WEBVTT - Creaturekringletimes: Staying Warm! 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:08.119 Oky do keep. Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.840 I'm your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:16.200 psychology and evolutionary biology. And wow, it is cold out there. 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.639 It is chilly. We like to snuggle and sweaters. I 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.000 have a cold right now, so I am in a 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.880 big fluffy sweater. I've been huddling under the blankets drinking tea. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.960 But you know what, what do animals do to stay 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.880 warm in the winter. We're talking from the tiny bee 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.599 to bigger animals, ones that are no longer around. The 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.440 most wonderful thing of the year, which is round birds. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.639 Why are they so round? So we're going to talk 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.599 about all the ways in which animals stay warm in 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.400 the winter. Discover this and more as we answer the 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.720 angel question do you want to be in a bee 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.240 mosh pit? Joining me today is co host of Daniel 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.840 and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, adjunct professor of biology at Rice University, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.640 and co author of A City on Mars, Kelly Wiedersmith. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.679 Welcome, Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:09.120 to be here. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.920 So where where are you Rice University? 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.840 Where is that? So that's in Houston? Texas, but I 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.640 actually live in Charlottesville, Virginia. Oh okay, yeah, and it's 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.120 pretty warm here, but it was really cold the other day. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.240 Like as soon as it's below freezing, I'm like, no. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.240 Yeah, yeah, I have heard that, Like, I mean they've 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.480 they've there have been some wild weather in Houston, because 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.640 usually it's pretty mild and then you get these like 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.920 incredible cold snaps. So so Charlottesville is getting pretty cold, 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:37.840 I would imagine. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.280 Yeah, yeah, it's getting pretty cold. It's it's a time 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:41.520 of year where you go out to take care of 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.680 the animals and you gotta dump the ice out of 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.640 the bucket first, which is in the rear end. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.880 Oh you got you got outdoor animals. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.680 Yeah, we got some chickens. We're looking into goats. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:55.440 Oh, you're you're sort of exploring the goats. You're setting 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.600 up an exploratory committee to sort of see your options 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.040 fees of goats. I get that. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.760 We've been visiting the local farms. We're trying to find 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.240 out which ones are most likely to like ram into 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:07.520 you and knock your kids over. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.440 And you get those and you get those ones. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.000 They're the funniest. Yeah, So I mean it seems like 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:13.560 a good option. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.600 That's fantastic. Yeah, I am. I'm lucky enough to only 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.880 have indoor animals, and they all seek me out for warmth. No, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.640 it's not about love, it's not about affection. It's about wow, 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.080 your lap is warm, let us join you. Particularly the cats. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.079 I think the dog is kind of like, she likes 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.720 to cuddle, she likes to get cozy. For the cats, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:39.160 they see me as a warm object to heat them 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:39.919 throughout the winter. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.200 And you know what, I'm fine with that, Like, it's 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.680 totally cd with being a warm lap. As long as 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.800 I get animal snuggles, I'm hotly on board. 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.840 It warms my lap as well. So we're we're both 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.000 we're working together, we're getting we're scratching each other's back, 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.400 sometimes a little too literally. So yeah, today we are 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.080 talking about how animals stay warm in the winter, and 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.679 these are animals where when you think about it, it's 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.080 I mean, with some of them it makes a little 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.919 more sense, but with some of them it's it's kind 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.919 of a question of like, wait, how do these guys 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.040 survive winter? And one of the ones that always comes 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.680 to mind is like insects, right, because they're so fragile 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.079 and they're so it's like, man, these guys, it does 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.560 not seem like they would do very well in the winter, 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.000 particularly some of the cutest insects, my favorite ones, uh 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.600 European honey bees. When I think of honey bees, they 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.920 just they do not It's not even with bumble bees, right, 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.360 I think, like, well, maybe bumble bees have a chance. Right, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.320 they're chunky, they've got that little striped sweater, but with 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.920 like a with a sweet little honey bee and thing, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.200 what's going on with you? You're gonna be a little honeysickle. 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.600 Well they can like so I was reading about how 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.640 honey is made the other day and it was made 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.560 in like a way grosser way than I had realized. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.880 And I still love honey Like it involves throwing things 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.480 up and increasing the surface area. Yeah yeah, but I 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.120 think part of how they do it is they like 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.560 generate heat by like in their wings really fast, right 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.600 to absolutely, and that's got to help them in the winter, 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:05.400 maybe I'm. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.280 Guessing, yes, absolutely, so this is exactly right. This is 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.720 something that you can also read more about if you 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.120 want to, in the book Piping hot Bees and Boisterous 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:20.760 buzz Runners, which is a great title by Thomas D. Seely. So, Yeah, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.080 bees do have a remarkable ability to jiggle and wiggle 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.320 their bodies, and they do so many things with those 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.880 sorts of muscle vibrations, those undulations, they communicate, they can 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.520 ward off threats. European honeybees may not be so adept 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.719 at this, but there are species of Asian bees that 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:42.120 are able to to vibrate in order to actually boil 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:47.000 intruders alive. They reach such yeah, they reach such high temperatures. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.159 It's a strategy against the predator. The the do you 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.960 remember that whole scare we had about the killer giant 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:59.560 killer Asian hornets. Yeah, like in their in their natural habitats, right, 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.400 there are bees that have co evolved with them, and 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.320 they've learned this strategy of like vibrating, the creating this 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.600 bee ball and then vibrating and basically boiling this intruder alive. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.839 And the reason that these hornets are so dangerous to 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:15.760 bees in the US is just that these bees haven't 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.800 co evolved with them, so they don't have that strategy. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.880 But European honey bees do have a great strategy to 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.400 survive in the winter, and that is to huddle together 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:32.240 and to vibrate for warmth, so a swarm will form 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.400 around the queen and undulate their wing muscles to generate warmth. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.480 So the queen is she's a lucky gal. She gets 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.720 to be right in the center, so she's in the 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:47.080 warmest spot to keep being kept toasted, which serves a purpose. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:51.520 It's not just about paying leeves to their highness. Because 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.560 she has to bear young, her body is the most 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.240 vulnerable to winter stress, so keeping her really nice and 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.200 warm and toast is helping to ensure the survival of 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.919 the brood. But yeah, even the workers though. This is 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.520 something that's interesting is that the workers on the outermost 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.920 fringe they still generally survive this and they reach up 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.600 to temperatures of around fifty degrees fahrenheit. So that's not bad. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:20.960 That's really not bad. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.200 Do they have a rotation system where like the outside 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:25.960 ones get to go to the I mean, not as 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.000 inside as the queen, but like a little bit inside 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.640 every once in a while they do. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.200 It's not as much of an organized like let's make 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.680 sure that everyone gets a chance in the center. A 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.560 lot of it's going to be depend on the current 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.520 roles of the worker bees. So worker bees are basically 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.680 for a lot of like these sort of use social honeybees. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.920 Species like the worker bees will as they grow they 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.159 kind of take on different roles throughout their lives. So 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.640 there may be some that are more likely to be 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.320 tending to the queen right, and so they're going to 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.640 be closer to the center. But there are these sort 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.080 of fluctuations in terms of like how dense and how 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.679 crowded together they are, so as the temperature changes, they 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.920 change how closely knit they are or how spread out 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.880 they are. And they also alternate like how intense their 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.360 wing beats are, so they dynamically respond to temperature changes 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.440 in order to keep pretty much everyone warm at a 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.240 reasonable temperature, but especially keeping that queen safe and warm 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.480 because she is the most vulnerable in terms of she 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:42.160 has the highest sort of energy caloric requirements of all 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:43.560 of the bees. Got it. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:44.800 I thought it was going to be like if you're 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:46.720 on the end, that's sort of the colonies way of 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.280 saying sorry, Joe, you're moving towards being expendable, or that 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:51.800 they're all girls at that stage. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.920 They are all girls, yes, so there may be a 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.560 few there may there may be a few male drones 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.840 in the hive, and male drones do sometimes. Actually, you know, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:05.200 this is one case in which males are useful. Sorry guys, 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.920 the one case they do actually help warm hives in 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.720 the winter by vibrating their body. So there will be 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.400 a few males, but it is the gender dynamic is 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.880 very skewed, heavily female worker. So yeah, they it is 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.680 together they can warm this whole hive. They all pretty 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.520 much are able to survive this unless they are in 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:33.000 some kind of incredibly extreme cold snap. They also, in 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.559 preparation for the winter, will cluck pounds and pounds and pounds, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.920 tens of pounds of honey so that they can survive 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.800 over the winter. Is classic chipmunk strategy, right, Like, they're 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:45.480 not necessarily going to be getting a lot of nectar, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.080 not going to be able to produce a lot of honey. 