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Speaker 1: Post Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Poorest Love Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove.

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Speaker 1: We have the family with us right now. Sugar Steve,

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Speaker 1: the fastest man in the universe. I am fast, I'm here.

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Speaker 1: I'm so very excited about this. Yes, wow, wait, that's

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Speaker 1: what device was that?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 1: Bill?

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Speaker 3: This is my very fancy whiskey glass. Thank you for asking.

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Speaker 1: It's not a device, it's advice, Billy. Our guest has

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Speaker 1: a good trick too. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, I'm having giant sun kiss FDA.

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Speaker 1: Apple.

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Speaker 5: Only a shot a mirror, only a shot?

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Speaker 1: Layah? How are you with your uh your fan? You good?

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Speaker 2: Yes, shout us to all the perimenopause the ladies. Yes

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Speaker 2: it is here, and yes we are.

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Speaker 4: Too if we're talking about.

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Speaker 5: It, Yes we are. Don't you love it?

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Speaker 4: I love it?

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Speaker 5: Hey, Hallie, thank you Hallie Berry.

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Speaker 1: Well, ladies and gentlemen, First, don't succeed. You try, and

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Speaker 1: you try, and you try again, and we will say

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Speaker 1: that the wis this is the third or fourth time?

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Speaker 1: Is the charm? It's finally happening. Our guest is a

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Speaker 1: multi hyphened powerhouse of a talent and a human being.

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Speaker 1: You know, I understand the term that they want to say,

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Speaker 1: but I don't believe in egot. I believe in ghetto.

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Speaker 1: So right now you're a get okay, I'll take it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I'm trying to go for ghetto. I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to go for egott. You are a Grammy Award winner

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Speaker 1: and you.

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Speaker 5: Don't want to want to go back to the ghetto.

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Speaker 6: I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and a multiple Tony Award winner, a musician, an

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Speaker 1: actor and activist, an author, humanitarian, a Time Magazine one

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Speaker 1: hundred Most Influential Person recipient. You know, there's nothing the

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Speaker 1: scoff at Uh. We are currently ahead of our guest

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Speaker 1: brand new project, which is called The Black Mona Lisa

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Speaker 1: Volume two cookout Sessions. Most importantly, you are from Pittsburgh?

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Speaker 2: Are you at a title?

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Speaker 1: I was about to say my mom's from Pittsburgh, but

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Speaker 1: I do not know the proper way to address agains YenS.

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Speaker 7: Is just you, you all, y'all?

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Speaker 6: Whatever, it is, just put.

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Speaker 1: How ya doing?

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Speaker 4: Hey?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: Talk him out? Please? Welcome to Quest lof Subrie. Finally,

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Speaker 1: Billy Porter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not at a title. He's also a joy

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Speaker 2: Bringer he's a joyer.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So wait, what is the proper way to use

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Speaker 1: Yen's Because I feel like I'm an honorary Pittsburgh and

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Speaker 1: pittsburghen you're.

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Speaker 4: Dealing with multiple people, and you're talking to multiple people's plural.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it's like y'all, it's a Southern y'all,

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Speaker 3: it's a Pittsburgh and y'all.

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Speaker 4: You all y'all ying.

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Speaker 1: I get it. See, I didn't know that it was

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Speaker 1: plural because I see a singular person. I'm just like Yen's.

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Speaker 4: OKAYLORA, It's the only way to use it.

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Speaker 6: It's floral.

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Speaker 1: Jacob is awesome from Pittsburgh just informed me that the

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Speaker 1: term fuckings is a term for ye.

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Speaker 6: I don't know that many people say that, but.

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Speaker 4: That's proper. You will be using it correctly in a sentence.

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Speaker 1: What part of Pittsburgh are you from? So?

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Speaker 4: I grew up in the East Liberty slash Homewood area,

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Speaker 4: like right on the cuff in the hood hood.

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Speaker 1: I've heard my mom mention this place often, so okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: East Liberty, Okay, that is what's liberty?

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Speaker 6: Just combine it sliberty.

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Speaker 1: How long have you lived there?

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Speaker 4: I lived there until I essentially graduated from college. I

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Speaker 4: went to Cardigial Melain And.

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Speaker 1: What's your major drama?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Okay, I was in the drama department. Honey, your

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Speaker 4: whole life, no classical theater calledge Daddy is trained. It's

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Speaker 4: not a mistake. It's not by accident.

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Speaker 1: What I want to know is because one of the

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Speaker 1: last conversations I had with you was I was watching

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Speaker 1: everyone on the show knows my obsession with Soul Train

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Speaker 1: and owning all thousands of episodes, and I remember your

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Speaker 1: careers as far as back as I think you were

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Speaker 1: on the show. I believe in ninety four, ninety five.

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Speaker 4: I believe, yes, I would say ninety five or ninety

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Speaker 4: six because the untitled came out and on AM Records.

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Speaker 4: That was my first album in ninety six, and I

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Speaker 4: was on with ll clo J. Was on the same

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Speaker 4: episode as.

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Speaker 5: Me Marmore Soul Drain Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, posted on Souldrain. Yeah. So that's when I

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Speaker 1: first became aware of you. Like, for some reason, I

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Speaker 1: didn't connect that as you, even though I remember that

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Speaker 1: episode well because I religiously record that show. So I'll

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Speaker 1: start off like I ask everyone, what is your first

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Speaker 1: musical memory in life. Then I stumped you.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's not just one, and so it's hard to

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Speaker 4: like because there are many different.

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Speaker 1: When you thing of your childhood. Yeah, what's the first

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Speaker 1: moment of music? Church?

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Speaker 4: Okay, singing in church, singing that friendship Baptist church, being

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Speaker 4: five years old, singing a solo, being the adult choir

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Speaker 4: because I could sing so good, so they let me

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Speaker 4: in the adult choir till I was out of concert.

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Speaker 4: It was a it was a mass choir, conor clert.

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Speaker 4: I was marching up. I was in the front in

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Speaker 4: the soprano section because I was a gospel soprano until

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Speaker 4: I was thirty. It's recorded so you can go and

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Speaker 4: listen to it and see that I'm not lying or

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Speaker 4: here that I'm not lying. But yeah, that's the first memory.

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Speaker 4: And I was marching up and this really really mean

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Speaker 4: lady snatched me out of the line because she decided

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Speaker 4: that I was out of place and I shouldn't have

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Speaker 4: been there because I was a little child.

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Speaker 1: But did she have the authority to do that or

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Speaker 1: was she the really no, she did not.

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Speaker 6: It's in my book. It was very traumatizing.

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Speaker 1: How old were you?

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Speaker 6: I was like seven or eight, maybe.

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Speaker 1: You were that powerful of a singer.

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Speaker 4: You know the Clark sisters, right obviously of course, so

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Speaker 4: you know Maddie Boss Clark essimply was the female James

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Speaker 4: cleavey okay, right. She was in the KOJC Church, the

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Speaker 4: Church of God in Christ. He was Baptist. He was

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Speaker 4: the Baptist Convention of whatever. And he would go around

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Speaker 4: the different cities and get singers from all the different churches,

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Speaker 4: put them together and make those albums.

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Speaker 6: So she did the same thing in the Pentecostal Church.

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Speaker 4: And so I was such a good singer that somebody

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Speaker 4: took me down there to Mill Street Church of God

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Speaker 4: in Christ to be in the choir. And you weren't

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Speaker 4: allowed to be in the choir and unless she was sixteen, But.

