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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Lacrosse Boots. Now Lacrosse is at it again

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Speaker 1: with a new line of lace up hunting boots, the

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Speaker 1: Navigator series. And in that Navigator series there are two models.

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Speaker 1: There's the Atlas for men and the wind Rows for

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Speaker 1: both men and women. To find out more information about

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Speaker 1: this new Navigator series, visit Lacrosse Footwear dot com. My

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Speaker 1: name is Clay Nucom and I'm the host of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into

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Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness. There,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also bring

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Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country on the planet.

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Speaker 1: Chasing better something that's been in the ground for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years? How did it get there? Was it dropped?

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Speaker 1: Was it shot at something? And and and it's buried

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Speaker 1: and you come along and pick it up, and all

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Speaker 1: you can do is wonder how these people live? Everyone

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Speaker 1: I've picked up and you're I guess this is what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people think. But you learned how was

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Speaker 1: it lost? Was it shot at a deer? Was it

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Speaker 1: shot at a bear? Was it just discarded because it

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Speaker 1: was not usable anymore. Was it lost? Did someone give

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Speaker 1: it to his son and his irresponsible son lost it?

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Speaker 1: But that boy, right, there's lost a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: of mine. If you are a hunter, there's probably deep

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Speaker 1: inside of you somewhere some real curiosity and a desire

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Speaker 1: to know more about Native Americans, how they use this land,

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Speaker 1: and how they hunted. On this podcast, we're gonna jump

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Speaker 1: start you by fifteen years in your knowledge of Native

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Speaker 1: of American stone projectile points number one, number two, who

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Speaker 1: came here first in North America, where they came from?

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Speaker 1: And all the different ideas of where these people came from,

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Speaker 1: and and understanding of the different time periods in which

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Speaker 1: humans have been here in North America. And the reason

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Speaker 1: I say fifteen year jump start is because fifteen years

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Speaker 1: I've been highly interested in Native American stone projectile points

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Speaker 1: as we began to find points on our property in

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Speaker 1: different places, and I've just gathered information from different sources

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Speaker 1: different places. I never really could find like a dummies

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Speaker 1: guide to stone projectile points in Native American history of

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Speaker 1: North America, and so I wanted to sit down with

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Speaker 1: an expert. And that's just what we're gonna do on

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Speaker 1: this podcast when we sit down with Dr Adam Gray

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Speaker 1: and he talks about but we just have a fascinating

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Speaker 1: conversation for about an hour and fifteen minutes that really,

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Speaker 1: if you listen to this, you will have a ton

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Speaker 1: of valuable information that's going to that's gonna project you

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Speaker 1: into more study or if you just learn some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, you're just gonna be fascinated. So incredible conversation,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy this podcast. I want to draw your

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Speaker 1: attention as well as we come into the fall season

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Speaker 1: here and we're baiting bears and different parts of the country.

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Speaker 1: products that they have for drawing in bears. But they've

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Speaker 1: also got just spray bottles full of scent all types

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Speaker 1: of different flavors that've got some dry powder scents. But

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Speaker 1: check out our friends at north Woods the air products

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Speaker 1: this fall and we're pounding away right now on the

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Speaker 1: September October issue of Bear Hunting Magazine. This issue will

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Speaker 1: be in the hands of our subscribers before September one,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very good issue, a lot of good

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Speaker 1: how to stuff, a lot of a lot of great content.

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Speaker 1: We've got an article about Eddvance, who was on the

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Speaker 1: last podcast. We've got some scouting tips for fall bear hunting.

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Speaker 1: We've got five creative ways to kill a bear in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen the fall. We've got this story about my

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Speaker 1: five and fifty pound Oklahoma black bear from last year.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not a subscriber to Bear Hunting Magazine,

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Speaker 1: check it out at bear dash Hunting dot com, Bear

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Speaker 1: hyphen Hunting dot com. We are in Melbourne, Arkansas. This

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Speaker 1: is my first time to Melbourne, Arkansas. Well, welcome. We're

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne, Arkansas, and uh I am in the home

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Speaker 1: of Dr Adam Gray. You're you're a medical doctor, Adam.

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Speaker 1: That's correct. I've just been calling you Adam. That's that's

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Speaker 1: all right. Please call me Adam. So where you you

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Speaker 1: work out of Melbourne? Is there a hospital in Melbourne?

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Speaker 1: There's not a hospital here, but I have a family

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Speaker 1: practice clinic here where at least space from Baxter Reason

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Speaker 1: Medical Center in Mountain Home and I have a family

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Speaker 1: practice clinic there with two nurse practitioners and also working

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Speaker 1: in an emergency room in Salem, Arkansas, and I also

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Speaker 1: attend to patients in five nursing comes around little jack

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Speaker 1: of jack of trades, you know, yeah, master of none.

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Speaker 1: Why I'm here is uh is you are? You? Were?

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Speaker 1: You were referred to me by a guy that I

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Speaker 1: kind of follow. That's beg into digging era heads for

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Speaker 1: the layman's terms, but stone projectile points Native American artifacts.

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Speaker 1: That's what you've devoted as I understand the last fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: you've you've become a collector. You're a you you find

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Speaker 1: our heads. You you know the you're you're a regional expert.

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Speaker 1: I would say, thank you. Um, I try to be

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Speaker 1: you know a lot more than me. Let me put

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Speaker 1: it out well, it's something that I've devoted a lot

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Speaker 1: of time too. And physicians are weird people. They don't

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Speaker 1: get into anything just a little bit there. There all

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Speaker 1: are none you know. Um. But but since I found

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Speaker 1: my very first area head with my son's mother about

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, it's become a hobby and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people would say an addiction. You know, there there

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Speaker 1: are people that that do this a lot, and and

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Speaker 1: it it takes up the large percentage of their time,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's a lot of fun. And it's great

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Speaker 1: fun for me and for my family. And I read

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Speaker 1: a lot of archaeology journals and learn about what we're finding,

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Speaker 1: and you can go back and learn about how these

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Speaker 1: people were living, you know, back in thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of years ago. Well, I'll start by telling you a

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Speaker 1: little bit of why I'm so interested in this and

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Speaker 1: and and I've already shared it with you a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But several years ago, we got mules. Were own seven

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Speaker 1: acres Washington County, Arkansas. There's a creek that borders the

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Speaker 1: front side of our property and a small tributary creek

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Speaker 1: that borders the western side. We started getting these mules,

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Speaker 1: and the mules made trails. They had spots where they

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Speaker 1: were rubbing, you know that where they were dusting, where

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Speaker 1: they ate the grass down, and where runoff started to create,

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Speaker 1: you know, bare spots out in this field, which is

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Speaker 1: bad for pasture health and soil health. But we started

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Speaker 1: bumping into these stone points in our front yard. And

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what I tell the kids every

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Speaker 1: time we pick one up is and it's so unique

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Speaker 1: when it happens on your own place, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into a lot more than just that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when I picked up that air head,

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Speaker 1: that first one, I told the kids, I said, the

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Speaker 1: last human that touched this before me was planning to

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Speaker 1: cook his meal over an open fire with a critter

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Speaker 1: that he killed with this stone. Yes, And I have

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Speaker 1: said that exact thing to my kids on numerous occasions.

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Speaker 1: Something that's been in the ground for thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: How did he get there? Was it dropped? Was it

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Speaker 1: shot at something? And and and it's buried and you

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Speaker 1: come along and pick it up, and all you can

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Speaker 1: do is wonder how these people live? Everyone I've picked

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Speaker 1: up and you're probably I guess this is what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people think. But you learned. How was it lost?

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Speaker 1: Was it shot at a deer? Was it shot at

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Speaker 1: a bear? Was it just discarded because it was not

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Speaker 1: usable anymore? Was it lost? Did someone give it to

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Speaker 1: his son and his irresponsible son lost it? That never

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Speaker 1: happened that boy, right, there's lost a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: of mine. Uh now, yeah, that's the mystery of it.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the intrigue of finding this ancient stuff

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Speaker 1: with people that were really just like us. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they were they were humans. They they they had they

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Speaker 1: had dream teams, and they cared about their families, and

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Speaker 1: they wanted their sons and daughters to prosper, and they

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Speaker 1: they they had needs that had to be met. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they were humans, but they lived in this lifestyle that

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Speaker 1: is so different than us. Right. They were camping three

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Speaker 1: sixty five, I mean, you know, and following the food

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Speaker 1: and food and water and shelter. Those are the three

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Speaker 1: things they had to have. Yeah, And and so they

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Speaker 1: developed over time these technologies that that would allow them

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Speaker 1: to procure what they needed in order to to reproduce,

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Speaker 1: to survive, and eventually to thrive and become you know,

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Speaker 1: the Mississippian period Native Americans that we all think of

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Speaker 1: when we hear the word Indian, right right, right, Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: this conversation is going to be difficult because you know

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Speaker 1: so much and have so many questions, and we're sitting

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Speaker 1: here in your your office, your library, and you have

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Speaker 1: this amazing collection of stone points from all over well

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Speaker 1: and most of them would be from the South, if

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Speaker 1: I guess, But some of them would be from other places. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I collect points from from mainly from what we call

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Speaker 1: the Central States, which would be from Nebraska to West

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Speaker 1: Virginia and Michigan down to Louisiana that area. Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: all the points in this area are somewhat related to

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Speaker 1: each other through time and in different space. We call

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Speaker 1: it spatially. You know, they overlapped areas and UH as

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Speaker 1: these point types evolved over thirteen thousand, five hundred years,

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Speaker 1: you can see uh similarities between different types of points

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Speaker 1: and you can see the evolution process and that gives

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Speaker 1: you clues into what the climate was like, and what

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Speaker 1: they were hunting and UH and and what they were

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Speaker 1: using these points for because not all of these points

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Speaker 1: were shot at things. Some of them would have been knives,

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Speaker 1: some of them may have been a true spirit point,

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Speaker 1: some may have been a true arrow point, some may

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Speaker 1: have been a tip to in that Lattle Dart. So, well,

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Speaker 1: there's several things I want to talk about. The first thing,

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Speaker 1: and and we're approached, and this from the standpoint of

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Speaker 1: like we're talking to people that don't know anything about

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Speaker 1: well about these people. And so my my first question

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Speaker 1: or what I want to talk about first is where

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Speaker 1: did these people come from? Boy, that's that's the sixty

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Speaker 1: four dollar question right there, and and and there is

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Speaker 1: there has been a theory that's been around for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and it's called the Clovis first theory. And that's, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's the null void point right now that we're trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out is that the case or not. But

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Speaker 1: that theory says, basically that it's believed that the first

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Speaker 1: Americans came across a Siberian land bridge over into Alaska,

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Speaker 1: through an ice free corridor through Alaska and Canada and

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Speaker 1: populated North America and then spread out into Central and

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Speaker 1: South America from there. Um. That theory that's been widely

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Speaker 1: accepted for a long time, a long time, a long time.

