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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gun wielding man shoots

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Speaker 1: down his girlfriend's X unarmed X and he's not facing charges.

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Speaker 1: What I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Station and serious

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Speaker 1: x M one eleven. Take a listen to this. I'll

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Speaker 1: go get him. Having three fifteen, you're playing games telling

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Speaker 1: me that I didn't. I'm st that's probably where he

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Speaker 1: is working on. I'm done. I three fifteen. I can

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Speaker 1: even breathe. I don't care if you wanted to see

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Speaker 1: him or not. I can't even breath. You want to

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Speaker 1: see if you see him? Up until three fifteen, you

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Speaker 1: keep trying to keep my son from me. I'm fating

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Speaker 1: to drag you and Anne, Marie and everybody else in

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Speaker 1: the corn. I'm your mom, I'm I believe it right,

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Speaker 1: but I'll take your cane one son. Call nine one one,

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Speaker 1: Call na one, Call one one. You're hearing it as

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Speaker 1: it happens. That would be the first thing I would

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Speaker 1: play to a jury in this case. You hear her

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Speaker 1: words and argument about what time the pickup of the

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Speaker 1: little boy, the boy the dead guy shares with the girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: They're arguing about what time the pickup was supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: Then he says, I'm taking you to court. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna hammer this out in front of judge, a judge,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna subpoena you and your mother. And then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, voices are raised and you hear bam bam,

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Speaker 1: and it's over. A life is gone, and in that moment,

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Speaker 1: three children are left without a father, just like that again,

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, thank you for being with us. You

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Speaker 1: were hearing cell phone video by Jennifer Reid and it

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Speaker 1: was aired on CASEBD eleven and there are no charges.

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Speaker 1: You could shoot down an unarmed man when you've got

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Speaker 1: a long gun in your hand, loaded and locked, and

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Speaker 1: there are no charges with me, an all star panel

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Speaker 1: makes sense of what we know right now. First of all,

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, former Assistant States Attorney joining us, author

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Speaker 1: of constitutional soundbites and creating the Declaration of Independence. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's impressive. David Shastokas is with us. Karen Stark, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us from New York. You can find her

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Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen with a C.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, former police Lieutenant Senior lecturer and director for

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Speaker 1: Center for Advanced Policing at New Haven's Forensic Science Department.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort

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Speaker 1: Worth Lecturer, University Texas and Texas A and M and

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Speaker 1: On faculty at the University of Texas Medical Branch. But

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Speaker 1: first joining US special guest Case Will Banks anchor reporter CASEBD.

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Speaker 1: That's News Channel eleven in Lubbock, Case, what in the world. Look,

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Speaker 1: I love Texas as many people say Texas should be

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Speaker 1: its own country. But I don't get it. This guy

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Speaker 1: guns down his girlfriend's X. Let me get this straight.

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Speaker 1: Who comes for a pickup off his son, The son

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Speaker 1: apparently is not ready or they're arguing about the time

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Speaker 1: of the pickup, and all of a sudden he's gunned down.

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Speaker 1: Is that what happened? Essentially, that is what happened. And

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Speaker 1: you know, these were questions we were asking right off

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Speaker 1: the bat. We knew this was going to be a

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Speaker 1: very unique case in when we would be following. There

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Speaker 1: was actually, within thirty minutes of that shooting, another one

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Speaker 1: in Lobbook with the same circumstances The department described. You know,

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Speaker 1: guys with the Case will Banks joining us in Case

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Speaker 1: b D right there in Loveock. I want you to

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Speaker 1: Case to take a listen to our friend Christy Hart

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Speaker 1: and eleven knees. This moves ahead a few seconds. I

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Speaker 1: have it on video. Kyle, you did it and I

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Speaker 1: hadn't hold you. I told Gord y'all to we came

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Speaker 1: to get hurt. His son's not here. She should have

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Speaker 1: told that. She should have told that Yauld be here.

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Speaker 1: None of y'all should be here. I asked you to leave.

