1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,720
Speaker 1: What happens this week at the Conclave.

2
00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,840
Speaker 2: The ritual, the politics, the players, and the spiritual power.

3
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 2: We'll get into all of it on this edition of

4
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:17,319
Speaker 2: The Conclave Crews. I want to welcome you to this

5
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 2: Arroyo Grande series, The Conclave Crew Vatican Edition, Episode three.

6
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to.

7
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,479
Speaker 2: You by our friends at Taylor fragone Capital Management, Faith,

8
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 2: Family and Finances. Visit them at Taylor Fragon dot com.

9
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,360
Speaker 1: Let's convene the crew.

10
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 2: Father Gerald Murray, Canon Lawyer and the Archdiocese of New

11
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,000
Speaker 2: York and Robert Royal, editor in chief of The Catholic

12
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 2: Thing dot org.

13
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: And I'm Raymond Arroyo.

14
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,880
Speaker 2: Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast on iHeart, Apples,

15
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 2: Spotify and YouTube at Arroyo Grande Show.

16
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 1: And like this episode, we are all about.

17
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 2: To watch a fascinating ritual unfold before our eyes the

18
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,840
Speaker 2: election of the two hundred and sixty seventh Pope. The

19
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 2: Conclave begins May seventh, and as we've been saying more

20
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 2: as we said in an earlier episode, all of this

21
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,199
Speaker 2: is a collection of traditions and practices that were picked

22
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 2: up over two thousand years. Some historians claim that Saint

23
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,680
Speaker 2: Peter chose his own successors, a whole string of them,

24
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 2: and that was the pattern for a while. Then Roman

25
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 2: clergy elected a few popes. Soon emperors got involved, and finally,

26
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 2: in ten fifty nine, Pope Nicholas the second issued an

27
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 2: election decree giving the College of Cardinals.

28
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: The power to elect the pope.

29
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 2: Father, tell me why this conclave process is so important?

30
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,119
Speaker 2: And I guess more importantly, why is the world paying

31
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 2: so much attention to an event to elect a figure

32
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 2: they barely understand.

33
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 3: It's important, Raymond, Because, of course, the Pope of the

34
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 3: Catholic Church, the Roman Pontiff, as he's called, is the

35
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 3: head of a religion which has a worldwide scope. We

36
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 3: have what a billion and a quarter members of the

37
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 3: church throughout the world, and the Pope is viewed by

38
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 3: many non Catholics as one of the premier spokesmen of

39
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,080
Speaker 3: moral authorities, speaking on behalf of human rights and of

40
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 3: religious liberty and of the things associated with the higher

41
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 3: aspirations of humanity. So that's, you know, it's of great

42
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,280
Speaker 3: interest to people. Now. The traditions and the like. Everybody

43
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,519
Speaker 3: loves traditions that involve you know, Renaissance palaces, and secret

44
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 3: oaths and people locked in rooms making decisions. But all

45
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 3: of that has a reason, And of course the election

46
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,639
Speaker 3: of the pope by the cardinals goes back to who

47
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 3: the cardinals originally were. They were clergy of the Church

48
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,560
Speaker 3: of Rome and the surrounding dioceses. So in fact, in

49
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 3: the College of Cardinals there are three grades that the

50
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 3: Cardinal Deacons, the cardinal priests, and the cardinal bishops. So

51
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 3: in time they stopped selecting simply Roman clergy. They started

52
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 3: naming bishops from important diocese throughout the world. That's why

53
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 3: we have the international flavor of the College of Cardinals.

54
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,799
Speaker 3: But it truly reflects a I would say, an ingenious

55
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 3: way of filling the gap in the life of the

56
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 3: church when the pope dies, because since he's a supreme authority,

57
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,960
Speaker 3: who's going to appoint a successor?

58
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,839
Speaker 2: Well, Bob, this is the most incredible thing. I mean,

59
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 2: the wisdom of the Church and the collected wisdom in

60
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: the rituals and the patterns and the protocols. It not

61
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 2: only has meaning, it was put there for a good reason,

62
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 2: a good human reason that they learned over time. Gregory

63
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,080
Speaker 2: the Tenth in twelve seventy four tried to rein in

64
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 2: the long election times, because some of these elections were

65
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,360
Speaker 2: running into the years. He was the one who formalized

66
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 2: Gregory the tenth the rules and insisted that cardinals assemble

67
00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 2: ten days after the death of the pope, with no

68
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 2: private rooms and no outside communication with the key Compkave.

69
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,640
Speaker 2: Why is that formality observed today? Why is it important

70
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 2: to sequester these gardens?

