 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: theory that in Ireland at least, and it's possible it 549 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: applies to the Mediterranean too, that it democratized it so 550 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: much that it led to political instability, and hence that 551 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: that same destabilization where one civilization was top, all that 552 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: led to another and another and another. Boy, this is 553 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: the side of history I love more than any other 554 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: I think, which is are these just sort of things 555 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: like this is how the Earth was, and because you 556 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: could find something here it led to this, or you 557 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: couldn't find something there, it led to this, Right, It's 558 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: really fascinating to me. Yeah. And also they think that 559 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: the reason why we're able to find metals relatively close 560 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: to the Earth's surface enough so that we can mind 561 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: them and therefore housing basically all technology, is because the 562 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: I think a small planetoidum crashed into Earth, and that's 563 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: where they think the Moon came from. And then when 564 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: it smashed into Earth and pushed a lot of that 565 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: molten metal to the surface where it cooled and formed 566 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: and settled, allowing us to come billions of years later 567 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: and dig it up and create civilization from it. It 568 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: really like just makes you think it's all just a crapshoot. 569 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: Then we have no control over anything. Sure that? Or 570 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: we're living in a really amazing simulation. Yeah, that's right, 571 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: all right, both, they're both right, They both could be right? 572 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: Is it? Bluepillo? Red Bill? I can ever remember? Why? 573 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: Why not take both? Yeah? All right, man, I'm into that. 574 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: My I don't know if I should tell the story 575 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,479 Speaker 1: if it's pill based and maybe not. Probably not? All right, 576 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: So we'll take that break and we'll come back and talk, 577 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: like I mentioned earlier, a little bit about the lessons 578 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: we hopefully have learned from the Late Bronze Age collapse. So, Chuck, 579 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about lessons for today that you can take 580 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: from the Late Bronze Age collapse. And the most obvious 581 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: one is don't globalize. It's a bad move when you 582 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: become super interconnected and interdependent on one another. A problem 583 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: or a failure in one part of the system leads 584 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: to just failures throughout the system because everyone's so dependent 585 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: on one another. And if you kind of peel back 586 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: the curtain a little bit or scratch that lotto ticket 587 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: covering off, you see that the most people who are 588 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: saying that are probably nativists or anti globalists to begin with. 589 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: And that's what I was talking about before, where like 590 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: you can see us reflected back when we're looking and 591 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: interpreting what happened back then, are the lessons from it. 592 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: It really kind of reflects on what our thoughts and 593 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: attitudes are today. Yeah, and this isn't you know, a 594 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: big pro globalist rant or anything, but we do have 595 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: to kind of look around. It a pretty great recent 596 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: example of a worldwide test put on all of our civilizations, 597 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: which is the COVID pandemic that happened. You know, this 598 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: happened all over the world. Everyone was punched in the 599 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: face all you know, societies were punched in the face, 600 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: and there was no collapse. I mean, everyone got bruised 601 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: up pretty bad, and I think the whole world suffered 602 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: economically as we're still seeing the fallout from that up 603 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: today all over the world. But no one collapsed. It's 604 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: not like, you know, the the UK is now you know, 605 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: just a warring society and everyone's like you can't go 606 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: there anymore because they collapsed because of COVID. It was 607 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: a really big test of our globalized world. And there 608 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: are some very smart people who say, like, listen, you 609 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: can't point to the Bronze Age collapse and say like 610 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: that could happen again in modern times, because there's this 611 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: one economist that you found, Zachary Jos who is basically like, listen, 612 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: we're way more wealthy than they were back then. We 613 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: have capital goods like we never had before, and there's 614 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: a big cushion that affords us mistakes these days. That 615 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: they didn't have those mistakes. That's why, like I said, 616 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: it was, it was their first foray into this kind 617 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: of thing, so they had a very narrow edge they 618 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: were walking to begin with, so they couldn't afford mistakes. 619 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: We can afford mistakes these days and still be able 620 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: to take a punch of the face and get back 621 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: up and continue. He also pointed out that yeah, they 622 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 1: had a division of labor, but our division of labor 623 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: is global, and that you know, we have a lot 624 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: of redundancy in our systems too. So yeah, he's saying, yes, 625 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: you can make comparisons, but it's definitely not apples to 626 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: apples because of how far we've come and from the 627 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: lessons that we learned from the times where civilization has 628 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: collapsed and rebuilt and collapsed and rebuilt. The other way 629 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: to look at it. There's a guy named Eric Klein 630 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: who's a professor of ancient Nearie studies who also wrote 631 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: a book called eleven sixty seven, The Year Civilization Collapsed, 632 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: So he's a bit of an authority on this. His 633 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: whole thing is, actually, no, we're probably more susceptible to 634 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: collapse than the