1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: the thing, My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: to hear their stories, What inspires their creations, what decisions 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: change their careers, what relationships influenced their work behind Every 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: good filmmaker is a brilliant editor, and Martin Scorsese is 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: no exception. His counterpart film A. Schoonmaker has edited every 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: film the cinematic giant has done since Raging Bull, earning 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: her three Academy Awards and seven nominations. With a face 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,639 Speaker 1: and demeanor like your favorite grade school teacher, one has 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: to wonder how Schoonmaker has made it through editing the 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: epic violence of Scorsese's films. But however she does it, 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: it's working. She and Scorsese's forty plus years of collaborating 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: is widely considered to be one of the most successful 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: working marriages in movie history. But talented as Schoolmaker is, 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: editing films wasn't always the plan. Born to American parents 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: in Algiers in nineteen forty, Schoonmaker dreamed of becoming a 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: diplomat and working overseas, but fate intervened, and today fresh 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: off editing scores, says He's newest film Silence. She looks 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: back on the moments that shaped her both as a 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: filmmaker and a person, something like Age of Innocence. We 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: certainly had to slow down and and figure out how 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: to reach a pace that reflected nineteenth century New York 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: with Kundoon, which was one of my favorites. Uh I 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: had to really learn a great deal about Tibet itself, 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: and also Marty wanted to know how to shoot the 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: san mandala, which the monks make for two weeks, This beautiful, 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: beautiful thing they make with just funnels of different colored 28 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: sand and then after two weeks they wash it all 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,279 Speaker 1: away in the river. It's unbelievable and it's really hard work. 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Um So he wanted to open Kundooon. We did with 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: very tight shots of images of the mandala, and he 32 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: wanted to know what were the important ones for him 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: to shoot. So I had to learn about the sand mandala. 34 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: This was before we started shooting. I'm usually not needed 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: before shooting, and so I got to go down and 36 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: watch the monks make this incredible sound mandala. That was 37 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: a lot of fun learning about Tibet and becoming acquainted 38 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: with these wonderful Tibetans who were in the film because 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: there weren't there weren't actors, they were actually acting out 40 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: what was happening to them. Um. That was a very 41 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: extraordinary experience for me, and I've remained a supporter of 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the cause and and friends with Tibetans ever since. So 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: that was really world changing for me. As this movie 44 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: now Silence has been for me. It's made me think 45 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: deeply about my own faith and also to learn so 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: much about the people who are still Jesuits, for example, 47 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: the Order, the fervor of that order, Um is extraordinary 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: to meet them. And the advisors who came to help 49 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: us on the film were so amazing people. So I 50 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: loved delving into a seventeenth century Japan. The Japanese actors 51 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: themselves were so incredible. I couldn't believe how wonderful they were. 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Even the extras. You never had to worry about cutting 53 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: away from a shot because an extra wasn't paying attention 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: or not doing what they were supposed to do. Every 55 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: single person who came from Japan to work in that 56 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: movie were so dedicated and learning to edit people speaking 57 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: Japanese or Japanese speaking a language that was not native 58 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: to them was was very interesting too. But that this 59 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: this film silence has had the same impact on me. 60 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: That couldn't doned it When you talk about the sand 61 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: Mandala and you coming in early to discuss with him 62 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: that you know what shots you might need or not 63 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: need for the sequence, but you say that you're not 64 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: involved in that kind of composition. Typically you don't sit 65 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: down with him during the period of storyboards. Does he storyboard? Oh? Yes, 66 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: he still Now he tends to write on the right 67 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: side of the script a little, the little image that 68 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: he wants. No, he designs all the camera work, always has, 69 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: and I'm not needed usually in the writing um or 70 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: any designing of the film. So I come on when 71 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: it starts shooting, with the exception of Kundun. Really, so 72 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: when you come on when it starts shooting, does he 73 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: come to do you come to him? Because I've seen 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: this experience on films that I've made, where with any 75 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: director where the the editor is sending messages to them saying, well, 76 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: we could use this, we could use this angle. I 77 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: rarely have to do that with him because he thinks things. 78 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: He's a great editor. So he thinks like an editor. 79 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: When he conceives of the movie. He usually has an 80 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: editing style on mine. Also when he writes or co 81 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: writes the movie, and when he shoots it, he's thinking 82 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: like an editor. There are occasions where I do ask 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: for things. For example, in the drowning sequence where Garupe 84 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: played by Adam Driver drowns in silence. Um, it was 85 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: very difficult shoot, very cold, and Adam was getting you know, hypothermia, 86 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and so I didn't feel I had quite enough footage 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: for the drowning sequence, particularly because the stunt women in 88 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: Taiwan we're not sort of as tough as maybe more 89 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: experienced stunt woman would be. UM, and to be shoved 90 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: down under the water constantly was was difficult for them. 91 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: So that was one of the few times in Taiwan. 92 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: On this incredible sequence where Uh Rodriguez played by Adam 93 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: Garfield is made to watch Uh Japanese Christians pushed off 94 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: boats wrapped in straw mats so that they will drown. 95 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: It's a terrifying sequence, and Marty shot it with three cameras, 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: so there wasn't a lot of control in that situation. UM, 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: and he was very interesting. He had an idea that 98 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: he wanted to show the horror of these will being 99 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: pushed off in the water from a wide shot, to 100 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: show the banality of it, like the banality of the 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: way the Nazis killed people. So it was very complicated shoot. 