Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I'd come
Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
Speaker 1: And who says?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
Speaker 1: to question everything. Before we begin today's episode, I want
Speaker 1: to share why we're returning to this conversation. Sydney Towell
Speaker 1: died on August fifth, twenty twenty six, at twenty six
Speaker 1: years old. Now we recorded this episode originally eight months
Speaker 1: before she passed away, and when Sid walked into the
Speaker 1: New York studio last year for her first podcast conversation,
Speaker 1: she had an effortless, earthy beauty. Around her neck was
Speaker 1: a shark tooth on a cord. It was an ode
Speaker 1: to her Florida roots. She told me that she felt
Speaker 1: most at peace by the ocean. She loved to run,
Speaker 1: to move, to practice yoga, and she always used the
Speaker 1: yellow heart emoji, the color of sunshine. Whenever I thought
Speaker 1: of Sydney. Over the last year, I thought of the
Speaker 1: words often associated with namaste, the light in me honors
Speaker 1: the light in you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Originally I wanted to speak with Sydney not only because
Speaker 1: she was facing something completely unimaginable, but because she was
Speaker 1: living through it with honesty and humor and grace and
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of courage. And I really wanted her
Speaker 1: story etched in time so that one day.
Speaker 2: When she was.
Speaker 1: When she was on the other side of it, she
Speaker 1: could look back and see what she had survived and
Speaker 1: how fully she had lived while surviving it. As you
Speaker 1: can hear in my voice, I'm so sad for her.
Speaker 1: I'm sad for her family and for all of us
Speaker 1: that she never got that day Sydney was twenty six
Speaker 1: years old. There are no words and no poetry that
Speaker 1: can make that fair. She really deserved decades more and
Speaker 1: the milestones and the adventures, but also the ordinary tuesdays
Speaker 1: and the quiet mornings. She deserved to fall in love
Speaker 1: and have babies and go to music festival and run
Speaker 1: by the beach. In every conversation that we shared before
Speaker 1: the interview and after, I want to tell you about
Speaker 1: something that I was quite in a naw of It
Speaker 1: was the time and the kindness and the love that
Speaker 1: sid gave so freely, especially when her own time felt
Speaker 1: increasingly precious. That is something I will try to carry
Speaker 1: forward in her honor. Sidney Twell left a footprint on
Speaker 1: my heart, and what she gave us will keep moving
Speaker 1: through every person who loved her. There were millions online.
Speaker 1: There's a notion that I've often shared the last few
Speaker 1: years that we die twice, first when the body leaves,
Speaker 1: and again when people stop telling our stories. I don't
Speaker 1: know what else to do to keep her memory alive
Speaker 1: except to share pieces her story. So here it is,
Speaker 1: we are re airing the conversation with sid.
Speaker 2: Here she is so Sydney.
Speaker 1: I first found you on TikTok, I think, like so
Speaker 1: many other people did, and I was immediately drawn to
Speaker 1: you because you are so vibrant and really positive and
Speaker 1: super endearing. And I imagine, even though you have millions
Speaker 1: of followers across platforms, that not everybody knows your story.
Speaker 1: So I want to lay the groundwork for them. You're
Speaker 1: twenty five, but at twenty three, just two years ago,
Speaker 1: you had graduated from Dartmouth and you moved to La.
Speaker 1: You had your yoga certification, and I watched all your videos.
Speaker 1: You were swimming and running and just being really active.
Speaker 1: You built a small but growing following, and then one
Speaker 1: day you went for a run and within twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: your entire life changed. What happened on that run?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was actually back at school at Dartmouth,
Speaker 2: and I was visiting one of my friends for a
Speaker 2: music festival that they have there, and I went for
Speaker 2: a run and right when I finished, I looked down
Speaker 2: and I noticed that I had a lump protruding from
Speaker 2: the right side of my abdomen, and I was kind
Speaker 2: of like, what the heck is that? And I immediately
Speaker 2: posted on Snapchat because we still use snapshat at the time,
Speaker 2: and I was like, what is this and people were like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a hernia. I looked it up. The symptoms said hernia.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was an exercise induced hernia and
Speaker 2: that was not the case. But that's also what the
Speaker 2: initial urgent care doctor said as well. Oh wow, yeah,
Speaker 2: so nobody thought that it was cancer at first. Obviously
Speaker 2: your first instinct isn't this twenty five year old probably
Speaker 2: has this rare cancer.
Speaker 1: And what happened from there.
Speaker 2: So I went home to LA and I ignored it,
Speaker 2: honestly for a month or two. And I knew when
Speaker 2: I would go for or when I would go for
Speaker 2: like long walks, I would feel this burning sensation. But
Speaker 2: I still ignored it, just because I think I was
Speaker 2: in denial a little bit. And I would even jokingly
Speaker 2: say sometimes like what if I have cancer? And the
Speaker 2: people around me would be like, why would you even
Speaker 2: say that, Like you're so young, you're so healthy. You
Speaker 2: go to run club or you go to surf club,
Speaker 2: Like there's just no way. And then I went to
Speaker 2: the urgent care. He thought it was a hernia, but
Speaker 2: he was like, just in case, i'll send you for
Speaker 2: an ultrasound. And then when I went to the ultrasound,
Speaker 2: it's really weird because they don't say anything to you
Speaker 2: when they're doing it, obviously, like they can't they're not
Speaker 2: the ones reading the stands. So she was very calm,
Speaker 2: she was like, oh, like, have a nice day. And
Speaker 2: it turns out there was an eight or nine centimeter
Speaker 2: solid mass in my.
Speaker 1: Liver, and so you get the diagnosis and it's colangio carcinoma,
Speaker 1: which is a rare cancer. Yes, at twenty three years old.
Speaker 1: Tell me what's going through your mind when you hear
Speaker 1: those words come out of their mouth.
Speaker 2: So I had no idea, and I think most people
Speaker 2: don't know what clandio carcinoma is. I heard carcinoma, and
Speaker 2: I know that's one of the worst forms of cancer,
Speaker 2: like one of the most deadly forms. So I remember
Speaker 2: I went to go pick up the report from the
Speaker 2: MRI place and I opened the report and by myself,
Speaker 2: and right when I open it, I just see the
Speaker 2: words likely carcinoma, multiple enhancing masses. And I immediately just
Speaker 2: dropped to the ground in the parking lot, and I
Speaker 2: was like in shock. I mean, I kind of had
Speaker 2: this gut feeling that it was cancer, but to see
Speaker 2: like multiple tumors increasing in size, I was like, how
Speaker 2: is this possible?
Speaker 1: And to see those words you were alone.
Speaker 2: I was alone again. I had a gut feeling, but
Speaker 2: I was hoping I was wrong. So opening it by
Speaker 2: myself in the parking lot, I was just like, Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, how is this my new reality?
Speaker 1: You know, it was confirmation of a nightmare, right exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you remember of that day? Immediately after?
Speaker 2: So I immediately facetimed my family, and normally they both
Speaker 2: don't pick up my brother and my mom they both
Speaker 2: picked up on like the first ring, so it was
Speaker 2: already a crazy moment, and then I was already crying.
Speaker 2: I was already bawling, and they were like, what's wrong,
Speaker 2: that's wrong, and I was just like, I've cancer, and
Speaker 2: they both started immediately bawling as well. So that was
Speaker 2: a core memory probably that I will never forget, is
Speaker 2: their reaction calling them and seeing their faces when I
Speaker 2: said that, and then also texting all of my friends
Speaker 2: at the same time, saying I have cancer because I
Speaker 2: just didn't know what to do. I think you kind
Speaker 2: of immediately when you get news like that, you reach
Speaker 2: out to everyone you know and you're like, what's going on.
Speaker 2: And obviously all of my friends were like, what are
Speaker 2: you talking about.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you texted all your friends. You're a
Speaker 1: friend girl.
