Speaker 1: My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything. I get my
Speaker 1: assistant racist eyes at people and meeting Why does my
Speaker 1: coworker keep taking credit for all my idea? Have any
Speaker 1: wisdom for me? Hi, I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Aska Manager Podcast. Right answer questions from listeners about life
Speaker 1: at work. Everything from what to say if you're allergic
Speaker 1: to your coworkers perfume to what to do if you
Speaker 1: drink too much at the company party. Let's get started, Hi,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the show. If you listened all the
Speaker 1: way to the end of last week's episode, you heard
Speaker 1: me say that this week's show will be the final
Speaker 1: episode of the Asking Manager Podcast. I will talk more
Speaker 1: towards the end of this episode about why I made
Speaker 1: that decision, But first, we have a bunch of interesting
Speaker 1: questions from callers to tackle, and here is the first one. Hi,
Speaker 1: Alice and I really enjoy the show. And Uh, I
Speaker 1: wanted to run it scenario by you that happened to
Speaker 1: a friend of mine the other day. He told me
Speaker 1: that one of his direct reports had asked him for
Speaker 1: a reference for a part time weekend gig to make
Speaker 1: some extra money. He said that this, Uh, this staff
Speaker 1: member was a high performer. In fact, he kind of
Speaker 1: used him as being one of the best, and so
Speaker 1: therefore he didn't have any qualms about giving him a reference.
Speaker 1: So fast forward to a few weeks later, and this
Speaker 1: same employee is tendering his resignation and it turns out
Speaker 1: that it is a full time job, and my friend
Speaker 1: learns that he was lied to. That staff member lied
Speaker 1: to him about it being a weekend job. My friend
Speaker 1: feels betrayed, and he feels shame. He is saying that
Speaker 1: they're now losing one of the best staff members, and
Speaker 1: he has a mind to call back the woman in
Speaker 1: HR the other job that he gave the reference to
Speaker 1: and tell her what happened. What do you think he
Speaker 1: should do? Should he call her or should he just
Speaker 1: bite the bullet and take the loss. I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear what you say about it. Thanks, great question. So first, no,
Speaker 1: he definitely should not call the other employer. It's really
Speaker 1: natural to be disappointed when a great employee leaves, and
Speaker 1: I get that. It's weird to realize that the person
Speaker 1: wasn't fully honest with him about what was going on
Speaker 1: when he asked for the reference. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's generally not safe for people to be completely honest
Speaker 1: with their managers when their job searching. My mail is
Speaker 1: full of letters from people whose managers found out that
Speaker 1: they were job searching, confronted them about it, and then
Speaker 1: pushed them out earlier than they had planned to leave.
Speaker 1: And that is a huge danger for people. And as
Speaker 1: a manager, you've got to understand that people worry about that.
Speaker 1: And even if you, as a manager, know that you
Speaker 1: would never do that, your employees don't necessarily know that.
Speaker 1: And really, even if they figure that you probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: penalize them or push them out earlier than they want
Speaker 1: to go, they might not feel like they can risk
Speaker 1: even a tiny chance of that. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: people's livelihoods that we're talking about, So the stakes are
Speaker 1: really really high if they trust you and then it
Speaker 1: turns out that they were wrong. So as a manager,
Speaker 1: you've kind of just accept that people won't always feel
Speaker 1: comfortable or safe letting you know when they're thinking about leaving.
Speaker 1: It sounds like this employee was being pushed by the
Speaker 1: new employer to get a reference from the current job,
Speaker 1: which isn't cool, by the way, because of exactly what
Speaker 1: I was just talking about. But some employers will do that,
Speaker 1: they'll insist on talking to your current manager before they'll
Speaker 1: make you an offer. And if that was what happened here,
Speaker 1: then this guy was in a really difficult position. You know,
Speaker 1: he obviously didn't feel like he could safely be honest
Speaker 1: with her his boss, or he wasn't willing to trust
Speaker 1: in that possibility for the reasons we are just talking about,
Speaker 1: and so he came up with this cover story about
Speaker 1: it being for a part time job. And it's pretty
Speaker 1: understandable when you look at it like that. But while
Speaker 1: I can understand your friend not being thrilled that he
Speaker 1: was lied to, he's got to look at the bigger
Speaker 1: picture here. You know, the employee did it because he
Speaker 1: didn't feel safe potentially putting his job on the line.
