1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 2: September twenty second, twenty twelve may have been the first 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 2: day of autumn, but it was a warm afternoon in. 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Washington, DC. 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: A charter bus pulled to the curb at the edge 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: of Lincoln Park and its passengers piled out, all fourteen 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: of them. Most of the attendees of that day's rally 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: were dressed alike, black pants and a blue button up 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: shirt with a black tie, the uniform of the Aryan Nations. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: They'd denounced the rally months ahead of time, giving DC 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: locals ample time to plan their counter protest. Hundreds of 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: people showed up to see what turned out to be 13 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: barely a dozen neo Nazis. The tiny group marched the 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: mile and a half from the park to the Capital 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: Reflecting Pool, safely escorted by hundreds of police officers from 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 2: the DC Metropolitan Police, US Park Police, and the US 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: Capitol Police. Dozens of officers on bicycles and on horseback 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: flanked the little march, keeping counter protesters at bay. A 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 2: fax of Capitol Police in riot gear marched alongside them, 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: far outnumbering the actual marchers. When they reached their destination, 21 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: they were escorted into a little pen surrounded by barricades, 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: with the Capitol building in the background, surrounded by angry 23 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: counter protesters and curious tourists. ARAN Nations member Ryan Mullins 24 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: tried to address the crowd with a megaphone, but he 25 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: was almost completely drowned out by chance of Nazi scum. 26 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: If he did manage to give a speech about the 27 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 2: plight of the white South African farmer, he'd saw most 28 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: certain no one actually heard it. But just behind him 29 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: the rally goers were holding a banner that read stop 30 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 2: White Genocide in South Africa, and standing between the two 31 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: nearly identical bald men dressed all in black holding either 32 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: end of that banner was an old woman. 33 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: She stood out in the. 34 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: Small crowd not only as the only woman, but because 35 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: she was wearing a neatly pressed Khaki uniform. 36 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: It had been nearly. 37 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: Twenty years since the fall of the apartheid regime, and 38 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: over a decade since she'd married an American and moved 39 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: to Louisiana, but it seems Monica huggets Stone still had 40 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: her Africaner Resistance Movement uniform in the back of her closet. 41 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger. 42 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: This it's weird, little guys. 43 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: We are nearing the end of the story of Monica 44 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: huggets Stone. Not because I'm done digging. I could write 45 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 2: half a dozen more episodes, but because I think you'll 46 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 2: start to get restless if I keep trying to tell 47 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: the same story for months at a time. I know 48 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: I keep saying this, but it's always true. I really 49 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: thought this was going to be a two parter, starting 50 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: with those rallies in twenty twelve, talking about the model 51 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: resurgence of the white genocide conspiracy theory rhetoric couched in 52 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: this concern for the largely imaginary murders of South African farmers, 53 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: and then just a brief retrospective on the woman behind 54 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: those rallies. I could not possibly have predicted that there 55 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: would be so much international intrigue buried in her past. 56 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: I certainly didn't expect to spend the last month translating 57 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: fifty year old white supremacist newspapers from Afrikaans, or pouring 58 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: over thirty year old memos in Croatian tapped out on 59 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: typewriters by dead war criminals. I had no idea that 60 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: a German neo Nazi blew up a United Nations office 61 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: in Namibia, or that a South African accomplice still coaches 62 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: rugby in Cambridgeshire, evading an international arrest warrant. How could 63 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: I have known? But now we do. History is a 64 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: strange and messy thing, and I suppose it's only fair 65 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: to give you a brief recap here at the top 66 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: before we start approaching the end. You might need a 67 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: reminder of where we've been. The first episode in this 68 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 2: series was about an event that took place in February 69 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: of twenty twelve, a dozen or so rallies across the 70 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: country that all took place on the same day. Only 71 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: the one in Sacramento was attended by more than a 72 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 2: handful of people, and it was the only one that 73 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: made it into the newspaper because counter protesters from the 74 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: nearby Occupy encampment showed up to heckle the neo Nazis 75 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: and ended up getting into a bit of a scuffle 76 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: with the police. In that episode, I talked a bit 77 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: about what the event claimed to be doing, raising awareness 78 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: about white genocide and South Africa, which, if you don't 79 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: remember the episode, is not a real thing. It is 80 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: not happening at all, but it is a conspiracy theory 81 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: of some importance to white supremacists around the world, and 82 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: it was something of a fringe idea, but unfortunately now 83 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: the President of the United States has gotten a hold 84 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: of it and decided that white South Africans qualify for 85 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: refugee resettlement in the United States. In the second episode, 86 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: the one I really thought was going to be the 87 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: end of the story, I only managed to get through 88 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 2: a single incident. The first time Monica Huggot's name showed 89 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: up in the historical record alongside a bombing. In nineteen 90 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: eighty she was a member of a small African or 91 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: nationalist terrorist cell calling itself the VIT Commando or the 92 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: White Commandos. After a brief bombing campaign targeting anti apartheid 93 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: activists and academics, they were all arrested. Most of the 94 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: members of the Vit Commando turned out to be Italian fascists, 95 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 