71
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 4: Well, the most obvious answer is that there are plenty

72
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,520
Speaker 4: of people who would like to influence who will become

73
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,240
Speaker 4: the next pope. Because it's a funny thing about the

74
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 4: papacy that, on the one hand, we know that Catholicism

75
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,599
Speaker 4: is the central religion of the West, and therefore it

76
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 4: kind of underpins everything that the West stands for. That's good,

77
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,840
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, the catholteris as much hated

78
00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 4: throughout the world at the same time, so people pay

79
00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 4: attention to who is going to be the leader of

80
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 4: this As father rightly says, more than a billion people

81
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 4: all around the globe look to go into any of

82
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,800
Speaker 4: the Renaissance palaces here in Rome. It's one thing, they're beautiful.

83
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 4: We're a room ourselves that have some beautiful artwork, but

84
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 4: to go into the Cystine Chapel and see paintings by Michaelangelo.

85
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 4: As we were saying the other day, not only the creation,

86
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 4: but the whole history of Old and New Testaments, the

87
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,280
Speaker 4: last judgment against the Wall. Pope John Paul the second

88
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,600
Speaker 4: wrote a poem about how that that painting in the

89
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 4: sense would point out to the cardinal electors who which

90
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 4: select his successor. And so we have not only in

91
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 4: conceptual terms or canonical terms, but even in those kind

92
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 4: of deep ways that art and spirituality appeal to us,

93
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 4: even in the ways we can't explain somehow that exerts

94
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 4: a power through the papacy.

95
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: No, it's it's beautiful to behold.

96
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of the richest events, and it's

97
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 2: filled with pageantry, it's filled with history, it's filled with art.

98
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,919
Speaker 1: And it's unmatchable. Marty Grass can't touch it.

99
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,760
Speaker 2: You know, there's really no celebration in the world that

100
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 2: comes close to touching its ancient power.

101
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 1: And that's rooted in.

102
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 2: The spirit and in the words of Jesus Christ and

103
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,680
Speaker 2: the rock that is Peter, whom they are electing the

104
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 2: successor to. Now. Earlier this week, all of the staff

105
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 2: surrounding the conclave, and you think only the cardinals go in,

106
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 2: and if you saw conclave, you probably think it's just

107
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 2: a couple of nuns and the cardinals.

108
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 1: That's not true. They are bus drivers, they're a.

109
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 2: Priest hearing confessions by the way of the cardinals, the

110
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 2: assistant to the comer Lango who's running the entire conclave,

111
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,279
Speaker 2: elevator operators, the hotel staff where they're staying. All of

112
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 2: those people swore an oath of secrecy, and that forbids

113
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:25,000
Speaker 2: any recording device being used here, and it's a threat

114
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 2: of excommunication if you violate that, if you violate the secrecy,

115
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 2: or if you record anything.

116
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,880
Speaker 1: Father. This secrecy is a big deal.

117
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 3: Why it's a big deal because the Catholic Church wants

118
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 3: the cardinals who act to act solely in the interests

119
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 3: of the church, and it wants it to be a

120
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 3: singular act that's conducted and then when the pope is elected,

121
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,120
Speaker 3: it should never appear that the pope got to be

122
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,280
Speaker 3: pope as a result of any kind of backhand dealings

123
00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 3: of compromises between cardinals and the like, because yeah, if

124
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,479
Speaker 3: people knew that they could report, then they might take

125
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,840
Speaker 3: great success and say, well, you know the reason he's pope,

126
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 3: I got in the votes, that kind of thing, and

127
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to use that, you know, to have moral

128
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 3: suasion over him for the rest of his pontificate. In addition,

129
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 3: you know, the Catholic Church treats this as a moment

130
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 3: of prayer. You know, the cardinals go in there. They

131
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 3: when they leave the Poline Chapel, which is a chapel

132
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,720
Speaker 3: in the Vatican Palace, they assemble. They process into the

133
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 3: assisting chapel, chanting the Litany of the Saints. They're asking

134
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 3: for the help of the saints. And when they get

135
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 3: into the chapel, they hear a sermon from a cleric,

136
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,760
Speaker 3: they swear an oath to carry out their duties, and

137
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 3: then they remain silent during the voting. So it's a

138
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 3: very prayerful moment. So we don't want this to turn

139
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 3: into a you know, I can't have my tape recorder

140
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 3: in here, but I'm certainly scribbling all my notes, and

141
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell everybody what really happened. No, what

142
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 3: happened is in that room, with the help of the

143
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 3: holies spirit and the intelligent, thoughtful decision making going on

144
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 3: by the cardinals.

