1 00:00:13,289 --> 00:00:13,970 Speaker 1: Hi, you guys. 2 00:00:14,010 --> 00:00:17,550 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Killer Thriller docu-edition. I am Jen Fessler. 3 00:00:18,130 --> 00:00:21,470 Speaker 2: So what happens when a teenager from Southern California finds 4 00:00:21,510 --> 00:00:25,180 Speaker 2: herself at the center of a major cocaine operation? For 5 00:00:25,220 --> 00:00:28,380 Speaker 2: Denise Trigo Fleming, it eventually meant seven years in a 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: federal prison. Now in her memoir, Dealing, she looks back 7 00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:35,100 Speaker 2: at the choices, relationships, and losses that led her there. Denise, 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:36,700 Speaker 2: welcome to Killer Thriller. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,940 Speaker 3: Thank you. Hi. 10 00:00:39,659 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: Hi. 11 00:00:39,770 --> 00:00:43,250 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Wow. 12 00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:44,150 Speaker 1: What a book. 13 00:00:44,729 --> 00:00:45,890 Speaker 3: Yeah, right? The Journey. 14 00:00:46,510 --> 00:00:52,750 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. I mean, talk about crazy stories, ups, downs. 15 00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: There's so much in it that is frightening, terrifying, so, 16 00:00:59,670 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: so very sad, so tragic. And then in the end, 17 00:01:03,780 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: I found it sort of uplifting and really about resiliency. 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: First, tell me, if you. 19 00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:16,429 Speaker 2: Would, what Was it that sort of how did you 20 00:01:16,470 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: come to the point where you thought I'm going to 21 00:01:18,580 --> 00:01:20,020 Speaker 2: write about it? I want to put it all on 22 00:01:20,060 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: paper and share it. 23 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,460 Speaker 3: I think inside prison, you know, you obviously have a 24 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,100 Speaker 3: lot of time to reflect. So I was like, did 25 00:01:28,140 --> 00:01:31,470 Speaker 3: that really happen? Like that story is so important. crazy, 26 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:35,090 Speaker 3: you know, and so I was kind of journaling. When 27 00:01:35,130 --> 00:01:38,310 Speaker 3: I got out, obviously, it's, you know, hit the ground running, 28 00:01:39,090 --> 00:01:42,050 Speaker 3: which I thought was, you know, the finish line wasn't 29 00:01:42,150 --> 00:01:45,430 Speaker 3: I learned that it was obviously the beginning to like 30 00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:48,490 Speaker 3: creating a whole new life. So I was obviously busy, 31 00:01:48,570 --> 00:01:52,810 Speaker 3: but I kept writing like little bits of stories that happened. 32 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:55,500 Speaker 3: And then at some point, I was like, maybe I 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,890 Speaker 3: should put it in chronological order. And maybe I should, 34 00:01:58,970 --> 00:02:02,630 Speaker 3: you know, develop characters. And then what's the narrative arc? 35 00:02:02,710 --> 00:02:07,490 Speaker 3: So it really was a big process and also a 36 00:02:07,530 --> 00:02:10,870 Speaker 3: labor of love. I was writing from a place of, 37 00:02:11,510 --> 00:02:14,950 Speaker 3: you know, grief. I was writing from anger. I was 38 00:02:14,990 --> 00:02:18,690 Speaker 3: writing from all these different emotions that I was going through. 39 00:02:18,730 --> 00:02:21,390 Speaker 3: And I think that's probably why it took me forever 40 00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:24,130 Speaker 3: to finally come out because I really wanted to put 41 00:02:24,190 --> 00:02:28,850 Speaker 3: something out. that had all those elements that you mentioned before, so. 42 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:29,630 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 43 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:35,490 Speaker 2: It also had some really cool elements like 80s music, which, 44 00:02:36,070 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: I mean, I was born in 68. So, and there's 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,900 Speaker 2: so much humor in it, I have to say. And 46 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:46,260 Speaker 2: there's such a great, you know, along with sort of 47 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: the horror of the story, you were able to make 48 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,690 Speaker 2: it at times so much fun to read. 49 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,870 Speaker 1: A lot of it was even listen. 50 00:02:56,150 --> 00:02:57,549 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 51 00:02:57,590 --> 00:02:58,489 Speaker 1: No, no. Yeah. 52 00:02:58,570 --> 00:03:01,390 Speaker 2: I found it, uh, really cool to hear about all that, 53 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:05,970 Speaker 2: you know, cool Southern California girl, and then juxtaposed against 54 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:08,889 Speaker 2: going home to Staten Island, right? 55 00:03:08,910 --> 00:03:09,130 Speaker 1: Where? 56 00:03:09,150 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: No. Oh yeah. My, my dad's from Staten Island. My 57 00:03:11,590 --> 00:03:13,100 Speaker 3: mom's from Brooklyn. Brooklyn. 58 00:03:13,139 --> 00:03:13,279 Speaker 2: Right. 59 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:13,700 Speaker 3: Yeah. 60 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: And then just sort of going home to those meals 61 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: and then the way you, you described your home and 62 00:03:19,419 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: your brothers and, Stacey, there were a lot of warm 63 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:28,030 Speaker 2: fuzzies in there, which actually, right? It felt kind of, 64 00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:32,050 Speaker 2: I don't know if fairytale is the right word for it, 65 00:03:32,690 --> 00:03:36,550 Speaker 2: but almost even more difficult to picture where your life 66 00:03:37,730 --> 00:03:41,170 Speaker 2: turned out after that. Now it's turned around again, thank God. 67 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:44,310 Speaker 2: But that was part of what was so fascinating. And 68 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: I feel like throughout the book, you really touch base 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,060 Speaker 2: with your family, how much you loved your mom and dad, 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: you know, and I did love that part of it 71 00:03:55,730 --> 00:03:58,330 Speaker 2: a lot. I thought that was so important. How does 72 00:03:58,350 --> 00:04:00,330 Speaker 2: your mom feel now that the book is out? 73 00:04:01,220 --> 00:04:05,230 Speaker 3: She's so, she's very proud of me. And she cried 74 00:04:05,290 --> 00:04:07,470 Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm like, I'm sorry, mom, you know? 75 00:04:07,510 --> 00:04:10,570 Speaker 3: And she was like, no, like I'm crying because I 76 00:04:10,870 --> 00:04:13,130 Speaker 3: found it so fascinating. She says, I'm crying. I cried 77 00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:16,670 Speaker 3: because I didn't realize how good your dad was to 78 00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: you towards the end. Maybe I wouldn't have been so 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: mean to him. 80 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. 81 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: So yeah, there's certain things that you describe, like when 82 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:30,849 Speaker 2: I guess you were taken away after you were sentenced and, and, 83 00:04:31,450 --> 00:04:32,950 Speaker 2: I forgot what your dad said to you, but it 84 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:36,810 Speaker 2: was something really, really touching. And he called you that number. 85 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:37,550 Speaker 2: What was it, Charles? 86 00:04:37,570 --> 00:04:38,029 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 87 00:04:38,430 --> 00:04:42,690 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it's fine. 41. 41. 