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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Listen to the audience. They always tell you the truth.

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Speaker 2: You can tell by the applause, So you can tell

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Speaker 2: by the lack of applause. Everything we do is for

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Speaker 2: the audience, It isn't for us.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 4: I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic,

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Speaker 4: Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. On most episodes, we're

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Speaker 4: examining the impact and transformation of products and services into

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Speaker 4: a new digital world. Today, we're going in the other

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Speaker 4: direction and talking to one of the great and most

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Speaker 4: enduring visionaries of live family entertainment. That's right irl in

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Speaker 4: real life, it's Kenneth Feld, chairman and CEO of Feld Entertainment,

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Speaker 4: best known for Ringling Brothers, Sigrid and Roy, Master, Jam Motorsports,

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Speaker 4: Disney and Ice, Sesame Street, Live, Tony Award winning stage shows,

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Speaker 4: and a lot more. Kenneth Eld was born in Washington,

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Speaker 4: d C. In the late nineteen forties. He worked in

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Speaker 4: the family business even as a kid, at all levels,

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Speaker 4: from selling programs to managing the box office. He's got

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Speaker 4: a remarkable, one of a kind story with a lot

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Speaker 4: of important lessons and unique insights which we'll explore today. Kenneth, welcome,

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: Great to be with you.

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Speaker 4: Well, before we jump into the meaty stuff, we'd like

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Speaker 4: to start out with doing you in sixty seconds. You ready, sure?

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Speaker 4: Early riser or night out? Early riser east coast to

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Speaker 4: west coast, East coast, winter or summer toss up Marvel

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Speaker 4: are Classic Disney Aal Disney caller texts Paul all time

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Speaker 4: favorite musical artists, Gladys Knight favorite and greatness live performance

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Speaker 4: of all time.

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Speaker 3: I have to say, Sigfreedom.

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Speaker 4: Roy, smartest person you know, I say, my dad, let's

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Speaker 4: jump in. You've got an amazing against the grain story.

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Speaker 4: Everything seems to be going virtual and here you are

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Speaker 4: with some of the greatest franchises in the world filling

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Speaker 4: up theaters, arenas and stadiums. What is it about live

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Speaker 4: entertainment that virtual just can't replace?

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Speaker 2: The greatest thing about live entertainment is the first word

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Speaker 2: is live. It can evoke emotions like nothing else. If

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Speaker 2: you're watching something on the screen, it's two dimensional, no

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Speaker 2: matter how good the quality is, and people do not

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Speaker 2: respond in the same way. Years ago, we'd done Toy

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Speaker 2: Story on ice with Disney On Ice. I was sitting

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Speaker 2: with John Lasseter and watching the show and it was

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Speaker 2: the first time he had seen it, and I turn

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Speaker 2: around and he has tears in his eyes and I said, John,

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Speaker 2: is everything okay?

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Speaker 3: He said yeah.

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Speaker 2: He says, you know, I would go and watch matinees

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Speaker 2: of my movies to see what the audience reaction is.

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Speaker 2: He said, here, I've never seen a reaction like this

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Speaker 2: to any of my movies before. And he said, it's

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Speaker 2: because it's live. It's because the characters.

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Speaker 3: People think that they're real.

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Speaker 2: And to hear it from someone who makes movies all

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Speaker 2: the time, it was just astounding to hear that and

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Speaker 2: see his response, and I think that's really what it is.

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Speaker 2: When COVID hit and we were closed completely for you know,

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Speaker 2: a year and a half, and everybody said, well, now

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Speaker 2: everybody's watching everything, they're streaming everything. Nobody's ever going back

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Speaker 2: to live entertainment. And I said, live entertainment is going

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Speaker 2: to be stronger than ever because you can't get that feeling,

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Speaker 2: that response from a screen.

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Speaker 4: So COVID comes, everybody says, oh my gosh, the world's changed.