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: He was trying to get those white shots close ups 103 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: on Adam Garfield and cover Garupe and the other and 104 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: the Japanese Christians, and it was all happening simultaneous. It 105 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: was chaos, but so I was eventually able. We never 106 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: did get any additional footage, but I was able to 107 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: sort of make it work. I think that's never a 108 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: thought of going into a tank or doing anything with 109 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: us or the set. There was some thought of that, 110 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: but then we decided not to so, but that's one 111 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: of the few times there are occasions when I asked 112 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: for something. But he he's such a great editor, you know, 113 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: he knows what he needs. And my husband Michael Powell 114 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: once said to him, you don't need to do master 115 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: shots cut into the center of the scene. Don't do 116 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: master shots. Marty only does them now as rehearsal. Really, 117 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: so not that he doesn't love wide shots. He keeps 118 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: saying today with all the fast cutting that's going on. 119 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: Whatever happened to the shot, the shot that Stanley Kubrick 120 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: would come up with five minutes. You could watch this 121 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: incredible shot and never be bored. And now what's happened 122 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: to it? He says, It's just vanished. But I want 123 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: to get back to when you're in the editing room. 124 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 1: Are you cutting a film together and you start hearing 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: music yourself? What's the inner life for you when you're 126 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: cutting a film? Well, first of all, the most important 127 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: time for me is when he looks at Daily's. Now, 128 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: when he's looking at Daily's I look at the footage first, 129 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: um as soon as it comes in to make sure 130 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: there isn't something missing or something wrong. Or sometimes the 131 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: camera when one of the great shots in Raging Bull, 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: where it begins on DeNiro down in the basement of 133 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: this enormous stadium and he the steadicam cameras backing up 134 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: in front of him. It's an amazing tour to fourth shot, 135 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: Marty's preferred take on that was ruined in the lab. 136 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: There was a claw that went off in the camera, 137 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: and so I had to go on the set and 138 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: tell him his favorite take with Ruth. Unfortunately, we had 139 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: just as good ones. But what he does in dailies 140 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: is really fascinating. I wish that in a way filmmakers 141 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: could listen to him, because he's very, very tough on himself, 142 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: and he constantly talks to me during the dailies. I 143 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: like that. I don't like that. That's I think I'm 144 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: going to get better on take seven. UM, don't ever 145 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: show me that to me again. Burn that, UM and so. 146 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: And I'm also telling him what I think. First of all, 147 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: he wants me to be a cold eye. He wants 148 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: me not to have been on the set and see 149 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: how they did something, UM or hear from him what 150 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: he's going to do. He wants me to look at 151 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: it cold and tell him if it works. So that 152 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: is my part of my job. So I tell him 153 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: what I think. He tells me what he thinks, and 154 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: from those incredibly rich reactions of him, I then begin 155 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: to create select and then I do the cut before 156 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: he comes in when he's through shooting, and then from 157 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: that point on we do all the rest of the 158 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: twelve if we can get away with it, twelve different 159 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: edits of the movie together, very twelve different edits of 160 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: the movie. That's what we prefer to do if we can, 161 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: or one of the is there a bible that dictates 162 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: what those twelves are? Can you just use you're a 163 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: phrase to have a manual? Is there the Thelma Marty 164 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: manual of that mentions each twelve of those? You know 165 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: what happens is that, you know, we don't screen the 166 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: first two or three cuts because we're still trying to 167 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 1: get the film in shape. But once we start to 168 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: screen with very few people, maybe twelve people who our friends, 169 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: who we know, we'll be honest, so we does confer 170 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: with other people. Oh, yes, well we debrief I I 171 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: mainly do most of the debriefing afterwards. So we will 172 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: screen with twelve people, say, then I debrief them very 173 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: heavily for two or three days. Uh. Then we do 174 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: the second cut, and we screen for more people, and 175 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: pretty soon we get up to two hundreds, at which 176 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: point I can't debrief everybody. We do cards. Then we 177 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: like too if we have time to do twelve, because 178 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: that's how long it takes. You have to live with 179 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: the movie. People don't understand that I have to marinate it. Yeah, 180 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: you have to live with it and learn what it 181 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: wants and what it needs. And um so uh, all 182 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: the editing is just absolutely fascinating. You would love to 183 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: be in the room. This is a work that you 184 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily I wouldn't say you fell into it, but 185 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: you were certainly on a different course for while you. 186 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: You grew up where my mother and father met in France. Um, 187 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: they were both Americans. They married there. My older brother 188 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: was born there in Paris, and then we were transferred 189 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: to Algeria and my mother crossed the Mediterranean Ocean. She 190 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: was carrying me at the time. I was born in Algeria. 191 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: But unfortunately the North African Invasion occurred where all the 192 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: Allies invaded to try and get rid of the Nazis 193 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: in other parts of Northern Africa, and so we were evacuated. 