Speaker 2: Yes I am. I love my friends. And one of
Speaker 2: my friends in La I texted him and said I
Speaker 2: have cancer right when it was happening, and he was
Speaker 2: supposed to go to San Diego that day. He immediately
Speaker 2: canceled the trip to go see his friends, and then
Speaker 2: spent the day with me at the beach, just hanging out.
Speaker 2: So I have some really great friends.
Speaker 1: Did you guys talk about it or did that day
Speaker 1: did you just want to enjoy the beach and not
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 2: I think we just didn't talk about it. I think
Speaker 2: I was in so much shock. I don't think there's
Speaker 2: like a way to process that much information in one time, So, yeah,
Speaker 2: we just hung out.
Speaker 1: What were the psychological impacts of the diagnosis in the
Speaker 1: days and weeks to come.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's so hard to think about because I think
Speaker 2: a lot of my processing has been through disassociation, like
Speaker 2: kind of pretending it's not happening. So I try not
Speaker 2: to think about it too much. Yeah, but I think
Speaker 2: it has taken obviously a very big toll, like psychologically
Speaker 2: and mentally, because how are you supposed to cope with
Speaker 2: all the other normal things that twenty three year old
Speaker 2: twenty four year old deals with while also having stage
Speaker 2: four cancer. While I didn't know stage war at the time,
Speaker 2: having cancer and especially a rare cancer, I went back
Speaker 2: to therapy. I think to like talk through things and
Speaker 2: unpack things. But I think also talking on TikTok and
Speaker 2: sharing videos like that has been a really helpful way
Speaker 2: for me to process everything that's going on as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, psychologically it's been a lot. Physically it's been
Speaker 2: a lot, but there's also been a lot of good
Speaker 2: that's come from it.
Speaker 1: I want to hear about all three of those things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about the first TikTok that you posted sharing
Speaker 1: your diagnosis.
Speaker 2: So I had got home from the beach with my friend,
Speaker 2: and I just started bawling right when I got home,
Speaker 2: right when I was alone, because I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: not the type of person to be able to cry
Speaker 2: in front of other people, which is funny because I
Speaker 2: cry on TikTok a lot and that obviously a lot
Speaker 2: of people see that, but in person, I preferred to
Speaker 2: process my emotions on my own, and so I just
Speaker 2: started bawling. And then, honestly, I don't know what spurred
Speaker 2: me to just record a video, but I had already
Speaker 2: been posting on the app, and I'd posted kind of
Speaker 2: everything randomly, so I just said, you know, I've posted
Speaker 2: everything on here, so I'm going to say this as well.
Speaker 2: I just found out I have cancer and I posted it.
Speaker 2: I didn't think anything of it, and then that video
Speaker 2: ended up going kind of viral, and I had so
Speaker 2: many people reach out to me, so many people comment,
Speaker 2: And I think cancer, unfortunately, is just a very relatable thing.
Speaker 2: It's becoming more common, so unfortunately a lot of people
Speaker 2: I think are able to relate to my story themselves
Speaker 2: or through their family or friends or someone they know.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about all of the interaction around
Speaker 1: talking about your cancer? Are people helpful? Have you found
Speaker 1: any information or doctors from it? Or is it emotionally exhausting?
Speaker 1: There are a lot of feelings associated with it.
Speaker 2: It has been very helpful, I think in both directions
Speaker 2: for me and for other people, because all post videos
Speaker 2: as well from things I've learned from other people, commpting
Speaker 2: like histotripsy, like these new technological advances for cancer treatment,
Speaker 2: and then I'll post my experience with it, like I
Speaker 2: looked into this, and then someone will message me or
Speaker 2: comment and say thank you so much. I had no
Speaker 2: idea this was a thing, and thanks to you, my
Speaker 2: significant other or my parent or my child was able
Speaker 2: to look into this. Wow. So it's amazing the amount
Speaker 2: of information you're allowed to receive and give to other people.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of just a circle.
Speaker 1: It is. I see it in the comment section. There's
Speaker 1: a TikTok that you made in your car. I have
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. I find it hard sometimes
Speaker 1: to watch other people be emotional on the internet, and
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way with you. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: why I need to unpacks. I know, and there's a
Speaker 1: TikTok that's in your car. You would just received some
Speaker 1: sad news signaled a setback, and you said, this just
Speaker 1: isn't what I thought my life was going to be.
Speaker 1: Like what was going through your mind? What did you
Speaker 1: think pre cancer diagnosis? What did you envision?
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I said this in another TikTok.
Speaker 2: Actually at the time in twenty twenty three, like the
Speaker 2: year I was diagnosed, I said, this has been the
Speaker 2: best year of my life, even though one of the
Speaker 2: worst things has happened, because I really found my community.
Speaker 2: I was loving my life in La I was going
Speaker 2: to surf Crew every week, I was going to run club.
Speaker 2: I felt like I had so much community and so
Speaker 2: much happiness around me and so many good friends. And
Speaker 2: then that happens so unexpectedly, and it was kind of
Speaker 2: just like, how is it possible? To have such happiness,
Speaker 2: in such a good life and have that kind of
Speaker 2: feel like it's being ripped from under you. So I
Speaker 2: guess I envisioned myself staying in LA probably honestly not
Speaker 2: moving to New York, and continuing to build that community,
Speaker 2: continuing to surf, continuing to run. I have a full
Speaker 2: time job in addition to doing content, which not many
Speaker 2: people know, So doing that and yeah, definitely not this.
Speaker 1: You don't fit any of the demographic factors for colangiocarcinoma,
Speaker 1: which is bioduct cancer. You received the diagnosis at twenty three,
Speaker 1: and it's this rare cancer that people over fifty usually have.
Speaker 1: How do you reckon with the fact that you have
Speaker 1: this when the odds are so slim. I think about
Speaker 1: that so often, and I'm like, how is this possible?
Speaker 2: Because I went to the Clandiocarsonoma conference this year and
Speaker 2: I spoke and everyone pretty much in the room was
Speaker 2: around fifty or over the age of fifty, and so
Speaker 2: I'm like, in these group photos and I'm the youngest
Speaker 2: person there, the youngest person in the room. People would
Speaker 2: constantly come up to me and be like, you're so young,
Speaker 2: And doctors say that all the time, they're like, you're
Speaker 2: so young. When I came to New York to MSK
Speaker 2: memori Elson Kettering to get a second opinion, my on
Speaker 2: call just now redid all the tests that I had
Speaker 2: originally done and redid my biopsy because he was like,
Speaker 2: you don't fit these demographics, Like I have a hard
Speaker 2: time believing that you have clandiocarcinoma, and I do, and
Speaker 2: it's so hard for me to process that, Like why
Speaker 2: did this happen to me at such a young age?
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand it honestly, And I think the
Speaker 2: only way I get through it is by not trying
Speaker 2: to understand it anymore, just accepting that it's what's happening
Speaker 2: right now, and you can only control your reaction. Yeah,
Speaker 2: things not what's happening.
Speaker 1: So have you disassociated so much?
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, some of the only times I process
Speaker 2: things are when I'm talking to TikTok, to my phone
Speaker 2: or else. I don't speak about it that often, Like
Speaker 2: I don't speak about it with my friends. I try
Speaker 2: not speak about it with my family too often. Why
Speaker 2: I think it's easier to pretend that it's not happening
Speaker 2: when you don't speak about it. Speaking about it almost
Speaker 2: makes it feel real. So just not talking about it,
Speaker 2: pretending that it's not happening, pretending that I can go
Speaker 2: out to dinner and go out with my friends and
Speaker 2: but I'm just a normal twenty five year old. That's
Speaker 2: kind of how I get through it.
