1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: What's up his way up with Angela yea, And we 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: have Congressman James E. Cliburn with us today, a really 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: important time for you to be here. And you also 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: have this book, The First eight a personal history of 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: the pioneering Black congressman who shaped a nation. 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me. 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: And this is a. 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Great history lesson for me, you know, not being from 10 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: South Carolina and understanding the relevance and the huge role 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: that South Carolina has played when it comes to civil rights. 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: This was important as a read for me. 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad to hear that because I think that 14 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 3: people tend to believe that because of the way things 15 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: were reported along the way, South Carolina took on sort 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: of a waywardness. For instance, you know South Carolina mostly 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 3: because of the Civil War. Yeah, people will say, and 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: that's where the Civil War began. Well, if you look 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 3: at the history of the country, South Carolina is where 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 3: the real consequential battles of the Civil War, I mean 21 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 3: of the revolution near War took place. And you go 22 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 3: back and you look at where these real critical battles 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: were that really changed the fortunes of the revolution Near 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: War they were basically in South Carolina. Now, South Carolina 25 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 3: has never been a part of the whole media network. 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 3: You go to the Civil Rights era, what I call 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 3: the student movement, part of the civil Rights era because 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 3: there's been a civil rights fight ever since black people 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 3: came to this country in sixteen nineteen. But if you 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 3: go through that student era, when media began to dictate everything, 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: they focused on Mississippi, Alabama, and even Georgia. It was 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 3: never South Carolina. Though Brown v. Board of Education started 33 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: in South Carolina, and Brown the name came from Kansas, 34 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: and so people associated with Kansas. But the original case 35 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 3: Briggs v. Elliott, the people who found who signed the 36 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 3: original suit, they were from Cloudon County, South Carolina. I 37 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 3: grew up with those people and I knew them, and 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: I just look through history. And one of the reasons 39 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: I wanted to write this book is because just after 40 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: I finished my memoir that I call Blessed Experiences. And 41 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 3: the reason I called that book Blessed Experiences, there were 42 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: two reasons. One Blessed Assurance was my dad favorite him 43 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: and it seemed to really sent him to really dig 44 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: deep in himself. Easter spend all day Saturday, writing his sermons, 45 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: and he would be reading and writing and would always 46 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: be humming at him. And so it was sort of 47 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: and ode to my dad. But the second reason is 48 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: because I learned early that we can be no more, 49 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: no less than what our experiences allow us to be. 50 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: And I said in the introduction to the book, all 51 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: of my experiences have not been pleasant. Yeah, but I've 52 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: considered all of them to be blessings. I learned from those. 53 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: It wasn't pleasant to me. 54 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: Listen, you talk about that in the book as well. 55 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: Even look, I think sometimes we also think about how 56 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm from New York, right, and so even like that 57 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: Confederate flag still being placed amongst the flags, and that 58 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: was something that you wanted to fight against. But you 59 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: even would get some time threatening letters about things like that, 60 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and you talk about that in the book as well. 61 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: When you think about, you know, people sending threats to 62 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: your during your public service career, you said when you 63 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: were state Human Affairs commissioner, you got a letter in 64 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven by signed by a larger than you 65 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: think group and it told you they've heard you run 66 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: your mouth about our flag on the state House long enough. 67 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: Best to shut your mouth before somebody pops a bullet 68 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: between your eyes. I couldn't even imagine getting a letter 69 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: or letters, because I'm sure you've had cheval instances. 70 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: But you frame that. 71 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go to my office in Columbia right now, 72 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 3: you see that. And there were three other letters I 73 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: got in a big frame, and I call it all 74 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: in a day's work, yeah, because these threatening letters are there. 75 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 3: And then in the bottom right corner it's a letter 76 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 3: from a young lady who was in college and was 77 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 3: not going to be able to finish college. She had 78 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: one semester Togo and she was six hundred dollars short 79 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: of paying the tuition and they would not let her enroll. Well, 80 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: I gathered the resources to get her back in college, 81 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: and she wrote me this great letter about what that meant. 82 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: If that leader was the work walking here and there, 83 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: I would not know her. I don't remember her name, you, Yeah, 84 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: But that's the way I did things in South Carolina. 85 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 3: And so this book was all about that people should 86 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: know these. 87 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: People, right. 88 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: Yes, the first eight you made sure that you also 89 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: hung up their portraits. 90 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: All eight of them, all of my office. And what 91 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 3: incented me to do the book was visitors to my office. 92 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: One group came one day and they saw these pictures 93 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: and asked me who are these people? And when I 94 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 3: told them, one of them said, I thought you were 95 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: the first black person the serving Congress from South Carolina. 