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Speaker 1: But there are some problems with that theory. And and

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Speaker 1: one of those theories is that one of the problems

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Speaker 1: with that theory is that that when they radiocarbon date um,

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Speaker 1: you can't radiocarbon data point, but you can radiocarbon date

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Speaker 1: something that's sitting next to it, like a like a

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Speaker 1: burnt acorn shell or hickory shell, because something that's got

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Speaker 1: carbon in it. When they get these associated dates for

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Speaker 1: Clovis points. They date older in the southeastern United States

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Speaker 1: and they do anywhere near Alaska or the northwestern United States,

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Speaker 1: and so that doesn't make sense. It doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: even stop you right there. So the Baring land Bridge

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Speaker 1: would have been an ice free zone because of glaciers

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Speaker 1: and a much colder climate, so the oceans were lower.

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Speaker 1: They were because much of the Earth's water was capped

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Speaker 1: into these glaciers. And so basically from Alaska to the

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Speaker 1: camp Chatka Peninsula of Russia would have been this thousand

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Speaker 1: mile wide land bridge. I recently heard a podcast from

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Speaker 1: a guy, uh Steve Ronnella, so some of the something

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Speaker 1: is just fresh on my mind. But they talked about

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Speaker 1: how and certainly people did cross that land bridge. They did,

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Speaker 1: so it's not we're not debating whether they crossed. What

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Speaker 1: you're going to talk about in a minute is the

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Speaker 1: theory of where they the first, because that's been the

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Speaker 1: that's been the main thing is were they the first people?

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Speaker 1: And so the that theory would have been that people

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Speaker 1: crossed over from Asia and they came in and from

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Speaker 1: Alaska basically populated North and South America. The Clovis site

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Speaker 1: is in New Mexico. And so what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: is that the oldest site that we know of from

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Speaker 1: radio carbon dating, finding these points, finding this mammoth skeleton

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Speaker 1: skeleton would have been older than anything north of it.

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Speaker 1: So if they would have been the first, there should

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Speaker 1: have been older sites. They're correct, and that's not what

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Speaker 1: they're finding, and so that doesn't support that theory. And

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Speaker 1: so there are some other theories that are being put

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Speaker 1: forth right now, and and some some have a lot

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Speaker 1: of support and some have a few. One of those

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Speaker 1: theories is that, Okay, let's let's go back and talk

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Speaker 1: about the Clovis Point for just a minute. Clovis points

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Speaker 1: are what we call fluted. The base of the point

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Speaker 1: has been thinned with something called direct percussion, where they

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Speaker 1: hit the rock directly and knocked flakes off of it

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Speaker 1: and thinned it. Um That technology does not exist anywhere

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Speaker 1: else on planet Earth. It is, and it is it

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Speaker 1: is only in North America, and it's widely regarded as

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Speaker 1: being the first invention in the New World because it's

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Speaker 1: not found anywhere else. But it's unlikely that someone stepped

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Speaker 1: across the burying land bridge and knocked out of Clovis

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Speaker 1: Point and went from there. They were using some kind

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Speaker 1: of tools before that technology was developed. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of people now believe that the Clovis technology started somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the southeastern United States and the technology spread much

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Speaker 1: more rapidly than the people spread. But it spread probably

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Speaker 1: northward and westward into a population that already existed. And

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Speaker 1: and so if if you believe that, then you still

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Speaker 1: have to ask the question what kind of tools were

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Speaker 1: they using before that? Where did they come from? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so if that, if what you just said is what happened,

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Speaker 1: then does that tell me Explain to me how that

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Speaker 1: could nullify that the that they weren't the first people.

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Speaker 1: The first people didn't come from the land bridge, right.

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Speaker 1: First of all, we we do have a lot of

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Speaker 1: information that we know that that Native American populations in

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Speaker 1: the United States and in Central America share certain genetic

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Speaker 1: haplotypes with people from Siberia. So we do know that

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Speaker 1: the d n A came from Siberia, at least some

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Speaker 1: of it. You know, there's no way to prove all

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Speaker 1: of it didn't, But so we do know they came

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Speaker 1: that from there. But but the the every all of

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Speaker 1: them did, that's a good question. We really don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's some some theories that say that there may be

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Speaker 1: some European d n A in groups um up in

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Speaker 1: the northeastern United States that share a lot of their

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Speaker 1: language patterns with Norwegian languages and the and and that

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Speaker 1: there were blue eyed Native Americans up in that part

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Speaker 1: of the country also, and so some people that would

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Speaker 1: have crossed over maybe a similar type of passage, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe from Norway through green Land and Iceland that area,

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Speaker 1: maybe skimming along the the oh when when there was

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Speaker 1: when the oceans were lower and there would be could

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Speaker 1: be right, So that's that's another theory. And and there's

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Speaker 1: also a theory that the cloths technology came from a

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Speaker 1: previous technology that that that existed in France called a

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Speaker 1: salutary in technology. There are a lot of similarities between

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Speaker 1: the two technologies. Uh Solutrians didn't flute their points, but

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Speaker 1: but other than that, the technologies and the toolkits that

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Speaker 1: they used were very similar. Um. So there's could it

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Speaker 1: could it not be possible that two people would come

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Speaker 1: up with the same thing though independently there's that highly

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Speaker 1: unlike it's highly unlikely because if it were to happen,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen in the same continent. It would have

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Speaker 1: happened around the world, like so many other different technologies

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Speaker 1: have evolved. Okay, I see what's so you're saying, because

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Speaker 1: it happened one place here and something very similar happened

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Speaker 1: one place here, that they're connected. If it had happened

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Speaker 1: ten places, maybe this is like it would make more sense.

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Speaker 1: This is just the way that kind of if you

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Speaker 1: have a rock and you want to kill something and

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Speaker 1: start knocking around on it, you get that point, right right,

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Speaker 1: convergent evolution. I think that I think the biologists would

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Speaker 1: call that so rather than divergent evolution. But there are

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Speaker 1: many many technologies around the world that have evolved separate

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Speaker 1: from one another but ended up being the same thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. But but I don't think the flutid point

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Speaker 1: technology is one of those at all. So we're looking

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Speaker 1: at we're looking at a fluted point type that that

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Speaker 1: was invented in North America and found nowhere else in

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Speaker 1: the world. First American invention, right, very first. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's an interesting way to look at that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There are also some theories that that maybe um, some

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Speaker 1: Polynesians or other groups populated the western hemisphere from South America,

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Speaker 1: the very southern part of South America, where there are

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Speaker 1: some very old uh sites down there that dated date

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Speaker 1: much older than anything in North America. Uh. There's another

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Speaker 1: point type in South and Central America called the hel

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Speaker 1: Hobo Point, and there are some people who are theorizing

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Speaker 1: now that that point type traveled north from there and

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Speaker 1: then became a fluted point called a Cumberland point, and

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Speaker 1: that Cumberland points evolved into Clovis points. Now that's a

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Speaker 1: sticky that's a sticky subject with a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: because everybody's got their opinion on this. But the problem

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Speaker 1: with it is Cumberland points haven't been well dated anywhere yet. Well,

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Speaker 1: so are you saying that the oldest sites that we

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Speaker 1: know between North and South America are in South America? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So for that with that, when did that knowledge come forth?

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Speaker 1: It's been in the last fifteen or twenty years relatively, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess for And I've talked to several

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Speaker 1: vocational archaeologists about that, and and some of them just

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Speaker 1: blow it off and say, no, there's problems with the data.

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Speaker 1: The dates aren't good, things like this. But there's a

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Speaker 1: whole another camp. And that's how science works. You have

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Speaker 1: to put forth something and then you discuss it and

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Speaker 1: they come to a consensus about it. Twenty years later

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Speaker 1: they decide if it was writer right. So but but inside,

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Speaker 1: I mean it is plausible. I guess that inside of

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Speaker 1: the burying land bridge theory, what would you what would

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Speaker 1: you call that? Just some clothes first, and the first

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Speaker 1: kind of encompasses that. So with the clothes first theology,

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Speaker 1: it's it would just be happenstance that just the oldest

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Speaker 1: site we found was in South America. Like so there's

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Speaker 1: older ones, we just hadn't found them. This just happens

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Speaker 1: to be the one we found way down there. And

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Speaker 1: and there are some there are some sites in North

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Speaker 1: America that that have been radiocarbon dated human occupation older

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Speaker 1: than any any known low the states that we have

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Speaker 1: in North America, um, the Topper site, the met Across

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Speaker 1: Rock Shelter site, with some sites that we know there

348
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Speaker 1: were people living there, we just haven't found any tools

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Speaker 1: yet or anything that's diagnostic that can tell us these

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Speaker 1: people were these people. So then they've got some very

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Speaker 1: crude stone tools. I think that's eventually gonna happen. I

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Speaker 1: think those sites are extremely rare and we just haven't

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Speaker 1: found the right one yet. You know, when you think

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Speaker 1: about the amount of land space in the in the

355
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Speaker 1: amount of that space that has actually been excavated by

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Speaker 1: people that knew what they were doing, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm just novice, just thinking, but I mean, it's like

358
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Speaker 1: there could be something two ft under the foundation of

359
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Speaker 1: your house that could unlock the whole story and that

360
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Speaker 1: will never know You never know it's there, I mean,

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Speaker 1: And so I guess you, I mean, you just have

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Speaker 1: to work with what you do know, right, And and

363
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Speaker 1: I'm I would call myself in a vocational archaeologist and

364
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Speaker 1: amateur archaeologists. And you know, I don't do this for

365
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Speaker 1: a living. I do it for fun. I don't excavate

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Speaker 1: in a controlled fashion like archaeologists do. But they're archaeologists

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Speaker 1: are limited in what they can do. They first of all,

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Speaker 1: they're relying on public moneys most of the time, which

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Speaker 1: is limited and it's just not a priority in our

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Speaker 1: culture unfortunately. But they're also limited by time. They have

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Speaker 1: to stand back and and brush dirt off of things

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Speaker 1: and find them and record them. And we're we're you know,

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Speaker 1: people who like to go out and find their heads.

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Speaker 1: You know, they do it at there when they want to,

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Speaker 1: when the weather is good, and they do a lot

376
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Speaker 1: of it. And so most of the knowledge that we

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Speaker 1: have about point types actually come from people who don't

378
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Speaker 1: do this for a living. Yeah, that's interesting. So the

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Speaker 1: best thing that can happen is is for archaeologists and

380
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Speaker 1: and people who hunt these points to come together and

381
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Speaker 1: and find a way to work together to identify a site.