145
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 2: Well, and right now I'm told British government Secret service

146
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 2: folks have come in to sweep the entire perimeter and

147
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 2: the Cistine Chapel. That's who's doing the sweeping here, to

148
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 2: make sure there are no listening devices or recording devices

149
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 2: anywhere around. No one's even allowed and I was stunned

150
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 2: to see this. No one is even allowed among the

151
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 2: staff to approach the cardinal electors once the conclave begins,

152
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,560
Speaker 2: so even when dinner's being served or they're getting on

153
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 2: and off the bus, they can have no real contact

154
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 2: with them.

155
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 1: Let's go through the movements.

156
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,720
Speaker 2: Of this conclave process and what people can expect to see.

157
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:43,440
Speaker 1: Father.

158
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, following the Mass in the morning of

159
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,200
Speaker 2: the conclave, the cardinals will process into that Pauline Chapel,

160
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 2: then to the Cistine Chapel, which we will see. We're

161
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 2: going to see all of this, that procession and each

162
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:59,079
Speaker 2: cardinals swearing their oath in the Sistine Chapel. Then Italian

163
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 2: Archbishop Diegi will stand at the door and yell la

164
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,120
Speaker 2: conte omnes everyone out, and that seals the conclave.

165
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: That's the beginning of the Solemn Conclave.

166
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 2: The cardinals now take their places, and the voting begins

167
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 2: at a secret ballot, just one on that first day.

168
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: One ballot that first day. Why and Bob.

169
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,680
Speaker 2: Tell me, tell me about the two thirds majority that's

170
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 2: needed to win an election.

171
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,600
Speaker 4: Right, Well, look, they're going to have a mass tomorrow,

172
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 4: which is Thursday the seventh, and then they're will process

173
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,000
Speaker 4: in and they'll be sealed in there later in the day.

174
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 4: I think at four o'clock is when they actually are

175
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 4: going to enter in finally into the Assistine Chapel, and

176
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 4: there's going to be one ballot. Now, when I think

177
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 4: about this, I wonder, why not start the day early

178
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 4: and you get things moving along. But I think maybe

179
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 4: that's just a kind of a you know, testing the waters.

180
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,719
Speaker 4: There's going to be one ballot at the end of

181
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 4: the day, and about seven o'clock in the evening, if

182
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 4: there's not a two thirds and plus one majority, basically

183
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,319
Speaker 4: that there will the black smoke will come up the

184
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 4: chimney and then they will get back and be transmitted

185
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 4: by bus back to the Kasa Santa Marta. And now

186
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 4: this is another element that you're going to see on

187
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,440
Speaker 4: your TV screens because where the Holy Father, where Pope

188
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 4: Francis was living the Cossack Santa Market Martha, which is

189
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 4: called often called a guest house, was deliberately built because

190
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 4: I believe it was John Paul who decided that the

191
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,559
Speaker 4: cardinals living inside the Sistine Chapel it was just undignified.

192
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 4: It was it was unpracticed, impractical. So they get transferred

193
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,199
Speaker 4: back and forth by buses from one side of the

194
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 4: Vatican basically to the other. But that two thirds majority

195
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,920
Speaker 4: is there to make sure that there's a relatively large

196
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 4: majority that are going to agree on who is going

197
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,679
Speaker 4: to be the next Pope. You could kind of think

198
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 4: of it as sort of a filibuster, the way the

199
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 4: American Senate thinks about it, that large decisions that have

200
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,320
Speaker 4: to be made can't just be made by fIF you

201
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 4: really want to draw it and so that everybody, no

202
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,679
Speaker 4: one absolutely gets the figure that they want, but they

203
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 4: there is at least enough consensus that most of the

204
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 4: major interests are represented.

205
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 3: Now.

206
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 2: Father during that vote, as they come forward to vote,

207
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,720
Speaker 2: each man writes the name of his choice for pope,

208
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 2: and the ballot in Latin reads I elect as Supreme Pontiff.

209
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 2: And then they stand before Michael Angelo's last Judgment and

210
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,240
Speaker 2: they say I call as my witness Christ, the Lord

211
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,560
Speaker 2: who will be my judge, that my vote is given

212
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,920
Speaker 2: to the one who, before God I think should be elected.

213
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 2: And then they drop their ballot and they earn, and

214
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 2: then the votes are counted. Do you think they have

215
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 2: a list of potential candidates when they go into the conclave, Father,

216
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:43,840
Speaker 2: or at least in their minds.