194 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: But my mother loved Algeria. She would have loved to 195 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 1: stay there. She was always out here. Dad I was 196 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: there because was with shell oil standards, so y. And 197 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: then my father went to Aruba in the Caribbean, and 198 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: that's where I grew up with. Yes, in the war 199 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: time and post war time, well, in the war time, 200 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: that's right, and they were actually torpedoing, they were trying 201 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: to knock the Germans were trying to knock out the 202 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: refinery because it was fueling the North African invasion, and 203 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: so they would lobb torpedoes and also um mortars in 204 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: trying to hit the oil tanks which were above where 205 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: we were living. So we were taken out every night, 206 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: wrapped in blankets and taken to the one building that 207 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: was made of stone, um and stay there. And I 208 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: remember seeing the burning tankers along the horizon. Um. But 209 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: eventually the Germans did not take the island. And what 210 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: happened was they brought all kinds of Europeans, people from Australia, 211 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: from all over the world. So I grew up in 212 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: a European atmosphere, which I love. So when I came 213 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: back to the States, when my father was transferred back 214 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: to New York, it was a shock at the bends. 215 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: It was shocking. It was really the most shocking thing 216 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: for you. You're in New York, Yeah, it was no 217 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: New Jersey. So in a my father was commuting into 218 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: New York. UM. So I was in Ridgwood, New Jersey, 219 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: which was you know, could parts of it were well off. 220 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: We were not. We were in the sort of poorer 221 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: part of it. But The thing that shocked me was 222 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: the rigidity of this sort of social code. If you 223 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: weren't a cheerleader or football player, you were nobody. And 224 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: I was very unused to that kind of thing, and 225 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: and also seemed very limited. Although the education there was excellent, 226 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: but it wasn't until I went to Cornell University, where 227 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: I met a whole bunch of New York Jewish girls. 228 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: I was saved because they read books, they listened to 229 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: music like I did. I was and I just loved 230 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: being at Cornell. And and you're a different plan. You 231 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: were going to study Cornell. Well, I wanted to become 232 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: a diplomat, so I studied the Russian language. Is one 233 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: of the first Russian language courses in America because Sputnik 234 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: had just gone up, so everyone was panicking. And so 235 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: I studied Russian and political science with some great, great teachers. 236 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: And then I went and took the Foreign Service Exam. 237 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: That's the exam, but they do a stress test with 238 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: you afterwards, where they have people from the CIA and 239 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: other things try and upset you, as if you're at 240 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: a reception in South Africa and they say, what would 241 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: you say if somebody said, what do you think about apartheid, 242 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: I said, I would say it's terrible, and they said, well, 243 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: you can't say that until the government tells you. You 244 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: can say that. You were going to that's right, you're 245 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: going to be very unhappy here. You should go to 246 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: the U S. I A. But I didn't want to 247 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: do that. I don't know the travel bug. What's the 248 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: difference something? You're right, I don't know. It was probably 249 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: stupid of me, on the other hand, so I went 250 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: to work for the first Peace Corps program at Columbia University. 251 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: They were going to see early on and then I 252 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: saw something in the New York Times which never occurs, 253 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: which said willing to train assistant film editor. No wait, now, 254 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: what the hell are you thinking? Well, what was interesting 255 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: was that there was this wonderful program called Million Dollar 256 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: Movie Remember, which ran the US the same film nine times, 257 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: and Scorsese learned about so many films, but particularly the 258 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: films of Paula and Pressburger. He would watch them nine 259 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: times until his mother said she was going to kill him. Um, 260 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: and I was watching that same program. I didn't even 261 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: know that I was watching the Life and Death of 262 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: Colonel Bloom. So you're a movie watcher. Well, I guess 263 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: I was. I didn't know that that it meant anything. 264 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: But were movies in your family, Well, yes, I did see. 265 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: My mother took me to see the Rich Shoes in 266 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: the Ruba, and at one point they were a big 267 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: movie with your parents. Um, not big ones, no, but 268 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: theater music. Well yes, when my mother would have, having 269 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: lived in Paris, she loved all arts and she taught 270 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: me enormously about that, which was great, very interesting. My 271 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: brothers completely didn't go with it at all. They hated it, 272 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: and my mother and I whenever we would see one 273 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: of those signs on the side of the road, you 274 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: know that says revolutionary farmhouse or something, we would immediately 275 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: and they would go, oh no. And even to this day, 276 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: my brother won't go into a museum, whereas the first 277 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: thing I do, I go into a museum. So my 278 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: mother gave me all of that. I'm so grateful. Even 279 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: though she didn't want me watching television in the afternoon, 280 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: I did, and I remember that. The Life and Death 281 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: of Colonel Bloom, which is still one of I think 282 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: my all time favorite of my husband's films, was seared 283 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: into my mind. I remember that and I remember, Hamlet 284 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: was pretty Olivier's Hamlet was pretty startling. But I just guess. 