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Speaker 1: What if your voice was excellent? What if you were

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Speaker 1: the Aretha frames I'm about to say. Okay, So I.

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Speaker 4: Get there and they're like, he can't be here, and

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Speaker 4: they were like, just listen to him sing, and I said,

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Speaker 4: and she was like sit out. She said, come on,

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Speaker 4: she said, sit right here in front row. So you know,

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Speaker 4: so I sat in the front row and worked with

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Speaker 4: Mattign's Clark. I haven't really.

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Speaker 6: Retold that story.

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Speaker 4: In a long time, and I thank you for making

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Speaker 4: me think about it, because I would say those are

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Speaker 4: the two that's a major major musical milestone for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, like the beginning, the.

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Speaker 6: First time that I really knew.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I want you to explain something to me

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Speaker 1: because oftentimes, you know, and we've had gospel lessons on

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Speaker 1: the shows, and of course you know, for any black

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Speaker 1: singer I know, I'll say that eighty five to ninety

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Speaker 1: percent of their entry into music is coming through the church. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: can you please explain to me? Is there a difference

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Speaker 1: between a Baptist church a Pentecostal church?

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Speaker 4: So I would say, we're not a monolis right, So

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Speaker 4: like back in the day, the difference between Baptists and

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Speaker 4: Pentecostal was the charismatic.

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Speaker 1: Part, okay, shouting, the speaking in.

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Speaker 4: Tongues and all of that was reserved for the Pentecostal people.

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Speaker 6: The Baptist people at that time.

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Speaker 4: Were still pulled up, okay, and they were still closer

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Speaker 4: to ame, which was African American Episcopals. So if you've

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Speaker 4: been to African American Episcopal you were probably singing classical music.

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Speaker 6: You were probably.

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Speaker 4: Singing, you know, your choir was singing hymns that were traditional.

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Speaker 6: You probably had, like you know, Leonting Price.

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Speaker 4: Was your soloist, okay, at the Ame church, Lanting Price

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Speaker 4: was your soloist. At the Baptist church, Mahela Jackson was

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Speaker 4: your soloist. And I do it with music. If you

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Speaker 4: think of Mehelia Jackson balls to the walls belting. Okay,

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Speaker 4: Pentecostal and I'm breaking it down through. Music was all

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Speaker 4: about the coloring and the riffing and all of that.

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Speaker 1: So if I were drumming, I would probably be at

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Speaker 1: home drumming in a Pentecostal church.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it was freer at the time. Now Baptists and

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Speaker 4: Pentecostal are the same.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm a seventies church person, so I think the

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Speaker 1: last time I really really played in church was like

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Speaker 1: eighty seven. And of course, you know, as a teenager

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Speaker 1: and listening to hip hop or whatever, I would try

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Speaker 1: to sneak in songs that were like Breakbeats or play

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Speaker 1: Top Billing by Audio two or Peter Piper by run DMC,

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Speaker 1: and the older people would look at me and start scowling,

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Speaker 1: like m M, don't play any like? Was it looked

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Speaker 1: down upon in terms of contemporary music, or.

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Speaker 4: In the Baptist Church at the time, it was expanding. Okay,

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Speaker 4: you could play, you could push it, but not too far, like,

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Speaker 4: for instance, the Clark sisters were everywhere, but when you

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Speaker 4: brought the sunshine happened and it crossed over into the clubs,

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Speaker 4: it was a problem.

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Speaker 3: Just like the.

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Speaker 6: Hawkins family and Oh Happy Day, you know.

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Speaker 4: But those people were like, but we're over here preaching

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Speaker 4: to the choir. They were pioneers because they were like, well,

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Speaker 4: we're over here preaching to the choir, and you're mad

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Speaker 4: at us because we've broken through to essentially centers secular

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Speaker 4: secular right, So isn't that the point the Bible says,

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Speaker 4: go out into the world and preach my gospel. That's

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Speaker 4: what the Bible says. So I was in that era

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Speaker 4: where it was becoming more and more accepted. I mean

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Speaker 4: now essentially, you know, I mean and and R and

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Speaker 4: B and soul and gospel. They've always borrowed from each other,

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Speaker 4: you know. And nowadays gospel artists are a hip hop artists.

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Speaker 4: You know, Mary Mary is a hip hop artist. They

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Speaker 4: came out they were hip hop artists, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, Like, there's a whole generation of folk.

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Speaker 6: Now, you know, you listen to Jake Marsh, she may

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Speaker 6: as well be.

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Speaker 4: It's like, you know, King Keith heard when she first

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Speaker 4: came out, Like they're very contemporary and they're borrowing heavily

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Speaker 4: right from the hip hop tradition.

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Speaker 2: Now his house, we were just talking to bb Winings

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Speaker 2: about the work that he's been doing with Louis Vega,

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Speaker 2: and it's yeah, and you and you with Freda, right,

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Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what's motivational music in that way?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, Belly.

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Speaker 3: Do you consider yourself a church singer still to this.

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Speaker 6: Day, Yeah, I'm a gospel singer.

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Speaker 3: That's how you defined yourself.

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Speaker 4: I'm a gospel singer. Anywhere I go, I'm a gospel singer.

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Speaker 4: You know my mom, you know, I left the church

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Speaker 4: when I was sixteen because I'm a big old queen

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Speaker 4: and I wasn't out, and so I left and I

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Speaker 4: was like, I'm not changing, I'm God made me who

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Speaker 4: I am. I'm leaving.

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Speaker 6: And my mom had a problem with it, and she

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Speaker 6: came around and whatever.

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Speaker 4: Before she passed, she passed it every word, but before

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Speaker 4: she passed, every time every time she would come.

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Speaker 6: And hear me or see me do something. She was

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Speaker 6: so sweet.

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Speaker 4: She would be like, I know you left the church,

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Speaker 4: and you left it for good reason, But every time

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Speaker 4: you open up your book, nothing but.

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Speaker 3: Jess nothing but Jesus nothing, Jesus nothing.

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Speaker 6: And it's true.

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Speaker 4: It's like when I listen to myself, I got you

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Speaker 4: can't take the gospel.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel when someone writes a song for you,

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Speaker 3: because I know that this happens with you and it

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Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily sound like you. What is your thought process

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Speaker 3: in that?

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Speaker 4: Well, people who are writing music for me are generally

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Speaker 4: writing it because they want me to sing it. So

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Speaker 4: for me coming from a church background where it's about

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Speaker 4: the spirit, it's about sharing your gifts with the congregation

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Speaker 4: and the message and the ministry, and then moving that

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Speaker 4: into training as a classical actor and learning how to

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Speaker 4: tell the story because the story is most important. So

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Speaker 4: in the secular world it's the same thing. The ministry

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Speaker 4: and telling the story is the same. They fold into one, right.

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Speaker 2: Bill, didn't you guys do this in a way. I

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Speaker 2: know you did Sesame Street at some point.

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Speaker 3: So I was like, Billy was on Sesame Street and

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Speaker 3: he sang an ebby winning song called Friends with the Penguin,

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Speaker 3: and it was one of the one of the I

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Speaker 3: will say, in the fifteen years i've been there in

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Speaker 3: one of my top five moments was this moment. And

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Speaker 3: my girlfriend, who was a producer of the show, was like,

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Speaker 3: it was one of the greatest moments you ever had

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Speaker 3: on the show. Was you and that outfit seeing a

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Speaker 3: song and it was fucking magical, and so like, I

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Speaker 3: just want to say thank you very much because it was.