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.760 So right before winter they gear up, they store a 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.959 bunch of honey, and then they're they're set for the winter, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.000 and so all they need to really focus on is 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.200 staying warm and consuming calories, which is what I. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.480 Yeah, a lot more ice cream lately. I get it. 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:02.559 I'm prepared too. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.240 Now exactly, I just I do. I do love that 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:13.520 essentially the bee's strategy is uh, strategic cuddling, which I do, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.440 you know, it's it's I it does feel like you know, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.120 we often will see say like the bee as this 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.240 very robotic kind of it is part of the strict society. 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.840 It's like a tiny robot. But they do strategic cuddling. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:29.200 So that's pretty pretty great. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.840 But it's not. It's like high movement cuddling like I 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.320 feel like when I snuggle with my kids at night. Yeah, 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.920 they just like will not stop rotating and moving around. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.040 And now, instead of being frustrated, I'm gonna be like, oh, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:40.080 they're trying to keep me warm. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.160 They're they're keeping the queen warm. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.559 That's right, exactly, Yes, I'll thank them instead of feeling 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:46.439 a little frustrated. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.360 So, you know what, you did mention this idea that 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.839 maybe the ones on the like outer perimeter, the ones 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:53.600 that don't get as warm, maybe they're sort of on 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.280 the fringes of society. It's a very interesting idea, and 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.960 that does come into play when we talk about snow monkeys. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.200 So you have have you seen and or heard of 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.199 snow monkeys? I'm fairly certain you must have seen at 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.840 some point these adorable little guys. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.800 Are are they the ones that also go in the 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:11.760 like hot springs? 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:17.360 Yes, yes, absolutely, they are Japanese macaques. Technically we call 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.800 them snow monkeys because a lot of them. They live 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.360 all over Japan and various habitats, but often they do 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.120 live in areas where during the winter it gets cold 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.360 and it snows, and they are very famous for this 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.880 hot springs habit which is mostly in the Jigoku Dani 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.760 Monkey Park in Japan, and they have these They have 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.840 both naturally occurring as and also man made hot springs. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.840 They actually made an entire hot spring just for these monkeys. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.240 And yes, because the monkeys were had already figured out 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.360 how to use hot springs. It's like, look, we got 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:51.520 to make a monkey hot spring. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.000 So okay, people, I'm torn between thinking like, oh, I'd 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.200 love to go visit and jump in the hot springs 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.720 with the monkeys. But one probably about because the monkeys 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.360 don't want you there too. They're probably pooping in that water, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:04.000 aren't they. 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.040 They are, So number two is most definitely like probably 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.079 correct number one. Actually, people do go and visit. Now, 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.000 you're not going to want to be in the water 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.240 with the monkeys, right, but people do go and visit 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:20.680 them to simply watch them admire them, and they actually 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.760 tolerate human visitors pretty well, which is rather surprising. But 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.640 it seems that there's perhaps like a culture there of 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.800 giving the monkeys some space, so they've learned to tolerate 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.400 human visitors. So and interestingly, it's not like these monkeys 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.080 are just completely chill, sort of like Cappy barras where 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.040 it's like, yeah, you get it, why kaby bars let 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.880 you watch them? Because kabby bars just are completely chill. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.040 Some monkeys as cute as they are, as adorable as 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.840 this Spa habit is, they do have a very strict 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:54.880 social hierarchy, so they have a matrilineal dominance hierarchy. It 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.839 is a system in which you will have a matriarch 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.840 who is the dominant female who basically controls a territory 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.200 a group of females and males are a little more fluid, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.280 so males will have their own dominance hierarchy, but it's 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.520 much more fluid. It's much more changeable because the males, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.280 once they reach a certain age, they have to go 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.880 out and disperse to another group. So what happens is 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.280 you have this solid core of females with a hierarchy 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.720 that stays relatively stable, and you have males who come 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.480 and go and they kind of form a little bit 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.560 of a looser knit hierarchy, but there's still usually like 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.120 a dominant male. But yeah, that female power structure is 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.480 much more I would say institutional. It's like a monkey institution. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.320 And you will have sometimes the daughter will take over 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.560 the family business and become the matriarch, but that doesn't 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.960 always happen. You might have a young upstart who comes 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.520 up and then becomes the new monkey matriarch. There was 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.240 a recent shakeup where there was a one of these 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.040 young monkeys before her mom even retires, she took over. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.960 She took the company away from her mother. And yeah, family, 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.920 it's just it's like that one show had cheered in 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.520 cocaine in it. What was that? You know what I'm 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:13.920 talking about? Business? 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.160 I don't think I don't family too close. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:22.120 Yeah, sad angry business people show is what I'm calling it. Succession, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.400 that's it. That's the one. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:24.880 Yeah, I haven't seen that. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.640 I'm not good at TV. I haven't seen it either. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.440 I just know I watched a couple episodes and it's like, yeah, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.800 it's a sad, angry, rich family show. Not really interested, 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.640 but I get it. It's it's television. But anyways, if 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.280 that was done but with snow monkeys, I would absolutely 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.600 watch it. Oh absolutely, So yeah, so these females form 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.880 these stable matrilineal groups. Uh, and they have this rigorous 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:52.640 dominant structure and this also comes into play for spa time. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:58.120 So yeah, so the the dominant female and her immediate 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.480 can get priority when it comes to the hot springs 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.559 if you have curried favor with her, perhaps like you're 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:09.160 a male that she's mating with. They don't form lifelong 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.360 monogamous pair bonds, but they do form like seasonal monogamy, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.880 so they'll for a mating season at a time, maybe 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:21.040 formal paaramond. But she will groom others. She teaches her 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.720 daughters how to groom, so like mothers will teach their 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.800 daughters these grooming techniques and they groom each other. But 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.560 it's very clique. These are kind of this is like 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.960 a high school click that lasts their entire lives. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.680 This would be great as a reality TV show. I 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.560 think they'd have a really easy time with it. And 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.000 so is like if you're on top, does that mean 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.800 that you get the like warmest spot or you stay 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.120 in for longer, Like what do you get if you're 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:48.320 the queen of this group? 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.960 Yes, all of the above. So there is limited space 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.360 in these hot springs. And so if you're the dominant 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.720 female and that dominant female's family and the dominant females friends, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.080 you do get access to the hot springs more often, 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.240 you get the premium spots, and you also may get 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.480 the only spots. So sometimes if you are kind of 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.200 on the periphery of society, you are the proletariat, the 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:20.960 monkey proletariat, you don't actually get that spa time. And yeah, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:22.920 so it is it is not. This is not a 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:29.160 utopian monkey society. Unfortunately, not everyone is treated equally. These 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:30.120 other monkeys. 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.720 Do they die sometimes if they don't get their spot 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.200 in the water, do they freez. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.480 So they it is less good for them. So there's 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.840 actual health benefits for these these hot springs. There have 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.800 been studies on the monkey poop, because you always gotta 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.840 do the monkey poop, but when they want to Whenever 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.960 you see a study that's like about stress hormones and 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.360 wild animals, nine out of ten times it's going to 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.920 be that scientists are picking through poop looking for a 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:55.960 stress hormones. 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.400 So informative that poop. There's parasites in there too. There's 0:15:58.440 --> 0:15:59.280 so much you can learn. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.360 There's so much you can learn. In fact, in zoos, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.960 sometimes they will do color coding for poop, maybe put 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.920 like glitter or some kind of color in the poop 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.440 so that like something that's harmless to the animal, so 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.640 that when they are trying to test various like you 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.880 know this, here's this group and this group that we're 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.520 doing various things like with research or medical studies in 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.960 terms of like in terms of the animal's health, like 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:23.920 like usually for zoos, it'll be like, we have to 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.640 treat this giraffe for this stomach issue, so we're also 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.160 going to test their poop, because why not, We're already 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.440 we're already dealing with giraffe diarrhea. You might as well 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.360 make giraffe diarrhea made out of giraffe diarrhea. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.160 Yeah, sure, I mean I would definitely want the glitter 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.320 poop if they were like, yes, you know what, except 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:44.920 but I think if you're doing like a fecal float, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.360 you're trying to find the like parasite eggs. I would 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.520 get really annoyed with all of the glitter, like in. 