217
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 3: Yes. I think each cardinal knows, of course, who they

218
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 3: want to vote for first, and that's going to be

219
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 3: done on the first ballot. Now, it's said that often

220
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 3: cardinals will vote for someone who they know will never

221
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,560
Speaker 3: get elected, but they do it out of esteem. Because

222
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 3: the way the voting is done is that everyone writes

223
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 3: the name on the ballot. Then they come up. It's

224
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 3: by order of seniority. They hold the ballot up in

225
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,199
Speaker 3: their hands so that everyone can see it. Then they

226
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 3: deposit it into the urn so that everyone can see it,

227
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 3: because of course, what they want to avoid is someone

228
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 3: putting it in their pocket and then pulling out three

229
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,760
Speaker 3: ballots with three names, you know, the same name three

230
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 3: times to kind of like give an advantage to their

231
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 3: like Chicago, Well this is you know, lgbl LJB LBJ

232
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,679
Speaker 3: might not have gotten elected if he was running in

233
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 3: the College of Cardinals. But leave that aside. What we

234
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 3: can say is, though they get up, they repeat the

235
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 3: words that you said, and they place it into the urn.

236
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,520
Speaker 3: This is a sacred election. It's this is an election

237
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,560
Speaker 3: in which they're trying to accomplish not simply their own will,

238
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 3: but what they consider to be pleasing to God, that

239
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,920
Speaker 3: in fact they've decided on the best candidate.

240
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 2: A cardinal recently told us that he had five lists,

241
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,840
Speaker 2: you know, a list of five candidates when he went

242
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,439
Speaker 2: into the Conclave last time. And I know there are

243
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 2: blocks that have formed around a certain candidate or pair

244
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,960
Speaker 2: of candidates. So the question is do they move for

245
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 2: those candidates in the first vote to show their force,

246
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,320
Speaker 2: or do we just see a dribbling of votes toward that.

247
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:18,680
Speaker 1: Candidate as this goes on.

248
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,439
Speaker 2: Now, for those who saw Conclave the movie, one of

249
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 2: the things they got right. They didn't get much right,

250
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 2: but one of the things they got right was the

251
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,079
Speaker 2: stringing of the ballots. After the vote is callied by

252
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 2: three scrutiners, then confirmed by three revisors, they actually confirmed

253
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 2: the vote. Then the vote is read out loud so

254
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 2: that the cardinals can keep score as they go. Once

255
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: they go through all of the ballots, the ballots are

256
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 2: strung together and then burned in the oven of the

257
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 2: Sistine Chapel, and that emits either the black smoke for

258
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 2: no Pope or white smoke for the man who hit

259
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 2: two thirds and eighty nine votes in this election. Bob,

260
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 2: these cardinals, we've been talking about this the whole time.

261
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 2: They don't know each other. They keep complaining to us

262
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,439
Speaker 2: that they don't know each other. Do you think that

263
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 2: could portend a long conclave? There are reports of the

264
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 2: Italians or even split.

265
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that we never know, But I think

266
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 4: that on the whole, the evidence kind of points to

267
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 4: the fact that it will be a long conclave relative

268
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 4: to recent conclicts. And by saying that, we ought to

269
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 4: say that most recent popes have been elected in the

270
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 4: first couple of days, So we mean by long is

271
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 4: going to be a little bit longer than that. I

272
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 4: mean there are provisions for if it goes even to

273
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 4: twelve or thirteen days, and then you know, you can

274
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 4: change the way the things are done. There could be

275
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 4: pauses along the way, but I don't anticipate that it's

276
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 4: going to go quite that long. I wouldn't worry the

277
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 4: way I see some commentators saying that it would give

278
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 4: the impression that the church doesn't know what it wants

279
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 4: to do if things go, say three or four days

280
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 4: or five days. I think that this is an important

281
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 4: decision where a lot of us recognize that there's a

282
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 4: kind of turning point, not only in the Church but

283
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 4: in the world, and a lot of things that are

284
00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 4: happening that weren't around the last time in two thirteen.

285
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 4: So I'm perfectly happy if they take their time. It'll

286
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 4: be a bit frustrating, but let's hope at the end

287
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 4: you get it right.

288
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: Father. There's only one vote on that first day.

289
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 2: On the second day of conclave, there are two votes

290
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: in the morning, followed by a puff of smoke. Then

291
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 2: there are two more votes in the afternoon, and another

292
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 2: puff of smoke around seven o'clock. I have to admit

293
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 2: I always find it hard. I found it hard since

294
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 2: you know twenty what it was a two thousand and five.

295
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 2: It was impossible to discern the white from the black smoke.

296
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 2: And the truth is a lot of this conclave has

297
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 2: already finished, hasn't It isn't the die already cast before

298
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 2: they walk into the Sistine Chapel due to the meetings

299
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 2: and the events and the talking they've been having before

300
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 2: the conclave.

301
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 3: Well, I'll answer the smoke question first. Yeah, they use

302
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 3: chemicals to try and get the white smoke, and sometimes

303
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 3: I not try. But then if it's the white smoke, certainly,

304
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 3: shortly thereafter, the Vatican starts ringing the bells of Saint Peter's,

305
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 3: So that's your if there's a question about the smoke,

306
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 3: the bells will cons hermit. Now is everything cast in stone?