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Speaker 4: Recognize your name. I'm like, I'm not a name, but

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of friends we have.

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Speaker 3: We have James Sampleiner, I'm talking to the stark Sands

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Speaker 3: over here, who's like, ask them about this, Like it's

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Speaker 3: a whole Yeah, we have a lot of the same

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Speaker 3: Literally just got off the phone with James Sampliner.

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Speaker 2: Y'all like cousins, theatre cousins, right, like theatre cousins.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the small world.

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Speaker 4: I'm always trying to tell the story and because my

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Speaker 4: voice was so high and it was so different and

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Speaker 4: it didn't fit into anything or anywhere, you know, Like

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Speaker 4: my voice was so high that regular tenor roles in

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Speaker 4: theater had to be transposed up a third or a

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Speaker 4: fourth for me. So like I would go into auditions

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Speaker 4: singing a regular tenor song like let's say Anthem from Chess,

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Speaker 4: a song that everybody in that era say, right, and

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Speaker 4: I would go in and I would have to sing

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Speaker 4: it a fourth higher from where it was written. So

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Speaker 4: I would take the music in and put it in

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Speaker 4: front of a piano player, and it was like Mitton's McCluskey,

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Speaker 4: because they're so used to playing it in a you

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Speaker 4: know that they couldn't even like. So I had to

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Speaker 4: start taking my own piano player with me to auditions

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Speaker 4: because people wouldn't be able to even looking at it.

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Speaker 6: They wouldn't be able to understand this transla.

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Speaker 1: When I deal with singers normally, it's like you got

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Speaker 1: to lower it a few notches usually win in concert.

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Speaker 1: They want to go lower, yeah, but you want to

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Speaker 1: raise it higher at that time.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I feel like I've heard you sing Luther

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Speaker 2: before and I have.

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Speaker 4: Time. But I was very good with female altos with extension.

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Speaker 4: I could sing those songs in the regular keys. I

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Speaker 4: could sing I have nothing in the original key, Like

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Speaker 4: I could sing that for real, with no like effort,

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Speaker 4: no screeching note, like my top note. If you go

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Speaker 4: and you google oh Holy Night on the Rose O'donald

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Speaker 4: Christmas Special.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I guess I thought that video you was seeing Google.

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Speaker 4: Oh Holy Night, that's that's Billy Porter prime at that time.

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Speaker 4: Listen to Love Is on the Way from the First

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Speaker 4: Wives Club, that's Billy Porter like at my highest prime.

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Speaker 4: I mean the high note that I hit at the

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Speaker 4: end of Holy Night was a high. I think it

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Speaker 4: was F above or f a G above that high

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Speaker 4: soprano see beltic.

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Speaker 1: Who are the three singers that you pattered in yourself after?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: Who were the singers that? Who your north star? Who's

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Speaker 1: your top three? Okay, Karen Clark.

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Speaker 5: Here and Aretha Okay, Trinnedy Trinity.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that you know, those are the three

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Speaker 1: that are everyone's choice. Is there a singer that's sort

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Speaker 1: of out of that circle that people will be surprised

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Speaker 1: that you gravitate towards?

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Speaker 6: I don't think it would be a surprise.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, men, I like Tom Waits, and Tom Waits

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Speaker 1: has a horrible voice. I love that you love Tom Waits.

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Speaker 6: God, you're making me atlantis.

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Speaker 5: Martha that was random? Does love her?

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Speaker 4: Love that that okay, and I'm sure there are more.

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Speaker 6: You know, you put me on the spot. Now I

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Speaker 6: can't take it.

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Speaker 2: Nobody not to step on your toes, B But I

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Speaker 2: was like, why are you thinking I'm curious about the

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Speaker 2: first secular show that you experienced, because that's a part

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Speaker 2: of your musical moment too.

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Speaker 5: I know you mentioned church for real, for real, but

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Speaker 5: what was the first.

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Speaker 1: Your first concert or this will be a surprise. Wait

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Speaker 1: before we get to that. Did you live in a

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Speaker 1: no secular music household? Or was that allowed no secular

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Speaker 1: music at all? Uh? All right, so who would you

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Speaker 1: sneak and listen to nobody? Oh? You followed the rules.

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Speaker 4: Well until a certain age, right, it was only secular music.

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Speaker 4: And the music that I heard was on the radio

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Speaker 4: or at somebody else's house. Okay, and it was always

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Speaker 4: in passing. That's where you do all your bad shit

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Speaker 4: at somebody else's house.

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Speaker 6: So it was somebody else's house.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: I loved Michael Jackson, I loved Shaka, I loved you know, Prince.

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Speaker 5: Was a little oho much.

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Speaker 4: I liked it, but it was like I felt like

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Speaker 4: my mom could hear me listening to it.

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Speaker 1: I got on punishment for prince. So I understand all that,

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Speaker 1: and it was a little nasty, so had a night,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 4: But what's interesting about my journey is that it was gospel, gospel, gospel, gospel.

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Speaker 4: And then in the sixth grade, I was bussed to

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Speaker 4: Risingstein Middle School during the second sort of desegregation moment,

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Speaker 4: and I was introduced to theater. I was introduced to

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Speaker 4: musical theater, and I got bit by the bug. And

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Speaker 4: so then it became I went right from gospel music

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Speaker 4: to theater. And theater for some reason was okay with

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Speaker 4: my mother.

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Speaker 6: He didn't really understand it.

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Speaker 4: And so I was going to the Carnegie Library and

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Speaker 4: taking out ten albums a week and.

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Speaker 6: Listening to it while I was doing my homework.

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Speaker 4: But I have to say it wasn't until I was

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Speaker 4: about fifteen when I got a job working at Kenny

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Speaker 4: Wood Park Kadywood Park in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is the

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Speaker 4: amusement park.

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Speaker 1: It's still there, Okay, it's.

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Speaker 6: Still privately owned.

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Speaker 4: It's one of the last privately owned amusement parks that's

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Speaker 4: still owned by the family that started.

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Speaker 6: It in the country.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because a lot of them have been bought up.

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Speaker 5: By like six flags flag.

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Speaker 6: And so I was by myself.

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Speaker 4: I was living with the grown ups, and by grown

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Speaker 4: ups I mean the college kids in the motel out

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Speaker 4: by the park. Because my mother was now going to

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Speaker 4: drive me out to that park every day and come

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Speaker 4: and pick me up. She trusted me enough to do that.

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Speaker 4: She signed off on me having a job. I did

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Speaker 4: six shows a day, six days a week. Four of

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Speaker 4: them were different.

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Speaker 1: How old were you fifteen? So were you emancipated? I was.

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Speaker 6: No, it was I wasn't answer.

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Speaker 5: She gave you permission to me permission I had.

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Speaker 4: To have written permission from her and take it downtown

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Speaker 4: to whoever it was, or she had to go with

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Speaker 4: me or something to give me permission to work.

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Speaker 6: And we were ports. So like I wanted Georgiana ask James.

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Speaker 6: I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: And myself if you shot Damn.

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Speaker 4: I forgot about Jumber. I'm fifty five and September. I

396
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 4: needed my Sergyovalente. I needed my stuff. And she said,

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Speaker 4: you know, she looked at me at one point and

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Speaker 4: she's like, you have champagne taste on the beer budget.