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:55.480 The cunder your microscope blinding out. So yeah, So they 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.640 looked at the feces of these monkeys and they found 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.000 lower amounts of stress hormones stress proteins that indicate that 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.480 these baths do have a material benefit for them in 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.560 terms of lowering stress. I read this very interesting summary 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.719 of it where it was saying that, well, the alpha female, 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:17.080 who has the hardest job thus needs this more than 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.160 the lower ranking females, And it's like, is that why? 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.720 I feel like that was written by the alpha female? 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.800 Like this this study summary was like written by the 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.560 alpha female, Like yeah, I need it because I boss 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.760 bay way too hard, so I'm always stressed, so I 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:35.000 need it. I need it. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.480 The CEOs who are like, oh, sor I need five 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.000 times the pay that you get, Yeah, just exactly how 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.639 else am I going to make this job worth it? Exactly? 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.240 How do you tease a part Like you know, if 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.240 you are at the top of the hierarchy, or you 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.399 are your hormones low because you get more time in 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.439 the hot tub, or is it low because you know 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.600 that you're in a good position and someone's cleaning off 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.399 your parasites. You don't have to stress out about that. 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.560 It seems like it would be hard to disentangle time 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.600 in the tub from all the other benefits of being 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:03.159 at the top of the hierarchy. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.000 That's a very good question. These are often issues with 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.120 observational studies in animals because it's really hard, like especially 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.119 so you have wild animals, you can't necessarily do a 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.440 control group. So these are like observational studies. I believe 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.000 what they did was they sort of tried to track 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.840 it with the amount of observable time that a monkey 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.840 is spent in the hot springs. Now that doesn't completely 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.560 satisfy your study design question because a monkey who's in 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.840 the spaw war you're right, maybe actually getting more access 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.119 to grooming as well. So that's a tricky thing to 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.639 tease apart. I think that they tried to, you know, essentially, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.720 they tried to separate observations of like grooming from like 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.600 spa time and tried to make that separation. But it's 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.960 true that those are confounding factors, and it's one of 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:54.159 the difficulties with these studies that look into the natural 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.679 behaviors of animals. But then if you try to do 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.760 a controlled study in a laboratory environment, you have sort 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.000 of another problem, which is that these are this is 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.320 not capturing natural behavior. You're capturing the behavior of an 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.959 animal in a lab. So it can be a little tricky. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.960 Sometimes ecology use a huge pain in the ass's but 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.400 it's fascinating, but a real pain, very. 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:20.159 Interesting, very much a pain. But yeah, they absolutely do 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.320 seem to at the very least really enjoy these hot springs. 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.280 It does warm them up. Your earlier question was like, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.040 could these other monkeys freeze to death? They could. They 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:36.520 do also have really fluffy, furry coats, so those also 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.800 keep them warm. Generally speaking, just because they're missing out 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.280 on spa time doesn't necessarily doom them to die. But 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.840 in a really harsh winter where resources are really scarce, 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.000 if the temperatures drop way too low, they don't have 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.000 enough food, yeah, that could absolutely make the difference, right, 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.320 And that's sort of the that is the tricky part 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.040 of this evolution where you have the this incentive for 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.200 these this alpha structure of like we want to pass 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.320 on our genes, we want to give our offspring the 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.480 best opportunities, so it's sort of this dominance hierarchy. And 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.280 it's so interesting when you see it in animals who 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.840 are not you social right, so u sociality. You have 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:23.600 this like basically physiological hierarchy that is enforced genetically and physically, 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.320 and you see it in bees. You actually also see 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.840 it in animals like meerkats. But this is kind of 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.480 this is not quite you sociality you have it. It 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.480 goes from the that one extreme of like bees, where 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.439 you have like a queen and you have workers and 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:44.760 you have this like genetically enforced social hierarchy with these 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.080 well defined roles, to something a little more flexible, so 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.520 like a young, upstart monkey can take over the troop 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.720 and kick out the dominant. It's just a lot harder 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.080 when you don't have the resources, when you essentially grow 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.000 up poor as a monkey, and you don't get as 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:02.600 much food and you don't get as much time in 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.840 the spa. You know, monkey inequality. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.479 Yeah, yeah, not cool. Not cool. So there was a 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.600 I seem to remember a long time ago, like Jane 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.480 Goodall got a little bit of flack for putting out 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.919