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Speaker 1: And I'll give you a good example. Dr Julie morrow

383
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Speaker 1: Over at a s u IS is a friend of

384
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Speaker 1: my and she has spent a significant portion of her

385
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Speaker 1: career and looking for a Clovis site in Arkansas that

386
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: is stratified and can be dated and studied, and it

387
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Speaker 1: just hasn't happened yet. Um, and she's not gonna be

388
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Speaker 1: by Clovis side. That means the technology of that fluted

389
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Speaker 1: point bottom right and and and she's not likely to

390
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Speaker 1: find that unless somebody comes forward somewhere and says, hey,

391
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Speaker 1: we're finding this stuff here, you need to come excavate this.

392
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Speaker 1: And so you know, we've got to figure out a

393
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: way to work together. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. So okay,

394
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: so we've established that. Now, would you say the clothes

395
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: first is still the predominant theory, but there's just some

396
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: other things that kind of don't make sense, don't totally

397
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: make sense, right and and so right now we're still

398
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: going with that theory. Closed first. That's the oldest point

399
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: type that we know of. So that was five years, yes, roughly, yes, so,

400
00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: but that's in New Mexico. Right, So the first the

401
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: first people that came over the burying land bridge would

402
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: have been how long ago? Oh, that's a good question. Um.

403
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: You know, there are some sites in North America now

404
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: that that data up to fourteen fifteen thousand years, and

405
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: they probably and that's the buzzword number that I have heard,

406
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 1: thousand years there have been there's been human occupation North America.

407
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Speaker 1: And you know, they probably didn't didn't get a group

408
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: of ten thousand people in march them across the Berian Lanberge.

409
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: They probably came in waves, you know, ten or twenty

410
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: or thirty here, and you know, and so there was

411
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: kind of constant infusion of these people coming across here seasonally,

412
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Speaker 1: you know, when the weather permitted. They were probably following food,

413
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: which is what most you know, that's what they were doing.

414
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: They were following whatever whenever they could eat and uh,

415
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: and so eventually they just found their way over here

416
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: and then got a little further south. And now you

417
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: said something earlier about the genetics, So talk to me

418
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: a little bit about that. Like, so they've taken because

419
00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: there's still intact tribes of Native Americans that are today,

420
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: and so they're able to do genetic testing on these

421
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: people compare those that you and I know nothing of

422
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: this other than just the idea of but with people

423
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: over and from where, from Siberia primarily. Uh, they've done

424
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: some testing on DNA haplotypes from Siberia and Japan and

425
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: even Polynesian countries and compared that uh to d N

426
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: A that that has been voluntarily given by Native Americans. Now,

427
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: an interesting caveat to that is is that a lot

428
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Speaker 1: of the North American Native Americans, UH that we're familiar

429
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: with those tribes, they refuse to give any blood for sampling,

430
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: um and and they have their reasons for that, and

431
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: you have to just respect that. So most of the

432
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: haplotyping that's been done has been done on Central American

433
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: Native Americans. Yeah, so they're having to compare to those.

434
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: But but it's assumed that they're related, you know, and

435
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: most likely they are, you know. So that's that's just

436
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: an interesting little caveat So it's like, so about a

437
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: doubt these people can be connected back October there no doubt,

438
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: no doubt at all, no doubt at all. And then

439
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: and and uh dr Morrow has been involved with with

440
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: a little bit of that. I believe it's the Anasic

441
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: side out in the northwestern United States where where an

442
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: infant was found buried with Clovis tools, Clovis by faces,

443
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: large what they call platter by faces and Clovis points

444
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: and DNA was recovered from that skeleton and compared. And

445
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: so that skeleton has been shown to be related to

446
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: uh Native Americans in the western Hemistinal. Okay, if if it,

447
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: if the Clovis first idea wasn't true, wouldn't there be

448
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: people in South America that were connected to some other

449
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: part of the world, right right? And and I'm not

450
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: getting any of that um in in the literature that

451
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: I'm reading. I get very little coming out of South America.

452
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: You probably would have just something to talk to somebody

453
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: who knew a little bit more about that but yes,

454
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: um so and and it's and and that study, by

455
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: the way, is in its infancy right now. They're they're

456
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: still identifying ways to mark genetics through time. Mitochondrial DNA

457
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: and certain haplotypes um seem to persist through lineages and

458
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: some don't. So they're still finding these markers and it's

459
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: and it's and it's blossoming right now. They're gonna start

460
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: testing people, uh and and find out that there there

461
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: may be some European DNA, there may be some Polynesian DNA.

462
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: We won't know, you know, until you get a large

463
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: number a large sample together. And when they do that,

464
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna find some interesting things. I think, yeah, yeah, okay,

465
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: So we've established that people for sure came across there,

466
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: there's some we don't know exactly where everybody came from, right,

467
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: But then what did they do and how did they

468
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Because would pretty much every part of North America have

469
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: had some Native American habitation, I mean, I know, in

470
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: in other than places that would have been covered by glaciers.

471
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: These people were obviously explorers and they were not afraid

472
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: of what it was around the next corner. I don't

473
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: know if you've been on a good fishing stream, and

474
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: you can't wait to see what's around the next corner.

475
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: But that's the way they were, and they were they

476
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: couldn't wait to see what was what was around the

477
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: next corner, what what could I eat over there? And

478
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: they eventually just spread out across North America, filled every

479
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: corner of it, and then and then they started populating.

480
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: The period that where the Clovis people were here is

481
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: called the Paleolithic period um and and really Native American

482
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: history in the United States can be kind of divided

483
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: into about five different time periods. The Paleo would be

484
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: Clovis points Folsom points a lot about in their thousand

485
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: five years section period of time. There's five sections sections

486
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: of yahi section of development, and they are used to

487
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: describe how they were living. So this Paleo period, there

488
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: were bands of people, probably small bands of people that

489
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: were chasing mega fon big animals that don't exist today.

490
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: And they were they were hunters, that's what they were doing.

491
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: They lived on meat. They may have you know, collected

492
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: some things along the way, you know, but they were

493
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: not planting anything. They were not foraging. They were hunting

494
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: and uh and they were hunting things like bison antiquois,

495
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: which are old bison that were much bigger than the

496
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: bison that we think of today. UM mastodon, mammoth, giant sloth,

497
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: giant beaver, um, short faced bear. I don't know if

498
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: you've heard of that one or not. Big big stuff,

499
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: and these people were probably pretty tough. You didn't want

500
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: to come across them. So the Paleold Period, well, just

501
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: for people listen, this is a This is something that

502
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: I have as just a novice at this It is

503
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: something that's marked in my mind. That's helped me is

504
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: I've tried to understand stuff back this big geologic time

505
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: and stuff is the the Pleistocene period ended ten thousand

506
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: years ago. That's about right in the place to scene.

507
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: So so ten thousand years ago is when all those

508
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: big guys died off, When the mammoths died, that's when

509
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: the short faced bears died, that's when the separatetooth cats died,

510
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: that's when the American lion died. Like, but there were

511
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: humans living during that time here. They were here and

512
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: for a long time in American archaeology, they didn't know that.

513
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: They didn't believe that. Um, but then you know, Clovis

514
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: and fulsome sights changed that they found man made points

515
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: mixed in with skeletons from mastodon in Missouri and mammoth

516
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: in New Mexico, and and that was that was big.

517
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: That was huge to to know that mankind men were

518
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: here with these animals at the same time. You know,

519
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. And that was back in

520
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: the thirties, you know, So we've known that since then,

521
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: and it's just that when the Clovis site was found,

522
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: but that got in Mexico right a long time ago.

523
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: But then there was something else in Missouri. Yes, I'm

524
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: not that there's another side up in Missouri and there's

525
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: a state park just uh this side of St. Louis,

526
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: and I believe it's called the Chemswick Side, if I'm

527
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty neat place. So

528
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to interrupt you. And I'm trying to

529
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: just piece all this together. So this is just like

530
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm having a private conversation with you, trying to answer

531
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: my questions. But okay, So there's thirteen thousand, five hundred

532
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: years of occupation, five different time periods. The first one

533
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: was Paleo and during that paleo time period is when

534
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: humans were hunting mastodons and fighting short face bears, right, Okay,

535
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: so start me back from there, all right. So from there,

536
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: um as the as the environment changed, the glaciers were retreating,

537
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: the climate was warming up in these megaphon and were disappearing,

538
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: the archael just caught the economy. The economy change what

539
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: they were doing, uh, and so they had to figure

540
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: out different ways to to survive. And so that's really

541
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: when the white tail deer became a big, big food source, uh,

542
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: for for natives in this And we're there white tailed

543
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: deer back before the most certainly. And there were elk

544
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: in Arkansas there were, yes, they were, yes, they they

545
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: just were one that survived that whatever happened. And so

546
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: there's a big thing of something happened very rapidly, very

547
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: quickly killed off all these critters in in the in

548
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: the vegetation changed, the landscape changed. And I'd be honest

549
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: with you if I had if I had ten guys

550
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: with me and we were going to decide whether or

551
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: not we were gonna go try to kill a mastodon

552
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: or if we're gonna hunt down a whitetail deer, you know,

553
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: go for the mastodon. And you know, if if you

554
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: can coordinate a hunt and bring one down, you can

555
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: feed your whole clan for a long time. Deer or

556
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: not easy to kill. And so when they started having

557
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: to rely on killing elk and deer and smaller animals,

558
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: they had to come up with a different way to

559
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: do that. And and so the point type technology really

560
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: changed about ten thousand, five hundred years ago to about

561
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: about eight thousand and years ago. Um. And and they

562
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: weren't making these fluted points anymore. They were making different

563
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: types of points that were placed on the end of

564
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: a stick that was slung at an animal with a

565
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: tool called on that laddle. Um. That's when that technology

566
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: started somewhere around that. Well, that was what I was

567
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: gonna ask it. So all the cloths points were spears, yes,

568
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: they were probably on right, Yeah. And and they were

569
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: having to surround those creatures and bring them down, you know,

570
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: trap them in a watering hole something like that. But

571
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: but all those disappeared and so they had to start,

572
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, hunting other things to survive. And they also

573
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: started probably picking some berries. You know, in two or

574
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: three thousand years of experience, there was probably somebody in

575
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: that tribe of people that knew that the red berries

576
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: were good and the blueberries were bad. And so then

577
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: now they've got some kind of an idea of what's

578
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: safe to eat and what's not. So they started foraging

579
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: more and and and eating meat when they had it.

580
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: They probably were eating a lot of muscles out of

581
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: the you know, freshwater muscles, and and you a lot

582
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: more things, eating rabbits and small mammals things like that.