Speaker 1: That is understandable. It's not a huge betrayal. Your friends
Speaker 1: should understand why he did it, and he should wish
Speaker 1: him well. He definitely should not, under any circumstances, contact
Speaker 1: the other employer to report this. That would be just
Speaker 1: incredibly crappy to do, and frankly, he'd probably come off
Speaker 1: really strangely to the other employer. Plus there's another audience
Speaker 1: for stuff like this, and that is your friends, other employees.
Speaker 1: If the rest of his staff here that he tried
Speaker 1: to sabotage someone's new job, that's going to destroy any
Speaker 1: trust that they had in him. I mean, if he's
Speaker 1: upset that this guy didn't trust him enough to tell
Speaker 1: him that he was job searching, no one will ever
Speaker 1: tell him anything sensitive again if he does that, So
Speaker 1: he really can't do that. The best thing that he
Speaker 1: can do here is to apologize to the employee if
Speaker 1: he was anything other than gracious when he got his resignation,
Speaker 1: and wish him well and mean it sincerely. Because if
Speaker 1: he wants to be upset with anything here, be upset
Speaker 1: with the system that forces job seekers into this kind
Speaker 1: of position. Okay, here is the next call. I work
Speaker 1: at a company where the entry level role requires a
Speaker 1: lot of training to become independent. Typically it's a full
Speaker 1: six months of a senior person's time before they can
Speaker 1: work on their own. Because of this intense amount of training,
Speaker 1: we generally try to weed out people interested in grad
Speaker 1: school during the interview process. Despite that effort, I overheard
Speaker 1: one of the newest people on my team say that
Speaker 1: he's studying for the g r E, which tells me
Speaker 1: he's likely trying to get into grad school next year.
Speaker 1: I'm totally okay with people pursuing grad school if that's
Speaker 1: what's best for their career, but given the amount of
Speaker 1: time it takes to train someone for the role, it's
Speaker 1: frustrating to have people leave for grad school only a
Speaker 1: year after they start, and this happens quite frequently. I
Speaker 1: think this is partly due to the role not being
Speaker 1: the most glamorous, and also due to the fact that
Speaker 1: the role requires very smart people but doesn't pay that much,
Speaker 1: something which I don't have any control over. My question
Speaker 1: has several parts. Firstly, for this particular person, if we
Speaker 1: talk to him and it turns out he's planning on
Speaker 1: leaving in nine months or less, is it okay to
Speaker 1: limit his responsibilities or would that be unethical? It would
Speaker 1: make sense to train him on fewer things, so we
Speaker 1: don't spend a lot of time on the more complex
Speaker 1: tasks that he will only use for a short period. However,
Speaker 1: that would then of course limit his possibilities for growth,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that's technically allowable, And we would also,
Speaker 1: i'm sure, lose any opportunity to convince him it would
Speaker 1: be worthwhile to stay. Secondly, for the future. What are
Speaker 1: some things we can do to stop this situation happening?
Speaker 1: Is it okay to explicitly ask people during the interview
Speaker 1: process if they intend to go to grad school and
Speaker 1: tell them we are not interested in candidates planning to
Speaker 1: go to grad school in the next two years. In
Speaker 1: a company where I don't have control over the salary,
Speaker 1: is there anything I can do to either hire people
Speaker 1: who intend to stay or to encourage people to stay
Speaker 1: instead of going back to school right away. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is tricky. It is absolutely true that there are jobs
Speaker 1: where it really doesn't make sense to invest in training
Speaker 1: someone if they're going to leave for grad school in
Speaker 1: a year or for any other reason in a year.
