WEBVTT - Thelma Schoonmaker: Martin Scorsese's Secret Weapon 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.440 This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:10.400 the thing, My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.880 to hear their stories, What inspires their creations, what decisions 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:20.840 change their careers, what relationships influenced their work behind Every 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.720 good filmmaker is a brilliant editor, and Martin Scorsese is 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:29.240 no exception. His counterpart film A. Schoonmaker has edited every 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.479 film the cinematic giant has done since Raging Bull, earning 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:38.280 her three Academy Awards and seven nominations. With a face 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.639 and demeanor like your favorite grade school teacher, one has 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.440 to wonder how Schoonmaker has made it through editing the 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:49.240 epic violence of Scorsese's films. But however she does it, 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.519 it's working. She and Scorsese's forty plus years of collaborating 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.520 is widely considered to be one of the most successful 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:01.080 working marriages in movie history. But talented as Schoolmaker is, 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.760 editing films wasn't always the plan. Born to American parents 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.240 in Algiers in nineteen forty, Schoonmaker dreamed of becoming a 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:14.160 diplomat and working overseas, but fate intervened, and today fresh 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.600 off editing scores, says He's newest film Silence. She looks 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.800 back on the moments that shaped her both as a 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.880 filmmaker and a person, something like Age of Innocence. We 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.920 certainly had to slow down and and figure out how 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.240 to reach a pace that reflected nineteenth century New York 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.600 with Kundoon, which was one of my favorites. Uh I 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.720 had to really learn a great deal about Tibet itself, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.560 and also Marty wanted to know how to shoot the 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.080 san mandala, which the monks make for two weeks, This beautiful, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.880 beautiful thing they make with just funnels of different colored 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.960 sand and then after two weeks they wash it all 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.279 away in the river. It's unbelievable and it's really hard work. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.760 Um So he wanted to open Kundooon. We did with 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.440 very tight shots of images of the mandala, and he 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.160 wanted to know what were the important ones for him 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.880 to shoot. So I had to learn about the sand mandala. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.960 This was before we started shooting. I'm usually not needed 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.440 before shooting, and so I got to go down and 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.640 watch the monks make this incredible sound mandala. That was 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.680 a lot of fun learning about Tibet and becoming acquainted 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.639 with these wonderful Tibetans who were in the film because 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.040 there weren't there weren't actors, they were actually acting out 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.400 what was happening to them. Um. That was a very 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.440 extraordinary experience for me, and I've remained a supporter of 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.040 the cause and and friends with Tibetans ever since. So 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.440 that was really world changing for me. As this movie 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:48.840 now Silence has been for me. It's made me think 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.640 deeply about my own faith and also to learn so 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.000 much about the people who are still Jesuits, for example, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.840 the Order, the fervor of that order, Um is extraordinary 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.360 to meet them. And the advisors who came to help 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.120 us on the film were so amazing people. So I 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:13.520 loved delving into a seventeenth century Japan. The Japanese actors 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.119 themselves were so incredible. I couldn't believe how wonderful they were. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.160 Even the extras. You never had to worry about cutting 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.320 away from a shot because an extra wasn't paying attention 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.960 or not doing what they were supposed to do. Every 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.600 single person who came from Japan to work in that 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:34.640 movie were so dedicated and learning to edit people speaking 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:39.440 Japanese or Japanese speaking a language that was not native 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.520 to them was was very interesting too. But that this 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.720 this film silence has had the same impact on me. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.600 That couldn't doned it When you talk about the sand 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.320 Mandala and you coming in early to discuss with him 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.320 that you know what shots you might need or not 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.080 need for the sequence, but you say that you're not 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.760 involved in that kind of composition. Typically you don't sit 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:03.200 down with him during the period of storyboards. Does he storyboard? Oh? Yes, 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.640 he still Now he tends to write on the right 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.200 side of the script a little, the little image that 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.400 he wants. No, he designs all the camera work, always has, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.400 and I'm not needed usually in the writing um or 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.560 any designing of the film. So I come on when 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.119 it starts shooting, with the exception of Kundun. Really, so 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.800 when you come on when it starts shooting, does he 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.920 come to do you come to him? Because I've seen 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.360 this experience on films that I've made, where with any 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.400 director where the the editor is sending messages to them saying, well, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.960 we could use this, we could use this angle. I 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.279 rarely have to do that with him because he thinks things. 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.159 He's a great editor. So he thinks like an editor. 