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Speaker 1: I did everything. I didn't not want to do any

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Speaker 1: of this, none on one. Car Ruth's attorney David Gwynn

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Speaker 1: tells CASEYBD, it's clear this is self defense. I believe

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Speaker 1: it confirms that the love of police's thorough work reflects

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Speaker 1: this is a justified homicide. Okay, I want to go

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Speaker 1: back to Case Wilbanks joining us, and remember, everybody on

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Speaker 1: the panel, this ain't no tea party jump in. You're

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Speaker 1: not at High Grove. Case Wilbanks, CASEYBD. Let's go through

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Speaker 1: the video very carefully, very upsetting, guys, because you see

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Speaker 1: someone actually getting shot, shot dead, and it all starts

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Speaker 1: at it seems to be a lovely home and they've

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Speaker 1: got their little porch furniture on the front yard. And

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Speaker 1: you see the victim in this case. You see him

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Speaker 1: Chad Reid, age fifty four. He's got his blue jeans

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Speaker 1: and his tennis shoes. Looks like he's just coming. What

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Speaker 1: day of the week with this case, Wilbanks, This was

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Speaker 1: on a Friday, a Friday afternoon, so we know a

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Speaker 1: children are home from school. He's over there and you

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Speaker 1: see him. He's wagging his finger at his X who

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Speaker 1: was out, the girlfriend of the suspect, Kyle Caruth, age

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Speaker 1: thirty nine. He's wagging his finger and he's telling or

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Speaker 1: given her the business. He's pointing inside. I can imagine

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Speaker 1: he's saying something like, you're supposed to have him ready

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Speaker 1: when I come to pick him up. So here it

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Speaker 1: comes out comes the shooter, Kyle Carruth. And though they're

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Speaker 1: button chess, why why don't men do that? Anyway, they're

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Speaker 1: butting chest and he gets the gun, he's got it

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Speaker 1: up in the air. They struggle and then with the

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Speaker 1: victim at about I would say seven or eight feet unarmed,

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Speaker 1: shoots him. Did I miss anything? Case? That's essentially it.

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Speaker 1: And when that escalates when Chad steps up onto the porch.

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Speaker 1: That's when things get very dangerous, and some of those

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Speaker 1: questions could come into was his self defense and was

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Speaker 1: he on his property now that he was up on

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Speaker 1: the porch, and that sort of thing, and then that's

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Speaker 1: where the whole self defense argument and this castle doctor

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Speaker 1: and it's known comes into play. Hold on, you know

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Speaker 1: what case? You got me drinking on the fire, Hydra.

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Speaker 1: Here you get to me a lot of information at once,

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Speaker 1: more than I can take in. Let me bring in

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Speaker 1: our high profile expert, David Shastokus. Did I get that right?

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Speaker 1: You got that perfect NANCA cases right on this issue

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Speaker 1: a minute, David, here's my question with the castle doctrine,

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Speaker 1: which means you're the king or your castle or the queen,

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Speaker 1: the victim, the dead victim, father of three hat It's

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Speaker 1: not like he's a burglar. It was arranged for him

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Speaker 1: to be there. He was supposed to be in that location.

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Speaker 1: I've studied this case a lot since it happened. There's

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Speaker 1: a big difference and a burglar sticking his foot through

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Speaker 1: your kitchen window and dad on the front porch waiting

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Speaker 1: for his child to come out. He the victim in

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Speaker 1: this case, the dead guy Chad Reid, was where he

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be. Yeah, he was giving his ex

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Speaker 1: the what too about not having the children ready or

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Speaker 1: whatever custody argument they're fighting about. But it's not like

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Speaker 1: he's a trespasser, is it. Well, he becomes he apparently

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Speaker 1: becomes a trespasser when he's done around the court on

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Speaker 1: the porch. Texas castle doctrine is in fact encoded in

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Speaker 1: Texas law, and it's that it's it's fairly strong and

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Speaker 1: typically aqui. You're talking like a lawyer again, David when

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Speaker 1: you say things like encoded in Texas law, that it's

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Speaker 1: been black and why it is in the criminal Code.

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Speaker 1: It's the law by statute, not case law. Okay, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: tell me about it. Yeah, that's correct. It is. It

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Speaker 1: is a law by statute in Texas that allows people

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Speaker 1: to defend defend their home and their property in fact

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Speaker 1: that it includes their vehicle or the place of business.

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Speaker 1: It's it's quite broad, definitely nision of your castle in

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Speaker 1: the in the code it's called habitation. So your car

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Speaker 1: can be your castle under the law. Yes, yes, your

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Speaker 1: car could be your castle under the law. Your place

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Speaker 1: of business can be your castle under the law in

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Speaker 1: Texas and including your home, and home goes beyond that.

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Speaker 1: What one would consider like inside the home would include

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Speaker 1: what would we would define it as a lawyer thing

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Speaker 1: kind of curdle. You know, I was just going to

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Speaker 1: ask you that, because he didn't. He never, the victim

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Speaker 1: never went into the shooter's home. He was in the

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Speaker 1: front yard and then got up on the porch. And

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Speaker 1: the porch is about it looks like maybe five inches

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Speaker 1: off the ground. I mean it's one step. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like he's in the home right like he's in

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Speaker 1: the home, but that's in the within the course of

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Speaker 1: the property. That's within the property, within the habitation, according

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Speaker 1: to Texas law, and where where he apparently made what

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Speaker 1: became his fatal mistake. I'm telling you there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a problem with that. And here's the problem. Curtilage can

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Speaker 1: be the outhouse. It can be the ship in the backyard.

