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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, Jamie here. You'll notice there are is not

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Speaker 2: a new.

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Speaker 1: Episode this week. It is because I am so sick.

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Speaker 1: I have COVID so bad.

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Speaker 2: So instead of the Hawk Tua series starting this week,

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Speaker 2: is going to start next week. I think it's going

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Speaker 2: to be worth the wait. I have watched every second

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Speaker 2: of talk to and I just am excited for you

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Speaker 2: to hear it. But I need a little time to recover.

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Speaker 2: So with that in mind, we're going to be re

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Speaker 2: airing the winner of your favorite episode of last year,

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Speaker 2: thirty to fifty Faral Hogs. The only other reminder I

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Speaker 2: have for you today is I will be on tour

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Portland, Oregon later this

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Speaker 2: month at full health, and the links are in the description.

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Speaker 2: I would love to see their tickets are running low

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Speaker 2: in Portland. Get years now without further ado, I'll see

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Speaker 2: you next week to Hawk To a spit on that discourse.

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Speaker 2: But this week, let's revisit the Hogs. By Nine years ago,

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Speaker 2: someone very close to me died, and shortly after that,

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Speaker 2: something very funny happened. The person in question was old,

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Speaker 2: but not dying. Old had been sick, but was not

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Speaker 2: dying sick. Someone about to die wouldn't be a night

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Speaker 2: owl with an encyclopedic knowledge about SNL and professional hockey.

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Speaker 2: They just wouldn't. But then one day it was. They

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Speaker 2: died suddenly and terribly, the sort of loss where I

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Speaker 2: still find myself wanting to pick up the phone ten

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Speaker 2: years later and try to explain what a podcast is

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Speaker 2: to them. I really missed them, and it was a

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Speaker 2: huge shock at the time, and everyone was still very

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Speaker 2: in shock when the funeral happened. It had been in

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Speaker 2: this really hectic week right like no one saw it

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Speaker 2: coming or knew what sort of shape their affairs were in.

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Speaker 2: Half of us were still actively in denial. I brought

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Speaker 2: some loser I was dating to the wake.

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Speaker 1: Why did I invite him?

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Speaker 2: Why did I invite him?

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Speaker 1: It was a Catholic.

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Speaker 2: Funeral, and we were all instructed to either read something

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Speaker 2: from the Bible or just say a few words. I

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Speaker 2: hope you haven't been through this, but I know that.

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Speaker 1: You very likely have.

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Speaker 2: So the night before I said my few words, I

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Speaker 2: stayed up late drinking PBR and writing out a set,

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Speaker 2: And then I had to keep reminding myself it's not

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Speaker 2: a set it's a eulogy. A eulogy is not stand

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Speaker 2: up comedy unless.

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Speaker 1: You're really good at it.

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Speaker 2: At the service the next morning, I sat next to

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Speaker 2: someone that I'm very close with.

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Speaker 1: He had his notes for what he was going to.

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Speaker 2: Say and was pretty quiet, and before we were supposed

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Speaker 2: to go up and speak, he leaned over to me

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Speaker 2: and asked, Hey, like, should we give our Twitter handles

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Speaker 2: before we talk? Like, do you think this is a

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Speaker 2: good opportunity to get new followers on Twitter? It was

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Speaker 2: this really strange moment, you know, because something so terrible

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Speaker 2: had just happened, and then this was said. I tell

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Speaker 2: this story to people and they never laugh. But it's

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Speaker 2: the sort of thing that's like, it's almost funny, but

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Speaker 2: it's a little too weird to be an actual joke.

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Speaker 2: It's just completely absurd in this way that you can

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Speaker 2: never get.

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Speaker 1: Out of your brain. And if you were.

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Speaker 2: Asking, yes, I did read my Twitter handle, definitely don't

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Speaker 2: do that at your grandma's funeral, I said, who it

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Speaker 2: was in that moment. If something just sad was said

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Speaker 2: or something just funny was said, I probably wouldn't remember

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Speaker 2: this moment as well as I do. It's just something

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Speaker 2: in between in August twenty nineteen, many terrible things happened

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Speaker 2: on the same day in Dayton, Ohio and El Paso, Texas.

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Speaker 1: There were mass shootings.

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Speaker 2: Within hours of each other, first in El Paso, when

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Speaker 2: a white nationalist entered a walmart with a semi automatic

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Speaker 2: weapon and killed twenty three That same day, in an

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Speaker 2: entertainment district in Dayton, a man used an ar pistol

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Speaker 2: to kill nine people. And even in a country where

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Speaker 2: these types of shootings had become increasingly commonplace, according to

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three research from the Pew Research Center, and

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Speaker 2: also anecdotally from being a person, active shooter events in

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Speaker 2: the United States have steadily increased since two thousand, over

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Speaker 2: twenty times over and so on this weekend in August

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the whole world went into mourning for the

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Speaker 2: victims of these senseless, horrible shootings, and as the days

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Speaker 2: lurched on, online discourse on the many horrific questions that

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Speaker 2: the shootings introduced began, while journalists worked to report on

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Speaker 2: them as clearly and faithfully as possible. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: it involves some of the main players in this show.

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Speaker 2: The executive producer of this show, the great, Wonderful Robert Evans,

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Speaker 2: who has definitely never falsely accused me of murder, famously

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Speaker 2: reported on the il PA shooter, detailing his radicalization online

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Speaker 2: on eight Chan before he resolved to become a domestic purist,

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Speaker 2: which was a part of a disturbing trend that continued

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Speaker 2: from earlier that year, most notoriously the christ Church mosque

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Speaker 2: shooting in New Zealand. These murders, stoked by white supremacy,

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Speaker 2: had everything to do with the Internet. The Internet was

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Speaker 2: where shooters became radicalized and where they would often livestream

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Speaker 2: their own atrocities, and so after two mass shootings in

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Speaker 2: the same weekend, a familiar question emerged, how do we

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Speaker 2: stop this? What will we need to change to fucking

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Speaker 2: stop this? The days that followed restoked a debate that

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Speaker 2: raged in real life and online spaces with increasing frequency,

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Speaker 2: and Democrats put pressure on then Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell,

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Speaker 2: the Devil's pet Turtle, to cancel the Senate summer recess

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Speaker 2: to reopen a discussion on gun control. He didn't, and

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Speaker 2: so people were frustrated their leaders weren't doing anything, and

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Speaker 2: so many took to the internet as they had in

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Speaker 2: the past and hoped that saying how they felt would

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Speaker 2: accomplish something. Many demanded action on gun control. Many mourned

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Speaker 2: the victims of these shootings, and many started a familiar

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Speaker 2: discourse around the weapons that were used to slaughter people.

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Speaker 2: And among these people were public figures weighing in as

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Speaker 2: they tend to do. One was American singer songwriter Jason Ibel.

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Speaker 2: On August fourth, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: He tweeted, if you're on here arguing the definition of

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Speaker 3: assault weapon today, you are part of the problem. You

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Speaker 3: know what an assault weapon is, and you know you

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Speaker 3: don't need one.

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Speaker 1: So as the.

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Speaker 2: World mourned and tried to figure out what they could

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Speaker 2: do in a world where normal people are so often

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Speaker 2: rendered powerless, people began to yell at each other on

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Speaker 2: the Internet, and then, to everyone's surprise, something kind of

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Speaker 2: funny happened.

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Speaker 1: A Twitter user who I would describe as.

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Speaker 2: A random guy, a normal man, Willie McNabb, responded to

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Speaker 2: this tweet from Jason Isbel.

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Speaker 1: He says the following.

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Speaker 4: Legit question for rural Americans, how do I kill the three?

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Speaker 1: Stop stop stop stop stop stop stop? Yes that tweet? Okay,

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Speaker 1: grant you can finish.

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Speaker 4: Legit question for rural Americans. How do I kiell the

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Speaker 4: thirty to fifty feral hogs that run into my yard

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Speaker 4: within three to five minutes while my small kids play.

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Speaker 2: So in the absolute middle of this awful moment, people

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Speaker 2: stopped and asked, Wait, what the fuck did that guy

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Speaker 2: just say thirty to fifty feral hogs? Your sixteenth minute starts. Now, okay,

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Speaker 2: you sickos, I'll give you what you want, and what

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Speaker 2: you want is what many rural communities have been plagued by,

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Speaker 2: which is thirty to fifty feral hogs. It's feral Hogs

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Speaker 2: Day on sixteenth minute. One of our most requested main

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Speaker 2: characters bar none, and like every single one of the

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Speaker 2: internet's main characters, all thirty to fifty feral hogs come

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Speaker 2: with a lot of personal baggage. So let's throw some

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Speaker 2: feral bacon into the feral pan. But before we do it,

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Speaker 2: just one quick note in a rear showing of keeping

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Speaker 2: my mouth shut for forty minutes, I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: get into my detailed opinions on gun control at the

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Speaker 2: very top of this episode, although I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: You can guess what they are.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of guns, and that's not the

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Speaker 2: case for everyone I'm speaking with today, and each of

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Speaker 2: them are going to explain why that is. And with that,

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Speaker 2: come with me if you will to August twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: the first death from vaping is reported in Illinois. Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: Epstein is found dead in his prison cell under very

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Speaker 2: normal circumstances. I'm performing at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with

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Speaker 2: a show called Boss Whom Is Girl? In which I

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Speaker 2: play a demented girl boss hell bent on killing an

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Speaker 2: island full of DJs using surveillance technologies. Good reviews and

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Speaker 2: following two horrific massacres in the United States back to back,

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Speaker 2: a man from Arkansas named Willie McNabb asked how he

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Speaker 2: could kill the thirty to fifty faral hogs that run

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Speaker 2: into his yard within three to five minutes while his

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Speaker 2: small kids play. I'm gonna say it, this is one

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Speaker 2: of the funniest things that's ever happened on the Internet

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Speaker 2: for me, like you get it. Replying to a conversation

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Speaker 2: denouncing people who are getting overly into semantics about assault

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Speaker 2: weapons after two horrific mass shootings, with a question about

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Speaker 2: thirty to fifty faral hogs.

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Speaker 1: Is weird.

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Speaker 2: It's confusing to most people. It makes no sense. I

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Speaker 2: was one of those people. Willy McNabb, what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? Everything about the Farrell hogs tweet is so funny.

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Speaker 2: It's great American poetry. Now Here are my top five

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Speaker 2: funny things about the Farrell Hogs tweet. Your mileage may

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Speaker 2: very and I actually do encourage you to share it

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Speaker 2: with me. Number one, starting a statement about faral hogs

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Speaker 2: with the phrase legit question number two thirty two fifty.