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Speaker 4: We're all going to be virtual. You go back in

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Speaker 4: the live business and what was that first live show

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Speaker 4: and how was that versus other shows.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting because we had about twenty some shows

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Speaker 2: touring around the world. COVID hit and we had equipment

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Speaker 2: Indonesia and Germany, people that we had to get back

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Speaker 2: to their homes and we were basically completely out of

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Speaker 2: business because you couldn't operate anywhere, and it was difficult

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Speaker 2: because we had to let people go and things. And

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Speaker 2: I sat there with the team and I said, look,

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Speaker 2: let's think of our company as a fifty year old startup.

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Speaker 2: What have we been doing all these years that maybe

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Speaker 2: hasn't worked as well as it should.

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Speaker 3: What are the things that we could do to make

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Speaker 3: things better?

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Speaker 2: In life, you really don't get a shot at a blank.

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Speaker 3: Piece of paper.

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Speaker 2: With COVID, we learned to operate in very different ways.

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Speaker 2: And I think the first thing was we had our

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Speaker 2: Supercross motorcycle racing season and we had seven races left

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Speaker 2: and there were no audiences because people couldn't go out.

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Speaker 2: So what we did is we went to talt Lake City,

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Speaker 2: the Rice Cycle Stadium at University of Utah, and we

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Speaker 2: had the seven final races there in over a two

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Speaker 2: week period. Typically we do one race a week and

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Speaker 2: all the riders came. We were testing them. We had

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Speaker 2: a full crew that was constantly testing all the people involved,

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Speaker 2: and we were in the stadium. We had the dirt

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Speaker 2: for the motorcycle riders in there, and it was televised.

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Speaker 2: So we completed our television commitments, but there were no spectators.

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Speaker 2: And we finished the season and we crowned a champion

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Speaker 2: and we said, wow, it worked.

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Speaker 3: So now what's the next thing.

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Speaker 2: We can do, and we went out with one tour

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Speaker 2: of Disney on ice and the challenge there was we

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Speaker 2: were able to have certain states that would allow us

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Speaker 2: to operate, and there were maybe eight or nine states

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Speaker 2: at the time.

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Speaker 3: But the seating was what we call pod seating.

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Speaker 2: If you had a family of four, you would have

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Speaker 2: four seats and then there will be four seats next.

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Speaker 3: To you open.

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Speaker 2: There would be the rolling back of you in the

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Speaker 2: row in front of you open. So we said, let's

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Speaker 2: try that out, and it worked and people came and

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Speaker 2: I think we played every single city in Texas and

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Speaker 2: we ultimately were the first live entertainment in the world

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Speaker 2: to start touring again, and we grew from that.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing what you did during COVID and the way

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Speaker 4: you came back from it, and you know, you go

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Speaker 4: against the grain and being live when everybody else is

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Speaker 4: trying to go virtual. The other thing you do which

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Speaker 4: is against the grain is you know, talking about the business,

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Speaker 4: is this is really still a family business. Other family

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Speaker 4: members have joined the business. You joined the business early

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Speaker 4: and really built the business up. How do you think

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Speaker 4: about the pros and cons of everyone in the family

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Speaker 4: working together and having it as such a family focused business.

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Speaker 2: It's a wonderful business to be a family business, just

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Speaker 2: because my theory is anybody that's born is a potential customer.

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Speaker 2: And when my daughters growing up, they grew up with

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Speaker 2: primarily with Ringling Brothers.

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Speaker 3: And Disney on ice and that was.

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Speaker 2: Just part of their life and I don't think they

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Speaker 2: thought it was strange. And then they all went to school,

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Speaker 2: they married, they have children, and they worked in different

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Speaker 2: parts of the business. My youngest daughter, Juliet, is the

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Speaker 2: chief opera off the company. Now my other daughters are

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Speaker 2: on the board and it is really interesting dynamics and

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Speaker 2: it makes every day come to work and I feel good.

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Speaker 2: And we do have a great team and one person

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Speaker 2: can lead, but you need a team to make things work.

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Speaker 2: What I like best about the whole business is the

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Speaker 2: people and I get to come in. I see them

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Speaker 2: every day I go out to the shows. It's energizing

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Speaker 2: and keeps me a lot younger.

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Speaker 4: Quick factoid here, how much time do you spend on

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Speaker 4: the road pre.