307
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 3: I'll disagree with our host with a smile by saying

308
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 3: some things are some things aren't. Because, of course, if

309
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 3: your favorite candidate is not going too well in the voting,

310
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 3: you have to decide what point do I switch and

311
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 3: who do I switch to? Because you may see because

312
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 3: each each ballot you hear how many people were voted in.

313
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 3: You can the count has taken. Each cardinal has a

314
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 3: scribble pad and they can write notes down. So if

315
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 3: they see, well, my number three guy is, you know,

316
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 3: nowhere to be seen. My number five guy, amazingly is

317
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 3: in the second place, so I'm going to switch to him.

318
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 3: So there is some things that happen, and perhaps I'll

319
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 3: say this with all the cardinals that really don't know

320
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 3: who the other ones are because they come from the peripheries.

321
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 3: And somebody was saying the other day, for some cardinals,

322
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 3: this is the second time they've been to Rome in

323
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 3: their life, you know, because they were named and never

324
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,960
Speaker 3: expected to be a cardinal. That in that case, those

325
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 3: cardinals might say, well, I never had this cardinal in mind,

326
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 3: but he's getting a lot of votes. Each ballot's going up,

327
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 3: I'm going to vote for him. So no, the die

328
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 3: isn't cast. And that's one reason why. Of course, as

329
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,679
Speaker 3: Bob says, if it goes long, this indicates that the

330
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 3: church is trying to figure out the cardinals are trying

331
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 3: to figure out which man is the best to go for,

332
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,119
Speaker 3: even though in the beginnings people didn't really think he

333
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 3: was the one who was going to get it.

334
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,640
Speaker 2: Are you looking for financial management that reflects your deepest values?

335
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 2: Taylor for Gone Capital Management actively manages portfolios designed for

336
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 2: those who prioritize faith, family, and long term stewardship throughout

337
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 2: their mutual fund, separately managed accounts, or family office accounts.

338
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,479
Speaker 2: Taylor for Gone Capital values driven investing to support your faith, family,

339
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 2: and finances there at Taylorfogne dot com. Bob John Paul

340
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 2: the second put in place a rule that after three

341
00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 2: days of voting, that would be Friday, there's one day

342
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 2: day of pause for prayer and conversation on Saturday.

343
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 1: Is that a full day?

344
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,119
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm hearing conflicted things. Some have told me

345
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 2: it may be just the morning session. I don't know.

346
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 4: I would think that probably the people who are running

347
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 4: the conclave have to make that determination, and maybe the

348
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 4: cardinals themselves. I talk with people outside of the Conclave

349
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 4: and the general congregations and I tell them that I'm exhausted,

350
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,919
Speaker 4: and they tell me their fright. And you know, everyone,

351
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 4: this is such an emotional and consequential point in the

352
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,479
Speaker 4: history of the church that I would not be surprised

353
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 4: if they took the whole day. But look, if they

354
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,959
Speaker 4: just feel like they need to get away out of

355
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,160
Speaker 4: that room and relax for a few minutes, that would

356
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 4: be okay too. But it's just one day at the maximum,

357
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 4: and they'll be back, I guess on Sunday.

358
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's discuss some news before we get to what

359
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 2: happens when a pope is elected, which I'll tell you

360
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 2: about in a moment. Today, it was reported that Cardinal

361
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 2: Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras left in a huff ran

362
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 2: out of the conclave. He was apparently trying to press

363
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 2: Latin Americans to vote for Cardinal Robert Prevost, someone we

364
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 2: discussed the other day on our previous episode. He's head

365
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: of the bishop's diecaster. What do you make of that?

366
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 1: Father? How can we interpret that?

367
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 2: He apparently is quoted as saying, we've seen too many

368
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 2: turncoats away from Pope Francis.

369
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,240
Speaker 3: Well, interesting, now he fled the General Congregation. I guess

370
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 3: you met rather than the concress. We'll just make that

371
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 3: precision because they haven't gone in yet.

372
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 1: He can't vote anyways, tool.

373
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 3: Exactly second, he's over eighty. For him to make that

374
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 3: kind of comment indicates that he thinks that the cardinals

375
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 3: owe a duty to fall in line behind Pope Francis's

376
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 3: vision of the church, to which I say, maybe, maybe not.

377
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: You know, there were more than one vision of how

378
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 3: the church should go. We lived for twenty three years

379
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 3: with Pope John Paul the Second, another eight years with Benedict.

380
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 3: You know, in the church, the theological position taken by

381
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 3: different popes varies, so saying should be the position that

382
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 3: cardinals take. So I would say that Cardinal Maradiaga's upsetness

383
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 3: reflects a lack of understanding of what's going on here.