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.680 When he conceives of the movie. He usually has an 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.479 editing style on mine. Also when he writes or co 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.600 writes the movie, and when he shoots it, he's thinking 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.280 like an editor. There are occasions where I do ask 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.800 for things. For example, in the drowning sequence where Garupe 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.279 played by Adam Driver drowns in silence. Um, it was 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:10.400 very difficult shoot, very cold, and Adam was getting you know, hypothermia, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.760 and so I didn't feel I had quite enough footage 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.720 for the drowning sequence, particularly because the stunt women in 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.320 Taiwan we're not sort of as tough as maybe more 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.080 experienced stunt woman would be. UM, and to be shoved 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.360 down under the water constantly was was difficult for them. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.280 So that was one of the few times in Taiwan. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.440 On this incredible sequence where Uh Rodriguez played by Adam 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:43.440 Garfield is made to watch Uh Japanese Christians pushed off 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.080 boats wrapped in straw mats so that they will drown. 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.720 It's a terrifying sequence, and Marty shot it with three cameras, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.560 so there wasn't a lot of control in that situation. UM, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.120 and he was very interesting. He had an idea that 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.360 he wanted to show the horror of these will being 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.120 pushed off in the water from a wide shot, to 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.680 show the banality of it, like the banality of the 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.599 way the Nazis killed people. So it was very complicated shoot. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.080 He was trying to get those white shots close ups 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.279 on Adam Garfield and cover Garupe and the other and 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.240 the Japanese Christians, and it was all happening simultaneous. It 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.760 was chaos, but so I was eventually able. We never 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.280 did get any additional footage, but I was able to 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.520 sort of make it work. I think that's never a 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.359 thought of going into a tank or doing anything with 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.400 us or the set. There was some thought of that, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.040 but then we decided not to so, but that's one 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.039 of the few times there are occasions when I asked 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.080 for something. But he he's such a great editor, you know, 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.520 he knows what he needs. And my husband Michael Powell 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.839 once said to him, you don't need to do master 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.680 shots cut into the center of the scene. Don't do 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.520 master shots. Marty only does them now as rehearsal. Really, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.440 so not that he doesn't love wide shots. He keeps 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.880 saying today with all the fast cutting that's going on. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.760 Whatever happened to the shot, the shot that Stanley Kubrick 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:09.040 would come up with five minutes. You could watch this 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.720 incredible shot and never be bored. And now what's happened 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.400 to it? He says, It's just vanished. But I want 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.160 to get back to when you're in the editing room. 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.679 Are you cutting a film together and you start hearing 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.600 music yourself? What's the inner life for you when you're 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.920 cutting a film? Well, first of all, the most important 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.360 time for me is when he looks at Daily's. Now, 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.560 when he's looking at Daily's I look at the footage first, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:35.920 um as soon as it comes in to make sure 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.320 there isn't something missing or something wrong. Or sometimes the 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.080 camera when one of the great shots in Raging Bull, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.800 where it begins on DeNiro down in the basement of 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:51.120 this enormous stadium and he the steadicam cameras backing up 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.200 in front of him. It's an amazing tour to fourth shot, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.600 Marty's preferred take on that was ruined in the lab. 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.640 There was a claw that went off in the camera, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.040 and so I had to go on the set and 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.080 tell him his favorite take with Ruth. Unfortunately, we had 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.000 just as good ones. But what he does in dailies 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.600 is really fascinating. I wish that in a way filmmakers 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:19.520 could listen to him, because he's very, very tough on himself, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.440 and he constantly talks to me during the dailies. I 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.080 like that. I don't like that. That's I think I'm 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.240 going to get better on take seven. UM, don't ever 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.360 show me that to me again. Burn that, UM and so. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.480 And I'm also telling him what I think. First of all, 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.480 he wants me to be a cold eye. He wants 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:40.920 me not to have been on the set and see 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.880 how they did something, UM or hear from him what 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.600 he's going to do. He wants me to look at 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.920 it cold and tell him if it works. So that 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.559 is my part of my job. So I tell him 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.240 what I think. He tells me what he thinks, and 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:57.880 from those incredibly rich reactions of him, I then begin 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 to create select and then I do the cut before 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.760 he comes in when he's through shooting, and then from 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.199 that point on we do all the rest of the 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.560 twelve if we can get away with it, twelve different 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.760 edits of the movie together, very