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Speaker 1: After spending four days listening to Jake Wagner testify against

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Speaker 1: his older brother George, jurors today heard from both boys mother,

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Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. She speaks of her husband and her sons

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Speaker 1: in a very loving manner. She's really presenting today as

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Speaker 1: a sweet, loving mother. She's there to save her life,

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Speaker 1: but also the lives of her family. Lord knows how

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Speaker 1: many people they had actually stolen from. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: the Old West because they've even gotten involved in poaching

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Speaker 1: and cattle rustling. You can have sympathy for somebody, but

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Speaker 1: when you take part in killing eight people, sorry, that

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Speaker 1: all goes out the window. This is the piped and

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Speaker 1: Massacre Return to Pike County season four, episode nineteen and

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Speaker 1: takes the stand. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at

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Speaker 1: Kat's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's important

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Speaker 1: to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not

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Speaker 1: guilty and maintained he did not kill anyone. His father,

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Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not

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Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. We've heard testimony from Jake Wagner

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Speaker 1: about his role in the crimes against the Rodin, Manly

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Speaker 1: and Gilly families. Today we're hearing from another pivotal witness

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Speaker 1: for the prosecution and accused Giller comes face to face

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Speaker 1: with his mother for the first time since both were

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Speaker 1: arrested four years ago. Yours today heard from both boys mother,

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Speaker 1: Angela Wagner, looking somewhat frail and wearing a drab jail uniform.

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Speaker 1: The fifty two year old Wagner took the stand around

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Speaker 1: ten fifteen this morning. Wearing a drab black and white

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Speaker 1: jail uniform. Angela Wagner walks into the courtroom. James Pilcher,

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Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter from Cincinnati now with Local twelve, was

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Speaker 1: there when Angela arrived at court, so one thing that

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Speaker 1: her appearance was much different than in the past. Her

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Speaker 1: hair was much longer. One of the other interesting details

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Speaker 1: is that she was shackled much like her son was,

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Speaker 1: but the change were much lighter, so they made a

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Speaker 1: much different noise on the floor as she walked by.

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Speaker 1: It was more like a clink clink, clink, rather than

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Speaker 1: clank clank clank. Here Stephanie, who was also in the

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Speaker 1: courtroom during Angela Wagner's testimony. You can literally hear her

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Speaker 1: with her shackles coming down the hallway, which was such

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Speaker 1: an eerie sound. James Pilcher describes the atmosphere in the

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Speaker 1: courtroom that day. The courtroom, you could have heard a

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Speaker 1: pin drop, Jake, It wasn't like that. But when we're

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Speaker 1: waiting for Angela, for the mother of the suspect who's

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Speaker 1: on trial, it was deathly quiet because everybody has always

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Speaker 1: thought that she was the mastermind behind all of this,

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Speaker 1: and I think that was one thing that they were

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Speaker 1: anticipating coming out. And there was also the tension of

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Speaker 1: knowing a mother and her son were going to see

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Speaker 1: each other for the first time with her testifying against him.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot of tension and very very

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Speaker 1: quiet in that courtroom when we're waiting for her to

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Speaker 1: take the stand. When she sat down, she didn't even

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Speaker 1: look at George, and George pretty much looked like he

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Speaker 1: had his eyes down the entire time. Angela Wagner chose

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Speaker 1: to opt out of having her testimony recorded. Therefore, the

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Speaker 1: only people who heard her testimony were the jury, the judge,

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Speaker 1: the respective attorneys, and the family and media that were

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Speaker 1: present in the courtroom. Here's Jeff speaking with Annette Levy,

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter and host for Law and Crime. They opted

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Speaker 1: out because they could. I thought it was completely ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: You're a cooperating witness, you're convicted. You should be forced

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Speaker 1: to get up there and face the music on camera,

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Speaker 1: be recorded. All of these Roaden family members got up

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Speaker 1: there and bared their souls and were recorded, And you know,

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Speaker 1: why shouldn't he and Angela have to do the same.

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Speaker 1: Does the jury know who opts in and opts out? No?

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Speaker 1: I don't believe so, because the bailiff would go over

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Speaker 1: and tell the photographer or tell members of the media

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Speaker 1: who opted and who opted out. Here's forensic medical examiner

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. It's so very easy to forget the Rodents,

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Speaker 1: and I guess on a spiritual level, since this all

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Speaker 1: kind of kicked off, I've always imagined every single member

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Speaker 1: of that family in a spiritual form, sitting on the

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Speaker 1: front row watching seeing if they're going to receive any

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Speaker 1: level of justice, and this is part of that justice.

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Speaker 1: These people, these poor poor victims, they deserve to have

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Speaker 1: each individual story told when it comes to their deaths.