384
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 3: This is not a political campaign in which you say,

385
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 3: you know, hey, if you're from Kansas, you got to

386
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 3: vote from all the guys from Kansas. No, this is

387
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church, and you're you're not representing your region

388
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 3: in the profoundest sense. You're serving God in a role

389
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 3: of great importance, representing the entire church in a certain way.

390
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 3: So I would say that's what's going on here.

391
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: Bob.

392
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: What do you make of Cardinal Walter Casper, who's quoted

393
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 2: as saying, I'm convinced we will continue along the Brigolio line.

394
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: I have spoken to many cardinals, and the church cannot

395
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 2: allow itself to backtrack your reaction.

396
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 4: Well, sure, the church can allow itself to backtrack if

397
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 4: it finds it it's gone off on a tangent and

398
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 4: it needs to be where the church needs to be.

399
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 4: I'm kind of puzzled. I don't know that I trust

400
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 4: this report entirely about Cardinal Maradiaga. I don't trust Cardinal

401
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 4: Maradiaga entirely either. And it's interesting to think what did

402
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 4: he do. Did he really pull all of the cardinals

403
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 4: from Latin America or did he just get a strong

404
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 4: reaction from.

405
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 3: Some of them.

406
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 4: Is it only about Provost? Is it also about others

407
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 4: who we perceive to be in the in the so

408
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 4: called in the line of Pope Francis, Because, as Father

409
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 4: rightly says, this is not Democrats and Republicans where everybody

410
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 4: is sort of whipped into place by the leaders of

411
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 4: the party. You know, we talked, for example, about Cardinal

412
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 4: Arborellius of Sweet the other day, who seems to be

413
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 4: a very orthodox, prayerful man, but he's also pro immigration,

414
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 4: which seems to divide him between two different parts of

415
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 4: the Francis legacy. So you can't expect there to be

416
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 4: kind of party plane. And the fact that somebody would

417
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 4: claim that there are too many turncoats, I mean, I mean,

418
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 4: what is this? You know, are they going to be

419
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 4: executed because they they've been unfaithful to their vow?

420
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: Don't give them any ideas, Bob, but.

421
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 4: Just some all of this up. I think it's a

422
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 4: much more Fathers right, It's a much more complicated thing

423
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 4: where a cardinal who's an authentic person trying to discern

424
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 4: what's right for the church is going to have multiple

425
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,719
Speaker 4: considerations and it's not going to be am I going

426
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 4: to follow this full line or that full line. This

427
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 4: is a new moment. Some things will stay the same,

428
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 4: and we will also be turning the page on other things.

429
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: Father, and then Bob, I want to want you to

430
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: comment on this new report of Cardinal Togley. The report

431
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 2: is that he has a gambling problem and apparently gambling debt.

432
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: I'm always I'm always a little dubious about these stories

433
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: because they pop up in the eleventh hour, right before

434
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: the conflict.

435
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: But Father, your reaction, and then I'll go to Bob.

436
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, reading that notice in the the New Compass, Richard

437
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 3: Kasholi is a serious man. He's the editor of a

438
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 3: very important website, the Comments on the Catholic Church here

439
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 3: in Italy and beyond. Uh. He publishes it. He's got evidence,

440
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: he's got you know, backed up. It's not just one person.

441
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 3: So if it's the case that Cardinal Togli has a

442
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 3: gambling debt, you know that's a serious concern because you

443
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 3: know who's the debt to who's the holder of the debt?

444
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: How is that going to be cleared? H What does

445
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: that imply for the fact that he might be influenced

446
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 3: by people with whom he's been dealing. You know, the

447
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 3: gambling debt is supposed to be in Far East and Macau,

448
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 3: which is under the communist Chinese control. So it's it's

449
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: it's a serious report and I think now is the

450
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: right time for Cardinal Tagli to come beforeward and either

451
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: deny or explain what this whether this report is accurate.

452
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, the last minute politicking is amazing. I mean,

453
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: there was a group of.

454
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: Alleged young people who issued an open letter pleading for

455
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: a more inclusive church, a more welcoming church, a continuation

456
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: of Francis's thrust, and of course it was created by

457
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: and packaged by Pox Christie, which is a left of

458
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: center Catholic group. Tell me the impact of that, if any,

459
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: And what do you think of the Toaglay report.

460
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 4: Well, I mean all these reports tend to have a

461
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 4: big impact on people who wanted to have a big impact.

462
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 4: I mean it's notorious here in Italy that cardinals have

463
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 4: the channels that they leak to their favorite journalists, they

464
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 4: put ideas out. I mean, just a few days ago

465
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 4: we heard, for example, about Cardinal Paroline's apparent panic attack

466
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: or blood pressure crisis, and some of the Italian papers

467
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: that I was reading said this was put out from

468
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: Anglo Saxon sources, and so they were trying. You know,

469
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 4: I would not pay too too much attention this Togglass story, though,

470
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I think we've all heard about this from

471
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 4: credible sources, and I knew at least one source that

472
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 4: did not publish it because they couldn't confirm it yet.

