Speaker 1: After spending four days listening to Jake Wagner testify against
Speaker 1: his older brother George, jurors today heard from both boys mother,
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. She speaks of her husband and her sons
Speaker 1: in a very loving manner. She's really presenting today as
Speaker 1: a sweet, loving mother. She's there to save her life,
Speaker 1: but also the lives of her family. Lord knows how
Speaker 1: many people that had actually stolen from It sounds like
Speaker 1: the Old West because they had even gotten involvement poaching
Speaker 1: and cattle whistle. You can have sympathy for somebody, but
Speaker 1: when you take part in killing eight people, sorry, that
Speaker 1: all goes out the window. This is the pike To Massacre.
Speaker 1: Return to Pike County season four, episode nineteen, and it
Speaker 1: takes the stand. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidicker and Jeff Shane. It's important
Speaker 1: to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty and maintained he did not kill anyone. His father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. We've heard testimony from Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: about his role in the crimes against the Rodin, Manly
Speaker 1: and Gilly families. Today we're hearing from another pivotal witness
Speaker 1: for the prosecution and accused killer comes face to face
Speaker 1: with his mother for the first time since both were
Speaker 1: arrested four years ago. Jurors today heard from both boys mother,
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner, looking somewhat frail and wearing a drab jail uniform.
Speaker 1: The fifty two year old Wagner took the stand around
Speaker 1: ten fifteen this morning, wearing a drab black and white
Speaker 1: jail uniform. Angela Wagner walks into the courtroom. James Pilcher,
Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter from Cincinnati now with Local twelve, was
Speaker 1: there and Angela arrived at court so one thing that
Speaker 1: her appearance was much different than in the past. Her
Speaker 1: hair was much longer. One of the other interesting details
Speaker 1: is that she was shackle much like her son was,
Speaker 1: but the change were much lighter, so they made a
Speaker 1: much different noise on the floor and she walked by,
Speaker 1: it was more like a clank clank clink rather than
Speaker 1: clank clank clank. Here's Stephanie, who was also in the
Speaker 1: courtroom during Angela Agnes testimony. You can literally hear her
Speaker 1: with her shackles coming down the hallway, which was such
Speaker 1: an eerie sound. James Pilcher described the atmosphere in the
Speaker 1: courtroom that day. The courtroom, you could have heard a
Speaker 1: pin drop, Jak. It wasn't like that, But when we're
Speaker 1: waiting for Angela, for the mother of the suspect who's
Speaker 1: on trial, it was definitely quiet because everybody has always
Speaker 1: thought that she was the mastermind behind all of this,
Speaker 1: and I think that was one thing that they were
Speaker 1: anticipating coming out. And there was also the tension of
Speaker 1: knowing a mother and her son, we're going to see
Speaker 1: each other for the first time with her testifying against him,
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of tension and very very
Speaker 1: quiet in that courtroom when we're waiting for her to
Speaker 1: take the stand. When she sat down, she didn't even
Speaker 1: look at George, and George pretty much looked like he
Speaker 1: had his eyes down the entire time. Angela Wagner chose
Speaker 1: to opt out of having her testimony recorded. Therefore, the
Speaker 1: only people who heard her testimony were the jury, the judge,
Speaker 1: the respective attorneys, and the family and media that were
Speaker 1: present in the courtroom. Here's Jeff speaking with annge Neette Levy,
Speaker 1: investigative reporter and host for Long Crime. They opted out
Speaker 1: because they could. They thought it was completely ridiculous. You're
Speaker 1: a cooperating witness, you're convicted, you should be forced to
Speaker 1: get up there and face the music on camera. But
Speaker 1: he recorded all of these road and family members got
Speaker 1: up there and bared their souls and were recorded. And
Speaker 1: you know, why shouldn't he and Angela have to do
Speaker 1: the same. Does the jury know who opt in and
Speaker 1: opts out? No? I don't believe so, because the bailiff
Speaker 1: would go over and tell the photographer or tell members
Speaker 1: of the media who opted and who opted out. Here's
Speaker 1: forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. It's so very easy
Speaker 1: to forget the Rodents. And I guess on a spiritual
Speaker 1: level of since this all kind of kicked off, I've
Speaker 1: always imagined every single member of that family in a
Speaker 1: spiritual form, sitting on the front row watching seeing if
Speaker 1: they're going to receive any level of justice, and this
Speaker 1: is part of that justice. These people whose poor, poor victims,
Speaker 1: They deserve to have each individual story told when it
Speaker 1: comes to their deaths. This is a mass murder. You know,
Speaker 1: their lives ended it at the end of the muzzle
Speaker 1: of the weapon and cut short, every single one of them,
Speaker 1: every singing. They still be here where there's today. I
Speaker 1: have no doubt, you know, and they deserved their due.