41. Yeah. Yeah. 88 00:04:43,110 --> 00:04:45,190 Speaker 2: All that stuff that I'm sure, I don't know, I 89 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:47,010 Speaker 2: kind of felt for him, too. You know, he just 90 00:04:47,029 --> 00:04:51,100 Speaker 2: seemed such a special, loving man. And not a perfect father, 91 00:04:51,130 --> 00:04:52,570 Speaker 2: but I don't know a perfect father. 92 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: And I think that's why I wrote the book. I mean, 93 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: I was very heavy, like you said, on nostalgia. 94 00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:57,140 Speaker 1: Yeah. 95 00:04:57,589 --> 00:05:00,270 Speaker 3: Of going back in time with music and fashion and 96 00:05:00,390 --> 00:05:03,430 Speaker 3: the color of it and just how we were raised. 97 00:05:03,490 --> 00:05:06,530 Speaker 3: I mean, I was, I'm born 67. So, you know, 98 00:05:06,570 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 3: we were that latchkey kid, you know, we had all 99 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 3: those great moments as kids on our bicycles and all that. 100 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: And then, you know, the eighties rolled around and some 101 00:05:15,779 --> 00:05:18,380 Speaker 3: parents kind of checked in and some were kind of 102 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: checked out a little bit living their lives. Cause that's 103 00:05:20,660 --> 00:05:25,140 Speaker 3: what their norm was. So, I think the story is 104 00:05:25,180 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: just really about me taking responsibility for my own actions. 105 00:05:28,980 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: You can't blame your dad. You can't blame your mom 106 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: or your brothers. It was just my surroundings in Orange County. 107 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:35,420 Speaker 1: Yeah. 108 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: I was going to talk about how you sort of 109 00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:41,099 Speaker 2: got a glimpse of the drug world through your brother, Jeff. 110 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: And, you know, when you first. 111 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:48,550 Speaker 2: Sort of saw and understood what he was doing and 112 00:05:48,570 --> 00:05:52,110 Speaker 2: you're 16, do you feel like you admired it more, 113 00:05:52,170 --> 00:05:52,890 Speaker 2: feared it more? 114 00:05:54,730 --> 00:05:56,029 Speaker 1: Did it piss you off more? 115 00:05:56,050 --> 00:05:59,190 Speaker 3: I think it was more of somebody I looked up to. 116 00:05:59,230 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 3: He was my best friend. Like, was it a little scary? 117 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:07,140 Speaker 3: And then like, yes, but then I saw, you know, 118 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,380 Speaker 3: all the toys that came with it. So you're almost like, wow, 119 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: he's really good at this. And he's got this big, 120 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,869 Speaker 3: you know, cherry red Porsche and it's, you know, everyone's 121 00:06:15,910 --> 00:06:18,050 Speaker 3: looking at us and we look cool and we're getting 122 00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:20,620 Speaker 3: attention and you're young, you know, you're not really, really 123 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:21,740 Speaker 3: thinking straight. So. 124 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,820 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the diamond necklace of it all. 125 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 3: Yeah. 126 00:06:26,380 --> 00:06:28,780 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, you're 16 years old. You, you, you, 127 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,220 Speaker 2: your brother, you know, gives you a diamond necklace. Well, 128 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: isn't he the best thing since sliced bread, the coolest 129 00:06:35,060 --> 00:06:35,300 Speaker 2: of all. 130 00:06:36,460 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you even, you know, say that? 131 00:06:39,790 --> 00:06:41,610 Speaker 1: I think I remember he was sort of buying your 132 00:06:41,650 --> 00:06:42,810 Speaker 1: silence with it. Right. 133 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:45,370 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think he was just giving it 134 00:06:45,430 --> 00:06:47,930 Speaker 3: to me, but for me, it was like, that's how 135 00:06:47,950 --> 00:06:51,150 Speaker 3: I envision it of just kind of like, well, there 136 00:06:51,210 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: are perks, you know? Yeah. 137 00:06:52,810 --> 00:06:53,070 Speaker 1: Yeah. 138 00:06:53,330 --> 00:06:53,539 Speaker 3: Yeah. 139 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,100 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm picturing also a teenager dealing with these 140 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,540 Speaker 1: enormous sums of money. Right. I'm trying to remember when 141 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: you were living with rich in the neighborhood, how old 142 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,260 Speaker 1: were you then? 143 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 3: Oh, uh, like 18, 19. Yeah. 144 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,970 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, reading about that and, and I, I'm, 145 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: I was never presented with an opportunity. I hope I 146 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:18,860 Speaker 2: wouldn't have taken it, but to live that kind of 147 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,140 Speaker 2: life as a teenager, but how, how dangerous, I don't know. 148 00:07:24,690 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: You say that, yes, you're. 149 00:07:25,580 --> 00:07:28,410 Speaker 2: Responsible and ultimately you made your own decisions, but you 150 00:07:28,430 --> 00:07:33,310 Speaker 2: were a kid and you were living a life that 151 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:37,010 Speaker 2: I'm sure kids all around you were in awe of, right. 152 00:07:37,170 --> 00:07:41,610 Speaker 2: And family and having the most, and it was all so, 153 00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:44,830 Speaker 2: so glamorous. Do you look back at all on any 154 00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:46,190 Speaker 2: of that time with fondness? 155 00:07:47,670 --> 00:07:49,770 Speaker 3: I mean, now that I look back on it, and 156 00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:51,370 Speaker 3: I think it's one of the reasons why I wrote 157 00:07:51,410 --> 00:07:56,070 Speaker 3: the book also is how quickly it changes for me 158 00:07:56,130 --> 00:07:58,290 Speaker 3: when I was, you know, driving around with Rich and 159 00:07:58,330 --> 00:08:02,150 Speaker 3: I was meeting, you know, Colombian drug lords and Peruvian 160 00:08:02,190 --> 00:08:05,130 Speaker 3: and all these people, they were just people to me, 161 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 3: you know, they spoke a different language, they had a 162 00:08:07,540 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 3: little bit of a different lifestyle, but they were friendly. 163 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:13,690 Speaker 3: They were you know, it just, it didn't seem like 164 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:17,530 Speaker 3: a really scary situation, you know, looking back, it's like, Oh, 165 00:08:17,590 --> 00:08:21,390 Speaker 3: holy shit. You know? But I mean, even now, like 166 00:08:21,450 --> 00:08:23,450 Speaker 3: even when it went in my book, when it went 167 00:08:23,530 --> 00:08:26,610 Speaker 3: crazy at the end, these people were, you know, there 168 00:08:26,630 --> 00:08:29,350 Speaker 3: were surfer guys or by the beach and like, they 169 00:08:29,390 --> 00:08:33,170 Speaker 3: were all friendly. Like they didn't look scary on paper. 170 00:08:33,620 --> 00:08:36,359 Speaker 3: It just, it escalates. And then all of a sudden 171 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: it's like blows up in your face. So. 172 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 173 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: Um, I remember you had the meal with the big 174 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: wigs and their wives. And I'm picturing sort of like, well, 175 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: drug lords and their wives. And you described them almost 176 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: with admiration at the time, right? Looking at them and 177 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,819 Speaker 2: feeling like they were smart. 