2: and Monica Huggot's charges were dropped after she testified against them. 96 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: In her testimony, she claimed to be a member of 97 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: the American Ku Klux Klan. She wasn't even in the 98 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: next chapter of her own story. I lost track of 99 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: her for most of the nineteen eighties, but one of 100 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: the men who would be connected to her later on, 101 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: had a very strange past of his own. In the 102 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: third episode of the series, we followed German neo Nazi 103 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: Horsed Cleans and his South African accomplices. They carried out 104 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: an attack on a UN office in Namibia in nineteen 105 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: eighty nine, killing a security guard and later murdering a 106 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,679 Speaker 2: police officer In their escape from custody, The men involved 107 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: in the attack fled back to South Africa, joining a 108 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: new africaner Neo Nazi organization called the Order Borafolk. After 109 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: another series of bombings and arrests, they all somehow ended 110 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: up no longer in jail. That group, the Order Borafolk, 111 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: also pulled off a high profile heist of a massive 112 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: cache of weapons from a South African Air Force base. 113 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: Remember I asked you to keep those guns in the 114 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: back of your mind. One of them shows up again 115 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: in this story. And by this point we're up to 116 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: the early nineteen nineties and it's clear to everyone who 117 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: is paying attention that the apartheid regime is unsustainable. Multi 118 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: party negotiations had begun. The African National Congress and the 119 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: ruling National Party were slowly working their way through the 120 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: process of coming to an agreement about how the nation 121 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: would move forward. And as you might expect, most of 122 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: the characters in this story weren't ready to give up 123 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: the fight. And that's where our international network of mercenaries 124 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: comes in, the subject of last week's episode. In the 125 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: summer of nineteen ninety three, at an international fascist rally 126 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: in Belgium, leaders of European Neo Nazi groups met to 127 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: discuss an mercenaries to South Africa to cause chaos. A 128 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: date had been set for the election. They only had 129 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: a few months left to either overthrow the government and 130 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 2: cancel that election, or convince enough white South Africans to 131 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: secede and form their own white ethno state. And in 132 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: that episode last week I got a little lost sifting 133 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: through old documents from the Bosnian War, trying to nail 134 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: down exactly how our German mercenaries got from one conflict 135 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: to another, so that brings us all back up to 136 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: speed more or less. I spent most of last week's 137 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: episodes sifting through the distant past, looking at the history 138 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: of the clan in South Africa, then looking at distant 139 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: places tracing the paths of those mercenaries but there is 140 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: some context at the heart of this story that we 141 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: need to sketch out before we move on, because, like 142 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 2: I said, the end of a part time it wasn't 143 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: a single moment. There were years of political negotiations before 144 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: that election. In April of nineteen ninety four, the election 145 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: of Nelson Mandela marked the official end, but it had 146 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: been all but over for months, and the end had 147 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: been in sight for nearly a year. Here's AWB's leader, 148 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: Eugene tare Blanche, offering his thoughts on the negotiation process 149 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: to a reporter in May of nineteen ninety three. 150 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 4: If I believe that they can can negotiate for our 151 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 4: fatherland and get it back and travel, let them try. 152 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 4: I'm preparing myself for the war. 153 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: An increasingly desperate and fractured extreme right wing was doubling 154 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: down on violence, but the political process was proceeding without them, 155 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: and everything they did to try to stop that process 156 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: only seemed to accelerate it. On April tenth, nineteen ninety three, 157 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: the Saturday before Easter, Chris Hani was assassinated. Hani was 158 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: the General secretary of the South African Communist Party and 159 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: the chief of staff of the a N c's armed 160 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: wing Mukanto with Siezway. He was a beloved and immensely 161 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: popular leader within the African National Congress, particularly among young 162 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: anti apartheid activists. He'd given his bodyguard the day off, 163 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: and he was supposed to be at home. His killer 164 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: hadn't actually intended to carry out the plan that day. 165 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: In particular, he would later claim he'd only been in 166 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: the area conducting one last reconmission, but when he spotted 167 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 2: Hani returning home from buying a newspaper, accompanied only by 168 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: his fifteen year old daughter, he knew he'd never get 169 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: a better shot. As Hanni stepped out of his car, 170 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: the killer shouted his name, and as Honey turned around 171 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: to see where the voice had come from, his killer fired, 172 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: hitting him four times in the chest and head. The 173 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: assassin was arrested almost immediately. One of Hani's neighbors, a 174 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: white woman, called the police and was able to give 175 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: them the killer's license plate. When police found him that afternoon, 176 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: the murder weapon was still sitting on the back seat 177 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: of his car. By Monday, Eugene taire Blanche had publicly 178 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: confirmed that the killer, a Polish immigrant named Yanush Walous, 179 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: had been a member of the Africaner Resistance movement. Once 180 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: in custody, Wallous confessed to a police officer he had 181 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: incorrectly assumed was a fellow traveler. There were plenty of 182 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: police officers who would have been on his side he 183 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 2: murdered a black communist, after all, but this turned out 184 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: not to be one of them. He told the officer 185 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: that the gun had been given to him by Clive 186 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: Derby Lewis, a sitting member of Parliament in the Conservative Party. 