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Speaker 2: It's such a wide range, it feels like a census

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Speaker 2: taker's question. Number three. The qualifier that the kids are small,

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Speaker 2: which kind of goes without saying right, but it feels

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Speaker 2: like it's sort of implying that fifty faral hogs would

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Speaker 2: be less threatening to larger children. Number five the tone

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Speaker 2: of the question overall, the way that Willy phrases this

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Speaker 2: makes it sound like this is something that was on

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Speaker 2: the tip of everyone's tongues, and he's the first person

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Speaker 2: brave enough to articulate what we were all thinking. Number five,

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Speaker 2: of course, the imagery a father gunning down feral hogs

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Speaker 2: like a game of Halo in your high school boyfriend's basement.

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Speaker 2: Game over the image of small kids surrounded by malevolent hogs,

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Speaker 2: the only line of defense being an assault rifle, and

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Speaker 2: between three and five minutes.

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Speaker 1: Just say four minutes.

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Speaker 2: As sad and bizarre as the circumstances that prompted this

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Speaker 2: reply tweet are, it is awesome, and it squarely puts

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Speaker 2: mister McNabb in a category of main character that was

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Speaker 2: not intentional, because again, this was just a reply. It's

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Speaker 2: like every person who replies to dunk on Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: and raise their own profile was doing it with the

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Speaker 2: expectation of becoming the most famous person on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: On top of that, the reply tweet itself isn't really accusatory.

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Speaker 2: It's just the weirdest phrasing of a question that the

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Speaker 2: person seems to genuinely be asking. And so interestingly, the

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Speaker 2: reason that Willy becomes Internet famous doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 2: the algorithm itself. It's because of Jason isbel So let's

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Speaker 2: go full for ends.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about how this happened.

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Speaker 2: Willy asks the question of our time, that of the

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Speaker 2: perilous Hall at twelve oh one pm Eastern Standard Time

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Speaker 2: on August fourth, twenty nineteen, which is the day of

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Speaker 2: the Dayton, Ohio massacre and the day after the El Paso,

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Speaker 2: Texas massacre. After the reply, Jason isbel quote tweets Willy

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Speaker 2: McNabb three minutes later at twelve oh four pm, responding

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Speaker 2: with the following Pithy's statement.

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Speaker 3: If you have dozens of hogs chasing your children around

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Speaker 3: your yard, you have problems. No weapon will fix.

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Speaker 2: He then adds at twelve oh eight pm.

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Speaker 3: I don't think William is serious, guys, and.

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Speaker 2: Willie McNabb is having none of it, he retorts at

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Speaker 2: twelve eleven pm.

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Speaker 4: No, sir, I am.

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Speaker 2: And now we as passive viewers, know that Willy McNabb

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Speaker 2: is ready to go to the mat for this. And look,

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Speaker 2: I know it sounds like I am like rehashing and

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Speaker 2: pausing the Zapruder tape, but it is significant. It is

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Speaker 2: clear ten minutes in that Willie McNabb is, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: willing to go to the mat with a public figure

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Speaker 2: on this topic. Shots had been fired, only this time

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Speaker 2: not from an assault rifle and not at a murderous pig.

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Speaker 1: But and I can.

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Speaker 2: Confirm this as someone who was observing this unfolded real time.

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Speaker 2: Very few people on Twitter seem to have any idea

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Speaker 2: what Willie is talking about, and so at first, instead

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Speaker 2: of trying to understand what he's talking about, they.

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Speaker 1: Make fun of him.

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Speaker 2: People went nuts on Twitter over this reply tweet, and

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Speaker 2: it seemed like for many this was almost a breath

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Speaker 2: of fresh air, a little bit of absurdity to joke

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Speaker 2: about while processing the horrors of the world. And we

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Speaker 2: do get some pretty solid riffs on the treacherous hog,

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Speaker 2: like these thirty to fifty Pharaoh of hogs sounds like

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Speaker 2: my dating history.

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Speaker 3: Take me down to the paradess city where the hogs

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Speaker 3: are pharrol in the thirty to.

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Speaker 2: Fifty my therapist, thirty to fifty faral hogs can't hurt you,

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Speaker 2: they aren't real.

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Speaker 1: Thirty to fifty faral.

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Speaker 2: Hogs in my yard, threatening my children, and finally my favorite.

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Speaker 5: Take a long drag for my cigarette as I stare

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Speaker 5: out of my foxhole, hollow eye at the tree line,

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Speaker 5: the distant sounds of winking coming nearer and nearer as

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Speaker 5: the sun sets, the cold steal of my ar fifteen,

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Speaker 5: the only thing that stands between those hogs and my

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Speaker 5: kids behind me.

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Speaker 2: So this reply tweet spawned news articles, podcast episodes a

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Speaker 2: flash mini game where you're playing as Willy and your

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Speaker 2: goal is to mow down as many hogs as quickly

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Speaker 2: as possible in eight bit this is as close to

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Speaker 2: a seminal main character experience as you can get, and

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Speaker 2: as a first timer to the main character game, Willie

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Speaker 2: McNabb makes what many would consider to be a rookie mistake.

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Speaker 1: He posts his way.

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Speaker 2: Through it, and while in most cases I would discourage

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Speaker 2: this behavior, all main characters, especially when it's from something

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Speaker 2: weird or innocuous as opposed to actually offensive, are advised

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Speaker 2: to acknowledge their main characterhood then either fake their own

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Speaker 2: death or start a rap career. Posting through it almost

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Speaker 2: never helps because random Twitter users also have a vested

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Speaker 2: interest in proving themselves to be the world's most normal person,

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Speaker 2: and Willie McNabb is very much caught in the middle

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Speaker 2: of it. So who is this guy? At the time

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Speaker 2: of Ferrell Hoggate. Willie's Twitter bio.

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Speaker 4: Read husband, father, Christian, libertarian, West Carolina University alum, and

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Speaker 4: fan of Pearl Jam and Red Sox.

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Speaker 1: But critically, his profile also reveals that he lives in

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Speaker 1: rural Arkansas.

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Speaker 2: Collectively, all of these things add up to he is

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Speaker 2: some guy who has decided to post through it after

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Speaker 2: Jason isbel quote tweeted him. But in this case, Willie

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Speaker 2: is posting through it is part of why this story

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Speaker 2: is so interesting. He was not going to back down,

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Speaker 2: no sir, I am. But the thing he was not

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Speaker 2: backing down on wasn't gun control.

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Speaker 1: It was feral hogs.

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Speaker 2: Willy spars against other Twitter users who connect his hog

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Speaker 2: problem and gun advocacy with his personal politics. He tweets

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Speaker 2: at twelve twenty four pm.

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Speaker 4: Funny thing about these responses. I would challenge any of

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Speaker 4: you to find on my timeline where I say I

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Speaker 4: voted for Trump. Do any of you people know what

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Speaker 4: Arkansas's mascot is. It's for a reason, and a wall

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Speaker 4: or fence over ten acres of land with a swamp

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Speaker 4: in the backside isn't feasible.

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Speaker 2: He writes again at two twenty one pm.

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Speaker 4: I'm for the First Amendment. For those that say I

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Speaker 4: should eat my kids, not have children, advocate the state

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Speaker 4: taking them away from me. The ones who are driving

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Speaker 4: by my home taking aerial photos of my house, googling

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Speaker 4: where I work, et cetera. This is why I'm for

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Speaker 4: the Second Amendment.

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Speaker 2: So at this point Willy does bring it back to

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Speaker 2: gun control because he has become the main character. He

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Speaker 2: needs a gun. Actually, in twenty nineteen, he had fully

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Speaker 2: lost me at this point, but the story somehow continues.

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Speaker 2: The next day, Jason isbel is still joking about the

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Speaker 2: hogs on Twitter, and Willie replies to him again. He

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Speaker 2: is determined to get through to Jason isbel about these hogs.

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Speaker 4: He writes, even though people have threatened my kids, taking

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Speaker 4: pics in my home, driven by my house, my job,

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Speaker 4: and threatened me, I'm still a fan of your music.

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Speaker 4: And I never said my situation was applicable to the

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Speaker 4: entire country.

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Speaker 1: It's real.

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Speaker 2: Attached to this tweet is a video entitled wild hogs

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Speaker 2: are fair game to hunt from the air in Texas.

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Speaker 6: In Texas, they're going hog wild over wild hogs. The

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Speaker 6: feral animals are causing hundreds of millions of dollars of

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Speaker 6: damage to crops across the state, and to help deal

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Speaker 6: with the problem, state lawmakers have approved the hunting of

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Speaker 6: wild hogs and coyotes from hot air balloons. People had

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Speaker 6: already been allowed to shoot the animals from helicopters, but

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Speaker 6: it was an expensive and ineffective way to deal with

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Speaker 6: the problem. Hoigher balloons apparently much better.

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Speaker 2: So in case you're five years late and have never

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Speaker 2: been to the rural South, the hog problem is real

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Speaker 2: then now, and it might be getting actively worse. Brace

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Speaker 2: yourself for some unbelievable hog facts. The current estimated population

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Speaker 2: of feral hogs in the United States is six million.

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Speaker 2: That's one feral hog for every dollar in the budget

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Speaker 2: of the movie The Room. Adult feral hogs can weigh

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Speaker 2: anywhere from seventy five to two hundred and fifty pounds.

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Speaker 2: That is, anywhere from the size of a fifth grader

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Speaker 2: to the size of a football player. That is so large,

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Speaker 2: and for my money, if thirty to fifty fal fifth

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Speaker 2: graders or NFL players are charging my small kids in

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Speaker 2: three to five minutes, I'd be scared too. Willy is

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Speaker 2: also right that these hogs are mainly in the rural South.

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Speaker 2: Most of them live in Texas, but in Arkansas, where

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Speaker 2: Willy lives, they're in all seventy five counties, and there's

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Speaker 2: about two hundred thousand of them, which, for comparison, is

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Speaker 2: close to one gigantic feral hog for every resident of

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Speaker 2: Little Rock, Arkansas. There are entire government agencies dedicated to

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Speaker 2: protecting the general public from the wrath of the hogs.

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Speaker 2: So while there's plenty to unpack in this story, before

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Speaker 2: we can talk to the faral hogs guy. Because yes,

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Speaker 2: I did talk to the faral hogs guy, I went

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Speaker 2: to maybe the authority in the US on this. John

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Speaker 2: Thomas k is an associate professor at Texas A and

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Speaker 2: M and even more to the point, he's the chair

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Speaker 2: of both the National Feral Swine Task Force and the

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Speaker 2: Texas Feral Swine Task Force. Okay, now imagine I'm doing

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Speaker 2: a pickup truck commercial.

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Speaker 1: Man knows big bigs. I had to talk to him.

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Speaker 7: I'm John Tomachek. I'm an associate professor working on wildlife damage,

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Speaker 7: wildlife disease, and carnivore management at Texas A and M University.

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Speaker 7: When this came up, some friends of mine that are

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Speaker 7: not in the space of working in wildlife. They're not

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Speaker 7: in the space of living and working on the land.