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Speaker 1: It can be the playhouse of the children, it can

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Speaker 1: be the garage, it can be your whole yard. In offense,

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Speaker 1: So where does stand your ground or your castle law?

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Speaker 1: Where does that end? If he's at the edge of

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Speaker 1: the yard, it's in the curtilage. Can you shoot him?

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Speaker 1: Then it's it's pretty well, I don't say about it. See,

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Speaker 1: in terms of used it, we now come to a

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Speaker 1: different issue of whether or not he was entitled to

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Speaker 1: use steadily force. You can protect your castle, but there's

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Speaker 1: still limitations on whether or not you can use deadly force.

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Speaker 1: And that's it when it and certainly typically again you

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Speaker 1: cannot use deadly force just for words. And where where

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Speaker 1: read apparently runs a follow this situation is when he

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Speaker 1: steps hey, hey, well you use shooter and victim, because

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Speaker 1: when when when you say hey, there's two hey is involved.

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Speaker 1: Plus there's the girlfriend who's the mother of the child,

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Speaker 1: she's screaming, somebody's filming it all h E double l's

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Speaker 1: breaking loose. So who is it? Absolutely is when when

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Speaker 1: the guy who ultimately becomes the victim steps up on

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Speaker 1: the porch and then engages in this chest bumping business,

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Speaker 1: it's now escalated beyond mere words. And that's the that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the issue of that. I was facing the

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Speaker 1: Grand Jury time stories with Nancy Grace. I had a question, Karen, start,

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Speaker 1: what's with the chest bumping? What's I mean? Why guys

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Speaker 1: do it all the time? What is that I would

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Speaker 1: no more run up to Jackie here in the studio

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Speaker 1: and do a chess bump with her than the man

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Speaker 1: in the moon. What is that I'd like to see

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Speaker 1: you do a chess thank you. I'll analyze that in

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Speaker 1: fall later. But but if you look at Nancy, even

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Speaker 1: in the honest way in the Adam of Kingdom, if

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Speaker 1: you look at gorillas, they do that all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's it's this aggressive, you know, way of saying, you

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Speaker 1: get her back down because something's gonna happy. And this

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Speaker 1: isn't the friendly chest bump that you see on commercials

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Speaker 1: and at ball games. They they're they're really like that

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Speaker 1: on each other. They can bite each other's nose off.

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Speaker 1: They're that close in anger. And then it all goes

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Speaker 1: to h double L when he pulls that long gun

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Speaker 1: you know, to you Lisa am Daddy go former police lieutenant.

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Speaker 1: Now she's the director of Center for Advanced Policing at

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Speaker 1: University New Haven, a forensic science department. Lisa Daddy, I've

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Speaker 1: said this before. One of my dearest friends is a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, a female defense attorney. She has a specialty dopers.

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Speaker 1: You can sell it on the street. You can sell

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Speaker 1: it on the corner. You can be caught with it.

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Speaker 1: You can be a drug lord. She's nothing but dope.

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Speaker 1: She says, she'd rather try a drug lord or defend

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Speaker 1: a killer as opposed to sticking her hand in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a custody fight. Because those people will come

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Speaker 1: by your house, the lawyer at supper timing, take a

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Speaker 1: shot right through your picture window when you walk by. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they get that crazy about as I would about custody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, try to take the twins away from me.

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Speaker 1: You're looking down the wrong end of a barrel would

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Speaker 1: be the way I would suggest it. But that it

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Speaker 1: makes people crazy, Lisa, how many cases have you seen?

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Speaker 1: This could have been settled with words, they could have argued.

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Speaker 1: But now we've got this father, he's got two other children,

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Speaker 1: he's a father of three. Dad. Yeah, you know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it's it's such a bizarre thing, and unfortunately we see

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Speaker 1: it too often. Um, And to your point, it always

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Speaker 1: stems from these domestic custody like bring children involved and

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Speaker 1: try to keep a child from a parent, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a mom or a dad, Like it goes to a

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Speaker 1: whole certain level where there's no rationalization. A lot of times, Um,

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Speaker 1: and it's that whole protecting of the child, I think.

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Speaker 1: But for me, what is concerning, you know about this

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Speaker 1: case is why does the guy have a rifle? Oh wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: play see I mean you're not going Second Amendment on

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Speaker 1: me because we're not doing that. I'm not. Y'all can

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Speaker 1: fight about it, but we have it's not going away done.

