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Speaker 1: Every day there's a battle for your mind, raging information

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Speaker 1: coming from every angle.

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Speaker 2: With the will to the sieve fear not, you.

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Speaker 1: Found the place for truth, the voice of a generation

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Speaker 1: that still has the will to believe in the greatest

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Speaker 1: country in the history of the world. This is the

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Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk Show.

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Speaker 3: Fuck a lot, here we go.

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Speaker 4: All right, everybody, welcome to this special long form interview

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Speaker 4: with Kelly Shackelford, who's the president and CEO of First

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Speaker 4: Liberty Institute. That's Firstliberty dot Org. Kelly, you were a

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Speaker 4: really close friend to Charlie's. You've been on this show

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Speaker 4: many times, and it's an honor to have you in

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Speaker 4: the studio because oftentimes we'd have you and it would

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Speaker 4: be breaking news about something that was going on with

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court or some case that you were working

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Speaker 4: that you know, our audience needed to know about. You're

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Speaker 4: here on campus at Turning Point, USA, you're visiting, and

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Speaker 4: you're you're you're supporting the mission that the organization that

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Speaker 4: Charlie built and this legacy that we're all trying to

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Speaker 4: move forward, and I just want to say welcome.

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Speaker 3: It's an honor to have.

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Speaker 4: You, and we're we're grateful for you continuing this mission

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Speaker 4: with us.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's a it's a privilege to be a part.

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Speaker 5: I've been so proud of what you guys have done

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Speaker 5: since the tragedy, the assassination, and uh, you know, I

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Speaker 5: look back at Charlie and I probably text or talk

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Speaker 5: maybe once a month or so, and I just was

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Speaker 5: looking back at some of them and like there was

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Speaker 5: one that was like, you did it, you won, And

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Speaker 5: I was like, what was this and it was a

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Speaker 5: big Supreme Court case, and uh, just nobody there will

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Speaker 5: never be anybody like Charlie Kirk. He's once in a

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Speaker 5: generation and maybe once and more than that, and an

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Speaker 5: incredible loss. And I'm I still get sad as I

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Speaker 5: think things, but I know he would be so proud

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Speaker 5: of what is happening and what you guys are doing

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Speaker 5: and what the Lord is doing with this horrible tragedy.

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Speaker 5: And so kudos to you guys for carrying on the

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Speaker 5: mission in an incredible way.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, thank you for saying that. And you

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Speaker 4: are in a very small group of people that Charlie

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Speaker 4: would look to for legal advice and especially understanding the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court religious liberty, and you know, you have a

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Speaker 4: long history with this show. We haven't had you on

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Speaker 4: for a while, and I was like, Kelly, we gotta,

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Speaker 4: we gotta, we gotta do this. And so I'm glad

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Speaker 4: we have the time in the schedule and you're you're

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Speaker 4: h and by the way, thank you.

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Speaker 3: For those things, those kind words.

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Speaker 4: I mean, uh, we're doing our best here, you know,

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Speaker 4: And but we have a sacred duty we really do

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Speaker 4: to continue on. I never wanted to be a public figure.

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Speaker 4: I never had any desire to be. This was sort

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Speaker 4: of thrust on all of us, and for Mikey and Blake,

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Speaker 4: I mean, all of us are just kind of trying

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Speaker 4: our best to keep the flame of liberty burn. And

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Speaker 4: I mean that's what you're doing though, And so you know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes our mission in life and our calling in life

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Speaker 4: is thrust upon us, and sometimes we just have to say, yes,

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Speaker 4: Lord here I am, send me. And so I think

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Speaker 4: that's kind of what we're all doing because we love

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Speaker 4: this country and we love what the Lord is doing

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Speaker 4: right now. We love the outpouring of this revival that's happening.

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Speaker 4: Bible sales spiking, two POSA, faith is growing, our campus

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Speaker 4: programming is growing like leaps and bounds. So there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of good things happening.

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Speaker 3: And you said something when we were meeting before this

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Speaker 3: that it.

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Speaker 4: Really took you know, it took me by surprise and

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Speaker 4: caught my attention. And that is that you make the

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Speaker 4: statement that there is more religious liberty in this country

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Speaker 4: than at any other time in our nation's history.

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Speaker 3: Explain what you mean by that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, everybody alive right now has more religious freedom than

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Speaker 5: they've ever had in their life, and that's because of

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Speaker 5: the recent decisions. And let me give a little feel

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Speaker 5: for how unusual this is. Typically there's about seven thousand

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Speaker 5: requests of the Supreme Court to take your case. They

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Speaker 5: took fifty six last year. So if three or four

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Speaker 5: years ago our goal had been for them to take

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Speaker 5: one of our cases, that would be a pretty heady goal. Right. Well,

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Speaker 5: they didn't take one, they didn't take three. Two, they

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Speaker 5: didn't take three. They we won four religious liberty cases

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Speaker 5: in thirteen months, and three of these were I would

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Speaker 5: call landmark, like shifting fifty years of case law. And

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Speaker 5: so the Carson case, which was Idle Maine, where they

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Speaker 5: said and Charlie, we talked about these, by the way

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Speaker 5: at the time, but you just don't put all this together.

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Speaker 5: For one hundred and thirty years, they've said parents, you

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Speaker 5: get to pick whatever school you want, public or private,

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Speaker 5: because most of the school districts don't have public schools.

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Speaker 5: Just take your voucher money and go right. And then

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Speaker 5: they decided to make one change, but you can't pick

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Speaker 5: your religious schools. And Supreme Court said six to three

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Speaker 5: unconsciouscighted that original the legislature. They got advice, Yeah, they

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Speaker 5: got advice from their attorney. It's like twenty something years

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Speaker 5: ago that oh, this is violate separation church and state.

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Speaker 5: If you treat the Christian people the same, you should

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Speaker 5: do everybody well.

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Speaker 4: And that was a huge landmark because now you could

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Speaker 4: take voucher, you can take that to any Christian Catholic school.

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Speaker 5: Yes, every What this means is every school choice program

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Speaker 5: in the country now and everyone in the future. So

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Speaker 5: think about since then, Texas has now just passed a

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Speaker 5: school choice program. From now on, you can never tell

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Speaker 5: a parent that they can't pick the religious the Christian school.