178 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: They were savvy. They knew what their place was in 179 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,700 Speaker 1: the operation and how you felt such admiration for that 180 00:09:05,780 --> 00:09:08,500 Speaker 1: and how you aspired to be not just. 181 00:09:10,059 --> 00:09:12,580 Speaker 2: I guess a girl, I think you even said that 182 00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:16,630 Speaker 2: at one point, but you were a boss, right? You 183 00:09:16,650 --> 00:09:18,790 Speaker 2: wanted to be a boss bitch, which you, I guess it's, 184 00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:20,230 Speaker 2: I guess, I guess. 185 00:09:20,050 --> 00:09:22,450 Speaker 3: You were, I guess whatever you put your mind to, 186 00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:22,770 Speaker 3: you can. 187 00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:25,689 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess, well, look at you now. So 188 00:09:25,710 --> 00:09:26,390 Speaker 1: that's true. 189 00:09:26,770 --> 00:09:29,700 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it came from just my roots 190 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: of Staten Island and, and, and Brooklyn and just kind 191 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: of like growing up with that whole mindset of, of 192 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,870 Speaker 3: watching the drug movies and just, I don't know. And 193 00:09:39,910 --> 00:09:43,930 Speaker 3: I grew up with that sense of loyalty means everything, 194 00:09:43,950 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: you know, and it's true. So I looked at these 195 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 3: women like they really do have their man's back, you know, 196 00:09:50,660 --> 00:09:53,010 Speaker 3: and I admire that. So that's kind of. 197 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,410 Speaker 2: Listen, you went to visit Rich every single weekend, even 198 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:58,130 Speaker 2: when it sounds like you weren't sure you were still 199 00:09:58,150 --> 00:09:59,190 Speaker 2: in love with him and still. 200 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. Like joining in the escapades. Just, it seemed like 201 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: to me out of, out of loyalty in the end. 202 00:10:06,179 --> 00:10:07,780 Speaker 1: I don't know. You can say that. 203 00:10:08,580 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: Obviously the choices you made were not just choices you 204 00:10:10,820 --> 00:10:13,110 Speaker 2: made out of loyalty, but it feels like maybe a 205 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,609 Speaker 2: lot of them were, you know, you had so many opportunities. So, 206 00:10:16,610 --> 00:10:19,290 Speaker 2: you know, I'm reading the book and I'm thinking, well, 207 00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: I knew that. what was going to happen, but I'm 208 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: reading the book. And if I didn't know how you 209 00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:26,780 Speaker 2: were going to end up, I was like, oh, good. 210 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: This is it. This is when, you know, she gets out. 211 00:10:30,260 --> 00:10:31,620 Speaker 1: This is when, right, exactly. 212 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,579 Speaker 3: Smart, she wakes up. Yeah, exactly. 213 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,020 Speaker 1: This is when all of that starts. And there was 214 00:10:37,059 --> 00:10:40,100 Speaker 1: a lot of those, you know, right? 215 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,020 Speaker 2: Like, what do you think was one of the main 216 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: factors in terms of it getting, always getting sucked back in? 217 00:10:48,010 --> 00:10:51,850 Speaker 3: Love, loyalty, all do it, not putting yourself first, not 218 00:10:51,890 --> 00:10:55,460 Speaker 3: loving yourself first, caring about other people more. I don't 219 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,540 Speaker 3: want you to get in trouble. I'll do it. I 220 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:58,099 Speaker 3: don't care. 221 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,340 Speaker 1: I can handle it. That's so interesting, right? 222 00:11:00,340 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 3: 100%, yeah. 223 00:11:01,660 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: Like what a sad, what a, I mean, I guess 224 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,890 Speaker 2: admirable on some level, but so sad that you would. 225 00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, that I look like, yeah, of course, 100%. Yes. Yeah. 226 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 3: But I think, you know, at the end I was 227 00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:16,610 Speaker 3: out in my mind, I was out. Like I, I 228 00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:20,230 Speaker 3: was just trying to, again, care for other people. Let 229 00:11:20,270 --> 00:11:22,250 Speaker 3: me tell him what's happening. I don't want him to 230 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:25,530 Speaker 3: get hurt. Let me, you know, get away from this 231 00:11:25,630 --> 00:11:27,580 Speaker 3: and then boom, you know? So. 232 00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Denise, the times though, of you, your head 233 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,980 Speaker 1: being slammed into the pavement and the cups of it 234 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: all and the guns of it all. And, And that 235 00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:42,059 Speaker 1: was like the beginning. I feel like it just kept going. 236 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 3: I don't know. 237 00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: Are you sometimes just amazed that you're still here with us? 238 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,300 Speaker 1: I mean, you know what? I was so morbid. I'm just, no, no, no. 239 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 3: I think it was a way of life for me. 240 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 3: So that was my normal. I know that sounds really weird, 241 00:11:57,820 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 3: but like, Oh, it doesn't. 242 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: I mean, the hat would have had to have. 243 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,020 Speaker 1: Been, I guess. 244 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,710 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess. Right. So, yeah. 245 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like loyalty just won out over fear. 246 00:12:10,580 --> 00:12:10,860 Speaker 3: Yeah. 247 00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you weren't as afraid. 248 00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:13,700 Speaker 3: I don't know. 249 00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:16,309 Speaker 2: We have to talk about one of the most pivotal 250 00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:20,190 Speaker 2: parts of your life and in the book is obviously 251 00:12:20,210 --> 00:12:26,090 Speaker 2: when Stacey dies. And I mean, your friendship was so magical. 252 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to think of a friend that 253 00:12:28,059 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: I had, and I was not that young when I made, 254 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:31,939 Speaker 2: you know, a friend for life. 255 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,540 Speaker 3: Yeah. 256 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: A friend who lived with me. 257 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: A friend who, when I met her, it just, like, 258 00:12:37,059 --> 00:12:41,510 Speaker 2: we connected like that so magically, right? And I am, well, 259 00:12:41,530 --> 00:12:43,570 Speaker 2: first of all, I'm so sorry, because it still must just. 260 00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:44,770 Speaker 3: Yeah. 261 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:46,929 Speaker 2: It seems like from the book, it was the kind 262 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:50,150 Speaker 2: of friendship, like, you'll never forget her. 263 00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:52,590 Speaker 1: But is there anything you didn't say in the book? 264 00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: Anything in terms of? 265 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,260 Speaker 2: You'd want to share with us about Stacy, about when 266 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,990 Speaker 2: you look back at it, about between the lifeguard stands, 267 00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:02,410 Speaker 2: you know, what was so magical there? 