583
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: So everything changed, and in this particular region of the country, uh,

584
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: one of the one of the most spectacular and fantastic

585
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: point types in North American history evolved, and it's called

586
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: the Dalton point uh and and around here Dalton points

587
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: are highly regarded for their workmanship and for their quality,

588
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: their size. Uh and in there they're a view very

589
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: beautiful point type. And and that type persisted for maybe

590
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: a thousand years. And that point type then evolved into

591
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: probably several dozen other point types after that. So it's

592
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: kind of the granddad that was that the first is

593
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: that the next progression from Clovis Clovis Andalton right so

594
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: close describe a Dalton a Dalton point, uh boy, some

595
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: can be over a foot long. Most of them are

596
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: two or three inches long. They're generally the outline, as

597
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: they call it, auriculate, but it's it's shaped a lot

598
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: like a Clovis point. Uh. And some of them have

599
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: some fluting, but the fluting on them was created by

600
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: different means. It wasn't They weren't hit directly with another rock.

601
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: They were hit indirectly with something placed in between the

602
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: point in the in the striking device. And a lot

603
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: of Clovis points are excusing. Dalton points are not fluted

604
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: at all, um, but they're they're very similar in outline,

605
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: but you can look at them and see the way

606
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: they're flake. The flaking patterns different, the fluting type is different.

607
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: So this it's we're not just talking about and this

608
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: isthing I learned earlier is we're not just talking about shapes.

609
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: You're talking you're you guys are seeing technology. The way

610
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: that they're flaking these points, you bet you can. You

611
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: can look at the flaking pattern on a narrowhead and

612
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: you can tell generally what time period is made from

613
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: most of the time. Yeah, And and the way they

614
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: made their era has changed through time. You know, the Clovis,

615
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: the Clovis culture was Paleo and then the Dalton culture

616
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: transitioned that Paleolithic lifestyle into a more uh a little

617
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: bit more settled down lifestyle. And so they called this

618
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: Dalton period the transitional Paleo period. And so they're very old,

619
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: very old points, but they transitioned, um, these these hunters

620
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: into a hunter gatherers and you know type of situation.

621
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: And and that's the archaic and that's what came after

622
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: the Dalton points. Um. And and these people were relying

623
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: on anything they could get their hands on. They didn't

624
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: travel nearly as far uh, and they were more people

625
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: here too. They were starting right, and they were and

626
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: they were starting to form I wouldn't call them tribes

627
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: but clans maybe or groups of people that were inter related. Um.

628
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: They probably met certain times of the year at big

629
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: rivers and got together and shared technology, they shared stories.

630
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: They probably uh married off daughters and sons to other

631
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: tribes to you know, to to you know, prevent any inbreeding.

632
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: And they did a lot of things. But they were

633
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: but they were Archaic period that would be the third

634
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: after the Dalton that's a period Paleo Dalton arcad you

635
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: got it. And and the archaic can be further so

636
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: divided into early, middle, and late. But for what we're

637
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: talking about, just slumping it together it makes its gonna work. Um,

638
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: And that's taken us to like eight thousand years ago. Yeah,

639
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: the early Arcaic probably started around maybe nine hundred years

640
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: ago something like that and lasted till about five thousand,

641
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: four thousand, a period, very long time period. And it's

642
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: a it's a time period because of the progression of

643
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: technology stayed the same. It's the time periods differentiated by

644
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: a progression of technology. That and economy. That's the way

645
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: everything for that five thousand year period was fairly stable.

646
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: Fairly stable, yeah, in terms of what kind of animals

647
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: were here, when, what kind of technology they had, how

648
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: they were making a living actually, and I think and

649
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: as those populations grew and they learned how to do things,

650
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: life got a little easier for them. Uh. And so

651
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: what happened after that is is that people started interconnecting

652
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: with each other a lot more. Now, let's go back

653
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: to the Dalton culture for just a few minutes. They're

654
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: the first, Um, they're the first people in North America

655
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: that that used woodworking tools. Uh as far as we know. Uh,

656
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: they made an ads, a woodworking tool that's fairly diagnostic

657
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: of their culture. And they were they were making dugout

658
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: canoes and so they were the first people that were

659
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: probably using waterways, um that we know of. And and

660
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: they were also the first culture in North America to

661
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: to bury their dead in a location over time. Now,

662
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: all of these people most likely buried their dead, but

663
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: these people buried them in the same locations repeatedly. And

664
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: so the oldest known cemetery in North America is over

665
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: in Green County, Arkansas, and it's called the Sloane Side

666
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: uh and it was excavated in the nineteen eighties um

667
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: by by Dan Morris and some other archaeologists from this area,

668
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: and it was it was interpreted as that would be

669
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: interpreted from an anthropological position as a pretty a fairly

670
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: developed society. I mean, it's starting. It's coming from these

671
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: people that were just like just just kind of spread out, uncivilized.

672
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: And then this is showing, hey, these people are starting

673
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: to they're getting some structure to their society that would

674
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: have been in the Dalton period. By this time, there

675
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: wasn't tribes, no, they were just people. We really when

676
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: we think of the word tribe. We tend to think

677
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: of Quapo cattle, you know, these names that we have.

678
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 1: But these people, these people weren't. They didn't have names.

679
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 1: See that's news to me, right there, Adam. I mean,

680
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: I've never even thought of it that deep. Like I mean,

681
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: I hear about these Native American names and tribes and

682
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: would have thought that all these points could be brought

683
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: back to a certain This is making a lot of

684
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: sense to me. So that they were they were just people.

685
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: They were just people. And then as this over ten

686
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: thousand years, when society got really organized, that's when they

687
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: started having these more modern tribes. And they probably didn't

688
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: they probably didn't have a need for a name for

689
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: us because they weren't coming across other people that often,

690
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: so they didn't have to have didn't have to have

691
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: reason to say I would be forged only when you

692
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: had other people that you need to differentiate yourself from, right,

693
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: and so you know, and and and also you have

694
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: to remember they didn't have a written language, and so

695
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: this stuff was not written down, has passed down through

696
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: oral histories and and and I know Native Americans and

697
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: they talked about the ancient ones, just like the Egyptians

698
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: called to refer to their ancient ones. They're probably referring

699
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: to people that were here a long time before they were,

700
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: but didn't have a name, you know, just the ancient ones. Um.

701
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: So going back to these adults as they were, they

702
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: were very big group of people, and they they did

703
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: things that hadn't been done before they started to settle

704
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: down more. Uh. They made very high quality artifacts, mainly

705
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: project all points. UM. They weren't into making any kind

706
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: of artistic expression types of no, certainly no pottery, uh,

707
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: no effigies of animals or anything like that. Um. But

708
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: but they were they were a predecessor of many different

709
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: types of points that evolved over the Archaic period. Uh.

710
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: In the Archaic period in Arkansas is is a very

711
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: interesting time period. UM. In northern Arkansas, there are a

712
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: lot of caves and and there were a lot of

713
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: groups of people that utilize those caves on a regular basis.

714
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: You know, big overhangs. We've got these big limestone bluffs

715
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: with big, beautiful great shelters. Well, most most people who

716
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: hunt have been through some of these at some point

717
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: or another and seen the smoke stains on the top

718
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: of the cave. And that's old but they were utilizing

719
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: these for shelter and stay warm, stay dry, and they

720
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: were still probably in small bands at that point. But

721
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: that's what the Archaic and Arkansas is all about. It

722
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: was was people moving up and down these rivers and streams,

723
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: trying to stay close to freshwater, trying to stay warm,

724
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: trying to stay dry, trying to find some food and

725
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: just eke out in a living You know, it was tough.

726
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: You just can't we just we just can't imagine it.

727
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to pull you off of your because

728
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: we're going down through the time periods and I it

729
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: would be good to get kind of an overview of

730
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 1: the different time periods. So maybe this question is gonna

731
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: throw us off course, But when did they get to Arkansas?

732
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: When they when did they get to Arkansas? We we

733
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: have found Clovis points in Arkansas. They were here thirteen thousand,

734
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: five hundred years ago. Um. And and a matter of fact,

735
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: you know at my house here in Iszer County near Melbourne.

736
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: UM my house sits on top of the site that

737
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: we find arrowheads in a lot. And my son Liam

738
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: has found a Clovis point in our yard in our field.

739
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: It's thirteen thousand, five hundred years old. So they were here.

740
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: You know, they were here within you know that at

741
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: least that technology was here. There may have been here

742
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: people here before that, but we know that Clovis was

743
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: here in Arkansas. There here are there Clovis on the

744
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: East coast, you bet really bet Florida all the way

745
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: up into New York and and even southern Canada. All

746
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: the I would have I would have thought there would

747
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: have been like a like a I mean, if they

748
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: came from the barings trade, it seems like, I don't know.

749
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: I guess that technology just scattered and there's no way

750
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: to really tell what came before that. Are they were

751
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: following food? You have to remember they were following food.

752
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: Some of these later Archaic and Dalton cultures they may

753
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: have been traveling, traveling up and down river systems and

754
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: staying within a kind of a defined area that they

755
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: called their own. But the but the Clovis people and

756
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: these Paleolithic people, they were following food. If the if

757
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: the mastodon went over there, they went over there. I mean,

758
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: it was they just followed the food. How long it

759
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: would take a gone foot to travel from Alaska to

760
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: the East host of the United States. It's interesting because

761
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: that study has been done and it takes a long

762
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: time and then and that's one of the reasons that

763
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense is because the dating period for

764
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: Clovis points is just within a few hundred years, but

765
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: they estimated with taken man a lot longer than that.

766
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Just hunting and following game to spread out through North

767
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: America doesn't make sense. I wonder how fast a guy

768
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: could do it if you just walk. I mean, like

769
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: two years, take me a lot longer than that. I mean,

770
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: they would have had no reason to just walking a debt.

771
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean, they wouldn't have done that. But if you

772
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: think about it from that perspective though, like I mean,

773
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: maybe they could have in five years walked from there

774
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: east coast. So I guess when you think about it

775
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: like that, it's not as big a stretch as you

776
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: might think. Yeah, but you gotta remember too, there were

777
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: no roads. There was nothing. There's nobody even to tell

778
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: you which way to go, you know, So it was

779
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 1: more meandering than it was walking the straight line anywhere,

780
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: but up and down mountains. Can you imagine they didn't

781
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: know where the mountain passes were. They didn't know, you know,

782
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: and they had to fallow water. And so anytime you

783
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: had to fallow water, you're you're not walking a straight line.

784
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: You're following a river, which is rarely a straight line.

785
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: And they didn't have any reason to move other than

786
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: food or maybe they've been pushed out by something another group.