399
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Speaker 4: And so I came home one day for the job

400
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Speaker 4: and she said what And I'm like, yeah, and I

401
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 4: get to perform and I get to do you know what,

402
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 4: I'm doing this and that and that.

403
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Speaker 6: She was like, oh, and then she met the people.

404
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 4: She went and she met the people who hired me

405
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Speaker 4: because I went on a flute to the audition.

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Speaker 6: I went with somebody else, okay, to.

407
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Speaker 4: Accompany somebody else who had done it the year before.

408
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Speaker 4: Curtis Clark, he had done it the year before. He's like,

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Speaker 4: you need to come an audition because you get this job.

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Speaker 6: And I did.

411
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Speaker 4: And six shows a day, six days a week. Four

412
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Speaker 4: of the shows were different.

413
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Speaker 1: And we had costume spontaneous or no with So there

414
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: were two groups.

415
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Speaker 4: There were two groups, and they were like ten shows

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Speaker 4: a day or something or seven shows a day at

417
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Speaker 4: the same place. So there was Rasmatas, which was a band,

418
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 4: a live band with three singers, three female singers. They

419
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Speaker 4: had their four shows a day, eighty five.

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Speaker 1: They've been out since seventy nine, weren't they?

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Speaker 6: They were there and seventy nine and this group was there.

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Speaker 1: I know, Oh my god, you've seen it. I wasn't heard.

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Speaker 1: I've heard of Ramatas like no, I did hard time

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Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh. I know this name good.

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00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 4: And we and we were flashed and Flash did our

426
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 4: shows to track, and all the shows were themed, you know,

427
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: so like there was a TV show, there was a

428
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: Broadway show, there was a dance show, there was a

429
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: you know, and so ours had three male dancers and

430
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 4: three female dancers. And so we did two different shows

431
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 4: a day. Razmatast did two different shows a day, alternating.

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Speaker 6: That was during the daytime. Then in the evening, both

433
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 6: casts would come together.

434
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Speaker 4: And we would do a show at seven which was

435
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 4: one thing, and then a show at like nine thirty

436
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 4: which was a whole different show, combined casts. As your

437
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 4: first audition, that was my first professional audition, and I

438
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 4: worked my ass off for three seasons.

439
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 6: I did it for three seasons.

440
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Speaker 1: What point did you realize I have a dream to

441
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: chase and it's not where I am now? What was

442
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: your goal? Like at thirteen.

443
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 4: The summer of eight after I did my first musical,

444
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 4: which was What which was Babes and Arms, and I

445
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 4: played Gus Fielding And there were so many people that

446
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 4: I auditioned for it that every role was double cast.

447
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 4: And they told us at the beginning, every single part

448
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 4: will be double cast. The cast lists spent up every

449
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: part was double cast, but mine, And I'm like, what

450
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 4: does that mean? You know, because I was bullied so

451
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 4: relentlessly for not being able to play sports and being

452
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 4: a book person, that all of a sudden, I'm looking

453
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: at this extracurricular thing and if I'm not double cast,

454
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 4: that means.

455
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 6: I'm doing something right.

456
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: Yep.

457
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 6: So I was bit by the bug.

458
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: And then that summer was dream Girls was on the

459
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 4: Tonies and I just happened to be washing my dishes

460
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 4: in the kitchen the Tony Awards came on.

461
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: I didn't even know what it was.

462
00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: You never heard of dream Girl.

463
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: I had never heard of dream Girls. I had never

464
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 4: heard of the Tony Boards. I didn't know what was happening.

465
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: But all I knew I was eleven, But all I

466
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: knew was that I was watching black people on a stage,

467
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: the same kind of stage that I had been on,

468
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 4: doing the same kind of thing that I had just done. Right,

469
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 4: But it was black people who weren't poor. They were

470
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 4: they were in gowns, they were and so I was intrigued.

471
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: And they did that fight section into and I'm telling you,

472
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: and then Jennifer Holliday gets up and starts singing like

473
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 4: I sing in church. I did Babes and arms. I

474
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 4: didn't think that was a possibility to sleepless nice to

475
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: daily fine.

476
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: Yes, of course.

477
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 4: In elementary school theater. You know, it's middle school theater.

478
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 4: So there was nothing black about it. There was nothing

479
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 4: current or urban about right. So I didn't make the

480
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 4: connection A that this was something that people did for

481
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: a living and B that I could actually have a

482
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 4: place in it inside of my authentic self. So I

483
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 4: knew that wherever those people are is where I have

484
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: to go. And they're in New York and they're on Broadway,

485
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 4: so that's where I'm going. And I made that decision

486
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 4: at eleven.

487
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 5: Was your first time seeing theater in New York?

488
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 6: Or did you?

489
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 4: After you watched the Chonnes, were you like, I need

490
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 4: to go to a show.

491
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 6: I need to see this. I started seeing.

492
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 4: Theater in Pittsburgh, and I started immersing myself and finding

493
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: places to train and putting myself in the right. But

494
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 4: I didn't see my first Broadway show until I went

495
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 4: to audition for colleges when I was seventeen.

496
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 6: I didn't have any way.

497
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 4: To get there. Really, I didn't know how to get there.

498
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 4: I didn't know you know, there was no Internet. There

499
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 4: was no like you have to this is nineteen eighty five, Like,

500
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 4: there was no I didn't understand how to get there.

501
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: So I had to figure out how to get there

502
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: in Pittsburgh. And it was through the theater that it

503
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 4: happened because there's no music industry in Pittsburgh.

504
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: Question. So my relationship with I'm telling You I'm Not

505
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: Going is, you know, due to the numerous times that

506
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: song gets chosen as showtime at the Apollo. So, you know,

507
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: I found out about dream Girls long after. You know,

508
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: they're on the cover of Ebony and Jet and it's

509
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: already like five years after the fact. So like I

510
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: knew Jerdani I Holaday when she got her record deal,

511
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: like I Am Love and all that stuff. Yeah, and

512
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: then eventually learned about it. So I've never as a

513
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: watcher of award shows as a kid, I didn't see

514
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: that performance, but I do know it was a game changer.

515
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: So is that moment a seminal moment for black actors

516
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: and whatnot in terms of the importance of I'm telling

517
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: You I'm Not Going. Was that really the flag planning

518
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: moment for Black Broadway to establish itself? That we don't

519
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: have to sing in jazz hands like proper Broadway style,

520
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: like we're allowed to.

521
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 4: It didn't happen often, but it had happened before.

522
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: Well, I knew about like Stephanie Mills, I saw the

523
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: whis when I was a kid.

524
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 4: And all of that, but like full out balls to

525
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: the walls gospel like that and authentic had really only

526
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 4: happened prior to that. With Your Arms You Short the

527
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 4: Box of God, which was Carol, which was also Jennifer Howick.

528
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Okay, she was also in that.

529
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 4: She was okay, yeah, but that was like the last

530
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: and don't bother me, I can't cope. Had some gospel

531
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: and it, you know, but like I actually have written

532
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 4: a gospel musical with Kirk Carr.

533
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 6: But I'm trying to.

534
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 4: Get going because the last time there was an authentic

535
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 4: gospel musical on Broadway with authentic gospel music sung by

536
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: the people was Your Arms She Short The Box of God,

537
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 4: which was in the mid seventies. You know, dream Girls

538
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 4: is not a gospel musical. She's a gospel singer, but

539
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: it was not a gospel musical.

540
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 6: There have been gospel.