285 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: I saw this ad in the New York Times said 286 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: willing to train assistant filmmaker, and I thought, well, why 287 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: don't I just go see what this is like? So 288 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: and it was this horrible man who was butchering the 289 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: films of Felini, Antonioni Truffaux for late night television stalts 290 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: and on Rocco and his brother Visconti's Great film. He 291 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: took out one entire reel. I said, you can't do that, 292 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: and he said, nobody's looking at these things at one 293 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, but Marty was. And um, so 294 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: it was pretty appalling. But I did learn to cut 295 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: negative and I learned to put subtitles. That was a job. 296 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: You had to do that, and he trained you had 297 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: to do it. And I learned to use a movie 298 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: all which was very helpful. Then I couldn't stand this 299 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: guy anymore. And I saw an ad and it said 300 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: a six week course at what was called Washington College, 301 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: which became part of NU and a six week course 302 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: in in filmmaking. So I thought, well, if I quit, 303 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: I just have enough money to take that course. So 304 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: I went to something changed while you had that job. 305 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: You got the bug, I guess, so I guess. So. 306 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: So I get there at this course and uh run 307 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: by an incredible Armenian American named Hagan NuGen And when 308 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: I first went down, I was a little late and 309 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: I heard somebody screaming inside the lecture hall. Turned out 310 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: that's just the way Hagen Nugian always talked, and he 311 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: was a wonderful support to Marty. Marty wasn't there then, 312 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: wasn't well, Marty, No, this is how I met him. 313 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: So we go to this six weeks course and they 314 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: carve us up into ten, ten people for each little film. 315 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: And the film I was on was a documentary about 316 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: harness racing, so boring. But at the end of the 317 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: six weeks, close to the end of the six weeks, 318 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: the professor said, does anybody here know how to cut 319 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: negative or help Martin Scorsese because he's made a student 320 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: film and somebody has cut his negative wrong, and so 321 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: if there's anybody who can help him, And I said, well, 322 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: I'll try, you know um, And I went over and 323 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: he had been up for two days editing the movie, 324 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: and he was completely zonked, but his eyes were open, 325 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: and so I started running the film on the synchronizer 326 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: and I said, well, you've lost six frames here, maybe 327 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: we can add them at the tailor. So I helped 328 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: him patch it back together. But explain to people who 329 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: don't know what you mean by negative cutting. What happens 330 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: is when you get a take, the camera slows down 331 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: and you get what's called a flash frame, so a 332 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: white four or five frames. You finish it in your movie. 333 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: Then you have to cut the negative to fit the 334 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: way you've edited the workprint. So you pull the negative 335 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: first from flash frame to flash frame, and then very 336 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: carefully you spice it together. You you match it to 337 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: the workprint, and you cut off what you don't need. 338 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: You never cut right close to what the number was 339 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: on the workprint. And this young woman had accidentally done that. 340 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: By the way, about fifty years later she contacted me. 341 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: I'm the person who did it, and I'm so sorry, 342 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: And I said, no, don't be sorry. You gave me 343 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: the greatest life in the world. If you hadn't just 344 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: cut that negative, I would never have met him. Oh 345 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: my god. So it's a miracle. So you so you 346 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: salvage Marty's a student student film, and what did you 347 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: make of him? Then? Well, it's a young so it's Marty. 348 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: It was in college, right, Well, all of us knew 349 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: from one particular student film call It's Not Just You Murray, 350 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: which is filled with incredible ideas that he had it. 351 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: It was very clear he had it. What was it 352 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: that he had? Storytelling on film? Pretty an idea of 353 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: startling ideas. For example, It's not just Hu Murray starts with, uh, 354 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: somebody's shoes and a hand comes into frame and he 355 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: encourages the camera to lift up to his face. It 356 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: was just, I mean, just unbelievable, great, great ideas. Uh So, 357 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: then what happened was a group of us got together 358 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: and we were making films for PBS Short Films UM, 359 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: covering Aretha Franklin concerts UM and helping fellow filmmakers finish 360 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: their films. And one of them was Marty's Who's That Knocking? 361 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: His first feature film, which he had shot part of 362 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: and had run out of money, and so we volunteered 363 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: our efforts to help him finish it. And then he 364 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: taught me how to edit on that movie. I knew 365 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: nothing about editing, nothing, so I was on the crew 366 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: as we were trying to help him finish it, and 367 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: we all did everything. We pushed the wheelchair that had 368 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: the cameraman in it because we didn't have dollars. Um 369 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: we ran sound. I would get lunch. I learned to 370 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: tie into power sources in the basement. People said to me, 371 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: bend your legs because if you get the jolt, you'll 372 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: fall down and it'll break the contact. So and I 373 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: drove the car with the cameraman on the front effort 374 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: on again for a tracking shot. It was great. It 375 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: was I think it was the Cone Brothers. I could 376 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: be wrong. I was reading an article about raising Arizona 377 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: and they they were saying how their improvisations with the 378 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: camera led to like certain names. They have thing called 379 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: the blankie can, and if you wanted the camera to 380 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: have the point of view of the dog that was 381 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: attacking you, they would lay the cinema targity operator on 382 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: a blanket and pull him across the lawn and he'd 383 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: be right on the heels of the victim. Came everybody 384 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: was doing them. I mean, now you know Napoleon, the 385 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: Great film by Abel Goaz, a silent film. He had 386 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: small cameras that he threw over the He had people 387 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: throw them over the wall of this fortress to give 388 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: the idea of what a cannonball would be like going 389 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: into a fortress. So it was the point of view 390 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: of of the cannonball. So people, you know, people were 391 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: inventing all of these things all along in film coming 392 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: up the one piece of work that Schoonmaker considers the 393 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: perfect film to hear another voice behind some of Hollywood's 394 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: biggest films. Check out my interview with former Walt Disney 395 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: CEO Michael Eisner. Today, he still prefers movie theaters to 396 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: a private screening room. I almost only go to the theater. 397 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: I go at least twice a week. And what do 398 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: you do? I often go at ten o'clock or midnight. 