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kneppa begins her opening remarks for the day.
Speaker 1: We said that if anyone else came forward and could
Speaker 1: tell us something that was consistent with what we had
Speaker 1: just heard, that would do two things for us, and
Speaker 1: it would just be stronger corroborating evidence that another member
Speaker 1: of the Wagner family was giving us the same information
Speaker 1: without knowing exactly what Jake had said, right, And that
Speaker 1: person that came forward was Angela Wagner. Kneppa comes right
Speaker 1: out of the gate with the question everyone has been
Speaker 1: wondering about. One thing that really stuck out to me
Speaker 1: was they approached her much differently than they did Jake.
Speaker 1: At the very very beginning, at the very opening of
Speaker 1: her testimony, they asked a point blank, are you guilty
Speaker 1: of taking part in these murders? Yes? Did you help
Speaker 1: plan them? Yes? Did you help prepare for or yes?
Speaker 1: Did you aid in a bet? Yes? Who else apart
Speaker 1: my husband Billy my son is George and Jake. So
Speaker 1: suffice it to say, all four of you were involved
Speaker 1: in these homicides that night. Yes, she was out point blank,
Speaker 1: are you guilty of aggravated murder? She said, yes, we
Speaker 1: all are. That was a really key moment. Here's Mike Allen,
Speaker 1: attorney and legal analyst who's been following the case from
Speaker 1: the beginning. I think the fact that Angie Kaneppa asked
Speaker 1: the question are you guilty and the answer from Angela
Speaker 1: was yes, That's a big part of her testimony and
Speaker 1: I think just getting that out up front lets the
Speaker 1: jury know that, you know, she's not messing around here,
Speaker 1: and she's admitting to her involvement in it, not necessarily
Speaker 1: firing any weapons, but she was in it up to
Speaker 1: her neck, and that was established early on in her testimony.
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Kneppa asked Angela Wagner about her childhood here
Speaker 1: again Stephanie. Angela said, this is the first time I
Speaker 1: had heard this. She has sort of this messy relationship
Speaker 1: with her own father because she was feuding with him
Speaker 1: a bit about having sex. Then she goes to the
Speaker 1: military and is sexually assaulted, leaves there and gets married
Speaker 1: very quickly with Billy, and she speaks of frankly Billy
Speaker 1: and her grand babies and her son's in a very
Speaker 1: loving manner. You know, she's really presenting today as a sweet,
Speaker 1: loving mother. On the stand, Angela isn't quite what we expected.
Speaker 1: She's soft spoken and as a bit of a baby talker,
Speaker 1: and instantly I was expecting a much bigger presence. Here's
Speaker 1: Jeff and Angeanette. What do you make of that? Do
Speaker 1: you think that's an act or do you think that
Speaker 1: she's kind of changed in jail. I think she was
Speaker 1: probably a nervous b doesn't want to be there. She
Speaker 1: may be feeling badly about throwing her son under the bus,
Speaker 1: implicating him in these homicides. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I think that she's a master manipulator. I think she's
Speaker 1: good at playing a role when she has to. So
Speaker 1: you don't really buy it. I mean, I don't buy
Speaker 1: the meat mild mannered part of it. I think maybe
Speaker 1: in that instance that was her, but she's just quiet
Speaker 1: and soft spoken. Obviously, that's not what we've heard from
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner on the wire taps, or what we heard
Speaker 1: about Angela Wagner from Tabitha's testimony or Elizabeth Armer's testimony.
Speaker 1: As we've talked about incessantly, she's been this monster in
Speaker 1: our minds and certainly in mind. This is the big
Speaker 1: bad wolf, right this is her day in court, and
Speaker 1: this is the monster we've been talking about, and we
Speaker 1: know that is true. She's admitted it. We've heard helpless
Speaker 1: stories about it. I'm told it's coming. We're going to
Speaker 1: see the crack in her very soon. But right now,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like watching a movie in a way.
Speaker 1: It's almost as though, what's that movie? Primal Fear? And
Speaker 1: Edward Norton has sort of an interesting dialect, and he
Speaker 1: has mannerisms that are very specific. And then at the
Speaker 1: very end when he's proven to be innocent and you
Speaker 1: find out that he's, ah, I was lying the whole time,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have an accent. He was just pretending
Speaker 1: to be this completely different person. And it feels like
Speaker 1: she's that right now. And I have to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, it's very believable. You know, we've been tracking
Speaker 1: this case so closely, and then you look at jurors
Speaker 1: and you have to hope they're not buying it. Here again,
Speaker 1: James Filcher. The juxtaposition between what you heard on tape
Speaker 1: and what she presented in person was much much different,
Speaker 1: much more low key, much calmer, much more meat. As
Speaker 1: for her demeanor, again, she's there to save her life
Speaker 1: but also the lives of her family as part of
Speaker 1: her plea deal, So she obviously is going to be
Speaker 1: on her best behavior. So I think that was part
Speaker 1: of it. But I also think part of it she
Speaker 1: was probably on her meds and she admitted that. During
Speaker 1: cross examination, Prosecutor Kneppa asked Angela Wagner about when Jake
Speaker 1: and George were children. Wagner testifies that she didn't think
Speaker 1: George and Jake were getting the one on one attention
Speaker 1: they needed at public school, so she and Billy decided
Speaker 1: to homeschool them, and they began by interrogating her about
Speaker 1: how she raised Jake and George, explaining that she homeschooled
Speaker 1: them both until high school while their father, Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: allegedly taught them how to steal from trucks and trailers.