96 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: And I kind of playfully said, oh, no, before I 97 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 3: was first. There were eight. And I told my staff 98 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: that day my next book is going to be about 99 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: these eight people. And so I started writing the book, 100 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 3: just keeping a little that one really sick. 101 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: How long ago was this? 102 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I'm just hearing about because I'm thinking about the times 103 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: that we're in right now and the parallels that you 104 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: draw from twenty twenty five, you know, to back in 105 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. 106 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: Well, this incident took place about eight or nine years ago. 107 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: My memoir was published ten years ago, twenty fifteen, and 108 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 3: this conversation took place a year so later, right after 109 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 3: I became whip the first time. That's when I first 110 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: put all the pictures up. Well, in the middle of 111 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: writing this book, twenty twenty elections game and the reaction 112 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 3: to you to the twenty twenty elections so familiar to me, 113 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: I said, no, people, you know, people were asking me 114 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: all the time, have you ever seen anything like this before. 115 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 3: I says, no, that's only because I wasn't living in 116 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 3: eighteen seventy six when it was just like this. I 117 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: recognized it. I used to teach the stuff, and I said, 118 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: wait a minute. They're trying to overturn this election and 119 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: doing it by using a playbook from eighteen seventy six 120 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: president's election. And New York played a role in that 121 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: because the two candidates for president at that time were 122 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: from New York and Ohio, and the New York guy 123 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: came up one vote shop Samuel Tilden in the Electoral 124 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: College at that time, you needed one eighty five, he 125 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: had one eighty four. Rather be Hays from Ohio. The 126 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: Republican had won sixty five, so he was twenty vote. 127 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: Shaw Well, the deal was cut, not to give up 128 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 3: too much, that's in the book, but the deal was 129 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: cut for Hayes to get those votes, which meant those 130 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 3: twenty votes allowed him to go from one sixty five 131 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 3: to won eighty five. He became president by one vote. 132 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: So anybody that tells you one vote does not matter, 133 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: tell him about this story, right, because what happened when 134 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 3: he became president by one eighty five the one ate 135 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 3: it for he brought an into reconstruction. That's the promise 136 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 3: he made. Y'all give me these twenty. 137 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 2: Votes and I'm gonna do what you need me to do. 138 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 3: I'm gonna do what you need to do. 139 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: How hard is it in politics to not do what 140 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: people need you to do? That are the ones that 141 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: are funding campaigns, because I've always felt like politicians can 142 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: have the best intentions, but then there's some type of 143 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: accountability when somebody elects you and there's people that are 144 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: funding you, and there's certain things that they have expectations of, 145 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: like what is the balance with that? 146 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 3: Well, that's the way that society is set up, and 147 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: that's what we are where you and I come in 148 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: and we have to fight off that. Because I used 149 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 3: to be in this business. My daughter was my partner 150 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: who's here with me today, Mignon and I. That's not 151 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 3: the daughter in the corner there, but we were in 152 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: this business. And I can tell to you, I know 153 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 3: what it is when you are the pun advertising this 154 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: grocery store. You want them to get a full page 155 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 3: adding your newspaper, and all of a sudden, the owner 156 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 3: of the grocery store wants you to say something or 157 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: write something favorable. So I know what that pressure is. 158 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: Those pressures are in the media, and they're in politics, 159 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: and they're in the church. We'll help you with your fundraiser, 160 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 3: your building fund, but we need favorable sermons coming from you. 161 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: My father was a minister. I grew up in apostles, 162 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: so I know about all these pressures, and so I 163 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: step back when people tell me, oh, we don't have 164 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: that kind of pressure. Come on, what just happened with 165 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: to the Washington Post, the owner of the Washington Post. 166 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Even these TV networks right now, absolutely that's been yeah, yeah. 167 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: You know, Kamala Harris was being endorsed by the Washington 168 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: Post until the owner of the Post said, oh, no, 169 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 3: went doing that. He knicks the endorsement. And now we 170 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: know who won. And now all of a sudden, the 171 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: Washington Post, we are fact tricking them all. And I 172 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 3: was on the train coming up here with Eugene Robinson, 173 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: who is from South Carolina. But Eugene says, no, no, 174 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 3: I'm not taking this. I'm resigning. And he is an 175 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 3: opinion writer for the Washington Post. So these things are 176 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 3: in the system, and that's what happened to these guys. Yeah, yeah, 177 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 3: I wish you could see the headlines when you read 178 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 3: this book. You're gonna see the headlines about them, what 179 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: they're are saying about these guys, and some people believe it. 180 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the media plays such an important role. 181 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: I feel like there's more misinformation than ever, just because 182 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: there's so much access for anybody to write anything, and 183 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: it's so hard to understand as an average person what's 184 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: real