787
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: So it's like it's not like they were trying to

788
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: go somewhere. They were just trying to get to the

789
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: next place that they could make a living. Right Imagine

790
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: imagine walking out into the bare woods with all your

791
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: stuff and knowing you're never coming back home again, and

792
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: whatever you had with you, that's what you had to

793
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: survive with, you know, and then you had to make it.

794
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: When you ran out of it, you had to make

795
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: more of it or you didn't get anymore. You know,

796
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: are heads or points or arrows or whatever. It's it's

797
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: it's beyond our comprehension. We have it so until today,

798
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: it's it's tough to think about. You know, I've been

799
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: out hunting before and after a few hours my feet

800
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: get cold and I'm done. You know, they couldn't be done.

801
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: What do they think the lifespan of the like paleo

802
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: people would have been thirty years. Yeah, that's a that's

803
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: a probably a pretty good estimate. You know, they probably

804
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: died of t or you know, some type of disease.

805
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: That's right. These people probably looked a lot older than

806
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: they were. Yeah, yeah, I think about that. A thirty

807
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: year old man being an old man culture probably a

808
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: wise man. He's seen a lot, probably after thirty years. Yeah,

809
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: So what comes after arcic archaic? Well, the archaic the

810
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: arcaic is replaced by a time period called the Woodland

811
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: time period. And in the Woodland time period again can

812
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: be divided into two or three more um time periods,

813
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: but we'll stick with just Woodland. They were much more settled. Um.

814
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: They started developing pottery. Uh, they learned to use clay.

815
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: They used to had a little more free time than

816
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: they did. They did, they started making some art. Well,

817
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: they had figured out where the good spots were. It's

818
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: like it's like you don't tell somebody where your good

819
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: airhead spot is. They had found where the good places

820
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: to live were, and they stayed there, you know, And

821
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: and they started learning to gather a lot more and

822
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: and maybe a little bit of planting of things going on.

823
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: Maybe he's planning some wild wild seeds and starting to

824
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: know how to do this, developing that kind of knowledge. UM.

825
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: But that allowed the Native Americans in North America a

826
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: lot more free time. And that's an important thing because

827
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: when that happens, UM cultures start creating things of beauty,

828
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: things that reflect their identity UM, who they are. And

829
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: and that's that's important because the hope Well tradition that

830
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: that kind of sprouted out in Indiana and Ohio and

831
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: Illinois and Tennessee and Kentucky UM had its roots spread

832
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: out all across the United States. They're they're bringing in

833
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: obsidian from the western United States that can be found

834
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 1: in mounds in Ohio. Uh So the hope Well tradition

835
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: was basically this idea that these tribes were coming together

836
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: to trade. It probably was probably wasn't one group of people,

837
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: but it was lots of groups of people that were

838
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: interconnected by networks and trading and understanding UM. And so

839
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're bringing in mica from Georgia. They're

840
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: bringing counk shells from the Gulf of Mexico, and and

841
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: pick and church from north central Arkansas. Uh They're bringing

842
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: in the finest materials from everywhere, and they're trading things

843
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: now and so things are more stable. Um, they've got

844
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: a lot more access to to better food, more calories,

845
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: better shelter. They're learning how to do things, and from

846
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: that really erupted an artistic movement from Native Americans. That's

847
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: that's wow. It's they make they would make um clay

848
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: pipes that they would they were starting to use copper

849
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: uh to make plates and and ornamental objects. Uh, a

850
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: lot of what we call effigies um. And effigy is

851
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: a is a representation of usually an animal or a person.

852
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: But they would turn those into into pipes and decorative

853
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: objects and pendance and all kinds of things. So we

854
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: have a lot of that knowledge and the Woodland period,

855
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: which when when would the woodland time period have been?

856
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: It probably would start around thirty years ago and maybe

857
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: go to about just like yesterday. Yeah, as it was,

858
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: it was not it's it's still very old, but it's

859
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: that it's much younger than these people that were chasing

860
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: the mastodon um. And then you know, after this woodland period,

861
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: the cities of North America started to develop and you know,

862
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: you have to think about um, you know, poverty point

863
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: down in Louisiana UH Mounds that were made over just

864
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: east of Little Rock Toll Tech Mounds, and and and

865
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: and you know the mounds up in in uh southern Illinois,

866
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: the Khokia Mounds. This really transitioned into the Mississippian period.

867
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: It's called um people were living on much larger. Is

868
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: that the final period? This is the final period before contact,

869
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: last precontinent. Let me try this, Paleo Dalton archaic woodland Mississippi.

870
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: You got it, man, I've heard those words my whole

871
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: life and every it's real confusing unless you just, yeah,

872
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: sit down and just do what we're doing here exactly.

873
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: And and it's taking me fifteen years of a lot

874
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: of time to to learn all this stuff into and

875
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, to acquire a collection of points from all

876
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: these different time periods so you can really visually see it. Well,

877
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: it makes sense in front of it. And so the

878
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: the woodland, would that have been the time period when

879
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: the tribes begin to probably so build some identity and

880
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: have names, right, I would say so they probably had

881
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: identities at that point. And and and they were interconnected

882
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: in the using waterways to travel much easier with large

883
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: amounts of goods things like that. And from that's when

884
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: these big cities, you know, erupted, and that probably had

885
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: a lot to do with the introduction from of maize

886
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: from Central America. Now, corn's got calories. We all know

887
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: that now, uh, and so we try to stay away

888
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: from too much of it. But back then that was

889
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: a big deal. Calories are a big deal. And so

890
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: when they started getting these extra calories, they didn't have

891
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: to try so hard for food anymore. They could plan

892
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: it and harvest it. And so they started building these mounds,

893
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,479
Speaker 1: one bucket of dirt at a time, and they built

894
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: these huge cities. One of the things we don't know

895
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: is why did these cities fall apart? What the social

896
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: structure fell apart? And by the time Europeans got here,

897
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: a lot of these cities had been abandoned for a

898
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: long time, so they were gone a long time. Did

899
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: they build the mounds to keep out of the floods?

900
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: Probably not. They probably had a hierarchical structure to their societies,

901
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: like having a big mansion on the hill, you bet,

902
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: and and the and the guy that was running everything

903
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: or the girl I guess was living on top of that. Yeah,

904
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: it was. It was so when Europeans got here, they

905
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: found remnants of these cities just like today. You bet, yeah,

906
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: for the most part. Uh. You know, there are a

907
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 1: lot of accounts of DeSoto coming across tribes in eastern

908
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: Arkansas that are felt to be Quapaw uh or no

909
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: Dina maybe tribes, um, but but they were kind of

910
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: they were a little bit scattered by the end. They

911
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: weren't living in these hues, so that there was a

912
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: stronger population of people pre European settlement. Yes, I mean, like, yeah,

913
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: I guess the idea, what I would think is that

914
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: the Native American cultures were at their peak and then

915
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: Europeans showed up and broke it all up. But that's

916
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: not necessarily it's not necessarily true at all. And in

917
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: my mind, my my personal way of thinking about this

918
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: is that by the time Europeans got here, Native Americans

919
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: were almost in this post apocalyptic stage. Something happened, and

920
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: they really don't know what happened in a lot of

921
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: these large cities in places that existed, They really don't

922
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: know if it had to do with disease or warfare

923
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: or a drought. Is that across the country. Um, I

924
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 1: know you're talking about these Arkansas sites in the delta

925
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: of our bet you bet you know you could get

926
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: out into in a masa their day, uh and and

927
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: see the Anasazi there there entire city that were carved

928
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: into the walls of rocks. And these people just up

929
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: and disappeared just in a very short period of time.

930
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: There really nobody knows why. You know, it's a lot

931
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: of these, but I think they're trying to get enough

932
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 1: information together where they can kind of put the puzzle together. Now.

933
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: So that's that's eye opening to me. I I didn't

934
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: realize that. So now we did. We don't get me wrong.

935
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: We did some damage too, I tell you that. But

936
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: but you know it was it was the last nail

937
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: on the coffin, I think, you know. And well, hey,

938
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: that that really helps me. That that breaks down all

939
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: these periods in a pretty simple way. Um, I want

940
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: to go back to the to the stone projectile point.

941
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: So there's all these there's lots of different things that

942
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: you could find out here, you know, these axe heads

943
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: or grinding stones. I mean there's they left. They used

944
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: stone a lot, but they used to projectile stone point. Okay,

945
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: we said at in the the closes period, they were

946
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: just hand thrown spears. Then when we got into the

947
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: Archaic period, they started using the addleaddle, which if you

948
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: don't know what add ale, let's go look it up. Well,

949
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: it's just a it helps you throw a spear like

950
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: twice as fast a t L A t L. Just

951
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: google that and you get a visual of it. When

952
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: did when did they get bow and arrows? Bow and

953
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: arrows were very late development, probably not until the Woodland

954
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: at least, and maybe the Mississippi in the adds. So

955
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: for five thousand years they were using an Did the

956
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: bow cancel out the adladdle? No? Um? When Europeans got here,

957
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: there were still groups of people in this country that

958
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: we're using those. Uh it was so the bow and

959
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: arrow had not completely replaced it um at all, you know, Okay,

960
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: but the adeladdle would have been better for killing big

961
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: stuff though probably so because it's a it's it's I mean,

962
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 1: you're you're chucking a much bigger you're chucking a spear.

963
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: It's kind of like using a thirty yacht six for

964
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: an elk and you know, using a two seventy for

965
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: a white tail dear, I mean, pick your pick your

966
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: weapon for what you're you know, know core, you know

967
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: what's going to break it down. Where did the archery

968
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: technology come from? That's a good question. Um did it

969
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: start up everywhere all over the planet at the same

970
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: time it had it? It did develop all over the

971
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: world and within a relatively short time span. Is that

972
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: now you said convergent you talked about like, yeah, that's

973
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: conversion evolution. Was that technology? That technology would have had

974
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: to have been connected you think it would, but it

975
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: had it started happening here at the same time that

976
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: started happening. Where else? Did they have bows? Oh, they

977
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: have bows and arrows in Africa, the Aborigines in Australia, Um,

978
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, over in in Asia. All of these different

979
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: aboriginals were using this technology at about the same time period.

980
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: Nobody really knows how that happened. I mean, that's that's crazy.

981
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: Because there was no email, there's no Internet. It would

982
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: have had to have been human to human if if

983
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 1: the technology was shared, would had to have been human

984
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: to human contact aliens. I don't know. It means that

985
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: somebody would have had to have gotten from North America

986
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: to Europe perfect. I mean, it's that really is such

987
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: a mystery, or or maybe just in the progression. Like

988
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: if you think of this is like a board game,

989
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: and the board game is is that you're this human

990
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: it's dropped onto this planet. You gotta make a living

991
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: and you start napping stones together. Maybe there's some connection

992
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: and progression there is of just what you would do.