Speaker 1: I think, do you feel different from your friends the
Speaker 1: way you talk about it is in college, you guys
Speaker 1: were like a unit. Yeah, you have this group.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's hard sometimes to have normal conversations now about
Speaker 2: like dating and like normal worries of a twenty five
Speaker 2: year old, because I just feel like my worries are
Speaker 2: a lot different now, Like I don't care about the
Speaker 2: small things as much. I care more about like life
Speaker 2: and death and like what's going to happen in the
Speaker 2: next year or so. So it is kind of hard
Speaker 2: for me to have lighthearted conversations or you know, small talk.
Speaker 2: If I'm going to like a party like something like that.
Speaker 2: It's kind of hard for me to pretend that everything's
Speaker 2: normal when something so big is happening.
Speaker 1: You wrote in your TikTok bio that you are slaying cancer. Yes,
Speaker 1: when you use that phrase, what does it mean to you?
Speaker 1: It has never had a definition to me.
Speaker 2: Really, I feel like it's more of an emotional fortification
Speaker 2: of like, I don't want to do this thing. I
Speaker 2: don't want to show up every day. I don't want
Speaker 2: to go to chemo. But regardless if I want to
Speaker 2: or not, I'm going to. So even if it's the
Speaker 2: last thing I want to do. If I say in
Speaker 2: a video like let's go slay some chemo, it kind
Speaker 2: of hypes me up and makes me more ready and
Speaker 2: prepared to go take this on, even if I don't
Speaker 2: quite feel ready.
Speaker 1: Do you see cancer as an enemy to fight or
Speaker 1: something that has forced you to look at things differently?
Speaker 2: Both? Honestly, I think more importantly probably forced me to
Speaker 2: look at things differently because my perspective on life, I
Speaker 2: feel like has changed so much over the past two years.
Speaker 2: But also recently I've been trying to see it more
Speaker 2: as an enemy. And I was talking to one of
Speaker 2: my friends who also had cancer in the city, and
Speaker 2: You're saying, what if we kind of treated it like
Speaker 2: it was this enemy, like it was this like mean person,
Speaker 2: And that kind of gave me a perspective change because
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I don't want to be friends
Speaker 2: with it. I want it to be gone for my body.
Speaker 2: So treating it almost in that light has been kind
Speaker 2: of helpful because it makes me want to fight it
Speaker 2: more aggressively and like, no, you don't belong to your
Speaker 2: get out of my body. And that's been a little
Speaker 2: bit helpful to think about it in that light.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're doing mental gymnastics always. How do
Speaker 1: you experience time right now? Does it go by fast?
Speaker 1: Does it go by slowly?
Speaker 2: It really depends on the week because my chemo week.
Speaker 2: So I had chemo this Monday, and it always goes
Speaker 2: so much slower after chemo because I want the day
Speaker 2: to go by, And whenever you want time to go
Speaker 2: by faster, it goes by slower. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: always the case. But when I'm off of chemo on vacation,
Speaker 2: on a trip, it goes by so fast, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I wish I could just stay in this moment longer.
Speaker 2: I wish I could stay in this peaceful moment, because
Speaker 2: it feels like it's really hard to find peace these days.
Speaker 2: So it's always those peaceful times that it feels like
Speaker 2: are very fleeting.
Speaker 1: Where are you experiencing peace or joy right now?
Speaker 2: It's always by the beach because I grew up by
Speaker 2: the beach in Florida, so I think whenever I'm by
Speaker 2: the beach, and I think a lot of people feel
Speaker 2: that way by the ocean. It's just very calming.
Speaker 1: I read on today dot Com that you were not
Speaker 1: able to freeze your eggs or take any other precautionary
Speaker 1: measures ahead of getting treatment. What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2: I actually woke up thinking about that this morning because
Speaker 2: a lot of my friends who have had cancer, because
Speaker 2: I've met a lot of people in this community, did
Speaker 2: freeze their eggs before, and I feel like for some reason,
Speaker 2: it wasn't brought to my attention that it was an
Speaker 2: important thing to do before starting chemo. I think also
Speaker 2: because we didn't know how long I was going to
Speaker 2: be in chemo for, which is now indefinitely, and I
Speaker 2: think about that very often, especially when I'm dating or
Speaker 2: trying to think about the potential of a future and
Speaker 2: a family. It makes me really anxious and sad to
Speaker 2: think about the fact that I didn't freeze my eggs
Speaker 2: ahead of time. Because you need, at least this is
Speaker 2: what they told me, you need a couple months off
Speaker 2: of chemo or like at least a month to be
Speaker 2: able to do the process of freezing your eggs, and
Speaker 2: I don't have that time off, so I'm not able
Speaker 2: to do it. So I'm kind of waiting for that
Speaker 2: day that hopefully I'll get a break and I'll be
Speaker 2: able to do it, just so I have that safety net,
Speaker 2: a feeling like one day if I am able to
Speaker 2: have a family, and I want to have a family,
Speaker 2: I do have that potential, which obviously there are other
Speaker 2: ways like adoption, IVF and stuff, but it is something
Speaker 2: that I wish I had done ahead of time.
Speaker 1: I like that you're thinking about a future though.
Speaker 2: I know. I mean it's important too, I think to
Speaker 2: have something to hold on to and to like fight for,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, So talk to me about your regimen right now?
Speaker 1: What does your day to day look like when you
Speaker 1: are experiencing chemo.
Speaker 2: I wake up, I do my get ready with me
Speaker 2: for chemo ghost slice. In chemo, my mom will normally
Speaker 2: come with me, and then we go home and I
Speaker 2: try to work. I work remotely, so I work remotely
Speaker 2: as much as I can, and then I sleep the
Speaker 2: rest of the time. And I really am just waiting
Speaker 2: for those two or three days to pass to where
Speaker 2: I start to feel normal again. Like today, I feel
Speaker 2: like I woke up and I started to feel a
Speaker 2: little bit more like myself again, And that's just the
Speaker 2: best feeling. Once I start to come back to myself,
Speaker 2: the brain fog starts to go away, and I start
Speaker 2: to feel like sitny again. That's like the best feeling.
Speaker 1: So you underwent five months of treatment and then your
Speaker 1: progress allowed you to undergo surgery, which had been the
Speaker 1: initial goal. So in January of twenty twenty four, you
Speaker 1: had a liver resection is that what it's called, and
Speaker 1: your gallbladder was removed, and then you had several abdominal
Speaker 1: lymphodes taken out. Yes, and the plan was to resume
Speaker 1: chemo afterward, but there was a combination of positive margins
Speaker 1: which means residual cancer cells, and your white blood cell
Speaker 1: count that never really rebounded. So what happened after that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I went back and I had one session
Speaker 2: of chemo, and then they looked at my blood work
Speaker 2: the next time and they were like, we can't give
Speaker 2: you chemo, your numbers are too low. And hearing that,
Speaker 2: I think for any cancer patient is one of the
Speaker 2: worst things you can hear. I've had other people tell
Speaker 2: me that too, which is a weird thing to say,
Speaker 2: because you hate going to chemo so much. When they
Speaker 2: tell you that you can't get it, it feels like
Speaker 2: the world is ending a little bit, because we know
Speaker 2: how important it is to get chemo every week and
Speaker 2: to stay on a regimen. So hearing that, I think
Speaker 2: I had a break down at the time, like we're
Speaker 2: stopping chemo, we're pausing chemo. It was nice, like I
Speaker 2: was like, I get a break, but it was also like,
Speaker 2: I know that I should be getting chemo. I know
Speaker 2: that that's the right thing to be doing at this
Speaker 2: time if I want to keep making like progress. So
Speaker 2: that was really hard to deal with at the time.
Speaker 2: But it was also nice because I got to enjoy
Speaker 2: my summer with my friends, and I'll think about it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: That was this summer. That was last summer, okay, And
Speaker 1: then what happened in the fall.