Speaker 1: There's obviously a lack of socialization there. I mean, these
Speaker 1: kids were raised and when I say kids, Jake and
Speaker 1: George and this kind of upbringing where they were homeschooled
Speaker 1: and didn't really have a lot of exposure to the
Speaker 1: outside world. Of course, they knew people outside of their family,
Speaker 1: but not many. They didn't really have a lot of
Speaker 1: friends outside of you know, people who worked at the
Speaker 1: Flying w and things like that. So they didn't have
Speaker 1: a quote unquote normal childhood. And there's questions about the curriculum.
Speaker 1: They were taught that they needed to be there deferential
Speaker 1: and polite, not to act up, things like that, but
Speaker 1: it was almost in a way that they were taught
Speaker 1: these things so that they could get away with crimes
Speaker 1: and not necessarily so they could be good human beings.
Speaker 1: We heard about some of this education in Jake's testimony.
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner's testimony expands it on the family dynamic. She
Speaker 1: speaks about how the family would set fires to their
Speaker 1: properties and file insurance claims. That was one thing that
Speaker 1: the prosecution did too, and they did it with Jake,
Speaker 1: but they did it more with Angela, and that is
Speaker 1: they clearly laid out how Angela was involved and planned
Speaker 1: several criminal acts leading up to all of this, including
Speaker 1: the arsons. They rebuilt the house again up there on
Speaker 1: Fredrica's property, and Fredrika said, well, I'm going to sell
Speaker 1: the property and you're not going to really be compensated
Speaker 1: for the house. And at that point Angela said, I
Speaker 1: don't want anybody living this dream house that we built
Speaker 1: with our own bare hands. So they burned it down
Speaker 1: for the insurance money, and they walked through all of that.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because the way Kneppa did this was chronological,
Speaker 1: and Angela's towards the end of this trial, and so
Speaker 1: it's almost like she's confirming all the things that we've heard.
Speaker 1: They talked about the insurance for the fires, all of
Speaker 1: these pieces that we've heard about. Angela's like, yes, that happened, Yes,
Speaker 1: that happened, Yes, that happened. What do you make of that?
Speaker 1: I think miss Kannappa was doing that on purpose to
Speaker 1: show that the testimony, Angela's testimony job with the physical
Speaker 1: call evidence in the case. And I think it was
Speaker 1: a good strategy because it did line up in her testimony,
Speaker 1: I mean pretty solidly. So I think that was a
Speaker 1: good strategy. And again, as I said, I think Angela
Speaker 1: came off as pre credible. The defense lean did on
Speaker 1: these planned arsons during cross examination. Here's James Pilcher, followed
Speaker 1: by Stephanie. The defense started its cross examination by leaning
Speaker 1: into Angela's previous criminal acts, including Arson's for insurance money, shoplifting,
Speaker 1: and helping steal diesel fuel and truckloads of goods. I
Speaker 1: think it is going to prove to be very relevant.
Speaker 1: They're painting a picture of her, although she was very
Speaker 1: sweet and cute all day. At the very end cross
Speaker 1: examination happened, and that was a jaw dropper because George's
Speaker 1: defense attorney it puts on a pretty good display and
Speaker 1: kind of take us through Angela's early years and then
Speaker 1: they start getting into where she lives and how they
Speaker 1: ended up at the house in the end that she lived,
Speaker 1: which was Pugs. What he was painting the picture for
Speaker 1: was that, Yeah, she has in fact burned down by Arson.
