WEBVTT - Instant Reaction: Trump’s Global Tariffs Found Illegal by US Appeals Court

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a breaking news update from Bloomberg instant reaction

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<v Speaker 2>and analysis from our three thousand journalists and analysts around

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<v Speaker 2>the world. And just moments ago, we got word from

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<v Speaker 2>a US appeals court.

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<v Speaker 3>This is breaking.

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<v Speaker 2>The court found the President's global tariffs were found to

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<v Speaker 2>be illegal. The court finding Trump ex seated his authority

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<v Speaker 2>in imposing the tariffs, upholding an earlier ruling by the

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<v Speaker 2>Court of International Trade that ruled Trump wrongfully invoked an

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<v Speaker 2>emergency law to issue the tariffs.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a major development.

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<v Speaker 2>At five point thirty pm Eastern time, whether US now

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss that and more? This evening's political panel Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 2>Politics contributors Rick Davis, partner at Stone Court Capital, are

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<v Speaker 2>Republican strategist alongside Democratic analyst Genie Shanzano, Democracy visiting fellow

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<v Speaker 2>at Harvard's Kennedy School's Ash Center. Rick Gie, he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know he'd be talking about this, but that's the way

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<v Speaker 2>it goes around here. The tariffs are illegal. Does Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump care? I think Donald Trump will care. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he likes to wide by the court.

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<v Speaker 1>He likes to show force right and the emergency powers

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<v Speaker 1>gave him that, but he does have other mechanisms to

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<v Speaker 1>implement some portion of those tariffs. He might not be

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<v Speaker 1>able to do all of them with every country that

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<v Speaker 1>he had had under a tariff regime, yes, but programs

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, Section three oh one in others give

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<v Speaker 1>him the ability alone, you know, the power of the

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<v Speaker 1>executive branch to implement some of those tariffs. So they'll

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<v Speaker 1>probably be a you know, new regime put into place.

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<v Speaker 1>While they appealed this decision.

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough, so over the weekend, Genie, these teriffs maybe lift,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the coming hours, the administration finds an alternative,

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<v Speaker 2>a different argument because it's the emergency that the court

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<v Speaker 2>is ruling.

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<v Speaker 4>On here, that's right, and that was always suspect, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know, reading the statue, it was very very hard

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<v Speaker 4>to imagine that the court would support a declaration of

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<v Speaker 4>an emergency. You know, he talked about an emergency for

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<v Speaker 4>things like the federal the trade deficit, for instance, but

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<v Speaker 4>yet that has been going on for decades and decades,

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<v Speaker 4>hardly constituting an emergency. So it was always an uphill

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<v Speaker 4>battle for the administration. They will certainly appeal, and of

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<v Speaker 4>course this is part of what the administration is going

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<v Speaker 4>to have to contend with and consumers and businesses around

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<v Speaker 4>the world, countries around the world. This uncertainty as it

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<v Speaker 4>pertains to tariffs. This is what the President took on

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<v Speaker 4>when he announced this regime. And we'll have to see

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<v Speaker 4>what the courts say as this moves forward.

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<v Speaker 2>So Genie points us back to uncertainty, and that's really

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<v Speaker 2>what this represents. Right, even if the President finds another

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<v Speaker 2>way to implement these very same levels of tariffs against countries,

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<v Speaker 2>we go into it a long weekend now with investors

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<v Speaker 2>wondering what the heck's going to happen next week.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, but that's what these tariffs have been like since

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<v Speaker 1>the day he started the Terifra game, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>like nobody has really known how long these tariffs would last.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had delay after delay, We've had changes in tariff rates.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is just more the same, you know, with

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<v Speaker 1>this this tariff program. And really other than the period

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<v Speaker 1>of time when Donald Trump issued the reciprocal tariffs that

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<v Speaker 1>were really punitive and the market you know, sort of

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<v Speaker 1>showed him their displeasure. Yeah, you really haven't seen much

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<v Speaker 1>of a market reaction since then.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is true, Genie, I wonder what the reaction

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<v Speaker 2>is with our trading partners. Why would Cheson Ping cut

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<v Speaker 2>a deal with the United States if the court just

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<v Speaker 2>did his work for him.