Speaker 2: So I went in for updated CT scans and it
Speaker 2: showed a nodule on my liver and we weren't sure
Speaker 2: at the time if that was scar tissue or if
Speaker 2: that was a tumor. So we waited another month and
Speaker 2: did follow up scans and it had grown, which meant
Speaker 2: that it was cancer, and so seeing that it was
Speaker 2: increasing in size was also kind of a moment of like,
Speaker 2: I need to kick things into gear, like, clearly this
Speaker 2: isn't working. And that's when I started to also look
Speaker 2: at memorials zonecuttering and like alternative treatment.
Speaker 1: And is that the reason you moved to New York?
Speaker 2: That's a major reason. Yeah. I also wanted to be
Speaker 2: closer to my family and my friends, because most of
Speaker 2: my college friends live in New York and my family
Speaker 2: also on the East Coast. So it was a combination
Speaker 2: of wanting better treatment but also wanting to be close
Speaker 2: to the people that knew me the best and know
Speaker 2: me longest.
Speaker 1: How important is it to be at a specific hospital.
Speaker 1: It's very important.
Speaker 2: I've talked to so many people with different types of
Speaker 2: cancer and my cancer who have said, oh, this small
Speaker 2: local hospital I originally went to had never seen clangocarsonoma,
Speaker 2: so they had no idea what to look for. People
Speaker 2: have been misdiagnosed based on that. So getting to a
Speaker 2: hospital that specializes, especially in the cancer that you have,
Speaker 2: is so critical. To have someone who's used to seeing
Speaker 2: your cancer who's used to treating it, who has many
Speaker 2: of background knowledge, I think is critical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you shared your struggle online about remaining positive and
Speaker 1: then also trying to find the balance of feeling all
Speaker 1: of the feelings and the sadness and the grief that
Speaker 1: comes with this. How do you allow yourself to feel
Speaker 1: the dark day but not get swallowed up by them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I think I've obviously had
Speaker 2: a hard time dealing with that as well, because it
Speaker 2: is a sad thing that's happening. You know, even if
Speaker 2: I am positive most of the time, it is still
Speaker 2: a really hard thing to go through. And I think
Speaker 2: one of the quotes I've heard that's helped me a
Speaker 2: lot is that emotion is energy and motion, and so
Speaker 2: if you try to stop it, it's like it'll just
Speaker 2: get stuffed down and ultimately it's all still going to
Speaker 2: come back up sometimes, So allowing myself to kind of
Speaker 2: picture it as a wave, the sadness is like hitting
Speaker 2: me as a wave, but I just have to let
Speaker 2: it go and feel it and process it and then
Speaker 2: it'll move on. I think that's the most helpful thing,
Speaker 2: just letting yourself feel whatever it is that you're feeling
Speaker 2: like not trying to step it down, not trying to
Speaker 2: be positive all the time. But I try not to
Speaker 2: do that. I try to post also the sad times
Speaker 2: because I know that, like, no one's happy all the time,
Speaker 2: and I think that's what also people relate to, is
Speaker 2: that I'm not happy and positive all the time. I'm
Speaker 2: also definitely sad and feeling all the emotions that are
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: Even in your saddest moments. There's a lot of hope
Speaker 1: in your videos. I honestly don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 1: There's no other way, I think for me to deal
Speaker 1: with this than being hopeful. Like I just don't see
Speaker 1: an alternative to being like positive, because I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: either going to get through it, I'm not.
Speaker 2: How I get there is up to me.
Speaker 1: So the nausea, the exhaustion, the roller coaster of all
Speaker 1: of this. Is there something you're saying to yourself when
Speaker 1: you feel like you're at your wits end you can't
Speaker 1: go on? I always have said to myself since the beginning,
Speaker 1: this too shall pass. Every time I'm at like the deepest,
Speaker 1: darkest part, I'm like, you have been through the ringer,
Speaker 1: you have been through the worst days, and you've still
Speaker 1: gotten past it, and you've still had so many happy
Speaker 1: moments after those really dark days, sometimes immediately after those
Speaker 1: dark days.
Speaker 2: You know. And so I'm always just reminding myself that
Speaker 2: even if it feels like you're not going to get
Speaker 2: through it, you have gotten through it endless time, so
Speaker 2: you can do it again. It does get harder, honestly
Speaker 2: as time goes on, because it's like, how many times
Speaker 2: do I have to keep picking myself back up in
Speaker 2: getting over that hurdle. So as time goes on, it
Speaker 2: has gotten more difficult to just keep telling myself that
Speaker 2: this is going to pass, This is going to pass.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of mental fortitude involved with what you're dealing.
Speaker 2: With, Definitely, I mean, I think for myself and for
Speaker 2: the people around me too. It's a huge mental I
Speaker 2: don't want to say burden, but it is really hard
Speaker 2: I think for everyone to deal with. Definitely for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you say everyone around you, the main people
Speaker 1: in your life are your mom and your brother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom and my brother, and then my best
Speaker 2: friends that are here and also in LA it's hard
Speaker 2: because they don't talk about it as much. With me.
Speaker 2: I think people want to be strong for you, Like
Speaker 2: no one wants to show that they're also feeling these
Speaker 2: heavy feelings too, so them being strong, I don't see
Speaker 2: the emotions behind it for most of the people in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 1: Is that helpful for you or do you wish that
Speaker 1: they would show it a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's helpful for me most of the time because it
Speaker 2: allows me to pretend that everything's fine when everyone else
Speaker 2: is also pretending things are fine. But sometimes I think
Speaker 2: I do wish that I was more emotional with the
Speaker 2: people that I love, and that would probably allow them
Speaker 2: to be more emotional with me in return to just
Speaker 2: so that we could actually acknowledge it and maybe like
Speaker 2: talk through some things that we probably are kind of
Speaker 2: pushing to the side to put on a brief face.
Speaker 1: Have you lost any relationships or have you fired any
Speaker 1: friends in this process?
Speaker 2: That's a good question. People always say that when you're
Speaker 2: going through something like this, you see who really matters
Speaker 2: and who will show up for you, And that's definitely
Speaker 2: been the case. I've seen, you know, who reaches out.
Speaker 2: It is also unexpected to see who reaches out, like
Speaker 2: people from your past or people that you maybe thought
Speaker 2: were more acquaintances or you didn't know as well, that
Speaker 2: will show up for you in the biggest ways.
Speaker 1: I got chilled when you said that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even like strangers on the street will come
Speaker 2: up to me and give me a hug and be like,
Speaker 2: you're basically my daughter, And I'm like, that's crazy that
Speaker 2: people that I've never met before have so much love
Speaker 2: for me. That's hard to process for me, Like, I
Speaker 2: honestly can't process that. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1: If you could point to one or two examples of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful and even unexpected ways people have shown
Speaker 1: up for you, One of.
Speaker 2: The biggest ways is when people that I went to
Speaker 2: school with or people that I've met kind of briefly
Speaker 2: will say, can I come to chemo with you? I
Speaker 2: think that's so sweet that you would want to come
Speaker 2: sit in a hospital with me while I'm getting treatment. Like,
Speaker 2: nobody really wants to be in a hospital. Nobody wants
Speaker 2: to see someone else getting chemo. It's kind of a
Speaker 2: sad thing to watch. So when people offer to come
Speaker 2: with me, I think that's really sweet. And at the
Speaker 2: same time, I never want people to come with me.
Speaker 2: I only ever really want my family to because I
Speaker 2: don't want people to see me that.
Speaker 1: Way, Would you feel like you have to perform for them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do feel like with my mom, I don't
Speaker 2: have to put on a brave face, I don't have
Speaker 2: to be positive, I don't have to be happy. I
Speaker 2: can just kind of sit there and let myself go
Speaker 2: through the treatment. But I feel like, almost if I
Speaker 2: was around my friends, if I was around acquaintances, I
Speaker 2: do kind of have to be a more happy version
Speaker 2: of myself in a sense, or a more energetic version
Speaker 2: of myself to hold a conversation and things like that.