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Speaker 7: They're urban folks. They saw this and sent it to me,

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Speaker 7: and I really appreciated it because they said, John, this

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Speaker 7: is going around, but everybody's making fun of it. It

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Speaker 7: sounds ridiculous, But you're an expert, what do you think?

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Speaker 7: And I just shrugged and said, yeah, sure, thirty or

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Speaker 7: fifty faral hogs in a group is not uncommon. Makes

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Speaker 7: perfect sense to me. And that really was kind of

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Speaker 7: my moment of going, Oh, Okay, what's the big deal,

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Speaker 7: what is so absurd about this? And I remember, you know,

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Speaker 7: it was a conversation around like firearms and that kind

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Speaker 7: of thing. And so friends of mine that are not

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Speaker 7: gun owners, they're not hunters, but they know I am.

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Speaker 7: They said, you know, what's your thought on this? And

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Speaker 7: I said, you know, I never actually owned an ar

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Speaker 7: platform rifle before I started working professionally on feral hogs.

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Speaker 7: And this is one of the scenarios in which it

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Speaker 7: actually does make sense because of the numbers of animals

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Speaker 7: you're dealing with. And I think that's really the kind

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Speaker 7: of the juxtaposition here is when a person is engaging

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Speaker 7: in sport hunting or meat hunting or whatever it is,

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Speaker 7: you are focused on the one animal and the search

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Speaker 7: for that animal and the take of that animal, Whereas

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Speaker 7: with feral hogs, it's this deluge of invasive, exotic animals

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Speaker 7: that are destroying everything from clean air and clean water,

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Speaker 7: to the food that we rely on for our tables,

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Speaker 7: to the health and well being of our wild animals

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Speaker 7: and wild places, and it's just everything, and so at

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Speaker 7: times kind of an overwhelming sense of how will we

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Speaker 7: ever get control over this problem? And so when the

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Speaker 7: internet sensation kicked up to me, it was an interesting

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Speaker 7: moment to say, ah, you know, for those of us

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Speaker 7: that are actively engaged every day in the space, this

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Speaker 7: makes perfect sense, but to the outside world it seems

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Speaker 7: a little absurd. I took a different job, and academic job,

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Speaker 7: and I was working with ranchers, landowners, farmers and just

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Speaker 7: asking them, you know, what are the issues that are

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Speaker 7: most important to you, What are the issues that are

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Speaker 7: facing you that you need help on it? And almost unanimously,

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Speaker 7: everyone was talking about damage that was caused by wildlife

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Speaker 7: to their agricultural operation, whether they were farming your fruits

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Speaker 7: and vegetables that come to the market everybody wants to

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Speaker 7: eat right, or livestock production or whatever it was. And

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Speaker 7: it was the idea of they don't hate the animal,

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Speaker 7: they hate the damage and they don't know how to

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Speaker 7: fix it to balance the production with the animals. So

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Speaker 7: I got involved in that world of wildlife damage, and

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Speaker 7: then feral hogs kind of came as an interesting track

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Speaker 7: to that because it's an exotic invasive animal that doesn't

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Speaker 7: belong in the system that makes the sustainability of native

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Speaker 7: plants and animals as well as humans much more difficult.

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Speaker 7: And so over the years, I've done more and more

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Speaker 7: work in feral hogs simply because it's in my mind

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Speaker 7: it's one of the greater conservation challenges of our generation,

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Speaker 7: simply because we are fighting a human created problem that

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Speaker 7: we essentially engineered these animals to be as effective at

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Speaker 7: doing what they do, and now we're fighting against this,

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Speaker 7: like I said earlier, deluge. So, like I said, long story,

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Speaker 7: and I could go on for quite a while, but

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Speaker 7: basically what brought me to the table was kind of

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Speaker 7: looking at how people that live on the land and

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Speaker 7: take care of the land because it is their livelihood

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Speaker 7: as well, are struggling to do so in the face

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Speaker 7: of this exotic invasive species that seems to have blown

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Speaker 7: up in the last twenty or thirty years.

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Speaker 8: So, could you tell me.

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Speaker 2: A little bit about how did farrell hogs get here

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Speaker 2: and what were people misunderstanding as they were encountering the story.

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Speaker 9: In thirty to fifty number.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so what I love about this And I really

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Speaker 7: can't emphasize this enough for your listener base. Most of

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Speaker 7: us that work professionally with Farrell hogs, whether it's as

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Speaker 7: researchers or managers or what have you. When the thirty

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Speaker 7: to fifty number was thrown out, pretty much everyone like

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Speaker 7: I said, shrugged and said, yeah, it seems reasonable. Farrelloh

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Speaker 7: hogs got here a few different ways. Ironically, so Christopher

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Speaker 7: Columbus brought them on his second voyage to the New World.

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Speaker 7: So first voyage, no second voyage had pigs their domestic

438
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 7: pigs at that time, and they were brought as a

439
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 7: food source. And it's important to remember in this period

440
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 7: in history, pigs were raised in what we call a

441
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 7: free ranging environment, meaning you let them go forage, they

442
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 7: do what they do, and then once a year you

443
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 7: round them all up, usually before the winter time. If

444
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 7: you're in a cold climate and you slaughter pigs, you

445
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 7: keep a few in the barn over the winner. Then

446
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 7: you feed them right, and then you make salt pork

447
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 7: or sausages, whatever you're doing to put away food for

448
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 7: the winner. And that's a pretty common European way of

449
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 7: managing pigs. So they're brought to the New World by

450
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 7: Columbus and then subsequent Spanish conquistadorres brought them with them.

451
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 7: Early explorers in Florida brought them. And it's important to

452
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 7: note that the first couple of expeditions brought those pigs,

453
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 7: and then future expeditions in their diaries commented they needn't

454
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 7: have bothered bringing pigs because they were so abundant here already.

455
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 8: Ugh, okay, And.

456
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 7: They're not native to the New World, So there are

457
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 7: no classic swine native to the Western hemisphere. There are pekerees,

458
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 7: like in Texas we have habelina, it's a collared pekeery.

459
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 7: We just use the Spanish words typically because that's what

460
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 7: we're used to here. But pekeres are not pigs. I

461
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 7: can't emphasize that enough. They kind of look like pigs.

462
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 7: That's just convergent evolution making a thing look similar, but

463
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 7: they are not the same animal.

464
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 8: Those are the native species.

465
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 7: Correct, And they're native to southwestern US and then farther

466
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 7: south in Central America and South America, and they do

467
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 7: not have the problems that I'm about to describe. So

468
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 7: one of the things about pigs. It is mankind's oldest

469
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 7: livestock animal as far as we know. So they're bred

470
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 7: from Eurasian wild boar, which are a wild animal still

471
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 7: around in Europe. But animal husbandry over thousands of years

472
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 7: produced an animal that could breed it in any time

473
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 7: of the year, because that's important to produce sustainable food.

474
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 7: And they would have more offspring in a litter, which

475
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 7: makes sense when we're making sure they stay fed, so

476
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 7: they can have the ability to make sure those animals survive,

477
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 7: and more of those animals survive. They're heavier when they

478
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 7: wean from their mothers. All of these things that in

479
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 7: the wild wouldn't necessarily make sense, but in a farmed

480
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 7: context or a raised context makes sense because it's a

481
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 7: relationship where humans are also taking care of that animal.

482
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 7: So we broke a natural reproductive cycle to create an

483
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 7: animal that is the largest animal on the planet physically,

484
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 7: that can reproduce that quickly with that many offspring. So

485
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 7: I talked about the Spanish brought them, but then Anglo

486
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 7: settlers in New England, the British colonies brought them, and

487
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 7: in our part of the world, when Anglos started moving

488
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 7: from what's now the Midwest to Texas when it was

489
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 7: still a Spanish colony and then later part of Mexico.

490
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 7: They brought pigs with them, and what we have today

491
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 7: is a history of over the years those free ranging

492
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 7: pigs escaped, or when the pork industry was in a

493
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 7: bad spot, farmers might have just turned their pigs loose

494
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 7: because they couldn't afford to feed them. And in the

495
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 7: context of the am I going to let those animals starve?

496
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 7: Or am I going to let them go forwarge and

497
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 7: live because they can? Which one would you pick? I

498
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 7: know what I would pick, and I get that right now.

499
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 7: I don't think any of it was malicious. But we

500
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 7: live in a situation now where we have a tremendous

501
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 7: number of these animals, and their ability to reproduce means

502
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 7: that the population is growing all the time. So when

503
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 7: we talk about managing numbers, it's not enough just to

504
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 7: remove one or two. We have to try to get

505
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 7: the whole group. And now here comes the thirty to fifty.

506
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 7: And I think it's important to recognize I'm not mad

507
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 7: at the pigs. Nobody's mad at the pigs, but I

508
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 7: have an exotic invasive that's hurting the environment, and that

509
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 7: is the thing that I liked your city mouse, Country

510
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 7: mouse analogy. For people that live on the land and

511
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 7: work on the land, they understand the issue because they

512
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 7: see it every day. Or people that may be perennial

513
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 7: urbanites and that's their world and that's fine. They may

514
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 7: not understand in the same way of watching the land

515
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 7: be ripped apart and when the next rain comes all

516
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 7: the soil washes away because of this animal. We're not

517
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 7: mad at them per se, but they have to go.

518
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 7: They're damaging the environment and that at the end of

519
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 7: the day, we as humans rely on that environment to

520
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 7: survive as well. You're in New England in the northwest

521
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 7: or northeast, excuse me when you have black bears, they're

522
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 7: much bigger than ours bears. Most animals in northern climates

523
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 7: colder climates are larger, and warmer climates they're smaller, even

524
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 7: if they're the same species. So our bears in Texas,

525
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 7: though three hundred pounds is not an unusual size for

526
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 7: a bear, I have pigs that are bigger than bears.

527
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 8: That is, yeah, a crazy sentence to.

528
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 7: Me, And that's why I wanted to get to that

529
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 7: point of like forgive all the back info. But if

530
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 7: you remember nothing else, remember that. And that is the

531
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 7: resource issue.

532
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 8: But the way you're describing it, it sounds like it

533
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 8: is also related to colonialism that goes back hundreds of years,

534
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 8: Like this problem exists because of colonialism.

535
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 7: Which is an interesting tac one thing that I often

536
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 7: will bring up in these conversations, and it's something that

537
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 7: comes up a lot in conservation. Is most of the

538
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 7: population lives in urban centers, and that's very true, been

539
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 7: that way for better part of one hundred years. It's

540
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 7: been that way, and the issues that face folks in

541
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 7: rural areas are often cast aside or maligned or that

542
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 7: kind of thing, which I think anytime we delegitimize the

543
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 7: problem that anybody's facing, that is a real issue. This

544
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 7: is an issue that affects everybody. If you don't think

545
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 7: it affects you and your geography, just wait because it will.

546
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for speaking with me about this.

547
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 8: I really really appreciate it.

548
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, my pleasure.