268 00:13:02,429 --> 00:13:02,510 Speaker 1: Yeah. 269 00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:07,470 Speaker 3: I think that, you know, I, I, now I'll be like, oh, 270 00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:09,429 Speaker 3: this is my, people will introduce me. Oh, this is 271 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 3: my best friend from college and this and that. And 272 00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:13,860 Speaker 3: I'm like, that sucks. Cool. Nice to meet you. 273 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 274 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 3: I guess like what you said is what I hold 275 00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: on to is that we did have a magical friendship 276 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,870 Speaker 3: and not everybody does, you know? So I had my time, 277 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:26,170 Speaker 3: it peaked earlier and, But it taught me of what 278 00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 3: a real friendship should be. 279 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: Do you have a friend like that now? 280 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:34,340 Speaker 3: I do. I have a lot of friends. I feel 281 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,540 Speaker 3: like I'm surrounded and I'm very loved by a lot 282 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,420 Speaker 3: of my friends. I don't feel like I have that 283 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,260 Speaker 3: one main person, but that's my kids. So I'm happy 284 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 3: about that. So it would be my daughter. 285 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:47,620 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it could be me. I'm available. I find 286 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,180 Speaker 1: you very, very fascinating and inspirational. 287 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:51,890 Speaker 3: Thank you. 288 00:14:06,460 --> 00:14:08,260 Speaker 2: So I know you have, you were about having a 289 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,250 Speaker 2: lot of guilt after not answering Stacy's call. 290 00:14:11,260 --> 00:14:12,170 Speaker 1: Do you still feel that? 291 00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:15,650 Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, I do. Yeah. 292 00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:17,770 Speaker 1: Well, I'm here to tell you it was not your fault. 293 00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:20,350 Speaker 1: That's awful. I'm sorry. You would still carry that. I mean, 294 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:21,670 Speaker 1: do you think it would have changed anything? 295 00:14:21,730 --> 00:14:22,610 Speaker 3: I don't, can I? 296 00:14:23,310 --> 00:14:24,630 Speaker 1: Okay. Moving on. 297 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 3: Okay. 298 00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:28,859 Speaker 2: So, you know, after she died, you did try to 299 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:35,060 Speaker 2: really build a life through fashion, nightlifes, uh, new relationships. And, uh, 300 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,380 Speaker 2: what was it that you think really pulled you back 301 00:14:39,490 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: into that life that you were trying? 302 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,950 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make, I mean. 303 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:46,330 Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's very, it's very poignant that you're, 304 00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:50,470 Speaker 2: you still are so emotional. 305 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:55,220 Speaker 3: Well, I cry about everything too. I'm like the worst. Yeah. Not, 306 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,780 Speaker 3: not so much of a badass. I'm like such a 307 00:14:57,820 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: cry baby, which is so weird. 308 00:15:00,860 --> 00:15:04,190 Speaker 2: It's funny just talking to you now. It's hard for 309 00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:06,250 Speaker 2: me to even now picture. I mean, even reading it, 310 00:15:06,270 --> 00:15:07,930 Speaker 2: it was hard to picture, you know, the way that 311 00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:10,790 Speaker 2: you were so good about describing your life, what happened 312 00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:14,990 Speaker 2: to you. But, you know, even watching you now, say what? 313 00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:20,410 Speaker 2: Seven years in prison. I mean, I mean, there's a 314 00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:22,910 Speaker 2: Heidi Fleiss of it all. I want to know about 315 00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:25,820 Speaker 2: that much time. But like you've just had so many 316 00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: things that even the movie stars you would party with. 317 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:29,340 Speaker 1: Yeah. 318 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,100 Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a great, crazy life for sure. 319 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm naming those. 320 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: And a lot of fun. And a lot of fun. 321 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,260 Speaker 3: I will say I had a lot of fun, you know? 322 00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:38,750 Speaker 1: Really? 323 00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:41,470 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. Absolutely. 324 00:15:41,490 --> 00:15:42,590 Speaker 1: And that's why I kept going. 325 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:44,530 Speaker 3: Like at the end of the day, like I was, 326 00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:47,830 Speaker 3: I was, it was fun. Growing up in Orange County, 327 00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:51,090 Speaker 3: Newport Beach, you know, on the harbor and all the 328 00:15:51,170 --> 00:15:54,930 Speaker 3: clubs and just like the whole, the whole lifestyle. Like 329 00:15:54,950 --> 00:15:57,350 Speaker 3: I've had a really good life except, you know, the 330 00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:58,590 Speaker 3: tail end part. 331 00:15:58,610 --> 00:16:03,350 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that you describe it like that. There 332 00:16:03,370 --> 00:16:06,710 Speaker 2: was a part of the book where you described freebasing 333 00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:11,700 Speaker 2: with God, what was her name? That beach house. 334 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,780 Speaker 1: Yes. Sorry. It's the 58 year old. 335 00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 336 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,260 Speaker 2: So I've never free based, but the way that you 337 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,870 Speaker 2: described it was good girl. 338 00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:22,690 Speaker 1: Yeah. 339 00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:23,070 Speaker 3: Yeah. 340 00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:30,370 Speaker 1: Yeah. Listen, I'm not have our skeletons. So, but it 341 00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:37,100 Speaker 1: made it, sounds so sexy, intriguing. And I'm going to 342 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,940 Speaker 1: ask you this, maybe it's not a great question, but 343 00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: do you ever miss just the drugs of it all? 344 00:16:42,420 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: No, not really. I think I've done enough in my life, 345 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,380 Speaker 3: so I'm good. And I don't trust drugs now. I 346 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:52,540 Speaker 3: always say, listen, when I was involved in the drugs, 347 