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Speaker 2: Covid was probably for fifty some years, traveling three to

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Speaker 2: four days every single week. I did that from the

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Speaker 2: time basically when I started working summers when I was

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Speaker 2: in college and after that and I were just constantly

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Speaker 2: traveling every place.

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Speaker 4: So usually we jump back in time to add a

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Speaker 4: perspective on our game. In your case, jumping back in

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Speaker 4: time is really the origin story. You were born in

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Speaker 4: nineteen forty eight Washington, d C. Just as your dad

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Speaker 4: and uncle were about to start new careers and live

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Speaker 4: entertainment in the early fifties, they took over management of

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Speaker 4: an amphitheater in Washington, d C. Your dad managed Paul

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Speaker 4: Anka as a young breakout star. He promoted major acts

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Speaker 4: including the Beatles and the Stones, and even promoted the

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Speaker 4: Greatest Showwner at Ringling Brothers, and in nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 4: actually bought it all. This before you finished business school.

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Speaker 4: Tell us about growing up like that. What did it

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Speaker 4: teach you about business and about life and family and

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Speaker 4: how did it shape who you became.

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Speaker 3: I'll go way back.

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Speaker 2: My mother passed away when I was nine years old,

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Speaker 2: and my dad was always working. He wanted to go

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Speaker 2: to college, he couldn't because he was supporting his family.

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Speaker 2: And my dad had a record store in downtown Washington, DC,

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Speaker 2: And if I want to spend time with him on

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Speaker 2: the weekends, I would go to the record store, which

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Speaker 2: was great because I got to listen to all these

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Speaker 2: different records. And he was a consultant early on for

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Speaker 2: RCAA Victor Records, and he would get all of these

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Speaker 2: white label forty five rpm records, which were the singles

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Speaker 2: that somebody was going to release maybe three or four

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Speaker 2: months later. And my dad would listen to the records

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Speaker 2: and recommend what he thought were great, and he would

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Speaker 2: bring these records home. Or when I went down to

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Speaker 2: the record stores on Saturdays and Sundays, say listen to

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Speaker 2: these records, what do you think? And he listened to

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Speaker 2: what I said. When I was nine and ten, And

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Speaker 2: also he would have eighty one night ers of tours

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Speaker 2: so that he would have a fall tour. It went

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Speaker 2: for eighty nights, that was eleven weekends. And in the

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Speaker 2: spring he'd have a spring tour. And these were in

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Speaker 2: days in DC and in the South there was still

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Speaker 2: segregation early on, and he'd have a show with James Brown,

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Speaker 2: he'd have a show with the Drifters, with all the

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Speaker 2: motown acts, with every act that you could ever think

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Speaker 2: of music acts, and he would tour them. And by

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Speaker 2: doing this he went all over the US and Canada.

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Speaker 2: He learned about all the arenas. And if you think

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Speaker 2: about in the early sixties, there were only six teams

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Speaker 2: in the NBA and six teams in the NHL, so

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Speaker 2: there were these arenas, but they lack content. So his

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Speaker 2: rock and roll shows would play in all these venues.

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Speaker 2: And nineteen fifty six Ringling brothers born in Bailey, filed

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Speaker 2: bankruptcy and they went out of business.

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Speaker 3: And my father calls John Ringling.

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Speaker 2: North, who was the owner of fifty one percent of

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Speaker 2: Ringling at the time, and he said, look, I have

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Speaker 2: an idea how you should bring back the circus.

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Speaker 3: And he said, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: And my father said, look, you've always played Madison Square Garden,

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Speaker 2: You've always played the Boston garden. Why don't you just

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Speaker 2: play arenas instead of the tent, and I'll promote it

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Speaker 2: because I know all the arenas.

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Speaker 3: I'll book the.

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Speaker 2: Arenas and you deliver them the show, and I'll promote

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Speaker 2: it to all the advertising marketing and we'll figure out

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Speaker 2: how split on the dollars. And that's what happened. It

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Speaker 2: just grew, and he was innovative at the time. Everybody

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Speaker 2: had newspapers delivered, and every Sunday you get a newspaper

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Speaker 2: and it would have comics in it, and parents would

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Speaker 2: read this to the kids. And so he did so

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Speaker 2: much of his marketing for Ringling Brothers in the Sunday

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Speaker 2: comics because that's what parents read to their kids, and

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Speaker 2: that was a great way of marketing, and nobody ever

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Speaker 2: bought ads in the comics section.