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Speaker 1: This is a mass murder. You know their lives ended

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Speaker 1: it at the end of the muzzle of the weapon

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Speaker 1: and cut short every single one of them, every singer.

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Speaker 1: They still be here with today. I have no doubt,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they deserve their due. Prosecutor Angiekineppa begins

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Speaker 1: her opening remarks for the day. We said that if

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Speaker 1: anyone else came forward and could tell us something that

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Speaker 1: was consistent with what we had just heard, that would

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Speaker 1: do two things for us, and it would just be

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Speaker 1: stronger corroborating evidence that another member of the Wagner family

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Speaker 1: was giving us the same information without knowing exactly what

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Speaker 1: Jake had said, right, And that person that came forward

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Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner. Kneppa comes right out of the gate

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Speaker 1: with the question everyone has been wondering about. One thing

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Speaker 1: that really stuck out to me was they approached her

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Speaker 1: much differently than they did Jake. At the very very beginning,

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Speaker 1: at the very opening of her testimony, they ask a

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Speaker 1: point blank, are you guilty of taking part in these murders? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Did you help plan them? Yes? Did you help prepare

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Speaker 1: for it? Yes? Did you aid in a bet? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Who else took part? My husband, Billy, my son is George,

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Speaker 1: and Jacob, So suffice it to say, all four of

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Speaker 1: you were involved in these homicides that night. Yes, she

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Speaker 1: was at point blank, are you guilty of aggravated murder?

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Speaker 1: She said, yes, we all are. That was a really

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Speaker 1: key moment. Here's Mike Allen, attorney and legal analyst who's

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Speaker 1: been following the case from the beginning. I think the

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Speaker 1: fact that Angie Kneppa asked the question are you guilty

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Speaker 1: and the answer from Angela was yes, That's a big

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Speaker 1: part of her testimony, and I think just getting that

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Speaker 1: out upfront lets the jury know that, you know, she's

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Speaker 1: not messing around here. She's admitting to her involvement in it.

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Speaker 1: Not necessarily fire on any weapons, but she was in

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Speaker 1: it up to her neck and that was established early

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Speaker 1: on in her testimony. Special Prosecute Kneppa asked Angela Wagner

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Speaker 1: about her childhood here again Stephanie. Angela said, this is

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Speaker 1: the first time I had heard this. She has sort

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Speaker 1: of this messy relationship with her own father because she

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Speaker 1: was feuding with him a bit about having sex. Then

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Speaker 1: she goes to the military and is sexually assaulted, leaves

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Speaker 1: there and gets married very quickly with Billy and she

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Speaker 1: speaks of frankly Billy and her grandbabies and her sons

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Speaker 1: in a very loving manner. You know, she's really presenting

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Speaker 1: today as a sweet, loving mother. On the stand, Angela

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Speaker 1: isn't quite what we expected. She's soft spoken and as

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Speaker 1: a bit of a baby talker, and instantly I was

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Speaker 1: expecting a much bigger presence. Here's Jeff and Angeinette. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of that? Do you think that's an

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Speaker 1: act or do you think that's she's kind of changed

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Speaker 1: in jail. I think she was probably a nervous bee,

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to be there. She may be feeling badly

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Speaker 1: about throwing her son under the bus, implicating him in

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Speaker 1: these homicides. But at the same time, I think that

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Speaker 1: she's a master manipulator. I think she's good at playing

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Speaker 1: a role when she has to. So you don't really

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Speaker 1: buy it. I mean, I don't buy the meat mild

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Speaker 1: mannered part of it. I think maybe in that instance

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Speaker 1: that was her, but she's just quiet and soft spoken. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: that's not what we've heard from Angela Wagner on the wiretaps,

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Speaker 1: or what we heard about Angela Wagner from Tabitha's testimony.

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Speaker 1: Or Elizabeth Armer's testimony. As we've talked about incessantly, she's

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Speaker 1: been this monster in our minds and certainly in mind.

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Speaker 1: This is the big bad wolf, right this is her

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Speaker 1: day in court, and this is the monster we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about, and we know that is true. She's admitted it.

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Speaker 1: We've heard helpless stories about it. I'm told it's coming.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see the crack in her very soon.

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Speaker 1: But right now, it's kind of like watching a movie

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Speaker 1: in a way. It's almost as though, what's that movie?