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Speaker 3: That's huge.

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Speaker 5: That's going to really impact a lot of kids, a

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Speaker 5: lot of education. I mean, eighty five percent of the

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Speaker 5: private schools or religious schools. Yeah, of course, so this

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Speaker 5: is huge. So that was victory number one. Victory number

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Speaker 5: two was a case on religious freedom in the workplace,

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Speaker 5: and there what happened is we had a client who

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Speaker 5: was he came off the mission field and wanted to

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Speaker 5: work somewhere we didn't have to work on the Sabbath,

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Speaker 5: strong beliefs on that. So he went to work for

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Speaker 5: the US Postal Service and that worked fine for two

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Speaker 5: years until Amazon started delivering on Sunday and all of

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Speaker 5: a sudden, you know, they said, look, we were going

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Speaker 5: to have to force you to work on Sunday. And

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Speaker 5: he said, I'll work double ships. I do whatelse, But

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Speaker 5: I can't do that. You need to accommodate my schedule. Well,

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Speaker 5: there's a strong law protecting religious freedom in the workplace.

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Speaker 5: But forty seven years ago, in a very dishonest case,

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court reinterpreted all the words to make it meaningless,

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Speaker 5: and so the Postal Service knew they could just cut

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Speaker 5: him loose. So we went to the Supreme Court. We

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Speaker 5: did something a little different than we would normally do there.

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Speaker 5: We said to the court, this decision from forty seven

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Speaker 5: years ago was a lie then and it's a lie.

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Speaker 5: Now you know that this is not what these words mean.

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Speaker 5: The court ruled nine zero in our favor and restored

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Speaker 5: that standard of religious freeas.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you have other cases here that I want

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Speaker 4: to get to because you have been you. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you are the pre eminent group working on religious liberty,

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Speaker 4: and beyond that, you're just a legal scholar and an

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Speaker 4: expert on this stuff, and we will continue to consult

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Speaker 4: you as these cases come up. But I want to

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Speaker 4: dive in a little deeper because you mentioned this separation

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Speaker 4: of church and state. Yes, and this is of course

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Speaker 4: taken from an eighteen oh two letter Danberry Baptist Association

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Speaker 4: from Thomas Jefferson, where he said a wall of separation

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Speaker 4: between church and state to express his beliefs that government

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Speaker 4: should not interfere with religious freedom. Now, let's go back

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Speaker 4: to what he was probably really saying in eighteen oh two,

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Speaker 4: America was one hundred percent Christian, essentially right for all

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Speaker 4: intents and purposes, Catholic Christian work.

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Speaker 3: So our founders were often concerned.

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Speaker 4: With we don't want you know, the Presbyterians or the

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Speaker 4: Anglicans or whatever taking control of becoming the state religion.

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Speaker 3: Yes, right, and so that's that.

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Speaker 4: But this is not the Constitution, this is not in

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Speaker 4: the Declaration of Independence, and yet we have turned it

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Speaker 4: into this almost mythology of America that there is a

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Speaker 4: separation of church and state. Now, in practice, obviously we

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Speaker 4: know that that's impractical.

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Speaker 3: It's not possible because.

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Speaker 4: All legislation, all policy, is an extension a morality. It's

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Speaker 4: a codification of a moral precept which comes, of course

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Speaker 4: oftentimes sometimes it comes from academia, but oftentimes and historically

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Speaker 4: it comes from our faith, our Christian beliefs in this country.

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Speaker 4: So maybe just explain why this has become so insidious,

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Speaker 4: this idea of separation to church and state, and what

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Speaker 4: is true and what is not?

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Speaker 3: Legally?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, number one, it's not the Constitution, right, I mean,

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Speaker 5: what does the Constitution say? The Constitution this is the

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Speaker 5: first Amendment. The first two clauses said, the Congress will

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Speaker 5: make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting

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Speaker 5: the free exercise thereof. The founders did not want us

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Speaker 5: to establish a national church. They experienced that in England.

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Speaker 5: They didn't want that here. But what happened fifty years

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Speaker 5: ago in a case called Lemon It's Lemon be Kertzman

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Speaker 5: is they reinterpreted the establishment clause and they said, well,

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Speaker 5: we don't think it means just not establishing a national

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Speaker 5: church or denomination. We think it goes further than that.

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Speaker 5: And what it really means is anywhere that government is

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Speaker 5: religion can't be. I mean, that's kind of a separation

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Speaker 5: of church and state. They use words like the separation

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Speaker 5: of church and state. And normally you can't bring a

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Speaker 5: lawsuit sue if you're offended, that's not a basis, but

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Speaker 5: they start allowing lawsuits if you're offended by religion. So

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Speaker 5: if you wonder why Nativity scenes were taken down across

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Speaker 5: the country and Manora is at Hanukkah and ten Commandments

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Speaker 5: rolled into the closet, and it's not because any of

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Speaker 5: that is in the constitution. The founders would be appalled.

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Speaker 5: It's because of this Lemon case. And it was cited

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Speaker 5: over seven thousand times in the last fifty years to

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Speaker 5: put down religious expression in public. So like Nativity, Nativity scenes,

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Speaker 5: ten Commandments. You know, if some sort of religious activity

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Speaker 5: occurs at school, even by a student, everybody's in a panic.

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Speaker 1: The hardest working radio show in the business that Charlie Kirkshaw.

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Speaker 5: We've been trying to get rid of it because we

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Speaker 5: knew it really created a government that's hostile to religion,

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Speaker 5: which is not what the founders wanted. They don't want

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Speaker 5: the government to put their thumb on the scale in

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Speaker 5: favor of one religion over another, and never coercion by government.