Speaker 1: There are jobs where it really does take like nine
Speaker 1: months or longer before you're really comfortable with the work
Speaker 1: and where you know what you're doing. And if it's
Speaker 1: that kind of job, it doesn't make sense to bring
Speaker 1: someone on knowing that they're going to leave before they're
Speaker 1: fully trained and before your investment in them has paid off.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, though, you also can't really require
Speaker 1: people to make rock solid commitments to you if you,
Speaker 1: as the employer, aren't willing to do that in return.
Speaker 1: Most employers in the US don't use contracts and can
Speaker 1: let someone go at any time, and so in that context,
Speaker 1: it's not entirely fair to say, we want you to
Speaker 1: commit to us for two years, but we're not going
Speaker 1: to make a real commitment in return. Now, I realize
Speaker 1: that you're not asking anyone to put anything in writing
Speaker 1: on their side, so it's that's not a perfect comparison.
Speaker 1: But in general, you want to keep in mind that
Speaker 1: in any employment relationship without a contract that spells out
Speaker 1: how long both sides are committing for, you've got to
Speaker 1: be okay to some extent with people leaving earlier than
Speaker 1: you would like if that turns out to be what's
Speaker 1: best for them. But that doesn't mean that there's nothing
Speaker 1: you can do here. It's reasonable to explain in your
Speaker 1: hiring process that you're looking for people who will hopefully
Speaker 1: stay in the role for a minimum of two years,
Speaker 1: and you can explain why, and you can also say
Speaker 1: this role tends to attract people were thinking about grad school,
Speaker 1: and so we would ask that if that is your plan,
Speaker 1: we'd ask that you not pursue this particular role because
Speaker 1: we really need someone who will be here for at
Speaker 1: least a couple of years. That doesn't mean that it
Speaker 1: won't happen anyway. Some people will agree to that, but
Speaker 1: then their lives will change and plans will change, and
Speaker 1: months in they will realize that they do want to
Speaker 1: apply to grad school now. And you can't totally avoid
Speaker 1: that ever happening. But by saying it explicitly during the
Speaker 1: hiring process, some people will weed themselves out or think
Speaker 1: more carefully about what they're committing to. And then if
Speaker 1: it does turn out that someone has decided to apply
Speaker 1: to grad school while they're still early on with you,
Speaker 1: there is nothing wrong with deciding that you're going to
Speaker 1: do what's best for you business wise in terms of
Speaker 1: what projects you give them and how you train them
Speaker 1: and how you invest in them. I would just make
Speaker 1: sure that they are indeed applying, don't rely on the
Speaker 1: rumor mill for this, and also be transparent with them.
Speaker 1: Tell them what you're doing so that they don't notice
Speaker 1: that they're being given different projects and draw their own
Speaker 1: conclusions about why. So you could say something like I
Speaker 1: absolutely support you and going to grad school if that's
Speaker 1: what's right for you, but I also want to be
Speaker 1: transparent with you that it doesn't make sense for us
Speaker 1: to invest the amount of time that we would need
Speaker 1: to invest in training you in X. If your plans
Speaker 1: change and you plan to stay, I would love to
Speaker 1: get you onto that track, but given that we have
Speaker 1: limited resources, it doesn't make sense to invest them in
Speaker 1: training in this right now. So let's focus on Y
Speaker 1: and Z instead. And you asked if that is technically allowable,
Speaker 1: which I think is you asking if it's legal, And yes,
Speaker 1: it is perfectly legal to do that. Let's take a
Speaker 1: short break here and then when we come back, we
Speaker 1: have a question about fending off unwanted hugs and lots more. Hi, Alison,
Speaker 1: my name is Jenna. I was diagnosed with a very
Speaker 1: serious health concern back in July. And at the time
Speaker 1: that I was diagnosed UM, I had told several people
Speaker 1: at my work and of course, as it goes, it
Speaker 1: went around like wildfire, which I expected, and early on
Speaker 1: in my diagnosis people would come up to me at
Speaker 1: my work and hug me. You know, hey, I heard
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear this and give me a hug,
Speaker 1: and at the time I was uncomfortable with it. But
Speaker 1: I understood that that was what people were going to do.