399 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: Uh can't drag my wife's out. Usually I'll go in 400 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: the afternoon. I can remember even being at ABC when 401 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: I was twenty seven years old and having a fight 402 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: with somebody and saying, you know what, I'm getting out 403 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: of here and go to Broadway and go to a movie. 404 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: Take a listen, and here's the thing, Dot Org. This 405 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing, 406 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: Initially studying to become an international diplomat. Algerian born film 407 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: of schoolmaker's life took an interesting turn in the late 408 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties when she met Martin Scorsese, then a sleep 409 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: deprived film student. The partnership changed her life, eventually leading 410 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: her to Michael Powell, a cinematic mastermind in his own right, 411 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: whom she'd marry. But before love came work with Marty, 412 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: as she called Scorsese, driving the train. He taught me 413 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: how to build a scene, how to when to use 414 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: close ups, when not to use close ups, um, how 415 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: to learn what's good acting, um, how to build rhythm 416 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: between two actors. Uh. He's never in a position where 417 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: the actress he's working with don't deliver what he wants. 418 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: He gets the actors he wants. He doesn't make the film. Yes, 419 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: he casts impeccably, but there are good and weaker performances, 420 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: you know. So one of my jobs is to make 421 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: sure we're using the very best, and you wean down 422 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: and wean down your technique to that as well. Avoid 423 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: close up some people you think are less truthful or 424 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: oh no, no, I mean usually you can always with him. 425 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: He knows he shoots until he gets what he needs. 426 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: He knows what he needs, particularly as an editor, he 427 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 1: knows what he needs less. The people are weak than 428 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: just other people dazzle you well, some yeah, I mean 429 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: some actors that take one. You know, other actors work 430 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: towards something. For example, Marty and DeNiro did fifteen takes 431 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: on the last scene in Raging Bull where DeNiro is 432 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: confronting himself as Jake la Matta in the mirror and 433 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: he's doing it on the waterfront speech. They wanted to 434 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: do fifteen takes because they were trying different ways of 435 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: him confronting himself actually forgiving himself. And I thought one 436 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: was more emotional. I like that, but Marty liked another 437 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: one that was colder and he so we screened it 438 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: two ways with friends of ours and he was right. 439 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: So that's the kind of thing. So it doesn't mean 440 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: Some actors like Daniel de Lewis or Cake Blanchet are 441 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: often like take one, that's it. They're come in so 442 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: prepared so they're living that part. Other actors like to 443 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: work towards it. Leo and and Bob like to work 444 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: towards something. With Marty, so um, it's a matter of 445 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: just trying to get the best and then seeing is 446 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: that working with what's the best and the other actor. 447 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: Maybe it's not so you have to change something. It's 448 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: a it's very difficult to describe editing you. You've made 449 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: that clear. Yeah, I mean, so one of the first 450 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: things you would have taught me is how not to 451 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: go to close ups too quickly, that two shots are 452 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: sometimes just as good. But that's a very simple thing. 453 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much that's about rhythm and pace 454 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: and um, letting it breathe. Oh yeah, let watching the 455 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: people fe you and go through it. Yeah. And Marty 456 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: wants people to, particularly with a film like Silence, which 457 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,959 Speaker 1: is so different from what's being done today. Um. He 458 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: wants people to engage with the movie and make up 459 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: their own mind about what they're seeing, not be told 460 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: what to think. He hates that one filmmakers tell you 461 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: what to think. A lot of that goes on today. 462 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: So one of the things he wanted in Silence was 463 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: to not have any score at all, because he felt 464 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: the score might be telling people what to think. Eventually, 465 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: we do have a very subliminal score which comes out 466 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: of cicadas and things, and there are a few times 467 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: where you hear a piece of music up front, but 468 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: normally you don't because he did not want to tell 469 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: them what to think. He wants them to feel it 470 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: and make up their own mind. And after people see Silence, 471 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: they say they talk about it for two weeks because 472 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: there's so many big questions that are raised there about 473 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: doubt and faith that um, it provokes that kind of thought, 474 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: which is what he wanted. That's all he wanted. The 475 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: movie opens Silence. It's very quiet, if you will. Nonetheless, 476 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: it's a sequence of torture. It's a sequence of Liam Neeson, 477 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, watching the said I want to ruin the 478 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: film for people. But something horrific is happening. And you've 479 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: edited some films that are these spectacularly violent films. Now 480 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: I've seen films that that are more graphic. I'm not 481 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: saying that they're graphic by any means. I've seen movies 482 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: that are far more graphic and f mo or less 483 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: effective as a result of it. Yeah, that's never been 484 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: an issue for you. It was it was every time 485 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: you sat there and said, my god, this is tough 486 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: to watch. Well, the thing is you see that we 487 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: create that violence in the editing room. There's no way 488 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: that DeNiro could take an actual punch all the times 489 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: you see it in in the film. When he was 490 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: being hit in the head, there was no hand in 491 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: the glove um and so his he was his head 492 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: was being nudged in blood and saliva would spray off it, 493 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: but he There's no way he could have taken all 494 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: that punishment. So our job is to make sure that 495 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: we make it look as if he took that hit. 496 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: It's not actually violent. When I get it, I make 497 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: it violent with Marty. I let me just say first 498 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: that I think Marty's use of violence is very uh 499 