993
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean is that do people say that? And and

994
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: that makes makes sense? So in theory you could like

995
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: they could discover the same technology at the same time

996
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: as here disconnected just because of the way they were

997
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 1: living their life. Okay. You know if if two different

998
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: cultures on the other side of the world, you know,

999
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: developed a wheel at the same point, at some point

1000
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna decide they're gonna hook two up together, so

1001
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: they both invented an axl, you know, it's the same

1002
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: type of thing. Yeah, I think it is a natural progression.

1003
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: And it's also you know, necessity is the mother of invention.

1004
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: As the game got smaller and we pretty much eradicated

1005
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the larger species here, there was a

1006
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: need to shoot uh smaller quarries also, which bow would

1007
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: have been good, right right right? And you know a

1008
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: lot of people call the types of arrows that that

1009
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: Mississippi and period people use bird points. And then you know,

1010
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,439
Speaker 1: there a lot of a lot of things going around

1011
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: people saying that they use them to shoot birds. Well

1012
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: that's not true. They just I don't know why they

1013
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: call them that, but they do. We call them arrow

1014
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: points because it was a true arrow point. They were

1015
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: shot on the bow and arrow. Um. Now the bigger

1016
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: so this would be a question I would have I

1017
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: have found small points that are like an inch long

1018
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: an inch wide, let's just say an inch by an

1019
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: inch Certainly that would have been connected to an arrow

1020
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: shaft possibly, but that's also large enough to be connected

1021
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: to a you know, a half inch wide shaft on

1022
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: a on a dards. So yeah, only the smallest ones

1023
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: were probably uses true error points, but there's no way

1024
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: to know for sure. You know, um, there are there

1025
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: are historical documentation of of the type some of the

1026
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: types of arrow points that we know of today that

1027
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: we're being used on arrows when people got here, and

1028
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: so we know some of those point types were definitely

1029
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: being used on arrows. Yeah, okay, so we're talking about

1030
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: stone projectile points. You said that there was a reason

1031
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,439
Speaker 1: that they would have liked like this fluted Dalton point,

1032
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: and if if you're in front of a computer and

1033
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: listen to this. Just type in Dalton point. You can understand.

1034
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: We can describe it, but it's almost too hard to

1035
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 1: describe verbally to get a good picture. But what I want,

1036
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: what I want to step into now is the different

1037
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: types of points and get to this calf creek point. Okay,

1038
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: but start with the start with the Dolts or the Clovis.

1039
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: Start with the Clovis. And why So it's a real

1040
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: specific technology. But why and and and our people understand

1041
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: that because we're bow hunters, and I mean we talked

1042
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: about broadheads all the time and different types of animals.

1043
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: I've been bo hunting for about twenty years twenty five

1044
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: years now, and I've seen the technology and broadheads changed

1045
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: dramatically in a very short period of time. You know,

1046
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: with with use, you understand what works and what doesn't,

1047
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: what may be better. And there's a lot of different

1048
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: people out there experimenting to see what works better now. Um,

1049
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: But but they were doing the same thing. You know,

1050
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: they got back from a hunt, sat down and said, hey,

1051
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: what went wrong? And so somebody, somebody figured out a

1052
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: way to do something a little bit different in these

1053
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: clothes people. They were fluting their points. They were basically

1054
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: thinning the point at the base of the airhead the

1055
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: project where it was hafted onto the shaft of the

1056
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: hafting element. And and most people believe that was to

1057
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: thin it out to make it where it was, you know,

1058
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of lower lower the profile of the area of

1059
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: that shaft directly attached to the to the airhead's better penetration. Probably,

1060
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that okay, So so that the because

1061
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: they would have her taking a stick split it shoved

1062
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: this air this stone point down in there. Yes, And

1063
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: so if the air head at the base of it

1064
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: was super thick, then it would make that would fold

1065
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: out even further if it was thinner, So it was

1066
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: an issue of penetration. Then that's what most people believe

1067
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: and have believe for all the time. I've read a

1068
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: study that was done here fairly recently that showed that

1069
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: the thinning they there. They believed that the thinning that

1070
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: the fluting was done because it lessened the likelihood that

1071
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: the point would break when it did penetrate an animal.

1072
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: There's some type of a shock absorbing property to thinning

1073
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: that point, like you know, that's that's still exactly. That's

1074
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: my point that those people weren't thinking, how can I

1075
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: make this, how can I design this? They didn't have

1076
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: a wind tunnel or any way of testing this theory

1077
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: that I don't believe that. I really don't. I think

1078
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: they were trying to thin it down. Maybe maybe it's true,

1079
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: but that's not why they did right. Right, Maybe that happened,

1080
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: maybe that it did decrease the breakage percentage, whatever, but

1081
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 1: I don't think that's why they were doing it though. Yeah,

1082
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: so they you know, they progressed into Dalton points. Uh,

1083
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: things changed a little bit. Dalton points transitioned into probably

1084
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: twenty or twenty five different points. Did they did they

1085
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: necessarily get better over time? Well, it depends on how

1086
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: you define better. Better means more if if better is

1087
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: more suited for your environment? Yes, by definition, because Dalton

1088
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: points were not what was needed during the woodland period,

1089
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: and so the points that were made during the woodland

1090
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: met their needs better than Dalton points would have. So

1091
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: you can only you can only surmise that the best

1092
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: point to existed with the technology. I guess the technology

1093
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: never went backwards, No, and theyone never really did. Every

1094
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: everything changed, Um, so you get into the Archaic period,

1095
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: and you've got this early Middle and laid Archaic, And

1096
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about calf Creek points a little bit. Uh.

1097
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: They are that they're beautiful. They're very wide and can

1098
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: be long, but they're generally fairly short. And and they

1099
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,439
Speaker 1: have notching deep notching that can be sometimes a half

1100
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: an inch or an inch deep that goes into the

1101
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: base of the arahead. They're hard to describe um, but

1102
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: they're they're very unique. And and there are similar point

1103
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: types called Andus and Bell points that are found more

1104
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: down into Texas, but it's generally believed they're the same

1105
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: era ahead and they're the same projectile point um. But

1106
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: they're they're gorgeous points. They're unique. There's nothing like them

1107
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: anywhere else in North America. And then they're from right

1108
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: here they are. They start up central in the we're

1109
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: kind of in the east central ozark Yeah, I would say.

1110
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: And and you know these points can be found up

1111
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: into central Missouri, down into north central and central Arkansas,

1112
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: over into northern Texas, northern Louisiana over and it comes

1113
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: as much of Kansas and Oklahoma. Also. These people we

1114
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: know we're hunting bison they were hunting bison with these,

1115
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: and for a long time it was believed that this

1116
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: was a knife type. It was not a projectile point,

1117
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: and that's been disproven. And if you have internet access,

1118
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: you need to look this up. There was a calf

1119
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: Creek point that was found embedded in a bison skull,

1120
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: and and studies were done on it and it was authenticated.

1121
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: There's always a question when you find something like that,

1122
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: did somebody shoved that in there? But that it's been

1123
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: well studied and it's been proven to be the real deal.

1124
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: So they were, they were chunking these things at bison

1125
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: and you met probably the most likely when when were

1126
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: these what period time period with the calf Creek of

1127
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: the Middle and late Archadic, so they would have been

1128
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: using that point. And so yeah, so this calf Creek

1129
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: technology is like way different. It would have u I

1130
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: think in modern terms, Adam, we would have called this

1131
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: almost like a barbed broadhead. A barbed broadhead by definition,

1132
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: means that the the blade of the point extends below

1133
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: the point where the arrow touches the broadhead, right. I mean,

1134
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: there's regulations about it, like in Alaska and Idaho, you

1135
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: can't use the barb broadhead. Yeah, because the it's like

1136
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: where it goes down, so like on these calf creek points,

1137
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: the the halft's it seems like that with the blades

1138
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: have extended below where the halft went up, they most

1139
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: definitely would have sometimes even an inch. This is totally

1140
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: Barba Alaska. Well they they what that did is it

1141
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: is it increased the cutting edge on it and if

1142
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: they can shove that thing into into there. You know,

1143
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: lethality is not necessarily always about penetration. Uh. It had

1144
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: a lot of times it has to do with how

1145
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: much stuff can you cut? These are wide right, and

1146
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: I've shot deer with a bow that didn't run nearly

1147
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: as far as a deer. And I've shot with a

1148
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: thirty ot six you know that went out the outside

1149
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: of the because you shoot, you shoot an arrow in

1150
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,919
Speaker 1: there and it's cutting stuff. That thing bleeds out real quick.

1151
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: A lot of times when it drops real quick if

1152
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: you can hit the a order or something like that.

1153
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: And so they were onto something, you know they were.

1154
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,919
Speaker 1: These aren't real sharp points. Well when I say sharp,

1155
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean like some of these, like the the closest

1156
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: points are like these long. They don't have an acute

1157
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: angle on the tip of it. I think it's kind

1158
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: of more around and around. Yeah, and and by the

1159
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: location where this you know, calf Creek Point was found.

1160
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: In this bison skull um, it looks like it was

1161
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: trying to be and they were trying to shoot it

1162
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: in the back of the neck or maybe up in

1163
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: the neck area. I think they were onto Something's my

1164
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: my opinion. I think they were trying to cut it,

1165
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, they were like this is where you

1166
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: want to hit one. They would have been just like,

1167
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: that's like, this is where you shoot a deer. Why

1168
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: would you want to shoot a bison through the thickest

1169
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: part of the body, you know, where it's got a

1170
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: big hump full of fat, you know, when you've got

1171
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: to expose neck veins, you know, jug your veins, carotto arteries,

1172
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: things like that. You know. So that's my opinion for it,

1173
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: and just for just to say it, there would have

1174
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: totally been bison here. I mean, even even in the

1175
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: eight teen hundreds that were bison in Arkansas, you've been

1176
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 1: elk and mountain lions and tons of crazy stuff. And

1177
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: I've read some really unbelievable numbers on how many bison

1178
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: at one time rome the United States. Uh, it was

1179
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: in the tens of millions. I mean maybe as many

1180
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: as eighty or ninety or a hundred million bison in

1181
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: North America. That's a lot. You know. Kind of debunked

1182
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: that greenhouse gas thing too from cows too, because there

1183
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: were lots of yeah, putting out some greenhouse gas. So

1184
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: the Calf Creek though, uh, now wise Calf Creek, If

1185
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: there's Calf Creek other places, why do we know that

1186
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: it started here? Or is this like the epicenter of it?