549
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to John Thomas Sek. Keep fighting

550
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: the good fight. And of course the villain was colonialism

551
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: all along. Estimation almost everyone is a casualty in the story.

552
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: Of the hogs, especially the hogs themselves.

553
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: Of course, people and.

554
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: Crops should be protected, but the fact that we can

555
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: draw a direct line from European colonialism to shooting gigantic

556
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: pigs from hot air balloons is you know, we need

557
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: to keep moving. But you know, the wildest thing to

558
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: me about the Willie McNabb saga is, while the subject

559
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: felt completely out of left field, given that Jason Isbel

560
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: was referencing a larger cultural conversation around mass shootings, what

561
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: he was saying wasn't absurd. And while feral hog discourse

562
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: continued for truly weeks after this first reply, I think

563
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: the key to why people misunderstood it is contained in

564
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: the very beginning legit question. For rural Americans, most of

565
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: the people I quoted earlier are like me. They live

566
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: in cities, they work in some vaguely entertainment or media job,

567
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: and they like to make little jokes on the computer.

568
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: I would hazard a guess that if a Twitter user

569
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: lived in the rural South or ever, had the comment

570
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: about feral hogs might still sound weird, but it wouldn't

571
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: have struck them as the complete topic change that it

572
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: was made out to be by most people. That's because,

573
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: and on Twitter especially, the Internet doesn't make the same

574
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: space or consideration for people who live in rural areas.

575
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: It reminds me of my conversation with Meredith Brossard last

576
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: week when we were talking about the black TikTok strike

577
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: of who is considered to be neutral. They're white, they're young,

578
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: they're a man, and they live in a city. Kew

579
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: research indicates that only about thirteen percent of Twitter's user

580
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: base lives in a rural area, so Willie was quite

581
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: literally surrounded by users who just had no idea what

582
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 2: he was talking about. This was picked up on at

583
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: the time as well. There's an episode of Reply All

584
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: about it that I remember vividly. Twenty nineteen is also

585
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: the year that Twitter introduced the algorithmically driven topics feature

586
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: that showed users' stories that were trending, meaning that even

587
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: people who didn't follow Jason Isbel found out about the

588
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: Faral Hoggs debate. Isbel's skepticism about Willy was further credited

589
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: by the fact that both of these men are Southerners.

590
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: Isbel is from Alabama, and there's no shortage of Farrell

591
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Hoggs in Alabama, so like main characters were wont to do.

592
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: At this point, the.

593
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: Mainstream media swept this story up. Explainer pieces were written

594
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: breaking down the absurdity, and most of them ended with

595
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: a flourish sort of a and in case he didn't know,

596
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: the hogs are real. Not only had Willy McNabb achieved

597
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: main character status, he'd managed to start a conversation about

598
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: a very rural problem on an app where rural people

599
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: were not very present. As the days wore on, Jason

600
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: Isbel got a huge bump in social media engagement from

601
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: bringing the hogs to the masses. The tweet was on

602
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: August four and by August sixth, the Internet was so

603
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: swept up in the hogs that Isabel was featured and

604
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: interviewed in the La Times on August seventh.

605
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 3: He said, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people

606
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: making hog jokes this week without knowing why. I saw

607
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: quite a few feral hogjokes are taking my mind off

608
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: all the sadness in the world tweets yesterday. The sadness

609
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: was the whole reason for the hog talk in the

610
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: first place. This is like a TV show on an

611
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: RFD network hog Talk.

612
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: His bell gets a bump from this, but he was

613
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: already a celebrity. Willy was left to his own devices

614
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: to figure out how to handle the sudden, massive wave

615
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: of attention he was receiving. The people who have lived

616
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: in rural areas replying to him mainly say some version

617
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: of hey man, try an electric fence. Worked great for me,

618
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 2: but the vast majority of people are making fun of him.

619
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, Jason isbel is holding his ground in saying

620
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 2: that the concern Willy brought up in the weirdest way

621
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: possible is a nothing burger. Here's another quote from the

622
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: same La Times interview.

623
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 3: I've seen a damn hog in my time, and and

624
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 3: yes they're scary, but I'd much rather face a few

625
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: dozen wild hogs than a freaked out dad with an

626
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 3: AR fifteen.

627
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, point taken, but it never quite feels to me

628
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: like Isabel and McNab are having the same conversation. Isabel

629
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: is railing against American's access to assault weapons. There was

630
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: a ban on assault weapons from nineteen ninety four to

631
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: two thousand and four that lapsed and has yet to unlapse,

632
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: with mass shootings continuing throughout in the meantime, and while

633
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: Willy is inarguably a defender of the Second Amendment.

634
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: It does seem like he mainly wants to talk about hogs.

635
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 9: All.

636
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 2: This happened almost five years ago, and Willy has never

637
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: shied away from the infamy.

638
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: In fact, he's.

639
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: Taken up the cause of raising feral hog awareness, regularly

640
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: retweeting reports about hog attacks and attempts to curb them.

641
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: At the time I'm running this, there is a tusk

642
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: hog emoji next to his name on Twitter, and his bioreads.

643
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 4: Internet folk hero husband and dead hog emoji, American flag emoji.

644
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: I reached out to him on Twitter.

645
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: To see how this bizarre incident, this one reply has

646
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: shaped the last half decade of his life.

647
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: Here's our talk.

648
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 10: My name's Willie McNabb i, guess infamous from the tweet

649
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 10: I tweeted out five years ago to Jason Isbell.

650
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 9: I lived in South Arkansas.

651
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 10: I'm a business owner originally from North Carolina, graduated from

652
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 10: Western Carolina University, moved here soon thereafter my father had

653
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 10: started a company here, and.

654
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 9: So I've been here ever since. So I'm a proud

655
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 9: resident of Arkansas.

656
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: My first question, because I feel self conscious about it,

657
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: is is it annoying that people are still asking you

658
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: about a reply tweet from five years ago.

659
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 10: You know, it's I wouldn't say annoying, No, I think

660
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 10: that initially, you know, it's a little overwhelming the initial

661
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 10: response that I received. And I was remember the first

662
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 10: few days of it that I was very cognizant of, Okay,

663
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 10: a lot of people are paying attention, and this is

664
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 10: a public forum, and even someone at that time, I

665
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 10: didn't have a hundred followers, you know, it was a

666
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 10: very small platform or what I thought it was, and

667
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 10: so I was just you know, expressing an opinion or

668
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 10: a thought or something that i'd heard. And so I

669
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 10: came to realize pretty quick that this was a global

670
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 10: forum and a platform, and it only took one person

671
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 10: like Jason to be able to amplify that to see it.

672
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 10: And I don't think he did it in a I

673
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 10: don't think he was trying to get me in any way.

674
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 10: I think he was just replying to somebody. He probably

675
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 10: thought it was a troll at the time, frankly probably. So,

676
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 10: you know, after five years of it, there's not a

677
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 10: day that goes by that I don't get some interaction

678
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 10: or somebody saying something about it or so.

679
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 9: Now I don't look at it as negative.

680
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 10: Actually it's But on the other hand, I mean I

681
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 10: can't reply to every feral hall thing that I see,

682
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 10: you know, yeah, it's a lot.

683
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: So okay, Well, now that I cleared the air in

684
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: that sense, tell me a little bit more about yourself.

685
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 10: I grew up in western North Carolina, is a very

686
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 10: rural upbringing, and by the time I was ten twelve

687
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 10: years old, I could handle a firearm. It wasn't unusual

688
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 10: for us to hunt for squirrel or rabbits or my goodness,

689
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 10: deer or grouse or quail or dove. And I have

690
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 10: touched on this before, but you know, we we were

691
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 10: not a family of many means. You know, it was

692
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 10: a rural appalacious so we ate what we hunted, and

693
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 10: grew a garden and a very rural upbringing.

694
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 9: But it was a way in life people like myself.

695
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 10: Especially this was in the seventies and early eighties, you know,

696
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 10: when I was a kid, and so there was nothing

697
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 10: unusual about it. You know, at that time there was

698
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 10: still my goodness, I had a couple of friends that

699
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 10: I grew up with that didn't even have indoor plumbing.

700
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 9: I mean, this was.

701
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 10: A it's probably hard for people to even believe or grasp,

702
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 10: but it was real. But we didn't. The great equalizer

703
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 10: was was that all of us were like that. All

704
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 10: my friends, all the families that I knew, everybody.

705
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 9: Grew up that way.

706
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 10: So you know, I hunted some when I first came here.

707
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 10: I'm not not an avid outdoorsman like I was.

708
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 9: After having my own family.

709
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 10: My kids were never They weren't into hunting and fishing

710
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 10: like I was as a kid. They're more into basketball

711
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 10: and volleyball and sports and video games, and culturally it's

712
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 10: changed a lot, especially even in the South, from what

713
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 10: it was when I was a kid. Yeah, it was

714
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 10: a very simple upbringing, but I did travel some as

715
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 10: a kid. My father was a business agent for a

716
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 10: labor local labor union for years, and so I spent

717
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 10: a lot of time.

718
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 9: Home base was.

719
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 10: Always the Carolinas, but I would spend a year in Arizona,

720
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 10: or I would be in Mexico or Texas or the

721
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 10: Gulf Coast or Salt Lake City, And we just traveled

722
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 10: around a lot. With mining and he was working a

723
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 10: lot of work with the mining companies and refineries and

724
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 10: chemical plants and things like that. So he worked on

725
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 10: specialty equipment in these mines and refineries and chemical plans.

726
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 10: Actually it was specific to environmental control. So he traveled

727
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 10: a lot, and we traveled a lot with him, and

728
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 10: so I would be exposed to a lot of different

729
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 10: parts of the United States and cultures, and I would

730
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 10: go back to home base in Carolina, and then we

731
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 10: would travel again. And then when I got to about

732
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 10: junior high versusability reasons, my mother and.

733
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 9: Him agree, but it's not good for the kids.

734
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 10: I have two brothers, an older brother and a younger brother,

735
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 10: and we just didn't travel anymore.

736
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 9: We stayed.

737
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 10: We finished school in North Carolina and then went on

738
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 10: to college and found our way out here at.

739
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: Art so awesome.

740
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 8: And what sort of business do you run now, if

741
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 8: you're okay saying.

742
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 10: No, I don't mind saying it is a construction company

743
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 10: slash manufacturing company. We do some work in the chemical

744
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 10: industry and refinery and mining industries. It's what my father did.

745
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 10: But the largest portion of our work is in the

746
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 10: healthcare sector for radiation shielding for I think in practical terms,

747
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 10: and cts or pet scans or cancer treatment or anything

748
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 10: like that we build specialty shielding systems, stores systems, wall systems,

749
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 10: et cetera. Me and me and my younger brother hold

750
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 10: a United States patent for some operators for some of

751
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 10: these doors.

752
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 9: And yeah, so we successful.