00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: I didn't seek killings and I didn't like you know 348 00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: in the 80s I didn't see people ODing like it 349 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: was like yeah right fun and dancing and they're wearing 350 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,940 Speaker 3: sequins and you know music's playing on the dance floor 351 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:07,770 Speaker 3: and it was just glorified at that time so I 352 00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:11,409 Speaker 3: think and I hate to glorify drugs because nowadays in 353 00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:13,909 Speaker 3: which I'm writing in the book obviously through my journey 354 00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:18,230 Speaker 3: is the drugs changed it got uglier and Like, you know, 355 00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:21,790 Speaker 3: people are ODing people. And that's what I came to 356 00:17:21,869 --> 00:17:23,690 Speaker 3: face of when I was in that, you know, in 357 00:17:23,730 --> 00:17:26,810 Speaker 3: that prison in Hawaii. I saw like, oh, wow, these 358 00:17:26,869 --> 00:17:29,570 Speaker 3: are drug addicts because the drug addicts I knew they 359 00:17:29,609 --> 00:17:32,149 Speaker 3: were beautiful and they were having fun. And this is 360 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 3: a whole other side of it that I was not 361 00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:36,740 Speaker 3: involved in because I wasn't selling nickels and dimes and 362 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,500 Speaker 3: I didn't see the addict. I was selling bulk, you know, 363 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:40,340 Speaker 3: as a different level. 364 00:17:40,859 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a cool drug dealer. Yeah. 365 00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: I don't mean that, but I mean, I, I'm trying 366 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:50,790 Speaker 2: to like, I, I do understand absolutely saying, I don't know. 367 00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:52,990 Speaker 2: How are you, do you stay off drugs now? And 368 00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:55,429 Speaker 2: I don't look just in terms of, do you go 369 00:17:55,450 --> 00:17:58,270 Speaker 2: to a program? Are you, I know you're involved in helping, um, 370 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: in terms of you go back to the prisons, right? 371 00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: And you are helping in rehabilitation. You do a lot 372 00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:06,940 Speaker 2: of charity work, it sounds like, and you're busy and 373 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,740 Speaker 2: you have these two kids. 374 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,330 Speaker 3: I actually am a producer on a podcast with Hunter 375 00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:13,129 Speaker 3: Biden with the Peak Path Health. 376 00:18:13,150 --> 00:18:14,250 Speaker 1: Get out! 377 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:15,730 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 378 00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:17,490 Speaker 1: Oh my God, you just get cooler and cooler. 379 00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:19,710 Speaker 3: Oh, thanks. That's so amazing. 380 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:21,350 Speaker 1: I just saw him on Bill Maher. 381 00:18:22,210 --> 00:18:23,150 Speaker 3: Oh, he's so great. 382 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,700 Speaker 1: He was great. Yeah, he really was. He was great. 383 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,939 Speaker 3: Wonderful. So, I mean, what was that? 384 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: How did you meet Hunter Biden? 385 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:32,820 Speaker 3: Um, my, my husband reps him. 386 00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: Ah, yeah. 387 00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:37,780 Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's such a great guy. He's such a 388 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:41,290 Speaker 3: great guy. So, yeah, I mean, I, I, I talk 389 00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:45,010 Speaker 3: about addiction to people and try to help them and 390 00:18:45,030 --> 00:18:47,690 Speaker 3: I go inside prisons and, you know, talk to the 391 00:18:48,690 --> 00:18:51,490 Speaker 3: people who are locked up and try to mentor them, 392 00:18:51,869 --> 00:18:54,109 Speaker 3: you know, when they get out even, uh, cause it's 393 00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:55,270 Speaker 3: not easy, you know? 394 00:18:55,290 --> 00:18:56,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 395 00:18:57,150 --> 00:18:59,500 Speaker 2: So, um, I want to talk about, you know, you've 396 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,260 Speaker 2: ultimately decided to cooperate and you. 397 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,050 Speaker 1: Saved yourself a lot of years. 398 00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:11,470 Speaker 2: But I am wondering just were you ever scared of 399 00:19:11,550 --> 00:19:14,489 Speaker 2: the repercussions of that, of just like once you got out? 400 00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:16,170 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm coming from movies about 401 00:19:16,190 --> 00:19:17,010 Speaker 1: this shit, you know? 402 00:19:17,770 --> 00:19:21,710 Speaker 3: No, I mean, at the time. I was facing a 403 00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:23,859 Speaker 3: lot of years. I had a lot of people. 404 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: What was it? 14 or how many more? 405 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,740 Speaker 3: 15 to 18 plus the 10 for conspiracy. And I 406 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,580 Speaker 3: had so many people testifying against me that I just 407 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,619 Speaker 3: had to like say, okay, listen, I'm not going to 408 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,590 Speaker 3: win this trial. And I just had to, you know, face, 409 00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:47,230 Speaker 3: face my responsibility and my involvement and just, you know, so, okay, 410 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:50,450 Speaker 3: I have to take responsibility for my actions. So. 411 00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:54,310 Speaker 2: What do you think was, you talk about prison, none 412 00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:57,409 Speaker 2: of it seems easy or fun, but what do you 413 00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: think was the hardest part of it? If you had to, 414 00:20:00,150 --> 00:20:02,210 Speaker 2: you know, sort of narrow it down to something that was. 415 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say obviously being away from my family 416 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,379 Speaker 3: and missing their lives and missing you know, moments in 417 00:20:11,420 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 3: their lives that were special and important. And, but I 418 00:20:15,619 --> 00:20:18,930 Speaker 3: think for me as myself, like when I first came in, 419 00:20:18,970 --> 00:20:22,419 Speaker 3: it was really hard for me to like, Am I 420 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: going to do my whole time with a mindset of 421 00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:29,389 Speaker 3: inside prison? At first, I was always worried about, oh, 422 00:20:29,450 --> 00:20:32,330 Speaker 3: what's Jeff doing? What's Greg doing? What's this? Who's dating who? 423 00:20:32,690 --> 00:20:35,650 Speaker 3: And I had no business even thinking about the outside 424 00:20:35,670 --> 00:20:39,150 Speaker 3: because that's doing hard time. But if you completely forget 425 00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:43,270 Speaker 3: about the outside and you're just in this prison bubble, 426 00:20:43,609 --> 00:20:44,790 Speaker 3: then you change completely. 427 00:20:45,050 --> 00:20:47,890 Speaker 1: You say that prisoners, do you, is that, that seems 428 00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: like very sound advice. 429 00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:52,100 Speaker 2: I don't want to ever have anybody need to give 430 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: me that advice, but it's like what you just said 431 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,020 Speaker 2: seems key, right? Like to think about the outside world 432 00:20:58,460 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: is what makes it unbearable. 