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Speaker 1: Primal Fear? And Edward Norton has sort of an interesting dialect,

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Speaker 1: and he has mannerisms that are very specific, and then

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Speaker 1: at the very end, when he's proven to be innocent,

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Speaker 1: then you find out that he's Ah, I was lying

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Speaker 1: the whole time, and he doesn't have an accent. He

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Speaker 1: was just pretending to be this completely different person. And

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Speaker 1: it feels like she's that right now. And I have

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's very believable. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've been tracking this case so closely, and then you

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Speaker 1: look at jurors and you have to hope they're not

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Speaker 1: buying it. Here again, James Filcher, the juxtaposition between what

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Speaker 1: you heard on tape and what she presented in person

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Speaker 1: was much much different, much more low key, much calmer,

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Speaker 1: much more me As for her demeanor, again, she's there

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Speaker 1: to save her life but also the lives of her

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Speaker 1: family as part of her plea deal, So she obviously

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Speaker 1: is going to be on her best behavior. So I

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Speaker 1: think that was part of it. But I also think

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Speaker 1: part of it she was probably on her meds and

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Speaker 1: she admitted that. During cross examination, Prosecutor Kaneppa asked Angela

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Speaker 1: Wagner about when Jake and George were children. Wagner testifies

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Speaker 1: that she didn't think George and Jake were getting the

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Speaker 1: one on one attention they needed at public school, so

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Speaker 1: she and Billy decided to homeschool them, and they began

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Speaker 1: by interrogating her about how she raised Jake and George,

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Speaker 1: explaining that she homeschooled them both until high school while

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Speaker 1: their father, Billy Wagner, allegedly taught them how to steal

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Speaker 1: from trucks and trailers. There's obviously a lack of socialization there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these kids were raised and when I say kids,

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Speaker 1: Jake and George and this kind of upbringing where they

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Speaker 1: were homeschooled and didn't really have a lot of exposure

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Speaker 1: to the outside world. Of course, they knew people outside

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Speaker 1: of their family, but not many. They didn't really have

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends outside of you know, people who

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Speaker 1: worked at the Flying w and things like that. So

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a quote unquote normal childhood. And there's

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Speaker 1: questions about the curriculum. They were taught that they needed

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Speaker 1: to be deferential and polite, not to act up things

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Speaker 1: like that, but it was almost in a way that

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Speaker 1: they were taught these things so that they could get

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Speaker 1: away with crimes and not necessarily so they could be

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Speaker 1: good human beings. We heard about some of this education

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Speaker 1: in Jake's testimony. Angela Wagner's testimony expands it on the

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Speaker 1: family dynamic. She speaks about how the family would set

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Speaker 1: fires to their properties and file insurance claims. That was

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Speaker 1: one thing that the prosecution did too, and they did

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Speaker 1: it with Jake, but they did it more with Angela,

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Speaker 1: and that is they clearly laid out how Angela was

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Speaker 1: involved and planned several criminal acts leading up to all

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Speaker 1: of this, including the arsons. They rebuilt the house again

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Speaker 1: up there on Frederica's property and Fredrikas said, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to sell the property and you're not going to

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Speaker 1: really be compensated for the house. And at that point

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Speaker 1: Angela said, I don't want anybody to live in this

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Speaker 1: dreamhouse that we built with our own bare hands. So

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Speaker 1: they burned it down for the insurance money, and they

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Speaker 1: walked through all of that. It's interesting because the way

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Speaker 1: Kanneppa did this was chronological, and Angela's towards the end

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Speaker 1: of this trial, and so it's almost like she's confirming

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Speaker 1: all the things that we've heard. They talked about the insurance,

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Speaker 1: the fires, all of these pieces that we've heard about.

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Speaker 1: Angela is like, yes, that happened, Yes, that happened, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that happened. What do you make of that? I think

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Speaker 1: miss Caneppa was doing that on purpose to show that

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Speaker 1: the testimony, Angela's testimony god with the fish call evidence

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Speaker 1: in the case. And I think it was a good

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Speaker 1: strategy because it did line up in her testimony, I

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Speaker 1: mean pretty solidly. So I think that was a good strategy.

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Speaker 1: And again, as I said, I think Angela came off

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Speaker 1: as pretty credible. The defense lean did on these planned

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Speaker 1: arsons during cross examination. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Stephanie.

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Speaker 1: The defense started its cross examination by leaning into Angela's

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Speaker 1: previous criminal acts, including arsons for insurance money, shoplifting, and

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Speaker 1: helping steal diesel fuel and truckloads of goods. I think

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Speaker 1: it is going to prove to be very relevant. They're

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Speaker 1: painting a picture of her, although she was very sweet

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Speaker 1: and cute all day. At the very end cross examination happened,

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Speaker 1: and that was a jaw dropper because George's defense attorney

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Speaker 1: puts on a pretty good display and kind of talked

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Speaker 1: us through Angela's early years and then they start getting

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Speaker 1: into where she lives and how they ended up at

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Speaker 1: the house in the end that she lived, which was Pugs.

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Speaker 1: What he was painting the picture for was that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she has in fact burned down by arson. Three houses.

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Speaker 1: She had to admit to that today in the court

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Speaker 1: of law. He was like, this house was very expensive.

