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Speaker 1: Y'all. The kid got some exciting news to share with y'all.

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Speaker 1: So the Professional Homegirl Coloring Book will be available at

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Speaker 1: Blue Stockings Bookstore and Lower East Side this weekend. But

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Speaker 1: that being said, to all of my New York listeners

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Speaker 1: or if you are visiting the Tri state area, please

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Speaker 1: make sure to go grab your Professional Homegirl Coloring Book

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Speaker 1: at Blue Stockings Bookstore at one sixteen Sulpix Street, New York,

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Speaker 1: New York, one zero zero zero. To hold me down,

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Speaker 1: don't hold me up, chow. Also, I want to give

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Speaker 1: you all a little heads up on the audio for

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Speaker 1: this week. So for some reason, I saw a little

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Speaker 1: faint when I speak, but you can stare and hear me.

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Speaker 1: So you ain't the best, but it'll do. You can

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Speaker 1: hear me, I promise, because I can hear me. I've

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Speaker 1: been having some technical issues, but I'm working on it,

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Speaker 1: so please please please bear with me. I really do

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Speaker 1: hope you all enjoy this week's episode and don't forget

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Speaker 1: to grab you'all Professional Homegirl Coloring Book at Blue stock

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Speaker 1: and Look Store. As always, thank you all so much,

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Speaker 1: and until next time, everyone later, welcome you are now

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Speaker 1: listening to the Professional Professional. Hey, Professional Home Girls is

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Speaker 1: the kid of a name from the PSG podcast, the

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Speaker 1: only place where you would hear interviews from black women

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Speaker 1: an honestly on stories that were enlightened and expand on

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Speaker 1: taboo topics. Now, if you hear someone that sounds familiar,

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Speaker 1: mind of business that pays you child. If you like

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Please five star reviews only. Hold me Down,

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Speaker 1: Don't Hold me Up. Merch is now available on the

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Speaker 1: site as well as my book list, so please make

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Speaker 1: sure you visit the link in the show notes below.

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Speaker 1: You can connect with the kids on Instagram at the

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Speaker 1: Professional Homegirl and at the PhD podcast. If you are

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, please follow me at the PhD podcast now.

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Speaker 1: If you are all caught up with episode, listen to

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Speaker 1: the bonus episodes by supporting the PSD podcast Patreon account.

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Speaker 1: To support, please visit www dot patreon dot com. Forward

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Speaker 1: slash the PSD podcast now. Please keep in mind that

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Speaker 1: all of my guests are anonymous. So let's again this

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Speaker 1: week's episode, So I Agree book titled The Vanishing Half

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Speaker 1: by Brett Burtnet. Have you heard that book? I haven't

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Speaker 1: amazing a little long within the beginning, but it was

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Speaker 1: really good and I don't want to get some much

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Speaker 1: information away, but one of the characters and the book

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Speaker 1: was white passing. So I became very intreagued with the term.

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Speaker 1: And even though I don't hear this term a lot,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to learn more about it and also educate

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Speaker 1: the PhD community. So would that be a thing my

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Speaker 1: guests on the show. So to my guests, how are

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Speaker 1: you feeling? I'm feeling excited, nervous but good, Yeah, nervous

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Speaker 1: back her voice. Yeah, Now before we get is it

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Speaker 1: me or does it seem like white pass and it's

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Speaker 1: getting more attention lately? Yes, you're right, it is getting

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Speaker 1: more attention lately, and I think it's um, it's time,

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Speaker 1: you know that I get it gets attention. I think

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Speaker 1: for a long time, white passing people have been like

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Speaker 1: going under the radar and taking up space and places

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Speaker 1: that they shouldn't. So I think people are really questioning,

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Speaker 1: you know, identity and raising stuff like that. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of it's getting more attention now for a reason.

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Speaker 1: I think you're explaying well white pass is Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: you know, there's some controversy with even the term white

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Speaker 1: passing because some people don't like it. But what it means,

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Speaker 1: it's basically that someone who is I passed as someone

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Speaker 1: who is black, indigenous, person of color passes as white

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Speaker 1: where they come off as white from what they look like.