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Speaker 1: I'm all four of the Second Amendment as well. Nancy. However,

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Speaker 1: it's it comes back to your You're having a verbal

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Speaker 1: dispute with somebody on your property, and then it goes

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Speaker 1: from chest you know, chess pumping or whichever, to now

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Speaker 1: a deadly force incident. Now, why bring out a gun?

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Speaker 1: He has the right and the authority to bring out

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Speaker 1: the gun, and the guy is ultimately the victim. Was

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Speaker 1: that was kind of dumb to go toward a guy

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Speaker 1: with a gun too. That doesn't mean he should be dead,

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Speaker 1: but that's there was no doubt a fatal error on

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Speaker 1: his part that the other guy was able to bring

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Speaker 1: out the gun. He didn't break any laws in bringing

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Speaker 1: out the gun. No he didn't, it says front porch,

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Speaker 1: and can have as many guns out there as he wants.

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Speaker 1: Hey case Wilbanks joining us casey b DNI's Channel eleven.

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Speaker 1: There's another another, for lack of a better word, trigger

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Speaker 1: did it. The victim, the dad, the dead dad, Chad

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Speaker 1: Reid say something like I'm gonna kill you. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have a gun. The other guy has a gun, but

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Speaker 1: he said he threatened I'm going to kill you. He

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Speaker 1: actually in the video and you can hear him when

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Speaker 1: he brings out the gun. He's actually says I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take that, something along the lines of I'm going to

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Speaker 1: take that away from you. Of course, curses that him,

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Speaker 1: calls him another name, and then actually reaches for the

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Speaker 1: gun later too, as he said, take it away from him.

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Speaker 1: That's when they spin around and now Kyle Cruth is

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Speaker 1: actually away from his home, facing his home. Chad Reid

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Speaker 1: is still on the porch, and then that's when those

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Speaker 1: shots are fired. I'm looking exactly at the trashcot. Who

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Speaker 1: was videoing this case. It's actually Jennifer Reid. She had

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Speaker 1: just recently gotten married to Chad Reid. She's in a

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Speaker 1: pickup out in the driveway, so to speak, and is

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Speaker 1: videoing it toward the home. So let me ask you

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Speaker 1: this case, will bikes, How does a Texas judge get

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Speaker 1: in the mix. So Kyle Cruth at the time that

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Speaker 1: this shooting was married to the seventies second district judge

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Speaker 1: in Lubbock County. Shelta covers Crosby County and Marie Caruth.

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Speaker 1: So she was appointed by Governor Greg Abbott to that position.

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Speaker 1: A minute, wait a minute, all these names. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we've got a judge in the mixed state court, judge

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Speaker 1: Anne Marie Caruth. She is married to the shooter, William

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Speaker 1: Kyl Caruth. So Kyle Carruth comes running out with a

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Speaker 1: gun along, gun slinging around, pointing at and there's nothing

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Speaker 1: in the constitution it says you can't have a gun

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Speaker 1: on your own front porch. So he's married to a

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Speaker 1: judge and he guns down Chad Read, the dad of three. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell me how why is Chad the victim there to

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Speaker 1: start with? So he was there to pick up his

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Speaker 1: youngest child, was actually looking for his youngest child. He

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Speaker 1: was apparently supposed to have custody of the child at

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Speaker 1: three fifteen. You hear that in the video several times.

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Speaker 1: So actually, in some court documents followed by Jennifer Reid

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Speaker 1: following the shooting as she claims that Christina, Chad's ex wife,

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Speaker 1: had kind of lured him there, said that she wanted

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Speaker 1: to see him there to pick up the child, and

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Speaker 1: then they're arguing over where that child is. She's saying

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Speaker 1: he's not here, and Chad just they're trying to find

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Speaker 1: his youngest, youngest child. Okay, Yeah, you've got the victim,

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Speaker 1: Chad Reid, wife Jennifer Reid, ex wife, Christina Reid, and

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Speaker 1: then you've got the state judge, state court judge who

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Speaker 1: was married to the shooter. Okay, so you've got the wife,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Reid and the ex wife, Christina Reid. Why would

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Speaker 1: she lure him there? So that's another claim that Jennifer

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Speaker 1: makes in court documents that Christina lured him there to

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Speaker 1: what Jennifer claims was to be shot, to be murdered.

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Speaker 1: That's in some of the claims that she makes following

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Speaker 1: the shooting. To doctor Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County,

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Speaker 1: Fort Worth, Doctor Kendall Crowns, how many of the autopsies

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Speaker 1: you perform, how many of them relate to domestic violence?