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Speaker 1: How did you get the money for this house? Oh? Wait,

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Speaker 1: get into the house before this house. What happened to

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Speaker 1: that house? Oh, it burnt down, But how did you

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Speaker 1: get the money for that house? Oh? The house before that,

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Speaker 1: Oh that one burned down. So three houses and I

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Speaker 1: think a garage all burnt down. You got insurance money

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Speaker 1: for all of them. On cross examination, the defense asks

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Speaker 1: Angela Wagner if Jake and George were involved in the arsons.

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Speaker 1: Angela's response, yes, but who gives a damn? By the way,

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Speaker 1: when all these arsens were happening, George was one time

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Speaker 1: he was sixteen, one time George was fifteen. Like George

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Speaker 1: was in the home during these shenanigans. Angela also testified

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Speaker 1: about other crimes she's committed with Billy in front of

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Speaker 1: the boys, including pill running. Prosecutor Canepa asks Angela Wagner

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Speaker 1: if she's ever stolen fuel, before Angela responds yes, she

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Speaker 1: was the lookout. Angela also testified that Billy taught the

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Speaker 1: boys how to safe in fuel. I think that they

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Speaker 1: see themselves as engaging in justifiable outlawry if you will

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Speaker 1: that you know the government is all bad. We're really

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Speaker 1: representative of the working people you know here in this community.

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Speaker 1: You know it's cliche, but you know our family has

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Speaker 1: been here for generations. We know we don't know what

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Speaker 1: the real story is here. We know that you're not

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Speaker 1: going to get ahead in this world and this hardscrave

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Speaker 1: of life that we're leading. You're not going to get

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Speaker 1: ahead in this world unless you you steal, going to

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Speaker 1: some hard working families home or the farm and robbing

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Speaker 1: them or burglarizing and taking what is not that and

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Speaker 1: being able to justify that. It's you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: real Lord of the Flies moment and its survival of

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Speaker 1: the fittest. And they had done that. You know, Lord

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Speaker 1: knows how many people they had actually stolen from in

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Speaker 1: that community. You know, you you think about things just uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, two by fours and wood paneling and you know,

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Speaker 1: going out to job sites and essentially robbing hard working

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Speaker 1: people of the things that they need to get by on.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like the Old West because they've even gotten

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Speaker 1: involved in poaching and cattle rustling of all things, you know,

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Speaker 1: student livestock. So that's an operation. That's that's not a

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Speaker 1: one man operation, is it. That's that's that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of work. It's not like little old Jake is just

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Speaker 1: running around doing all of this stuff with his crazy father.

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Speaker 1: You've got to have multiple hands on the wheel here.

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Speaker 1: And I think that you know, this goes to George

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Speaker 1: and this this steevery this, you know, nefarious behaviors it's

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Speaker 1: like a virus. I think that just it spreads like

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Speaker 1: wildfire through a family because you know, it's the children

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Speaker 1: bear witnessed it when they're growing up in the home,

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Speaker 1: and they know that this is just part of life,

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Speaker 1: that they're involved in it, and you know what, it

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Speaker 1: was probably normal for them to go and take food

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Speaker 1: out of people's mouths. There's a question of whether this

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Speaker 1: kind of testimony about Jake and George's upbringing is making

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Speaker 1: them sympathetic to the jury here again Joseph Morgan, followed

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Speaker 1: by Antinette Levy. For George a point in his life

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Speaker 1: that he was at he was still going to be

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Speaker 1: bullied by Billy and potentially by Angela as well. I

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Speaker 1: think Angela is probably chief among centers here. He just

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Speaker 1: couldn't get out of his own way. And so I

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Speaker 1: guess if the jury can take away some bit of

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Speaker 1: sympathy for George as he's you know, he's on trial

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Speaker 1: there in the courthouse, I guess that's that's probably where

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Speaker 1: it would come from. There may have been a little

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Speaker 1: bit of sympathy, but I don't think there was a

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Speaker 1: whole lot. I mean, you can have sympathy for some

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Speaker 1: but when you take part in killing eight people. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that all goes out the window. It might be an explanation,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't excuse it. We're going to take a break.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. The prosecution asks Angela

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Speaker 1: about her relationship with her daughter in laws. We've heard

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Speaker 1: in previous testimony how George's ex wife, Tabitha was essentially

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Speaker 1: cut off from her child by the Wagner family. We've

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Speaker 1: also heard about how Angela claimed to love Hannah May

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Speaker 1: Roden like a daughter, but there was friction over custody

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00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 1: of the child she shared with Jake. We've spoken before

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Speaker 1: about how Angela wanted to spy on Hannah Roden's Facebook activity.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor Kanepa asked how she got access to her passwords

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Speaker 1: to monitor Facebook. According to Angela, she asked Jake and

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Speaker 1: he gave it to her. Joseph Scott Morgan, she controlled everything. Now,

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Speaker 1: you controlled everything, even now to the relationships that you

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Speaker 1: know that she had, that her sons had, you know,

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Speaker 1: outside the home, you know, with with these women that

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Speaker 1: came into their lives, and when you're in a position

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Speaker 1: of power where you can control people to the point

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Speaker 1: where their romantic interest is trumped by your ability to

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Speaker 1: manipulate them where you would be willing to, you know,

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Speaker 1: at her direction, compel your lovers to give over passwords

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Speaker 1: and access. Just that one point alone is really eye catching.