433 00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:03,020 Speaker 3: It makes it unbearable, but if you can't lose who 434 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,030 Speaker 3: you're from and you can't lose sight of who you 435 00:21:06,369 --> 00:21:09,410 Speaker 3: are or else you're just going to come out completely 436 00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:11,370 Speaker 3: different and not in a good way. 437 00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:11,450 Speaker 2: So. 438 00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:15,169 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was kind of my battle. And listen, I 439 00:21:15,210 --> 00:21:17,780 Speaker 3: give it to God. I always say, I read the Bible. 440 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: I give it all to him because he's the one 441 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 3: who gave me strength to get through. It wasn't my strength. 442 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:24,060 Speaker 3: It was his strength. 443 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,940 Speaker 1: But you were certainly strong. You were hustling even in prison. 444 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, makeup. 445 00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:33,060 Speaker 1: I mean, yes. 446 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you were ever lazy. Lazy 447 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: was not. I mean, you were always sort of a 448 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,220 Speaker 2: go-getter of sorts, right? 449 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,929 Speaker 1: Yes. Even in the pokey, you were like, you were busy. Yeah. 450 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:47,750 Speaker 1: I think probably did help. I mean, I don't know. 451 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:52,370 Speaker 2: You ever seen like someone who gave up no matter what, 452 00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:56,190 Speaker 2: even from the beginning of it, of your story until 453 00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: the end of your story, you know, all your relationships 454 00:21:58,740 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 2: and your loyalty. And even though I feel like you 455 00:22:02,180 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: did trade in your sense of self, you know, for loyalty, 456 00:22:06,820 --> 00:22:09,350 Speaker 2: but I don't know. I feel like you were a 457 00:22:09,410 --> 00:22:14,070 Speaker 2: young girl who still had a lot of, dare I say, 458 00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:16,390 Speaker 2: self-esteem or, you know. 459 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 460 00:22:18,020 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: You were good, like until you weren't. 461 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:21,020 Speaker 3: I don't know. 462 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Like in prison, like you were 463 00:22:22,859 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: a very strong woman. 464 00:22:23,859 --> 00:22:25,859 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you have to be, you know, 465 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,940 Speaker 3: you're thrown into a situation and it's either sink or swim, 466 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,010 Speaker 3: you know, and I think it was that pivotal moment 467 00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:35,330 Speaker 3: when I was in Oakland and I had the opportunity 468 00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:39,190 Speaker 3: to look at life in one way of, you know, 469 00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 3: could have, should have, would have, and then there's people 470 00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: who have it worse. And once you're able to, and 471 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,820 Speaker 3: I take that with me now, even right now, you know, uh, 472 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,379 Speaker 3: I think that's good for everybody to, to always, cause everyone, 473 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,139 Speaker 3: especially in LA, we always compare ourselves to bigger and better. 474 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,379 Speaker 1: And you still do that. 475 00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 3: Oh, constantly, yes. 476 00:22:58,150 --> 00:22:58,510 Speaker 1: You do? 477 00:22:58,859 --> 00:23:01,980 Speaker 3: Yes, yes. But I put myself into check like that. 478 00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true. My shrink says that. Like, 479 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,100 Speaker 1: that's just human nature. The trick is to notice it, right? Yeah. 480 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,459 Speaker 2: The trick is to, I don't know, notice it and 481 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: be able to sort of put yourself in check as 482 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: you just. 483 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,100 Speaker 3: I'm grateful for everything. I'm grateful for, you know... like, 484 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:23,270 Speaker 3: do I want to have more or go shopping more? 485 00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:25,010 Speaker 3: And you know what I mean? Or do this and 486 00:23:25,030 --> 00:23:26,910 Speaker 3: do that? Like, I don't need it. I don't need 487 00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:29,389 Speaker 3: all that stuff. I didn't, I survived in prison off 488 00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:32,310 Speaker 3: of like, you know, three shirts and two pants. And like, 489 00:23:32,410 --> 00:23:35,290 Speaker 3: I don't need all these bags and like, what's happening, 490 00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:35,690 Speaker 3: you know? 491 00:23:35,710 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 2: I mean, dude, you have like Charlie Sheen writing you, like, 492 00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: you know, recommending your book. You've got, wait, I have 493 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 2: like all this list of all these big shot superstars 494 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,510 Speaker 2: that are obsessed with the book. 495 00:23:48,530 --> 00:23:49,669 Speaker 1: I don't know where did I put it? 496 00:23:49,670 --> 00:23:50,109 Speaker 3: It was Charlie. 497 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:53,330 Speaker 2: She obviously was Heidi Fleiss. It was Jenny Garth. It 498 00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:56,189 Speaker 2: was Mario Lopez, Victoria. 499 00:23:56,609 --> 00:24:00,130 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you, all of that. I mean, 500 00:24:00,470 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: who cares about bags? You wrote this book and it's like, yeah. Oh, awesome. 501 00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:07,619 Speaker 1: And my guess is that my I'm betting on, it's 502 00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:11,139 Speaker 1: going to take off. And who's going to play you 503 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,580 Speaker 1: in the movie? 504 00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:13,530 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. I have no idea. 505 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:14,629 Speaker 1: You never thought about it? 506 00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:18,420 Speaker 3: I mean, for a while now, but so much time 507 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: has changed. They're probably older now. So I have no idea. Yeah. 508 00:24:21,940 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 3: I'm really open to anybody who's, you know, who's ready 509 00:24:26,619 --> 00:24:28,740 Speaker 3: to take on a big role and have some fun. 510 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:45,660 Speaker 1: It is. It's a very big role. My God. Tell 511 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: me about your life now and, and what does it 512 00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:50,700 Speaker 1: look like? And is it quiet? 