and what's not. Like we hear we're upset that 185 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: there's Democrats who have sided with the Republicans without coming 186 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: to an official resolution on what's happening with the Affordable 187 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: Care Act of what type of health plan is in 188 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: place for people, so their insurance isn't going to triple 189 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: in January, and we're hearing, well, some people are like, well, 190 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: they should have done that because Trump is not going 191 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: to budge and they'll fight this out in December. But 192 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you, because, like I said, 193 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: we hear all these different things depending on what network 194 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: you're watching or who you're listening to, but you're in it. 195 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of it, and I don't fear 196 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: it at all. I think I realished the battle But 197 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: the fact is, this is never it's not People don't 198 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: realize this because most people don't think about these things. 199 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 3: But we just heard a proposal coming from this president 200 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: saying that what he would like to see to address 201 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: affordable housing is. 202 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: It fifty year mortgage, fifty year market, which is insane. 203 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: We'll never have equity, you'll never own your home. The 204 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: banks will get rich. 205 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Now you watch and see how many people go 206 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: out there and start talking about the fifty year mortgage. 207 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: It means you buy a four hundred thousand dollars house 208 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 3: and over that fifty year period of the margage is 209 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 3: about one point two million that you pay for the house. 210 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 3: Now subtract four hundred thousand from one point two million, 211 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 3: you got eight hundred thousand dollars. That's going to somebody. 212 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 3: Who is that somebody or who are those somebodies that 213 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: will make all the money off the eight of one 214 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 3: thousand dollars house. And you will never have equity in 215 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 3: the house. You would never be able to pass equity. 216 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: Rates will be crazy on that. 217 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: It a loan is that's exactly right now, that's not new. 218 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 3: When Social Security first came online in the nineteen thirties, 219 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 3: it was regarded as the greatest poverty program ever. But 220 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 3: when Social Security went online, people who were in domestic 221 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: employment or people who were in agriculture employment were not 222 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: allowed into Social Security. Sixty five percent of the black 223 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: folks in this country were in those two fields, which 224 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: meant on the thirty five percent of the black people 225 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: in this country were ELSI belefore social Security. But that's 226 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: not the worst because at the time that they put 227 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 3: Social Security in place, which is why they have never 228 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 3: been a fan of Franklin Roosevelt, they would set the 229 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: retirement age at sixty five. What was life expectancy of 230 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 3: black people in nineteen thirties, fifty eight, which meant that nobody, 231 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: no black person was ever going to get the benefit. 232 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 3: Theoretically not some people live beyond fifty five, but theoretically 233 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: you were not supposed to get the benefit. So what 234 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 3: it means you gonna pay all your life in the 235 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: Social Security but pime you get to the year you're 236 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: gonna be dead. 237 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting to me that we think 238 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: about like getting people out to vote and reading this book, 239 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: and I know we always say that like we really 240 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: fought and people died for our right to vote. But 241 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: when you see how people were intimidated by the ku 242 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: Klux Klan, I mean and still manage though to get 243 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: out and vote and do with it. But no matter what, 244 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: like moving where the ballot box was, all of the 245 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: different tactics that were used, it's interesting to me to 246 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: see how people are not going out just seeing how 247 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: people fought for that. And I know it's cliche because 248 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: everyone says that, but when you really see these stories 249 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: about the ku Klux Klan, how they came up into existence, 250 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: and the tactics that they were using to make sure 251 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: that voices weren't heard, I feel like sometimes we don't 252 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: fight hard enough today. 253 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: Oh you're right about that, and what we have to do. 254 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: And what this book is all about is showing you 255 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: that this is not new. Back then, when they form 256 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: all of these they call them the rifle clubs, the 257 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: kooklus Clang in some places, basically in Tennessee, though they 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: came to South Carolina. They were throughout the South, these 259 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: rifle clubs. They are no longer in existence for that purpose, 260 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: but we now got the Proud Boys. They're thereby other names. 261 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: When they did this back in the eighteen seventies at 262 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: the time that this book covers, they told everybody wear 263 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: red shirts. 264 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: They were called the red shirts. 265 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: Today wear red caps or red ties. The most things changed, 266 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: The mothers stayed the same. And I'll tell you something else. 267 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 3: You might be wondering, why is it this president is 268 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: calling on the National Guard. 269 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 2: Read this book and you will see how the national 270 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: the National. 271 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: Guard was used the so called Hamlin massacre. It was 272 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 3: all about the national gods. And these confrontations that you 273 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: see being formed by ice, these are the same kinds 274 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: of confrontations that were used back in these eighteen seventies. So, 275 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: as I said, I'm in the middle of writing this book, 276 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, this stuff starts happening. 