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Speaker 1: That's you know, I've heard people don't like to turn

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Speaker 1: passing because it kind of insinuates, like, um, like you

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Speaker 1: get a good grade, like oh, you you passed, so

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Speaker 1: that makes you good. And then some people say they

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Speaker 1: don't like the word white passing because they're like, you're

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Speaker 1: not white passing, you're just white, Like don't give it

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Speaker 1: a you know, like, don't say that you're passing when

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Speaker 1: you're actually just white. So some people are just trying

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Speaker 1: to eliminate the term altogether, but not white because most

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Speaker 1: people that are that here, they are passing are people

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Speaker 1: of color, right right right, and that is the definition.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I hear like there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: pain when it comes to people saying that, and I

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Speaker 1: think is because what I said at the beginning, like

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Speaker 1: white passing, people have been taken up space where they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be mhm. So you know, I hear, I hear

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Speaker 1: what people are like, stop saying your white passing and

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Speaker 1: say you're white the other parts that are affiliated with

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Speaker 1: white passing. Yeah, so this I just heard this new

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Speaker 1: one called white coated. Oh wow, I never heard that one.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That one's been coming up recently, white presenting,

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Speaker 1: white assuming, white adjacent as some other terms really like

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, I never heard of something. I can only

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Speaker 1: imagine of people that's in the community, the new at

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Speaker 1: that come with this mm hmm. Exactly, lots of new ones.

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Speaker 1: So I want to give the listeners a visual of you,

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Speaker 1: because when I saw you, I knew you were a

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Speaker 1: white I saw or I see a person of teller.

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Speaker 1: So can you please the listeners more about your background

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Speaker 1: mm hmm. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you. That's

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Speaker 1: a compliment to me. Really, yeah, it is. It is. Um.

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Speaker 1: So my background is I'm Dominican. My parents are from

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Speaker 1: Dominican Republic immigrants, and so Dominicans have a out of

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Speaker 1: complexity because of colonization m hm. And so in my

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Speaker 1: lineage there is Spanish of course colonizers, and then there

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Speaker 1: um indigenous dain and then there is Africans from the

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Speaker 1: folks the people that were then brought to the island.

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Speaker 1: M So you can say you're a white pass white apparent,

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Speaker 1: I go, but I say white passing. That's the term

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Speaker 1: that resonates with me the most, right now. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: don't even mean thank you could be all white and

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Speaker 1: that they do how often? Yeah, so like it depends

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Speaker 1: on unwhere, right, So I always say that, like when

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Speaker 1: I enter white spaces, I can get in the door

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Speaker 1: without and without white people being like, oh who is she?

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Speaker 1: She doesn't belong here? Right, Like I feel it energetically

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Speaker 1: when I come in the door. I can get in

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Speaker 1: the door, and I'm like, I'm good. But once people like,

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Speaker 1: once I get closer, once I start talking, once you

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Speaker 1: start interacting, then I feel white people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's not white. So it listance like that. And then

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Speaker 1: there's been times where I've been um in POC spaces.

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Speaker 1: So I went to like a meditation group once that

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Speaker 1: was for BIPOC, and I got feedback from someone who

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Speaker 1: was in the group afterwards, and she said that when

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Speaker 1: she came in the group and she saw me, she's like,

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Speaker 1: what's this white girl doing here? So yeah, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: not from New York, thank you? Yeah exactly, that's and

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Speaker 1: that's so that's what I'm saying exactly, so where you're at,

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Speaker 1: where you're at matters, right, So in New York City,

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Speaker 1: I'm not white New York City that way, but in

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Speaker 1: other spaces, So this is in Colorado, right, this isn't

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Speaker 1: a place where there isn't that this diversity? Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: the exhausted explaining your race all the time, Yes, it is.

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Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard, right because it's like so many

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Speaker 1: parts of my identity and who I am getting raised.

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Speaker 1: And also you know, it's just I've learned to deal

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Speaker 1: with it as as part of the consequences of being

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Speaker 1: white passing, right, And I know that it's not my struggle.

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Speaker 1: Isn't the struggle of someone that's more meleinated, right, So

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know I've earned to deal with that

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Speaker 1: mm hm. And how did you deal with it? I

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Speaker 1: mean talking with people about it, right, talking with other

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Speaker 1: white passing friends, creating spaces where I can then, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, working with shame has been a big one mhm.

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Speaker 1: And using all the tools that I know to use,

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Speaker 1: right to just like be kind to myself, be compassionate

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Speaker 1: with myself. Um. I think the biggest piece is like,

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Speaker 1: as I've been having these conversations. I'm clear about who

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Speaker 1: I am. So as long as I know who I am,

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Speaker 1: if someone else wants to tell me who they think

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Speaker 1: I am, and it's like, all right, like that's on them,

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't. It doesn't deter me, right because I'm

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Speaker 1: clear in my inner world about who I am. And

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Speaker 1: that's going to go on to my next question about

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Speaker 1: misconceptions of white passing. Because I was reading a lot

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Speaker 1: of articles and I was exhausted. I was like, I'm exhausted.

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Speaker 1: I know you all got to be exhausted. The language artical,

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Speaker 1: how you identify your UM. And one of the misconceptions

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Speaker 1: that I was reading about what um a personal palitans

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Speaker 1: like white hasn't mm hmm m m. Yeah. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of misconceptions, right, yeah, and I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of them. Like that's a big part of like it's

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Speaker 1: it's based on what other people see about who you are.