Bronze Age was because we're even more 635 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: interconnected than we were before. And there's a systems dynamics 636 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: term I believe called hypo hypercoherent, where the system is 637 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 1: so homogeneous, all the different parts of so homogeneous that 638 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: when one part and also interconnected, that when one part 639 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: breaks down, yeah, it just spreads really quickly and the 640 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: whole system breaks down. And you can really kind of 641 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: look around at the complexity of our world today, like 642 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 1: just like look at international banking. That's just one system 643 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: in the larger, complex, globalized system. So when you take 644 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: these complex systems and put them together with other systems 645 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: like trade, stock markets, healthcare, and then realize that all 646 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: those systems make up a truly global, ultimately complex system, 647 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: then you're like, actually, yeah, we're possibly even more susceptible 648 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: to breaking down than the Bronze age was Yeah, which 649 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: is scary to think about. But like as far as 650 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: anti globalists saying like we need to undo this. That 651 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: ship is sailed, don't you think. I mean, things are 652 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: so interconnected and we have such a globalist world that 653 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: it's you can't unwind that clock. I don't think and 654 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: if you could, you can, but it would be a 655 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: really rough, unpopular transition. But then what you're you're the 656 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: odd man out and the rest of the world is 657 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: working together. And what happens if you need help from 658 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: the rest of the world. How easy is it for 659 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: you to get that help? There's downsides to both globalism 660 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: and nativism, right, Um, neither one is just shown to 661 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: be the right way to go. And also, this is 662 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: a really good point to chuck Um, there's we don't 663 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: know that collapse is inevitable from complexity. We also don't 664 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: know that it's it's you can reach a point of 665 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: complexity where it's so complex that it actually becomes more stable. 666 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: We haven't figured this stuff out yet, but either one's 667 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: not inevitable collapse or success. So um, the best thing 668 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: we can do is just invest in ways to be resilient. Yeah, 669 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think you can even narrow that down 670 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: to like secession these days, where it's like, good luck, 671 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: what's that? Man? Have you really thought this through or 672 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,919 Speaker 1: do you just like the idea of giving the finger 673 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: to the rest of the country. Yeah, for sure. I 674 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: mean that's a great question. I'd love to hear it 675 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: answered too. Yeah, and like I really thought out way, 676 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: Like here's how that would work, exactly right. Everybody's gonna 677 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 1: wear the same kind of flame shirt. It's gonna be awesome, Seattle. 678 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: I was thinking more Kansas, the legit plannel shirts. So 679 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: what else? It's another lesson too, right, Yeah, I mean 680 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: I think a more hopeful lesson is that, like you 681 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: kind of touched on earlier at the beginning, when when 682 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: you have diverse groups of people interacting, like what usually 683 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: has followed is affluence in peace, and that is that's 684 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,399 Speaker 1: what happened here for a long time as well, right, 685 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: even more than just the Late Bronze Age. After that collapse, 686 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: I think the Phoenicians really kind of rose to power, 687 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: and they were a seafaring people, and one of the 688 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: first things they did was start peddling their purple dyes 689 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: that they were famous for um around the Mediterranean, and 690 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: they ended up establishing new trade networks with other groups 691 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: that had survived the collapse and started to rise to power, 692 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: and so the whole thing began again. It's so funny 693 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: to think about. It's like everyone's like, what is that, 694 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: and they're like, it's purple. Right, people are going to 695 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 1: go wild for this stuff, and new civilizations will be 696 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: built because people are so wild about this color. Yeah, 697 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: and it's true. I mean that was a huge driver 698 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 1: of it. Purple dye. Yeah, isn't it amazing? It is? 699 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: But but the upshot is, sorry everybody that when we 700 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: when we it almost seems like it's it's just going 701 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,439 Speaker 1: to happen, whether we like it or not. The more 702 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: we kind of grow as a people and grow technol 703 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: technologically and an intelligence, we seek out other people to 704 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: interact with and trade with and become more prosperous with, 705 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: and if we do it peacefully, then prosperity follows. That 706 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: seems to be a huge part of not just the 707 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 1: Bronze Age but also the what emerged from the Dark 708 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: Age that followed after the Late Bronze Age collapse. Yeah, 709 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: it's like a big cycle. But if it is a 710 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: big cycle, then it makes you nervous, because then that 711 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: means we're due for a collapse at some point. Yeah, 712 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: unless we've become so resilient and um um a redundant 713 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: in our system that we are going to avoid a 714 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: collapse from now on. I don't think that's right. I 715 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: don't think we've reached that yet, but I think it's 716 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: possible to reach that. Did you touch on any of 717 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: this in the End of the World with Josh Clark? Um, 718 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, not really, all right, thank 719 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,439 Speaker 1: you for that plug though sure, you know I listen 720 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: to about half of those. It was too smart for me, bs, 721 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: it really was. It's not like I can't see this 722 00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: guy's voice. No, it's not that. What about there's one more, 723 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: chuck though, we have to touch on it's a climate change. 