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: important because there is, as we know, living in this 500 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: particular time, tremendous violence around the world. And if you 501 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: think there isn't your your kidding yourself. If you can 502 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: show it properly without being gratuitous, and I don't think 503 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: he ever is, it's important that it be part of 504 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: the films he particularly makes. He grew up in a 505 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: very violent neighborhood. He grew up in a neighborhood where 506 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: the mafia would tell people take your children off the 507 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: street at three o'clock and and someone would be gunned 508 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: down on the street and the kids would go back 509 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: and play again. So he saw a lot of that. 510 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: It is something he grew up with and he understands 511 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: very deeply. But I must tell you that if you see, 512 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: for example, in Casino, Joe Pesci put somebody his head 513 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: and the vice with with the eye bulging right, that's 514 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: all takes an enormous amount of editing to make that believable. 515 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: Of course, that never really happens. But I do remember 516 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: we had one screening where it was I think Mike 517 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: Ovid's and two other people, somebody from the studio and 518 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: maybe Marty's agent, another agent, and Marty and I were 519 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: sitting behind them. They were all wearing blue suits, and 520 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: when that came up, the first shot of that eye 521 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: and the vice came up, Um, they all went, oh 522 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: my god, and their their arms went back in sync 523 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: over their heads. And Marty said to me, how many 524 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: more shots of this do we have? I said five, 525 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: and he went, oh it was so we cut that down. 526 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: But um, it's never violent when I get it. But 527 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: was there one sequence violence or no? Just in terms 528 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: of action, the pacing the intention. Give us an example 529 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: of a scene that was a particularly difficult one for 530 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: you to cut a real challenge. I think sometimes films 531 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: need to be restructured, and uh, for example, Departed needed 532 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: to be restructured. Even Kundoon we had to pull up 533 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: the Chinese invasion. It was taking too long. Um, So 534 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: they're the restructuring is sometimes very important in a movie. 535 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: But also Silence was very hard for me because to 536 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: get the right meditative pace without being born was was 537 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 1: very important. And it was very interesting to try and 538 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: incorporate the Japanese actor's style of acting with the westerners. So, uh, 539 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: they're they're all hard in different ways, but I can't 540 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: think of one that was really expensively. So you no, 541 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: particularly not the violence because Marty storyboards it very carefully, 542 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: so putting it together is not that hard. Making it 543 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: believable is hard. You know, when when somebody throws a punch, 544 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: they're actually missing the other actors chin by half an 545 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: inch so and the actor then snaps his head back 546 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: to make it look So you have to get the 547 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: right one of those. Sometimes he's not he's too far 548 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: away or whatever may is. It believable is something that's 549 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: part of my job. One of the things that that 550 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: is I wonder during the arch of his career is 551 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: how much producers and studios trying to interfere with the 552 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: movie he's making. So it remains that way, but he's 553 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: gained a great deal of control as the films go on. 554 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: But we do get notes from the producers or the studio, 555 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: more from the studio, actually not from the without naming names. 556 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: Is there anyone he ever takes their counselors or a 557 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: producer he's ever relied on for any information. Well, the 558 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: great thing about Marty is he will listen, but he 559 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: will not do anything that conflicts with what he thinks 560 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: is right. He will burn the film first, and I'm 561 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: not kidding of Ques. It's a little hard to burn 562 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: digital now, so it could be done. But but he will. 563 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen him take that stand. But what 564 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: happened is that he learned very early on to walk 565 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: the type role between art and commerce very cleverly, because 566 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: I think to a certain extent, you know, he said, 567 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: I grew up in a neighborhood where power was around 568 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: all the time, and I under stand it. I know 569 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: how to work it. Um, He's been in situations, I 570 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: think the taxi driver where he said he was going 571 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: to kill ahead of the studio. This is already documented 572 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: by the Philips who were the producers. But now what 573 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: he does is he knows how to talk them out 574 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: of it, or you know, I get the notes first, 575 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: and I only tell him anything I think that he 576 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: should hear, and he will listen. But he also is 577 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: able to defend his position extremely well, and I've seen 578 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: him do it over and over again. One time I 579 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: was with him and uh, it was a subject matter 580 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: that I've done some research on by myself, and he 581 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: thought I might be involved in this meeting, and somebody said, 582 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: you know what we should do. We should take the 583 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: plot of Gone with the Wind and inserted into this script. 584 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: And I was just about to walk out of the 585 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: room when I heard that, and Marty was brilliant. He said, well, 586 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: that's a very good idea, George, but I couldn't make 587 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: that movie, which was very kind. You know, he didn't. 588 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: He wasn't. However, I have seen him also when he'll 589 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: storm out, you know, just say it's your movie or mine. 590 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: You take it, you put your name on it, I'm 591 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: taking mine off. I've I've seen that happen several times. 