187 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: It had also been one of the guns the Ordoborofolk 188 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 2: had stolen from an Air Force base three years earlier. 189 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: When Walous's apartment was searched, officers found a printed list 190 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: of names. Given that Chris Hani's name was on that 191 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: list and he'd just been shot to death, it appears 192 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 2: to have been a hit list, but Walous almost certainly 193 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: didn't write that list himself. It was mostly high profile 194 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: political figures like Nelson Mandela, Chris Hani, and Communist Party 195 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: chair Jo Slovo, but there were also the names of 196 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: several journalists, most of whom published only in Afrikaans, which 197 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: Walous could not read. The same list of names was 198 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: later found in the personal papers of Clive Derby Lewis's wife, 199 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: gay but white supremacist journalist Arthur Kemp would later testify 200 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 2: that he'd been the original author of the list. As 201 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: far as the official record goes, Camp was not involved, 202 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: he was not charged, and he claimed he'd had no 203 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 2: idea the list would be used in any murders. Within 204 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: hours of Haney's murder, Nelson Mandela gave a televised address 205 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: urging con. 206 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 5: Chris Honey championder the cause of peace, trudging to every 207 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 5: corner of South Africa, calling for a spirit of tolerance 208 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 5: among all our people. We are a nation in mourning. 209 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 5: Our pain and anger is real. Yet we must not 210 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 5: permit ourselves to be provoked by those who seek to 211 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 5: deny us. They're very afraidom Chris Haney gave his life. 212 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: Hani's murder didn't have the desire effect. It didn't provoke 213 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: violent reprisals from anti apartheid groups. It didn't disrupt the 214 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: ongoing negotiations. It didn't make the African National Congress less 215 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: willing to compromise during those negotiations. If anything, it had 216 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: the opposite effect. Mendela's public addresses in the days that 217 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: followed were calm, reasonable, and committed to peace, and the 218 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: ruling National Party had nothing to celebrate in Hani's death either. 219 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: It only served to demonstrate the extreme right wing's willingness 220 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: to disrupt the process by any means necessary. They understood 221 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: that they were just as likely to find themselves in 222 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: a Nazi's crosshairs as the men on the other side 223 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: of the negotiating table. It wasn't long after Hani's murder 224 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: that it was announced that they'd set a date the 225 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: elections would go forward, taking place in April of nineteen 226 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: ninety four. In June of nineteen ninety three, around the 227 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: time the election date was announced, negotiations about what that 228 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: government would look like were still ongoing, and they were 229 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: held at the Kempton Park World Trade Center. On June 230 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: twenty fifth, nineteen ninety three, thousands of armed Africaner nationalists 231 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: showed up outside the World Trade Center. The newly formed 232 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: Africaner Folksfront, an umbrella organization of right wing groups, staged 233 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: a protest outside earlier in the morning, harassing delegates as 234 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: they arrived. As the day wore on, the crowd began 235 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: to grow restless, particularly among the ranks of the AWB. 236 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: On orders from Eugene Tareblanche, an AWB member, drove an 237 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: armored car through the front of the building, and the 238 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 2: crowd easily overcame the police and swarmed inside. 239 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 6: All of a sudden, I saw the security people running out, 240 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 6: and I said, what's up, and they said, they've broken through, 241 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 6: and they coming, And then my own security men simply 242 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 6: grabbed hold of me and ran. 243 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 7: Pandemonium just broke out in the entire building. Many people 244 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 7: on the AMC side from the government side all huddled 245 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 7: into the government offices. 246 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: Officials on both sides of the negotiating table fled, fearing 247 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: they'd be shot and killed by the armed men. For 248 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: two hours, the AWB occupied the World Trade Center, smashing 249 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: windows and furniture. They took over the conference room where 250 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: the negotiations had been going on, and spray painted separate 251 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: as slogans on the walls. Now, the only photos I 252 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 2: have that I know are of Monica Huggett. We're taken 253 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, and she was nearly seventy years old then, 254 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 2: so it was impossible for me to try to find 255 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: her in old photos. But I do know she was there. 256 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 2: She said so herself in this wistful reminiscence about that 257 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: day in an interview she did in twenty nineteen. 258 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 8: They did the negotiations at the World Trade Center at 259 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 8: the airport in Joannasloo. It's not far from where I live, 260 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 8: and we went there one day when the awb Ad 261 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 8: made a sort of a ponzard of argon and went 262 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 8: through the glass. They clearly smashed the glass. Oh my goodness, 263 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 8: it just came down like diamonds. And then we would 264 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 8: about maybe two thousand and three thousand people they're protesting. 265 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: There's quite a bit of actual video of this event, 266 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: and it looks really familiar. It looks unsettlingly like footage 267 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: of the protesters storming the Congressional chambers at the US 268 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 2: Capitol on January sixth. And I don't just mean visually, 269 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: although the visual similarities are striking, but there's that same 270 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: sort of unnerving mix of bloodlust and lighthearted adventurism. In 271 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: both cases. There were reports of protesters pissing and shitting 272 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 2: on office furniture on the floors, and some of the 273 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 2: protesters just look like they're along for the ride, they're 274 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: just enjoying the chaos. They're just smash things and wandering around, 275 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: but there are also clear leaders and more militant elements 276 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: that are obviously focused on a mission. History really does rhyme, 277 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: I guess. But just like the assassination of Chris Hani, 278 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 2: this attempt to derail the negotiations backfired badly. Here's a 279 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: and C negotiator and present day South African President Cyril 280 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 2: Ramaposa in an interview in nineteen ninety five. 281 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 7: I was able to discuss the events with some of 282 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 7: the National Party ministers and they, in the end, I think, 283 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 7: drove them more and more away from having any form 284 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 7: of understanding or even sympathy with the right wingers. 