724 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: It's a big, a big deal. It's a big enough 725 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: deal that it's possible that drove the collapse of our 726 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 1: first attempts at civilization. So it's not necessarily a lesson 727 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,439 Speaker 1: of what to do in there, but at the very least, 728 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: it's like a hey, pay attention to what's going on. Yeah, 729 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: and we've seen, you know, when natural disasters happen large 730 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: groups of people moving to another place on mass. I 731 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: mean those are sort of more micro examples of the 732 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: bigger picture that happened back then. But that's what happens. Yeah, 733 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: and sometimes people stay. Yeah, some people make it. The 734 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: people who like it really hot and wet, Yeah, not me. No, 735 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 1: you like it cold, don't you like? Genuinely I love 736 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: the cold weather, but I don't like, you know, six 737 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: month winters. It's not like I'm have any desire to 738 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: move to Minnesota and endure that stuff. But I do 739 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: love cold weather. It suits me. That's great. You got 740 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: anything else? They got no else. Well, since Chuck I 741 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: was talking about how cold weather suits him, that triggers 742 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: the collapse of this episode into the dark age of 743 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 1: a listener mail. All Right, I'm gonna call this oh 744 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: boy crossword puzzle follow up. This is a very dark age. 745 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: This is the episode where people don't like us, even 746 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: having the most minor of disagreement. I mean, I had 747 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: people writing in they were like, you need to get 748 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 1: rid of Chuck. That smug soob it's crazy. I was like, jeez, 749 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: I hope I'm not on that cent of ice. No, 750 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: you're Some people's opinions that are playing. So here's a 751 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: couple of a couple of things here from two people. Hey, guys, 752 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: love the show. I was excited to hear you talk 753 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: about crosswords. Josh talked about how all crosswords are symmetrical, 754 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 1: and Chuck said today's was not. I thought it was 755 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,720 Speaker 1: cool because I distinctly remembered the New York Times February sixteenth, 756 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three was not symmetrical. After Chuck and Josh 757 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: took a second look, Chuck saw he was a mistaken 758 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: and the crossword did have symmetry. So the episode is 759 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: probably recorded on some other day. All of this to say, 760 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: asymmetric crosswords are very rarely published, but if they are, 761 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: they like they have some trick or rebus in order 762 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: to solve it. We didn't talk about rebus is in 763 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: the show. No, but you wanted to, right, Did you 764 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: want to mention that what that is? Yeah? A rebus 765 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: is something I didn't know about when I started out, 766 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: which is I put you at a very distinct disadvantage 767 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,760 Speaker 1: because it's when you include multiple letters in a single square. 768 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: And John Hodgeman told me about it, and I was like, well, 769 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: how are you supposed to know? He said, well, once 770 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: you know it's a thing, you might be on the 771 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: lookout if you're like, for sure, you know a clue, 772 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: but it's not fitting. And I was like, well, how 773 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: do you even do that on a phone? And there's 774 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: a little Rebus button? Oh yeah, whatever, new Well it's 775 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: on like the second keyboard, like the one you go 776 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: to for numbers and symbols and things. Yea, it says Rebus. 777 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: Oh really, I've never noticed them. Well it's it's only 778 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: when you're doing the crossword. It just pops up. So anyway, 779 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: that was from Alec, and then this is from David, 780 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: and we got a bunch of other people that explained 781 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: why I was getting tripped up because what you were 782 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: describing was radial symmetry. Okay, yeah, right, which is rotational 783 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: symmetry if you rotate an empty crossword one hundred and 784 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: eighty degrees and it looks the same I was looking at. 785 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: I think there are four types of symmetry. I was 786 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: looking at whatever the one is called. Maybe it is 787 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: called mirror symmetry. I don't remember where it's the exact 788 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: same on the left and right. And that's why I 789 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: was like, no, it's not I'm looking at it. So 790 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: you were describing radial symmetry, and David from Snowy, Montreal 791 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: wrote that, along with a bunch of other people. Yeah, 792 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,760 Speaker 1: and that helped me feel better that I wasn't crazy. 793 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: And now I know there are four types of symmetry. Yeah, 794 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: the one that includes all four types is very pleasing. 795 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: That's why they call it super symmetry. No, really, no, 796 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: it's just I think symmetry has to do a string theory, 797 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure we should do an episode on 798 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,360 Speaker 1: string theory once. Would you? Would you be willing to 799 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: give it a shot with me? Right after I retire? 800 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: You can do that deal? Well, Thanks a lot to 801 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 1: smart Alec and smart David for writing in to let 802 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: us know what the deal was and why we were miscommunicating, 803 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: and everybody calmed down. Chuck and I love each other, 804 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: don't worry about that, and we both love Jerry, so 805 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: calm down. Agree. If you want to send us a 806 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: listener mail, you can send it via email too. Stuff 807 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is 808 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 809 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or where every listening 810 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows