WEBVTT - The Conclave: What Happens This Week | The Conclave Crew 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.720 What happens this week at the Conclave. 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.840 The ritual, the politics, the players, and the spiritual power. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.200 We'll get into all of it on this edition of 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:17.319 The Conclave Crews. I want to welcome you to this 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:22.639 Arroyo Grande series, The Conclave Crew Vatican Edition, Episode three. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:23.919 This episode is brought to. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:28.479 You by our friends at Taylor fragone Capital Management, Faith, 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.040 Family and Finances. Visit them at Taylor Fragon dot com. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:34.360 Let's convene the crew. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.680 Father Gerald Murray, Canon Lawyer and the Archdiocese of New 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.000 York and Robert Royal, editor in chief of The Catholic 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.080 Thing dot org. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:43.440 And I'm Raymond Arroyo. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.880 Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast on iHeart, Apples, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.480 Spotify and YouTube at Arroyo Grande Show. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.680 And like this episode, we are all about. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.800 To watch a fascinating ritual unfold before our eyes the 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.840 election of the two hundred and sixty seventh Pope. The 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.000 Conclave begins May seventh, and as we've been saying more 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.440 as we said in an earlier episode, all of this 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:11.199 is a collection of traditions and practices that were picked 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.000 up over two thousand years. Some historians claim that Saint 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.680 Peter chose his own successors, a whole string of them, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.760 and that was the pattern for a while. Then Roman 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.200 clergy elected a few popes. Soon emperors got involved, and finally, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:30.119 in ten fifty nine, Pope Nicholas the second issued an 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.160 election decree giving the College of Cardinals. 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:35.000 The power to elect the pope. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.560 Father, tell me why this conclave process is so important? 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.119 And I guess more importantly, why is the world paying 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.480 so much attention to an event to elect a figure 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.240 they barely understand. 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.640 It's important, Raymond, Because, of course, the Pope of the 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.120 Catholic Church, the Roman Pontiff, as he's called, is the 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.640 head of a religion which has a worldwide scope. We 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.320 have what a billion and a quarter members of the 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.680 church throughout the world, and the Pope is viewed by 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.160 many non Catholics as one of the premier spokesmen of 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.080 moral authorities, speaking on behalf of human rights and of 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.360 religious liberty and of the things associated with the higher 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.000 aspirations of humanity. So that's, you know, it's of great 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.280 interest to people. Now. The traditions and the like. Everybody 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:29.519 loves traditions that involve you know, Renaissance palaces, and secret 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:34.400 oaths and people locked in rooms making decisions. But all 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.960 of that has a reason, And of course the election 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.639 of the pope by the cardinals goes back to who 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.240 the cardinals originally were. They were clergy of the Church 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.560 of Rome and the surrounding dioceses. So in fact, in 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.640 the College of Cardinals there are three grades that the 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:54.080 Cardinal Deacons, the cardinal priests, and the cardinal bishops. So 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.720 in time they stopped selecting simply Roman clergy. They started 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.560 naming bishops from important diocese throughout the world. That's why 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.160 we have the international flavor of the College of Cardinals. 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.799 But it truly reflects a I would say, an ingenious 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.600 way of filling the gap in the life of the 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.640 church when the pope dies, because since he's a supreme authority, 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:17.960 who's going to appoint a successor? 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.839 Well, Bob, this is the most incredible thing. I mean, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:26.000 the wisdom of the Church and the collected wisdom in 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.680 the rituals and the patterns and the protocols. It not 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.200 only has meaning, it was put there for a good reason, 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.840 a good human reason that they learned over time. Gregory 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.080 the Tenth in twelve seventy four tried to rein in 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.840 the long election times, because some of these elections were 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.360 running into the years. He was the one who formalized 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:51.120 Gregory the tenth the rules and insisted that cardinals assemble 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.320 ten days after the death of the pope, with no 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.200 private rooms and no outside communication with the key Compkave. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.640 Why is that formality observed today? Why is it important 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.200 to sequester these gardens? 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.440 Well, the most obvious answer is that there are plenty 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.520 of people who would like to influence who will become 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.240 the next pope. Because it's a funny thing about the 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.880 papacy that, on the one hand, we know that Catholicism 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.599 is the central religion of the West, and therefore it 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.520 kind of underpins everything that the West stands for. That's good, 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.840 But on the other hand, the catholteris as much hated 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.880 throughout the world at the same time, so people pay 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.520 attention to who is going to be the leader of 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.920 this As father rightly says, more than a billion people 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.640 all around the globe look to go into any of 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.800 the Renaissance palaces here in Rome. It's one thing, they're beautiful. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.240 We're a room ourselves that have some beautiful artwork, but 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.560 to go into the Cystine Chapel and see paintings by Michaelangelo. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.400 As we were saying the other day, not only the creation, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.000 but the whole history of Old and New Testaments, the 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.280 last judgment against the Wall. Pope John Paul the second 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.600 wrote a poem about how that that painting in the 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.520 sense would point out to the cardinal electors who which 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.160 select his successor. And so we have not only in 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.200 conceptual terms or canonical terms, but even in those kind 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.960 of deep ways that art and spirituality appeal to us, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.120 even in the ways we can't explain somehow that exerts 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:26.400 a power through the papacy. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:28.360 No, it's it's beautiful to behold. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.080 I mean, it's one of the richest events, and it's 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.120 filled with pageantry, it's filled with history, it's filled with art. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.919 And it's unmatchable. Marty Grass can't touch it. 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.760 You know, there's really no celebration in the world that 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.320 comes close to touching its ancient power. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:45.760 And that's rooted in. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.560 The spirit and in the words of Jesus Christ and 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.680 the rock that is Peter, whom they are electing the 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.640 successor to. Now. Earlier this week, all of the staff 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.400 surrounding the conclave, and you think only the cardinals go in, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.440 and if you saw conclave, you probably think it's just 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.200 a couple of nuns and the cardinals. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.400 That's not true. They are bus drivers, they're a. 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.240 Priest hearing confessions by the way of the cardinals, the 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.680 assistant to the comer Lango who's running the entire conclave, 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.279 elevator operators, the hotel staff where they're staying. All of 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:20.000 those people swore an oath of secrecy, and that forbids 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:25.000 any recording device being used here, and it's a threat 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.000 of excommunication if you violate that, if you violate the secrecy, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:30.360 or if you record anything. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:32.880 Father. This secrecy is a big deal. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:38.120 Why it's a big deal because the Catholic Church wants 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.960 the cardinals who act to act solely in the interests 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.320 of the church, and it wants it to be a 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.440 singular act that's conducted and then when the pope is elected, 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.120 it should never appear that the pope got to be 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.280 pope as a result of any kind of backhand dealings 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:01.279 of compromises between cardinals and the like, because yeah, if 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.479 people knew that they could report, then they might take 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.840 great success and say, well, you know the reason he's pope, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.200 I got in the votes, that kind of thing, and 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.320 I'm going to use that, you know, to have moral 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.920 suasion over him for the rest of his pontificate. In addition, 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.800 you know, the Catholic Church treats this as a moment 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.560 of prayer. You know, the cardinals go in there. They 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.560 when they leave the Poline Chapel, which is a chapel 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.720 in the Vatican Palace, they assemble. They process into the 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.240 assisting chapel, chanting the Litany of the Saints. They're asking 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.000 for the help of the saints. And when they get 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.480 into the chapel, they hear a sermon from a cleric, 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.760 they swear an oath to carry out their duties, and 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.000 then they remain silent during the voting. So it's a 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.680 very prayerful moment. So we don't want this to turn 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.920 into a you know, I can't have my tape recorder 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.440 in here, but I'm certainly scribbling all my notes, and 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.800 I'm going to tell everybody what really happened. No, what 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.680 happened is in that room, with the help of the 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:05.640 holies spirit and the intelligent, thoughtful decision making going on 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:06.560 by the cardinals. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:14.680 Well, and right now I'm told British government Secret service 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.360 folks have come in to sweep the entire perimeter and 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.240 the Cistine Chapel. That's who's doing the sweeping here, to 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.760 make sure there are no listening devices or recording devices 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.520 anywhere around. No one's even allowed and I was stunned 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.200 to see this. No one is even allowed among the 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.880 staff to approach the cardinal electors once the conclave begins, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.560 so even when dinner's being served or they're getting on 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.760 and off the bus, they can have no real contact 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:38.080 with them. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.200 Let's go through the movements. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.720 Of this conclave process and what people can expect to see. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:43.440 Father. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.520 As you mentioned, following the Mass in the morning of 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.200 the conclave, the cardinals will process into that Pauline Chapel, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.319 then to the Cistine Chapel, which we will see. We're 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.920 going to see all of this, that procession and each 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:59.079 cardinals swearing their oath in the Sistine Chapel. Then Italian 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.240 Archbishop Diegi will stand at the door and yell la 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:08.120 conte omnes everyone out, and that seals the conclave. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.320 That's the beginning of the Solemn Conclave. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.559 The cardinals now take their places, and the voting begins 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.920 at a secret ballot, just one on that first day. 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.000 One ballot that first day. Why and Bob. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.680 Tell me, tell me about the two thirds majority that's 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.000 needed to win an election. 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.600 Right, Well, look, they're going to have a mass tomorrow, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.400 which is Thursday the seventh, and then they're will process 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.000 in and they'll be sealed in there later in the day. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.360 I think at four o'clock is when they actually are 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.560 going to enter in finally into the Assistine Chapel, and 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.440 there's going to be one ballot. Now, when I think 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.200 about this, I wonder, why not start the day early 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.840 and you get things moving along. But I think maybe 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.760 that's just a kind of a you know, testing the waters. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:56.719 There's going to be one ballot at the end of 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.439 the day, and about seven o'clock in the evening, if 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.760 there's not a two thirds and plus one majority, basically 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.319 that there will the black smoke will come up the 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.280 chimney and then they will get back and be transmitted 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.199 by bus back to the Kasa Santa Marta. And now 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.640 this is another element that you're going to see on 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.440 your TV screens because where the Holy Father, where Pope 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.160 Francis was living the Cossack Santa Market Martha, which is 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.040 called often called a guest house, was deliberately built because 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.880 I believe it was John Paul who decided that the 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.559 cardinals living inside the Sistine Chapel it was just undignified. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.480 It was it was unpracticed, impractical. So they get transferred 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.199 back and forth by buses from one side of the 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.040 Vatican basically to the other. But that two thirds majority 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.920 is there to make sure that there's a relatively large 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.199 majority that are going to agree on who is going 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:52.679 to be the next Pope. You could kind of think 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.200 of it as sort of a filibuster, the way the 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.360 American Senate thinks about it, that large decisions that have 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.320 to be made can't just be made by fIF you 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.200 really want to draw it and so that everybody, no 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.679 one absolutely gets the figure that they want, but they 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.480 there is at least enough consensus that most of the 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.720 major interests are represented. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:11.920 Now. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.040 Father during that vote, as they come forward to vote, 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.720 each man writes the name of his choice for pope, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.160 and the ballot in Latin reads I elect as Supreme Pontiff. 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.320 And then they stand before Michael Angelo's last Judgment and 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.240 they say I call as my witness Christ, the Lord 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.560 who will be my judge, that my vote is given 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.920 to the one who, before God I think should be elected. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.560 And then they drop their ballot and they earn, and 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.920 then the votes are counted. Do you think they have 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.600 a list of potential candidates when they go into the conclave, Father, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:43.840 or at least in their minds. 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.720 Yes. I think each cardinal knows, of course, who they 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.520 want to vote for first, and that's going to be 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.440 done on the first ballot. Now, it's said that often 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.000 cardinals will vote for someone who they know will never 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.560 get elected, but they do it out of esteem. Because 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.080 the way the voting is done is that everyone writes 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.640 the name on the ballot. Then they come up. It's 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.240 by order of seniority. They hold the ballot up in 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.199 their hands so that everyone can see it. Then they 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.360 deposit it into the urn so that everyone can see it, 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.720 because of course, what they want to avoid is someone 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.760 putting it in their pocket and then pulling out three 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.760 ballots with three names, you know, the same name three 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.920 times to kind of like give an advantage to their 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:32.760 like Chicago, Well this is you know, lgbl LJB LBJ 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.679 might not have gotten elected if he was running in 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.800 the College of Cardinals. But leave that aside. What we 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.640 can say is, though they get up, they repeat the 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.080 words that you said, and they place it into the urn. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.520 This is a sacred election. It's this is an election 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.560 in which they're trying to accomplish not simply their own will, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.640 but what they consider to be pleasing to God, that 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.920 in fact they've decided on the best candidate. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.760 A cardinal recently told us that he had five lists, 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.840 you know, a list of five candidates when he went 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.439 into the Conclave last time. And I know there are 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.760 blocks that have formed around a certain candidate or pair 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.960 of candidates. So the question is do they move for 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.400 those candidates in the first vote to show their force, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.320 or do we just see a dribbling of votes toward that. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:18.680 Candidate as this goes on. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.439 Now, for those who saw Conclave the movie, one of 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.760 the things they got right. They didn't get much right, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.360 but one of the things they got right was the 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.079 stringing of the ballots. After the vote is callied by 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:33.040 three scrutiners, then confirmed by three revisors, they actually confirmed 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.800 the vote. Then the vote is read out loud so 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.400 that the cardinals can keep score as they go. Once 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.400 they go through all of the ballots, the ballots are 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.120 strung together and then burned in the oven of the 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.320 Sistine Chapel, and that emits either the black smoke for 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.760 no Pope or white smoke for the man who hit 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.160 two thirds and eighty nine votes in this election. Bob, 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.640 these cardinals, we've been talking about this the whole time. 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.000 They don't know each other. They keep complaining to us 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.439 that they don't know each other. Do you think that 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.480 could portend a long conclave? There are reports of the 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:05.720 Italians or even split. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.920 Yeah, I think that we never know, But I think 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.600 that on the whole, the evidence kind of points to 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.840 the fact that it will be a long conclave relative 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.080 to recent conclicts. And by saying that, we ought to 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.480 say that most recent popes have been elected in the 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.880 first couple of days, So we mean by long is 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.200 going to be a little bit longer than that. I 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.880 mean there are provisions for if it goes even to 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.520 twelve or thirteen days, and then you know, you can 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.720 change the way the things are done. There could be 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.920 pauses along the way, but I don't anticipate that it's 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.720 going to go quite that long. I wouldn't worry the 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.000 way I see some commentators saying that it would give 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.640 the impression that the church doesn't know what it wants 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.200 to do if things go, say three or four days 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.600 or five days. I think that this is an important 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.360 decision where a lot of us recognize that there's a 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.280 kind of turning point, not only in the Church but 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.160 in the world, and a lot of things that are 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.560 happening that weren't around the last time in two thirteen. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.160 So I'm perfectly happy if they take their time. It'll 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.560 be a bit frustrating, but let's hope at the end 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:07.120 you get it right. 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.360 Father. There's only one vote on that first day. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.520 On the second day of conclave, there are two votes 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.440 in the morning, followed by a puff of smoke. Then 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.760 there are two more votes in the afternoon, and another 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.680 puff of smoke around seven o'clock. I have to admit 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.000 I always find it hard. I found it hard since 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.760 you know twenty what it was a two thousand and five. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.040 It was impossible to discern the white from the black smoke. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.960 And the truth is a lot of this conclave has 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.280 already finished, hasn't It isn't the die already cast before 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.240 they walk into the Sistine Chapel due to the meetings 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.960 and the events and the talking they've been having before 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:41.720 the conclave. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.480 Well, I'll answer the smoke question first. Yeah, they use 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.520 chemicals to try and get the white smoke, and sometimes 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.880 I not try. But then if it's the white smoke, certainly, 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.200 shortly thereafter, the Vatican starts ringing the bells of Saint Peter's, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.000 So that's your if there's a question about the smoke, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.640 the bells will cons hermit. Now is everything cast in stone? 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.800 I'll disagree with our host with a smile by saying 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.360 some things are some things aren't. Because, of course, if 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.640 your favorite candidate is not going too well in the voting, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.880 you have to decide what point do I switch and 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.640 who do I switch to? Because you may see because 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.320 each each ballot you hear how many people were voted in. 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.440 You can the count has taken. Each cardinal has a 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.120 scribble pad and they can write notes down. So if 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.160 they see, well, my number three guy is, you know, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.360 nowhere to be seen. My number five guy, amazingly is 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.760 in the second place, so I'm going to switch to him. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.680 So there is some things that happen, and perhaps I'll 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.360 say this with all the cardinals that really don't know 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.840 who the other ones are because they come from the peripheries. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.960 And somebody was saying the other day, for some cardinals, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.680 this is the second time they've been to Rome in 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.200 their life, you know, because they were named and never 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.960 expected to be a cardinal. That in that case, those 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.720 cardinals might say, well, I never had this cardinal in mind, 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.760 but he's getting a lot of votes. Each ballot's going up, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.040 I'm going to vote for him. So no, the die 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.840 isn't cast. And that's one reason why. Of course, as 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.679 Bob says, if it goes long, this indicates that the 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.880 church is trying to figure out the cardinals are trying 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.320 to figure out which man is the best to go for, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.119 even though in the beginnings people didn't really think he 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:23.280 was the one who was going to get it. 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.640 Are you looking for financial management that reflects your deepest values? 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.960 Taylor for Gone Capital Management actively manages portfolios designed for 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.840 those who prioritize faith, family, and long term stewardship throughout 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.840 their mutual fund, separately managed accounts, or family office accounts. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:48.479 Taylor for Gone Capital values driven investing to support your faith, family, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.480 and finances there at Taylorfogne dot com. Bob John Paul 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.040 the second put in place a rule that after three 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.000 days of voting, that would be Friday, there's one day 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.280 day of pause for prayer and conversation on Saturday. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:04.720 Is that a full day? 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.119 I mean, I'm hearing conflicted things. Some have told me 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.199 it may be just the morning session. I don't know. 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.800 I would think that probably the people who are running 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.639 the conclave have to make that determination, and maybe the 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.320 cardinals themselves. I talk with people outside of the Conclave 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.920 and the general congregations and I tell them that I'm exhausted, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.919 and they tell me their fright. And you know, everyone, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.000 this is such an emotional and consequential point in the 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.479 history of the church that I would not be surprised 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.040 if they took the whole day. But look, if they 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.959 just feel like they need to get away out of 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.160 that room and relax for a few minutes, that would 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.560 be okay too. But it's just one day at the maximum, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.080 and they'll be back, I guess on Sunday. 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.439 Yeah, let's discuss some news before we get to what 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.520 happens when a pope is elected, which I'll tell you 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.000 about in a moment. Today, it was reported that Cardinal 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.720 Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras left in a huff ran 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.520 out of the conclave. He was apparently trying to press 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.679 Latin Americans to vote for Cardinal Robert Prevost, someone we 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.200 discussed the other day on our previous episode. He's head 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.240 of the bishop's diecaster. What do you make of that? 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.919 Father? How can we interpret that? 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.119 He apparently is quoted as saying, we've seen too many 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.720 turncoats away from Pope Francis. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:28.240 Well, interesting, now he fled the General Congregation. I guess 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.080 you met rather than the concress. We'll just make that 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:31.639 precision because they haven't gone in yet. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:33.680 He can't vote anyways, tool. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:38.000 Exactly second, he's over eighty. For him to make that 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:42.520 kind of comment indicates that he thinks that the cardinals 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:47.880 owe a duty to fall in line behind Pope Francis's 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.359 vision of the church, to which I say, maybe, maybe not. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.080 You know, there were more than one vision of how 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.639 the church should go. We lived for twenty three years 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.879 with Pope John Paul the Second, another eight years with Benedict. 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.720 You know, in the church, the theological position taken by 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.480 different popes varies, so saying should be the position that 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.760 cardinals take. So I would say that Cardinal Maradiaga's upsetness 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.480 reflects a lack of understanding of what's going on here. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.480 This is not a political campaign in which you say, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.560 you know, hey, if you're from Kansas, you got to 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.120 vote from all the guys from Kansas. No, this is 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.640 the Catholic Church, and you're you're not representing your region 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:35.080 in the profoundest sense. You're serving God in a role 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.200 of great importance, representing the entire church in a certain way. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.280 So I would say that's what's going on here. 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:42.080 Bob. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.680 What do you make of Cardinal Walter Casper, who's quoted 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.560 as saying, I'm convinced we will continue along the Brigolio line. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.760 I have spoken to many cardinals, and the church cannot 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.680 allow itself to backtrack your reaction. 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.520 Well, sure, the church can allow itself to backtrack if 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.359 it finds it it's gone off on a tangent and 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.280 it needs to be where the church needs to be. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.280 I'm kind of puzzled. I don't know that I trust 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:12.160 this report entirely about Cardinal Maradiaga. I don't trust Cardinal 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.480