Speaker 1: But now I'm three and a half months down the
Speaker 1: road and I'm in treatment for things, and I'm still
Speaker 1: being approached by people who want to hug me. And
Speaker 1: I know this is silly. It's definitely not sexual harassment
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So I don't feel like I
Speaker 1: need to go to HR. But I don't know how
Speaker 1: to decline a hug from somebody. I know it sounds weird.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be hugged one. I don't wanna,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to avoid contact because of you
Speaker 1: know terms, and also it's just okay, I'm ready to
Speaker 1: move on. I don't want this to be what I'm
Speaker 1: known for. I don't want it to be the focus
Speaker 1: of my work life. How do I make sure that
Speaker 1: everyone respects that boundary and doesn't hug me against my will?
Speaker 1: And I don't want it to sound like it's a
Speaker 1: real serious issue, but it is a problem for me.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, thank you. It's totally understandable that
Speaker 1: you don't want to be hugged at work all the time,
Speaker 1: especially in the context of sympathy. I mean, sympathy, of course,
Speaker 1: can be a lovely thing, but it sounds at this
Speaker 1: point like it's just too much. It's completely reasonable that
Speaker 1: you want to shut down those hugs. It's not silly.
Speaker 1: I mean, it wouldn't be silly even if this weren't
Speaker 1: connected to your illness. If you just were getting a
Speaker 1: lot of unwanted hugs and you wanted them to stop,
Speaker 1: that would be completely legitimate. But then add in on
Speaker 1: top of that that it's sort of keeping you constantly
Speaker 1: in this role as the sick person who's the recipient
Speaker 1: of people's sympathy. And of course that's something that you
Speaker 1: might feel you don't want at work and would prefer
Speaker 1: to shut down. So I don't think you're being silly
Speaker 1: at all. I think there are a few things that
Speaker 1: you can do. One is, when you see someone going
Speaker 1: in for a hug, you can just say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm really not a hugger, and you can even laugh
Speaker 1: about it a little. You know, people keep trying to
Speaker 1: hug me. It's so kind of them, but it's actually
Speaker 1: my nightmare. That's what I would say, or I probably
Speaker 1: should have said it earlier when everyone started enveloping me
Speaker 1: and hugs all the time. Or you can skip that,
Speaker 1: and you can just stick with I'm not a hugger,
Speaker 1: but thank you so much for being so nice, or
Speaker 1: as an alternative, you mentioned that one of the reasons
Speaker 1: you don't want to hug is because you're avoiding germs,
Speaker 1: and so you possibly could lean into that and say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not hugging because of germs, but it's very likely
Speaker 1: that people are going to read that as connected with
Speaker 1: your health can shion, and that might reinforce this exact
Speaker 1: thing that you're trying to get them to not have
Speaker 1: such a focus on. But if you have like one
Speaker 1: or two really aggressive huggers who you can tell aren't
Speaker 1: going to accept that you just don't like hugging because
Speaker 1: those people are out there, you might try the germ
Speaker 1: thing with them and it might be more successful in
Speaker 1: shutting them down. But really it's okay to just say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not a hugger. And if you're worried about that
Speaker 1: feeling maybe a little chilly, which it shouldn't, but you
Speaker 1: might worry about it, just follow it up with something warm,
Speaker 1: you know, Ask how they're doing, Ask about their new
Speaker 1: puppy or their kid, or how that meeting went yesterday,
Speaker 1: or just anything else that demonstrates that you're taking an
Speaker 1: interest in them, not rejecting them as a person. And
Speaker 1: it might feel a little awkward the first few times,
Speaker 1: but just remind yourself that anyone who is truly kind,
Speaker 1: I really wouldn't want to be forcing unwanted hugs on
Speaker 1: someone and making them uncomfortable, So speak up and it
Speaker 1: should be fine. I hope that helps. Okay, here's the
Speaker 1: next call. Hey, Allison. Um So, I have been job
Speaker 1: hunting for over a year while unemployed, and after many,
Speaker 1: many rejections and a short time temping, I'm finally starting
Speaker 1: to see the pattern. Um So, every place I've gotten
Speaker 1: an interview, I make it to the second or third
Speaker 1: round of interviews after one or even two phone interviews
Speaker 1: before hearing no or literally just not hearing anything at all,
Speaker 1: which is very frustrating, but I know I shouldn't take personally.