592 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: I've also seen him do something wonderful, which is to 593 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: just wear them down by telling them long stories about 594 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: gang chiefs that he knew in his neighborhood. Um, there 595 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: was one particular time where we were in a room 596 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: whether your conditioning was very cold, no one had brought 597 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: water in, and everyone was getting hungry, was getting towards twelve, 598 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: and he was going on in these long stories about 599 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: crazy mafia guys, and finally he just wore They just 600 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: gave up. And his two agents were texting each other 601 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: and one of them said, where is he going with this? 602 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: But he knew what he was doing. No. You you 603 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: have been married to filmmaking and editing and your famous 604 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: counterpart for years and years and then you got married. 605 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: Tell us about where did you meet him? Well? Um, interestingly, 606 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: because I had seen Life and Death of Colonel Bloom 607 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: made by my husband Mike Paul when I was, you know, sixteen, 608 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: and it stayed in my head. When Marty started educating 609 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: me on Raging Bull, he started educating me about the 610 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,239 Speaker 1: films of palem Pressburger because he had just gone and 611 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: found Michael Powell living in poverty and really forgotten. Unbelievable 612 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: he was in England. Um. In this little cottage I 613 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: still own. UM. The British Film Institute was trying people 614 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: like Ian Christie, Kevin goff Yates and even bertrompt Vernier 615 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: and France were trying to revive the films. But Marty, 616 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: with his high profile, was able to bring Um Michael 617 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: to tell your ride re enter Peeping Tom into the 618 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: New York Film Festival and had never been properly distributed 619 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: here and just revived the whole cannon. So that was 620 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: going on then. It was it was a great miracle, UM. 621 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: But I saw Michael stand in front of audiences and 622 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: see his films come back to life. It was heaven. 623 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: I can't tell you. Marty was so dedicated to that, 624 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: so he was educating me. We were cutting Raging Bull 625 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: and Michael Powell came over to the Museum of Modern 626 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: Art did the first big retrospective on him in America. 627 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: Marty said to me, I want you to go to 628 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: the MoMA, not work, which was amazing. I go to 629 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: the moment and look at the life and death of 630 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: Colonel Blimp and Michael Powell was there and I went 631 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: up to him and I said, I'm Marty's editor. But 632 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: he was very distracted because I think he was thinking 633 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: about the great love of his life, Debra car who 634 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: was in that movie. That's when they fell in love 635 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: and then broke up after it. But then Marty said, 636 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: he's coming to dinner. Would you like to meet him 637 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: because you're so much in love with their movies now, 638 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: And I said yes, And well, when I met him, 639 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: I just fell in love with him immediately. He was 640 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: so astounding. I wish you'd met him. He was an 641 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: amazing human being, and he didn't talk much, but when 642 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: he said something, it was very interesting. And then he 643 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: came back after the dinner. I was cutting Raging Bull 644 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: in a bedroom in Marty's apartment where he was living 645 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: with Isabella Russellini. He had an extra bedroom and we 646 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: had film works in the bathtub in the adjoining bathroom. 647 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: My husband thought that was one of the funniest things. 648 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: He just roared when he saw that. So he came 649 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: back to talk to me and we started having lunch, 650 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: and then things developed and then we had to tell everybody. 651 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: So he came to live with me in New York 652 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: on King of Comedy Um and Isabella, Marty's wife at 653 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: the time, Isabella Rossellini, came and said to me, Selmam, 654 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: Michael should come live with us. There's no neason for 655 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: you to have to put him up in your hotel 656 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: room here. And I said, well, I don't think you 657 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: quite understand. I have to tell you we're actually living together. Oh, 658 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: Marty will be so thrilled. Well, Marty of course was 659 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: a bit stunned. Everybody was. I mean, there was thirty 660 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: years difference in us, but it didn't matter because Michael 661 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: had the heart of a sixteen year old. So we 662 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: had ten blissful years. But Marty, it was a shock 663 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: from Marty because he knew then that I would maybe 664 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: at certain times want to go home and cook dinner 665 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: from Michael, the man in your life. But the director, 666 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: he loved having Michael with us, and it was such 667 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: a wonderful friendship to watch. I can't tell you, uh, 668 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: and Michael had a great influence on on our movie. 669 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: Did your relationship wind up costing you any editing assignments 670 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: with Marty? Did you ever miss any job you've You've 671 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: edited every one of Marty's movies. No, so. Um we 672 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: made Woodstock and Marty left Woodstock early and went to 673 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: bust In in Hollywood, and Um, we finished woodstock the 674 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: mix of woodstock out there, but we were not appreciated 675 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: by the unions and they didn't like the fact that 676 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: New Yorkers because we were two separate editing unions at 677 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: that point and they didn't like us being there. And 678 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: then Marty wanted me to work with him, but I 679 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: the union said no because she's not in our union, 680 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: and she's going to have to start as an apprentice 681 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: for five years and then five years as an assistant 682 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: and then she'll be allowed to just been nominated for 683 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: woodstock for an oscar. So I said, I'm not going 684 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: to do it. So he couldn't work with me until 685 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: Raging Bull, when Erwin Winkler, the producer, got me in 686 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: the union. So those films prior to Raging Bull were 687 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: that's where they were. Boxcar, Bertha, Main Streets Alice, New York, 688 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: New York and Taxi Driver. I didn't cut any of 689 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: those movies. Who cut Taxi Driver? Marsha Lucas. The three 690 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: editors were actually working with him. Them. Marsha Lucas, who 691 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: is George Lucas's wife was at the time um so 692 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: he had he was working with multiple editors and sometimes 693 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: editors who did not want the director in the editing room. 694 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: That's why he wanted to work with me again, because 695 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: he felt that. So that's was the impetus of your marriage, 696 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: if you will, with the two of you, yes, because 697 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: he wanted you around. What happened is that he felt 698 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: that from the very beginning that I would be a 699 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: collaborator and I wouldn't be ego. Battles over who's got 700 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: the right idea about this cut or not, which who 701 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: knows more about editing often happens between directors and editors, 702 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: and that's very bad for a movie when that when 703 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: they're fighting or and you made very few movies with 704 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: other attractors, You've only made a couple of correct Allison Andrews, 705 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: you in a movie. Yes, at Marty's request, he was 706 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: executive producing it. So I helped with that. But then 707 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: on Raging Bull, I was allowed to come back as 708 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: long as there was a stand by editor on both coasts. 