285 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: This kind of stunt only made the far right look 286 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: more unreasonable, more unstable, and less viable as any kind 287 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: of political partner. The adults were at the negotiating table 288 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 2: and these hooligans were driving trucks through windows and pissing 289 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: on the floor. Any remaining hope of effectively disrupting the 290 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 2: political process was fading quickly, and while opinions on the 291 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: extreme right varied widely as to what the most effective 292 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: course of action might be, most extremists had their sights 293 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: set on a folk shot a white South African state, 294 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 2: if they couldn't stop what was coming for the nation 295 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: of South Africa, they'd have to find a way to 296 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: secure a nation of their own, and to do that well, 297 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: they'd need an army. Something very strange happened in March 298 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety four, a white Africaner nationalist militia took 299 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: up arms to keep a black man in power. Let's 300 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: back up for a second. This is a bit of 301 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: history I was admittedly unfamiliar with, so maybe you'd also 302 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: benefit from a brief explanation of apartheid South Africa's semi 303 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 2: sovereign bantustans. Under apartheid, South Africa established what they called 304 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 2: native reserves. These were territories set aside for the forcible 305 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: resettlement of black South Africans. They were allegedly meant to 306 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: be homelands for particular ethnic groups, So the Bantustan of 307 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: Quasulu was meant for the Zulu people, frans Ke and 308 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 2: Siske were for the Kosa people, both with Atswana for 309 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 2: the Swana people, and so on. In practice, though, it 310 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 2: was pretty arbitrary, and more importantly, they functioned to strip 311 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: black South Africans of their citizenship. Laws passed in the 312 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies designated all black South Africans as citizens only 313 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 2: of their home land, that is, the Bantustan they'd been 314 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 2: assigned to, and not a citizen of the country of 315 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: South Africa. Of the ten Bantustans, four were recognized as 316 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: independent states by the Government of South Africa. No one 317 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: else in the world recognized these as sovereign nations. But 318 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, Lucas Mangope was the president of 319 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: Bothu Tatswana and he wanted to remain the president after 320 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: the upcoming elections, though all of the Bantustans would be 321 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: reincorporated into South Africa and all South Africans, black and white, 322 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: would be full citizens of the nation. 323 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: Of South Africa. 324 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 2: Black South Africans were preparing to cast their ballots in 325 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: a national election for the first time, and that would 326 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: mean an end to the Mangope presidency because his country 327 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: wouldn't exist anymore. In early March of nineteen ninety four, 328 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: Mangope announced that both Withatswana or BOP for short, that's 329 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: not just me shortening it, that is apparently what people 330 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 2: call it. But he announced that BOB would not be 331 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: participating in the election at all. But with the potential 332 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: disestablishment of their country on the horizon, civil servants wanted 333 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: assurances that their pensions would be paid, and the president 334 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: ignored them. Strikes and civil unrest quickly devolved into a 335 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: bit of a situation when the police joined the protest. 336 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: This is an incredibly strange bit of history, and I'm 337 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 2: speeding through it here because we've got other places to 338 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 2: go today. But if you're interested in a bit more 339 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: about the Boufu Tatswana crisis, the podcast Lions Led by 340 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: Donkeys did an episode about it in December of twenty 341 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: twenty one, and it's a fun listen. Mengobe was no 342 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: stranger to unrest. This wasn't even his first coup. He'd 343 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: put down an attempted coup in nineteen ninety and he 344 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: was briefly deposed by his own military in nineteen eighty eight, 345 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 2: but the South African government intervened, sending in troops to 346 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 2: restore him to power. This time, though it wasn't the 347 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: South African government he turned to for help was a 348 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: man named Constant Villiun. Villiune had retired as a general 349 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 2: nearly a decade earlier, and in nineteen ninety three, he 350 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: and three other retired generals formed the Africaner Folksfront, an 351 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: attempt to unite the disparate elements of the white extreme 352 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 2: right wing. As a former general, Villiune was confident that 353 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: if he ever went to war, a good chunk of 354 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: the military would follow him. 355 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 3: I also had forces available, I would say from what 356 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 3: would split off from the Defense Force, Because had I 357 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 3: really taken a military action, there was a real danger 358 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 3: of polarization within the Defense Force. It would certainly have 359 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: been a substantial number of people that would have split 360 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 3: it from the Defense Force and would have joined me 361 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: in fighting for the liberation of the Africana people. 362 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: By nineteen ninety four, Villyun claimed to have over fifty 363 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: thousand men under his command, trained paramilitaries, military reservists, and 364 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: sympathetic members of the military who would follow his orders. 