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Speaker 1: Angela used this access to social media to share screenshots

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Speaker 1: about custody of her granddaughter with the family. She was

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Speaker 1: also trying to get information on Tabitha, George Wagner's ex wife.

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Speaker 1: This is not what she said, but she's intimating that.

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Speaker 1: She says, protecting her boys away from these bad girls. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: he's a reminder of what Angela Wagner said when she

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Speaker 1: was recorded by the b CI at the Canadian border.

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Speaker 1: So your relationship with Hannah was good. Now I thought

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Speaker 1: she was a school wreck, but I thought she was

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Speaker 1: a school rap because she really was. I mean, no offense,

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Speaker 1: but she was her dad that ever get away with

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Speaker 1: every name and I'll want She would give me looks,

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Speaker 1: and she was narrow, and she would tell Jacob was

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Speaker 1: being mean, and you know, but that's typical teenager. They

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00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: are all typical. Sometimes mother in laws and yep, time

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Speaker 1: and time again, Wagner would bring it back to how

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Speaker 1: her family was everything to her and informed everything she

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Speaker 1: did but the prosecution brings up an incident with Tabitha

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Speaker 1: that we haven't heard about before. Here's Jeff speaking with

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Speaker 1: Long Crimes Anjeannette Levy. She also said some weird things

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Speaker 1: about Tabby. Angie Kineppa asked her about Tabby and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, did Tabby ever try to poison you or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. She's like, yes, and she was just

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Speaker 1: adamant about it, just like Jake was adamant like about

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Speaker 1: certain things. She said. She described how Tabby one time

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Speaker 1: put dog hair in her coffee, and she and Jake

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Speaker 1: liked a particular type of vanilla coffee, and she said

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Speaker 1: she had her coffee cup one time and Tabby had

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Speaker 1: made this cup for her and she looked at it

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Speaker 1: and she, you know, she's she said, Jake, is there

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Speaker 1: there's dog hair in this coffee. And she was serious

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Speaker 1: as could be, and she said Tabby was laughing about it.

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Speaker 1: And she described another time where Tabby had made some

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Speaker 1: kool aid for George that he liked and he got

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Speaker 1: really sick. So she has these like things that she

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Speaker 1: kind of comes up with. The dog hair in the

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00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: coffee thing was just astounding to me. She truly believed

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Speaker 1: that I don't know if it actually happened. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine somebody putting dog hair in somebody's coffee. Just seems

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00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: like such a strange thing. But if they believe it,

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00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: it's gospel. This belief in the untrue and the ability

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00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: to convince her family of it, is one of Angela's strengths.

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Speaker 1: According to forensic examiner Joseph Morgan, you know, you think

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Speaker 1: about Billy, and you know Billy's they're teaching young Jake

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Speaker 1: how to hot wire car and sealing it. Well, she's

365
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Speaker 1: doing the same thing. It's justifiable for you to betray

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Speaker 1: somebody that you claim to love if it's for the

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00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: greater good of the family and so. And it's amazing

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Speaker 1: how you can psychologically leverage somebody with information like that,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? Where you can be the driver that you

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Speaker 1: have this in dwelling in inertia, you know that carries

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Speaker 1: over to the family, push them in the direction which

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Speaker 1: you so desired. It was one belief in particular that

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Speaker 1: Angela held that helped set in motion the events that

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Speaker 1: led to the murder of the Rodent, Manly and Gilly families.

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Speaker 1: Angela testified she became worried her granddaughter was being abused

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Speaker 1: while staying with the Rodent family. She said, quote, I

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Speaker 1: realized something was happening, some kind of abuse was going

378
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: on that needed to be stopped. Angela Wager was asked

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Speaker 1: if she loved Handah. She said, yes, I did at

380
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Speaker 1: one point, but issues made me feel like was being

381
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: sexually abused. Angela said she became concerned over signs of

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00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: abuse and claims that her grandchild would often appear reluctant

383
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Speaker 1: to leave and return to Hannah since they had shared custody.