Speaker 1: I've honestly lost count, but I'd say, um I've gotten
Speaker 1: to this point with probably ten serious perspective positions in
Speaker 1: the last year. In fact, this whole year, I've never
Speaker 1: had just one interview. It's always been multiples, which I
Speaker 1: guess is a good sign. But I've received no feedback
Speaker 1: other than other candidates were more qualified. So I wonder
Speaker 1: if I'm just qualified enough to be considered as kind
Speaker 1: of an outlier but not really hirable. Um As I
Speaker 1: often see the same positions I applied for reposted after
Speaker 1: I hear now. So I do my homework, I prepare,
Speaker 1: I practice, I keep fine tuning my resume and my
Speaker 1: cover letters. I'm definitely not suffering from overconfidence. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'm worried that I'm starting to give off kind of
Speaker 1: a defeated and depleted vibe to potential employers in that
Speaker 1: final round, and that's what's making them pass on me. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't have the money to get certified in something
Speaker 1: or return to school. Um. Should I be aiming slightly
Speaker 1: lower to build experience or should I embrace underemployment and
Speaker 1: start wrestling up more side gigs? Um? I love the
Speaker 1: blog in the show, It's been really helpful to me
Speaker 1: on my unemployment search, both with sound advice and heavy
Speaker 1: dose of schatten Ford. And one last thing I'm hoping
Speaker 1: you can weigh in on. So my grandma is convinced
Speaker 1: that I'm not getting a job because I wear my
Speaker 1: hair in a bun like a top knot, and I'm
Speaker 1: a nervous hair player, and I like put it up
Speaker 1: and put it down and fess with it. And I
Speaker 1: feel like having it up is better than me playing
Speaker 1: with it. Um, So I just wanted to get your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that. Thank you well. I do not think
Speaker 1: the issue is your hair. Having your hair up in
Speaker 1: a bun is a super normal hairstyle. It's perfectly professional,
Speaker 1: and in fact, it's so normal and professional that I
Speaker 1: am wondering if it's something different the one and picturing
Speaker 1: you also said top not, So I'm wondering if it's
Speaker 1: something more like remember Bam Bam on the Flintstones, where
Speaker 1: it's kind of shooting up from the top of her
Speaker 1: head and like a fountain of hair. If it's more
Speaker 1: like that, then yeah, it's gonna be too messy for
Speaker 1: most interviews. And so I would agree with your grandma.
Speaker 1: But if you're getting second and third interviews, I really
Speaker 1: doubt that your hair is the reason that they're not
Speaker 1: hiring you. But if it's your standard bun, then no,
Speaker 1: I mean, that is just nothing to second guess. And
Speaker 1: I want to talk more with your grandma to to
Speaker 1: hear what it is that she objects to about it,
Speaker 1: although I probably should not because if she is bothered
Speaker 1: by a bun, she's going to be horrified by the
Speaker 1: state of my own hair. Anyway, I don't think your
Speaker 1: hair is the issue. I actually think it sounds like
Speaker 1: you're doing pretty well, even though I know that you're frustrated.