365 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: It all sounds a bit odd, why would African or 366 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 2: nationalists lift a finger to help any black person? But 367 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: it's a little more complicated than black and white. If 368 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: Bob could successfully refuse to participate in the election, maybe 369 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: other Bantustans would follow suit, making the election less legitimate 370 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: and weakening the state. And if this African or militia 371 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: could keep Mangope in power, they would have access to 372 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 2: land and weapons in a sovereign nation within South Africa's borders. 373 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 2: It could be a stronghold from which to launch more attacks. 374 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 2: And perhaps they hoped to eventually negotiate with Mangope for 375 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: a bit of land of their own within his territory 376 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: so they could start their own white ethno state. But 377 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 2: perhaps most importantly, Millyun was taking a calculated risk. If 378 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: his Folks Front militia came to Mangope's aid, the South 379 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: African government might send in the military to restore order. 380 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: And there was a widespread belief on the right and 381 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: a profound fear within the government that the military would 382 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 2: refuse those orders that they would not fire on a 383 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: white militia. If the military were to refuse those orders, 384 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: it would embold in white right wingers around the country 385 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: to take up arms. After all, who was going to 386 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 2: stop them. And if the military refused orders to fire 387 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: on his militia, Villyun could potentially take control of a 388 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: significant portion of the military and maybe they could topple 389 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: the entire government. Here's South African Communist Party chair and 390 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 2: ANC negotiator Joe Slovo, describing that fear. 391 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 9: Some of my colleagues and I feared very much that 392 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 9: the echelons of the army might see this as the 393 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 9: opportunity to try to prevent the transformation. We weren't certain 394 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 9: of the degree of loyalty that we could attract from 395 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 9: the upper echulance of the army, So. 396 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: In March of nineteen ninety four, the government took a 397 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: sort of wait and see approach to the whole affair 398 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: and bop They couldn't risk a massed affection within the military, 399 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 2: and maybe things would have been different if Eugene terre 400 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 2: Blanche was more of a team player. We'll never know. 401 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: When the dust finally settled, everyone else involved agreed that 402 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: no one had invited Eugene terre Blanche to the autogal Pey, 403 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: but the AWB refused to be left out, and they 404 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: showed up anyway. Terre Blanche had put out a call 405 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: to AWB members in an address on Radio Pretoria, that 406 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 2: pirate radio station where our German mercenaries had been assigned 407 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: guard duty on March eleventh, nineteen ninety f for Eugene 408 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: Terreblanche and a few hundred men under his command. Arrived 409 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: in Bob Jack Turner, leader of the soldiers loyal to Mangope, 410 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: did not want AWB there. Their reputation for uncontrollable racist 411 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: violence preceded them, and Turner was worried that the black 412 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: soldiers under his command would panic at the sight of 413 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: Terre Blanche's neo Nazis. What they actually did, though, was mutiny. 414 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 10: When my own troops heard that some of the weapons 415 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 10: were being earmarked for the Fox Front, they didn't like. 416 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 5: It very much. 417 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 10: In extual fact, they refused to load any weapons onto 418 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 10: vehicles and that any of the weapons were to be 419 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 10: given to the Folks Flow. 420 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 2: When the BOP soldiers saw AWB men were part of 421 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: the Folks Front contingent, they refused. They refused to participate. 422 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: They wouldn't arm any of the white paramilitary men AWB 423 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: or otherwise, and maybe they would have happily collaborated with 424 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 2: just the Folks Front, But when AWB arrived, they no 425 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: longer made any distinction between the two. Anyone willing to 426 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: stand with AWB was just as bad as they were, 427 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: and the soldiers wouldn't have any part in it. When 428 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: the soldiers threatened to attack the AWB men, if they 429 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: didn't leave. Hair Blanche's convoy begrudgingly packed up and started 430 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: to leave. On the way out of town, though, they 431 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: started shooting black civilians at random. As the convoy rolled 432 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: through a town, picking off passers by from their car windows, 433 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: an angry mob formed blocking their path. The web vehicles 434 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 2: fired into the crowd and that sent everyone running, and 435 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: this was the last straw for the BOP police. These 436 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: neo Nazis had felt quite brave when they were shooting 437 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: at unarmed civilians, but it was a very different story 438 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: when someone in an armored vehicle started shooting back. Several 439 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: people in the convoy were hit, but they all managed 440 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: to escape except the last car at the very end 441 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: of the line. The driver of a blue Mercedes was 442 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: shot and killed, leaving his passengers two other AWB members stranded. 443 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: The video of this moment is surreal. I mean, it's 444 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: bizarre that there's even video of this moment to watch, 445 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: and it shows three men in their khaki uniforms and 446 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: they've sort of spilled out of this blue Mercedes and 447 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: they're lying on the ground and one of them appears 448 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: to be already dead and the other two are wounded 449 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: lying on the ground, surrounded by photojournalists snapping pictures. 450 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 3: Just get us some outpline please, he's just wounded. 451 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 4: Let's look. 452 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 8: Are you finished? 453 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 3: Get the mills. 