753
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: You know, Wow, that's incredible.

754
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: Prior to however you think of it, Feral Hogsgate, what

755
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: was your relationship to the Internet, Like, when did you

756
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 2: start using it?

757
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: How did you get into Twitter?

758
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 10: Sure in nineteen ninety five when my father started this company,

759
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 10: I remember getting an HTML for idiots and writing code

760
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 10: to put up our first website.

761
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 9: Okay, so that was my first introduction to it.

762
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 10: And I was always adamant to try to every two

763
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 10: to three years to redo our website and try to

764
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 10: advertise in that way because it's a niche industry and

765
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 10: we do work domestically as well as internationally. But from

766
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 10: the social media aspect, I've never had Facebook. I don't

767
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 10: have Facebook today my platform. I do have a private

768
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 10: Instagram account. It's just pictures of my kids, you know'stial it.

769
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 10: But as far as me engaging with other people, Twitter

770
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 10: or x now as the platform I've always used and

771
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 10: and I enjoy it, and it is a you know,

772
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 10: it's like the wild West on there now it's not

773
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 10: what it was. But any any ideas or things that

774
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 10: I advocate for, I've usually post on there. But I

775
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 10: am cognizant that don't. I don't wait off into debates

776
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 10: that I don't have any understanding of or you know,

777
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 10: and there's so many of these cultural issues that I

778
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 10: just try to stay out of. I think, by nature,

779
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 10: I don't look for conflict and I don't look for division,

780
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 10: and I don't like those type of things, and so

781
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 10: I intentionally do not. I don't take positions on the

782
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 10: platform because if I say I'm for this, I lose

783
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 10: half the audience, and if I say I'm for something else,

784
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 10: I lose the other half of my audience.

785
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 9: You understand what I mean.

786
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 10: And I'm trying to get people to communicate with each

787
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 10: other and talk to each other. And the difficulty and

788
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 10: all of these issues are in the nuances of them.

789
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 10: You know, if these were easy, if these were easy

790
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 10: issues to fix, they would have been fixed by now.

791
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 10: And so I really like the engagement part in getting

792
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 10: people to get outside their comfort zone and try to

793
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 10: understand somebody else's perspective and then try to look at

794
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 10: those nuances.

795
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 9: And get resolution to them.

796
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 10: So I do not I'm not a big advocate for conflict,

797
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 10: but I do like debate. I like people to actually

798
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 10: sit and have conversations and try to figure out these problems.

799
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 10: I think that's the only way we get through.

800
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: Them, depending on the conversation.

801
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: I think this is an interesting example of it where

802
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 2: I certainly learned a lot from just delving deeper into

803
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: thirty to fifty faral hogs. So you're careful about the

804
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: kinds of conversations you start on Twitter. Why was this

805
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 2: specific tweet something that you thought I have to reply?

806
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 10: Well, it's look, it's a it's a tough it's a

807
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 10: tough issue, and I think Jason was coming from a

808
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 10: very intellectually honest place. And and for me, when I

809
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 10: believe that people are not being surrogates necessarily for a cause,

810
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 10: but they're they're being intellectually honest, like they believe these

811
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 10: things need to from their perspective, these things need to change,

812
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 10: and there needs to be Uh, there's legitimate ways we

813
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 10: can do it. Because of the personal experience that I

814
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 10: had on this issue, and it was you know, I've

815
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 10: told the story a lot of times but it was

816
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 10: very real. Uh, it happened, and my kids were very

817
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 10: small at the time, and once it happened to me,

818
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 10: and I started reaching out to people trying to understand

819
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 10: the wise and realizing how complex it was. But on

820
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 10: a very local, small level for an individual that you know,

821
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 10: that's protecting as house or as kids, my ability to

822
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 10: have the firearm to go out and no easier way

823
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 10: of saying is shooting these pigs to get them out

824
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 10: of my yard? It seemed like it always It has

825
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 10: always seemed to me that it was a fair question.

826
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 10: It was a fair debate to have. And I think

827
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 10: it's the disconnect between urban and rural areas in the

828
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 10: country that someone living in an urban atmosphere they simply

829
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 10: can't comprehend it, they don't know. And living in a

830
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 10: rural area, you know, I've got ten acres or whatever

831
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 10: it is, but I've got a two acre yard. In

832
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 10: the yard itself is huge. You know, I'm not going

833
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 10: to put a gate up or a fence up for

834
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 10: my kids to play.

835
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 9: In the yard. I don't have neighbors.

836
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 10: I mean I can't look in any direction and I

837
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 10: don't see any houses, and so my kids are just

838
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 10: being kids playing in the yard and so, but also

839
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 10: the hogs feel like they've got a right to come

840
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 10: in the yard too, you know what I mean. And

841
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 10: you know it's a long answer to a short question,

842
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 10: but I just there was a legitimacy to it. I mean,

843
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 10: there is this is the two and a half billion

844
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 10: dollars worth the damage annually in the country. Arkansas has

845
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 10: spending over or has over forty million dollars worth of

846
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 10: damage to crops here. And I remember it was three

847
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 10: months after it was about three months after the tweet,

848
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 10: Arkansas got almost three and a half million dollars in federal.

849
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: Funding strictly to repair hog damage.

850
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, they were.

851
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 10: There was the Arkansas Federal Hall Eradication Passports had been established.

852
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: Well what a title.

853
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 9: It's something that's a mouthful.

854
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, And so that funding came in. Now I can't

855
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 10: specifically say that it was because of the tweet, but

856
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 10: I've got to believe that, you know, all things point

857
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 10: to the attention that was on that issue at that time,

858
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 10: and the funding came in, and there's been additional funding since.

859
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 10: I think Senator to Bozeman has been able to get

860
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 10: some additional funding. But it's just as a huge issue.

861
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 10: There's no easy answers to it. But I do believe

862
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 10: the tweet probably led to some of that funding coming in,

863
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 10: so that's a positive to it.

864
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: I certainly didn't know what a huge issue this was

865
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: really until I saw your tweet and then saw all

866
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: the memes about the tweet, and then read the explainers

867
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: about the tweet, you know, sort of that classic internet cycle.

868
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: But I wanted to go back because again I'm coming

869
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 2: into this conversation in a pretty naive way.

870
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to shy away from that.

871
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: When you were talking with your community, what were the

872
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: potential solutions to take care of it?

873
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: Was it just the gun?

874
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 2: Was it?

875
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: Were there other options?

876
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: How?

877
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, walk me through that.

878
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 9: You know, I mentioned earlier.

879
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 10: I grew up in North Carolina and I hunted a

880
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 10: lot deer and pheasants or grouse, et cetera. But hal

881
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 10: Counting was not really a big thing there when I

882
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 10: was growing up, And so when I moved here, I

883
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 10: lived in town for six or seven years, and then

884
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 10: I moved I moved out of town and got a

885
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 10: bigger home, more land and more conducive to the way

886
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 10: I grew up and I'd been out there several years,

887
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 10: four or five, six years, and my kids were small,

888
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 10: and you know, it's Arkansas. You hear about hogs the

889
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 10: whole time. You hear it's the mascot for the university.

890
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 10: So you hear about hogs, and you hear about people

891
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 10: killing them. But I'd never actually hunted hogs. I'd never

892
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 10: never really been around them. And so when my kids

893
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 10: were small was my introduction. All these pigs and hogs

894
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 10: all over my yard, and so I you know, I

895
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 10: shot three of them and then and then they came

896
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 10: back a few more times. And when I started speaking

897
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 10: to my neighbors, that was their Their answer was that,

898
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 10: you know, you've just got to.

899
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 9: Get a gun.

900
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 10: And a lot of them I had the the you know,

901
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 10: the ars and aks or whatever type of assault style

902
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 10: weapons they had, and they were using them to eradicate

903
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 10: hogs or get them off their their lands. And timber

904
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 10: industry is really big here in South Arkansas, large tracts

905
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 10: of land as well as soy.

906
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 9: And you know crops.

907
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 10: You know, it'll destroy the crops and it'll destroy the timberland,

908
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 10: especially when they go in and don't have a clear cut,

909
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 10: and I'll put seedlings out, so there's real problems with it.

910
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 10: And these are not large corporate farming. It's a small farming,

911
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 10: you know, this individuals and family farms. And so their

912
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 10: answer was to go out and to just shoot these hogs.

913
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 10: You know, I know that in Texas they're looking at

914
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 10: there's like a strict nine or something like that. They're

915
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 10: they're poisoning the hogs and those type of methods. That

916
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 10: was never no one ever mentioned anything to me like that.

917
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,359
Speaker 10: It was always just, you know, you get a gun,

918
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 10: you go out.

919
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 9: You shoot them. That's what you do.

920
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 10: I don't want to get side tracked here, but I

921
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 10: remember a specific argument that people would say is that,

922
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 10: you know, every day Willie's out there fighting hogs and

923
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 10: as you are, and there's just packs of them running

924
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 10: over his yard.

925
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 9: And that's not really the way it works.

926
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 10: You know, they would show up and I wouldn't see

927
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 10: them for months, and then they would come back, or

928
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 10: it might be a year or two and they would

929
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 10: come back, and then there was a lot of environmental

930
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 10: factors that could drive them up. There could be it

931
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 10: could be a rainy season that would drive them out

932
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 10: of the bottoms. You know, this is kind of swamp land.

933
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 10: I never heard of any other solutions other than.

934
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: Just shooting Jason as Bell.

935
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: It seems like the undercurrent of what he's saying is

936
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 2: in relation to recent mass shootings that took place. You

937
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: bring up, well, here is a use for a rifle,

938
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 2: that is, you know, to protect my children.

939
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: And then the tweet takes off.

940
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 2: So the two of you are having a ridiculously complicated conversation.

941
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: When the tweet takes off.

942
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: What what is the initial reaction as you remember, how

943
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: do you choose who to talk to and who to

944
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: kind of be like?

945
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 10: I was very careful and what I said once I

946
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 10: realized the magnitude of it, And I remember it was

947
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 10: on a Sunday that I tweeted that. By Tuesday, I

948
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 10: came into the office and I had calls from Sky

949
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 10: News and Boxee and in all these major media publications

950
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 10: that were listening some type of response from me. And

951
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 10: quite frankly, my major in college was communications, so I

952
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 10: did a little studying in journalism, and I've always had

953
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 10: such a admiration for what you guys do, but I

954
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 10: felt that there was there was an agenda from a

955
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 10: lot of them, and I didn't want to be part

956
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 10: of that. If I was going to speak to the media,

957
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 10: I wanted people that I felt would give me a

958
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 10: fair a fair shake and what I was trying to say,

959
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 10: because they didn't understand the situation. And I wasn't interested

960
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 10: in a corporate media. I like independent media. I think

961
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 10: that you guys them from an intellectually honest place and

962
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 10: you're just trying to get the story out. So I

963
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 10: was intentional in that. And I'll give you I'll give

964
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 10: you a little something to me that I haven't told

965
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 10: anybody else. I've referenced since a couple of times in

966
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 10: tweets subsequently. You know, I in those first few days,

967
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 10: I was really worried because I was worried. I was

968
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 10: worried about I was worried about my family's safety because

969
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 10: people were taking Google Earth pictures of my home and saying,

970
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 10: you can put a fence right here, you can put

971
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 10: a gate right here. They were driving by my house

972
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 10: and taking pictures of my driveway. They called Health and

973
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 10: Human Services and said I should have my kids taken

974
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 10: away from me. I mean, just some of the craziest stuff.