Speaker 1: You're getting a lot of interviews and you're getting called back,
Speaker 1: so clearly the problem isn't your resume or your cover
Speaker 1: letter or your overall experience relative to the jobs that
Speaker 1: you're applying for, and because you're getting second and third
Speaker 1: interviews too, I don't think it's something glaring that you're
Speaker 1: doing in the interviews, Like if you were terrible at
Speaker 1: interviewing or came across really oddly, or we're offending your
Speaker 1: interviewers in some way, you wouldn't be getting asked back
Speaker 1: to those second and third interviews. I mean, maybe one
Speaker 1: or two companies would be really open minded and give
Speaker 1: you another shot, But this has happened with ten different
Speaker 1: companies in the last year, So I just don't think
Speaker 1: it's that. I think you're probably fine, and you're interviewing fine,
Speaker 1: and you're just having bad luck. Someone else is stronger
Speaker 1: and beats you out, or you're just not the exact
Speaker 1: right match that they're looking for. But you know, if
Speaker 1: I'm on a third interview with a candidate, they're pretty
Speaker 1: damn strong, especially relative to the rest of the candidate
Speaker 1: pool for the position. I'm not interviewing people just to
Speaker 1: waste my time. Or there's they like you and they
Speaker 1: see strengths in you, and that is why they're calling
Speaker 1: you back. If it were just one or two companies,
Speaker 1: maybe we could come up with some alternate explanation. But
Speaker 1: with ten no, I just I don't think so. So
Speaker 1: you said that you're worried that you're giving off a
Speaker 1: defeated vibe by the last interview, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: you really are feeling that way on final interviews, because
Speaker 1: if you are, then yes, that could be showing or
Speaker 1: it could just be affecting your energy or like your
Speaker 1: effect or the way you come across. And I know
Speaker 1: it's really hard to control that if you're feeling that way,
Speaker 1: but definitely definitely pay a lot of attention to that.
Speaker 1: One other thing that you could try is contacting any
Speaker 1: recent interviewers who you felt you had pretty good rapport
Speaker 1: with and ask if they can give you any insight
Speaker 1: into how you could be a stronger candidate for similar
Speaker 1: jobs in the future. Not for them, but for similar jobs,
Speaker 1: because sometimes people are more likely to give feedback when
Speaker 1: they don't feel like they're leading you to think, Oh,
Speaker 1: if I changed this one thing, then the next time
Speaker 1: I apply with this person, they'll hire me. You could
Speaker 1: even say something like, you know, to be candid with you,
Speaker 1: I've been getting to the finalist stages for a bunch
Speaker 1: of jobs like this, and I'm wondering if there's something
Speaker 1: that I'm inadvertently doing or not doing that might be
Speaker 1: getting in my way. And I'd be so grateful if
Speaker 1: you were willing to take a minute and give me
Speaker 1: any insider or advice that you might have. Do that
Speaker 1: via email, not a phone call, because you don't want
Speaker 1: to put people on the spot. But this is a
Speaker 1: totally okay thing to ask. I have candidates asked me
Speaker 1: this all the time. I don't always give them a
Speaker 1: super useful answer because sometimes there really isn't any answer
Speaker 1: other than you know, you were good, but it was
Speaker 1: really competitive and someone else was stronger. But it's still
Speaker 1: worth asking. And even what I just said, even that
Speaker 1: is sometimes useful to hear, and especially with the jobs
Speaker 1: where they rejected you but are still advertising and so
Speaker 1: they don't seem to have filled it yet in that case,
Speaker 1: like it's it's not just that someone else was better.
Speaker 1: It might be especially interesting if you can get feedback
Speaker 1: from them about those But you know, sometimes it really
Speaker 1: does just come down to something that's out of your control.
Speaker 1: Like during the interview process they realized they really need
Speaker 1: someone with more of a background at X and your
Speaker 1: background is and why. But try asking for feedback. Not
Speaker 1: everyone will give it to you, but some will, and
Speaker 1: it's worth asking. But the fact that you're getting to
Speaker 1: the finalist stage for so many positions, it tells me
Speaker 1: that you're not applying for the wrong types of jobs.