454 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 2: We need an ambulance for this guy that's wounded. They're 455 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 2: just lying there in the dirt, bleeding, and reporters are 456 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: asking them questions. One reporter asks them if they're members 457 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: of AWB, and one of the bleeding men says yes, 458 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: And then, with the journalists cameras still rolling about, police 459 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 2: officer calmly walked over and shot all three men at 460 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 2: point blank range. That officer Vlamitza Beernstein Mignazzo would eventually 461 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 2: be granted amnesty by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. When 462 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: he appeared before the Commission in nineteen ninety eight, Eugene 463 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 2: Terreblanche himself cross examined him about the incident. After some 464 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 2: extensive back and forth, with terre Blanche really taking advantage 465 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 2: of this opportunity to spin his version of events, Minatto 466 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: again explained that he shot those men because he had 467 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: witnessed them shooting civilians, saying, quote, it was quite clear 468 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 2: that the killings were going to continue, and I decided 469 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 2: that rather than to leave those people to destroy the 470 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 2: black people who won't do me any good. But the 471 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: only alternative is to do away with them, and that 472 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: is exactly what I did. Within hours of the shooting 473 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: at the convoy, the BOP soldiers had run the entire 474 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: Folks Front out, and once all the white paramilitary forces 475 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 2: had withdrawn, the South African Defense Forces moved in and 476 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 2: the mutining soldiers quickly surrendered and Mengoe was removed from power. 477 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: The government of Bofu Tatswana was dissolved by the end 478 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: of the day. The whole disastrous affair was the end 479 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: of Constant Villiun's dreams of a Boer Folkstadt. As the 480 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: leader of the Afrikaaner Folks Front, he had been loudly 481 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 2: calling for a boycott of the elections. The day after 482 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 2: his troops were run out of bob he announced that 483 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: not only was he no longer opposing the election, he 484 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,919 Speaker 2: had in fact decided to run in the election under 485 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: the banner of his newly formed Freedom Front Party, a 486 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 2: conservative party representing white interests. So this is the context 487 00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 2: the subject of our story. 488 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: Herself. 489 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 2: In Monica, Huggett was hosting these German mercenaries in her 490 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 2: home as a part of this larger effort to disrupt 491 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 2: the upcoming election, and with the failure in Bob, the 492 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 2: Folksfront not only lost its leader when vill June abandoned 493 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: the plan, but they'd suffered a pretty serious blow to morale. 494 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 2: Seeing your brothers in arms shot like stray dogs in 495 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: the street on the evening news might lead you to 496 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: ask yourself some hard questions about your commitment to the cause. 497 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 2: Those three AWB members were shot on March eleventh. On 498 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 2: March twelfth, Constant Villejune announced that he was on board 499 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 2: with the elections and was in fact running for office, 500 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 2: and on Monday, March fourteenth, nineteen ninety four, three German 501 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: mercenaries opened fire on South African police officers in Tierport, 502 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: outside of Pretoria. Exactly what happened is impossible to say. 503 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 2: Even reporting from the time just isn't consistent. Some reports 504 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 2: say police simply happened to notice several men in combat 505 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 2: fatigues in a car and tried to pull them over. 506 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 2: Other reports say the men intentionally led officers into a trap, 507 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 2: but either way, at some point those Germans started firing 508 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: their AK forty sevens at the two police officers, wounding 509 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 2: but not killing them. When the shooting stopped, police found 510 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 2: the body of Thomas Konst in the brush near by. 511 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 2: He had a pair of night vision goggles on and 512 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 2: several hundred rounds of ammunitions trapped to his body. Stephen 513 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: Rays was apprehended alive. The third man, Horse Cleans, managed 514 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 2: to flee the scene, but he was arrested several days later, 515 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 2: along with a fourth mercenary, Alexander Nydline. That much we 516 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 2: know for sure. Thomas Coons died, Stephen Rays was arrested 517 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 2: that night, and Clen's and Nydeline were picked up that weekend. 518 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 2: Everything else is a little bit fuzzy. In the last episode, 519 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 2: I mentioned that Monica Huggett was in charge of picking 520 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 2: the mercenaries up from the airport. She was the first 521 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: point of contact for each batch of foreign fighters. When Raised, Nydeline, 522 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 2: and Coons arrived in South Africa in January of nineteen 523 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 2: ninety four, she set them up with their first assignment, 524 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 2: serving as armed guards for the right wing pirate radio 525 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: station Radio Pretorio. Now this is absolutely just me spitballing. 526 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 2: I'm just guessing here, but I have to wonder if 527 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 2: this confrontation had something to do with the radio station. Remember, 528 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 2: this shootout is happening just days after the internationally televised 529 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 2: violence in Bob and when Eugene Tarblance was trying to 530 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: recruit ADVB members to go there in the first place, 531 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 2: he made the announcement on Radio Pretoria. The radio station 532 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 2: isn't mentioned in any of the reporting about the shootout, 533 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 2: but I wonder if this alleged trap they led police 534 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 2: into was connected to their job protecting the station, or 535 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: if police were patrolling the area near the station specifically 536 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 2: because of the recent events in Bop. Maybe they expected 537 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 2: Tare Blanche to show back up and announce a new 538 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 2: hair brain scheme. An article published in Aberlin newspaper that month, though, 539 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 2: says that they'd grown bored of standing around guarding the 540 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 2: station and had struck off on their own. Maybe they 541 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: saw footage of civilians being shot by the AWB convoy 542 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: and instead of feeling disgusted, they felt left out and 543 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 2: they wanted to find their own adventure. I guess we 544 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 2: can't really know. I have a lot of unanswered questions 545 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 2: about this incident, but one of them stands out above 546 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 2: the rest. When doctors removed the bullets that had struck 547 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 2: those police officers. One of them didn't match. It hadn't 548 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 2: come from any of our German mercenaries. That bullet had 549 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 2: been fired by Eugene Decoc. Decoc was a death squad leader. 