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Speaker 1: James Pilcher here's her direct quote. She said, I realized

385
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Speaker 1: something was happening, some kind of abuse was going on

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Speaker 1: that needed to be stopped, and she said she didn't

387
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: trust child services or the law or law enforcement that

388
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: needed did her husband, Billy. We've already established that Billy

389
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: was a doomsday er. Billy hated police, Billy paid his

390
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: kids to spot police. Billy taught his kids how to

391
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: be thieves. So this all set into it. Although Angela

392
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: didn't want to kill him, it was some of the

393
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: ways she would answer. She was like, well, why did

394
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Speaker 1: you do this? Well, we were protecting her, and she

395
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: almost appeared like she was in a frog on the stand.

396
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: But then when it got to that, it was almost

397
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: like she was razor white hot when she would talk

398
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: about protecting that little girl. And then they talked about

399
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: Angela's past in the Air Force and all of this

400
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: surrounding ever present fear of sexual abuse, and it became

401
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: almost a paranoia and you could see it in display

402
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: clearly when she started talking about that. So the lead

403
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: reasoning has been that she felt as though it was

404
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: being sexually molested or was going to be sexually molested,

405
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: not that there's ever been proof of that, but that

406
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: was the reasoning, and that at some point she noticed

407
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: that Frankie Roden kissed on the lips saying goodbye, and

408
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: that felt a little strange. In fact, she actually says

409
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: that told her mother, Rita Nukom, who at the time

410
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: was living next door to her with her grandmother, that

411
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: she was being touched inappropriately, and then Rita Neukom repeated

412
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: that to Angela, and then Angela repeated it to Jake

413
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: and the entire family, George and Billy. At that point

414
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: when Jake found out about it, rather than talking about

415
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: it with the Rodents or anything, they just started putting

416
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: this plan together to protect her, and she had to

417
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: protect the babies. But apparently Angela Wagner's assertions of abuse

418
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: were not based in reality. This fear that the little

419
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: girl would be molested. The prosecution basically says that was

420
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: something they kind of whipped up in their heads to

421
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: justify what they wanted to do. They are entitled and

422
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: feel that this children should be with them and no

423
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: one else. There is no doubt that this family wanted

424
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: those kids to be one hundred percent Wagoner, and that's

425
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: what this is all about. They had convinced themselves there

426
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: may have been some abuse, but that was basically window

427
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: dressing for their their belief that these kids should belong

428
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: to them, regardless of any actual evidence of abuse. The

429
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: idea had been planted in the minds of the Wagner family,

430
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: and Angela stoked the fire. I think that she's probably

431
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: arguably the smartest one in the crew, and the reason

432
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: I think that that's quite ominous. I think she knew

433
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: what buttons to press with all three of these men

434
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: in her life. You know, she's probably known how to

435
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: control them their entire lives, or at least that portion

436
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: of Billy's life that he was with her. She knew,

437
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, where to press, how far she could go

438
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: to attain her goals, if you will, in any of

439
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: this and anything that she set her mind to doing.

440
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: And you know, she wanted to be be the head hancho,

441
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: you know, in the family, and she was. She told

442
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: Drors she suspected the Rodents were abusing, did not take

443
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: her to the doctor. Said we didn't believe in the

444
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: justice system, didn't believe in children's services, she said. By

445
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: January twenty sixteen, her husband started coming up with the

446
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: plan they had to be murdered. She said. She went

447
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: to her husband, Billy, with her concerns, saying she wanted

448
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: to turn in Chris Rodent Senior for growing marijuana. Billy

449
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: nixed that, coming up with an alternate plan. She said, quote.

450
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: The plan was they needed to be murdered. Later, she said,

451
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: her husband told the entire family quote, this was going

452
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: to change everything. According to Angelo Agnes's testimony, Billy came

453
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: up with the plan for murder. Billy ultimately decided that

454
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: the only way was to kill Hannah, and that they

455
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: couldn't stop short of killing Hannah Rodin, the mother of

456
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: but they would have to kill Chris Rodin Senior because

457
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: he ultimately exercise control over Hannah Rodin and the Roden family,

458
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: and that other witnesses, other members of the Roden family

459
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: would have to be killed for it to be successful.

460
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: That's essentially what Angela testified, and that really was Billy

461
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: who was the driver here. Angela wanted to turn Chris

462
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: Senior in for his marijuana and then that would get

463
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: the family in trouble, and therefore maybe Jake would get

464
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: more visitation rights or more control over the fate of

465
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: his daughter and her granddaughter. Well, of course that cut

466
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: too close for home for Billy, because Billy had been

467
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: in business with Chris. Chris Senior had tried to teach

468
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: Billy how to grow marijuana. And then so she says,

469
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Billy came up with this alternate plan. Here's the quote quote.