Speaker 1: Three houses. She had to admit to that today in
Speaker 1: the court of law. He was like, this house was
Speaker 1: very expensive. How did you get the money for this house? Oh? Wait,
Speaker 1: didn't the house before this house? What happened to that house? Oh,
Speaker 1: it burnt down, But how did you get the money
Speaker 1: for that house? Oh? The house before that, Oh that
Speaker 1: one burned down? So three houses, and I think a
Speaker 1: garage all burnt down. You got insurance money for all
Speaker 1: of them. On cross examination, the defense asks Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: if Jake and George were involved in the arsons. Angela's response, yes,
Speaker 1: but who gives a damn? By the way, when all
Speaker 1: these arsons were happening, George was one time he was sixteen,
Speaker 1: one time George was fifteen, Like George was in the
Speaker 1: home during these shenanigans. Angela also testified about other crimes
Speaker 1: she's committed with Billy in front of the boys, including
Speaker 1: pill running. Prosecutor Kneppa asks Angela Wagner if she's ever
Speaker 1: stolen fuel, before Angela responds yes, she was the lookout.
Speaker 1: Angela also testified that Billy taught the boys had a
Speaker 1: safe and fuel. I think that they see themselves as
Speaker 1: engaging in and just fible outlawry. If you, if you
Speaker 1: will that you know the government is all bad. We're
Speaker 1: really representative of the working people you know here in
Speaker 1: this community. You know it's cliche, but you know our
Speaker 1: family has been here for generations. We know we don't
Speaker 1: know what the real story is here. We know that
Speaker 1: you're not going to get ahead in this world and
Speaker 1: this hardscrabb of life that we're leading. You're not going
Speaker 1: to get ahead in this world unless you you steal,
Speaker 1: going to some hard working families home or the farm
Speaker 1: and robin them, or burglarizing and taking what is not
Speaker 1: there and being able to justify that. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's a real Lord of the Flies moment and its
Speaker 1: survival of the fittists. And they've done that. You know,
Speaker 1: Lord knows how many people that had actually stolen from
Speaker 1: in that community. You know, you you think about things
Speaker 1: just uh, you know, two by fours and wood paneling
Speaker 1: and you know, going out to job sites and essentially
Speaker 1: robbing hard working people of the things that they need
Speaker 1: to get by on. It sounds like the Old West
Speaker 1: because they had even gotten involved in poaching and cattle
Speaker 1: rustling of all things, you know, student livestock. So that's
Speaker 1: an operation. That's that's not a one man operation, is it.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's a lot of work. It's not like
Speaker 1: little Jake is just running around doing all of this
Speaker 1: stuff with this crazy father. You gotta have multiple hands
Speaker 1: on the wheel here. And I think that you know,
Speaker 1: this goes to George and this this thievery, this you know,
Speaker 1: nefarious behaviors. It's like a virus. I think that just
Speaker 1: it spreads like wildfire through a family because you know,
Speaker 1: it's the children bear witnessed it when they're grown up
Speaker 1: in the home, and they know that this is just
Speaker 1: part of life, that they're involved in it, and you
Speaker 1: know what, it was probably normal for them to go
Speaker 1: and take food out of people's mouths. There's a question
Speaker 1: of whether this kind of testimony about Jake and George's
Speaker 1: upbringing is making them sympathetic to the jury. Here again
Speaker 1: Joseph Morgan, followed by Angeinette Levy, for George an appoint
Speaker 1: in his life that he was at he was still
Speaker 1: going to be bullied by Billy and potentially by Angela
Speaker 1: as well. I think Angela is probably chief amongst centers here.
Speaker 1: He just couldn't get out of his own way. And
Speaker 1: so I guess if the jury can take away some
Speaker 1: bit of sympathy for George as he's you know, he's
Speaker 1: he's own trial there in the courthouse, I guess that's
Speaker 1: that's probably where it would come from. There may have
Speaker 1: been a little bit of sympathy, but I don't think
Speaker 1: there was a whole lot. I mean, you can have
Speaker 1: sympathy for somebody, but when you take part in killing
Speaker 1: eight people, sorry, that all goes out the window. It
Speaker 1: might be an explanation, but it doesn't excuse it. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: The prosecution asks Angela about her relationship with her daughter
Speaker 1: in laws. We've heard in previous testimony how George's ex wife,
Speaker 1: Tabitha was essentially cut off from her child by the
Speaker 1: Wagner family. We've also heard about how Angela claimed to
Speaker 1: love Hannah may Roden like a daughter, but there was
Speaker 1: friction over custody of the child she shared with Jake.
Speaker 1: We've spoken before about how Angela wanted to spy on
Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin's Facebook activity. Prosecutor Kneppa asked how she got
Speaker 1: access to her passwords to monitor Facebook. According to Angela,
Speaker 1: she asked Jake and he gave it to her. Joseph
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. She controlled everything, and he controlled everything, even
Speaker 1: down to the relationships that you know that she had,
Speaker 1: that her sons had, you know, outside the home, you know,
Speaker 1: with these women that came into their lives, and when
Speaker 1: you're in a position of power where you can control people,
Speaker 1: to the point where their romantic interest is trumped by
Speaker 1: your ability to manipulate them, where you would be willing to,
Speaker 1: you know, at her direction, compel your lovers to give
Speaker 1: over passwords and access. Just that one point alone is
Speaker 1: really eye catching. Angela used this access to social media
Speaker 1: to share screenshots about custody of her granddaughter with the family.