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Speaker 5: But the idea that the government can't be pro religion

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Speaker 5: in general is ridiculous. I mean, it would strike down

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Speaker 5: the free exercise clause that's pro religion. And so we

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Speaker 5: finally got to the Coach Kennedy case, which was the

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Speaker 5: third of those cases. I was just mentioning. And of

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Speaker 5: course coach is a guy who was told he got

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Speaker 5: out of Marines after twenty years. He went coaching. He

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Speaker 5: made a promise to God that after every game, the

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Speaker 5: first thing he would do. Everybody's in center field, they're

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Speaker 5: making reservations for dinner. After the game, the first thing

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Speaker 5: he would do is go to a knee and for

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Speaker 5: fifteen seconds, thank God for the privilege of coaching those

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Speaker 5: young men. And he did it for seven years until

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Speaker 5: the school came to him and said, if you do

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Speaker 5: that again, we're going to fire you. And you know,

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Speaker 5: He's like, what did I fight for if I'm not

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Speaker 5: going to stand up? And what kind of example am

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Speaker 5: out of these boys if I run as soon as

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Speaker 5: somebody shoots at me. And so he went to a

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Speaker 5: knee and they fired him. And unfortunately for him and

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Speaker 5: for us, he lives outside at Seattle, so not exactly

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Speaker 5: sympathetic courts. And for seven and a half years he lost.

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Speaker 5: But we finally made it to the Supreme Court and

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Speaker 5: they ruled in our favor. This is the first time,

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Speaker 5: by the way Andrew, that there had ever been a

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Speaker 5: case at the Supreme Court on the rights of teachers

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Speaker 5: or coaches with regard to their faith. Huge victory. Free speech,

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Speaker 5: free exercise. Coaches and teachers do now give up their

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Speaker 5: First Amendment rights. And that's what most people know. What

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Speaker 5: they don't know was within that decision they overturned the

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Speaker 5: Lemon case. Wow, seven thousand psychedla year. This was yeah,

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Speaker 5: like three years ago, three years ago.

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Speaker 4: And as of three years ago, because of this success,

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Speaker 4: you guys had at first liberty institute. What is now

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Speaker 4: the precedent that has been said.

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Speaker 5: The precedent the new test is if there's a religious

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Speaker 5: activity and it's occurring with around or in government. If

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Speaker 5: it's a part of our history, it's consistent with our

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Speaker 5: history and our traditions as a country, it's presumptively constitution.

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Speaker 3: I want to.

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Speaker 4: So I want to dive into this because this is

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Speaker 4: something you and I were talking about before, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's really important.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So Charlie in the last months of his life, was

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Speaker 4: raising the alarm bell about Islam.

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Speaker 3: He was worried.

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Speaker 4: He was seeing epic city in Texas, dearborn Michigan. You see,

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Speaker 4: uh so on Mom, Donnie, and you know, you saw

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Speaker 4: that that debate clip between him and Cuoma where he

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Speaker 4: essentially guilted him and shamed him, saying that you know,

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Speaker 4: you don't know the mosques that you've visited, you know.

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Speaker 4: And so it shocked the nation outside, at the least

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Speaker 4: New York City, because it's like, oh, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: in order to be a mayoral candidate at a big

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Speaker 4: city in America, now I have to go service this

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Speaker 4: new population. Historically, there is no doubt, there is no

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Speaker 4: argument that historically America has been a Christian nation, whether

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Speaker 4: that be Baptists or Quakers, or Anglicans or Catholics or

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Speaker 4: and you could make the case for the there's been

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Speaker 4: a Jewish presence in the country for a historical president.

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Speaker 4: So at what point, because the pushback would be like, okay,

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Speaker 4: so we have more religious freedom now than we've ever had.

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Speaker 3: That's good.

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Speaker 4: Obviously as a Christian, I want to be able to

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Speaker 4: express my religious freedom. But what is good for the

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Speaker 4: goose is then good for the gander. And now we

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Speaker 4: have a rising population of Islam, of Muslims in this country,

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Speaker 4: and know what rights do they now have if it

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Speaker 4: now has to fit within this other president of a

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Speaker 4: historical consistency.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, first you all, you know, people will

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Speaker 5: ask a lot of times because we have synagogue cases

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Speaker 5: across the country, uh, just wanting to be synagogues and

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Speaker 5: they're being persecuted. It's ridiculous that this is happening in

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Speaker 5: the United States. And they'll say, well, what about religious

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Speaker 5: freedom for Muslims and and they say, I'm worried about that.

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Speaker 5: And I always say religious freedom to do what you know,

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Speaker 5: that's what you got to look at to do.

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Speaker 3: What to pray? Sure, you know, to.

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Speaker 5: Uh you know, uh put Sharia law in no you know.

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Speaker 5: And so take the Texas Uh they built that they

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Speaker 5: were trying to build that community out in Texas. It

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Speaker 5: was easily taken care of by law in Texas. In fact,

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Speaker 5: what they were doing and excluding others and doing that

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Speaker 5: type of an effort probably violates securities laws. And the

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Speaker 5: Attorney General is now beginning to do with securities lawsuit

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Speaker 5: against them for what they were trying to do. So

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Speaker 5: so I you know, I say, you know, and it

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Speaker 5: reminds me a little bit. Gosh, I don't know how

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Speaker 5: many maybe thirty years ago, twenty five years ago, when

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Speaker 5: Bible clubs and schools became a thing and people tried

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Speaker 5: to stop it went all the way to the Supreme courts,

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Speaker 5: I guess in the nineteen eighties, and there was a

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Speaker 5: great victory for religious freedom and that yeah, you can't

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Speaker 5: allow clubs at school and then include the Christian club

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Speaker 5: or the Bible club. And people would come to me

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Speaker 5: and they would say, if we allow these Bible clubs,

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Speaker 5: they're going to allow Satan clubs. They have to allow

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Speaker 5: them to and you know, because of religious freedom. And

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Speaker 5: I would say, you know, our kids say they'd love

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Speaker 5: to know who they are. Let it happen and let's

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Speaker 5: see who wins. And you know, ten years later there

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Speaker 5: were thirty three thousand Bible clubs in public schools and

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Speaker 5: there really weren't much of the others. Now, I know

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Speaker 5: the Muslim community is more organized, but I really think

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Speaker 5: the truth always wins over the darkness. So if somebody's

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Speaker 5: trying to do something and change our country, I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's not a Muslim country in the world that you

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Speaker 5: can find that really has religious freedom. The reason we

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Speaker 5: have religious freedom in this country, even for people who

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Speaker 5: disagree with Christians, is because of the Jao Christian belief

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Speaker 5: that a relationship between you and God is between you

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Speaker 5: and God and the government has no right to come

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Speaker 5: in between that. And I think that will win out.