277 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: The Amnesty Act. 278 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: You talk about that, and the comparison to the Amnesty 279 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: Act and the January sixth insurrection at the US Capitol. 280 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: And all those people who led the insurrections against the 281 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 3: government were pardoned by President Andrew Johnson. As soon as 282 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 3: Abraham Lincoln was murdered. He is should pardon to all 283 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 3: those people. Does that sound for me? 284 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure does. And you were there at the Capitol. 285 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: You had to evacuate at that time. How is it 286 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: sitting in the same spaces with people that you know, 287 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: we're calling I just don't know how. I mean, I 288 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: know it's part of what comes with the job, but mentally, 289 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: how is. 290 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: That for you? 291 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: Tough? There are some people that don't sit with and 292 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 3: you know, I know it's not a blanket against Republicans. 293 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 3: My mother and father were Republicans, but this is not 294 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 3: the Republican party they were in. People don't look at 295 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 3: this history and therefore they don't understand that all eight 296 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: of these people in. 297 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: This book were Republicans. 298 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: There were Republicans, which is so weird to get used 299 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: to reading these black people were Republicans. And how things switched, 300 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: you know, the way that they have to day with 301 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: Democrats being the party that cares more about people. 302 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you in simple terms what happened. 303 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 3: In nineteen forty eight. The Democratic Party decided that it 304 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: was going to chart a new direction. And when they did, 305 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: strom Thurmann was the leader from South Carolina. He bolted 306 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party. He formed the States Rights Party. He 307 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 3: ran for president against Harrod Truman. Harrod Truman was a 308 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 3: Democrat who went He was the first president to address 309 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 3: the NAACP, he integrated armed services, he did everything that 310 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 3: black folks were trying to get Roosevelt to do it, 311 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 3: and Roosevelt wouldn't do it. And so when this happened, 312 00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 3: and then followed by a speech by Hubert Humphrey, they 313 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: decided they were gonna leave the Democratic Party. So all 314 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 3: of these people who were white supremacists that I call 315 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: in the book redeemers trying to redeem the South through 316 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 3: his pre Civil War days, all of these people left 317 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party and they went over and took the 318 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: Republican Party from black folks because black folks were basically Republicans, 319 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: and drove them out. They took over the party. So 320 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: the Democrats that were left where they pro civil rights democrats. 321 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: So then they had to build up a party and 322 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 3: it lasted right up to Kennedy and Johnson, and then 323 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: Johnson culminated it. I'm talking about Lyndon Johnson, not Andrew Johnson. 324 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 3: Lyndon Johnson then got the Civil Rights Act passed in 325 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 3: sixty four, the Voting Rights Act in sixty five, the 326 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 3: fay House Law in sixty eight, and every time he 327 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 3: passed the law, another Republican got mad, and they all left, 328 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: and so they're now camped out in the Republican Party. 329 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: So it's very easy to see what happened. And so 330 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: when people tell you, oh, you know, I'm a good Republican, 331 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 3: Martin Luther King Junior was a Republican. I don't know 332 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 3: if Martin Luther King Jr. Was a Republican, but I 333 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 3: know his daddy was. 334 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: Right. 335 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the history of it that people have to 336 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: understand because people put these statements out there with no 337 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: type of context, no. 338 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 3: Type of context at all, and people run with it 339 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 3: and they get it looped out here in the media 340 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: and people intelligent people should know better, and they seem 341 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: not to pay attention to it, but I do. 342 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: So, what do you think needs to happen now, just 343 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: because we're in the midst of all of this, and 344 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: I know that there is this people are going through 345 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: it right now, out with benefits cut, with people not 346 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: getting paid to work, with a lot of things being 347 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: more difficult. We also have tariffs on top of everything else, 348 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: a lot of things that we're battling right now. And 349 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: then of course healthcare, which is a huge, huge issue, 350 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: which in January, people will really see what type of 351 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: issue that is, if things don't happen, what should we 352 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: be looking for to happen? 353 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 2: Now? Would you say, can that be basically just for 354 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 2: a moment? Yeah. 355 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: I stayed married to the same woman for fifty eight years. 356 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 3: We had a lot of disagreements. We were not always 357 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 3: on the same page. You do not have to have 358 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 3: unanimous thought to have unity. My late wife and I 359 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 3: were always unified. I have now three daughters grown, I 360 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 3: have four grandchildren. We have discussions, we have disagreements, and 361 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: we talk through those disagreements. What we do know is 362 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 3: that it's us against the world. And that's the basic 363 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 3: stuff you have to apply to politics. Which party does 364 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 3: the most for your basic needs? It may not do everything. 365 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 3: You know, it's this whole thing. We get angry about 366 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 3: one issue, and I says, okay, I did show the 367 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: last night that someone was telling me about the price 368 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: of age going down and the price of bread or something. 