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Speaker 1: The best violence is actually fairly common. Right off the top,

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Speaker 1: of my head. I couldn't give you a percentage, but

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Speaker 1: I know that it's It's one of the more common

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Speaker 1: reasons why we see people get into the altercations that

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Speaker 1: wind up getting into ending up on a slab in

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Speaker 1: your offer, and then getting murdered. Correct, it's very common, guys,

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Speaker 1: A horrific mom when a gun wielding man guns down

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Speaker 1: his partners, eggs husband after a heated child custody row.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Christy harton eleven knees.

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Speaker 1: This is Christina Reid on the right and Chad Read

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Speaker 1: in green on the left. Jennifer Reid wrote in the

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Speaker 1: document that Christina Reid and Kyle Carruth were having an affair,

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Speaker 1: and according to the filing, Chad Reid was there to

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Speaker 1: pick up his youngest son. Keep trying to keep my

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Speaker 1: son for me. I'm to drag you Andrie and everybody else.

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Speaker 1: This is when Caruth steps outside with a gun. Ye

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Speaker 1: seeing the weapon, Reid appears to tell Caruth he'd better

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Speaker 1: use the gun or read will take it and use

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Speaker 1: it on him chest the chest. The men shout at

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Speaker 1: each other, then Carruth lowers the weapon to fire a

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Speaker 1: shot at the porch by Reid's feet. Read advances on

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Speaker 1: Carruth and the two starts struggling over the weapon. That's

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Speaker 1: when Carruth gets a couple yards away from Read, raises

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Speaker 1: the weapon and fires. We are not showing you the

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Speaker 1: next portion of the video. In it, Read's body is

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Speaker 1: lying motionless on the porch. Case Wilbanks CASEYBD. How many

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Speaker 1: children are in the home at the time Daddy is

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Speaker 1: gunned down dead. Well, actually, that's something that we still

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Speaker 1: don't know because actually that was Kyle Caruth's place of business,

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Speaker 1: apparently Christina's place of business, and the child that Chad

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Speaker 1: was looking for, she says, was not there. And in

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Speaker 1: the video you can hear Chad saying that he has

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Speaker 1: sent police to Christina's mother's home because he believes that's

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Speaker 1: where the child actually is. So we don't believe that

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Speaker 1: actually children are inside at that time. Well, that's good,

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Speaker 1: it's good and bad. It's good because didn't witness Daddy

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Speaker 1: getting gunned down in the front yard. And it's bad

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Speaker 1: in a sense that why would he have been sent

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Speaker 1: to a place of business to pick up a child

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Speaker 1: that wasn't there. It kind of sounds like he was

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Speaker 1: lured there, right, And that's some of the claims that

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Speaker 1: Jennifer makes in in court documents. That's why that she

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Speaker 1: was actually involving Kyle Cruz's business in some of the suits.

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Speaker 1: He's a developer in this area, home construction business, and

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Speaker 1: so that's why she involves those businesses in some of

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Speaker 1: the suits that she met. This structure that looks like

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Speaker 1: a home, what business is there? We believe it's his

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Speaker 1: development business. In some of the court documents, actually Chad

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Speaker 1: Reid's family says that that was owned by Cruse's parents

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Speaker 1: at home and apparently this is where he operates out

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Speaker 1: of developing what homes like home construction. That's the thing.

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Speaker 1: So therefore, key people here. You've got the dad, Dad,

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Speaker 1: who is Chad Reid. You got his wife, Jennifer Reid.

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Speaker 1: You've got his ex wife, Christina read the guy she's

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Speaker 1: dating now, the sheeter Kyle Caruth. So I've got one woman,

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Speaker 1: one odd woman out the state court judge and Marie Caruth.

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Speaker 1: Who's she with? Are they? Are they divorced or divorcing?

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Speaker 1: They have they were in the process at the time

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Speaker 1: of this shooting that finalized on November nineteen. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious when these charges were brought up, was

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Speaker 1: anyone making the charging decisions connected to the state court

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Speaker 1: judge in anyway where Actually, that is why if I,

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Speaker 1: if I made no chargers have been brought right, there

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Speaker 1: were no charges that and that's and that's of course

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Speaker 1: the issue, and one of the important things that I've

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Speaker 1: yet to understand is why the police never arrested this

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Speaker 1: guy in the first place, could think of anything to

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Speaker 1: do with it. It's the judges x that I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, he and the judge were still married

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Speaker 1: at that particular point in time, Okay, and that's no

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Speaker 1: a rat right now, guys, take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut nine. This is Grace Morris k LBK my son,

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Speaker 1: her next husband. I'm recording it. Oh my god. After