550 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 2: He had been a colonel in the South African Police Force, 551 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 2: but he was relieved of duty in nineteen ninety three 552 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 2: as part of the National Party's last ditch efforts at 553 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 2: damage control after public revelations about state sponsored terror. As 554 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 2: the commander of the Counterinsurgency Unit C ten, Decoc oversaw 555 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 2: the kidnapping, torture, and murder of countless anti apartheid activists. 556 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 2: Later testimony before the Truth and Reconciliation committ would connect 557 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 2: Decoq's C ten unit to the violent attacks in Namibia 558 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine, the ones intended to undermine Namibian independence. 559 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 2: After his bullet was discovered inside that policeman in nineteen 560 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 2: ninety four, a police spokesman said quote. He told investigators 561 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 2: he was on a neighboring property when he heard shooting. 562 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,280 Speaker 2: Fearing for his life, he fired in the general direction 563 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 2: of the muzzle fire. I know it's a mess of 564 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 2: a story, But that bit about Namibia might be jumping 565 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 2: out at you. Those violent attacks in nineteen eighty nine 566 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 2: intended to undermine Namibian independence. Two weeks ago we discussed 567 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 2: one of those attacks in great detail, the murder of 568 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 2: a UN security guard in aut Yo. That operation was 569 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 2: later revealed to have been funded by the South African government. 570 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 2: But one of the men who actually threw a grenade 571 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 2: at the UN office was German mercenary horse to cleanse. 572 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: So what are the odds that two men who'd participated 573 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 2: in the same state backed terrorism in nineteen eighty nine 574 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 2: would just completely accidentally cross paths again five years later 575 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 2: while one of them was in the middle of a 576 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 2: shootout with the police. It's possible that the answers are 577 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 2: buried somewhere in the case file for Decoc's later conviction 578 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 2: for crimes against humanity, but a quick search didn't seem 579 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 2: promising a coincidence for the ages. 580 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 11: Maybe, but back to our Germans. 581 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 2: A later report in Searchlight magazine says that after they 582 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 2: were arrested, one of the Germans talked, telling police that 583 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 2: it had been Monica Huggett who'd introduced them to Klent's 584 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 2: and based on the timeline of events and the fact 585 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 2: that one of them was already dead, it had to 586 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 2: have been Stephen Ray's who ratted Monica out. Nideline and 587 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 2: Cleans weren't taken into custody until Sunday, and Monica had 588 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 2: already been arrested by then. When the next round of 589 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 2: mercenaries arrived from Europe just a few days after the shootout, 590 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 2: there was no one waiting for them at the airport. 591 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 2: Ronald Doyster, Ralph Morajaz, and falk Semeng waited at the 592 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 2: airport for nearly an hour before they tried calling the 593 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 2: number they'd been given by their European contacts at Monica 594 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 2: Huggitt's house. A woman answered and told them she had 595 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 2: no idea where Monica was, but she gave them the 596 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 2: address so they could take a taxi and wait for 597 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 2: her there. They were sitting in Monica's living room when 598 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 2: they found out she'd been arrested on a weapons charge, 599 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 2: so she was certainly in police custody on March seventeenth, 600 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, but she pretty quickly made bail. An 601 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 2: Associated Press report published a week after the incident, quotes 602 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 2: from a German television News broadcast. I searched desperately for 603 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 2: actual video of this segment, but to no avail. I 604 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 2: did find a copy of the TV guide for ard 605 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 2: that German TV network for this date, March twenty second, 606 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, but unfortunately, it does us absolutely no 607 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 2: good to know that this segment probably aired after a 608 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 2: German dubbed rerun of the American police drama Lady Blue. 609 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 2: But the AP write up says an anonymous South African 610 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 2: woman with knowledge of the German Mercenary cell appeared on 611 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 2: the broadcast, and the woman said that Horst Cleans had 612 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 2: stayed in her home for some time and that the 613 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 2: group he was operating with had come to South Africa 614 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 2: to assassinate Nelson Mandela. Reporting from the same time period 615 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 2: in the Johannesburg City Press says that upon arrival in 616 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 2: the country, the German mercenary stay in a private home 617 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 2: in Kempton Park, where they were given money and documents 618 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 2: before being dispatched to their assignments. Given that we know 619 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 2: for certain that Monica's Kempton Park home was Deyster's destination, 620 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 2: it seems likely that she is this unnamed woman from 621 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 2: Kempton Park with the election just weeks away, the plan 622 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 2: was unraveling. Our Dutch mercenary Ronald Deuster, was unable to 623 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 2: make contact with Monica Huggett. He was redirected to a 624 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 2: farm owned by another AWB member. With his vast experience 625 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 2: as a soldier for hire, he was put to work 626 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 2: teaching the group how to make car bombs. In a 627 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 2: later confession, Doyster explained that he was quite good at 628 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 2: making car bombs, having successfully detonated several in Bosnia, but 629 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 2: he found the whole operation here just embarrassingly amateurish. He 630 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 2: said the people on the farm were ridiculous and pathetic 631 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 2: and that quote. The whole camp was in chaos. They 632 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 2: couldn't even source the materials he'd asked for to make 633 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,760 Speaker 2: nail bombs, and the guy he was trying to explain 634 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 2: car bombs to didn't know anything about explosives. He was, 635 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 2: of course personally and ideologically interested in participating in a 636 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 2: white revolution, but he was a career mercenary and his 637 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 2: top priority is always his own survival, and this obviously 638 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 2: wasn't going to work. So he went to the police. 