470
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: The plan was they needed to be murdered. Yeah, and

471
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: then it progressed from there that, Okay, we're gonna start

472
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: talking about how we're gonna do it. And she said

473
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: that they would actually have conversations with the water running

474
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: or outside in the car port, with the car running,

475
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: without the TVs on, with no phones around, because they're

476
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: so paranoid of being overheard. During one of these meetings

477
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: with George and Jake Wagner in the kitchen, Angela asked

478
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: her sons if they wanted to go through with them.

479
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: According to Angela, they said yes. Joseph Morgan says that

480
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: the accusation of molestation would get the rest of the

481
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: Wagner family to do what Angela wanted. She was the

482
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: person that had the thirty thousand foot view of the

483
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: entire family. She saw where all the weaknesses were, she

484
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: saw where the strengths were, and she knew what the

485
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: goal was in order to win, you know. And I

486
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: think that her endgame has always been to have, you know,

487
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: total control over the Wagner family. And you know, she

488
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: was going to be She's a Rutter own ship. She's

489
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: she's the master of the ship as well, and all

490
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: of these people are there to do her bidding. And

491
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, Billy may have had this thought at a

492
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: real primal level. I think that he needed to take

493
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: care of the roads. But it was, in my opinion,

494
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: at least it was an Angela that was overlording all

495
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: of this all the way along. In episode four thirteen,

496
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: we saw evidence of how Angela manipulated Billy through text messages.

497
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: I am moving on. You are more than one to

498
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: come bring babies and come on, Angela, well, they are

499
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: not our babies. And I would never do that to

500
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: George and Jake. I would have killed someone if they

501
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: would have even mentioned going away with my babies. And

502
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: if you really missed me, you would do anything or

503
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: go through anything for me. Billy. It's a fine mess, Angela. Well,

504
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: maybe it is worth you helping me work it out, Billy.

505
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: I got a plan if you just take one damn

506
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: minute and listen, Angela. Okay, tell me, Billy when I

507
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: see you. This is the last time I am going

508
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: to try. If the three of you don't take time

509
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: to listen to me, then oh well, Angela, okay. Joseph Morgan,

510
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: isn't it amazing I find you know? And Angela is

511
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: certainly a fine example of this. It's very easy for

512
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: her to rationalize justify her actions. She doesn't necessarily do

513
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: in court, but the lead up to it, when she's

514
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: the driver behind all this, is that she's looking out

515
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: for the greater good of the family. You know, it's

516
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: the winomen The women are all women of ill repute.

517
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: The kids that she does not have in her immediate control,

518
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: run the risk of being sexually molested, that she needs

519
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: to be one to provide watchcare, and the family has

520
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: to watch over them at all time. The rest of

521
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: the world is evil, We're the ones that are right.

522
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: And isn't that interesting how her worldview kind of parallels

523
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: that of Billy's. While Angela testified it wasn't her idea

524
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: to murder the rudents, she did admit to helping plan

525
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: the crimes. Now. While on the stand, Angela Wagner admitted

526
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: to him staying at home on the night of the murders,

527
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: but said she helped her sons and husband prepare for them.

528
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: Here's Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa laying out what Angela Wagner bought

529
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: to prepare for the murders. She admits to buying the

530
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: shoes for her sons. We show Jake at least his

531
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: awards card being used to buy seven sixty nine thirty

532
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: two Hammo and a magazine for a SKS. Also in April,

533
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: there was a phone jammer purchased by Angela. A phone

534
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: jammer jams signals for phones, So say you're gonna go

535
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: murder eight people and you don't want them to be

536
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: able to call for help. Then you have a phone

537
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: jammer on your person and it jams the signals. But

538
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: that was purchased, and a bug detector was purchased by Angela.

539
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: The financial records also just confirm what we already knew,

540
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: which was they function as one unit and pretty much

541
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: everything they do financially is no exception. Angela said that

542
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: Billy came to her with this idea that they discussed

543
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: it outside in this area of you know, like carport

544
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: type area, and I'm trying to like envision where exactly

545
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: that would be. But they were outside the home on

546
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: Peterson Road, and Billy came up with us and then

547
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: she said, you know that they include did the boys.

548
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: But she said she didn't go along. She did order things.

549
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: She ordered what Billy told her to order. She said,

550
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: Jake told her to go buy the Walmart shoes, and

551
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: so she did. And you know, it was just kind

552
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: of like she was the shopper almost. That is what

553
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: it sounds like. Billy took care, I guess of everything else,

554
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: and the boys took care of everything else. So you know,

555
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like she was kind of throwing it all

556
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: on Billy. Let's stop here for another break. According to

557
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: Angela's testimony, Billy said they needed a vehicle for the murders.

558
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: Angela told George to get five thousand dollars out of

559
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: their safe and use that to purchase the truck that

560
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: would be used the night of the murders. Here's Stephanie.