709 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: But still they terrorized us out there. If we were mixing, 710 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: say until twelve o'clock at night, they would turn on 711 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: the lights of our cars and the radio so that 712 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: our batteries would be dead when we came up that 713 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: went on all the time. We had to get a 714 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: bodyguard from Marty actually um and things like Raging bullshit 715 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: on the squirrel down the walls. But finally that ended 716 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: and now we're all one local, one happy local, and 717 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: there's no problems like that anymore. Well, two things. One 718 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: is roles for women in Marty's films. I mean, women 719 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: have their place in Marty's films because they're you know, 720 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: men are their protagonists and the women like in Raging 721 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: Bull or Casino. And then you see a movie like 722 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: Age of Innocence where he's got a female lead in 723 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: the film and one of the biggest stars of her day. 724 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: Was it different for him to direct women or to 725 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: develop roles for women in his films. I didn't sense that. 726 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: I kind of like the women in those films. I mean, 727 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: I think Cathy Moriarity is wonderful and Raging Bull went 728 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: on a writer, is absolutely stunning in Age of Instance, 729 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: And I don't have a problem with the women. I 730 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: am a problem with him. Yeah, he hasn't made a 731 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: lot of films with female leads when I mean, and 732 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: that's maybe that's not his his daily I guess not. 733 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: That's okay now, The last thing I want to ask 734 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: you is there's so many facets to filmmaking. There's so 735 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: many elements to filmmaking. Not just the things that are 736 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: camera centric, you know, like the like the lighting and 737 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: the cutting and everything, but there's wardrobes and sets and 738 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: actors and editing and pacing and stuff where there's so 739 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: much that goes into it. What's a film that comes 740 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: to mind of his when you think about that, all 741 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: those aspects of filmmaking come together in your mind and 742 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,240 Speaker 1: just the sets and then everything, and it's that painting. 743 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: It's art. I always say it's very hard because as 744 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: I hate to have to pick one and I love 745 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: them all for different reasons. But because working on Reagon 746 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: Bull was my first major feature film on a on 747 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: a big Hollywood set, I didn't even know how to 748 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm location, I didn't know how to behave UM. Fortunately, 749 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: I had an assistant and I used to put my 750 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: own trims away. Now I have three assistants, and it 751 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: was weird. Marty said, don't worry, I'll help you through it. 752 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: Don't worry. But for me, that movie was so astounding. 753 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: When I saw the dailies, I just couldn't take my 754 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 1: eyes off to narrow. It was such brilliant direction, such 755 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: brilliant cinematography, the black and white cinematography, such brilliant acting, 756 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: and improvisation. I love improvisation. It's very hard to cut, 757 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: but I love it. And the challenge that that de 758 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: Niro and Paschi gave me was amazing. It was the music, 759 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: the use of music, the power, the strength of the 760 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: movie all over it made it the one that I 761 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: think is actually the perfect film. And I screened it recently. 762 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: I go to Seattle onto the Seattle Art Muse him 763 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: a lot to do, show Michael Powell Films and um 764 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: that we screened a really good print from the Academy 765 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: of Film print of Raging Bill, and I could not 766 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: get over it was burned into the screen. It was 767 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: just one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. 768 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 1: So I have to say that that is overall the 769 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: one that I think. Everything just clicked together in an 770 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,320 Speaker 1: amazing way. Do you know that for me, the memories 771 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: of Marty are all the things you say, that opening 772 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: title sequence, the horror of him going into the jail 773 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: cell and punching the wall. That's so it's so you 774 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: know that that that that man. He was. He was 775 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: like a sick animal. And I've known people like that. 776 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: But my other favorite moment, because it's so opaque and 777 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: it's so brilliantly weird, is that moment when de Niro 778 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: tries to brush Lorraine down into that building. He's down there, 779 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: it's down there. We go go on in there. Nothing's 780 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: on the money, nothing said. That gesture, that hand gesture 781 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: is just well, he's He's just amazing, you know. I. 782 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I could just look at that film over 783 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: and over again and never get tired of it. It's 784 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 1: it's because to watch him when he's questioning his brother, 785 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, about his wife. Oh my god, I mean 786 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: the way Bob, what he did with his face there 787 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: is just astounding. Uh. You know, nobody improvises like Bob 788 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: and Joe Peschi together. They kick each other off in 789 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: the most amazing ways that I love it. It's hard, 790 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: but it's like putting a puzzle together, you know, And 791 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: I love that. In a recent interview with The l A. Times, 792 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: Scorsese he equated his and Thelma schoolmakers editing to a 793 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,879 Speaker 1: process so singular that it's quote almost like making home 794 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: movies unquote Lucky for us, they decided to share. This 795 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.