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<v Speaker 3>That's absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 4>And you look at both our competitors like China, our allies,

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<v Speaker 4>all of whom have been impacted by this. There's very

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<v Speaker 4>little incentive now to strike a deal with the court decision.

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, my friend Rick Davis, he loves to

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<v Speaker 4>talk about the consumer consumer sentiment, and that came out,

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<v Speaker 4>and one thing we learned was that consumers are very,

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<v Speaker 4>very concerned about the impact of these tariffs, much more

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<v Speaker 4>so than you look at some of the other things

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<v Speaker 4>that Donald Trump has been doing in the last few

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<v Speaker 4>months or first eight months.

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<v Speaker 3>Of his administration.

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<v Speaker 4>These tariffs, they are deadly afraid that they're going to

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<v Speaker 4>impact inflation and that they're going to impact employment. So

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<v Speaker 4>these have had enormous repercussions around the world right here

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<v Speaker 4>at home, and nobody, to your point now, Jijinping in particular,

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<v Speaker 4>has a reason to deal until this is resolved.

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<v Speaker 2>Headline on consumer sentiment, and that, by the way, is

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<v Speaker 2>your preferred index, Rick Davis, your preferred political indexel ads

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<v Speaker 2>Liding in August as Americans express heightened concerns about high prices.

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<v Speaker 2>How long can this go on for before we actually

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<v Speaker 2>see it in the data.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we're down below sixty on the Michigan Consumer Sentiment

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<v Speaker 1>Index and that's pretty low. And it doesn't surprise me

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<v Speaker 1>that you now see pulling data also showing that presidential

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<v Speaker 1>proof of ratings starting to dip. The Schumer sentiment index

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<v Speaker 1>is a precursor to political popularity, and I would say

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<v Speaker 1>this has got to be alarming to the White House

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<v Speaker 1>in advance of the midterm elections.

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<v Speaker 2>That's got to be true, Genie. You connect the dots

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<v Speaker 2>on this pretty easily here. And if the president's tariff

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<v Speaker 2>regime is overturned in court, if the tariffs go away,

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<v Speaker 2>to consumers respond in the other direction, because we've been

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<v Speaker 2>talking about fear and uncertainty all year, At what point

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<v Speaker 2>does this become definitive?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean it depends on what the president does next.

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<v Speaker 4>Does he use some of those other options that Rick

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<v Speaker 4>was talking about to pursue the same tariff regime?

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<v Speaker 3>Does he pull back? Hard to believe he.

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<v Speaker 4>Does, because as we've talked about, he's been committed to

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<v Speaker 4>tariffs almost his entire adult and certainly political life. But

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<v Speaker 4>this is, overall, I believe, very good news because the

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<v Speaker 4>tariff regime was being put in place for reasons that

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<v Speaker 4>were never clarified by the White House, and they were

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<v Speaker 4>against not just our competitors but our allies, and the

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<v Speaker 4>impacts have been tremendous, not to mention the uncertainty. So

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<v Speaker 4>I think the courts are doing Donald Trump a favor.

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<v Speaker 4>I doubt the White House is going to see it

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<v Speaker 4>that way.

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<v Speaker 2>You've made that point before when the courts have challenged

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<v Speaker 2>him Genie and in this case again, this is an

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<v Speaker 2>appeals court upholding a ruling by the Court of International Trade.

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<v Speaker 2>Does this go to the Supreme Court like everything else?

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't think the President will even betterny to

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<v Speaker 1>elevate this to a Supreme court that has really handed

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<v Speaker 1>him success after success in appeals that he's made to

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<v Speaker 1>the High Court. So absolutely, I don't think they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to waste a minute to have the Department of Justice

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<v Speaker 1>appeal this to the highest court in the land.