Speaker 1: She was also trying to get information on Tabitha, George
Speaker 1: Wagner's ex wife. This is not what she said, but
Speaker 1: she's intimating that she's just protecting her boys away from
Speaker 1: these bad girls. Essentially, he's a reminder of what Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner said when she was recorded by the BCI at
Speaker 1: the Canadian border. So your relationship with Hannah was good. Now,
Speaker 1: I thought she was a sport wrap. But I thought
Speaker 1: she was a sport wrap because she really was. I mean, no,
Speaker 1: that's that she was her dad's ever get away with
Speaker 1: every n I WoT, she would give me looks and
Speaker 1: she would smarrow and she would tell Jacob was being mean,
Speaker 1: and you know, but that's typical teenager. Sometimes Mothera was
Speaker 1: and ye time and time again, Wagner would bring it
Speaker 1: back to how her family was everything to her. And
Speaker 1: informed everything she did. But the prosecution brings up an
Speaker 1: incident with Tabitha that we haven't heard about before. Here's
Speaker 1: Jeff speaking with lawng Crimes Ajeanette Levy. She also said
Speaker 1: some weird things about Tabby. Angie Kneppa asked her about
Speaker 1: Tabby and said, you know, did Tabby ever try to
Speaker 1: poison you or anything like that. She's like, yes, and
Speaker 1: she was just adamant about it, just like Jake was
Speaker 1: adamant like about certain things. She said. She described how
Speaker 1: Tabby one time put dog hair in her coffee, and
Speaker 1: she and Jake liked a particular type of vanilla coffee,
Speaker 1: and she said she had her coffee cup one time
Speaker 1: and Tabby had made this cup for her and she
Speaker 1: looked at it and she, you know, she said, Jake,
Speaker 1: is there, there's dog hair in this coffee. And she
Speaker 1: was serious as could be, and she said Tabby was
Speaker 1: laughing about it. She described another time where Tabby had
Speaker 1: made some kool aid for George that he liked and
Speaker 1: he got really sick. So she has these like things
Speaker 1: that she kind of comes up with. The dog hair
Speaker 1: in the coffee thing was just astounding to me. She
Speaker 1: truly believed that. I don't know if it actually happened.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine somebody putting dog hair in somebody's coffee.
Speaker 1: Just seems like such a strange thing, But they believe it.
Speaker 1: It's gospel. This belief in the untrue and the ability
Speaker 1: to convince her family of it, is one of Angela's strengths,
Speaker 1: according to forensic examiner Joseph Markin. You know, you think
Speaker 1: about Billy, and you know Billy's they're teaching young Jake
Speaker 1: how to hot wire car and sealing it. Well, she's
Speaker 1: doing the same thing. It's justifiable for you to betray
Speaker 1: somebody that you claim to love if it's for the
Speaker 1: greater good of the family. And so it's amazing how
Speaker 1: you can psychologically leverage somebody with information like that, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Where you can be the driver that you have this
Speaker 1: endwelling inertia, you know that carries over to the family
Speaker 1: and push him in the direction which you so desire.
Speaker 1: It was one belief in particular that Angela held that
Speaker 1: helped set in motion the events that led to the
Speaker 1: murder of the Manly and Gilly families. Angela testified she
Speaker 1: became worried her granddaughter was being abused while staying with
Speaker 1: the Roden family. She said, quote, I realized something was happening,
Speaker 1: some kind of abuse was going on that needed to
Speaker 1: be stopped. Agela Wagner was asked if she loved Hannah.
Speaker 1: She said, yes, I did at one point, but issues
Speaker 1: made me feel like it was being sexually abused. Angela
Speaker 1: said she became concerned over signs of abuse and claims
Speaker 1: that her grandchild would often appear reluctant to leave and
Speaker 1: return to Hannah since they had shared custody. James Pilcher
Speaker 1: here's her direct quote. She said, I realized something was happening,
Speaker 1: some kind of abuse was going on that needed to
Speaker 1: be stopped. And she said she didn't trust child services
Speaker 1: or the law, our law enhorsement, and neither did her husband, Billy.