541
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: Singers in musicals, including myself in Greece. Lily is white

542
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 4: and everything she's ever done, you know, like we have

543
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 4: been in those spaces.

544
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 5: But fascinating, but not our stuff.

545
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: So when Melbourne Moore won heard, I've never seen Pearly,

546
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: so I don't know what roles he played. But when

547
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: she won, that was that she was the leading Okay,

548
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: but does she have a moment.

549
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, she sang I Got loved. Okay, she sang a

550
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: few things, but she sang I Got loved. And that

551
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 4: was real gospel singing. But it also wasn't really a

552
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 4: gospel musical.

553
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: Mm hmm right, give me consistent gospel music.

554
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: In the musical. Yes, it wasn't. There was gospel. There

555
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 4: was gospel in it, and she was an art She

556
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: was more of a traditional.

557
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: Black belting singer.

558
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: It was you could say it was gospel, you know,

559
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 4: it is gospel, but it was it wasn't like Jennifer.

560
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: Jennifer was just so you're seeing that Jennifer was allowed

561
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: to go zero to five hundred and really.

562
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: Okay, and Melbournemore did too, Don't get me wrong, Melbourneore

563
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: did too, and Stephanie Mills did too.

564
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 6: However, the music that they were.

565
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 5: Singing it's gospel. It wasn't gospel.

566
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: It was not gospel. And I'm telling you was actually

567
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 4: written to be a gospel you know, to be in

568
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: that space musically, if that makes sense, just like Home

569
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 4: was not?

570
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: Right, is the off Broadway lane with a slew of

571
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: gospel plays? There? Is it that that lane had to

572
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: be created because mainstream Broadway.

573
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 5: Won't allow, won't open the door that level of gospel.

574
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 4: And I think you're probably talking about the gospel plasic.

575
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: Bro had I created, because I mean, I'm asking you,

576
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: is that the reason why that lane exists?

577
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 4: Well, it's always existed, you know, it's an extension of

578
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 4: what the Chipman circuit was.

579
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, so it's in that space.

580
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: And I'm and I say that with reverence and not

581
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 4: as it disc you know, it's like, yeah, necessity is

582
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: the mother of invention. Yeah, if you wanted to go

583
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: see people in a in a narrative singing gospel music,

584
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 4: you went to a.

585
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 5: Tyler Perry play mm hmm, or.

586
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: Or yeah, David Talbert or whatever they were before he

587
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 4: came into the picture, before those giants of that space

588
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: came into the picture. Right. You know, it's difficult because

589
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 4: Broadway is very secular. Broadways very white.

590
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 5: The Great White Way, and Jesus It's correct.

591
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: Okay, no, but that's very funny. It works.

592
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: But Jez Great Superstar worked because it's written by white

593
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: people from a white perspective. You know, everything that has

594
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 4: anything to do with something biblical were written by white,

595
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 4: secular artists, white men, whether it's Andrew Lloyd Weber, The

596
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: Amazing Technically Dream Coade and or Jesus Christ Superstar. They're

597
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: good stories. Mm hmmm. They chose a good story, you know,

598
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 4: the Prince of Egypt. It's a good story. These people

599
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: are looking for stories to tell, you know, Biblical stories

600
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: are stories that very often have wide ranging audiences.

601
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 6: That's why they're doing them.

602
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: But if you listen to those those musicals, they're not

603
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 4: gospel music unless you rearrange it and make the gospel,

604
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: which then you get into the rights issues and you

605
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 4: got to get permission and all of that.

606
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: Your accolades and your legacy, and I don't mean do

607
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: you have it in you to with stand the abuse

608
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: that it will take to establish or to get your

609
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: production on Broadway. But with the claim that you have

610
00:34:54,239 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: and the proof of your acting, how easy is it

611
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: for you to uh manifest the gospel play that you

612
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: would like to see on Broadway, stories that you want

613
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: to be told.

614
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: It's still it's still like Sisyphis.

615
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter. It's still like.

616
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 5: Thanks Bill, It's still like sorry.

617
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 6: To tell you.

618
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 4: I was just having this conversation with my with the

619
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 4: head of my production company, and all of the passes

620
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 4: that I've gotten on my film and television projects for

621
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: the last you know, two years, they passed on you know,

622
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 4: seven different people have passed on a documentary about me.

623
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 4: I have three Tonys and Emmy and a Grammy, and

624
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 4: I'm still getting passed on.

625
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you still got more material. Maybe it's not

626
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: time for that yet because you still do.

627
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: What I'm saying.

628
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 6: What I'm saying is what I'm saying.

629
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 5: Is it doesn't matter who.

630
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 6: It's different. It's not any easier thout.

631
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: The hill is still it's still a mountain that must

632
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 4: be scaled.

633
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 6: For everything.

634
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: It's all good, But as we all know, it's.

635
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: Like, you're at a point that I think that you

636
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: would be the one person as far as this gospel situation.

637
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: And it's probably and actually we're probably speaking it too power.

638
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: This is just the process. But you're going to be

639
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: that one person to bring all this together and put

640
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: it on a stage.

641
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: Let me ask you then, because I know so. My

642
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: my question to you is how fucking exhausting is it

643
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: to constantly have to push through life being resisted from

644
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: childhood on? And how do you not self sabotage your journey?

645
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: How do you not give up? I have friends who

646
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: literally have given and aren't here with us now, Like,

647
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: how do you just not just throw your hands up

648
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: in the air, and like, like.

649
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: I throw my hands up at least three or four

650
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 4: times a week.

651
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 5: Okay, I was put on this earth.

652
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 4: To do exactly what I'm doing. M. I have been

653
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 4: given a gift. It is my purpose, it is my ministry,

654
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 4: it is my calling. I know that this much for sure. M.

655
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 4: That's the only thing that I can return to in

656
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 4: the moments where I feel like giving up, And when

657
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 4: I tell you today was a dad where I said

658
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 4: I can't do this anymore?

659
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: Do you mind sharing us specifically what happened today? Are

660
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: you allowed to?

661
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

662
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: It was.

663
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 4: It was the last three people who I pitched from

664
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 4: my music documentary who said, no, that's literally about can

665
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 4: one become a pop star in their fifties.

666
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 6: Can that happen?

667
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: If it can.

668
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 6: Happen, it would be me.

669
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: And that is the journey of this documentary that my

670
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: whole life and the thing is is that I'm a

671
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 4: black fagot in America. And I use that word sagot

672
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: because that's how I'm treated.

673
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 6: It's a violent word.

674
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 4: And everybody should hear it, right, just like grab her

675
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 4: by the pussy, right, everybody got on the news and

676
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: change the word.

677
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 6: Don't change the word.

678
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 4: Bleep it out so people can remember.

679
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 6: What the fuck he said.

680
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, the reason why he has ascended to the heights

681
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 4: that he's ascended is because every person has given them

682
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: a pass. I don't get passes like.

683
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 6: That, you know.

684
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 4: And and so for me it's like I was never

685
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 4: supposed to be here to begin with. I was never

686
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 4: supposed to be this person ever ever, ever, ever, ever,

687
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 4: ever ever ever ever, KICKI Boots wasn't supposed to happen.

688
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: And then when KICKI Boots happened, he was like, well, yeah,

689
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 4: he's playing a drag ring. Yeah we can see that,

690
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: but that's it. That's where the capital is.

691
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 6: Gonna be in me movies, you know, like you know.