513 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,419 Speaker 2: Is it, I know you're doing, you do a lot 514 00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:54,770 Speaker 2: and you just wrote a major book and all of that, 515 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: but like on a day to day, what is it like? 516 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,330 Speaker 3: I mean, I have two kids who are, you know, 517 00:24:59,490 --> 00:25:02,630 Speaker 3: my forefront of everything. They're both in universities now. 518 00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:03,430 Speaker 1: Yeah. 519 00:25:03,450 --> 00:25:06,810 Speaker 3: I have one in Madrid right now. They must be 520 00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:12,619 Speaker 3: very bright. Yes, they are. They're very smart. And my 521 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: son's in Boston. He just did a year in London. 522 00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:18,899 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I literally just dropped them off. So 523 00:25:18,940 --> 00:25:22,139 Speaker 3: I'm like empty nester, my husband and I. So I've 524 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: been busy with launching the book. I have a supplement company. 525 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:27,609 Speaker 3: Love Me Nutrition. 526 00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:30,170 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 527 00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:33,570 Speaker 3: You know, I work on different projects producing. I have 528 00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:35,669 Speaker 3: a lot going on. I have a producing partner that 529 00:25:35,690 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 3: I'm working with and I'm working on different documentaries. So 530 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,740 Speaker 3: I'm always working on something for sure. So I keep 531 00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:43,500 Speaker 3: that hustle mentality, I think. 532 00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: No doubt. 533 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: So in terms of your kids, were you a helicopter mom? 534 00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you were always more nervous because 535 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: of what you've been through? 536 00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:56,570 Speaker 3: I think I'm the cool mom until they realize I'm not. 537 00:25:56,790 --> 00:26:00,590 Speaker 3: So I'm cool and I feel like I'm friends with 538 00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:03,350 Speaker 3: all of their friends. You know, they travel with us. 539 00:26:03,390 --> 00:26:05,710 Speaker 3: We bring them to Europe with us. And we just 540 00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:08,629 Speaker 3: like we have like they're really, truly my best friends. 541 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:10,780 Speaker 3: Like I love hanging out with them. But then when 542 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 3: they do shit or if I see something, I'll be like, no, 543 00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:17,140 Speaker 3: that's not cool. And they're like, what do you mean? 544 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,300 Speaker 3: Like you did. No, no, no. You're the better version 545 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,139 Speaker 3: of me. And that's just not going to happen. So 546 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: then I become super uncool. 547 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:26,900 Speaker 2: How old were they when you told them and sort 548 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,290 Speaker 2: of described what your life had been like? 549 00:26:28,530 --> 00:26:30,850 Speaker 3: Oh, they knew from the very beginning. They're so sweet. 550 00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:33,510 Speaker 3: Like they knew from elementary school because I've been working 551 00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:34,510 Speaker 3: on this book for a while. 552 00:26:34,530 --> 00:26:35,430 Speaker 1: And they're like, what are you writing? 553 00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:40,869 Speaker 3: Oh, my life. And yeah. So they've always been very supportive. Yeah. 554 00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:42,109 Speaker 1: Yeah. No doubt. 555 00:26:42,510 --> 00:26:42,910 Speaker 3: No doubt. 556 00:26:43,390 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: I'm just, you know, I'm picturing myself with my kids 557 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: in there. 558 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: I have a 24 and a 26 year old. And, 559 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's supposed to get easier. 560 00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:56,020 Speaker 2: I have found that now that they are also, I'm 561 00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:59,010 Speaker 2: an empty nester, although they seem to always be home, 562 00:26:59,050 --> 00:27:03,290 Speaker 2: but whatever. But like they, I don't know, it's just 563 00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:05,889 Speaker 2: a scary world out there, you know? And I haven't 564 00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:08,570 Speaker 2: been through what you've been through, but as a mom, 565 00:27:09,730 --> 00:27:11,710 Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like you're like me. 566 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like you're neurotic. Maybe. 567 00:27:13,980 --> 00:27:16,220 Speaker 3: I mean, I have them on life 360 and I'm like, 568 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 3: where are they? And you know what I mean? I'm like, 569 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,590 Speaker 3: Thank God. I wish my mom and dad had me 570 00:27:21,650 --> 00:27:23,010 Speaker 3: on that when I was younger. 571 00:27:23,030 --> 00:27:25,350 Speaker 2: That was going to be my next question. And again, 572 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:27,330 Speaker 2: you made it very clear in your book how much 573 00:27:27,369 --> 00:27:30,730 Speaker 2: you love and loved and love your parents and that 574 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:33,820 Speaker 2: they were wonderful and loving. So this is not a slight, 575 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,300 Speaker 2: but I know you did mention also there were times 576 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: that you wish your mom was stricter. 577 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,379 Speaker 1: You wish your dad was more tuned in, right? And 578 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,619 Speaker 1: it seems like you were always so loving and with them. 579 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,420 Speaker 1: I mean, did you ever have those discussions with them? No. 580 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 3: I mean, after what I put them through, I think 581 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,619 Speaker 3: we're even right. 582 00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: So fair enough. 583 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,810 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 584 00:27:56,890 --> 00:27:58,510 Speaker 1: I wonder what made them like that. 585 00:27:58,690 --> 00:27:59,010 Speaker 3: Right. 586 00:27:59,190 --> 00:28:00,270 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking about your mom. 587 00:28:01,290 --> 00:28:05,030 Speaker 3: Really nice and naive, super naive. And she trusted me. 588 00:28:05,109 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 3: I gave her nothing to think otherwise honest. I mean, 589 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,619 Speaker 3: other than like, yeah, I am dating a drug dealer. 590 00:28:10,660 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: Like why you could do better. Like, No offense to Rich, 591 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,170 Speaker 3: but even my brother, you know, so she loved my 592 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:19,250 Speaker 3: brother and she had no judgment on him. So when 593 00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:22,190 Speaker 3: she meets another person and she knows him and he's 594 00:28:22,270 --> 00:28:26,899 Speaker 3: nice and he's, you know, generous and he knows how 595 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:27,940 Speaker 3: to speak. 