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Speaker 5: I think, yeah, the sunlight.

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Speaker 4: Listen, I love the glass at full interpretation of that.

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Speaker 4: But you know it is it's an immigration, it's a

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Speaker 4: function of immigration. The more that we import people that

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Speaker 4: happen to be Muslim, the more that they're going to

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Speaker 4: exercise politically their political rights and they're going to try

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Speaker 4: and leverage that. You saw that with Zorah Mamdani and

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Speaker 4: Andrew Cuomo. The more that they're going to try and

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Speaker 4: form communities where they get to express a cultural norm

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Speaker 4: that we would not consider traditionally American. So that's kind

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Speaker 4: of the basis of my question. So you're saying that

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Speaker 4: it has to be consistent with a historic norm, right, Yes,

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Speaker 4: So at what point does something become considered historic? Because

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Speaker 4: if I'm their lawyers and I find myself in a case,

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Speaker 4: so I'll be like, well, we've had Muslims in New

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Speaker 4: York since you know this date, of course it's historic.

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Speaker 4: Well not in any it's the practice, it's predominant way.

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Speaker 5: It's what they're asking to do.

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Speaker 4: Well, so we have this Muslim call to prayer, right,

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Speaker 4: and there was actually a clip of this. I think

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Speaker 4: I actually have this, So we've got bear with me

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Speaker 4: for one second here, Kelly. I want to make sure

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Speaker 4: I get these clips right because these are these are striking.

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Speaker 3: And here we go. So this is this is.

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Speaker 4: The dearborn police Chief Shaheen on the Islamic calls to prayer,

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Speaker 4: blasting five times starting at sunrise daily, cut play, cut

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Speaker 4: to ten.

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Speaker 6: Oftentimes when we take readings, Council President, it's the ambient noise.

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Speaker 2: It's even louder than.

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Speaker 6: The call to prayer. To be ask you the truck

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Speaker 6: will go by, hit a pothole, and it's much louder

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Speaker 6: than the.

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Speaker 2: Call to prayer.

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Speaker 6: The two or three valiations that we've have had in

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Speaker 6: the last couple of years have been met with compliance

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Speaker 6: as soon as we've talked to the religious institution. It's

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Speaker 6: no different than church bells that you might hear on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: News Flash Democrats America as a republic, not a democracy

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Speaker 1: fact check true.

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Speaker 4: And then you've got this guy, Mehdi Hassan who actually

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Speaker 4: comes by way of the UK. He was obviously he

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Speaker 4: was an MSNBC anchor and now he's just basically a

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Speaker 4: troublemaker and a provocateur play cut two twelve. I think

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Speaker 4: that if you can play church bells can pray, the

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Speaker 4: cult to prayer, we are as American as anyone else

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Speaker 4: and don't take any bs from any Okay. So this

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Speaker 4: is going to be their argument now as the population

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Speaker 4: of Muslims increases in the country, while we continue to

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Speaker 4: issue one point two million green cards every year and

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Speaker 4: a lot of those are coming from Muslim countries, and

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Speaker 4: now even increasingly if we get people immigrating from Europe,

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Speaker 4: they might be Muslims. So the point is they're going

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Speaker 4: to assert their religious freedoms because this is a country

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Speaker 4: historically that has exercised broad a broad view of what

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Speaker 4: religious freedom is. But you're saying there's a historical precedent,

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Speaker 4: So I'm just again, I'm playing Devil's advocate a little

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Speaker 4: bit here, which is a terrible expression, by the way,

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Speaker 4: to use in a.

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Speaker 3: Religious freedom discussion.

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Speaker 4: But so if they come in and they start saying, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's no different than church bells, and you

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Speaker 4: come in you say, well, it has to be consistent

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Speaker 4: with the historic precedent. Is there is there a sense

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Speaker 4: of you would look at it and say, well, because

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Speaker 4: this nation is historically Christian or Catholic, that that would

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Speaker 4: you would have broader freedoms in those respects to exercise

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Speaker 4: certain religious freedoms. Then you would if they want to

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Speaker 4: start doing sharil are, if they want to start doing

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Speaker 4: genital mutilation, if they want to start doing just Muslim called.

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Speaker 5: To prayer, Yeah, I think it wouldn't be based upon

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Speaker 5: the religion. It would be based on the practice, what

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Speaker 5: kind of practices were allowed. So in other words, if

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Speaker 5: if if a Christian can pray, you know, somebody could say, well,

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Speaker 5: the history was most of the prayers are Christians, So

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Speaker 5: the Jews can't pray. Well no, No, the whole idea

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Speaker 5: was they were praying, right, and I think the noise

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Speaker 5: that the situation here with, you know, calls to prayer.

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Speaker 5: That's a noise issue, right. I mean, if the idea

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Speaker 5: was that, well, we don't want them to be able

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Speaker 5: to send an email to their friends and tell them

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Speaker 5: to come to prayer. Uh, well, we'll allow the Christians

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Speaker 5: to do it, but not the Muslims. We wouldn't say that, right,

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Speaker 5: This is a noise issue, and if the noise is

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Speaker 5: really violating and disturbing people, they need to control it

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Speaker 5: with noise. Now, the things that people are really concerned about,

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Speaker 5: like creating Sharia law and things like this, those would

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Speaker 5: never be allowed or consistent with our constitution in this country.

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Speaker 5: So those things would take away freedoms and those things.

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Speaker 5: So you always have to ask yourself what is the

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Speaker 5: religious practice that they're asking for, and is it consistent

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Speaker 5: with our history and tradition if the government is involved,

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Speaker 5: if not, is it just something that is you know,

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Speaker 5: we would want to protect for all faiths, because that's

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Speaker 5: really what the religious freedoms is about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, in this Muslim call to prayer.

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Speaker 4: When they start congregating in certain municipalities like they have

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Speaker 4: in Deerborn, that's going to be an increasing issue because

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Speaker 4: that's something that they demand with they demand these five

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Speaker 4: times a day prayers. They all have to point towards

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Speaker 4: Mecca and they get on their prayer mats and it's

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Speaker 4: you know, and I think at some level for a

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Speaker 4: lot of us, you know, it's just simply it's offensive because.