369 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: I forgot that. I said, okay, what about the price 370 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: of milk? So you have to balance everything. And so 371 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: I think that what we have to do in politics 372 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 3: is learn you are not going together one hundred percent 373 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 3: of what you want out of this process us, So 374 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 3: you balance the interest. He says, Okay, I'm getting ten 375 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 3: percent of what this part over here has offered me 376 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 3: ten percent. This part of it is offered me seventy percent. 377 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 2: Which would you take right? 378 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 3: So why do you make your decisions about the seven 379 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 3: percent part are based upon the ten percent that you 380 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: get from the other side. 381 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: I think it's also interesting that when we vote, we 382 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: also that's just part of the job. There's other things 383 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: that we're also responsible for doing, which is holding people 384 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: accountable for what it is that we need and want. 385 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: You can't just sit back and be like this didn't happen. 386 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: Like there's certain actions that people can take and be 387 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: vocal about it to make things happen. And I think 388 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: it's important to show up, like I posted town halls 389 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's pretty empty here. But people have 390 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: things that they need and that they want, but they 391 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: just expect things to just happen and it doesn't really 392 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: work like that. 393 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 2: Even encouraging people to run for. 394 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: Office that you would like to see in office, and 395 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: you actually ran for office several times before you actually landed. 396 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 3: I lost three times, and the friend of mine came 397 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: to me and says, what you gonna do now? You know, 398 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: they say three strikes and you're out. I said, nobody 399 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 3: should live their lives by baseball rules. That's a baseball rule. 400 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: And I don't care how many days your mother and father, 401 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 3: I know how many times you heard to say it. 402 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: If at first you don't succeed, you try and try again. 403 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 3: They didn't say try one more time or two more times, 404 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 3: no numerical limit. If I had quit after losing three times, 405 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 3: I never become the number three guy in the United 406 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 3: State's House, a representative, which is what I became. Wollman 407 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: number four technically, but on the Democratic side, number three. Now, 408 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 3: when you look at this and I try to say 409 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 3: to young people all the time, I just got out 410 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 3: the form of my grandson earlier today. He's thirty two 411 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: years old, and he called me because he wants to know, 412 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: how are you going to vote on this bill that 413 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: the sinder just passed last night and then you're gonna 414 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 3: vote on tomorrow? And I walked them through why I'm 415 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 3: gonna vote no. And I might tell your listeners I'm 416 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 3: voting know simply because this guy says we're gonna put 417 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 3: this bill on the floor, and I'm not gonna guarantee anything. Well, 418 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 3: you can guarantee the votes that I need to break 419 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 3: the filibuster, even if you aren't for the bill. So 420 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 3: don't tell me you're gonna put something on the floor 421 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 3: and then you allow the filibuster to keep it from 422 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 3: coming to a vote. You just got eight votes from 423 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 3: the Democratic side to cut off the filibuster so that 424 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 3: you can get your fifty one votes. Well give us 425 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 3: thirteen votes on the other side to cut off the 426 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 3: filibuster and let us take our chances on whether or not 427 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 3: we get fifty one votes. No promises been made to that. 428 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 3: So my whole thing is be clear, yeah, with what 429 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: you're going to do, and be subjective with all of this, 430 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 3: and so that's why I'm going to vote no. 431 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting too, because I've seen a lot 432 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: of conversations about how people expect that Democrats are always 433 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: going to be the ones that have to be responsible 434 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: and get blamed for a lot of different things that 435 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: are going on for what they haven't done, but Republicans 436 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: aren't held to the same standard. It's because your expectations 437 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: are low for what people expect, and I feel like 438 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: also going on the record for what it is that 439 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: you stand for for your constituents who are also suffering 440 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: because more Republicans, you know, their base is also having 441 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: issues too. It's not like everybody's doing well there. They're 442 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: not all the one percent, most of them are not. 443 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: And so to see that their whole base is suffering. 444 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: And we've seen, I think with these last elections too, 445 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: what the results of that can be. You know, there 446 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: are some things that actually can end up being something 447 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: that's a bonus in the midst of all of this. 448 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 2: If that makes it well, it makes a whole lot 449 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: of sense. 450 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: You know. Look, you talked about health care, the Affordable 451 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 3: Care Act. No matter what they missage to the contrary, 452 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 3: it was to make health care affordable. Well, the make 453 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 3: it cheaper, as people says, No, it was a maket affordable. 454 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: So why do we say, because there's this cost, we 455 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 3: are going to get rid of the Affordable Care Act? 456 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 3: What will you put in this place? 