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Speaker 3: It was also the least expensive way.

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Speaker 2: To advertise, and so that really kicked off his promotional

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Speaker 2: success with Ringling. And he did that from fifty seven

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Speaker 2: to sixty seven, and at that point there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of absentee management and the show was deteriorating, and

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Speaker 2: he said, if I can't buy it this year, I'll

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Speaker 2: just stop promoting it. Because he didn't like the quality

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Speaker 2: of the show, and so it took him all year

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Speaker 2: to raise the money, and he and my uncle acquired

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Speaker 2: Ringling Brothers Born and Bailey, and the partner was Roy Hafeines,

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Speaker 2: who had built the Astrodome in Houston, Texas, and my

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Speaker 2: father and my uncle ran the circus. That was in

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Speaker 2: sixty seven, and my dad's idea was, hey, to cover

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Speaker 2: the entire United States, we really need two circuses, and

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Speaker 2: so he said, I want to create a second tour,

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Speaker 2: and so in sixty nine there were two tours of

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Speaker 2: Ringling Brothers Born and Bailey.

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Speaker 3: And then in.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy one he actually sold the company to Mattel

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Speaker 2: and by this time I was out of college so

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Speaker 2: worked for Mattel running Ringling. And then in nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 2: Mattel got in some financial issues and they had a

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Speaker 2: lot of non core assets, so we said we'd like

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Speaker 2: to buy Ringling back, and that's what we did. We

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Speaker 2: took a private again, and that's sort of how it

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Speaker 2: morphed into what it was. And two years later, in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, my father passed away suddenly, so.

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Speaker 3: I was sort of left with the whole business.

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Speaker 2: And you know, my kids were very young then, and

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Speaker 2: that was a real challenge overnight to take over the

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Speaker 2: greatest shaw on earth and try and grow the business,

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Speaker 2: which we did.

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Speaker 4: I want to give you a shout out that probably

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Speaker 4: one of the biggest shows we'd do at iHeart is

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Speaker 4: our jingle Ball each Christmas season around the country ten cities,

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Speaker 4: and it is really inspired by those rock and roll

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Speaker 4: shows that your dad did way back when the best artist,

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Speaker 4: the best songs, the biggest stuff of that particular year.

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Speaker 4: So what he started lives on and I'm sure an

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Speaker 4: inspiration for many others. Let me go to a story.

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Speaker 4: In the summer of sixty eight, while the world was

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Speaker 4: between the Summer of Love and Woodstock, you were actually,

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Speaker 4: as I understand, in Eastern Europe behind what was then

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Speaker 4: the Iron Curtain, looking to recruit circus performers. Can you

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Speaker 4: share that story?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: My father bought the show in sixty seven, so the

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Speaker 2: show was basically dumb for the sixty eight season, and

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Speaker 2: in the summer of sixty eight I went with the

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Speaker 2: talent scout that had been with the circus for many years,

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Speaker 2: a Swedish man who spoke seven languages and knew all

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Speaker 2: the best circus at primarily in Eastern Europe. So I

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Speaker 2: traveled with him all summer and learning for me what

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Speaker 2: was a good circus act and what happened.

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Speaker 3: In Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 2: And if you go even today all over the world,

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Speaker 2: their circus literally in every country on the planet. They

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Speaker 2: may not call it that, it might be acrobatics, it

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Speaker 2: might be something else, but it's circus or there's potential

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Speaker 2: circus acts. And they had these schools and it was

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Speaker 2: entertainment for the masses. We would go to the circus

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Speaker 2: schools and they would bring every act in the country

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Speaker 2: and in a three day period we would see everything

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Speaker 2: and then we would negotiate. Basically, it was with the

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Speaker 2: department of Culture in these countries because that's what the