561
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: She was definitely saying it as though this was Billy

562
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: and Jake and Origes plan. And yes, she was kind

563
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: of going through the paces to stick to their story.

564
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: And yes she went and she bought the stuff, and

565
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: the shoes were something that she actually purchased. Quite obviously.

566
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: They have her on camera doing it, so on the

567
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: one hand, she's sort of just a bystander to it,

568
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: and to this day claims she doesn't know the nightly details.

569
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: Angela testifies that prior to the murders, Billy came over

570
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: one night and was telling everyone, quote, come on, come on,

571
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: but apparently nobody listened, and so Billy got mad and left.

572
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: Nobody was moving fast enough, but the next day Billy

573
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: Wagner came back. He told them to get ready. Prosecutor

574
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: Kanepa asks if Angela Kneu who was going to do

575
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: the killings. Angela's response, No, I didn't ask and I

576
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: wasn't told about the murder. To this day, she doesn't

577
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: know the details of what happened that night because they've

578
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: never told her and Billy never told her. All she

579
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: knows is what the plan was, that she had to

580
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: keep the phones and that at a certain time she

581
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: would send out a text as she was supposed to

582
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: to kind of place the phones at the house. When Billy, Jake,

583
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: and George left for the road and households, Angela claims

584
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: she was conflicted. Angela testified about the actual day of

585
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: the murders, saying she saw Jake, George, and Billy Wagner

586
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: leave that evening. She said she was overwhelmed with emotion

587
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: after they left, fearing they might not come back or

588
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: even what might happen. Angel also testified she thought about

589
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: racing after them to stop them, but realized it was

590
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: too late. Jeff and Angeanette Levy. This is according to her,

591
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: She stayed home that night. It was just really interesting

592
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: to me because she did her part. And then she

593
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: said she had taken an ivy profen so she felt

594
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: and then she fell asleep, So you know, she fell

595
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: asleep as they went on this horrific mission to kill people,

596
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: even though she said she felt bad about it and thought, oh,

597
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: I wonder if I could stop it. But you know, oh,

598
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: but I had the kids here, so she didn't take

599
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: any steps to stop it. Do you buy that at all?

600
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I think she might have had some misgivings,

601
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: but no, I find it hard to believe that. Your

602
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: excuse is, oh, well, I'm home with the kids, so

603
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: I can't stop them from going and killing eight people

604
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: or even one person. I mean, come on, if she

605
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: wanted to stop it, she could have stopped it. As

606
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: news coverage shows, the horrific events of the night unfolded

607
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: as the Wagoners had planned. The night of the homicide,

608
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: she said, the three Wagner men left the house together,

609
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: returned together the next morning. She did not know who

610
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: did the shooting, did not want the details. That night,

611
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: eight members of the Rodent, Manly, and Gilly families were murdered.

612
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: Angela testifies that the next day she heard about the

613
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: murders on the news. Yes, George Wagner's mom did say

614
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: today that while she knew what was going to happen

615
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: six years ago. The homicide still shocked her. She remembers

616
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: asking her husband Billy why so many victims? His response quote,

617
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: because they were there. During cross examination of Angela Wagner,

618
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: an attorney for her son George, keat on two themes,

619
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: Angela's lies and her paranoia. The defense team's goal is

620
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: to cast blame for the twenty sixteen Pike County massacre

621
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: on Angela, her husband Billy, and George's brother Jake, not

622
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: the man on trial for murder. We've heard so much

623
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: about her, you know, We've talked about her for years,

624
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: and she's been kind of like the center of all

625
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: of this, and this is the culmination of all that.

626
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: I mean, what's your take on hearing it straight from

627
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: her mouth finally? Well, I mean it's shocking to hear

628
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: it really is. More on that next time. For more

629
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on

630
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: Instagram at Kati Underscore Studios. The Pikeon Maskers produced by

631
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnou, Gabriel Castillo,

632
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi.

633
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Didmasacar is a production

634
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from

635
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

636
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome

637
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: Markite County Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord, I just thank you

638
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 1: for bringing us all together as a community. Okay, hodd

639
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: all over the house? Who could have killed eight family

640
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Speaker 1: members in one nine? I lost my best friends and

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Speaker 1: I will never be the same because of that day.

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Speaker 1: Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left

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Speaker 1: those children laying in their mother's blood. The word that

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Speaker 1: comes to mind is overkilled. Who was the master mind,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you is a framer. I'm not fitting in prison.

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Speaker 1: One thing I learned. The smaller the town, the bigger

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Speaker 1: the sacreds. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The

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Speaker 1: Pike County Murders of Family Massacre, premiering on NBC Universal's

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Speaker 1: Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day

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Speaker 1: weekend November twenty fourth and November twenty fifth. Please check

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Speaker 1: your local listings and our hearts are with the Rodents

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Speaker 1: and the Gilly families,