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Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of the misconceptions is

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Speaker 1: that we don't carry the pain, right of like even

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Speaker 1: though we are white passing, we still have racial trauma

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Speaker 1: because of our ancestors, right, and we're talking about like

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Speaker 1: epigenetic like trauma lives in the body and also what

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Speaker 1: comes with you know, being part of a bipop community.

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Speaker 1: There's also poverty that we grew up with. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of intersections. Um. So I think a misconception is

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Speaker 1: that why passing people are very privileged all the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that we really have nothing to complain about.

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Speaker 1: And that's that that one was hard because it's like,

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Speaker 1: actually there's a lot of pain and yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: like there's not there's a lot of non belonging, Like

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Speaker 1: there's not really spaces where we feel like we actually belong. Mhmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I would say that's the biggest misconception. Nothing I want

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Speaker 1: past white And the reason why I asked this because

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Speaker 1: it goes beyond physical appearance, right yeah, yeah, yeah, goes

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Speaker 1: beyond It's like, so yeah, there's physical aperience, right, So

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Speaker 1: there's skin tone obviously, and then there's features, right, like

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Speaker 1: no there right, all of that, and then there's like

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Speaker 1: you know, some people call it acting way or there's

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Speaker 1: like the way you talk right, the way the way

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Speaker 1: you behave um that can also some don't get labeled

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Speaker 1: labeled that's white passing. And I also read about the

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Speaker 1: location of clothes and you're just in your whole right story.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, exactly. So what ways do you think

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Speaker 1: white pants affect on mental health? Mm hmm, let's take

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Speaker 1: a question. Oh, I mean it, you know from from

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Speaker 1: the communities I've been in it, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: depressions right when you were like consistently don't find spaces

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Speaker 1: where you can be yourself and that's hard and that

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Speaker 1: causes depression anxiety, right of like the cold switching piece

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Speaker 1: of like not really knowing how to act where like

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Speaker 1: who's going to accept me, who's not? Um, who's gonna

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Speaker 1: think I'm white? Who's going to normal person of color? Um?

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Speaker 1: That comes up with a lout of anxiety, a lot

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Speaker 1: of social anxiety. There's a lot of fear. It's really

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Speaker 1: interesting because it's maybe this goes back a little bit

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Speaker 1: to the misconception, but more and more what I see

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Speaker 1: with why passing people that were actually more afraid to

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Speaker 1: take up space because we don't we don't want to

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Speaker 1: be the why passing person taking up space? Or do

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Speaker 1: you feel like, yeah, because we feel like we don't

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Speaker 1: belong mum. So yeah, that that's that has a huge impact.

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Speaker 1: A lot of social anxiety, not knowing when to speak,

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Speaker 1: who to speak to, who's safe to speak to? One

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Speaker 1: of that type of things. Oh yeah, definitely self esteem.

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Speaker 1: That's a big one, right because if at the core

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Speaker 1: you feel like you don't belong and that's so important

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Speaker 1: to self esteem. Mm hm you know, like I know

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Speaker 1: for me, that's that's a big piece of like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like whore my people like you know, m hmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm just I'm curious with you because do you

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Speaker 1: identify as Dominicans? I do? Yeah, So do you not

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable within the community? Mm hmm, good question. I

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Speaker 1: do and I don't. Why So this is this is

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Speaker 1: the piece where it's like the the complexity of all

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Speaker 1: of it because it's like I do, and like you know,

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Speaker 1: the food, the music, um, you know, the cultural piece,

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Speaker 1: the way we talk like I'm I'm Dominican. But like

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Speaker 1: let's say I go when I go to d R, right,

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Speaker 1: like when I go to Dominican Republic, my cousins are like,

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Speaker 1: you're not Dominican, like right, especially uh and because you're

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Speaker 1: Americanized because I'm Americanized. Yeah, and also because I look

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Speaker 1: like so them when that is true. The most Dominicans

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Speaker 1: I know, like their complexions were Markans. But also there

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Speaker 1: are so many different range because when it's also our

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Speaker 1: community mm hm m hmm. Right right, And then you know,

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Speaker 1: I was constantly told growing up in school by my

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Speaker 1: peers around Americans, peers like, you don't look do American,

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Speaker 1: you don't act Domericans feel comfortable because there might people culturally.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm always like, oh, do I belong here?

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Speaker 1: Do I sit in here? Do they think I'm do Americans?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel white people? No? White people? Right right,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think white people feel comfortable white people

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Speaker 1: tell because maybe the one to my yeah, then white allies,

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Speaker 1: but y'all, y'all, like you'd be crazy. That's another topnic.