Speaker 1: We've already established that Billy was a doomsday or Billy
Speaker 1: hated police. Billy paid his kids to spot police. Billy
Speaker 1: taught his kids how to be thieves, so this all
Speaker 1: fed into it. Although Angela didn't want to kill him,
Speaker 1: some of the ways she would answer, she was like,
Speaker 1: well why did you do this? We were protecting and
Speaker 1: she almost appeared like she was in a fog on
Speaker 1: a stand. But then when it got to that, it
Speaker 1: was almost like she was razor white hot when she
Speaker 1: would talk about protecting that little girl, and then they
Speaker 1: talked about Angela's passed in the Air Force and all
Speaker 1: of this surrounding ever present fear of sexual abuse, and
Speaker 1: it became almost a paranoia and you could see it
Speaker 1: in display clearly when she started talking about that. So
Speaker 1: the lead reasoning has been that she felt as though
Speaker 1: it was being sexually molested or was going to be
Speaker 1: sexually molested, not that there's ever been proof of that,
Speaker 1: but that was the reasoning, and that at some point
Speaker 1: she noticed that Frankie Rodin kissed on the lips saying goodbye,
Speaker 1: and that felt a little strange. In fact, she actually
Speaker 1: says that told her mother, Rita Nookam, who at the
Speaker 1: time was living next door to her with her grandmother,
Speaker 1: that she was being touched inappropriately, and then Rita Newcomb
Speaker 1: repeated that to Angela, and then Angela repeated it to
Speaker 1: Jake and the entire family, George and Billy. At that
Speaker 1: point when Jake found out about it, rather than talking
Speaker 1: about it with the Rodents or anything, they just started
Speaker 1: putting this plan together to protect her, and she had
Speaker 1: to protect the babies. But apparently Angela Wagner's assertions of
Speaker 1: abuse were not based in reality. This fear that the
Speaker 1: little girl would be molested. The prosecution basically says that
Speaker 1: was something they kind of whipped up in their heads
Speaker 1: to justify what they wanted to do. They are entitled
Speaker 1: and feel that those children should be with them and
Speaker 1: no one else. There is no doubt that this family
Speaker 1: wanted those kids to be under Wagner and that's what
Speaker 1: this is all about. They had convinced themselves there may
Speaker 1: have been some abuse, but that was basically window dressing
Speaker 1: for their their belief that these kids should belong to them,
Speaker 1: regardless of any actual evidence of abuse. The idea had
Speaker 1: been planted in the minds of the Wagner family, and
Speaker 1: Angela stoked the fire. I think that she's probably arguably
Speaker 1: the smartest one in the crew, and the reason I
Speaker 1: think that that's it's quite ominous. I think she knew
Speaker 1: what buttons to press with all three of these men
Speaker 1: in her life. You know, she's probably known how to
Speaker 1: control them their entire life her at least that portion
Speaker 1: of Billy's life that he was with her. She knew,
Speaker 1: you know, where to press, how far she could go
Speaker 1: to attain her goals, if you will, in any of
Speaker 1: this and anything that she she set her mind to doing.
Speaker 1: And you know, she she wanted to be be the
Speaker 1: head hancho, you know, in the family, and she was.
Speaker 1: She told Jewors she suspected the Rodents were abusing, did
Speaker 1: not take her to the doctor. Said, we didn't believe
Speaker 1: in the justice system, didn't believe in children's services, she said.
Speaker 1: By Nanuary twenty sixteen, her husband started coming up with
Speaker 1: the plan they had to be murdered. She said. She
Speaker 1: went to her husband, Billy, with her concerns, saying she
Speaker 1: wanted to turn in Chris Roden Senior for growing marijuana.
Speaker 1: Billy nixed that, coming up with an alternate plan. She said, quote.
Speaker 1: The plan was they needed to be murdered. Later, she said,
Speaker 1: her husband told the entire family quote, this was going
Speaker 1: to change everything. According to Angelo Agnes testimony, Billy came
Speaker 1: up with the plan for murder. Billy ultimately decided that
Speaker 1: the only way was to kill Hannah, and that they
Speaker 1: couldn't stop short of killing Hannah Rodin, the mother of
Speaker 1: but they would have to kill Chris Rodan Senior because
Speaker 1: he ultimately exercised control over Hannah and the Roden family,
Speaker 1: and that other witnesses, other members of the Roden family
Speaker 1: would have to be killed for it to be successful.
Speaker 1: That's essentially what Angela testified, and that really was Billy
Speaker 1: who was the driver here. Angela wanted to hern Chris
Speaker 1: Senior in for his marijuana and then that would get
Speaker 1: the family in trouble, and therefore maybe Jake would get
Speaker 1: more visitation rights or more control over the over the
Speaker 1: fate of his daughter and her granddaughter. Well, of course
Speaker 1: that cut too close for home for Billy, because Billy
Speaker 1: had been in business with Chris. Chris Sinior had tried
Speaker 1: to teach Billy how to grow marijuana. And then so
Speaker 1: she says, Billy came up with this alternate plan. Here's
Speaker 1: the quote quote. The plan was they needed to be murdered. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then it progressed from there that, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 1: start talking about how we're going to do it. And
Speaker 1: she said that they would actually have conversations with the
Speaker 1: water running or outside in the carboard, with the car running,
Speaker 1: without the TV's on, with no phones around, because they're
Speaker 1: so paranoid of being overheard. During one of these meetings
Speaker 1: with George and Jake Wagner in the kitchen, Angela asked
Speaker 1: her sons if they wanted to go through with the murder.