1187
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: Really is the first place that these were described or

1188
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: found and described was it was in a cave up

1189
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: in Searcy County, Arkansas called Calf Creek Cave. It's also

1190
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: called Snowball Cave. It's it's actually has another name too,

1191
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: I've heard too. But but Don Dickinson and archaeologist, did

1192
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: a lot of excavation up in hal Creek Cave and

1193
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: and found these there. Um and so he named the

1194
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: point type after Calf Creek. Uh. But this this and

1195
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: they found the technology and other places they did. Yeah,

1196
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: and so this area really if you were going to

1197
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: put a pin in the middle of the distribution, it

1198
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,919
Speaker 1: would probably be somewhere around Arkansas. I would say, yeah,

1199
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 1: if I can find one of those of my friends,

1200
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure could, Yeah can and and and I've we've

1201
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: found a piece of one here at the Gray Side

1202
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: in in Iszard County. Yeah. Yeah, so they're here, you know,

1203
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: And and and they hunted primarily bison, you know, that's

1204
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: what they were doing. They were still that was their

1205
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: economy was bison hunting, you know. And that would have

1206
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: been in the period right right, probably middle and late Arcaic. Yeah,

1207
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: um man, that clarifies a lot. That is awesome and perfect.

1208
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: Anybody that that there is that's listening, you ought to

1209
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: look up a calf creek projectif point, just to get

1210
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: a visual what that looks like. They're just absolutely you've

1211
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: got just five or six here, yea in your collection

1212
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: or maybe more than that. Yeah, and they're they're one

1213
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: of my favorites there. You know, anybody's got a nice

1214
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: calf creek and they're they're actually one of the more

1215
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 1: valuable point types because they're so rare. Those ears that

1216
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: stick down so far they break. Uh, they're they're most

1217
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: often found broken, you know, how far if you if

1218
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: you have an intact calf creek point. You have a

1219
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: nice point. Yeah, that's something. Yeah, um man, that answers

1220
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: a whole lot of questions that I had. Is there? Well,

1221
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: let me transition into another another section. What about people

1222
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: finding points? How do you find stone points? There are

1223
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways to do that. Um I

1224
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: think a lot of people just walk creeks for some reason.

1225
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: You know, the sites that contain these points were on water.

1226
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: They were on creeks and floods come through and they

1227
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: rode out a bank and they wash into the creek

1228
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: and you and you find them and they just become

1229
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: a part of the creek system. They're just in gravel bars,

1230
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: just rolling along. Would you say, this is the thought

1231
01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: that I've had I found a few points in creeks,

1232
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: is that you find like gravel distributes based upon size,

1233
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: and creeks is based upon water. For like, you know,

1234
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: there's areas of a gravel bar, whether it's the big rocks,

1235
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 1: small rocks, fine rocks. So you look in the areas

1236
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: where there's the size rocks that would be the size

1237
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: of a projectile point. Is that right? Exactly right? Because

1238
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: they that that creek starts to filter out stuff based

1239
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: inside it sure does. It's just like it's just like

1240
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: panting for gold. You start filtering out bigger stuff and

1241
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: then smaller and smaller, and eventually you work it down

1242
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: to you've got a layer of stuff and then it's

1243
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: got the gold dust. And same thing with air heads,

1244
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: once you figure out where you're looking. I've got a

1245
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: little nooking down here in my creek that I've been

1246
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: wanting to look at. It makes a hard, sharp right

1247
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: hand turn at the bottom of it. It's a lot

1248
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: deeper there than it is just upstream. And all these

1249
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: rocks are are are layering down in the bottom of

1250
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: this as they fall out of the current. And so

1251
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna get down there one of these days with

1252
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: a shovel and just and just take shovels full of

1253
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: that and and run it through the screen and see

1254
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: what you know. You know, it's it's trial and air.

1255
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: It's it's it's neat. So walk on creeks. That's one

1256
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: way to do it, Okay, what else? Um Walking fields

1257
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: that have been plowed for agriculture is another way to

1258
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: do it too. That's probably the biggest, biggest it has

1259
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: been for the last hundred and fifty years. But that's

1260
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: changing a lot because they've gone to a lot of

1261
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: no till technology now, especially up in the in the

1262
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: Midwestern States. They're they're trying to conserve that layer of

1263
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: good dirt and so they're they're they're drilling stuff in now,

1264
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: a lot less of it now. But this is this

1265
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: is how a lot of this stuff got found. You know,

1266
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: old collection points that they would plow a field with mules.

1267
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: And I've heard stories here in my yard where we

1268
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: find these points that they were actually plowing this field

1269
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: with mules and they would pick up these earrawheads and

1270
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: sometimes they were pretty good size and very sharp. They

1271
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 1: would put them in buckets and go dump them out

1272
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: somewhere to keep the mules from cutting their feet, you know.

1273
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,839
Speaker 1: And they didn't even regard these things as being anything

1274
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: culturally important or valuable or anything. They were a pain

1275
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: in their rear. You know. It's like finding a knock

1276
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: blade out in your yard and you throw it to

1277
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: the edge, you know, cut something get out of It's incredible. Yeah, yeah,

1278
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that. You know, here's a question about plowing.

1279
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: How deep are these are? Because I've I've heard a

1280
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 1: friend of mine, a friend of ours over here, Paul Lee.

1281
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: There they do some digging on private land. You can't

1282
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: dig on public land. I gotta have you gotta have big, big, big, big,

1283
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 1: big no notes. So that's But if you have private

1284
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: land and you have perbition a chair land, you can

1285
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 1: dig some of these limestone bluffs and stuff. And they're

1286
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: finding points like way deep in the ground. That doesn't

1287
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: make any sense to me. Yeah, it depends, um. You know,

1288
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: older stuff is deeper. That's the general coming. Sediment is

1289
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: just built up, and it kind of depends on how

1290
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:47,599
Speaker 1: fast the sentiment's building up. If you've got a creek

1291
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: that ever gets under the floodplain, you know of of

1292
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: a creek and it this overhangs getting flooded and silt

1293
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: and sands washing in there, it could be it could

1294
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 1: be stuff buried and right, it could be ten fifteen

1295
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: feet deep, but it may just be in is. You

1296
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: just don't know. Um. And so if you're looking for

1297
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 1: for place for places to hunt, you go into a cave,

1298
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: they say, And I've never dug a cave. I haven't

1299
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: had that experience yet. But you go back to the

1300
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: back of the cave and dig straight down and you

1301
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: define how deep the artifacts are, you know, just dig

1302
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: dig it straight down. So but I haven't had the

1303
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:25,839
Speaker 1: chance to do that yet. Well and and yeah, hopefully

1304
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: he'll hear this, Yeah, because my question was about like

1305
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: in your plowed field, like are you I mean there's

1306
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 1: a point where there just isn't anything below that it stop?

1307
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: Where is that? Uh? Different for everywhere it is, And

1308
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 1: it's different even in this field here. Uh, some places

1309
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: we have found stuff down that it's probably two feet deep.

1310
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: In some places it's very shallow before you hit that

1311
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: clay layer that doesn't have anything in it. Kind of

1312
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: depends on the topography and what's erode it off, what's

1313
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 1: washed off, and what hasn't. So it could be on

1314
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 1: the surface it could be two three ft deep, because

1315
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: it just depends, you know, because these people have been

1316
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:05,719
Speaker 1: here for fifteen thousand years, thirteen thousand years, just sentiment changes,

1317
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: soiled builds soil. You know. One of the interesting things

1318
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 1: about this field here that I have at my house

1319
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: where we where we find points that ezer Kenny is

1320
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 1: not exactly well known for its high quality soil. You know.

1321
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: Nowhere in those we've got a few rocks here, but

1322
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: this particular field has actually got really good soil and

1323
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: uh in. My opinion is is that it probably is

1324
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: an accumulated bio layer of occupation. Over a long period

1325
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: of time, these people were, you know, eating, and they

1326
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: had refuse and things like that, and it just builds

1327
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: up a good organic layer of dirt in it. It's

1328
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: just kind of strange walking creeks, plowing fields. We just

1329
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: talked about digging in overhangs, which is something that is

1330
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: common in the Ozarks. Only on private land where you

1331
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: have permission. They'll throw you in jail. In public land,

1332
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 1: that's a big deal. So what what other ways do

1333
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: you find their flea markets? Let somebody else find out. No, yeah,

1334
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,799
Speaker 1: you know, everybody in this county knows that I'm an

1335
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: airhead collector. So I find I have a lot of

1336
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: people come to me and you know, want me to

1337
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: look at their stuff. And so sometimes you find them

1338
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 1: without having to set foot out of your house. But

1339
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 1: but going back to finding them other ways you can

1340
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,879
Speaker 1: find them, you know, Liam you have any other ideas

1341
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: how you find them, it's what about like location? Because

1342
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm actually formulating an article that I'm going

1343
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: to write about how to find stone projectile points. So

1344
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: I'm I'm take usurping resource from you to write my article. Uh,

1345
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: what about you told me that this like where you live.

1346
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: Describe to me why this is a good site because

1347
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: right here just a random piece of property. You bought

1348
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 1: them quote unquote random to build your house here, and

1349
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 1: you found, i mean hundreds of stone projectile points and flakes,

1350
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 1: and well, what makes this good? Like if somebody were

1351
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: go out and find something like this on their own.

1352
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: My dad always told me good property is good property.

1353
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: And if it's good property now, it a good property

1354
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,640
Speaker 1: ten thousand years ago. It's that it's got water on it.

1355
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: And you know you've got some springs, You've got water,

1356
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: water holes, game, water makes things grow and it's flat,

1357
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: right yeah, And so you know you're looking for for

1358
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: places that have springs coming out of nowhere, good cold

1359
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: water that's running water. You know, those people knew that

1360
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: drinking stagnant water was probably not very good for you,

1361
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 1: and sure did, they sure did, And so they stay

1362
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: pretty close to water. And uh, and they lived close

1363
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: to water, and where they lived is where they drop things.

1364
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: And so that's probably the number one. Now, the Paleo

1365
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: people were maybe a little bit different. If you're looking

1366
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: for for Clovis points or things like that, you're probably

1367
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: gonna be looking for um an area where they may

1368
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: have been trying to catch mammoth or masted on crossing

1369
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: a creek. In a really hilly area like this, there

1370
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: tend to be lower areas where animals still to this

1371
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: day cross the creek more frequently than they do. Then

1372
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, they're not gonna go from one bluff over

1373
01:14:57,439 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: to the other bluff. They're gonna go look for a

1374
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: low spot, and that's where they'd ambush these things where

1375
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: they can't get away. You know, they get them down

1376
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 1: in a lower area like that, and in water, you know,

1377
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: five feet of water is gonna make a mask of

1378
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: dawn a heck of a lot less tenacious than if

1379
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 1: he's up on his you know, getting more is weak.