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Speaker 1: So privileges that come with white passa yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: know it's and this one also depends again on the

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Speaker 1: features on location. So I'll say for me, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I get into the spaces, right, so I get access

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Speaker 1: two spaces by the way I look. Um, I get

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Speaker 1: asked to speak, I've noticed more often than emlinated peers. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, And in my Dominican culture, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: around like good hair, bad hair language. I was always

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Speaker 1: pulled that had good hair. Mm hmm. Um, you know

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Speaker 1: I was told that was pretty because I have light skin. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so those are those I feel like, are the are

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Speaker 1: the visible ways that have prevision and there's like the

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Speaker 1: invisible ways of like I don't even know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how many times I've I've gotten

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Speaker 1: a pass to something or access to a place because

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Speaker 1: of being white passing. Now, I'll give you your location

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Speaker 1: nowhere you're not gonna anymore right up north? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: am up. I thought you was. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I thought you were living down now? No? No, m hm.

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Speaker 1: So do you think white pass and can benefit the

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Speaker 1: lots of others? Mm hmm, you know I do. I

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Speaker 1: actually do, right a person who is aware, who's done

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Speaker 1: some work. I think, you know, once we get access

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Speaker 1: to these spaces right that have power, these white spaces,

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Speaker 1: we can bring in by people. Um, we can pass

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Speaker 1: the mic. And I also feel like why passing people?

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Speaker 1: Something I've noticed. I think it's really beautiful. We have

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Speaker 1: we have the ability to like live in the nuance

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Speaker 1: of things. M So we can hold complex feelings at once.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, Um, so it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't we don't jump to like right and wrong

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Speaker 1: right away because we know that our experiences, right, we

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Speaker 1: don't drum to like black and white, like not everything

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Speaker 1: is black and white, because clearly our experiences are We're

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Speaker 1: not either black or white. So we have the ability

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Speaker 1: of like seeing the middle ground of things, of being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking for the nuances of something rather than

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Speaker 1: like jumping to like, oh that's right or that's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Right? So what are your thoughts celebrities? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of celebrities have a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to do. Why passing I think, you know, they've

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Speaker 1: gotten away with a lot of things. Um, they've taken

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Speaker 1: up space, you know, like thinking about like lin Man.

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Speaker 1: Miranda was, you know, the the director and producer of

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Speaker 1: like in the Heights and in Hamilton's. I've been hearing

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Speaker 1: a lot of about that. Thank you. Explain a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about that because I hadn't work the show.

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Speaker 1: It's on Netflix, right, No, I think it's on Disney.

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Speaker 1: It's like a musical that he did. Now what was

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Speaker 1: the issue? So he did His recent musical was In

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Speaker 1: the Heights and it's in Washington. Heights is a predominantly

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Speaker 1: Dominican community and Dominicans. He's Puerto Rican but he grew

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Speaker 1: up in Washington Heights. Okay, but he did this musical,

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Speaker 1: and in the musical, most of the main characters were

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Speaker 1: why passing light skinned Latinos, So he didn't actually represent

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Speaker 1: the community. And I did the work in the high

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Speaker 1: right right, right, Yeah, So people are mad about that.

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Speaker 1: And then there was other actress, Um who was she's

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Speaker 1: also like a white passing over the re Puerto rican

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Speaker 1: as bringing her name. But when you know, when she

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Speaker 1: was asked about this, she was like, oh, why don't

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Speaker 1: they just they just like get a chance, give us

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Speaker 1: a chance. Like people just complained too much, like you know,

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Speaker 1: we have to make our way in the door. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, no, that's not that's not the point, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the point is that like we need to bring

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Speaker 1: like it's not just like, oh great, we're white passing.

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Speaker 1: We made it. It's like, no, let's bring all our

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Speaker 1: people in. It's not okay that line. Miranda had white

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Speaker 1: and white passing people as main characters, Like you should

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Speaker 1: have represented the community and had black melonated after Latinos

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Speaker 1: in the movie. Right now, not my Devil's having and

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Speaker 1: I'm a white pass of person. It's not my fault

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Speaker 1: or how I look. Mm hmm, right, yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's yeah, it's our responsibility. Like mhm, it

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Speaker 1: isn't our fault, but this is what we got, so

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Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta be responsible with the privileges we got. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like the same thing with white people, like you know,

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Speaker 1: they gotta be responsible. What do you ever feel pressure

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Speaker 1: to identify present yourself in a certain way? Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's it's just it's always

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Speaker 1: just confusing, right because it's like I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: it is that people expect from me, right, um So,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of the pain, as I

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Speaker 1: said earlier, with like white passing people, it's just like

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Speaker 1: what what do I do? Social anxiety like when how

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Speaker 1: do I take up space here? Do I not? Do

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Speaker 1: I say something? Do I not? Right? Like m So

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Speaker 1: that's what I feel the most. I feel confused most

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Speaker 1: of the time, just like I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: because I'm confused, right, It's amusing, Yeah, because I just

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was like I can't identify people feel

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Speaker 1: within this community. But just doing more research on and

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Speaker 1: speaking to you it's gotta be very inopted. M m hmm. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thank you for acknowledging that it is. That's exhausting.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you're not you're not but you're not black,

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Speaker 1: but you're not Spanish enough. But then are they? Are

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Speaker 1: you to standards where you're not white enough? It's just

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Speaker 1: like what do you all want? M m yeah, I'm hard.