975
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 10: And I remember my profile picture at the time on

976
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 10: my Twitter feed was me and my daughter. We had

977
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 10: been on vacation in San Francisco, my family had and

978
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 10: it was just an innocent picture. But somebody had sent

979
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 10: me some links that they were taking my daughter's picture

980
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 10: in mine and selling cups and t shirts on Etsy

981
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 10: and all these places.

982
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I had to.

983
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 10: Hire an attorney. I mean, I spent ten thousand dollars

984
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 10: in legal fees.

985
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 8: What, yeah, break that down for me.

986
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 9: Sure, I don't mind.

987
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 10: So they had to tweet with a picture of me

988
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 10: and my daughter, and they were selling it on these platforms,

989
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 10: and I said I had to hire I had two attorneys.

990
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 10: I had one that was writing cease and assist letters.

991
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 10: This was all in the first couple of weeks to

992
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 10: quit selling the image or not. And then I went

993
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 10: to a copyright trademark lawyer said, okay, let's try to

994
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 10: copyright this phrase thirty to fifty paral hogs so people

995
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 10: can't use it to make.

996
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 9: Money off of.

997
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 10: And I learned pretty quick within a few weeks, Okay,

998
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 10: I can't control this. There's just no way. I can't

999
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 10: control this. I can't control any of this. And so

1000
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 10: I remember, I remember in the first few days, it's

1001
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 10: like you ought to make some merchandise. I'm like, I'm

1002
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 10: not making merchandise off this, And then after three weeks,

1003
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 10: I'm like, Okay, I've spent ten grand in legal fees here.

1004
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 9: I've got to recoup some of it.

1005
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 10: And what a horrible idea that was because the T

1006
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 10: shirt or a bomb, they didn't do anything. And so

1007
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 10: I've got boxes full of T shirts no way, yeah,

1008
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 10: that I never sold and it was strictly to try

1009
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 10: to help pay for my legal expenses.

1010
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 9: So I spent ten.

1011
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 10: Thousand legal fields houses being surveilled by people coming up

1012
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 10: and taking pictures of my driveway that was getting called

1013
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 10: in for child and dangerment. I mean, just the craziest

1014
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 10: things those first few weeks were they were a little

1015
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 10: they were a little crazy. They really were just.

1016
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 2: See hearing the particulars of what it's like to not

1017
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: even just like mentally, have to process that volume of attention,

1018
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: especially when most people who are replying don't know what

1019
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 2: you're talking about, and then to have to take those

1020
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: sorts of measures, that is wild. So how did your

1021
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: family and just your community in general react to you

1022
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 2: becoming feral Hogs guy overnight? Because they certainly knew about

1023
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 2: the hogs.

1024
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 10: Well, locally, everybody here thought it was hilarious. They thought

1025
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 10: the whole thing was just ludicrous and hilarious because you know,

1026
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 10: this is this is normal way alive for people here.

1027
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 10: You know that I wasn't the only person dealing with

1028
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 10: hogs because I wasn't not even an avid outdoorsman, and

1029
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 10: people are like you, you're the Faral guy. You don't

1030
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 10: even really hunt. Everybody else are these hunters that it

1031
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 10: definitely people more.

1032
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 9: Equipped to have this debate.

1033
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 10: You know. My I remember my wife, She's like, I'm

1034
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 10: not talking to anybody. This is ridiculous. I'm not speaking

1035
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 10: to anybody about this. She thought the whole thing was crazy.

1036
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 10: My kids they got I think they probably got a

1037
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 10: little popularity because their dad was the Faral Hall guy,

1038
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 10: so they thought it was hilarious, you know, but it

1039
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 10: was stressful. I mean, the truth of it is, if

1040
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 10: I would have been twenty years younger, it would have

1041
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 10: you know, I don't know how anyone I remember having

1042
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 10: that conversation with my attorney. I don't know how anyone

1043
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 10: fifteen to thirty years of age could deal with that

1044
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 10: type of attention. You know, you see people having meltdowns

1045
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 10: that are these public figures my goodness, no wonder. I mean,

1046
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 10: this is just a very small thing that I dealt

1047
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 10: with in the age I was. It was hard, especially

1048
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 10: the first few weeks of it. So, yeah, that was difficult.

1049
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 10: As far as the positive, I think that there was

1050
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 10: at the root of it is a legitimate problem, and

1051
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 10: I think the monies that have been allocated for that

1052
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 10: that there's legitimacy to it. And I remember after I

1053
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 10: put out my statement, like a week into it, the

1054
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 10: amount of it's like people switched one eighty. I remember

1055
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 10: Jason was interacting with like Kevin Bacon or something on

1056
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 10: a tweet and they were laughing about it, and I thought,

1057
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 10: you know, this is kind of crazy. Yea even has

1058
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 10: an opinion.

1059
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 9: On something like this, right, and I put it.

1060
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 10: But when I put out that statement, it's like public

1061
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 10: sentiment changed. And quite frankly, Jason was he could have

1062
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 10: been a lot, are sure, and a lot he was

1063
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 10: kind to me. He was just you know, I've never

1064
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 10: met him, I've never spoke to him personally. We have

1065
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 10: communicated over Twitter, but he was genuinely kind of me.

1066
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 10: He could have been a lot different type of person,

1067
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 10: and I think that speaks to who he is and

1068
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 10: what he believes in and what he advocates for. I'm

1069
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 10: still just as big a fan of his as I

1070
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 10: ever was.

1071
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: You were you a fan of his beforehand?

1072
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 9: Oh?

1073
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 10: A massive fan. But you know, it was weird. I

1074
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 10: kind of backed into his music. He had been around

1075
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 10: for a while. I didn't really follow him when he

1076
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 10: was Drive by Truckers. Then he put out a couple

1077
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 10: of albums and Southeastern had already kind of blown up,

1078
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 10: and he was coming out with something more than something

1079
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 10: more than pre is at the album. Yeah, that's the

1080
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 10: one that I really started paying attention. And then I

1081
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 10: went back and discovered Southeastern and I saw him on

1082
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 10: that tour last ball with my daughter, which was a

1083
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 10: good one.

1084
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, I took her. Yeah, we got I got front

1085
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 9: row seeds.

1086
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 10: We went down to Streetport and saw him the auditorium

1087
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 10: down there and it was a fantastic show.

1088
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: And did he know you were there?

1089
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1090
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,959
Speaker 10: He tweeted something about it. He tweeted something about it. Yeah,

1091
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 10: And like I said, he's been nothing but kind of

1092
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 10: And those first few days, once he realized that I

1093
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 10: was a sincere person and not some troll, he was,

1094
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 10: you know, he was very nice to me and and

1095
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 10: I'm I'm still a huge Jason many.

1096
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: My last question now is has your relationship changed to

1097
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 2: the Internet since this incident.

1098
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 10: I'm very careful to what I say.

1099
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 9: If I'm advocating.

1100
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 10: For something specifically, I'm you know that there are a

1101
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 10: few causes that I openly advocate for and I speak to.

1102
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 9: But I like listening. You know.

1103
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 10: I spend a lot of time on Twitter. You know,

1104
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 10: that's where I get a lot of my news from.

1105
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 10: I listened to a lot of podcasts. I don't think

1106
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 10: there's any issue that it's any that's confronting the American

1107
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 10: people right now that if we would just just step

1108
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 10: back to the half step and listen to each other.

1109
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 10: I really don't think we're that far part on things.

1110
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 9: I think it's in the nuances of.

1111
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 10: It that requires some long form conversations, some true discussion

1112
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 10: of the issues. I still believe that twitter's the it's

1113
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 10: the wild West out there, but there's people there that

1114
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 10: that will have honest, intellectual conversations with you, and.

1115
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 9: I've made some friends on there. You know.

1116
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 10: I'm just I'm probably more careful than what I say

1117
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 10: and just try to listen a little bit more, and

1118
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 10: I think twice about it. I remember somebody had quoted,

1119
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 10: if you're going to take a real position on something,

1120
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 10: you better believe in it because you never know, you

1121
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 10: never know how it may blow up. And it's truly

1122
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 10: a public forum out there. So I don't know if

1123
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 10: that answers the question, but.

1124
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: It absolutely does.

1125
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a story about the different ways that

1126
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: Americans view guns.

1127
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: It's a story about.

1128
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 2: Rural and urban online audiences trying to understand the same interaction.

1129
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: And to me, it's.

1130
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 2: Ultimately like thirty to fifty is a very funny amount

1131
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: of specific for a range of hogs. Where does thirty

1132
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: for fifty come from?

1133
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 9: Uh?

1134
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 10: You know the uh. I've spoken about that a couple

1135
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 10: of times. The numbers were literally just pulled out of

1136
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 10: the air. You know, there was a lot of hogs.

1137
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 10: I don't know it was. You know, I'd said that

1138
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 10: to DJ. It could have been twenty to twenty five.

1139
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 10: You know, it was just a number. It was a

1140
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 10: large number of haulks. I was trying to convey. It

1141
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,919
Speaker 10: was a large number of hogs. They were in my yard.

1142
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 10: I had to get him out of there fast. There

1143
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 10: was literally no more thought put into it than that

1144
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 10: I've learned since that I didn't know it then that

1145
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 10: you know, a large pack of hogs is called a sounder,

1146
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 10: and a sounder can be thirty hogs. Is a large sounder,

1147
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 10: a large group of hogs. And you know when when

1148
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 10: your kids are out in your yard playing and a

1149
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 10: bunch of them out is out there, you don't know

1150
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 10: how many. You just know your whole car yards covered

1151
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 10: with fogs, and so it's just a bunch, you know,

1152
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 10: it's just a lot. I could have said there was a.

1153
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: Lot of hogs.

1154
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like if you had just said a

1155
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 2: lot of hogs, we would not be sitting here.

1156
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: And it was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you

1157
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: so much, Willy.

1158
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Willy for his time and

1159
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 2: just for being such a kind person and a good

1160
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 2: sport about farll hogs over the years. He was so

1161
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: so kind to me and I really really appreciate it.

1162
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Willy. You can still catch him on Twitter today.

1163
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 2: And when we come back, I try to slide that

1164
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: final piece of the piggy puzzle into place. Welcome back

1165
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: to sixteenth minute. When I was a kid, my mom

1166
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 2: would not let me even look at a Halo game

1167
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 2: and would constantly repeat that guns are for squirting, not hurting.