twelve different edits of 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.120 the movie. That's what we prefer to do if we can, 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.280 or one of the is there a bible that dictates 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.199 what those twelves are? Can you just use you're a 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.520 phrase to have a manual? Is there the Thelma Marty 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.840 manual of that mentions each twelve of those? You know 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.200 what happens is that, you know, we don't screen the 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.000 first two or three cuts because we're still trying to 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.599 get the film in shape. But once we start to 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.920 screen with very few people, maybe twelve people who our friends, 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.040 who we know, we'll be honest, so we does confer 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.280 with other people. Oh, yes, well we debrief I I 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.280 mainly do most of the debriefing afterwards. So we will 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.360 screen with twelve people, say, then I debrief them very 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.120 heavily for two or three days. Uh. Then we do 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.680 the second cut, and we screen for more people, and 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.080 pretty soon we get up to two hundreds, at which 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.120 point I can't debrief everybody. We do cards. Then we 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.200 like too if we have time to do twelve, because 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.480 that's how long it takes. You have to live with 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.480 the movie. People don't understand that I have to marinate it. Yeah, 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.240 you have to live with it and learn what it 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:16.000 wants and what it needs. And um so uh, all 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.760 the editing is just absolutely fascinating. You would love to 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.040 be in the room. This is a work that you 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.600 didn't necessarily I wouldn't say you fell into it, but 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.559 you were certainly on a different course for while you. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.000 You grew up where my mother and father met in France. Um, 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.880 they were both Americans. They married there. My older brother 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.240 was born there in Paris, and then we were transferred 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.000 to Algeria and my mother crossed the Mediterranean Ocean. She 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.640 was carrying me at the time. I was born in Algeria. 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.720 But unfortunately the North African Invasion occurred where all the 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.439 Allies invaded to try and get rid of the Nazis 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.679 in other parts of Northern Africa, and so we were evacuated. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.079 But my mother loved Algeria. She would have loved to 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:59.599 stay there. She was always out here. Dad I was 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.000 there because was with shell oil standards, so y. And 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.440 then my father went to Aruba in the Caribbean, and 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:13.040 that's where I grew up with. Yes, in the war 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.559 time and post war time, well, in the war time, 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.160 that's right, and they were actually torpedoing, they were trying 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.640 to knock the Germans were trying to knock out the 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.000 refinery because it was fueling the North African invasion, and 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:31.840 so they would lobb torpedoes and also um mortars in 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.800 trying to hit the oil tanks which were above where 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.440 we were living. So we were taken out every night, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.320 wrapped in blankets and taken to the one building that 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.800 was made of stone, um and stay there. And I 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:48.240 remember seeing the burning tankers along the horizon. Um. But 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.680 eventually the Germans did not take the island. And what 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.480 happened was they brought all kinds of Europeans, people from Australia, 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:57.680 from all over the world. So I grew up in 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.920 a European atmosphere, which I love. So when I came 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.079 back to the States, when my father was transferred back 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.480 to New York, it was a shock at the bends. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.199 It was shocking. It was really the most shocking thing 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:13.280 for you. You're in New York, Yeah, it was no 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.800 New Jersey. So in a my father was commuting into 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.559 New York. UM. So I was in Ridgwood, New Jersey, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.120 which was you know, could parts of it were well off. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.319 We were not. We were in the sort of poorer 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.240 part of it. But The thing that shocked me was 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.160 the rigidity of this sort of social code. If you 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.440 weren't a cheerleader or football player, you were nobody. And 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.000 I was very unused to that kind of thing, and 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.720 and also seemed very limited. Although the education there was excellent, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.120 but it wasn't until I went to Cornell University, where 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.120 I met a whole bunch of New York Jewish girls. 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.320 I was saved because they read books, they listened to 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.160 music like I did. I was and I just loved 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.560 being at Cornell. And and you're a different plan. You 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.080 were going to study Cornell. Well, I wanted to become 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.640 a diplomat, so I studied the Russian language. Is one 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.720 of the first Russian language courses in America because Sputnik 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.240 had just gone up, so everyone was panicking. And so 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.000 I studied Russian and political science with some great, great teachers. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.760 And then I went and took the Foreign Service Exam. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.920 That's the exam, but they do a stress test with 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.440 you afterwards, where they have people from the CIA and 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.559 other things try and upset you, as if you're at 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.320 a reception in South Africa and they say, what would 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.960 you say if somebody said, what do you think about apartheid, 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.679 I said, I would say it's terrible, and they said, well, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.240 you can't say that until the government tells you. You 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.240 can say that. You were going to that's right, you're 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.920 going to be very unhappy here. You should go to 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.040 the U S. I A. But I didn't want to 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:47.160 do that. I don't know the travel bug. What's the 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.400 difference something? You're right, I don't know. It was probably 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.160 stupid of me, on the other hand, so I went 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.480 to work for the first Peace Corps program at Columbia University. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.520 They were going to see early on and then I 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.360 saw something in the New York Times which never occurs, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.319 which said willing to train assistant film editor. No wait, now, 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.960 what the hell are you thinking? Well, what was interesting 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.800 was that there was this wonderful program called Million Dollar 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.439 Movie Remember, which ran the US the same film nine times, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.840 and Scorsese learned about so many films, but particularly the 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.960 films of Paula and Pressburger. He would watch them nine 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.880 times until his mother said she was going to kill him. Um, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.680 and I was watching that same program. I didn't even 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.400 know that I was watching the Life and Death of 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.120 Colonel Bloom. So you're a movie watcher. Well, I guess 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.960 I was. I didn't know that that it meant anything. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.480 But were movies in your family, Well, yes, I did see. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.240 My mother took me to see the Rich Shoes in 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.320 the Ruba, and at one point they were a big 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.960 movie with your parents. Um, not big ones, no, but 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.560 theater music. Well yes, when my mother would have, having 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.480 lived in Paris, she loved all arts and she taught 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.800 me enormously about that, which was great, very interesting. My 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.000 brothers completely didn't go with it at all. They hated it, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.840 and my mother and I whenever we would see one 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.920 of those signs on the side of the road, you 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.280 know that says revolutionary farmhouse or something, we would immediately 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.120 and they would go, oh no. And even to this day, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.200 my brother won't go into a museum, whereas the first 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.040 thing I do, I go into a museum. So my 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.560 mother gave me all of that. I'm so grateful. Even 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.000 though she didn't want me watching television in the afternoon, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.880 I did, and I remember that. The Life and Death 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.800 of Colonel Bloom, which is still one of I think 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.880 my all time favorite of my husband's films, was seared 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.440 into my mind. I remember that and I remember, Hamlet 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.760 was pretty Olivier's Hamlet was pretty startling. But I just guess. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:43.720 I saw this ad in the New York Times said 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.160 willing to train assistant filmmaker, and I thought, well, why 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.360 don't I just go see what this is like? So 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.680 and it was this horrible man who was butchering the 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.520 films of Felini, Antonioni Truffaux for late night television stalts 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.240 and on Rocco and his brother Visconti's Great film. He 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.600 took out one entire reel. I said, you can't do that, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:05.880 and he said, nobody's looking at these things at one 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.760 o'clock in the morning, but Marty was. And um, so 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.840 it was pretty appalling. But I did learn to cut 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.560 negative and I learned to put subtitles. That was a job. 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.600 You had to do that, and he trained you had 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.440 to do it. And I learned to use a movie 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.960 all which was very helpful. Then I couldn't stand this 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.320 guy anymore. And I saw an ad and it said 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.800 a six week course at what was called Washington College, 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.840 which became part of NU and a six week course 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.840 in in filmmaking. So I thought, well, if I quit, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.600 I just have enough money to take that course. So 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.600 I went to something changed while you had that job. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.520 You got the bug, I guess, so I guess. So. 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.040 So I get there at this course and uh run 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.640 by an incredible Armenian American named Hagan NuGen And when 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.280 I first went down, I was a little late and 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.520 I heard somebody screaming inside the lecture hall. Turned out 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.320 that's just the way Hagen Nugian always talked, and he 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.960 was a wonderful support to Marty. Marty wasn't there then, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.640 wasn't well, Marty, No, this is how I met him. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.760 So we go to this six weeks course and they 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.120 carve us up into ten, ten people for each little film. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.240 And the film I was on was a documentary about 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:16.080 harness racing, so boring. But at the end of the 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.000 six weeks, close to the end of the six weeks, 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.360 the professor said, does anybody here know how to cut 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.600 negative or help Martin Scorsese because he's made a student 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.560 film and somebody has cut his negative wrong, and so 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.200 if there's anybody who can help him, And I said, well, 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.399 I'll try, you know um, And I went over and 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.160 he had been up for two days editing the movie, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.760 and he was completely zonked, but his eyes were open, 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.800 and so I started running the film on the synchronizer 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.680 and I said, well, you've lost six frames here, maybe 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.920 we can add them at the tailor. So I helped 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.560 him patch it back together. But explain to people who 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.919 don't know what you mean by negative cutting. What happens 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.280 is when you get a take, the camera slows down 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.439 and you get what's called a flash frame, so a 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.640 white four or five frames. You finish it in your movie. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.480 Then you have to cut the negative to fit the 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.760 way you've edited the workprint. So you pull the negative 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.840 first from flash frame to flash frame, and then very 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.199 carefully you spice it together. You you match it to 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.800 the workprint, and you cut off what you don't need. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.320 You never cut right close to what the number was 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.680 on the workprint. And this young woman had accidentally done that. 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:28.880 By the way, about fifty years later she contacted me. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.680 I'm the person who did it, and I'm so sorry, 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:35.879 And I said, no, don't be sorry. You gave me 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.359 the greatest life in the world. If you hadn't just 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.680 cut that negative, I would never have met him. Oh 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.119 my god. So it's a miracle. So you so you 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.840 salvage Marty's a student student film, and what did you 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.000 make of him? Then? Well, it's a young so it's Marty. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.040 It was in college, right, Well, all of us knew 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.960 from one particular student film call It's Not Just You Murray, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.800 which is filled with incredible ideas that he had it. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.320 It was very clear he had it. What was it 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.040 that he had? Storytelling on film? Pretty an idea of 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:10.720 startling ideas. For example, It's not just Hu Murray starts with, uh, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.119 somebody's shoes and a hand comes into frame and he 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.679 encourages the camera to lift up to his face. It 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.320 was just, I mean, just unbelievable, great, great ideas. Uh So, 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.359 then what happened was a group of us got together 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.800 and we were making films for PBS Short Films UM, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:34.280 covering Aretha Franklin concerts UM and helping fellow filmmakers finish 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.320 their films. And one of them was Marty's Who's That Knocking? 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.119 His first feature film, which he had shot part of 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.200 and had run out of money, and so we volunteered 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.880 our efforts to help him finish it. And then he 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.240 taught me how to edit on that movie. I knew 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.200 nothing about editing, nothing, so I was on the crew 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.120 as we were trying to help him finish it, and 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.359 we all did everything. We pushed the wheelchair that had 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.159 the cameraman in it because we didn't have dollars. Um 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.040 we ran sound. I would get lunch. I learned to 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.320 tie into power sources in the basement. People said to me, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.760 bend your legs because if you get the jolt, you'll 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.879 fall down and it'll break the contact. So and I 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.800 drove the car with the cameraman on the front effort 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.439 on again for a tracking shot. It was great. It 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.840 was I think it was the Cone Brothers. I could 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.399 be wrong. I was reading an article about raising Arizona 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.240 and they they were saying how their improvisations with the 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.400 camera led to like certain names. They have thing called 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.600 the blankie can, and if you wanted the camera to 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.600 have the point of view of the dog that was 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.320 attacking you, they would lay the cinema targity operator on 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.359 a blanket and pull him across the lawn and he'd 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.160 be right on the heels of the victim. Came everybody 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.439 was doing them. I mean, now you know Napoleon, the 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.760 Great film by Abel Goaz, a silent film. He had 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.600 small cameras that he threw over the He had people 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.800 throw them over the wall of this fortress to give 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:02.920 the idea of what a cannonball would be like going 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.680 into a fortress. So it was the point of view 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:10.280 of of the cannonball. So people, you know, people were 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:16.600 inventing all of these things all along in film coming 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.080 up the one piece of work that Schoonmaker considers the 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:26.280 perfect film to hear another voice behind some of Hollywood's 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.960 biggest films. Check out my interview with former Walt Disney 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.600 CEO Michael Eisner. Today, he still prefers movie theaters to 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.920 a private screening room. I almost only go to the theater. 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.840 I go at least twice a week. And what do 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.040 you do? I often go at ten o'clock or midnight. 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.760 Uh can't drag my wife's out. Usually I'll go in 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.320 the afternoon. I can remember even being at ABC when 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.240