473
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: I know Richard Carshole quite well. I respect him very

474
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 4: much as a journalist. And the fact that they came

475
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 4: forward and said that there were five sources that they

476
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 4: had to confirm this, and oh, we're hearing several hundred

477
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 4: thousand dollars of his Communist Chinese is not a good

478
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 4: foot forward for someone about to become pope. But we'll

479
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 4: see it. I suppose.

480
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: Back to the process of the conclave, which I did

481
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: promise when we started. Once a man secured the two

482
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: thirds vote of the College of Cardinals, they ask him,

483
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: will you accept your canonical election?

484
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Is Supreme Pontiff? Do we know or do you know, father,

485
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: have anybody refused? Has anyone ever refused the office?

486
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: That's a good question, and I don't know the answer,

487
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: But it's canonically very important because the way canon law

488
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: is written, the fact that he gets the majority the

489
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: votes does not make him the pope. He has to

490
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: accept it. So therefore, if he were to say no,

491
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: he's not being he's not at fault, he's not being disloyal,

492
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: he's not being lacking trust in God. You could see

493
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: someone getting elected who knows, for instance, that he has

494
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: a medical condition that he's never spoken in publicly that

495
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 3: could you know, seriously shorten his life. You could know

496
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: that there were stories of things that may now be

497
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: revealed that would you know, hurt him or other people

498
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: in ways that were not necessary, Or he might simply

499
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: say I'm not up to this job. You know, the

500
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: fact that you become a cardinalist, there's no you know,

501
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: vetting of people become cardinals in the sense of, well,

502
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 3: this guy make a good pope. He got elected. Some

503
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: don't you know, possess let's say, knowledge, experience, training and

504
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: the like, which would you know, ordinarily be required for

505
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: someone who's going to head a major institution. You know,

506
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: they're much better at the local leadership of the church.

507
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 3: So they might say, no, I enjoy being Bishop of Xville.

508
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: I don't think I could carry it out. So that's it.

509
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: Once you accept, then you're the pope. Then that's it.

510
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: Follow through comes, yeah, Well, once the new pope accepts

511
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: that job, they're asked, and this I've always found fascinating,

512
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: by what name would you wish to be called? Now,

513
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: that's a tradition. I looked it up today because I

514
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: really didn't know. It's a tradition that goes back to

515
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: five p thirty three. Before that time, all the popes

516
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: use their baptismal names, so you'd be Pope Bob and

517
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 2: Pope Jerry.

518
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: I'd be Pope Raymond.

519
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: But in five point thirty three a priest name Mercurius

520
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: was elected pope, and since he was named after a

521
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: pagan Roman god, he decided to choose the name and

522
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: take the name John the Second, after his predecessor, and

523
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: that tradition stuck a great example of how we've picked

524
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 2: up these bits and pieces of the tradition, the ritual,

525
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: the process of selecting a pope, and then the papacy

526
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 2: itself those chosen names tell us a lot about these men, though,

527
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: don't they.

528
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: Bob, Yeah, I mean, we know from just this recent

529
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 4: case of Francis that that name had never been chosen

530
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 4: by anyone before. And it's kind of a paradoxical name

531
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 4: to choose, because on the one hand, every Catholic I

532
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: think Revere's Saint Francis VISSIZI. It's just because he's he's

533
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: just such an amazing human being. And if you don't

534
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 4: know about him and you're listening to this, go out

535
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 4: and read into what he was like. But on the

536
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 4: other hand, to take on that name is also to

537
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 4: take on a big inheritance, you know, And so it'll

538
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 4: be interesting to see what the next pope decides to

539
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 4: do with his name. Of course, John Paul the Second.

540
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: I was living in Italy the year that John Paul

541
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: the Second was elected, and we had that just one

542
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: month reign of John Paul the First, who picked that

543
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: name because he wanted to. It signified that he was

544
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: going to accept the inheritance both of John the twenty

545
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 4: third and of Paul the sixth, and to try to

546
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 4: bring everyone together. And then John Paul came in after

547
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: the very sudden unexpected death of John Paul the First

548
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 4: and decided, yes, that's a good line to follow, and

549
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: of course he had a spectacular papacy. But you're right.

550
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 4: There's an old Latin phrase that nomina suntanumina, that the

551
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: names are spirits, their names are spirits. And so you

552
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: put a name out there, and you put your seal

553
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: on yourself.