Speaker 1: You've probably just got to keep going and sooner or
Speaker 1: later one of these is going to pan out. I know,
Speaker 1: it's really frustrating. Meanwhile, though, I mean sometimes it's almost
Speaker 1: easier if you can realize, so there is this thing
Speaker 1: but I've been doing wrong, because then you have something
Speaker 1: to fix. But I would say, just hang in there.
Speaker 1: We'll go to our final break here and when we
Speaker 1: come back. We have a question about being sent on
Speaker 1: a business trip but being expected to pay your own expenses. Hey, Allison,
Speaker 1: I work for a very small company that in many
Speaker 1: ways is still in start up mode, with lean budgets
Speaker 1: and very few formalized policies. Every year, a small group
Speaker 1: of employees travel thousands of miles to participate in an
Speaker 1: industry trade show. Last year was my first time going
Speaker 1: on the trip. While there, it became apparent that everyone
Speaker 1: was expected to pay for their own food, to chip
Speaker 1: in for dinner, by their own morning coffee, and so on.
Speaker 1: I was so stunned to discover this that I didn't
Speaker 1: say anything in the moment and just played along and
Speaker 1: paid along. Over the course of the five day trip,
Speaker 1: I probably spent a hundred and fifty to two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars of my own money that I would not have
Speaker 1: spent at home. I never brought it up even after
Speaker 1: the trip was over, and I now regret that. But
Speaker 1: the trade show is around the corner again, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to know how to broach it with my boss.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if she doesn't know that it's standard
Speaker 1: practice to cover expenses, which would be consistent with some
Speaker 1: other things I've observed, or if she thinks the company
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to cover it either way, I would like
Speaker 1: to avoid paying for food again if possible. What's the
Speaker 1: best way to address this? Thanks so much. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: pretty standard to cover meals during business travel. The idea
Speaker 1: is that you shouldn't lose money just because you have
Speaker 1: to travel for work. Work travel shouldn't cost you anything,
Speaker 1: and you're probably not eating out three meals a day
Speaker 1: at home the way you will be when you travel,
Speaker 1: so that is why meals are typically covered. I suspect
Speaker 1: that you're right that this is about this being a
Speaker 1: small company that's still in startup mode, and maybe about
Speaker 1: your boss being inexperienced and unfamiliar with with how companies
Speaker 1: normally handle this sort of thing. So yeah, talk to
Speaker 1: your boss ahead of this next trip. Tell her that
Speaker 1: you had to spend two hundred dollars of your own
Speaker 1: money last time, many that you would not have spent
Speaker 1: if you had stayed at home, And I would say
Speaker 1: something like this before this next trip, could we formalize
Speaker 1: policies about expense reimbursement for travel? Last year, I ended
Speaker 1: up spending about two hundred dollars on meals that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have spent at home. And I know typically these
Speaker 1: sorts of expenses are reimbursed during business trips. Ideally, I
Speaker 1: would love it if we could formalize some arrangements for
Speaker 1: submitting expenses for business travel. But if there's not time
Speaker 1: for that before we leave, can you tell me what
Speaker 1: you'll need for me in order for me to get
Speaker 1: those expenses covered. So the way that you're wording this,
Speaker 1: it's not will you please consider maybe reimbursing this? It's
Speaker 1: this is a standard practice, and what do I need
Speaker 1: to submit to get it handled? But if she pushes
Speaker 1: back and says that you're all expected to pitch in
Speaker 1: for your own expenses or some bs like that, then
Speaker 1: you can say, huh, can I ask for that to
Speaker 1: be reconsidered, because otherwise it's going to cost us all
Speaker 1: money to do business travel, which doesn't seem right, and
Speaker 1: it would be really at odds with how other companies
Speaker 1: handle this. If your boss is unreasonable and you expect
Speaker 1: a fight over this, then before you talk to her,
Speaker 1: I would actually talk with some coworkers so that you
Speaker 1: can approach her about it as a group. That is
Speaker 1: going to make it harder for her to brush you off.