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<v Speaker 2>Would Republicans maybe take this up to codify the president's

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<v Speaker 2>tariffs and legislation that would change the picture here too

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<v Speaker 2>when they come back.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, again, I mean, there already is a set of

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<v Speaker 1>rules in place in the executive branch that he has

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<v Speaker 1>options to be able to exert. Pretty much the basic

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<v Speaker 1>tariffs of fifteen percent across the board would be something

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<v Speaker 1>he could probably put in place alone. So whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not he needs additional support, I would say there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of Republicans who've been pretty grumpy about this

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<v Speaker 1>tariff regime. I mean, even though Genie points out accurately

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<v Speaker 1>that Donald Trump likes it, there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans who are not fans of the tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe, like you say, Jeanie, the Court's done a

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<v Speaker 2>favor for him. But if Donald Trump brings this to

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<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court, he could have a more favorable bench. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>how does this end?

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<v Speaker 4>He absolutely could, He certainly has the majority on the Court,

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<v Speaker 4>although I have very much difficulty understanding how they could

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<v Speaker 4>take what he has said is the emergency and say

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<v Speaker 4>that it is truly an emergency. A trade deficit going

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<v Speaker 4>on for fifty years is not an emergency. So you

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<v Speaker 4>look at all of his public statements once again, can

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<v Speaker 4>work against him. Had he had an emergency to point

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<v Speaker 4>to to justify this, it may be different. But I

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<v Speaker 4>think even a very conservative Supreme Court is going to

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<v Speaker 4>have trouble overturning these Appellate court.

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<v Speaker 3>This Appellate Court decision.

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<v Speaker 2>It's interesting this comes just hours after the deminimus exemption

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<v Speaker 2>ended here, so people are potentially going to be feeling

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<v Speaker 2>although even Jared Bernstein himself thought that that was a

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<v Speaker 2>loophole that should be closed here. I don't know that

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<v Speaker 2>people who are waiting for their packages from she and

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<v Speaker 2>are going to see it that way though, are they?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think they're going to be expecting the worst

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<v Speaker 1>and they've gotten it already. So I don't think there's

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<v Speaker 1>an appeal within the process that anybody is going to

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<v Speaker 1>think is going to matter to them. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>think certainly those people who have been under these regimes

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be feeling like, let's just wait see

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<v Speaker 1>what this comes out. I mean, Genie's right. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think anybody's going to come to the table and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's renegotiate right now, sure, because they want to see

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not the president even has this authority going forward.

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<v Speaker 2>So Genie, trade talks are on ice then, right they are?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I mean, you can't imagine who would be

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<v Speaker 4>going to the table to talk until some of this

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<v Speaker 4>is resolved. And again, this is in our national interest

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<v Speaker 4>that this is on ice, and hopefully, in my view,

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<v Speaker 4>the Supreme Court keeps it that way if this case

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<v Speaker 4>does get there. Limited targeted tariffs make sense in certain situations.

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<v Speaker 4>Blanket tariffs against our allies when we are supposed to

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<v Speaker 4>be confronting and competing with China make very little sense.

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<v Speaker 4>And let's just look at what Jijinping is hosting with

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<v Speaker 4>North Korea, with Russia as we go into next week,

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<v Speaker 4>we have a competition on our hands.

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<v Speaker 3>This regime, as much as the.

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<v Speaker 4>President likes to talk about tariffs, doesn't benefit us when

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<v Speaker 4>it comes to our long term national security interests.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we'll find out where we're going on this one,

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<v Speaker 2>and it might take some time. Here we've got another

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<v Speaker 2>potential Supreme Court case on our hands, but we'll go

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<v Speaker 2>through it with the help of Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzo.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you both so much. The Court finding President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>exceeded his authority in imposing the tariffs, upholding an earlier

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<v Speaker 2>ruling by the Court of International Trade that said Trump

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<v Speaker 2>wrongfully invoked an emergency law to issue the tariffs. The

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<v Speaker 2>president's tariff regime to be clear, can continue as this

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<v Speaker 2>case proceeds. Mm hmm