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Speaker 1: Were you ever encouraged not to identify in the person

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Speaker 1: of color? Yes, yes, um, mostly through social media. Um.

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Speaker 1: A few months back and last year, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff going around like post directly thing stop

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Speaker 1: saying your white passing and start saying your white or

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Speaker 1: you know, talking about white latinas ah, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: at that time, I was like, all right, like again,

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Speaker 1: like I hear the pain behind it, right, it's coming

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Speaker 1: from people who have experienced a lot of racial trauma

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Speaker 1: and then they're seeing white passing people and they're like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, here's another white person, and so I hear

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Speaker 1: the pain behind that. But it's not true, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's not true to who I am. And

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Speaker 1: like you said, it's so exhausting to have other parts

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Speaker 1: of me in a race mm hmm. And I think

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Speaker 1: we really intrigued me about this because our ancestors would

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Speaker 1: attempt to pass as white to escape from enslatement. Mm hmmm, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's another piece of it that's so painful, right, Like

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Speaker 1: there was a point where we were classified, right, like

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Speaker 1: if you were white passing enough, then you didn't get

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Speaker 1: enslaved or or murdered or tortured, right mm hmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when was the first time you heard the turn

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Speaker 1: white pass mm hmm, first time? I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what was the first time I heard

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Speaker 1: the turn white passing either. Yeah, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: because I just started to be a bit more thought

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Speaker 1: once I read that book, which was really good. Time

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Speaker 1: you realize it was white passing. So remember in high school,

365
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Speaker 1: and I went to a really diverse high school. I,

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Speaker 1: you know, like most people do, you try to hang

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Speaker 1: out with people. So I was trying to hang out

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Speaker 1: with the Dominican kids, and one one girl specifically, it

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Speaker 1: was like, you're not Dominican white. And I remember being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: like I remember, like so so painful, like what And

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Speaker 1: it was like a whole you know, identity crisis, which

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Speaker 1: is long, long term identity crisis. But that was the

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Speaker 1: first time where I was like, oh, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I don't okay, I guess I don't look like all

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Speaker 1: of these other Dominican kids in my peer group. So

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Speaker 1: that was the first time that I started thinking about

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Speaker 1: being my past. There's your family and my organce that's

378
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 1: identified the personal. Did I know you have Dominicans. I'm

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Speaker 1: very proud we are from Yes, we're very proud, but

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Speaker 1: we're also very colorist. A lot of colorism and Dominican community.

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Speaker 1: So you know, like my dad he says he's a

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Speaker 1: white Dominican. Uh, he says, I'm a white Dominican um

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Speaker 1: And yeah, like I have aunts and stuff that are like, no,

384
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: you're not right. So here it's so like it's so complex.

385
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: There's different depending on the person and stuff. But because

386
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: of colorism, there is a piece of like people encouraging it. Right,

387
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, you're white. Oh yeah, you're you're

388
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're so pretty because you right, you have

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Speaker 1: good hair. So that is very new. And what about

390
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: there's darking. Yeah, I mean that's also been a source

391
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Speaker 1: of pain, you know, like growing up with my cousins

392
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Speaker 1: that like we're told they had the bad hair, Like

393
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Speaker 1: I was told more often that I was pretty or

394
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Speaker 1: that I was smart. Um, so that's all of pain.

395
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Speaker 1: So that it and then because of that, I was

396
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: like bullied and you know, because that was different, But

397
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: it was because the adults like encouraging me and celebrating

398
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: the fact that I was white passing. Mhm, well there,

399
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: how you knew that it wasn't right or you know

400
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: how long that that wasn't right? Or I guess I

401
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: knew that older and you can't we're educated on it.