692
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 4: My biggest dream at fifteen years old, when I was

693
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: finally able to buy my own music go hearkening back

694
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 4: to that, you know, I went and started. I mean,

695
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: by the time I was eighteen years old, I had

696
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 4: like seven hundred CDs because I was like just trying

697
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: to you know, just like who is that?

698
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 6: And what is this?

699
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 4: And why don't I know that? And you know, like

700
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 4: you know, just educating myself about bodies, about black music

701
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 4: outside of the church. You know, my biggest dream was

702
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 4: to be the male Whitney Houston, you know, and then

703
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 4: all of this and then here I am.

704
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 5: So that's why this documentary is going to be dope.

705
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: And can I tell you, Billy, when you watch that

706
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: Rosie old Donald clip that you were on back in

707
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: the day. In my mind, because I follow your career heavily,

708
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: as not too many things that I haven't watched that

709
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: you have been in in my mind, I think he

710
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: wants that so bad.

711
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 5: And like, so now that I know that Mona.

712
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: Lisa is the story of you becoming this pop star,

713
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 2: it's got to be gut wrenching. And also people must

714
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: have all kinds of misunderstandings as to why you don't

715
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 2: totally feel fulfilled, even with.

716
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 5: All of those awards, with all that stuff.

717
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: You go back to that Rosie ol Donald video, you

718
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 2: go back to when you were signed as a solo artist,

719
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: and it seems like that piece, right there is one

720
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: of the lone pieces that's missing for you is the gift, right, yeah.

721
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 4: Man, and the thing is the gift. For the first

722
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: twenty five years of my career, I couldn't.

723
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 8: Break through in the acting world because the gatekeepers of

724
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 8: that world, well, he's just a singer.

725
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 6: So then I scale that mountain.

726
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: I went Emmy's for Best Lead and Emmy for Best

727
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 4: Lead after in a Drama series as a said yes

728
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: for the first time in history. And now it's like, oh,

729
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 4: I didn't know bras Out is sing.

730
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 5: That's true. That's true. They were surprised when you started

731
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 5: singing in polls.

732
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 6: That's true.

733
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: See, I didn't know you acted. I knew you could sing.

734
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know you acted.

735
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 2: Oh my god, well yeah yeah, no, no, no, no, no again,

736
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: I know you, you knew I knew ninety six, like

737
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: I didn't know.

738
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but people got on the Billy Porter train. People

739
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 4: because my career is over thirty years now, right, and

740
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 4: Black on cracking. I don't look like what I've been through.

741
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 4: People have gotten on the Billy Porter train at different stops.

742
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: True, right, So let me tell you this story.

743
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 6: So do you remember Sandy Gallen.

744
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the man used to work with Michael Jackson.

745
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 4: Michael Jackson Janney Barb saying Neil Diamond like so Rosie o'donald.

746
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 4: He represented ros O Donald. When I was in the

747
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 4: Revival of Greece. This is nineteen ninety four. I sang

748
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 4: Beautiful Dropout. I did the arrangement. Go listen to that too.

749
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 4: It's a gospel arrangement of you. Ooh, I did the

750
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 4: arrangement nine minutes long. They destroyed it for me because

751
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 4: they made me a coon.

752
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 6: Essentially.

753
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 4: They dressed me in a white space suit, put me

754
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 4: in fourteen inches of orange rubber hair. Just don't watch it.

755
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 4: You also have to read the memoir. You understand all

756
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: of it. But I meet with Sandy Gallen. He asks

757
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: me what I want to do, and all of the

758
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 4: things and multi hyphenates that I'm doing right now is

759
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 4: what I said.

760
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 6: And he said to me, you can't do everything.

761
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 4: You have to choose one thing because audiences can't.

762
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 6: They can't receive more than one thing.

763
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: And I said at twenty four years old, and I

764
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 4: don't know how I had the presidence of mind to

765
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 4: do this, but I said, with all due respect, mister Gallan,

766
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 4: once again, I'm a black saggot in America. If I

767
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 4: choose one thing and it doesn't work out, I am

768
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 4: asked out. All these years later, I've proven him wrong

769
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 4: in every single way.

770
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 6: Exactly. The music.

771
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 5: The music. That's what I felt.

772
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 4: The music is the gift. What are y'all talking about?

773
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: It's but you know what, sometimes here's the songs to

774
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes have you realized the song part of the music,

775
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: Like you know, your voice is fucking stupendous.

776
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 5: I mean explain it's more intellectually than I am.

777
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 4: But sometimes they've been saying that for years Black MoMA

778
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 4: lise I has the song.

779
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 5: No you got it? But no more excuses now now, no.

780
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: More excuses about that Black MoMA lise I has the songs.

781
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 4: I was there. I'm there with the top writers in

782
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: the business, Andrew and Martin.

783
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 6: Three months before she died.

784
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: Mmm, justin trantl who's the number one pop writer in

785
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 4: the business. Another thing that I wanted to talk about

786
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 4: in the documentary is that because I'm theater based.

787
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 5: I'm corny. So that is a thing.

788
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: Bill, I'm theater.

789
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 4: Based, and because I come from the theater, I'm corny.

790
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 4: Theater is corny until these motherfuckers want an ego.

791
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, how they want to go to a show?

792
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 4: Yes, so they want to take.

793
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 3: Their wife to a show or whoever the fuck it is?

794
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, all of a sudden, No shame right, everybody has

795
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 4: dreams and should you know.

796
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: But it's an interesting thing, nobilly, because who are the

797
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: successful theater after singers who have translated.

798
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 5: It's like Bett Mitler.

799
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 7: The doors are bolt headed shut for us does nothing

800
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 7: but open our arms to everybody, and the gatekeepers of

801
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 7: the music industry keep the those doors bolted shut.

802
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 4: It's not just me anymore. It's me, it's Leslie Oldham Junior.

803
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 4: It's Cynthia Arinbo. It's so short to bean, you see,

804
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: so short of being now because you need her to

805
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 4: play your mother's.

806
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: This is the weird thing, because ah, man, I'm frozen

807
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 1: only because I'm realizing how close our stories are parallel.

808
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: Because so the thing is is that I don't know,

809
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: like if you were born in a musical fan I

810
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: don't know what your childhood journey was.

811
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 6: Like, do you think of Jayson family?

812
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, if I were a betting man, you know,

813
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: I would have thought that I'm going to make it

814
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: with the first love of my life, which is music. Now, okay,

815
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: I'm also insatiable by nature, so of course, like you know,

816
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: you got you gotta get outside of yourself to to

817
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: to see it. But this kind of tortoise and hair

818
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 1: journey I've been on with music has been so slow

819
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: that even despite despite the accolades, I still feel like

820
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: I've not made it. Of course, other people have really

821
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: sit on the sidelines get angry when I say that,

822
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: because it's like, dude, we would chop our left bum.

823
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: Yeah you as a person, well yeah. But my whole

824
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: point is that when my third chapter started happening, i e.

825
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: Directing movies, it's like, all right, good news, bad news here.

826
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: Everything you ever dreamed for your life to happen is

827
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: going to happen. And I'm like, what's the bad news?

828
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: It's not going to be music that gets you there. Correct,

829
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: And despite me getting to a place where I don't

830
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: feel like a sealist artist or whatever, there's this itching,

831
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: this longing I have to just if I can just

832
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: get what I have now, But it's were my music

833
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: because it's like, dude, when you grow up with five

834
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: thousand records in the house, when you play radio city

835
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: music hall at at twelve, when you everything I've done

836
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: with music, it's like, ah, cannot just can I just

837
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: have this one thing? God? Like can you?