596 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: And talk, you know, it's not. 597 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 3: Like some gangbanger walking in and it's like, woo, red flag, 598 00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 3: you know? 599 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: It's like this naivete. Yeah, I get it. Nice. And yeah, yeah. 600 00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:41,630 Speaker 2: And I want to ask, Before I have my next question, 601 00:28:41,650 --> 00:28:44,350 Speaker 2: I want to ask you, how is she doing? I mean, 602 00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:45,370 Speaker 2: I especially think of Jeff. 603 00:28:46,810 --> 00:28:47,590 Speaker 3: How's my mom doing? 604 00:28:47,610 --> 00:28:49,050 Speaker 1: She's good. 605 00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:49,890 Speaker 3: She's good. 606 00:28:49,910 --> 00:28:50,970 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so glad. 607 00:28:51,250 --> 00:28:53,430 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's really good. I mean, she lives alone in 608 00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:55,380 Speaker 3: Orange County, so I have to go down there and 609 00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:59,460 Speaker 3: take care of her and things like that. So, yeah. Yeah, 610 00:29:00,020 --> 00:29:01,180 Speaker 3: but she's good. Yeah. 611 00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:04,530 Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought it was really cool the way, like 612 00:29:04,550 --> 00:29:08,690 Speaker 1: the music that you wove through, but also the food thing, right? Oh, 613 00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:11,630 Speaker 1: I love that. 614 00:29:10,770 --> 00:29:11,670 Speaker 3: You noticed all that. 615 00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:13,690 Speaker 1: I'm so happy. 616 00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:14,050 Speaker 2: Yeah. 617 00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:16,550 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's what makes a good book. 618 00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:19,610 Speaker 2: I feel like, like, it's just, it's, it's also sensory, 619 00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: you know, and even the way you described a lot of, 620 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: of the cooking and the food. And I feel like 621 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,980 Speaker 2: that for you, those smells, right? Garlic was so much 622 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:31,540 Speaker 2: part of like home and your nostalgia, right? 623 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:35,340 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And I try to do that here. Everybody, 624 00:29:35,380 --> 00:29:38,110 Speaker 3: like I said, my kids, all their friends, they all 625 00:29:38,130 --> 00:29:40,830 Speaker 3: come over for dinner and things like that. So I 626 00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:42,770 Speaker 3: like to keep the tradition going. 627 00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:46,620 Speaker 1: I love that. I'm wondering with your husband, obviously you 628 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: are high. 629 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,940 Speaker 2: Yes. Like I was spent seven years in prison and 630 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: I was a drug dealer and how did, was that 631 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,950 Speaker 2: a hard pill for him to swallow at the beginning? 632 00:29:59,470 --> 00:30:01,870 Speaker 1: Obviously you're worth it. So no, it wasn't. 633 00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:05,100 Speaker 3: No, I mean, he knew before I even met him, 634 00:30:05,270 --> 00:30:08,590 Speaker 3: we were at a big party in Hollywood Hills and 635 00:30:08,690 --> 00:30:12,550 Speaker 3: he heard, oh, hey, that's Heidi Fleiss's roommate from prison. 636 00:30:12,770 --> 00:30:15,709 Speaker 3: So I didn't have to say anything. So he really 637 00:30:15,790 --> 00:30:19,970 Speaker 3: like was coming to me, like wanting to date me 638 00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:21,890 Speaker 3: and wanting, and I lived in Orange County at the 639 00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:24,030 Speaker 3: time I was on probation. And I was like, I 640 00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:26,230 Speaker 3: don't really go out on dates. Like I don't want 641 00:30:26,290 --> 00:30:30,190 Speaker 3: to like sit there and, you know, like a resume, 642 00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 3: like I'm going for a job and answer all these questions. 643 00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 3: Like if I feel comfortable with you and you're like, 644 00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:37,740 Speaker 3: you know, and you're like my friend and I like 645 00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:40,459 Speaker 3: you and there's chemistry, then we'll date. And so he 646 00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: really like, I mean, he was working, he was a manager, 647 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:46,070 Speaker 3: entertainment manager. And so he would drive down after a 648 00:30:46,150 --> 00:30:49,470 Speaker 3: hard day's long work, you know, and to Orange County 649 00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:52,220 Speaker 3: and take me out to dinner and, we became really 650 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,340 Speaker 3: good friends and obviously, you know, had chemistry. So it 651 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,530 Speaker 3: ended up working out. So. 652 00:30:57,250 --> 00:30:57,670 Speaker 1: I love that. 653 00:30:58,270 --> 00:31:01,570 Speaker 2: I know you talked about PTSD, but briefly, I feel like, 654 00:31:01,630 --> 00:31:02,230 Speaker 2: how is that? 655 00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:03,530 Speaker 1: Do you still feel like you have it? I mean, 656 00:31:03,550 --> 00:31:07,130 Speaker 1: it was a long time ago now, but deep nightmare. No. 657 00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:08,190 Speaker 3: I mean, I did. 658 00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:08,390 Speaker 1: Yeah. 659 00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:10,229 Speaker 3: I had a lot of dreams, a lot of dreams. 660 00:31:10,530 --> 00:31:12,450 Speaker 3: And I still do every once in a while. I'll 661 00:31:12,490 --> 00:31:14,910 Speaker 3: be in prison in my dreams. It's so funny. I 662 00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:17,210 Speaker 3: talked to, I mean, I was texting Jenny Garth and 663 00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:18,710 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my God, you were in jail 664 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,860 Speaker 3: with me. And she's like, we would have had a 665 00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,700 Speaker 3: lot of fun. But yeah, I mean, there's just like, 666 00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:28,540 Speaker 3: sometimes I'm back in there, you know, and I, and 667 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,620 Speaker 3: I'm always like trying to put, which is like so nostalgic. 668 00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:33,900 Speaker 3: I'm trying to put a quarter in a pay phone. Right. 669 00:31:34,930 --> 00:31:37,490 Speaker 3: And I either don't remember the number. 670 00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:40,510 Speaker 1: Or it's just not working. 671 00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:44,780 Speaker 3: I'll have that. But I think now the only thing 672 00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:47,060 Speaker 3: that's really weird about me is that I do get 673 00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:51,540 Speaker 3: claustrophobic now, which is like a weird thing that just happened. Interesting. 674 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,850 Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the book. I wish you all the 675 00:31:54,930 --> 00:31:56,990 Speaker 1: best and tremendous success with it. 676 00:31:57,370 --> 00:32:00,090 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Yeah, I was scared putting it 677 00:32:00,170 --> 00:32:01,570 Speaker 3: out there. I was like, I don't know, am I 678 00:32:01,610 --> 00:32:04,790 Speaker 3: going to get canceled, rearrested? Like what's happening? No way. 679 00:32:04,810 --> 00:32:06,450 Speaker 3: No way. 680 00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:08,950 Speaker 1: I predict you're going to be a very busy woman. 681 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:09,540 Speaker 3: Thank you. 682 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,700 Speaker 1: I'm sure you are already, but even more busy. So 683 00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you really for joining us. 684 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.