402
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: I did you ever change around like colorism, around why times,

403
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: around white passing? I mean I knew that. I knew that,

404
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, as I think, as as I got older

405
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: and I started becoming more aware and more into like

406
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: working more on like you know, social justice and things

407
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: like that, I knew that, you know, the things I

408
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: was told when I was younger, we're not okay, right,

409
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: I knew that, And I started waking up to that true,

410
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, ship, like all of that

411
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: was sucked up, all of it right the time that

412
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: I was so that was prettier and smarter and the

413
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: fact that I was really and all of that, Oh

414
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: that was my stuff. I'm Christian, I'm about okay. Um, hey,

415
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: you don't know so better right right exactly? And then

416
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't until you know, I guess I want to

417
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: Colorado and I got that feedback, but I was like,

418
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: oh wait, like I might actually be having an impact

419
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: in POC spaces. So I just really started like looking

420
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: at that and being like I need to be more

421
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: aware of where where I am and if it's okay

422
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: for me to be in the spaces because I don't

423
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: want to cause harm. Mm hmm. Can you think more?

424
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: Because your page and I thought this was very interesting, Um,

425
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: can you speak more on generational trauma and how do

426
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: people that are white passing can move towards into generational healing?

427
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, yes, the intergenerational traumas when you know

428
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: there's been trauma from our ancestors, right, and it continues

429
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: to be passed down through many many different ways. Um.

430
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: But one of those ways is to like physical violence, right,

431
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: Like the big part of Domerican culture is like getting

432
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: your kids right. And it's like we think of when

433
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: that first started. We can think about colonization and all

434
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: of that. It's like, yeah, how these like harm traumatic

435
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: behaviors passed down and then the somatic piece and the

436
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: body of like how the body holds trauma. So intergenerational

437
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: trauma very much lives in the body and causes very

438
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. Um and what was it? What

439
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: was the second intergenerational healing? Yes, that's that's the my

440
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: favorite part, right, Like how do we actually heal this?

441
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: And so for me, I really think it's a lot

442
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: about integration and like you know, like I said, like

443
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: getting clear about who I am, who we are, um,

444
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: so then that we can show up confidently in other spaces.

445
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: It feels really important. And then like reclaiming parts of ourselves, right,

446
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: like allowing myself to listen to Dominican old school music

447
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: and be like yeah that's me, right, and allowing myself

448
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: to get in touch with my it's roots. It's so

449
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: much part of the healing process and it really helps.

450
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: Do you think algorithms and we can have these conversations

451
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: and predominantly poc mm hmm, yeah, I think, h I

452
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: look at why do you do so? Yeah? I mean

453
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: I think that lights with premacy plays a role in

454
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: that because of white supremacy, people of color don't feel

455
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: safe around white people, right like mm hm. And so

456
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: if a white passing person walks into the room, and

457
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: then again we talked about trauma here into generational trauma,

458
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: a person of color can't help but feel unsafe they

459
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: have a white passing person is in the room. M hm.

460
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: So that's a big piece. And then yeah, the color ism, right,

461
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: like if you grew up you know, just thinking about

462
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: my cousins who grew up around me, and they constantly

463
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: heard my my parents and aunts and uncle's telling me

464
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I was prettier and smarter, right, and I you imagine

465
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: that there's presentment that grows there all right, So yeah, definitely,

466
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: so I know that you are a m hmmm. So

467
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: how do you go about honoring you know, why guilty

468
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: or do you even know? Mhm? The good question? I mean, yeah,

469
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: guilty is a big part of it. And that's that

470
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: just needs that's just there right, like that's not going

471
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: to go away, and I think it's important to acknowledge it. Um.

472
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: And I talked to them, you know, like especially like

473
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, I think about our slave owners, you know more,

474
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: I just I spandom healing and just like how could

475
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: you have done the ship you did? You know? And

476
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: I also noticed in myself when I have thoughts, you know,

477
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: when I have like biased thoughts, come up and race

478
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: the thoughts right like being real like that because of

479
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: you know how I was conditioned that that comes up

480
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: to me. And so when I noticed that, you know,

481
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: I checked myself. I'm like, okay, I know where this

482
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: comes from. This cont my answers. H, what do you

483
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: mean by like you have? Let me think of an example. Um,

484
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: you think of something right now? Okay. So one one

485
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: thing that I've noticed for myself, baby, um is that

486
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: when I'm around someone of like Asian descent who looks

487
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: like they're Asians, I am I am less likely to

488
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: like like ask for their name or like you know,

489
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: like talk to them personally. And that was very much

490
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: like Dominican culture is very much a little bit of

491
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: anti Asians do culture. Yeah, So I noticed that within

492
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: myself was like, oh, look at that, Like I have

493
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: internalized that somehow, right, whether or not I wanted to.

494
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: I didn't want to, obviously, but like I've internalized that.

495
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: And so now I noticed, like, oh, I didn't catch

496
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: that person's name. I completely dismissed them right Like, I'm like,

497
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: there's that invisibility part where like I didn't even see

498
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: them mm hm. And so just like noticing that like

499
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: things like that, I'm like, Okay, that could have been

500
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: something my white ancestors, you know, have put into me

501
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: and my check it. Yeah, And I know this is like, um,

502
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: one of your conversations that you mentioned how your parents

503
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: generation was encouraged to create more white people and now

504
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: you're a doingeration and wants to create more people of color.