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Speaker 3: We believe that.

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Speaker 4: You know, and you don't have to chime in here,

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Speaker 4: this can be me. But it's offensive because you know,

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Speaker 4: we love our culture.

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Speaker 3: We love the.

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Speaker 4: American Christian heritage that we have that we inherited from

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Speaker 4: England and from you know, the Magna Carta and you know,

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Speaker 4: all the way back to Black Road regimen, the revivals

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Speaker 4: that gave birth to American liberty, and we hold these

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Speaker 4: things dear, and so we don't want to hear.

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Speaker 3: Muslim calls to prayer in our neighborhoods.

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Speaker 4: I don't want my kids to have to go to

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Speaker 4: school and be taught to how to be respectful to

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Speaker 4: this other culture that I didn't have to grow up with.

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Speaker 4: But all of a sudden they decided to move here,

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Speaker 4: and when you also think about the fact that they

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Speaker 4: have fifty Muslim majority fifty plus Muslim majority nations on

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Speaker 4: planet Earth that they could move to. Why are you

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Speaker 4: insisting on moving to the West?

437
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: That is Christian?

438
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 4: Even if we're not, you know, everybody's you know, going

439
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 4: to church on Sunday. This is in our turns of phrases,

440
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 4: our rules, our norms, our customs, the holidays that we celebrate.

441
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 4: This is a Christian nation. It still is, and we're

442
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 4: seeing this great revival. We do not want to have

443
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 4: to listen to the call of prayer what I and

444
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 4: I understand you have a different challenge as a lawyer

445
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 4: to sort of interpret the laws and the statutes on

446
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 4: the books. But what are the statutes on the books

447
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 4: or what what is lacking that would help protect and

448
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 4: insulate our culture from I would say an increasingly hostile

449
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 4: force that wants to assert cultural dominance on Americans and

450
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: the West.

451
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the idea of what you can do

452
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 5: about different religions that would come in and really aren't religions,

453
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 5: they're more government and culture. They they don't assimilate. That's

454
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 5: problem number one. Any any religion that comes into the

455
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 5: United States that doesn't want to assimilate. That's the whole

456
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 5: purpose of the United States is assimilation. It's the melting pot,

457
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 5: not creating, you know, a new government from some other source.

458
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 5: And so so I think the issue there is not

459
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 5: the religious freedom side, is the immigration and who we're

460
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 5: allowing in and making sure that we are the United States,

461
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 5: that we we have a certain history and tradition and approach,

462
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 5: and we love diversity if they're coming here for the

463
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 5: ideals of America freedom.

464
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 4: But I was saying, we don't have We don't have

465
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 4: a problem with ethnic diversity necessarily, we have a problem

466
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: with cultural diversity right now. It's not to say that

467
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 4: I don't love my Italian grandmother's you know, Canoli's, It's

468
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 4: not what I'm saying, like, obviously there's certain things. But

469
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 4: if you expect to come here into this country and

470
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 4: you expect to then matriculate your son or daughter into

471
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 4: my kid's school and now we have to make a

472
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 4: carve out for Muslim prayer five times a day, that

473
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 4: impacts my child's learning experience or they have to now

474
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 4: be educated on how to be you know, incorporated into

475
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 4: that experience. Much like we've seen candidly with the secular

476
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 4: cult of LGBTQ plus whatever the you know it's Charlie

477
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 4: always called the alphabet mafia. I mean that is that

478
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: was That was a coercive still is in many schools,

479
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 4: and you've you've had experience. Actually, I want to play

480
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 4: one of these cuts from years I want to talk

481
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 4: about that case. But this is a this is an

482
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 4: insidious cultural coercive force that you know, we have to Yes,

483
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: the immigration is key, and I totally agree with that.

484
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 4: We've been hitting that hard for a long time on

485
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 4: the show. You know, we're doing one point two million

486
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 4: Green cards a year and we don't vet for American values,

487
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 4: we don't vet for anything like that because we're a

488
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 4: bunch of suckers and we get taken advantage of. And

489
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 4: my argument is like, can we, at least as a

490
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 4: first step, go back to pre nineteen ninety Immigration Act

491
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 4: with George H. W. Bush, which took it from five

492
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 4: hundred thousand Green cards a year to one point two million.

493
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: We do not need the state of Montana every year

494
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 4: in this country, or the state of Arkansas every three

495
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: years in this country with legal immigrants, especially as Ai

496
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 4: is coming. I mean, we're already seeing Amazon has just

497
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 4: announced they're going to probably cut about six hundred thousand

498
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 4: jobs and replace them with robots over the next couple

499
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 4: of years.

500
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 3: I mean, so this is coming. We do not need

501
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: this level.

502
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 4: Of immigration, but the cultural implications are are unavoidable, right,

503
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: and so I totally agree, Yes, let's deal with the

504
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 4: immigration thing first, but we already have a problem that's

505
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 4: here and or at least a potential conflicts of interests

506
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 4: that are here, and you see that with the medi

507
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 4: Hassan clip. So I'm just trying to drill down on

508
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: this piece of do we have more because we have

509
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: more precedent historically, Do we have more freedoms?

510
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: Do we have more rights to this than.

511
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's going to be more practices that are more

512
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 5: consistent with the Judeo Christian heritage or the founding that

513
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 5: are going to be laid in that are not going

514
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 5: to that would wouldn't be part of history, tradition from

515
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 5: other religions. They're not going to be so they're not

516
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 5: going to be automatically presumptively. Now again, what we're talking

517
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 5: about here, though, is not practices of individuals. Is when

518
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 5: you involve the government. That's what the whole issue with

519
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 5: the Coach Kennedy's case and this idea of you know

520
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 5: of of you're not doing the limit approach where oh

521
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 5: there's your own government grounds. Well you know, gosh, can't

522
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 5: do any of this religious stuff. They said, no, no,

523
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 5: as long as it's part of our tradition. Now I

524
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 5: say all this, We're about to argue a case at

525
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court in less than two months over whether

526
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 5: you have a right to share your faith in a

527
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 5: public park. So you begin to wonder. Sometimes we begin

528
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 5: to lose who we are as a country. But I

529
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 5: feel good and I'm very hopeful we'll win that case.