Speaker 1: According to Angela, they said yes. Joseph Morgan says that
Speaker 1: the accusation of molestation would get the rest of the
Speaker 1: Wagner family to do what Angela wanted. She was the
Speaker 1: person that had the thirty thousand foot view of the
Speaker 1: entire family. She saw where all the weaknesses were, she
Speaker 1: saw where the strengths were, and she knew what the
Speaker 1: goal was in order to win, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think that her endgame has always been to have, you know,
Speaker 1: total control over the Wagner family. And you know, she
Speaker 1: was going to be she's a run her own ship,
Speaker 1: and she's she's the master of the ship as well,
Speaker 1: and all of these people are there to do her bidding.
Speaker 1: And you know, Billy may have had this thought at
Speaker 1: a real primal level. I think that he needed to
Speaker 1: take care of the road. And but it was, in
Speaker 1: my opinion least it was Angela that was overlording all
Speaker 1: of this all the way along. In episode four thirteen,
Speaker 1: we saw evidence of how Angela manipulated Billy through text messages.
Speaker 1: I am moving on. You are more than walk to
Speaker 1: come bring babies and come on, Angela, well, they are
Speaker 1: not our babies. And I would never do that to
Speaker 1: George and Jake. I would have killed someone if they
Speaker 1: would have even mentioned going away with my babies. And
Speaker 1: if you really missed me, you would do anything or
Speaker 1: go through anything for me. Billy. It's a fine mess, Angela. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe it is worth you helping me work it out, Billy.
Speaker 1: I got a plan if you just take one damn
Speaker 1: minute and listen, Angela. Okay, tell me, Billy when I
Speaker 1: see you. This is the last time I am going
Speaker 1: to try. If the three of you don't take time
Speaker 1: to listen to me, then oh well, Angela okay. Joseph Morgan,
Speaker 1: isn't it amazing? A fun? You know? And Angela is
Speaker 1: certainly a fun example of this. It's very easy for
Speaker 1: her to rationalize and justify her actions. She doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: do in court, but the lead up to it, when
Speaker 1: she's the driver behind all this, is that she's looking
Speaker 1: out for the greater good of the family. You know.
Speaker 1: It's the women. The women are all women of ill repute,
Speaker 1: the kids that she does not have in her immediate control,
Speaker 1: run the risk of being sexually molested, that she needs
Speaker 1: to be one to provide watch care, and the family
Speaker 1: has to watch over him at all time. The rest
Speaker 1: of the world is evil, We're the ones that are right.
Speaker 1: And isn't that interesting how her worldview kind of parallels
Speaker 1: that of Billy's. While Angela testified it wasn't her idea
Speaker 1: to murder the Rodents, she did admit to helping plan
Speaker 1: the crimes. Now well understand, Angela Wagner admitted to him
Speaker 1: staying at home on the night of the murders, but
Speaker 1: said she helped her sons and husband prepare for them.
Speaker 1: Here's Prosecutor Angela Kaneppa laying out what Angela Wagner bought
Speaker 1: to prepare for the murders. She admits to buying the
Speaker 1: shoes for her sons. We show Jake at least his
Speaker 1: awards card being used to buy seven, six, nine thirty
Speaker 1: two AMMO and a magazine for SKS. Also in April,
Speaker 1: there was a phone jammer purchase by Angela. A phone
Speaker 1: jammer jams signals for phones. So say you're going to
Speaker 1: go murder eight people and you don't want them to
Speaker 1: be able to call for help. Then you have a
Speaker 1: phone jammer on your person and it jams the signals.
Speaker 1: But that was purchased and a bug detector was purchased
Speaker 1: by Angela. The financial records also just confirm what we
Speaker 1: already knew, which was they function as one unit and
Speaker 1: pretty much everything they do financially is no exception. Angela
Speaker 1: said that Billy came to her with this idea, that
Speaker 1: they discussed it outside in this area of you know,
Speaker 1: like carpoort type area, and I'm trying to like envision
Speaker 1: where exactly that would be. But they were outside the
Speaker 1: home on Peterson Road, and Billy came up with this
Speaker 1: and then she said, you know that they included did
Speaker 1: the boys, But she said she didn't go along. She
Speaker 1: did order things. She ordered what Billy told her to order.
Speaker 1: She said, Jake told her to go buy the Walmart shoes,
Speaker 1: and so she did, and you know, it was just
Speaker 1: kind of like she was the shopper Almos. This is
Speaker 1: what it sounds like. Billy took care, I guess of
Speaker 1: everything else, and the boys took care of everything else.