554
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: Well, we will be excitedly awaiting the name of the

555
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: next pope because it does give you a big key

556
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: into who he is. And once the pope accepts the office,

557
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: he's ushered into what they call the Room of Tears.

558
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: It's a little room off the Sistine Chapel. You're seeing

559
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: it there, and there are three sizes of white cassocks

560
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: and ziccketdo's, and the new pope puts one of them on,

561
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: hopefully one that fits, and appears on the loggia of

562
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: Saint Peter's where this time Cardinal Mumberti, who is the

563
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: eldest cardinal in the order of Deacons, he will announce

564
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: jabemos popam, we have a pope. What does that tell

565
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: us father that moment, And in retrospect, I think it

566
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 2: tells us a lot. When they first appear, it is

567
00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: the first and.

568
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: Yes, and that really is the great moment. Now it's

569
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: all done in Latin, by the way, so Latin is

570
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: not a dead language, at least in Rome. It's still

571
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: very much alive. And that's always one of the things

572
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: you have to figure out, how do you say the

573
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: name the first name in Latin. So most people bear

574
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: the name of a saint, so saint names are known

575
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: in Latin because they're in the Roman calendar in Latin.

576
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: But if it's like someone who has the family last

577
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: name is their first name, they're gonna have a little

578
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: experimenting to do. In any event, what happens is the

579
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: name is said, and then people try to pick up

580
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: on it because they say the first name and then

581
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: they say the family name, so the given name and

582
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: then the family name. So I remember with Jorge Bergolio,

583
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: when I heard the Georgias, I was thinking, could it

584
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: be George pell who was the cardinal from Australia, But

585
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: it turned out to be the cardinal from Buenos Ayres.

586
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: The deacon will also announce he said saint, which name

587
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: he's take, So we'll find out at that moment whether

588
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: he's jump all the third, you know, Bennett, the seventeenth.

589
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: Francis the second jump, Baul, Yeah, whatever name they pick,

590
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: Pie is the thirteenth. And then that'll give us an

591
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: indication of which pontificate that particularly inspired this person. And

592
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: of course the Pope comes out, we'll see him giving

593
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: his greetings to the people, and the applause will be massive.

594
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: You know, last time it was raining, if you may remember, yeah,

595
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: I do, the applause was still very, very loud.

596
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's always that's the big moment.

597
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the moment that gives your butterflies and

598
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: kind of takes your breath away when the Pope first

599
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: appears and he is a new man, he's no longer

600
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: the cardinal you knew him ass And they do transform

601
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: in office in sometimes wonderful ways and sometimes not.

602
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: So wonderful ways. But we'll be watching it all.

603
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: So the most surprising thing or interesting thing you came

604
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: across today, Bob.

605
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 4: That's a good question. I think that the way in

606
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 4: which things have somewhat calmed down has surprised me. I

607
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 4: see a number of people, and I talk to a

608
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 4: number of people who who some with very strong opinions

609
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 4: about one thing or another in the church. But there

610
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: seems to have been kind of a settling down that

611
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 4: we know who the people are, we know generally what

612
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 4: the possible directions are going to be. So it's let's

613
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: get serious. Let's get down to business. The voting starts tomorrow.

614
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: This is great father. The most interesting or surprising thing

615
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: you heard today?

616
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: Well, I guess the most interesting thing I've heard is

617
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: that two candidates that I think are particularly going to

618
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: be in the running. I keep hearing good things about them.

619
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: Cardinal Pitzabala from Jerusalem talking to people, finding out, you know,

620
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: what they know about and what they've heard about him.

621
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: And likewise, one of the curial cardinals, Cardinal Mambert. We

622
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: mentioned him, you mentioned him as the Cardinal Deacon of

623
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: greatest longevity, another name again being confirmed, what a good

624
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: man he is and what a good pope he would be.

625
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: So you know, we're all in the information gathering mode

626
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: here and talking to people and hearing. You know, how

627
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: often do we praise each other? Maybe not enough, but

628
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: when you're started hearing praise about two men who could

629
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: be the next pope, my years perked up.

630
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: Well, gentlemen, we will leave it there.

631
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: The Royal Grande Conclave Crew Vatican addition will continue. Don't

632
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: miss our next episode. Go subscribe. We're going to give

633
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: you the latest. Go to a Royal Grande show on

634
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: YouTube or a Royal Grande podcast wherever you get yours.

635
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 2: And this series has been brought to us and you

636
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: by our friends at Taylor for Gone Capital Management, Faith,

637
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: Family and Finances. There at Taylorforegone dot com as well

638
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: as Floriani they're revitalizing sacred music. Floriani dot org on

639
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: behalf of Robert Royal Father Gerald Murray.

640
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: We will convene again. I'm Raymond Arroyo from Rome, Say

641
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: next time.

642
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

643
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get

644
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: your podcasts