530
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 5: But so that's different. But let's go to religious freedom itself,

531
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 5: not not with on the government lawn or whatever else is.

532
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 5: I really believe that religious freedom wins out. It's kind

533
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 5: of like free speech. If somebody's saying something you don't

534
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 5: agree with, the answer is not for the government to

535
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 5: stop the other's let's let's speak the truth, right, And

536
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: it's the same way with religious freedom, especially as a

537
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 5: as a Christian. I believe, man, you allow her to

538
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 5: be freedom. I think that I have the truth and

539
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 5: the Holy Spirit on my side, and you got no

540
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 5: chance on the other side, right, So that's what I want.

541
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 5: So that's one of the beautiful things about the Coach

542
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 5: Kennedy case is all these things that we haven't been

543
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 5: allowed to do. That's created almost a naked public square.

544
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 5: Right we should be. I mean, I love the fact

545
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 5: that we can have a Nativity scene at Christmas on

546
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 5: the on the government lawn, we can have a minora

547
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 5: for Hanukkah, and we begin to remember those moral and

548
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 5: religious roots of our country. And it's not this sort

549
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 5: of naked public square like we're moving into Marxism or something.

550
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 5: It's we actually have a different mindset that actually thinks

551
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 5: there is truth that is not about you know, the

552
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 5: oppressed versus the oppressor. It's very different. It's every person

553
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 5: is valuable in the eyes of God. You know, all

554
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 5: those principles start to flood back into our country. But

555
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 5: when we remove those from the public arena, we began

556
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 5: to lose those. When you push the Ten Commandments in

557
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: the closet and you do all these which is why

558
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: I love. If you've seen a number of states are

559
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: now passing laws, they're putting up Ten Commandments posters in

560
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 5: their schools, and they're teaching about these things as part

561
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 5: of our history and traditions and the beginning of our

562
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 5: laws and our thoughts in our country. That will really

563
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 5: change us, I think long term, and I would much

564
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 5: rather have that approach that allows for more freedom. Even

565
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 5: if there's you know, some things that maybe people don't like,

566
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 5: as long as they're not infringing other people's freedoms, you know,

567
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: they're welcome to go if you what.

568
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: If you could make the argument that, you know, the

569
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 4: Muslim called a prayer five times a day is infringing

570
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: on my freedom not to have to hear it, although

571
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 4: they would say the same thing about church bells, which

572
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 4: is objectively a beautiful thing to hear. I mean, you know,

573
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I would argue that even Muslims would think,

574
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 4: you know, oh that's a nice sounding tone, or maybe

575
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: they don't.

576
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 5: Maybe that's if not to have neutral on that, I

577
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 5: think they'll have to have a neutral law. Whatever it is, right,

578
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 5: if it's if it's a noise level, if it's the

579
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 5: number of times a day something. I mean, people, there

580
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 5: is a right somewhat. I mean, you would want to

581
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 5: make that a right in your community to not be

582
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 5: disrupted by sounds all day, right. I mean, it would

583
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 5: be miserable if you're right next to one of these

584
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 5: places and you couldn't do your business. No, of course,

585
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 5: but those laws would have to be objective. It couldn't

586
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 5: be well, this religion can't do it, reg And.

587
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: I don't think that's going to be a very satisfying

588
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 4: answer for somebody.

589
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: I understand.

590
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: I understand that you are bound by the laws and

591
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: you have to work within a legal construct. So I'm

592
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 4: not this is not pointed at you. I understand you're

593
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: kind of helping me navigate through what's possible what's not.

594
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: But I think you're right.

595
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: I mean, ultimately, this is a cultural issue that starts

596
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: with immigration, absolutely, and that's we're gonna.

597
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 3: Have to to get to. Now.

598
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 4: I'm want to pivot somewhat to this. So the President's

599
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 4: commit has has formed a commission Religious Liberty Commission. Yes,

600
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: tell us about that, because you are directly involved in that.

601
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 5: It's uh, it's the first time it's ever been done

602
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 5: in the United States. Commissions generally report to like an

603
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 5: agency or department or something, and I think they send

604
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: send a report and peers in the back of some room.

605
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 5: This one's really different. The charter of the Commission is

606
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 5: specifically to report directly and only to the President of

607
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 5: the United States, and we have to do this by

608
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 5: July fourth of our two fiftieth, which is the two

609
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 5: fiftieth celebration of religious freedom and the freedom of our country.

610
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: One percent American maids aren't proud of it. The Charlie

611
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: Cirk Show.

612
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 5: And it's all our job is to give him direct

613
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 5: recommendations on what he can do to secure religious freedom

614
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 5: for the future of our country. And so we're holding

615
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 5: hearings and we're hearing testimony. I think most people are

616
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 5: shocked when they hear what's going on around the country.

617
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 5: And we're coming up with some recommendations. And I have

618
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 5: no doubt with this president that our recommendations will not

619
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 5: be executed.

620
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: You told me some crazy stories. Let's start with the

621
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 4: woman that got She's a teacher that got fired for

622
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: having across at her desk.

623
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's this is still going on. It's in Connecticut,

624
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 5: Marisol Castro. She's a wonderful woman, thirty three years teaching.

625
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 5: And if you could see the pictures, you know, if

626
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 5: you see it online, they've got a desk and they've

627
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 5: got a little wall behind them. That's their personal wall.

628
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 5: They put what their stuff on there, and you know

629
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: it's up in Connecticut. There's Yankees banners, there's you know, Yoda's,

630
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 5: there's all kinds of stuff. I mean, you could put

631
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 5: a gay Pride flag if you wanted. But there's one

632
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 5: thing that's not allowed. She has a little cross. It's

633
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 5: not that big, it's a little cross in the midst

634
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 5: of all those personal things. So principal, vice principal, everybody

635
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 5: comes flooding into a room saying you take that down.

636
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 5: And she's very intimidated by this. You know, she's scared.

637
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 5: And they say, I'll tell you what. We'll let you

638
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 5: put it under your desk, and they what had her

639
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 5: mount it under her.