505
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: About that, m m yeah, I want to trip like

506
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: like my parents generation, yeah, it was all about like

507
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: they would call it bettering the race, and you know,

508
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: people tried to marry as as white as possible so

509
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: that they could have white kids, and that was like

510
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: an accomplishment. If you had a white kid that or

511
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: your light skinned kids, it was seen as an accomplishment.

512
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: My mom is like brownish brownish, yeah, like brown like me, No,

513
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: like like brown, like Dominican brown, yeah, like like brown

514
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: American brown. Yeah yeah yeah, but even even Dominican brown, right,

515
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of afric Latinos right, like black

516
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: with them, right. Yeah. She's like she's like a dark tan,

517
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: a dark woman. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Um so yeah,

518
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: so with my generation and like my friends, it's like,

519
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, we we talked about it and like sometimes

520
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: we're like we feel shame when we're attracted to the

521
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: white person or like you know, when I think about

522
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: having babies, like I really feel on a version of

523
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: having babies with someone that's white because I don't want

524
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: my kids because if I have a baby with someone

525
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: that's white, it's gonna be a white baby, like know,

526
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: being bigger I live, and so I think. But some

527
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: but the piece about that is that we don't want

528
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: to lose those parts of ourselves. Like I don't want

529
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 1: to lose the African and Indigenous parts of my lineage,

530
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: and so I feel like our generations is going the

531
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: other way. It's just like wait a minute, like we're

532
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 1: trying to grasp onto those pieces of ourselves, those parts

533
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: of ourselves. Mm hmm. I just have this curious as

534
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: why does um your generation feel al must shame and

535
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: personally your attentions are good because you can't help who

536
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: you're trying to do. Mm hmmm, mm hmm. That's real,

537
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's all part of the intergenerational trauma. Part,

538
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: Like you know, there could be a piece of it

539
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: of like feeling shame and guilt because of our white ancestors.

540
00:36:53,840 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: M hm. And we've heard it that m m. Do

541
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: you think your dad would be he would pull away

542
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: or you think your parents would pull away if you

543
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: had a baby and then came out dark unfortunately, Yeah,

544
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: built that way. I think they do, unfortunately. Mm hmmm.

545
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. This reminds me of, um, Chris Harry and

546
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Megan mm hmm, when they were talking about how that

547
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: was afraid of the babies will come out from birthday.

548
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, exactly, mm hmm. So when it comes

549
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: to ways passed, you talk about the safety aspect because

550
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting as well. Mm hmm. Yeah.

551
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, why passing person like I

552
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: don't fear getting shot by the police might um, I

553
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: you know, Like again it depends on the at the

554
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: level of passing you are. But like for examples, I'm like,

555
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, driving through the United States and I get

556
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: off in a gas station in the middle of you know,

557
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: somewhere where I don't know how racists they are, right,

558
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, in those moments, as uncomfortable as it is,

559
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm like internally hoping that I'm passing enough, right, I'm like, oh,

560
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: hopefully I'm passing enough that they don't think of a

561
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: personal color. I'm gonna experience some ship here, you know,

562
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: mm hmm. But that's that there's some safety in being

563
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: white passing, right, especially with the violence and in white America.

564
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna, yeah, I'm not gonna get racist

565
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: racially targeted in that way, right, I'm not curious. Have

566
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: you ever said so I tried it on for a

567
00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: little bit. It didn't fit. It was so uncomfortable, so uncomfortable,

568
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 1: and it it was it wasn't real, right, like that's

569
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: it's just it's not like do you know how I

570
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: grew up, how I see the world, Like I'm not, like,

571
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: but I did try it on because I wanted to

572
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: listen to what people were saying. Um, but yeah, and

573
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: there was just so much pain around, like you know,

574
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: the my indigenous ancestors, my African ancestors, Like I just

575
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: kept feeling in my body like no, don't erase us,

576
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: don't erase us when you like when you did, like yeah,

577
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean I was I was saying I was white,

578
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, like I was like on on dating apps,

579
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, uh huh, I put white on the dating app. Um. Yeah,

580
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: that was most of the extent of it. Like I

581
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: was just saying it, like, you know, to myself, and

582
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 1: then on the dating app, IM just saying I'm white.