838
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 4: And there are people on this planet that don't even know.

839
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 4: I say, I sang on the show?

840
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 6: Did you watch the show?

841
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 4: But it doesn't register when you're and it goes the

842
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 4: opposite way. For musicians. It's like when you are considered

843
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 4: an actor and you sing on a show, audiences do

844
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 4: not receive you as a singer or a recording.

845
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 6: They receive you as a character who is singing on

846
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 6: a show.

847
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 4: When recording artists come and try to act, there's a

848
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 4: little bit of the same resistance.

849
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, but.

850
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: Not nearly as much as thesite.

851
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 3: But like, what if you look at it from opposite perspective,

852
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 3: like if you if you have those other things that

853
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: they're working great, it makes it makes the music thing

854
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 3: a mirror, Like you've been saving on music for your

855
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: whole life, and those other successes make you want to

856
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: get to that level of success with your music, like

857
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 3: you want to win the Oscar of Documentary as a musician,

858
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 3: but you haven't gotten to yet. And I feel like

859
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: that's is that.

860
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: A bad thing?

861
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: I know, if it's a bad thing, that's how I

862
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: look at it.

863
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: The thing is, during the pandemic, I learned a lot

864
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: about myself, and I learned there was one week, I

865
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: think all of July, you know, like it was hard

866
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: to walk outside and want a mask. So I had

867
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: a car and that was the one place where I

868
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: could just take my mask off and be out in

869
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: the world and not have to you know. And I'm

870
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: living out in the country, so sometimes I would do

871
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: these four hour drives, you know, upstate New York to

872
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: go to you know. And I decided the entire month

873
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: of July, I'm gonna listen to the entire roots discography

874
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: and have a long conversation with myself, like what is

875
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 1: it about these sixteen records that isn't fulfilling the dream

876
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: of like I made it and some of these records

877
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: are actually you know, someone platinum, someone awards, But what

878
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: is it about? So this is my conclusion, and a

879
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: lot of it happened because again, you know, I DJ'ed

880
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, during the pandemic, I was DJing online,

881
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: and because I wasn't doing my club set, I was

882
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: actually playing music I liked. So essentially all of twenty

883
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: twenty I spent nine ten months, damn near three to

884
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: five hours every day playing every type of music, which

885
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: is somehow I started to say, wow, I don't think

886
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: I know how to write a song, and then I realized,

887
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: oh shit, every Root song came from soundcheck, came from

888
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: da da da da. We don't know what a melody is.

889
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: So suddenly I'm realizing I have to write learn how

890
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: to write songs. So in the last five years, I've

891
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: gotten a crash course on what a melody is. So

892
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: similar to you. With this Mona Lisa project, I'm literally

893
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: putting the farm on this next Roots album into because

894
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: it just now I'm embarrassed. I'm like, how do I

895
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: have seventeen records and people are like, oh, you guys

896
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: are the earth win and Fire of hip hop. No no, no, no,

897
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: the grateful dead of hip hop. And it's like we're

898
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: still struggling to get to the place we should be.

899
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 5: Right, So was that the goal though, Yeah, that's an

900
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 5: interesting with the goal to.

901
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: Write singles, I feel like the goal is is like,

902
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 3: you're the greatest live hip hop and in the history

903
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: of hip.

904
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,959
Speaker 5: Hop with one of the greatest ympsees of all time.

905
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 3: End of story, Like does it matter if you have

906
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 3: any singles?

907
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: Is that?

908
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: What about?

909
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: Can I just shout out to Rich Nichols and Diyce

910
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: Raw who actually did make some really help make some

911
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: great roots albums, like are you serious?

912
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but come on, dog eat Layah. You're the

913
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: first person to plant it in the seed when things

914
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: fall apart came out you fua. You asked me, Hey,

915
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: how come the big single that is breaking you guys out?

916
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: Why is that buried at the end of side too? Yes,

917
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: I did say that because my logic was, Okay, in

918
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: this hour fifteen minute record, I'm going to place the

919
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: bait towards the end to make you guys listen to that.

920
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: And you kind of eye rolled, But come on, liya,

921
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: you understand that we live in a single society now

922
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 1: and not to hijack this interview because I'm gonna get

923
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 1: back to you, billy. But my point was the goal

924
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: for me and people all diden say that, like, oh,

925
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: you guys don't care like you are the roots either.

926
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: People often I care because it's like the thing is,

927
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: that's the thing like with this pedigree of knowledge of music,

928
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: like the level of commitment. I have more commitments to

929
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: music than I do to besides my relationship with Tarik,

930
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't think I've committed to anything as long as

931
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: I've committed to music. And to not like to be

932
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: able to tell people stories and to study people and

933
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: to write their books, but not to do it for

934
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: myself is almost rather jarring. And then yes, I know

935
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: it's the subjective opinion, but when you watch people significantly

936
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: less talented than you are, it just it burns me inside.

937
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: And so but here's the thing though, and this is

938
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: why I went through that whole field to ask you,

939
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: because sometimes I ask myself, Okay, was it ever meant

940
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: in the cards for music to be my path? Because

941
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: now I believe in listening to the universe. Yeah, And

942
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: I know I'm stubborn. I know I'm stubborn as fuck,

943
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: and I want to control every thing and I want

944
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: my version of how I want my life to go

945
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: to be gospel. Now I'm just learning, like, all right,

946
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: what do y'all want me to do? And it's like

947
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: my world is opening up everywhere by music. So I'm

948
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: asking you, are you willing to walk away from music

949
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: knowing that other avenues have opened for you?

950
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 4: I wouldn't call it walking away because I've already done it.

951
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 4: The reason why I've been able to have such an

952
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 4: expansion in my life, you know, there are a few reasons,

953
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 4: but the biggest one was nine to eleven, nine to twelve,

954
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 4: two thousand and one. I lost my voice to severe

955
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 4: acid reflux for about five to seven years, and I

956
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 4: had been asking the universe. I've been asking God, whatever

957
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 4: it is that you know, I'm more than my voice.

958
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 4: I'm more than my voice. I'm more than my voice. Lord,

959
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 4: Please help me understand and help the world understand that

960
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 4: I'm more than my voice.

961
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: Were you in New Yorker? Like what was the I

962
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: was all over, I was in LA I was psychological or.

963
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 4: It was totally psychological. And so when I lost my voice,

964
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 4: I literally knew why, and I was like, okay, Lord,

965
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 4: you know because my voice, my singing voice, was my identity,

966
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 4: My singing voice was my savior. My singing voice was

967
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 4: what got me out, like the basketball players, like the

968
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 4: sports people. It got me out of my circumstance. It

969
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 4: allowed for me to be in spaces where I could

970
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 4: learn how to dream beyond my circumstance. So my entire

971
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 4: identity was wrapped up in that. And I had and

972
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 4: the universe, God whatever knew that if I could keep

973
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 4: singing and just get them jobs and the jobs that

974
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 4: I didn't mark, then I would just keep doing that

975
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 4: because I wouldn't have the courage to do anything else.

976
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 6: It was in that five.

977
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 8: To seven year period where my mind was able to expand.

978
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 8: It's like I've been given more than just one gift.

979
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 8: I can act, I can direct, I can write. I

980
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 8: went to screenwriting school, you know. I was like, wait,

981
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 8: I don't have to wait for somebody else.