640
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 4: Literally a verse for this, like don't put it under

641
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 4: a bushel, like you know.

642
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 5: It's like, no, you're right, you're exactly. Because she goes home.

643
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: We have these images, so the studio is gonna put

644
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 4: them up in just a second. But she looks like

645
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 4: such a sweetheart. I'm just looking at this show a

646
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: picture of this woman.

647
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 5: Her name is what Marissa, Marissa Marisol Castro, maris Marissa Castro.

648
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 4: And then here go to go to two sixty four.

649
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 4: This is the picture of the cross in question. You

650
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 4: can see it. It's just like so where she would sit,

651
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 4: it's almost just down to her right side.

652
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: And that was a violation.

653
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 5: But they put it under her desk, like on the

654
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 5: side inside under her desk.

655
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: There is a picture. Yeah, there's a picture of that too.

656
00:33:49,360 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 5: And uh, and she, you know, she was intimidated. All

657
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 5: these bosses come in and and so she goes home

658
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 5: and just starts weeping. And as she says, as she

659
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 5: always prays to Papa God, she said, Papa God, I

660
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 5: failed you. And when I go back tomorrow, I'm I'm

661
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 5: going to do it right. I'm putting the cross back up.

662
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 5: And she went back and you can see that cross

663
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 5: under the desk. She pulled it off the desk, she

664
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 5: put it back up on her board, and then she

665
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 5: wants to spend it. They walked her out of the

666
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 5: school like with all of her stuff in a box,

667
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 5: like a criminal. And uh, they're still refusing to back down.

668
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 5: Uh and again think of oh separation of church and state.

669
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 5: It's like we look at the coach Kennedy opinion. Okay,

670
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 5: the whole argument they were making there was, well, the

671
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 5: kids might see him pray. It's like, and the Supreme

672
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 5: Court said, so, yeah, you know, I mean, he could

673
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: wear a dress, but you can't watch him pray. Of

674
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: course he could pray. And so there's nothing wrong with

675
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 5: a teacher being a person of faith having a cross

676
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 5: around their neck whatever. That's that's part of life. And

677
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 5: it's like they have an even they can't even read

678
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court decision they have We've sent it to them.

679
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 5: This is the hostility that goes on to teachers, to kids,

680
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 5: to parents around the country that we have to fight

681
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 5: every day all over the country.

682
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and then there's this. I mean, she's

683
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: just such a sweetheart.

684
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: I hope.

685
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it sounds like you guys already should have

686
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: dealt with this, with the Lemon case where you got

687
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 4: that reversus Kennedy, all.

688
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 5: Of this should should take care of it. But we're

689
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 5: we're fighting. We have one of the biggest law firms

690
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 5: in the world joined us against this school district, but

691
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 5: they're refusing to back down, and so we're we're still

692
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 5: in court. And you know, if people, I will say this,

693
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 5: they could go to the Religious Liberty Commission and watch

694
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 5: any of the past hearings. They're really fascinating. Encourage people

695
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 5: to do that. And her testimony, which is about forty

696
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 5: five minutes long, it was spellby. I mean it had

697
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 5: the whole place hundreds hundreds of people with their mouth open,

698
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 5: just floored. In fact, I didn't see a woman in

699
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 5: the room who didn't have a tissue. It was really powerful.

700
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: She was.

701
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 5: She spoke from her heart.

702
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 4: Talking about you know, I failed you, Papa. Gut I mean,

703
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 4: well that's gut wrenching to just hear you even say that,

704
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: because you know that her faith was so sincere that

705
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 4: she knew not to hide her faith or let them

706
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: persecute her, and so she felt guilty. But I'm so

707
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 4: proud of her as a as a brother in Christ,

708
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 4: God bless her.

709
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 5: And you know what, like that's not the type of

710
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 5: teachers we want for her.

711
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: Of course, I mean the people these are the people

712
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 4: that you do want leading our children, not the ones

713
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 4: that are doing hand signs to their neck. And Nathan

714
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 4: Hale Elementary Lucy Martinez that still hasn't been fired as

715
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: of this recording at least, and so we're hoping that

716
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 4: that happens. And by the way, you know, some people

717
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: are like, oh, well, you know they're upset that we're saying, hey,

718
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: if you celebrated Charlie Kirk's murder, that you should not

719
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 4: be employed to teach our school at our schools, whether

720
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 4: that be K through eight or it be a university

721
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 4: like Illinois State, where there was a teacher's assistant who

722
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 4: tried to flip over one of the tables of our

723
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: kids that were tabling out in the square, and that

724
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: that teaching is a teaching assistant has been fired by

725
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 4: Illinois State University.

726
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: God bless them.

727
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: And you know, here's another Illinois example, and this Lucy Martinez,

728
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: should be fired because you failed a fundamental decency test.

729
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: I call it Life's pop quiz.

730
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 3: You know you got. It's like, how do you find

731
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 3: out the.

732
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 4: Quality of the water and a glass well and it

733
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 4: gets gets bumped, it spills out, and you find out

734
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: what's inside?

735
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 3: Is it gonna poison you? Is it clean? Is it

736
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: is whatever?

737
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: Well, she got bumped and what spilled out was vile garbage,

738
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 4: and I'm sorry, but that reveals character. You're not fit

739
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: to be around students. And so some people are like, well,

740
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 4: you can't call on for these people to get fired.

741
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 4: And I'm like, well, listen, just because you're upset that

742
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: somebody's gonna lose their job or something, well, guess what,

743
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 4: Charlie lost his life for it, So don't give me that.

744
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 4: Sometimes there are consequences for your actions, and this should

745
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 4: be one of those examps.

746
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 5: Celebrating anybody's death is unacceptable, totally.

747
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: There's got to be a line.

748
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 5: Doesn't matter who you are, it's unacceptable in any job

749
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 5: in this country.

750
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: Thousand percent.

751
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 5: I mean, we you know that that should be automatic.

752
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 4: Especially somebody as good and wonderful and as decent. And

753
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 4: I understand people have different algorithms and they get fed

754
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 4: all of this stuff, which is why we've made it

755
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 4: a point on the show to just debunk these out

756
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 4: of context clips or the divorce from the argument that

757
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 4: preceded it. For fifteen minutes, and they take one little

758
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: snippet and these people go around saying Charlie was a bigot,

759
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 4: a misogynist or something.