457 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: There's no plan, There is no plancy. Marjorie Till, the 458 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: Green who never would think would be talking about that, 459 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: discussing how upset she is that there's no plan. 460 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 3: There's no plan. Why because they don't plan to make 461 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: a plan. My late wife suffered the diabetes for thirty years. 462 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: I saw her insulent deal anyway from six to eight 463 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 3: hundred dollars every month. She was a full shot a 464 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 3: day diabetic. So for thirty about fifty eight years she 465 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: battled diabetes. Now she died from diabetes only after a 466 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 3: heart attack that required five vessel bypass surgery, back surgery, 467 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 3: total kidney failure, and a stroke. Now without insurance, wherever 468 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 3: she be, without medicare, whoever she be, without security, all 469 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: of these things are under attack by the Republican Party. 470 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 3: And so why do you tell me you see some 471 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 3: value in supporting the Republican Party when the party that 472 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 3: is advocating all of this is a Democratic party. So 473 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: this whole thing is so crazy to me, and I 474 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: don't understand. It's so simple. You may not need it. 475 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: Right now. You never know when you'll need it, never know. 476 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: And so one of the reasons that people end up, 477 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, going broke, is because of health care. 478 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: That's one of the main reasons. 479 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: Is the main reason that people end up in And. 480 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: You don't anticipate it. It's not anything you could predict. 481 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Nobody thinks one day I'll be sick. One day I 482 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: have to go to the hospital. One day, I'll have 483 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: an emergency, one day I'll need surgery. You don't really 484 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: think that ever. 485 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 3: No, you never, You never plan to be sick, but 486 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 3: you should ensure against what the consequences are of that. 487 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 3: And that's why we have these kinds of efforts, lack 488 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 3: the Affordable Care of Act. Nobody plans to be denied housing, 489 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 3: and that's why you have fair housing laws, not because 490 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 3: you planned it, because there's somebody who may be planning 491 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 3: against your heaven these things. Oh Luther, can't you just 492 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 3: say it all the time. The law can make you 493 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: love me, but the loss sure can keep you from 494 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: harming me. And that's what we're trying to do here. 495 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 3: So when people come up with all this crazy stuff 496 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 3: about the law won't do this, and law won't do that, 497 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: The law will not do a whole lot of things. 498 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: But if I have healthcare and healthy enough to work, 499 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 3: then I can. 500 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I fundamental things like it's not even 501 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: nobody's asking for nothing crazy, it's fundamental rights that we 502 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: should have. You know, when you talk about this first 503 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: eight in this book that you have right now, I 504 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: want to know who you relate to the most. You know, 505 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: you characterize one is a persuader, one is the appeaser, 506 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: one is the orator. And the different degrees of success 507 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: that they have. Dealing with the quote redeemer Democrats, which 508 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: is like Mega, right, which we would compared to Mega, 509 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: how would you characterize your style? 510 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 3: I am basically a combination of several of them. Thomas Miller, 511 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: who was number seven among the eight. Thomas Miller was 512 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 3: the first president of South Carolina State. When he got 513 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 3: kicked out of Congress, he became the first president of 514 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 3: what is now South Carolina State. The school that I 515 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:31,239 Speaker 3: graduated from, Robert Small's. In so many instances, he had 516 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 3: the guts, he rad. 517 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 2: His life, Yeah, absolutely life. 518 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 3: Oh he was arrested, put in jail. All of these 519 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 3: guys were subjected to the stuffs. So throughout the years 520 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 3: I have associated with many of the guys here. In fact, 521 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 3: Richard Kane, who used to preach right here Bridge bridget Church, 522 00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 3: he left New York and went to Chompston. He's the 523 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 3: one that re established emanually Amy Church. He's the founder. Absolutely. 524 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: So I look at a combination of all of them, 525 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: and I can see a lot and I've picked up 526 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 3: a lot from them. I've also looked at them and 527 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 3: decided which one of them I did not want to be. 528 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 2: Let me guess. 529 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: Well, the Large my least favorite person. 530 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: I could tell. 531 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so one of the reason I wanted this book, yeah, 532 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 3: because I want uh people like yourself to look at 533 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 3: these guys, see what they went through. And this is 534 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 3: not to say that they were perfect. They were not. 535 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 3: They did not all get along with each other. They 536 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: had their individual differences. But I'll tell you this, even 537 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 3: the Lodge, Robert Brown Elliott literally hited the Lodge, and 538 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 3: he really says some horrible things about them, and you 539 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 3: find it in this book. But the Large got in 540 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 3: trouble and they were trying to kick him out of office. 541 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 3: Who represented him, Robert Brown Eliot, and to keep them 542 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 3: from kicking him out of office. And they didn't kick 543 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 3: him out of office, but because he had become so 544 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 3: obnoxious to so many people, he got voted out of office. 545 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 3: And he too had real serious health problems. He died 546 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 3: at thirty nine years old. 547 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: I want to, you know, before we wrap this, I 548 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: want to talk about something else, he said in the book. Today, 549 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: some sixty years after the Advanceags of the nineteen sixties. 