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Speaker 1: their initial investigation, LPD did not charge or arrest Kruth

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Speaker 1: Jennifer also releasing on Wednesday a petition to get full

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Speaker 1: custody of Chad's children from their mother, Chad's ex wife,

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Speaker 1: Christina Reid, saying in the Affidavid Christina has quote endangered

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Speaker 1: the physical and mental well being of the children by

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Speaker 1: permitting them to be in the presence of the man

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Speaker 1: who killed their father, but Kyle Gruth's atturn. David Guinn

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Speaker 1: says what Kyle did was done in self defense, saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: all Texans may lawfully brandish a firearm to protect themselves,

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Speaker 1: their property, and their business. Her full study of the

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Speaker 1: video showed Kyle's gun was brandish, but never pointed at read.

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Speaker 1: It was only after mister Reid said I'll take your

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Speaker 1: gun and slinging him across the patio like a scarecrow,

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Speaker 1: then stepped toward him that mister Caruth pointed the gun

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Speaker 1: at mister Reid. I guess it's all a matter of interpretation,

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Speaker 1: which I find best left to a jury. To doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner, Tarrant County fort Worth, What

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Speaker 1: were the injuries precisely and how long did it take

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Speaker 1: Chad Reid to bleed out dead play? His injuries were.

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Speaker 1: He had gunshot wounds of his body and probably would

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Speaker 1: have taken him a matter of minutes to bleed out

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Speaker 1: from the injuries he received. What do you think he

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Speaker 1: would have been aware of lying there in the front

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Speaker 1: yard dying. I mean, as he's slowly bleeding out, he's

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Speaker 1: probably aware of his surrounding. He's just slowly losing consciousness,

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Speaker 1: and everything's kind of going gray black until he passes out.

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Speaker 1: But he's probably aware of all the screaming and the

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Speaker 1: yelling around him, and the fact that he's been shot,

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Speaker 1: and he's probably in pain at that point too. Karen

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Speaker 1: start joining me, renowned psychologists joining the side of Manhattan. Karen,

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Speaker 1: And this is the way death comes. It comes on

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Speaker 1: an afternoon pickup of your son. It comes at the

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Speaker 1: workplace by a guy with a gun. It comes in

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Speaker 1: a mugging or a carjackie you never expect. It comes

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Speaker 1: when you walk in a gas station to pay for

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Speaker 1: your gas and somebody's in there with the gun on

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Speaker 1: the manager. It just it's such a harsh dichotomy because

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Speaker 1: when you look at the video, it seems to be

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Speaker 1: a bright, sunny afternoon. Everything's great, the world is spinning,

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Speaker 1: the birds are singing, and bam, a father of three

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Speaker 1: is dead over what the son being at the wrong location.

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Speaker 1: It's very disturbing. Yeah, Nancy, It's especially disturbing because you're

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Speaker 1: not talking about an accident. You know, it's not a

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Speaker 1: sudden car crash or HIJACKI Anloyd, someone you walk into

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Speaker 1: a restaurant. Here there are two men that are arguing,

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Speaker 1: and it's really hard to understand why this, because especially

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Speaker 1: custody case children involved, nobody is rational. Why didn't it

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Speaker 1: stay an argument between the husband and the wife. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand why the boyfriend who didn't even live with her,

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Speaker 1: is there all of a sudden getting himself involved. Time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace Davids joining us high profile lawyer

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Speaker 1: and author David Is this a legitimate self defense? The

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Speaker 1: question always becomes one of reasonable Nancy, I it does,

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Speaker 1: and usually that has to do with whether or not

425
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 1: you can use deadly force in an altercation with an

426
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: essentially an unarmed individual. And but this has always been

427
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: fairly strange from the beginning, because from the beginning this

428
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: matter in a typical circumstance when somebody is a sad

429
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: we have a dead guy and we have a guy

430
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: with a gun, the guy with the gun gets locked up,

431
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: and that never happened to begin with. So this has

432
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: always been very, very strange from the beginning. And so

433
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: then after the three days of the testimony before the

434
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: grand jury, they the grand jury decided that there was

435
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: going to be a no bill. That is, the they

436
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: would not issue an indatement. And that was also rather

437
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: curious because self defense or even Castle doctrines, or what

438
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: one calls an affirmative defense, that is, the defense has

439
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: to put on evidence of that situation. And now here's

440
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: an easy way to explain it, David Atokas. For instance,

441
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: in insanity that is anne as David just pointed out,

442
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: affirmative defense in that you say, to plead insanity, you

443
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: say I did it, but I was insane, So it's

444
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: a proactive affirmative defense. As in castle doctrine, you say

445
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: I shot, I did it, but it was Castle doctrine.