Speaker 1: And really, this is such a normal thing to ask
Speaker 1: for and to expect that you really should be able
Speaker 1: to speak up about it. One caveat, though, I might
Speaker 1: not push for the coffees to be reimbursed if if
Speaker 1: she's resistant to focus on meals, because that's an easier sell.
Speaker 1: Every decent company does cover meals, but some don't cover
Speaker 1: extras like coffee. All right, those are our calls. I
Speaker 1: promised I would talk more at the end of the
Speaker 1: episode about my decision to you and the show, And
Speaker 1: actually I was hoping that a color would have left
Speaker 1: a message about burnout to use in this episode, because
Speaker 1: I figured that would be a great tie in, but
Speaker 1: I didn't have one. Basically, though, this is a case
Speaker 1: of me needing to take my own advice. I have
Speaker 1: been overscheduled and over worked for quite some time now.
Speaker 1: When you work for yourself and you have a lot
Speaker 1: of work coming your way, it's I think it's very
Speaker 1: easy to think, well, I have all these opportunities now
Speaker 1: that who knows how long it's gonna last. It could
Speaker 1: all dry up next year, and so I had better
Speaker 1: take advantage of it now. Any freelancers out there probably
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about, And for years I dealt
Speaker 1: with this by just taking on as much work as
Speaker 1: I could possibly do, which has meant that for a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, I've been working just way too
Speaker 1: much and barely seeing friends or family. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm actually not convinced that is a terrible way to
Speaker 1: go for a short time, but it's not sustainable in
Speaker 1: the long term. And so for a while now, I've
Speaker 1: been trying to figure out how do I make more
Speaker 1: room in my life for things that are not work,
Speaker 1: And I've had a pretty hard time doing it because
Speaker 1: I like my work. I like everything that I'm doing,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to cut something out. I've gotten pretty
Speaker 1: good at saying no to new things, and it's saying
Speaker 1: no to small things, but it hasn't been making enough
Speaker 1: of a difference. And in my capacity as a work
Speaker 1: advice columnist, I have advised other people in this situation
Speaker 1: plenty of times when people came to me with this
Speaker 1: type of problem, I talk about getting really, really clear
Speaker 1: and what is important to you in life, and being
Speaker 1: brutally honest about the trade offs that you're making, and
Speaker 1: that you can't just have wishful thinking and plan to
Speaker 1: do it all. When you do try to do it all,
Speaker 1: something suffers. Maybe it's your work, maybe it's your relationships,
Speaker 1: maybe it's your sleep, maybe it's health. And so I
Speaker 1: have accepted that I need to take that advice myself.
Speaker 1: And so here we are with me wrapping up the
Speaker 1: podcast to get more breathing room back. But I want
Speaker 1: to say I have loved doing the show, and I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful to the amazing people at how Stuff Works
Speaker 1: for making it happen, and to the people who called
Speaker 1: in with questions and let us dissect them, and to
Speaker 1: all of you for listening. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: letting me do this very fun thing with you. I
Speaker 1: will still be answering letters all the time at the
Speaker 1: Aska Manager website, so if you want more ask a
Speaker 1: Manager there will still be plenty there every day at
Speaker 1: ask a Manager dot org. Well that's the show. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening. You can get more ask a Manager
Speaker 1: at ask a Manager dot org or in my book
Speaker 1: Ask a Manager How to Navigate clueless colleagues, lunch stealing bosses,
Speaker 1: and the rest of your life at work. The Aska
Speaker 1: Manager Show is a partnership with I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: is produced by Paul Deckan. If you liked what you heard,
Speaker 1: please take a minute to rate and review a show
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the I Heart Radio app, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, M