550 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: We are again witnessing. 551 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: Parallels to the backlash of the first reconstruction, and for 552 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: similar reasons, census officials project that white Americans will become 553 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: a minority of the US population by twenty forty five. 554 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: Some feel uneasy about these changing demographics and are directing 555 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: their insecurities at governmental efforts such as affirmative action and 556 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: other diversity, equity and inclusion programs, which are rapidly being dismantled. 557 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,280 Speaker 1: Much of the potential rhetoric on the far right teams 558 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: designed to divide, exclude, and insult rather than honor America's 559 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: motto e plaribus unum out of many one. The political 560 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: pendulum is again moving to the right. The question is 561 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: how far will it go and for how long? If 562 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: you had to predict the answer to that question, what 563 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: would you say, Well, because I'm wondering how long is 564 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: this going on? 565 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 2: And when is this coming to like? What are we 566 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: doing about it? 567 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: Well, I would say this. One of the reasons for 568 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 3: the book is to ask have we learned the lessons 569 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 3: of history or or we gonna allow ourselves to repeat them. 570 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 3: These people at one point, South Carolina at five Congress 571 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 3: people representing the state in Washington. Of that five four 572 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 3: we're black. Four of these people served along with one 573 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 3: white guy that was in the eighteen seven And what 574 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 3: happened in eighteen nineties because of rogue Supreme Court it 575 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: went to zero. So it meant that when the pendulum 576 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 3: went right that time, it was ninety five years before 577 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 3: I came along. Now the question is are we going 578 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 3: to do what is necessary to interrupt that right would 579 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 3: shift that pendulum going to the right. Are we going 580 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 3: to turn up at the polls when it's time to vote, 581 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 3: or were going to sit down with candidates and make 582 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 3: sure that we get people in office who are dedicated 583 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 3: to the dreams and aspirations that you want for your 584 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 3: children and your grandchildren. Or are you going to sit 585 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 3: back and say this too shall pass. My daddy was 586 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 3: a minister and he used to sit to me all 587 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 3: the time. Son, you pray every day, but you pray 588 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 3: for good health and strength, and if the good law 589 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 3: gives you some modicum of that, get up off your 590 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 3: knees and work like hell. That was his motto. And 591 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 3: I believe that today this whole thing about just leave 592 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 3: it up to the Lord. This too shall pass. No. 593 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 3: When Barack Obama was elected president, he was elected president 594 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 3: with a record turnout at the post. 595 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, mom, Donnie, right now in New York, more people 596 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: have voted than we've seen vote, especially in early voting. 597 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely, but let me tell you what we have to 598 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 3: be careful of. You turn out in record numbers to 599 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 3: elect somebody, and then when it comes down for re election, 600 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,919 Speaker 3: we decide that we've done our job. When we won 601 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 3: with Bill Clinton, it was a record turnout at that time. 602 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 3: Two years later we lost fifty six Democrats, and the 603 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 3: Republics got the same for it in nineteen ninety four. 604 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 3: They got in nineteen ninety two, but the black turnout 605 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four was weighed down from nineteen ninety two. 606 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 3: Same thing happened with Obama. Obama got elected in two 607 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 3: thousand and eight, a record turnout. In two thousand and ten, 608 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 3: we lost fifty some of our seats. Why because it 609 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 3: turnout in ninety ten was weighed down from eight. So 610 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 3: the attitude was, well, we've elected Obama, he's gonna do 611 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 3: it for us. No, he's got to have a supporting cast. 612 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 3: During the four years that Obama was president, we lost 613 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 3: one thousand and fifty legislative seats across the country. Now, 614 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 3: what does that mean. We know what happened redistricted, because 615 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 3: redistricting takes place at the legislative level back in the states. 616 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 3: And so I'm now the last Democrat left when I 617 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 3: went to when I came to Congress, I was one Democrat. 618 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 3: John Spratt was there. We had a Democrat in the 619 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 3: third Congression on district Butler Derreck was there. We had more. 620 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 3: Frich Hollins was in the Senate. 621 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 2: And we see this in Texas. 622 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 3: Now Texas is going the same way. So the point 623 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 3: I'm making is you cannot sit back after the election 624 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 3: that says I don't need the voting anymore, because when 625 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 3: you don't show up at the polls, you may not 626 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 3: have the president of the ballot. And that's why I 627 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 3: love so much about what happened with Mandomic, what happened 628 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 3: over in New Jersey. 629 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 630 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: Uh, In fact, she called me yesterday and yeah, I 631 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 3: was driving along he is. She said, you know, when 632 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 3: I started feeling good about this election, just someone told 633 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 3: me when you left New Jersey, you told them because 634 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 3: you were not worried about this election, that you analyzed 635 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 3: it was that I was going to win this race, 636 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 3: and I started feeling better about it. 637 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 2: That's what she told me. 638 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 3: Well, Mom, now now what she was going to win 639 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 3: because I feel it, see it. 640 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 2: You're like the whisperer when it comes to you. 641 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 3: There's some things I don't know that I don't know 642 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 3: some things, but I well, I think that I didn't know. 643 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 2: You know it? 644 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: Yes, And seeing Mary Sheffield in Detroit that was really exciting. 