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Speaker 2: circus was considered for the acts to bring the best

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Speaker 2: to Ringling for a period of time, and at that

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Speaker 2: time it was one year or two years and then

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Speaker 2: they would go back. But it was negotiating with the

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Speaker 2: countries that acted like the agents for the performers. So

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Speaker 2: it was fascinating for me and especially as a young person,

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Speaker 2: to have that opportunity and to really understand what these

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Speaker 2: people were going through, what it was like. And we

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Speaker 2: would hire many, many people from all over the world

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Speaker 2: and great performers, and you know, you would get to

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Speaker 2: know them. And every time I would go back, they

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Speaker 2: would have family and different things and introduce new actsor

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Speaker 2: they would say, what kind of act do you want?

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Speaker 2: We'd sit down and create an act, and you'd come

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Speaker 2: back in a year and they had it perfected, and

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Speaker 2: then we'd hire it for the following year.

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Speaker 3: And it was a great way to learn.

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Speaker 2: But the best thing was we're bringing talent and things

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Speaker 2: to American audiences that they would never see otherwise.

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Speaker 4: More a math in magic. Right after this quick break,

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Speaker 4: welcome back to Mathemagic. Let's hear more from my conversation

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Speaker 4: with Kenneth Feld. Let's jump to another big moment for you.

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Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty one was a big year for you because

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Speaker 4: you started Disney on Ice and you were able to

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Speaker 4: do a deal with Disney that was legendary for sort

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Speaker 4: of doing it all themselves, not about partnering. How did

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Speaker 4: that happen?

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Speaker 2: We, while we were with Mattel in seventy nine, acquired

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Speaker 2: Ice Follies and Holiday on Ice, and there were two

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Speaker 2: traditional ice shows and it was really something that I

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Speaker 2: got into right away and put together a new Ice

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Speaker 2: show and business was okay. And I went out there

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Speaker 2: one Saturday and I looked up and I didn't see kids,

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Speaker 2: and it was a Saturday matinee, and I said, oh no,

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Speaker 2: this is a problem. So I went to Disney. I

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Speaker 2: got an appointment there with a gentleman. He was head

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Speaker 2: of their publishing at the time, and this was nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty and I said, I have a great idea. I

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Speaker 2: want to do a twenty minute segment in our Ice

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Speaker 2: show with Disney characters and we'll use it for marketing

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Speaker 2: and we'll figure out an arrangement.

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Speaker 3: Be great.

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Speaker 2: And he says, no, we're Disney, We're not part of

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Speaker 2: anything else. And he says, but you're a nice young man,

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Speaker 2: and I wish you well. And we're walking literally, this

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Speaker 2: is in Burbank at the Disney studio.

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Speaker 3: We're walking out of his.

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Speaker 2: Office and I turned around to him and I said,

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Speaker 2: what if we took one of our Ice shows and

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Speaker 2: converted the entire show to Disney characters and stories, and

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Speaker 2: we'll call it Walt Disney's World on Ice.

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Speaker 3: We literally turned around, went.

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Speaker 2: Back to his office, and he liked the idea, and

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Speaker 2: within two weeks we had a deal and we opened

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Speaker 2: it in July nineteen eighty one, and it had every

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Speaker 2: Disney character you can imagine at that time. And at

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Speaker 2: the opening, Ron Miller, who was the CEO of Disney

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Speaker 2: at the time, came and he was married to Diane Disney,

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Speaker 2: and nobody knew if it was going.

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Speaker 3: To go well or not.

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Speaker 2: And I turn around and Diane Disney is sitting there

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Speaker 2: and she said to me, she said, oh, my father

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Speaker 2: would have loved this. And that was the ultimate endorsement

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Speaker 2: that you could get. And from that point on Disney

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Speaker 2: on Ice it was formed, and it became a real

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Speaker 2: rite of passage for every kid now around the world.