639 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 2: He was willing to exchange information about this operation in 640 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 2: exchange for his own freedom, and when his information proved 641 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 2: to be valuable, he was hired by South African intelligence 642 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 2: to assist them in taking down the network. Searchlight magazine's 643 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,280 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six series of articles about this whole operation 644 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,520 Speaker 2: mentions only in passing that Monica Huggitt went right back 645 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 2: to her old ways after being released, placing more ads 646 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,439 Speaker 2: for soldiers in Eastern European newspapers. But there's no date 647 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,320 Speaker 2: attached to that in the article, because at some point 648 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 2: she left. Sometime in nineteen ninety four, Monica Huggitt left 649 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 2: South Africa. Nelson Mandela was elected president in April, apartheid 650 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,320 Speaker 2: was over. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission wouldn't be formed 651 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 2: for another year and a half, so there was no 652 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 2: promise of amnesty on the table in nineteen ninety four. 653 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 2: I don't know if she left to avoid prosecution, or 654 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 2: if she left because she couldn't bear the torment of 655 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 2: living in an integrated society, or for some other reason, 656 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 2: but she did leave. 657 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,320 Speaker 12: When I tried to go over to the United States 658 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,800 Speaker 12: the first time, I had to go for three interviews, 659 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 12: and I even knew my mother was a farmer and 660 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 12: asked me, when I go to the States for three months, 661 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 12: was going to take care of the cows? They asked 662 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:38,359 Speaker 12: me that the consul not. Yeah, so eventually I'm not 663 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 12: going into detail, but anyway, I got the visa and 664 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 12: I went to the United States in nineteen ninety four. 665 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,439 Speaker 12: I came back in ninety six, and then I got 666 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 12: married in two thousand to an American citizen, Jimstone. 667 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 2: I wish she would go into detail, how exactly did 668 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 2: she manage to spend two years in the United States 669 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 2: on a three month visa and why was she granted 670 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,919 Speaker 2: a visa at all? Over the course of those three interviews, 671 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 2: did they just talk about her mother's cows or did 672 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 2: they ask about the terrorism because they obviously knew some 673 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,839 Speaker 2: information about her If they knew about the cows, did 674 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 2: they ask her if she planned to visit the American 675 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 2: clansmen who'd sent her the bomb making manual the VIT 676 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 2: Commando had relied on when they made those bombs that 677 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 2: they set off in Professor's offices in nineteen eighty Did 678 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,160 Speaker 2: they ask her about the weapons charge she was still 679 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,359 Speaker 2: out on bond for, or the dead mercenary who'd been 680 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,480 Speaker 2: staying in her guest room. 681 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: I really would love to. 682 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 2: Know how those interviews went, because somehow she gained legal 683 00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 2: entry into the United States. She spent two years here 684 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 2: on that three month visa before returning to South Africa 685 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. In this hour of two thousand, she 686 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 2: married a retired sports broadcaster from Louisiana at a ceremony 687 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 2: in her hometown of Kempton Park, and the couple returned 688 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 2: to Mandeville, Louisiana together. 689 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 11: I know I. 690 00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 2: Promised this story was over, and it seems absolutely criminal 691 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 2: of me to stretch this out over so many episodes, 692 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 2: But in my defense, I did warn you that there 693 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 2: might not be an episode this week at all. I 694 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 2: lost most of my workdays this week covering a trial 695 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 2: here in Charlottesville. I'll tell you about that soon too, 696 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,400 Speaker 2: But I don't want to rush the ending of this story. 697 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't even have time to tell you 698 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 2: about Monica's belief in the prophecies of a long dead 699 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 2: boor mystic. And in the weeks I've spent putting this together, 700 00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 2: history has marched on. It was the President's bizarre our 701 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 2: executive order condemning South African land perform that sent me 702 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 2: down this path in the first place, and he's only 703 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 2: doubled down on his commitment to the white genocide conspiracy 704 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:15,200 Speaker 2: theory since then. No, I think there is a whole 705 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:20,399 Speaker 2: episode's worth of story left to tell. But if I've 706 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 2: somehow misjudged how much of the story is actually left, 707 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,400 Speaker 2: I can always feel some time by reading you the 708 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 2: absolutely dreadful poems written by one of those mercenaries. Treed 709 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,399 Speaker 2: Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. 710 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 2: It's researched, written and recorded by me Dolly Conker. Our 711 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 2: executive producers are Sophie Lichtermann and Robert Evans. The show 712 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,399 Speaker 2: is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The theme 713 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,719 Speaker 2: music was posed by Brad Diggert. You can email me 714 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 2: at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com. I 715 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 2: would have definitely read. 716 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: It, but I probably won't answer it. It's been me personal. 717 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,960 Speaker 2: You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other 718 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 2: listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit. Just don't post 719 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,280 Speaker 2: anything that's gonna make you one of my Weird Little 720 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 2: Guys