Speaker 1: What have you learned about your own resilience?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so much. I feel like I had
Speaker 2: no idea how much my body was capable of before this.
Speaker 2: I had never been tested in this way, never had
Speaker 2: a broken bone, never gotten stunned by a bee, and
Speaker 2: then going through such a huge physical challenge like this,
Speaker 2: and knowing that my body keeps coming back for me,
Speaker 2: it makes me so proud of it. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: the human body is amazing. To go through so much
Speaker 2: and to still be here and to be fighting every
Speaker 2: single day, I'm very proud of I think my body
Speaker 2: as a whole, and obviously there is a lot of
Speaker 2: mental resilience required, because, as we've talked about, you have
Speaker 2: to show up for yourself every single day, Like, even
Speaker 2: if you're having an off day, you're still showing up
Speaker 2: for yourself because you're still pushing through, You're still waiting
Speaker 2: to get to the other side.
Speaker 1: You're for surprise yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think every time I finished chemo. Every time
Speaker 2: at the end of the week, I'm surprised for myself
Speaker 2: because I'm like, you did it again. You got through it.
Speaker 2: And it's so hard, especially to know that it's indefinite,
Speaker 2: like there's not a finish line. And I just made
Speaker 2: a video yesterday saying like it feels like I'm on
Speaker 2: a treadmill and it feels like the destination that I'm
Speaker 2: running to just keeps getting further and further away. And
Speaker 2: it's so hard to deal with that, deal with not
Speaker 2: having a definite ending and just knowing that I have
Speaker 2: to keep going back week after week and dealing with this.
Speaker 2: It's really tough.
Speaker 1: What does indefinite mean?
Speaker 2: Indefinite means that we're crossing our fingers and hoping for
Speaker 2: a day where I can get surgery again. But it's
Speaker 2: a really weird to also now have a pump in
Speaker 2: my body and to know that's kind of there forever potentially,
Speaker 2: to know that my body is maybe forever changed, or
Speaker 2: it is forever changed by a lot of what's happened,
Speaker 2: but by the pump specifically, and just not having that
Speaker 2: end date in mind that like you'll do X amount
Speaker 2: of chemo and you'll be good. It's not like that.
Speaker 2: It's like, we'll see what happens, and we'll keep doing
Speaker 2: chemo until we can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1: You posted the other day a photo of your stomach yep,
Speaker 1: and you have a big scar that kind of like
Speaker 1: lines the center of your stomach. I'll tell you my
Speaker 1: first reaction. I thought, warrior. I thought that's a battle wound,
Speaker 1: and it's a physical manifestation of her fight. When you
Speaker 1: look at it, what do you feel?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I feel like I got so used to the
Speaker 2: scar because I've had it for over a year at
Speaker 2: this point, that I think it's kind of bad ass.
Speaker 1: I agree, that shows what I've been through.
Speaker 2: It shows like all the fight that I've had to
Speaker 2: go through, you know. But now it's been a huge
Speaker 2: adjustment to look down at the pump and see this
Speaker 2: new thing sticking out of my body that is not
Speaker 2: there for most people that has been I think more
Speaker 2: of an adjustment because everyone has scars. But I feel
Speaker 2: like this is something that's a little more unusual. I
Speaker 2: was just in Florida on vacation and wearing a bathing suit,
Speaker 2: and little kids are curious and they don't have the
Speaker 2: same ability to hide, you know, what they're thinking or feeling,
Speaker 2: and so I had a lot of little kids like
Speaker 2: staring at my stomach and asking their parents like what
Speaker 2: is that? Like what's going on there? And so for me,
Speaker 2: that's a constant reminder like, oh, there is something unusual
Speaker 2: going on. But I had a friend reach out to
Speaker 2: me after being in Florida and she was like, curiosity
Speaker 2: is the best thing, because who knows if someone's curiosity
Speaker 2: is going to lead them to finding out that exists
Speaker 2: for them too, that this exists, for their family member,
Speaker 2: that something that you've had to go through can help
Speaker 2: them potentially or someone that they know. So now I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. This is a cool thing that I
Speaker 2: have and it's helping me and it could help someone else.
Speaker 2: So that's how I'm trying to reframe it.
Speaker 1: I like that perspective. Shit, it's not easy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not easy, but it's so helpful because the
Speaker 2: alternative is me being worried about it, and so if
Speaker 2: I could turn it into a positive, that's like exponentially better.
Speaker 1: So a lot of what we've talked about is like
Speaker 1: the physical manifestation of what cancer has done to your body.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of grief here, and I can
Speaker 1: imagine a lot of loneliness. What has been the biggest
Speaker 1: fight for you in all of this.
Speaker 2: I think it is probably that feeling of loneliness. I
Speaker 2: think loneliness is one of the worst emotional feelings that
Speaker 2: someone can experience. It has gotten a lot better over
Speaker 2: time because I've met so many young people with cancer
Speaker 2: who can relate to what I'm going through. Because of
Speaker 2: me post on social media and being vulnerable, I've been
Speaker 2: able to meet so many people who have felt the
Speaker 2: exact same things as me, and that has been so helpful.
Speaker 2: I think if I had never posted and just gone
Speaker 2: through this, I would have felt a lot more alone,
Speaker 2: just because none of my other friends are going through this.
Speaker 2: It's such a hard thing to relate to unless you're
Speaker 2: going through it yourself. You can maybe grieve with someone,
Speaker 2: you can try to relate to them, but you can't
Speaker 2: experience it the same way.
Speaker 1: I think about who I was at twenty five, and
Speaker 1: it's an interesting age because you've had a few years
Speaker 1: post college, and so you're watching your friends get first
Speaker 1: or second jobs and have fights with their boyfriends and
Speaker 1: feel frustrated and they don't know how to deal with it.
Speaker 1: Or some people are going on dates and there's like
Speaker 1: wild nights in Brooklyn I can imagine, and just normal
Speaker 1: twenty five year old stuff. Yeah, And I read a
Speaker 1: piece that you wrote in Cosmo where you talked about
Speaker 1: how it's so difficult to kind of have this very
Speaker 1: similar and different experience than them. Do you feel like
Speaker 1: time has been stolen from you.
Speaker 2: It's hard to not feel like it has, especially when
Speaker 2: I'm at chemo and I'm like sleeping off the week.
Speaker 2: It feels like time is being wasted, especially when I
Speaker 2: have so much a greater awareness of time now, where
Speaker 2: it feels like time is more precious now. And then
Speaker 2: I see my friends going out and having fun, and
Speaker 2: I do try to go with them sometimes, but I'm
Speaker 2: normally in bed by midnight, you know, and they're still
Speaker 2: out and that's really sad. Like I see them having fun,
Speaker 2: I see them with their boyfriends and progressing their relationships
Speaker 2: and people getting engaged, and I'm not even in a relationship.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even say I'm dating honestly, Like I try to,
Speaker 2: but it's really hard to date while you're actively going
Speaker 2: through chemo and you have cancer, because it's not something
Speaker 2: that I would just casually bring up to someone that
Speaker 2: I don't really know that well.
Speaker 1: You know, are you wanting to date?
Speaker 2: I am wanting to date. Yeah, it's not my priority
Speaker 2: right now. And honestly, I feel like being single the
Speaker 2: past couple of years and focusing so much on myself
Speaker 2: because of this has been so immensely helpful, honestly, Like
Speaker 2: I've learned so much more about myself and who I
Speaker 2: am to the point where I like myself and I
Speaker 2: like being alone. So while I do like it, it's
Speaker 2: like I also do miss that comfort of having someone.
Speaker 2: And I see my friends with their boyfriends and I
Speaker 2: love it. I love it for them, but it also
Speaker 2: makes me kind of sad because I'm like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: the fifth wheel, or like I wish I had someone
Speaker 2: else to share these experiences with too. Honestly, and like
Speaker 2: to find comfort in.