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Speaker 4: You rolled the dice on Disney on Ice. Although you

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Speaker 4: might argue Disney was big, you thought it was going

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Speaker 4: to be big. Let me talk about an even bigger

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Speaker 4: role of the day. I secret in roy as I

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Speaker 4: understand that the story was nobody thought that would work

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Speaker 4: in Vegas. It was so against what Vegas was about,

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Speaker 4: and it was so against that you actually had to

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Speaker 4: bankroll it because it was so out of the mainstream

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Speaker 4: and so risky and again obviously turned into a monster hit.

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Speaker 4: What did you see that others missed? And how did

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Speaker 4: you make that happen.

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Speaker 2: The first time I ever saw Sick Freedom Roy was

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Speaker 2: on spring break from college. I was at Puerto Rico

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Speaker 2: and there this follies bridge air type show at the

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Speaker 2: Americana Hotel and they were in it. And there's two

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Speaker 2: guys that at the time they had a leopard and

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Speaker 2: they were doing magic and the leopard would disappear and

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Speaker 2: all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: They were amazing.

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Speaker 2: And fast forward later on, actually in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 2: I did a TV show with a circus performer, gun

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Speaker 2: Thor Gabrael Williams, who did worked with all kinds of

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Speaker 2: animals and as part of that, they were at that

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Speaker 2: time in Vegas show at Ballet's and we got to

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Speaker 2: know each other, and then they went to the Stardust

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Speaker 2: and I produced two TV shows on NBC and then

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Speaker 2: we opened the show at the Frontier in nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 2: and they had done really well with that, but Steve

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Speaker 2: Wynn was building the Mirage and I went to Steve

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Speaker 2: and we worked out an arrangement and we basically put

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Speaker 2: the show together. Had somebody designed the theater, which he built.

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Speaker 2: It was something that was extraordinary and I thought it

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Speaker 2: was going to be a five million dollar show investment

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Speaker 2: for us, and it wound up being over a thirty

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Speaker 2: million dollar investment to do what it was and there

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Speaker 2: was technology that no one had ever seen. And we

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Speaker 2: opened February first of nineteen ninety and it became a

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Speaker 2: hit and it was unique in the world and it

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Speaker 2: just grew from there.

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Speaker 4: Let's jump a little bit on corporate culture. How do

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Speaker 4: you think about it, How do you describe your corporate culture,

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Speaker 4: and how do you use it as a tool.

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Speaker 2: The first thing is that we spend most of our

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Speaker 2: time working, so you want people to have a good experience,

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Speaker 2: to be challenged, to be able to take chances and

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Speaker 2: not be penalized, not having a fear of failure. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's the most difficult thing to express to people,

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Speaker 2: and you want to give them the confidence that they

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Speaker 2: can do it. And I'm fortunate because I have president

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Speaker 2: of the company that is extraordinary in motivating people and

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Speaker 2: mentoring people of bringing them along. It's one thing to

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Speaker 2: have an idea, but everybody has ideas, and ideas are cheap.

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Speaker 2: Implementation is what the premium is. And we have teams

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Speaker 2: of people that love to be challenged, love to do

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Speaker 2: things that no one else does. And that's the kind

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Speaker 2: of culture we have. But I come to work every day,

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Speaker 2: I walk around our facility, I talk to everybody. The

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Speaker 2: people are what make an organization. You have to treat

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Speaker 2: them right. You have to give them a feeling of caring,

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Speaker 2: of belonging, and of making a difference. I think that's

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Speaker 2: how you create a great management team.

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Speaker 4: Jeff Bezos famously talks about disagree and commit as a

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Speaker 4: way to think about how you channel dissent and how

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Speaker 4: you avoid it killing you. What's your view on descent

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Speaker 4: and how do you use it?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: The problem is when you're CEO of a company, or

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Speaker 2: you run the company, or you own the company, people

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Speaker 2: tend to tell you what they think you want to hear.

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Speaker 2: And I always think I'm right. So I want people

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Speaker 2: to tell me, no, there's another way. Be respectful with it,

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Speaker 2: but tell me that. I think it's one of the

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Speaker 2: great things about having family. My daughters, they have no

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Speaker 2: fear to tell me whatever they think.

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Speaker 3: I learned from that. The other thing is this, it's

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Speaker 3: seventy five years old.