Speaker 1: So you know, it sounds like she was kind of
Speaker 1: throwing it all on Billy. Let's stop here for another break.
Speaker 1: According to Angela's testimony, Billy said they needed a vehicle
Speaker 1: for the murders. Angela told George to get five thousand
Speaker 1: dollars out of their safe and use that to purchase
Speaker 1: the truck that would be used the night of the murders.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie. She was definitely saying it as though this
Speaker 1: was Billy and Jake Joy Orange's plan. And yes, she
Speaker 1: was kind of going through the paces to stick to
Speaker 1: their story. And yes she went and she bought the stuff,
Speaker 1: and the shoes were something that she actually purchased. Quite obviously.
Speaker 1: They have her on camera doing it, so on the
Speaker 1: one hand, she's sort of just a bystander to it,
Speaker 1: and to this day claims she doesn't know the nightly details.
Speaker 1: Angela testifies that prior to the murders, Billy came over
Speaker 1: one night and was telling everyone quote, come on, come on,
Speaker 1: but apparently nobody listened, and so Billy got mad and left.
Speaker 1: Nobody was moving fast enough, but the next day Billy
Speaker 1: Wagner came back. He told them to get ready. Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Kneppa asks of Angela knew who was going through the killings.
Speaker 1: Angela's response, No, I didn't ask and I wasn't told
Speaker 1: about the murder. To this day, she doesn't know the
Speaker 1: details of what happened that night because they've never told
Speaker 1: her and Billy never told her. All she knows is
Speaker 1: what the plan was, that she had to keep the
Speaker 1: phones and that at a certain time she would send
Speaker 1: out a text as she was supposed to kind of
Speaker 1: place the phones at the house. When Billy, Jake, and
Speaker 1: George left for the road and households, Angela claims she
Speaker 1: was conflicted. Angela testified about the actual day of the murders,
Speaker 1: saying she saw Jake, George, and Billy Wagner leave that evening.
Speaker 1: She said she was overwhelmed with emotion after they left,
Speaker 1: fearing they might not come back or even what might happen.
Speaker 1: Angel also testified she thought about racing after them to
Speaker 1: stop them, but realized it was too late. Jeff and
Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy. This is according to her. She stayed home
Speaker 1: that night. It was just really interesting to me because
Speaker 1: she did her part, and then she said she had
Speaker 1: taken an ivy prof and so she fell and then
Speaker 1: she fell asleep. So you know, she fell asleep as
Speaker 1: they went on this horrific mission to kill people, even
Speaker 1: though she said she felt bad about it and thought, oh,
Speaker 1: I wonder if I could stop it. But you know,
Speaker 1: oh but I had the kids here, so she didn't
Speaker 1: take any steps to stop it. Do you buy that
Speaker 1: at all? I mean, I think she might have had
Speaker 1: some misgivings, but no, I find it hard to believe that.
Speaker 1: Your excuses, Oh well, I'm home with the kids, so
Speaker 1: I can't stop them from going and killing eight people
Speaker 1: or even one person. I mean, come on, if she
Speaker 1: wanted to stop it, she could have stopped it. As
Speaker 1: news coverage shows, the horrific events of the night unfolded
Speaker 1: as the Wagners had planned. The night of the homicide,
Speaker 1: she said, the three Wagner men left the house together,
Speaker 1: returned together the next morning. She did not know who
Speaker 1: did the shooting, did not want the details. That night,
Speaker 1: eight members of the Rodent, Manly, and Gilly families were murdered.
Speaker 1: Angela testifies that the next day she heard about the
Speaker 1: murders on the news. George Wagner's mom did say today
Speaker 1: that while she knew what was going to happen six
Speaker 1: years ago, the homicide still shocked her. She remembers asking
Speaker 1: her husband Billy why so many victims? His response quote,
Speaker 1: because they were there. During cross examination of Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: an attorney for her son George, keet on two themes,
Speaker 1: Angela's lies and her paranoia. The defense team's goal is
Speaker 1: the cast blame for the twenty sixteen Pike County massacre
Speaker 1: on Angela, her husband Billy, and George's brother Jake, but
Speaker 1: not the man on trial for murderer. We've heard so
Speaker 1: much about her, you know, we've talked about her for years,
Speaker 1: and she's been kind of like the center of all
Speaker 1: of this, and this is the culmination of all that.
Speaker 1: I mean, what's your take on hearing it straight from
Speaker 1: her mouth finally? Well, I mean, it's shocking to hear
Speaker 1: it really is. More on that next time. For more
Speaker 1: information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pike and Maskers produced
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel
Speaker 1: Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by
Speaker 1: Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston. The Piked Massacre is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.