Speaker 1: Do you find that when you are dating that people
Speaker 1: understand what's happening? You're saying, no way.
Speaker 2: It's honestly hard for me to conceptualize as well, because
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine if I was on the other end
Speaker 2: and I had just started dating someone and they told
Speaker 2: me that they had stage four cancer. Honestly, I don't
Speaker 2: know how I would react. I don't know if it
Speaker 2: would change my opinion at all or my perspective, but
Speaker 2: I think it has to in some way. Like you're
Speaker 2: dealing with someone who has something going on that's very
Speaker 2: physically and mentally challenging, and to know that you're probably
Speaker 2: not going to be the priority in their life that
Speaker 2: you have to support them, I can imagine must be
Speaker 2: really difficult. So if someone does step away, if someone
Speaker 2: hears that I have cancer and is like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be involved, I honestly don't blame them, because
Speaker 2: it's a really big thing to take on. As anyone
Speaker 2: that's close in my life.
Speaker 1: Knows, has this experience changed what you're looking for in love?
Speaker 2: I think it has. I think, more than anything, I
Speaker 2: need to be one hundred percent comfortable with someone. I
Speaker 2: feel like you kind of can get an initial vibe
Speaker 2: off someone right away if you feel comfortable with them
Speaker 2: or not. And I think now, if I don't feel
Speaker 2: one hundred percent comfortable with someone, I would just move
Speaker 2: on because that's what is most important to me, is
Speaker 2: someone who I can be one hundred percent myself around,
Speaker 2: because there are so many bad days with this too.
Speaker 2: I want someone who's going to be able to be
Speaker 2: there on the worst days and not care and not
Speaker 2: judge me, and like, just be there for me.
Speaker 1: Have you been in love before?
Speaker 2: I think I have been in love before. Yeah, in college,
Speaker 2: my last relationship, which is weird because thinking about it,
Speaker 2: I haven't been in a relationship since then, throughout this
Speaker 2: whole time, so it's kind of strange to think about
Speaker 2: the fact that it's been a while since I've been
Speaker 2: in love with a romantic partner. But it also has
Speaker 2: allowed me to find love in so many other ways,
Speaker 2: Like I feel like I love my friends so much,
Speaker 2: and I love my family, and I love life so much,
Speaker 2: and I feel like I've learned throughout this experience that
Speaker 2: love doesn't necessarily need to be in a romantic partner
Speaker 2: can be for yourself, or for your friends, or for
Speaker 2: life itself.
Speaker 1: In an essay in Cosma that you wrote, you said,
Speaker 1: my friends are settling down, wondering when they'll take the
Speaker 1: next steps with their boyfriends, and making their five year plans.
Speaker 1: I wonder if I'll be here in five years. Have
Speaker 1: you had conversations about death?
Speaker 2: Honestly, not really. I feel like, not necessarily that I'm superstitious,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I don't want to speak about
Speaker 2: something that may or may not happen. I'd rather just
Speaker 2: focus on the positives. So I think I maybe once
Speaker 2: mentioned to my mom that I should write a wall,
Speaker 2: just because I wanted there to be some sort of
Speaker 2: sense of security. But for the most part, no, we
Speaker 2: don't talk about it at all. We talk about life.
Speaker 2: We talk about living and dating and all the fun
Speaker 2: things that I think twenty five year olds is normally
Speaker 2: can talk about.
Speaker 1: In this series, I get to talk to people from
Speaker 1: all walks of life, and a lot of the questions
Speaker 1: that you're facing are questions that I've asked or have
Speaker 1: heard people ask themselves that are seventy eighty ninety What
Speaker 1: have you learned about what is important about life?
Speaker 2: I think the small thing have become so small. I
Speaker 2: think that there's just been a lot of clarity on
Speaker 2: what's the most important in life, and to me, that's love,
Speaker 2: that's relationships, your friendships, and so those are the things
Speaker 2: that I care about. I try not to sweat the
Speaker 2: small stuff anymore. I try not to be anxious about
Speaker 2: what's happened in the past. And I think we talked
Speaker 2: a little bit about being present, and I think that
Speaker 2: being present has been one of the biggest lessons for me,
Speaker 2: is enjoying this moment because none of us know what's
Speaker 2: going to happen. It's not just people with cancer, but
Speaker 2: like none of us know what the next day is
Speaker 2: going to hold. So there's no point in stressing over that.
Speaker 2: And there's no point stressing over things that have happened
Speaker 2: in your past because you can't change them. So I
Speaker 2: think I've learned so much about being present and being
Speaker 2: in this moment and trying to enjoy it as much
Speaker 2: as possible.
Speaker 1: I see your courage online every single day. I know
Speaker 1: millions of people do, but your mom and your brother
Speaker 1: have been with you upfront through all of this.
Speaker 2: How have they shown up for you in this time.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to my mom yesterday on the
Speaker 2: FONT and we were talking about cold capping, which is
Speaker 2: a very intense process that some chemo patients will go
Speaker 2: through to save their hair. But she showed up every
Speaker 2: chemo session. We would have to go get fifty pounds
Speaker 2: of dry ice. She would have to do every twenty
Speaker 2: minutes change these giant ice packs on my head for
Speaker 2: around six hours every chemo session. And she came out
Speaker 2: to California for me, you know, took a break from
Speaker 2: her job and showed up to be there for me
Speaker 2: so that she could cold cap and so that she
Speaker 2: could be there for mental support as well. And my
Speaker 2: brother has come to chemo with me as well, and
Speaker 2: they always are offering to do whatever they can. And
Speaker 2: it's really hard to know what you can do for
Speaker 2: someone in a situation, but they're always there for me,
Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1: Is there something that you believed about life before this
Speaker 1: journey that you no longer believed to be true?
Speaker 2: I think before I believed that everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people that go through
Speaker 2: cancer will tell you everything does not happen for a reason.
Speaker 2: And I think when people say that now it's like,
Speaker 2: that's just not true. Things can happen maybe to teach
Speaker 2: you something or maybe you learn from it, but that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it was supposed to happen. And I
Speaker 2: think that cancer is not supposed to happen to anyone.
Speaker 2: So I think that's probably one of the biggest things
Speaker 2: that has changed.
Speaker 1: I've heard that a lot. There's a lot of sort
Speaker 1: of moral platitudes that people share when something hard happens,
Speaker 1: And everybody that I've talked to that has dealt with
Speaker 1: illness is like, fuck, literally, don't let you know. That's
Speaker 1: like what actually makes them the most mad. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, because I would say that before too. I
Speaker 1: would be like, oh, this bad thing happened to me,
Speaker 1: and well, you know what, it was probably for a reason.
Speaker 1: I don't think that there was a reason for this,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that I haven't learned things from it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So cancer diagnosis in young, seemingly healthy people are on
Speaker 1: the rise. If you had one takeaway from this experience
Speaker 1: that would want young people who receive the diagnosis to know,
Speaker 1: what would it be.
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing that I've learned over
Speaker 2: the past two years is to seek out second opinions
Speaker 2: and third opinions and fourth opinions if you can, because
Speaker 2: the way that the first doctor will treat you or
Speaker 2: give you a treatment plan for is not the same
Speaker 2: as the next person. And I think that's been really
Speaker 2: critical for me, especially with a rare cancer, is finding
Speaker 2: someone who knows it very well, is able to see
Speaker 2: it from all angles and have also multiple perspectives to
Speaker 2: go into it and know that I'm getting the best
Speaker 2: treatment possible, because I think one of the worst feelings
Speaker 2: that I've had is looking back and feeling like I
Speaker 2: regret not being more proactive. And it's very difficult as
Speaker 2: a young person to want to be so proactive and
Speaker 2: want to seek out all these opinions. It takes a
Speaker 2: lot on top of really challenging diagnosis, but it is
Speaker 2: I think one of the most critical things as well.
Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, have you met anybody that
Speaker 1: you feel really connected to other cancer patients, especially younger
Speaker 1: ones like people my age. It's honestly crazy to meet
Speaker 1: them and to talk about the experiences because they're so
Speaker 1: eerily similar. It's honestly a breath of fresh air because
Speaker 1: it's like, you know what I'm going through. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: the exact feelings that I'm having, you know, the anxiety
Speaker 1: of will my hair fall out?
Speaker 2: Will I be able to have children one day? Like
Speaker 2: you know, every worry that I've had. So that's been, like, honestly,
Speaker 2: such an amazing source of connection for me.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier that sharing can be cathartic for you.
Speaker 1: Part of your story that no one expected was that
Speaker 1: there would be people that doubted your story. So you
Speaker 1: caught the attention of a very strange corner of the
Speaker 1: Internet where people gathered in Reddit forums to try and
Speaker 1: prove that you did not have cancer. The record, you
Speaker 1: do and you did have cancer. But how did you
Speaker 1: become aware of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was actually with my brother. I'd gone home,
Speaker 2: I think for Christmas, for the holidays, and he offhand mentioned, oh,
Speaker 2: that Reddit page. I thought he was joking because I
Speaker 2: had only heard of Reddit pages in the context of
Speaker 2: like celebrities. So I was like, what possibly could people
Speaker 2: be having to say about me? All I do is post,
Speaker 2: you know, because of me going to chemo and talking
Speaker 2: about like the struggles that I'm experiencing. So I was
Speaker 2: kind of in shock when he first said that, And
Speaker 2: I think He didn't know that it would have such
Speaker 2: an impact on me at the time. But then I
Speaker 2: of course went and looked at it right away, because
Speaker 2: even though I think all of us would rather not
Speaker 2: see bad things about ourselves online, we're all curious, and
Speaker 2: so I went on pretty much right away and saw
Speaker 2: that people were saying that I was faking it because
Speaker 2: I still had hair, because I was still going out
Speaker 2: and hanging out with my friends, because I was still exercising,
Speaker 2: and I was in complete shock and felt like I
Speaker 2: had to prove myself. I was like, I have to
Speaker 2: prove that I have cancer, which sounds so silly that
Speaker 2: you would ever have to prove that to people online.
Speaker 2: But when you do post online, I think you are
Speaker 2: a subject to criticism, unfortunately, and a lot more than
Speaker 2: you would otherwise be if you were just going through
Speaker 2: it normally.
Speaker 1: So you got a doctor's note and then the New
Speaker 1: York Times did a piece on you about the whole situation.
Speaker 1: How did you feel when the piece came out.
Speaker 2: I honestly felt like a little bit of a weight
Speaker 2: had been lifted off my shoulders because I felt like
Speaker 2: I had been thinking about for so long, how do
Speaker 2: I prove that I'm going through this. I already show
Speaker 2: that I'm going to chemo every week. I already show
Speaker 2: myself with like the infusion actively going in. I was like,
Speaker 2: how could I possibly change people's minds who clearly just
Speaker 2: don't want their minds to be changed. They have this
Speaker 2: really strong belief. So once there was the definitive someone
Speaker 2: else had seen me go to chemo, had gone with me,
Speaker 2: had talked to my doctor, and had proven that yes,
Speaker 2: she does have cancer. That was kind of like a
Speaker 2: cyb of RelA.
Speaker 1: This is one of the strangest stories. It must have
Speaker 1: felt so bizarre.
Speaker 2: It was so weird to live through on top of
Speaker 2: also going to chemo. Yeah, because I was already like,
Speaker 2: this is such a mental challenge to go through every
Speaker 2: day just having cancer, but then add another layer on
Speaker 2: top of having to try to prove it you have
Speaker 2: cancer or to question that everything you're posting. When you're
Speaker 2: sad and you're posting you crying, people are saying that
Speaker 2: it's fake. When you're happy, people are saying that it's
Speaker 2: too positive and it's toxic positivity. It's like, how can
Speaker 2: I just show up as myself and not be criticized
Speaker 2: or judged for it. It's so difficult.
Speaker 1: Well, it's really bizarre to feel like you have to
Speaker 1: perform for the internet when what you're dealing with is
Speaker 1: so isolating to begin with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do feel now that the New York
Speaker 2: Times article has happened, honestly, like it could be so
Speaker 2: much more of myself again, like I'm not questioning everything
Speaker 2: I'd post. It's just me and I'm not like, oh,
Speaker 2: is someone gonna criticize me for this and judge being
Speaker 2: for this? You know. Good.
Speaker 1: At the same time, You've also seen like huge beauty
Speaker 1: come from the internet. I think people have posted so
Speaker 1: many messages of support, donated money for you and your mom.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of messages of love. What do
Speaker 1: you think it is about your story that resonates with
Speaker 1: people so deeply?
Speaker 2: I think it briefly touched on this before, but I
Speaker 2: think that showing all sides of what I'm going through
Speaker 2: has been a very relatable experience for people, because you
Speaker 2: do so often on social media see only the best
Speaker 2: sides of things and only the positive and only the highlights.
Speaker 2: But that's not what I'm going through. It's not the highlights,
Speaker 2: it's everything. It's the good and the bad. And I
Speaker 2: always say that you can't have the good without the bad,
Speaker 2: and you can have the bad without the good. And
Speaker 2: so I think that people see that I'm going through
Speaker 2: something challenging and I am struggling, and everyone has had
Speaker 2: something that they've gone through.
Speaker 1: What do you think somebody like me who's watching your
Speaker 1: experience on the internet doesn't actually understand.
Speaker 2: Probably how challenging it is on a daily basis. It's
Speaker 2: not something that I can clock in and clock out of.
Speaker 2: And I feel like people online sometimes you watch and
Speaker 2: you see such a small segment of their life, and
Speaker 2: you think that you can understand. But I just don't
Speaker 2: think unless you go through this yourself, you can possibly
Speaker 2: understand how physically and mentally challenging and draining it is
Speaker 2: on a daily basis to think about and to just
Speaker 2: have to deal with. I think that unless you go
Speaker 2: through it, it's really hard to understand.
Speaker 1: You seem so wise beyond your years, Sydney, and I
Speaker 1: would imagine that there's some lessons from this journey that
Speaker 1: people don't understand or wouldn't know until they got older.
Speaker 1: How do you feel like you've changed the most in
Speaker 1: the last few years.
Speaker 2: In so many ways. I think that I've always had
Speaker 2: a lot of empathy for other people, but I think
Speaker 2: one of the biggest lessons I've learned is you never
Speaker 2: know what someone is going through. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: that I'm a great case in point for that because
Speaker 2: I'm actively in chemo and still have my hair and
Speaker 2: don't look maybe like the picture of someone who typically
Speaker 2: has cancer. And that has allowed me as well to
Speaker 2: think about what other people are going through that you
Speaker 2: might not be able to see, whether it be something
Speaker 2: mentally or something that they're dealing with themselves or their family. Like,
Speaker 2: you never know the kind of day that someone is having,
Speaker 2: So to lead with compassion and lead with empty I
Speaker 2: think is one of the most important things that I've
Speaker 2: taken from this experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel pressure to like live every day
Speaker 1: to its fullest?
Speaker 2: Yes? And no. I kind of feel like I do
Speaker 2: want to live as much as possible. But I also
Speaker 2: feel like it changed my focus to kind of enjoy
Speaker 2: that rest time and enjoy the time where I'm just
Speaker 2: like sitting with friends watching TV like that has kind
Speaker 2: of become the most important thing is those small moments,
Speaker 2: so it's not necessarily taking big trips or going skydiving
Speaker 2: or whatever, but also just those times when you're just
Speaker 2: sitting with your family or your friends and just enjoying life.