1168
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 2: And today we are talking about the legend of thirty

1169
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: to fifty feral hogs that run into my yard within

1170
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 2: three to five minutes while my small kids play. I

1171
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: put a pin in it at the top of the episode.

1172
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 2: But I want to get back into the reason that

1173
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 2: this conversation happened in the first place, when two mass

1174
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 2: shootings happened in the space of the same day in

1175
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: the US, It's something I haven't seen discussed as much

1176
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: in the scope of this story, that this moment of

1177
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: the Internet coming together to make hog jokes was prompted

1178
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: by something really awful.

1179
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: So before we get to our last interview today, here's

1180
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: the thing.

1181
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: I don't have an expert opinion on gun control. I

1182
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: only have my opinion, and it's that I hate guns

1183
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 2: and I struggle to hear out defenses of them, even

1184
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 2: in cases where that defense makes some sense. And that

1185
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: opinion is built on the way anyone built opinions. It's

1186
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: informed by how I grew up, where I live now

1187
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 2: and what my personal experiences are. I grew up in

1188
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 2: a small city and not really around gun owners. I

1189
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: live in a city now and don't know many gun

1190
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 2: owners now, and my personal experience with a school shooting

1191
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: where there were thankfully no fatalities, any anxiety that I

1192
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: have for a family that mainly consists of teachers who

1193
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 2: have to conduct these terrifying, tedious, and necessary drills with

1194
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 2: their students more or less solidifies that opinion. I was

1195
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 2: talking about this with my brother last night. He is

1196
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: a friend who grew up in a rural area, is queer,

1197
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 2: and felt necessary to have a gun because outside of

1198
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 2: things like the hogs, their perspective is that the people

1199
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: who pose an active threat to them in their community

1200
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: certainly have guns, and they want to be able to

1201
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: defend themselves in their community should anything happen. And I

1202
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: know that hobbyists are an argument for guns, that argument

1203
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 2: was kind of a non starter for us as well.

1204
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:42,959
Speaker 1: A hobby is totally.

1205
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 2: Fine, but leave your gun at the range, but a

1206
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 2: horse girl leaves her horse.

1207
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: In the stable.

1208
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 2: A hobbyist shouldn't need a gun in their house any

1209
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 2: more than a horse girl needs a horse.

1210
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: In her bathroom.

1211
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 2: You don't want the wrong person with a loaded gun

1212
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 2: or a temperamental horse within arm's reach. That's my opinion,

1213
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 2: and i'll it lacks nuance. I've never had a reason

1214
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 2: to own a gun, and outside of being just really

1215
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 2: fucking juice after seeing Atomic Blonde, I hope I never

1216
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: have reason too. It's absurdly frustrating to me how easy

1217
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 2: it is to acquire an ar weapon in most places

1218
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: in the United States, and the consequences are what we

1219
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 2: saw in Dayton and San Antonio and many times since.

1220
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: And so, while this is pretty immovably how I feel,

1221
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: talking to today's guests pulled me out of the bubble

1222
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: of my own experience a little bit. With shootings like these,

1223
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: the gun isn't the only problem. There's a massive need

1224
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 2: to make some movement on how people are radicalized to

1225
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 2: do things like this, But I don't see how making

1226
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 2: it way more difficult for guns to fall into these hands.

1227
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: Isn't a place to start.

1228
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: A lot of arguments I've heard for guns rarely acknowledge

1229
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: or account for the people who are most likely to

1230
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: be harmed by them, disproportionately people of color, specifically unarmed

1231
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: black Americans. And while all of this is true, do

1232
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,959
Speaker 2: I have an answer of how to defend one's self

1233
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 2: from the Colons Hogs, No, I don't. I wanted to

1234
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 2: talk to someone who felt more like William McNabb than

1235
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: about me on gun ownership, because it's a perspective that

1236
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: I genuinely struggle with, especially with people who have politics

1237
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: that are very similar to mine. And the perfect person

1238
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 2: to speak to was Carl Cassarta, whose YouTube channel in

1239
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 2: Range TV is described as the channel where firearms, culture,

1240
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 2: history and human rights meet. He's a friend of the

1241
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 2: producers of this show, Sophie and Robert, and he was

1242
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 2: so kind to talk to me for this episode.

1243
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: Here's our talk.

1244
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 11: So, Hi, I'm Carl Casarta, and I am the creator

1245
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 11: and producer of in range TV, which is a ostensibly

1246
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 11: of firearms content creation YouTube channel, but really it's extended

1247
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 11: beyond that. It's much more about We do a lot

1248
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 11: to do with firearms, but I also do a lot

1249
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 11: of content about history, civil rights, essentially the intersectionality of

1250
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 11: how firearms have really shaped society.

1251
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so.

1252
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 2: Much for being here to talk about the pressing issue

1253
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 2: of thirty to fifty faral Hogs five years ago. So

1254
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 2: Jason DISWELLI yes, says if you're on here arguing the

1255
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 2: definition of assault weapon today, you are part of the problem.

1256
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 2: You know what an assault weapon is and you know

1257
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 2: you don't need one. What's your take on that.

1258
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 11: Well, the thing about that term assault weapon is actually

1259
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 11: a politically charged term or essentially like legislative attempts to

1260
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 11: restrict firearms. Right, it's whether you agree or disagree that

1261
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 11: term assault weapon is not actually something that's ever used

1262
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 11: in any firearms realities, like there is the term assault rifle.

1263
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 11: And oddly, of course, as all things seem too sadly

1264
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 11: goes all the way back to Hitler when he called

1265
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 11: when he coined the gum the storm gaverra, which was

1266
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 11: the storm rifle, which is where assault rifle comes from.

1267
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 11: So what that did is that codified a type of

1268
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 11: firearm which was an intermediate cartridge, meaning something that wasn't

1269
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 11: a full size cartridge, but not a pistol cartridge, something

1270
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 11: between the two, that had a box fed magazine, meaning

1271
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 11: a detachable magazine usually of thirty round capacity, that could

1272
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 11: find single shot or fully automatic. And that is actual,

1273
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 11: technically the firearms definition of what an assault rifle is.

1274
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 11: But in the nineties and when we saw a gun

1275
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 11: control on the rise, this term assault weapon was used

1276
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 11: by politicians, and it was vague and they never could

1277
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 11: really define it because they were trying to say things

1278
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 11: like the shoulder thing that goes up. I'm not kidding

1279
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 11: that one politician said that a shroud like. They had

1280
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 11: all these ideas of what they were just trying to

1281
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 11: like codify this phrase assault weapon, but there is no

1282
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 11: such actual thing technically, and so so it's a political term.

1283
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 2: Actually, because I know the cultural moment that Jason Isbell's

1284
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 2: responding to here, but I can't tell if he is

1285
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 2: responding to a specific person making a semantic argument or what.

1286
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 11: First of all, I want, I want. I hope the audience,

1287
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 11: at least some of the audience is familiar with my

1288
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 11: work and they'll know that I'm not making light of

1289
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 11: any of these horrific events. This is a terrible thing,

1290
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 11: but we're not directly talking about it. We're talking about

1291
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 11: this phrase assault weapon. And it came about, as far

1292
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 11: as I know, the real phraseology came about in the

1293
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 11: early nineties, which is what ultimately turned into the nineteen

1294
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 11: ninety for Assault Weapons Bill, which was a restriction on

1295
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 11: the ownership of a large swath of firearms that were

1296
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 11: defined initially by name but then they realized they couldn't

1297
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,959
Speaker 11: define them by name because there was too many variants

1298
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 11: in like manufacturers, So then they tried to define them

1299
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 11: by features like a pistol grip or a shroud, or

1300
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 11: a flash hier or a bayonet lug. I'm not getting

1301
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 11: one of the defining characteristics of an assault weapon legally speaking,

1302
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 11: has frequently been a bayonet lug. And so this is

1303
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 11: where it starts to get a little absurd, because we

1304
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 11: don't hear about a lot of drive by bayonettings, right,

1305
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 11: So it became almost esthetic and not really functionally in practice.

1306
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 11: And that's where the challenge is because and this is

1307
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 11: where you hear like the trope from gun people like, well,

1308
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 11: an assault weapon is a weapon, is a weapon. It's

1309
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 11: how you use it to determine difference.

1310
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 9: In a sult weapon.

1311
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 11: And you know that's not totally incorrect. But at the

1312
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 11: same time, when someone says a soul weapon, because of

1313
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 11: the politics behind it, you know what they mean, right.

1314
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 11: It's kind of like, you know, you can't define porn,

1315
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 11: but you know when you see it kind of thing.

1316
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 11: That's what they were trying to do with the law,

1317
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 11: and they could never really pull it off because it's

1318
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 11: really it's kind of a morpheus and hard to hold

1319
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 11: on too.

1320
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 2: Sounds so much like they're talking about two very different things.

1321
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 2: Are they talking about two very different things? Where is

1322
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:43,759
Speaker 2: the disconnect happening here outside of this being a rural

1323
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 2: issue that a lot of city people would not be

1324
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 2: aware exists.

1325
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 11: Wherever anyone's falls on the topic of firearms and firearms

1326
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 11: ownership in this country, this is a really good moment

1327
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 11: to kind of like really distinctively show the very different

1328
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 11: world view that are existing in this space. Right, So,

1329
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 11: I know what his original post mean, right, So, like

1330
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 11: he's using a political term of assault weapon, but I

1331
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 11: also understand the context of why this person is saying this.

1332
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 11: They're talking about a weapon that is probably thirty round

1333
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 11: capacity semi automatic, can fire many rounds, you know quickly,

1334
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 11: or to be honest with you, a lot of people

1335
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 11: that are not familiar with firearms just assume these things

1336
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 11: are fully automatic machine guns and they're not like that.

1337
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 11: There's such a broken conversation being had that neither side

1338
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 11: can really speak the same language, and part of that

1339
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 11: is one side's defensive and doesn't want to lose the

1340
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 11: thing that's important to them in some ways may be

1341
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 11: important only psychologically, and in some ways may be important

1342
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 11: actually in reality when you live in a rural life,

1343
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 11: because I do live a rural existence for most of

1344
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 11: my existence. The truth is in those spaces like where

1345
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 11: I'm at, whether or not you like police or not

1346
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 11: calling them, is the chances are you're going to have

1347
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 11: a third minute to one hour response time. And so

1348
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 11: that's just how it works. And so there is a

1349
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 11: reality there that in a world filled with items like this,

1350
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 11: there is a chance that that item could very well

1351
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 11: be the thing that saves your life, like maybe not

1352
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 11: against fifty hogs, but it could be something else like.

1353
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 10: I means or even.