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Speaker 2: I don't think like my customer does in the same

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Speaker 2: way because my customers, for the most part, are parents

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Speaker 2: with kids, and so they're a lot younger than I am,

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Speaker 2: and they think about things differently. So I learned when

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Speaker 2: I can take my grandkids out to one of our

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Speaker 2: shows or any show, I learn more from them. And

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Speaker 2: the one thing that we always do is listen to

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Speaker 2: the audience. They always tell you the truth. You can

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Speaker 2: tell by the applause or you can tell by the

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Speaker 2: lack of applause. Everything we do is for the audience.

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Speaker 2: It isn't for us, and I think that's important. So

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Speaker 2: you don't let your quote unquote good ideas or bad

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Speaker 2: ideas get in the way. Because the audience, they vote

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Speaker 2: every time they buy a ticket, and we focus on

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Speaker 2: family entertainment, and that's what it is. It's parents, it's grandparents,

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Speaker 2: it's three generations can go to one of our shows

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Speaker 2: and they can all enjoy it. And everything we do

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Speaker 2: in the relaunch of Ringling Brothers Barnwin Bailey is based

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Speaker 2: on one thing, simple fun that everyone can enjoy.

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Speaker 4: That's it, Kenneth. We end each episode of Mathemamagic with

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Speaker 4: a shout out from each guest to the greats in

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Speaker 4: the purely creative side of the business. Those promoters, Showman,

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00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 4: the Magic the magicians, and then the other side of

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00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 4: the coin were also great business people. Are the math people,

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Speaker 4: those who see the world in such clear, analytical terms.

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Speaker 4: If you had to give a shout out to one

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Speaker 4: person on each side of that, who would it be.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there is one person because I probably

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Speaker 2: learned everything from him on both sides of that, the

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Speaker 2: magic and the math. And it was my dad. He

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Speaker 2: taught me how to count. He'd bring home before there

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00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: was ticketmaster, there was hard tickets. That's how I learned

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00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 2: how to count when I was five years old, was

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Speaker 2: the deadwood tickets, and so that was a great thing.

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Speaker 2: He was a brilliant businessman, but he was a visionary

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Speaker 2: again when it came to business, he had no fear.

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Speaker 2: And I think those are the things that I gleaned

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Speaker 2: from him that I take with me every day my life.

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Speaker 4: Kenneth, You've had a remarkable life. You've got a one

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Speaker 4: of a kind business. You've seen so much, built so

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Speaker 4: much much of it against the grain. Thanks for sharing

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Speaker 4: your stories today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Bob. I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 4: Here are a few things I picked up in my

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Speaker 4: conversation with Kenneth. One value people feld entertainment's a family business,

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Speaker 4: and that level of personal commitment benefits the entire company staff.

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Speaker 4: It's ultimately people who have ideas, make decisions, and create products.

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Speaker 4: So invest in them and respect them as if they

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Speaker 4: were your family. Two, put on a show. People are

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Speaker 4: hungry for experiences, whether in a time of crisis or not.

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00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 4: Audiences value the simple joy of a jaw dropping spectacle.

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Speaker 4: Even if you don't work in entertainment, the secret of

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00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: success could be to create a product that, above all else,

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Speaker 4: is fun and enjoyable to a wide range of people. Three,

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Speaker 4: the audience never lies. Your product is ultimately for your consumer,

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00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 4: not for you, so listen to what the audience wants.

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Speaker 4: Of course, this may be easy to gauge in live entertainment,

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Speaker 4: but it works for other industries too. Pay attention to

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Speaker 4: what your audience buys or how they interact with your product,

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Speaker 4: and it'll be obvious what they want. I'm Bob Pittman.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening

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Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The

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Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney

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Speaker 1: Rosenbloun for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is

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Speaker 1: no small feat. Math and Magic's producers are Emily Meronoff

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Speaker 1: and Jessica Crimechitch. It is mixed and mastered by Maheid Fraser.

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Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Nikki Etoor and Ali Perry, and

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Speaker 1: of course, a big thanks to Gail Raoul, Eric Angel

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Speaker 1: Noel and everyone who helped bring this show to your ears.

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Speaker 1: Until next time