982
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: And George C.

983
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 4: Will's my one of my mentors, said, you can't wait

984
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 4: for anybody to ever give you permission to practice your art.

985
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 4: You have to be doing it all the time, even

986
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 4: when no one's listening, and most of the time no

987
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 4: one will be listening. That's why I have five albums.

988
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 4: This is not my second album, it's my six catch

989
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 4: up people. I'm doing it whether y'all listen or not.

990
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 4: I'm doing it whether you're watching or not. And all

991
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 4: of the albums are fierce, so y'all can catch up

992
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 4: when it's time. But for me, it's like most of

993
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,479
Speaker 4: the time, I can feel like that. Most the time,

994
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 4: I can harness the power of just being present and

995
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 4: letting the universe take me where I'm supposed to go.

996
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 4: I have ascended to heights that I never dreamed. I

997
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 4: have a star on the Hollywood Walk and saying that

998
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 4: wasn't a dream. I didn't even think anything, you know, like,

999
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 4: it's like it's been magical and simultaneously my question. I

1000
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 4: start to ask myself the question today, when is it enough?

1001
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 3: No?

1002
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 6: When is it enough?

1003
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 4: I am enough? Just as I am, I am enough.

1004
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 6: I have to say it to myself multiple times a day.

1005
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 5: Is this just COVID Billy? Do you feel?

1006
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: Because I remember some of your posts you were making

1007
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 2: during these COVID times and I really appreciated your truth

1008
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 2: and telling where life really is. You see what you

1009
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: see and what you don't see. So how you feel today?

1010
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 5: Is that post?

1011
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 2: That feeling now that you've hit with people you know

1012
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,479
Speaker 2: from perception, people might say a little bottom in that way.

1013
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I was always headed in this direction

1014
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 4: because of my spirituality, because you know, I choose joy,

1015
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 4: I choose to be positive.

1016
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 6: These are choices that you have to make. They're active.

1017
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 4: I choose love. Love is active. I choose all of

1018
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 4: these things for myself so that I could just stay sane,

1019
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 4: because because this world will drive you insane if you

1020
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 4: let it. So, I mean, so for me, it's about

1021
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 4: always landing on You're enough, Philly, because everything on the

1022
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 4: planet will tell you the opposite of that.

1023
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 6: Many things will tell you the opposite of that.

1024
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: What year did your last album come out? What year

1025
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: did my not Black Mona Lisa Volume one? Yes, Volume one.

1026
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 6: Black Mona Lisa came out last November?

1027
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: Theyab before that, beyond before that.

1028
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 6: The album before that was Billy Porter Presents the Soul of.

1029
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 4: Richard Rogers okay and twenty seventeen, and then before that

1030
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 4: it was Billy's Back on Broadway twenty fourteen, and then

1031
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 4: before that it was at the Corner of Broadway and

1032
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 4: Soul Live from Joe's Bud.

1033
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 6: And then the first one was ninety four untitled.

1034
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: On A and m Okay.

1035
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 6: But this poet, you know this So the.

1036
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 4: Cookout sessions have come about because instead of simply just

1037
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 4: being mad, instead of you know, feeling sorry for myself

1038
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 4: and what have you, you know, for me, it's like, well,

1039
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 4: what's my plan? And how am I going to overcome this?

1040
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 4: Because I just have to keep working. I just have

1041
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 4: to keep pressing. I just have to keep pressing forward

1042
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 4: and be the best version of whatever it is.

1043
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 6: So I hired a new manager, We.

1044
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 4: Hunkered down, We made a business plan.

1045
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1046
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 4: The cookout session is about harnessing my message, making sure

1047
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,439
Speaker 4: that everybody knows who I am.

1048
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: You know.

1049
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 4: One of the things that I realized in trying to

1050
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: figure this out is there is confusion. How do I

1051
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 4: stop the confusion?

1052
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 6: Is he a singer? Is he you know?

1053
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 4: Like you know, Sandy Galla said, confused people get confused.

1054
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 4: There will be no confusion, you know, because what I

1055
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 4: landed on is, oh, as a recording artist, I need

1056
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 4: a persona. I have to do what Donald Glover did.

1057
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 4: I have to be my version of Talvis Schambino so

1058
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 4: that people are it's like, oh, that's a different person,

1059
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 4: that's a different the team.

1060
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: You know.

1061
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 6: I'm excited about that.

1062
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 4: So my documentary is Billy Porter is black Mona Lisa.

1063
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 4: You're coming to see black Mona Lisa. That's a whole

1064
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 4: different thing. So I Beyonce even did it with I

1065
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 4: Am Sat Fears on her fourth album. I feel like

1066
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 4: I have hit on something that has the possibility to

1067
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 4: take me to the next level. Whatever that level, whatever

1068
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 4: the level is. The dream is to be playing out stadiums,

1069
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,479
Speaker 4: but the reality is, I just want people to listen

1070
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 4: to my music.

1071
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: So question, should you make it as black Mona Lisa.

1072
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: We still have that itching, like, ah, okay, now i

1073
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: want to do this as Billy.

1074
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 4: Porter because I'm still Billy Porter, okay, And I've already

1075
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 4: established myself as Billy Porter, right So now when the

1076
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 4: gigs come in and somebody wants me to go and

1077
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 4: do a theater, when PBS calls, right it says like

1078
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 4: they have and says, we want you to do Billy

1079
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 4: Porter and Friends for New Year's Eve.

1080
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: Nice, I can do Billy Porter.

1081
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 4: In that space, black Mona Lisa is somebody else, So

1082
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: then I could bring back Mona Lisa on inside of

1083
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 4: my Billy Porter. So it really has to be that distinct.

1084
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 4: I think, at least I'm gonna try to do it

1085
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 4: like that. At least I'm trying to do it like

1086
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 4: that now because I've tried all the other ways. So

1087
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 4: you know, let's see who knows, you know, But I

1088
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: think there's something in it.

1089
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 6: I'm really excited about it.

1090
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 4: And with these summer tours and with you know, my

1091
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 4: tour last year, and you.

1092
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 6: Know my imaging now you know, and.

1093
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 4: Like when you look at my visuals, when you look

1094
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 4: at that stuff, it now can make sense because there's

1095
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 4: a separation. People who know Billy Porter from theater are

1096
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 4: confused by this music because they know me as a

1097
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 4: theater person. They know Kinky Boots, so they're confused, you know.

1098
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 6: But you turn on bonut saying and don't have problems.

1099
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 4: So if I'm black Mona Lisa, then you can make

1100
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 4: the separation.

1101
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: Got it?

1102
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 6: See what I'm saying.

1103
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 5: Oh that's your soul, you fears? Okay, yeah, what's your side?

1104
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 5: Your fears?

1105
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: Hold up?

1106
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: This is where part one is, but you have to

1107
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 2: come back next week or check out your podcast for

1108
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 2: part two of that QLs with Billy Porter, because in

1109
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: that episode, Billy is more real and more raw about

1110
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: his activism for several causes and shout out to all

1111
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: my polls fans.

1112
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 5: This is the conversation about his character. Pray tell that

1113
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 5: you have been waiting for. Also, don't forget.

1114
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 2: Make sure you check out Billy's new EP, Black Mona

1115
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: Lisa Volume two, The Cookout Sessions, which is out now,

1116
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 2: see you next time.

1117
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: How Much Love Supreme is the production of iHeart Radio.

1118
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1119
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.