1354
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 11: Five or whatever. But the thing is that's interesting about

1355
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 11: this is that, let's be realistic. When people say assault WEP,

1356
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 11: and they almost always now think of an AR fifteen, right,

1357
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 11: And so here's the thing that's so interesting about this. Yes,

1358
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 11: an AR fifteen does hold thirty rounds or even sixty rounds.

1359
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 11: It can fire very quickly. But you know what else

1360
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 11: it can do. It's actually very capable for someone who

1361
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 11: doesn't have the opportunity to train a lot or have

1362
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 11: like lots of upper body strength or isn't necessarily proficient

1363
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 11: to actually be capable to use. So there's actually a

1364
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 11: weird sense of ableism in this sometimes because there are

1365
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 11: places I believe in spaces in this world where people

1366
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 11: do need well I do believe in the right of

1367
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 11: self defense. Across the board, there are places and where

1368
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 11: that weapon may very well be the right choice because

1369
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 11: the person who needs to use it really couldn't handle

1370
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 11: something else. And so that's never talked about, and it's

1371
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 11: like it's kind of an interesting thing. But when you

1372
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 11: live in the city, you of course are in a

1373
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 11: place where ostensibly, with the pushup a button on your phone,

1374
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 11: hopefully actual help is there to be had, or you're

1375
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 11: amongst other people, or there aren't feral hogs rolling in

1376
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 11: the streets of like Times Square, I assume, And so

1377
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 11: this worldview when you live in a rural place, it's

1378
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 11: almost like they're on different We're in the same country,

1379
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 11: but we're on different planets. One of the interesting things

1380
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 11: about social media is that it's caused everyone like we

1381
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 11: used to have, like our circles we existed in, like

1382
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 11: these people hung out over there and those people hung

1383
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 11: over there, and sometimes they would talk at the local

1384
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 11: supermarket or whatever, the coffee shop, but it was somewhat

1385
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 11: cursory interaction. But social media has forced us all into

1386
01:13:54,400 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 11: one giant communal living space. But without context, these worldviews

1387
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 11: really very foreign to each other. That person living with

1388
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 11: those quite possibly thirty hogs in the yard can't fathom

1389
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 11: walking down New York City or New Orleans. That's like

1390
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 11: it is a different planet. And someone from one of

1391
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:17,560
Speaker 11: those places can't fathom a bunch of wild creatures in

1392
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 11: the yard that actually could legitimately kill them. Like those

1393
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 11: are very such.

1394
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 2: Different world I'm very possibly ask you to solve the

1395
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 2: entire world for me right now. But is there in

1396
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 2: this conversation that they're having, is there a solution where

1397
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 2: Jason isbela is asking essentially how can we get mass

1398
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 2: shootings to stop? And William mcnabbus asking how can I

1399
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 2: protect my children from the hot.

1400
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 11: Well, you're going to hear the opinion of a person

1401
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 11: that's a big proponent of of of self defense rights,

1402
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 11: So you're gonna get my bias there is. Everyone's got

1403
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 11: to have a line somewhere, right, So I don't know

1404
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 11: that you should I don't believe you should walk down

1405
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:55,719
Speaker 11: to the street and be able to buy an RPG

1406
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 11: like this is a problem, right, okay, And maybe some

1407
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 11: people's line is an AIR fifteen, But the reality is

1408
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 11: anyone using any of these things for the things they're

1409
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 11: doing is to me the symptom of a much deeper

1410
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 11: cultural problem that isn't being discussed. Why is this happening?

1411
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 11: And when it comes historically because you said you watch

1412
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 11: some of my history work, the reality is from a

1413
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 11: firearms perspective, this is a topic that's been really dwelling

1414
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 11: on me for a while. Technologically speaking, we didn't have

1415
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 11: AR fifteens in like eighteen eighty, but the types of

1416
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 11: firearms that existed in eighteen eighty we're capable of doing

1417
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 11: almost the same sort of horrific things you can do

1418
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 11: now with an AR fifteen. It almost it's not trying

1419
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 11: to be a cocky, but something happened somewhere where these things,

1420
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 11: which are prolific in this country and always have been,

1421
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 11: started taking this even darker turn. And that darker turn,

1422
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 11: to me is where we should be focusing is why

1423
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 11: is this happening? And what is it we're doing in

1424
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 11: our society that's making everybody in all directions feeling I

1425
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 11: don't mean it sounds so dark, but like America feeling

1426
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 11: like a dark place, and there's reasons, and I think

1427
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 11: it's across the spectrum, right. It's like almost anyone you

1428
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 11: talk to isn't happy with how it is, and there's

1429
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 11: a reason. Something's wrong, something's deeply wrong. And you hear

1430
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 11: things like capitalism, which is true for sure, but the

1431
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 11: social ills that we are built in and aren't addressing

1432
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 11: are manifesting in so many ways beyond and just isn't

1433
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 11: the right word, because you can't see just a mass shooting,

1434
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 11: because these are lives, But that is one example of

1435
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 11: many manifestations of I'm going to go ahead and say

1436
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 11: a diseased society to be better.

1437
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, both people are essentially talking about being

1438
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 2: failed in various ways by their government. The conversation doesn't

1439
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 2: quite connect, and I don't know, I mean, just based

1440
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,280
Speaker 2: off of what you were just saying, it feels very

1441
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 2: much like contributing to this disease while also being a

1442
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 2: place that I love, a place where I've found a

1443
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: lot of dear friends is the Internet.

1444
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 11: And I'm not trying to take us off topic because

1445
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 11: I know we're talking about the wild hogs issue versus

1446
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 11: assault weapons. But like, hopefully he brought some context of

1447
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 11: where that phrase comes from. And the reality of the

1448
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 11: cultural divide that exists in this country is diverse. And

1449
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 11: here we are all in one space using American style English,

1450
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:13,719
Speaker 11: but we're not speaking the same language. We're just aren't.

1451
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 11: And I how to get people to get on a

1452
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 11: better page is a hard call. I don't know, but

1453
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 11: like what I do in my opinion, what I do

1454
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 11: know or believe at least, is that the best answer

1455
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 11: ever is education, and I'm not sure how to do

1456
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 11: that when the algorithm just wants to make it a war.

1457
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 11: And that's what this is why this is kind of

1458
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 11: like that, right, because this guy posts the thing and

1459
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 11: he's his heart's on the right place. We should never

1460
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 11: have another master footing again. And the other guy's like, well,

1461
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 11: what do I do about these things in my heart

1462
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 11: that are trying to kill my kids? And they're both

1463
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 11: they're not. Neither one's wrong, right.

1464
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Carl Cassarta. You can follow his work.

1465
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 2: I would particularly recommend the historical stuff over on in

1466
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:58,600
Speaker 2: Range TV linked in the description of this episode. I

1467
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe there is a version of the world

1468
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 2: where most people could handle a weapon as dangerous and

1469
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 2: volatile as an AR fifteen. But I don't think we're

1470
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,560
Speaker 2: living in that world. The issues that the hog tweet prompted,

1471
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 2: those of mass shootings and gun violence, and that of

1472
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 2: a hostile and violent species hell bent on killing children

1473
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 2: are more similar than I realized. They're both invasive species,

1474
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 2: and outside of supporting people who are trying to prevent

1475
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: these horrors, I'm not the person that has the solution.

1476
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 2: I don't even have a driver's license. But what I

1477
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 2: do want to do here is include the voice of

1478
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 2: someone who is doing their level best to prevent further

1479
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,679
Speaker 2: gun violence in the US in a genuine way, because

1480
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:42,759
Speaker 2: the loss that's caused by US policies on guns is huge.

1481
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 2: One story that really stuck with me in the researching

1482
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 2: for this episode is an ongoing effort organized by a

1483
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 2: man named Dion Green, the son of a victim from

1484
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 2: the Dayton mass shooting. Since he lost his father, he

1485
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 2: is focused on helping people and communities affected by this

1486
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 2: kind of violence and showing them a path to healing

1487
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: or He is speaking on the local news last year

1488
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 2: after traveling to Maine following the mass shooting in Lewiston

1489
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 2: that left eighteen people dead.

1490
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 12: The sad thing about it is there's going to be

1491
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 12: another shooting and they're going to disperse out, and when

1492
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 12: they disperse out, the resources to leave with them as well.

1493
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 12: So I need to know. I need them to know

1494
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 12: that there are still people around that are willing to help.

1495
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 13: Green knows their grief well. He lost his father, Derek Fudge,

1496
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 13: in the twenty nineteen Oregon District mass shooting. Green taking

1497
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 13: his pain and creating an outlet for support. He now

1498
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 13: leads the Fudge Foundation, a nonprofit in his father's name.

1499
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 13: Its mission is to help those dealing with traumatic events

1500
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,440
Speaker 13: and advocate at the local and national level.

1501
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 12: That bend aid comes off and that trauma surfaces. So

1502
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 12: to have people there to be able to help and

1503
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 12: assist and let them know how to get through it

1504
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 12: and just share opinions and things of how other survivors

1505
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,640
Speaker 12: got through it is monumental to the next survivors that

1506
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,440
Speaker 12: are being able to process these things.

1507
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 2: I think Dion's work is really amazing. I will link

1508
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 2: to it in the description. And I'm so sorry that

1509
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 2: the Hogs episode got so sad. Jesus, So what happened

1510
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 2: to these hogs. The hogs that we were told numbered

1511
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: between thirty and fifty, but in retrospect was probably less. Listener,

1512
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: I wish I had better news. The hogs are probably dead,

1513
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 2: giving the average life expectancy of a hog, or potentially

1514
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 2: them being shot from a balloon. And when it comes

1515
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 2: to gun policy in the US, at the time i'm writing,

1516
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 2: assault weapons are prohibited in only nine states, and while

1517
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 2: mass shootings are lower this year than the previous few,

1518
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 2: the United States still has markedly more gun violence than

1519
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 2: in other developed nations. And that's where we are five

1520
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: years later. Gun laws are stagnant.

1521
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 1: The hogs are loose, but at least Willie.

1522
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 2: McNabb and Jason isbel got to hang out at a

1523
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 2: concert one time. That's not nothing. It's just almost nothing.

1524
01:20:56,400 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: And so my suite probably dearly departed thirty to fifty

1525
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 2: faral hogs. Your sixteenth minute ends.

1526
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 13: Now I'm seeing things, mister Zuckerman.

1527
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 12: Mister Zuckerman, something's happened to leurvy.

1528
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 9: Do you see what I see? So, p.

1529
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 4: You don't suppose that spider.

1530
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 10: If we have received a sign we have a very

1531
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 10: unusual pig.

1532
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:40,520
Speaker 2: Sixteenth minute is a production of Full Zone Media and iHeartRadio.

1533
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:44,520
Speaker 1: It is written, posted, and produced by me Jamie Loftus.

1534
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans.

1535
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: You Amazing.

1536
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 2: Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. Our

1537
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:55,600
Speaker 2: theme song is by Sad thirteen and