645 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely, her dad is a preature too. 646 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 2: Yes, I know her. 647 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 3: You learned a lot of things growing up in Apostas. 648 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I love it, and well, I appreciate you. 649 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: I really am such a fan, so it was exciting 650 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: for me. I could talk to you all day. I 651 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: know you have a lot going on. I know, sure 652 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: we're back at it, but I appreciate this book. I'm 653 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: such a fan of reading like true stories history, understanding history, 654 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: potentially repeating itself as it has been, but also knowing 655 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: like what we're standing on. You're standing on the first 656 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: eight right in South Carolina, and we need to know 657 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: that history of South Carolina. You've been in office for 658 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: over thirty years and just making some great, amazing positive 659 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: changes but we all got to make sure that we 660 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: support that too. I saw you talking about Hakeem Jeffries 661 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: also on MSNBC earlier and just discussing because I feel 662 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: like he gets a lot of criticism for not being 663 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: more vocal, stronger, and they say, you know, Democrats need 664 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: to fight harder and stop trying to do things by 665 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: the book all the time. 666 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 3: Well, Hakim is a great leader. He has a tremendous 667 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 3: ability to keep our callers together a big tent. You've 668 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 3: got to be able to allow a diversity of thought 669 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 3: to exist under that tent. And I'll close to this. 670 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 3: I mentioned earlier that I have three daughters. Those three 671 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 3: girls are as different as night and day. Mignoni is 672 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 3: with me on this trip. Mignon is a very independent thinker. 673 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 3: I don't think she's ever said she's over sixty years old. 674 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 3: She'd never said the contrary word to me in her life. 675 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 3: But she keeps counsel to herself. When we're in business together. 676 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 3: I used to tell her what we want to do 677 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 3: and she would agree. But when that newspaper came out, 678 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,760 Speaker 3: he was exactly the way she wanted to do it. 679 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 3: But that's the way she is Jennifer married you children, 680 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 3: and she's a grandmother. But Jennifer is always calling me, 681 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 3: as she did yesterday with a suggestion and sent me 682 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 3: a textives morning, always wanting advice for me. I said 683 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 3: to her one time, Jennifer, go ask your husband and 684 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 3: I give you away. That's it. My youngest daughter, Angela 685 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 3: is so contrary. I don't care what you said answer. 686 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 3: She's gonna have the last words. You just have to 687 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 3: just accept the fact that it may not be you 688 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 3: may not be able to understand it, but she's gonna 689 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 3: mumble the last word. I don't treat them the same way. 690 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 3: They're different. I treat them according to their needs. Angela 691 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 3: needs things that Mignon does not need, So why would 692 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 3: I waste on Mignon that which Angela needs. So your 693 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 3: love is based upon the need. And that's the way 694 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 3: Hakeen is. He recognizes that he's got a big tent party, 695 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 3: and there are people in the South who cannot say 696 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 3: things that you might be able to get away with 697 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 3: saying in the now, and the same thing for the 698 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,320 Speaker 3: East and the West. So keep the tent big enough, 699 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 3: keep the atmosphere that exists in the tent of such 700 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 3: that everybody under it can feel comfortable working with each 701 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 3: other to find common ground. That's just the way the 702 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 3: guy is. I appreciate the other about him. I spend 703 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 3: a lot of time with him, and I do believe 704 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 3: that is where success is. If you think that all 705 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,439 Speaker 3: you need is somebody cursing somebody, eut. You will never 706 00:44:53,520 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 3: hear me publicly using profanity. I don't do. 707 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 4: It privately, I know, yeah, because you got to keep 708 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 4: the atmosphere right. 709 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 3: Because you know, I can say something you're in private, 710 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 3: and it's one thing. I said the same thing that 711 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,399 Speaker 3: you in public, it's a whole different thing. And that's 712 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 3: the way how I came miss And so I would 713 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 3: say to people, Look, give the guy benefit for trying 714 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 3: to take We got about fifteen Caucasus within the Democratic Caucus, 715 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:47,840 Speaker 3: the Black Caucus, Hispanic Caucus, Asian Pacific Islanders, Progressive Caucus, 716 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 3: the Blue Dogs. We just got a bunch of them. 717 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 3: He's got to keep all of them together. On the 718 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 3: other side, the all CORTI to the Americas. 719 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they all fell in line. Oh yeah, it don't matter. 720 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: They could know what's wrong, but they're going to be 721 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: right there, right in line, all right, well, thank you 722 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: so much. I appreciate you for coming through. This was 723 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: such an honor to have you. The first eight a 724 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,919 Speaker 1: personal history of the pioneering black congressman who shaped a nation. 725 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: I learned so much from reading this. I thank you 726 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: for that, and I thank you for coming here today. 727 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 3: I appreciate it. 728 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 2: All right, it's way up