446
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: In other words, David Stokas, I'm surprised to quote the

447
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: guy with the gun wasn't at least arrested. David, Yeah,

448
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: that's what said. That's what's curious about this whole thing

449
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: from the beginning, Nancy, that he was not arrested from

450
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: the beginning, and you have to believe that his status

451
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: as the husband of a local judge may have had

452
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: some impact on the decision. Guys, um, I want you

453
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: to take a listen to what the defense lawyer for

454
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: the shooter, Kyle Carruth, has to say. These are our

455
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: phrasy K C B D. Listen to the lawyer. Gwinn

456
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: said Reid should have left the scene. Mister Caruth came

457
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: out the door, the gun point in the air, told

458
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: him to leave. Most people would have. Mister Reid then

459
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: chose to advance on mister Caruth. They were taste face.

460
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 1: Mister Reid said he'd take the gun and kill him

461
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: with it. The gun went off into the patio. That

462
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: still didn't determine. Mister Reid then grabbed the gun to

463
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: try to kill Kyle and slung Kyle like a rag

464
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: one hundred eighty degrees to his patio. And you watch

465
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: the video slowly, you see that left knee coming up.

466
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: Kyle's coming at him again. You know, split second reactions twice.

467
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: It's right. According to court filings, Chad's widow, Jennifer, says

468
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: she should be granted custody of the children for their

469
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: well being. She claims the children are currently quote in

470
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: the presence of the man that murdered their father. This

471
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: case is now in the hands of the Texas Attorney

472
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: General's office. No arrests were made after the shooting, and

473
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: no criminal charges have been filed. You know that's not exactly,

474
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: Case Will Banks, anchor and reporter CASEBD at news Channel

475
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: E Love. That's not exactly the way I see the

476
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: video because when I see the shooting, the actual pulling

477
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: the trigger, the shooter is at a distance from the

478
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: dead victim. It's not like he's about to get punched

479
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: in the face. But on the other hand, it's all

480
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: happening so quickly. To dissect it by milliseconds isn't really fair.

481
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: So what was the actual threat as you see the

482
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: video case at the time the trigger is pulled. I

483
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: believe it was because at that point, as the attorney

484
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: describes it, they were slung around, and you see that

485
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: in the video. But now Caruth is away from his

486
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: home and Chad Reid is between his home and him,

487
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: and so he may proceed that as a threat that

488
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: now Chad Reid has the upper hand because maybe he's

489
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: in control of the situation next to his home, but

490
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 1: he still unarmed. Reid is unarmed, correct, it was just

491
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: immediately after he was slung around, he pulls the trigger

492
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: and fire. So what was going through his head at

493
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: that time, I'm not sure, but that's kind of the

494
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: set up there that Caruth is now maybe in defense

495
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: of his home, because Chad Reid may have the upper hands,

496
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: so to speak. Yeah, yeah, his business, Li said Daddio.

497
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: I agree with Davis, just docus in that castle doctrine

498
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: is an affirmative defense, and that's absolutely for eight. I

499
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: would think a finder of fact, like a grand jury,

500
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: to decide their finder's a fact, but not to even

501
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: take the seeter into custody. None of that makes sense

502
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: to me, to be quite honest with you, you know,

503
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: listening to everything, excuse me, and everybody's viewpoints, and given

504
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: the microscope that law enforcement in general is under throughout

505
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: this country, why are we not dotting all our eyes

506
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: and crossing all our teeth? And especially when you know

507
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: the parties in this case are connected to the community,

508
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: you'd want to do everything by the book and leave

509
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: it up to the Trier's a fact, as you pointed out, Nancy,

510
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: you know that's the key to case Will Banks. Does

511
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: the judge, judge Amrie Kreuth, have a child by Kyle Caruth? Yeah,

512
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of, but I don't believe so there

513
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: was never any mention of any child and any divorce

514
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: proceedings or anything like that. I think you're right, guys,

515
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut ten. This is Ryan

516
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: Chandler kay A MC. After nearly three weeks of searching

517
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 1: for answers, Chad Reid's widow tells us she's ready to

518
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: end the speculation and show the public exactly what happened

519
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: when Kyle Caruth fatally shot Chad Reid on November fifth.

520
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: She claims Kyle Caruth should be arrested for murder, yet

521
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: no charges have been filed, while Kyle Caruth's lawyer, David Wynn,

522
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: has also shown us a video from another perspective, saying

523
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: he believes that it supports Kyle's claim of self defense.