583
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: I mean, did you even did you need somebody off

584
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: the app? No? I never did. I never met yeah,

585
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna did they notice that you were white

586
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: or did they know that you? I mean, you know,

587
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of like what you said, right, it depends

588
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: like some people look at me and they're like, oh no,

589
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: like I know off the bat that you were white,

590
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: and some people look at me and they're like, yeah,

591
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: I thought you were white. That really depends. Like I've

592
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: dated people that, yeah, people that I have connected on

593
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: dating apps, and they have both ways have said I

594
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: thought you were white or not. Right. Another thing I

595
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: received from the conversations you have on your page was

596
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: you talked about cultural appropriation. Mm hmmm. Can you slay

597
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: more about that? Well, because you're Vanish and you don't, right, right,

598
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: So that one's again depends on context place. Um. So

599
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: for example, like you know, my my black for Latino Dominicans,

600
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: if they want to say the N word like you know,

601
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: like if that's on them, look for me to say that, right,

602
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: like that that's not okay, especially like we're talking about

603
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: ancestry and like, yeah, that's not okay. Ah. And then

604
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: in terms of cultural appropriation, it's it's tricky. It's so

605
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: tricky because I don't want to I don't want to

606
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: offend anybody, right, So there was a there was a

607
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: time where I was like exploring head wraps and I

608
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I actually stopped because I was like,

609
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that white girl wearing head wraps,

610
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to be that person that's a

611
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: you feel like you can't even head wraps. Yeah, I

612
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: know with me deed and people get out of heat,

613
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: you know, right, what is something else? That? What the topic?

614
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: Those are two many things that I definite commentation. Mm

615
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: hmm yeah, I mean, um so head wraps um. You know,

616
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: I think with language around, like I don't want to

617
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: be appropriating like even just like yeah it's queen, right,

618
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't say that like things like that,

619
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to appropriate you know, African American vernacular. Um.

620
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: Language is a big part dress, right, I question often

621
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: like can I buy that? You know that looks because

622
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: African American? You why is why the African American because

623
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, a v e vernacular, But yeah,

624
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: you know deep, it is deep, I know. Yeah, And

625
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: like being honest and being wrong to go by this

626
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: topic because I know we make the light of it,

627
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: but I can only imagine the pain that come with

628
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: everything that you and people identified white pass go through

629
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. Yeah, no, thank you. I appreciate

630
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: you making space for us. You know. Again, it's tricky

631
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: because yeah, there's a lot of pain and there's a

632
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: lot of privilege to right and both exist. So what

633
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: is the advice that you would like to share two

634
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: people of color there are white pas. Yes, definitely do

635
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: the work. Uh, notice your biases, the ways that you've

636
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: internalized white supremacy with your thoughts, your behaviors. Notice where

637
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: you're taking on space and if you're taking space away

638
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: from emanated person um, maybe you're not the ones to

639
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: be representing POC in that space. And also be kind

640
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: to yourself and you know, look for spaces where you

641
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: can have these conversations, but for people that can validate

642
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: you because they can be a very lonely experience and yeah,

643
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: like acknowledging again both like, even though there is a

644
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: lot of privilege and there's work that we have to do,

645
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: there's also a lot of pain and that's valid and

646
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: so being kind for ourselves too, and that's not at

647
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: least How can people power for bring safe spaces coversations

648
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 1: like this mm hmmm mm hmm, because there's many ways

649
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: to be a b mm hmm mm hmmm. I think

650
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: that it's important to have h to make this be

651
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation, right. I think that often

652
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: when we're talking about UM racism, color is um systemic oppression.

653
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: It's black and white, and it's like just put making

654
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: in the language like black, white, indigenous and mixed race people, right,

655
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: like making a space for mixed race people um that

656
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: don't fit into either category. I think that would really

657
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: help by passing people mixed race people feel more safe

658
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, there's a there's a category. M Um. Yeah,

659
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean I think honestly, like even you're saying like yeah,

660
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: I knew you were plc red like that, that really

661
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: helps me relaxed. And someone's like, yeah, like who are

662
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: you saying aligns with how I see you and how

663
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: I perceive you, right, Like that's really helpful for me.

664
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, like there's an alignment here. I

665
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: could tell even when I was on your page and

666
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: I was looking at the conversation what you're and I

667
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: didn't even tell how nervous you were, and I was

668
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: just like and just doing more research and educating myself

669
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: on the topic and even reading that book, it's just like, wow,

670
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: it just really is deep. Mm hmm. So deep. Do

671
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: you think we would ever get past today? Oh? I

672
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: feel hopeful that we will. I think there's a lot

673
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: of work to do, but I feel like we're getting

674
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: to a to a point in society where like now

675
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: we're we're really having the hard, nuanced conversations, So I

676
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: feel hopeful that way will. On that note, I want

677
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: to say thank you so much. I don't feel good.

678
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: It's gonna be nice and eavy. You need to feel uncomfortable. Yeah,

679
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: thank you. If you have any how much good questions,

680
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: please make sure to email me at hello at the

681
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: PhD podcast dot com. And until next time, everyone Later

682
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: five