1380
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: So that's that's where they find a lot of these

1381
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 1: is is lower areas creek cross and that's paleo. But

1382
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: after that you're looking for springs. You're looking for water

1383
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: more than anything. You know, this is just a the

1384
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: way that I've found heads is uh, you've got to

1385
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: have bare dirt. You're not gonna find an air head

1386
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: underneath a layer of thick leaves. Out in the woods,

1387
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: You're not gonna find an air head under a layer

1388
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:40,639
Speaker 1: of thick grass. And so like the places I deer hunt,

1389
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: the places I coon hunt. Last night I went coon hunt.

1390
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,560
Speaker 1: I was looking for air heads the whole time on

1391
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: cattle trails. And then like and and just wherever there's

1392
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: bared dirt, you have the potential to find an airhead.

1393
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: And as the as the soil washes away in these

1394
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: places where there's exposed dirt because of livestock or because

1395
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: up whatever it could be where they I mean, the

1396
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: first airhead I found on my property actually wasn't because

1397
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: of my mules. It was because I was pushing some

1398
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: brush with my tractor and skinned up the ground. And

1399
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:16,679
Speaker 1: like three weeks later after it rained and it washed

1400
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: the dirt, the surface of the dirt off I found ahead.

1401
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: So basically, just anywhere there's an exposed bank, creek bank,

1402
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: I've heard of people finding them on cut banks of

1403
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: a creek, you know, like the outside bend of a

1404
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: creek that where it's continually cutting. That happens a lot.

1405
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 1: You'll you'll come across a cut bank like that and

1406
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: you'll see some flint or maybe some even some muscle shells,

1407
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 1: like discarded muscle shells or something like that that showed

1408
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: a habitation area, and then you know it's on you

1409
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: know that's where it is. Well, And that's another good point.

1410
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: And I'm formulating my article as we speak. Where like

1411
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: on my property, I find that we could go out

1412
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: there right now, and I guarantee we could find flint flakes.

1413
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: I mean every time I walk out there and find

1414
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: flint flakes and there's no flint in in the area

1415
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: that I'm at. Mean, like in northwest Arkansas, right where

1416
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm at, we've got sandstone and limestone. I mean that

1417
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: is right for what I know of there, that's all

1418
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 1: we have. They were getting their church and flint and

1419
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: stone materials from somewhere else, maybe not very far away.

1420
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 1: There's some places not very far away where they're getting it.

1421
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: But so when I see like pink rocks and white

1422
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 1: rocks and pick it up and it's that smooth, flinty church,

1423
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean that is the evidence of percussion napping, Am

1424
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: I right? So where you find if you can find

1425
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: flint flakes, then you know that you're you're you're in

1426
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: the Ballpark. And I learned this just because I watched

1427
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: a guy nap samara heads, is that there's a tremendous

1428
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: amount of refuse there is. I mean, like, so if

1429
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: you have one air to make one arahead, you would

1430
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: have a See. I think that's something that I wouldn't

1431
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: have known unless I had seen somebody do it. So

1432
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: these little flakes that you find indicate that they of

1433
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 1: Americans were here. They were working on stone tools, and

1434
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: so there's surely intact stone tools somewhere. They're there. And um,

1435
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: you know this this flint in church that you're talking about,

1436
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: you're right there. The ose aren't mountains just don't have

1437
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: um certain types of rocks that they have in southern

1438
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 1: Arkansas or out of Yellowstone Park. We we have sedimentary

1439
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: rock here. It's sandstone, it's limestone. It's not adequate for

1440
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: really any kind of tool that would be at rock

1441
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 1: would be That's exactly right. It's a sedimentary rock and

1442
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: it just gets compressed over time, and certain nodules of

1443
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 1: that would form within these layers of limestone and sandstone

1444
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: in the bluffs, and so that the white and metamorphic

1445
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 1: and probably so yes compressed by heat. You bet depressed

1446
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,560
Speaker 1: by heat and just sheer weight of limestone. But but

1447
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: these you know, in the White River, the river has

1448
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: been cutting through these limestone bluffs for so long it

1449
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: exposes a lot of these nodules. They fall out and no,

1450
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: just fall out and roll around in the river for

1451
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,799
Speaker 1: a long time. They get a river. It's a cortex.

1452
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: It's called a brownish color on the outside of the rock.

1453
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: But if you take that brock and you break it open,

1454
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:11,720
Speaker 1: you don't know what you're gonna find. It may be

1455
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: black picking church, the most beautiful colored chirt you've ever seen.

1456
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: It may be some blue and white modeled looking pinter's shirt.

1457
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: And and some of these are really good at making

1458
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: by faces with because they retain a really sharp edge.

1459
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 1: Tell me what a byfaces before? Yeah, byface is kind

1460
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 1: of a generic term for any uh arrowhead projectile point

1461
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 1: double side, two sides, yet it's generally both sides of

1462
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: it are napped, and so they're they're working on one

1463
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: side and turning it over and making it too faced.

1464
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: Um so yep, by face reduction technology and and and

1465
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 1: that's what that's what you make are heads with. And

1466
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: and you know they had to find that kind of rock,

1467
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 1: and when they find a good source of it, they

1468
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 1: would go back to that source over and over and

1469
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 1: over again. And there are known quarry sites in you know,

1470
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: this area and all over the country, and they would

1471
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: have This was news to me just since in the

1472
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 1: last few years. But they wouldn't so if they were,

1473
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,839
Speaker 1: if they were trading and getting this stuff from other places,

1474
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: they wouldn't carry a twenty five pounds stone back fifty

1475
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 1: miles to wherever they were going to nap it. But

1476
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: they would make what do you call it? What they

1477
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,600
Speaker 1: would do, they would make up. What they would do

1478
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 1: is they take that rock and they knocked pieces out

1479
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: of it, and they probably would knock it down into

1480
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 1: a manageable, maybe hand sized piece of flint or church

1481
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 1: that they could put maybe put in a bag of

1482
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: some type and carry it with them. They would call

1483
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 1: that a quarry blank. It's a blank that they had

1484
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 1: quarried out of somewhere. And then when they so people

1485
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 1: find those a lot. I've got a nice blank. I

1486
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:43,560
Speaker 1: feel like it's probably a blank. It's it's about that

1487
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 1: big big rounds of baseball, Yeah, about half an inch thick,

1488
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 1: fairly developed but still pretty rough. So it was probably

1489
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: a blank that somebody just lost it, yea. And and

1490
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: a lot of times they would take those blanks and

1491
01:20:57,960 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 1: they would try to work it down into a nice

1492
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 1: point of some type. And there may have been what

1493
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 1: they call a stack on there. There may have been

1494
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 1: a piece of rock inside that that they just couldn't

1495
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 1: get it knocked off their right and they finally just

1496
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 1: got mad and threw it down and said I'm move

1497
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: along to a different piece. So we find a lot

1498
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 1: of quarry blanks out here in in in my field too.

1499
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: And and sometimes they don't know why they lost it.

1500
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: Sometimes you can tell they were having a hard time

1501
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: piece and working at particular piece got done with it. Yeah,

1502
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, that's the interesting thing to think about, is

1503
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: why they all these how all these points got here.

1504
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, some would have been broken while they were

1505
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: working on them. Someonel have been broken when they shot

1506
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: at something somewhere. Full pieces that just got lost somewhere. Yeah,

1507
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess some we're most most assuredly

1508
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 1: buried with people, you know. Yeah, you said they used

1509
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: to do that. You bet they did. You know. Well, man,

1510
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: this has been uh fascinating. Thank you so much for

1511
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: let me come out. I mean, I just met you today.

1512
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 1: We we talked, we spoke on the phone this last week. Uh,

1513
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:02,760
Speaker 1: we had to come over here to buy a squirrel dog,

1514
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:06,439
Speaker 1: which is high priority stuff for us. Yeah, we had

1515
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,600
Speaker 1: to come over in this part of the world. And man,

1516
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we connected. You did exactly what I

1517
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I mean, if no one listens to

1518
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 1: this but me, I'll be happy, But uh, they will.

1519
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 1: This is this is really interesting stuff. And I think

1520
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,839
Speaker 1: somebody could listen to this and have a really good picture.

1521
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: I know I have a much better picture of of

1522
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 1: of what was happening in the time periods and and

1523
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 1: the different even the dispersal of humans, the dispersal of technology.

1524
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 1: So anyway, well, thank you. I'm glad you came out.

1525
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: And it's it's always exciting to me to to to

1526
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: to see anybody that's interested in this. And you know,

1527
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: when you're passionate about something and you really like something,

1528
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: you you can't wait to talk about it with somebody.

1529
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you came up today. And and maybe

1530
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: you can get your boys into this too, and yeah,

1531
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 1: you know, on a on a personal note, with this,

1532
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: this this hunting that we do has really brought my

1533
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 1: family together. It's getting that my is off their phones. Uh,

1534
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 1: it's getting them outside. We're seeing nature, we're walking, we're talking,

1535
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: We're interacting with each other. We're talking to each other.

1536
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: You know, this is a good thing. It's it's a

1537
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 1: good clean fund if you're doing it the right way

1538
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: and and really you know, you're you're learning a lot.

1539
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 1: It's a good thing. Yes, it really is. I mean

1540
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: we my boys have been super intrigued by finding these

1541
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 1: points in our front yard. Yeah, I mean, it just

1542
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,719
Speaker 1: unlocks this. It's just this mystery, you know, these humans

1543
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: that lived here before us, that we're hunting critters on

1544
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 1: our land and camping the Uh you know, well it

1545
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: makes you really think is that our land at all?

1546
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: It's their land? Maybe. Yeah, we're just on it now,

1547
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 1: just just temporarily. Yeah, staying a r right now. And

1548
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you up. I hope to have

1549
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 1: you back at here sometimes if you want to come back,

1550
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 1: we'll find some marriage together. That sounds awesome. And hey,

1551
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: you just got me started. I mean, I'm we may

1552
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: do a follow up podcast one of these days with

1553
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: some more questions or hopefully get some skills today too,

1554
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 1: maybe show some people. So yes, I will. Well, so

1555
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: we'll put some we'll put some stills on our on

1556
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 1: our website. So on our website, we we'll have the

1557
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 1: podcast posted and and I will put some still photos

1558
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: of some of these points here in your library. Good

1559
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 1: doing there, for sure, good do. But hey, so this

1560
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 1: is the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. So we have a

1561
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 1: closing thing that I always say so, and it's keep

1562
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 1: the wild places wild, because that's where the bears live,

1563
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 1: and that's where the Native Americans lived and the shot

1564
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:34,600
Speaker 1: bears and ston't project off points. Yeah, thank you, thank you,