524
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: Hold nine one one, Oh my god, hold hold nine

525
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: one one when you look at it very very carefully

526
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: and dissect it by the millisecond. I don't know if

527
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: the police decision not to immediately rest Caruth is going

528
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: to stand. There are new developments raids widows seeking custody

529
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: of the children to Ukse Wilbanks. What is the basis

530
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: for that? Well, she says that she should have custody

531
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: of the children because Christina Reid has them in um,

532
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 1: you know the premises if you will or just with

533
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: Kyle Caruth because they are together, who she calls, you know,

534
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: the murderer of her husband and saying the children shouldn't

535
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: be with him. She also claimed in court documents that

536
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: she should have custody because of Kyle Cruz's mental stage.

537
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: She believes he is not in his right mind and

538
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: she should have custody of the children. That case was

539
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: actually dismissed later on in January of this year, and so,

540
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: through her attorney, Jennifer Reid hopes that blood relatives of

541
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: the children will do something then intervened in the situation. Well,

542
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: the case did go to a special grand jury in

543
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: love At County, Texas. Take a listen to our cut

544
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: thirteen CACBD fast forward. A couple more weeks, Read's mother

545
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: and three children filed another wrongful death lawsuit against Caruth.

546
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: The state assigned a judge from San Antonio to oversee

547
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: those proceedings. Then this past Tuesday, state prosecutors convened a

548
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: special grand jury in Lobott County. They presented the panel

549
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: with testimony from witnesses, evidence that was not publicly released

550
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: Thursday evening. That panel elected to not indict Caruth on

551
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: any criminal charges related to Reed's death. With the criminal

552
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: proceedings out of the way, Karen and under Jennifer Reid's

553
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: attorney promises to pursue the family's civil actions aggressively to

554
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: case Wilbanks case CBD. What was the grand juries thinking?

555
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a secret grand jury, All grand juries

556
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: are secret, But what was the thinking? Well, the Attorney

557
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: General's office says that they were actually, you know, deliberating

558
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: over this case for about three days, presenting the case

559
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: with you know, several eyewitnesses, the family of Chad Reid,

560
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: we know Jennifer Reid testified to the grand jury, and

561
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: then the Attorney General's Office says that there were was

562
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: additional evidence that was not previously released to the public.

563
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: We don't know what that is, of course, but apparently

564
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: they decided that Kyle Cruz had the right to shoot

565
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: Chad Reid and shouldn't be charged with any sort of

566
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: you know, criminal charges, whether that be murder or anything else.

567
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: Who knows how this is ultimately going to shake out.

568
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: Right now, a grand jury has chosen not to indict

569
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: the shooter, but civil lawsuits are piling up. What will

570
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: we learn from the civil lawsuits? Because to you Davidstokas

571
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: and civil lawsuits. Since there's no criminal charges, all the

572
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: parties that are still living can be brought in to testify.

573
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: They can't plead the fifth. What if they say something

574
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: so damning that it has to go back to a

575
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: grand jury, Well they can't. It can go back to

576
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: a grand jury. And to that extent, Kyle Kruth, the

577
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: shooter is in a position to continue to well, I'm

578
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: plead the fifth. Just because this grand jury decided to

579
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: issue a no bill doesn't mean the prosecutors cannot go

580
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: back to another grands right if they have additional evidence.

581
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: And to that extent, Keruth can continue to plead the system.

582
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: And then should he decide to do so so, that

583
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: may have some styming effect on the progress. Yeah, of

584
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: the civil lawsuit. Absolutely, But remember when Simpson O. J.

585
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: Simpson is a great example, submitted to deposition, his criminal

586
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: trial was already over, he had been acquitted, and he

587
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: could not be retried under double jeopardy. And here's the

588
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: catch twenty two. In this case, the shooter has never

589
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: been tried and acquitted. He only made it unscathed through

590
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: a green jury. Social Stokes is absolutely correct. He can

591
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: still plead the fifth, which is the right to remain

592
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: silent under questioning by police. Guys, take a listen to

593
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 1: our cut six KCBD eleven. Reeve's mother and three children

594
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: filed another wrongful death lawsuit against Caruth. The state assigned

595
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: a judge from San Antonio to oversee those proceedings. Then,

596
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: this past Tuesday, state prosecutors convened a special grand jury

597
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: in Lubbock County. They presented the panel with testimony from Wittens,

598
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: evidence that was not publicly released Thursday evening. That panel

599
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: elected to not indict Caruth on any criminal charges related

600
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: to Reds death. With the criminal proceedings out of the way,

601
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Jennifer Read's attorney promises to pursue the family's civil actions aggressively.

602
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 1: It is up for the courts to schedule when those

603
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: proceedings will resume. We wait as justice unfalse. Nancy Grace

604
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: Cormb's story signing off