Speaker 1: I have a list of things that every year I
Speaker 1: put together that I want to do. Do you have
Speaker 1: a list of things you're wanting to do or is
Speaker 1: it important to throw those out the window?
Speaker 2: I think I have thrown them out the window. I
Speaker 2: think it's important to take it for me day by day.
Speaker 2: That's also one of the biggest lessons is to not
Speaker 2: think too far ahead and to just enjoy like right here.
Speaker 2: And so for me, it's like I can try to
Speaker 2: plan these trips, but my plans will probably be changed.
Speaker 2: I had a trip planned to Austria that I canceled
Speaker 2: because I had my second surgery. So it's really hard
Speaker 2: to have these big lists or accomplishments that I want
Speaker 2: to have because I don't know what's going to happen
Speaker 2: and things are constantly changing. So I think that being
Speaker 2: right here is honestly the most important thing for me.
Speaker 1: You've become a voice and an advocate in this space too.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you spoke at a conference. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: has this experience and your diagnosis changed your career and
Speaker 1: your influencing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I never envisioned myself to be speaking in
Speaker 2: front of other people. I always got so nervous giving
Speaker 2: presentations in class, and like, I have so much anxiety
Speaker 2: around public speaking normally, But knowing that like I can
Speaker 2: help people by speaking about things and like by advocating
Speaker 2: has been so cool for me. Like I never thought
Speaker 2: that I would be an advocate. And as far as
Speaker 2: just like my career and trajectory, I've always had the
Speaker 2: same career from being diagnosed to now, But I think
Speaker 2: having something that I'm really passionate about has been so
Speaker 2: cool as well, because it doesn't feel like a job
Speaker 2: or anything. It's just something that I show up and
Speaker 2: I talk to people on the internet and can relate
Speaker 2: to people and in turn in helping so many people
Speaker 2: and they're helping me. So it's taken quite an unexpected turn,
Speaker 2: but in the best story possible.
Speaker 1: I like hearing that thank you. Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you something and I hope that it doesn't come
Speaker 1: off the wrong way. If it does, you can punch
Speaker 1: me in the face or tell me say pass. But
Speaker 1: if today and hopefully you wouldn't be spending your last
Speaker 1: day on Earth with me. But if today were your
Speaker 1: last day on Earth? Yeah, what would you want to
Speaker 1: tell people? What would you want people to know?
Speaker 2: I've actually thought about this before, like if I were
Speaker 2: to make one more video, what would I say and
Speaker 2: it was my last video? I think I would just
Speaker 2: remind people what I've said to you already is to
Speaker 2: treat people with kindness. Like that is literally the biggest
Speaker 2: thing that I could tell anyone, especially dealing with the
Speaker 2: Reddit stuff. It's like, just treat people with compassion and
Speaker 2: thee and treat people the way that you want to
Speaker 2: be treated. It sounds so cliche and it's such a
Speaker 2: common saying, but I feel like we never know what
Speaker 2: someone is going through, and if you could spread like
Speaker 2: a little bit of kindness, a little bit of positivity
Speaker 2: goes such a long way for someone else and could
Speaker 2: baked their day they're week. That's the thing that I
Speaker 2: would always tell people.
Speaker 1: That's really beautiful, And I think cliches are in our
Speaker 1: culture for a reason.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1: I'm going to do some rapid fire, Okay, something you're
Speaker 1: avoiding that's on your to do list.
Speaker 2: Rescheduling my therapy because I love her, but she also
Speaker 2: makes me think way too hard sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yes, I understand that a core memory you reflect on
Speaker 1: the most.
Speaker 2: Probably the day that I found out that I had cancer.
Speaker 2: I think I'll always just think about picking up that
Speaker 2: report for the first time and seeing the words cancer
Speaker 2: or carcinoma. I think I will always be such a
Speaker 2: strong memory in my mind.
Speaker 1: If you could choose where your taxes go, where would
Speaker 1: you allocate them?
Speaker 2: I think, going through what I've gone through, I would
Speaker 2: say cancer research, especially with cancer research and NIH being defunded.
Speaker 2: I've also seen so many other cancer patients not be
Speaker 2: able to get life saving treatment because it's way too
Speaker 2: expensive or their insurance won't cover it.
Speaker 1: So that's right, an iconic piece of clothing you love
Speaker 1: to wear.
Speaker 2: So I already have kind of my Dorothy shoes on
Speaker 2: right now, So I think I would like to wear
Speaker 2: her red slippers because I feel like it'd be a
Speaker 2: little magical.
Speaker 1: A book that changed your life, something you think everybody
Speaker 1: should read.
Speaker 2: Liked The Midnight Library. I read it before I was diagnosed,
Speaker 2: and it made me have such a different perspective on
Speaker 2: what if. Like, I'm a big burnt toast theory person,
Speaker 2: and so it kind of shows you that maybe the
Speaker 2: alternatives or like lives that you think would be so
Speaker 2: amazing actually wouldn't be so amazing for you. Like your
Speaker 2: life is perfect for you the way it is.
Speaker 1: That's really beautiful. Something that every woman should try once.
Speaker 2: I think therapy. I think I would say that for
Speaker 2: any person, not just women. But there's a book the
Speaker 2: body keeps the score, and I think women especially have
Speaker 2: a lot of trauma ingrained that maybe they aren't even
Speaker 2: consciously knowledgeable of. So I think that going to therapy
Speaker 2: and also being single, because I think being single is
Speaker 2: just so important. You learned so much about yourself. I've
Speaker 2: learned so much about myself over the past couple of years,
Speaker 2: and I think it's just good practice to go on
Speaker 2: solo dates and to like know that you're the most
Speaker 2: important person in your life and someone else is just
Speaker 2: adding on to that. They're not making you a whole person,
Speaker 2: because your whole on your own.
Speaker 1: You really understand that at a much younger age than
Speaker 1: most people. The smartest decision you've ever made.
Speaker 2: Believing in myself in so many ways, because I never
Speaker 2: thought I would get into Dartmouth, and I believe in
Speaker 2: myself and I did it. I never thought I would
Speaker 2: be a model and I ended up trying it and
Speaker 2: I did it. I never thought I would get my
Speaker 2: yoga certification and I did it. So I think just
Speaker 2: knowing that you can do almost anything that you set
Speaker 2: your mind to and having confidence, that's been really important
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have the question everything card game for you? Okay,
Speaker 1: pick whichever card. It's sort of like taro, like whichever
Speaker 1: one you feel connected to. Okay, it's weird people usually
Speaker 1: pick the card that's meant for them.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, what compliment do you hear the most? Which
Speaker 2: means the most to you, and which one makes you
Speaker 2: the most uncomfortable. That's actually a really good question. I
Speaker 2: think the one that makes me most uncomfortable or that
Speaker 2: I don't know how to react to is when people
Speaker 2: say you look so healthy, just because I know it's
Speaker 2: meant to be a compliment, but it's also like you
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on beneath the surface. And I
Speaker 2: think the compliment that means the most to me is
Speaker 2: probably that I've inspired someone, just because it's crazy to
Speaker 2: me that I am inspiring people just by being vulnerable
Speaker 2: and sharing online. So it always means so much from
Speaker 2: people like stop me in the street or comment that
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I feel like you've given millions of people
Speaker 1: inspiration but also courage to face their lives with more hope.
Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for all that you
Speaker 1: share and who you are, because you show up as
Speaker 1: you every single day, good, bad, ugly, heart, all of it,
Speaker 1: and you're a special person.
Speaker 2: Sydney. Thank you. I really appreciate that, and thank you
Speaker 2: for having me and letting me share a little bit
Speaker 2: more about my story and myself.
Speaker 1: Sydney, no must day. The light in all of us
Speaker 1: honors the light in you.
Speaker 2: You are so loved,