760
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 3: It's infuriating.

761
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: There's another story, however, that I wanted to get to

762
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: because you had told me about it. I actually still

763
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 4: haven't seen the clip, but apparently it went viral. So

764
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 4: you guys are having this Commission, and it's a hearing

765
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 4: to hearing. Maybe paint the scene because this young man

766
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 4: ended up wowing everybody.

767
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's we that one was the day. That day

768
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 5: was on the rights of students at public schools and

769
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 5: the rights of parents. So we heard some gut wrenching stories.

770
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 5: I mean, a mom who had her daughter transitioned behind

771
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 5: her back and they were keeping her in the dark,

772
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: and it's just horrible stuff you're hearing. But the President

773
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 5: shows up and out of all the people that are

774
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: going to testify, he picks one person and the person

775
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 5: he picked is when he was He was twelve at

776
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 5: this hearing, but he was eleven when this happened. This

777
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 5: is in Incinitas, California. They forced into school all the

778
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 5: fifth graders to read a book called My Shadow.

779
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: Is Pink to their kindergarten buddies.

780
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 4: All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvett,

781
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 4: executive producer of this show. We have a special episode

782
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 4: for you guys, and it's all about autism. This is

783
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: a conversation that has become very much front and center

784
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 4: in the national dialogue, of course, with the Maha movement.

785
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 4: RFK studies and this discussion about tile and all and

786
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 4: potential treatments for it, and so we wanted to make

787
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 4: sure that we address this issue head on, so you

788
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: guys have all the information that you need in order

789
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 4: to make wise decisions for yourself, for your family, for

790
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 4: your kids, and to help me make sense of this

791
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 4: is going to be a very special guest, Doctor Richard Frye.

792
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: You are a medical doctor, a PhD. You're a pediatric

793
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 4: urologists studying treatments for kids with autism. You're also the

794
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 4: director of research at the Rosignawn Medical Center, and you

795
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: were the president of the Autism Discovering Treatment Foundation. It's

796
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 4: very very amazing resume that you got there. And we

797
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 4: also have Riley Marty who's actually on our team as well.

798
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 4: And Riley is a passionate, passionate advocate for I think

799
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 4: it'd be safe to say for doing this the right way,

800
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 4: the right studies. You and your husband Ryan both have

801
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 4: some sort of medical background and studies in school and

802
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 4: that sort of thing, and so you're kind of our

803
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: resident expert. So I wanted Riley to be here with

804
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 4: me as we go through this very important topic. But

805
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 4: doctor Richard fry welcome to the Charlie Kirshaw.

806
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, really, thanks for having me. Yeah.

807
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and so as I understand it, you have been

808
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 4: way out front on this issue in a way that

809
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 4: it was you know, you almost have to use that expression,

810
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 4: you know, they're not crazy, they're just early.

811
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 3: That was kind of you, right.

812
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: You were studying autism and ways to treat autism before

813
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 4: or it became part of our zeit guys, part of

814
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 4: our national dialogue. Tell me what made you start in

815
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 4: this way? What did when did you start noticing that

816
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 4: autism rates were increasing and why did you decide to

817
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 4: get so involved in this area of study.

818
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I appreciate the question, and it's I'd like

819
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 7: to say autism found me, you know. So I was,

820
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 7: you know, very interested in neuroscience. I was talking to

821
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 7: Riley before, and you know, very interested in how the

822
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 7: brain works and the wiring of the brain. But being

823
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 7: a doctor, you know, you think of things beyond just

824
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 7: kind of academics of you know, the the interesting science

825
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 7: of it, of how to make kiddos better. So I

826
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 7: was actually very interested in learning disabilities when I was

827
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 7: in residency and I did a fellowship in learning disabilities

828
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 7: and behavioral neurology. But what was happening is, you know,

829
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 7: I was interested in dyslexia, but you know, as also

830
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 7: a doctor, and as a doctor, you know, and I'd

831
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 7: see patients. There was a lot of kids with dyslexia

832
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 7: and learning disabilities that would come to me. What was happening.

833
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 7: This was the early two thousands, and I was a fellow,

834
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 7: you know, and all these autism was being recognized more

835
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 7: and more. So parents were bringing their children to the

836
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 7: neurologists to say, my child has autism. You know, what

837
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 7: can I do about it? And of course nobody really

838
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 7: knew all that much about it, how to treat it

839
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 7: or anything. And when they come to the department, what

840
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 7: do you do if you know, nobody really knows, You

841
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 7: give the patient to the fellow, right see what they

842
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 7: can figure out. And so parents would come to me

843
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 7: and they would say, well, my child just got diagnosed

844
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 7: with autism. They say they don't know what causes it,

845
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 7: and they don't really know what to do about it,

846
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 7: but probably has something to do with the brain, so

847
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 7: maybe you can figure it out. And I kind of

848
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 7: took it as a challenge because you know, I wanted

849
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 7: to make these kiddos better. And I was doing my residency,

850
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 7: you know, in neurology, so we knew how to do

851
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 7: EEGs to look at seizure activity, and we know that

852
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 7: some kiddos with autism have strange type of seizure type

853
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 7: of phenomena, so I.

854
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: Knew I could do an EEG.

855
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 7: Then and then a friend of mine had a child

856
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 7: with autism who had a mitochondrial disorder. And I had

857
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 7: been very actually interested in mitochondrial disorders when I was

858
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 7: in pediatrics, so I said, well, I know how to

859
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 7: test for that. Well, I can do that, so I

860
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 7: can do an EEG. I could do, you know, I

861
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 7: could look for mitochondrial disorder. And then I went on

862
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 7: to get a job and so in academia. I was

863
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 7: in academia for about twenty years, and I'd go to

864
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 7: the department of course, and my colleagues would say, you

865
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 7: know something about autism, because I have a whole clinic

866
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 7: full of them, and I have no idea what to

867
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 7: do with these kiddos. So they gave me all their

868
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 7: kids with autism. And finally I had to make my

869
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 7: own clinic that where I was seeing pretty much only

870
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 7: kids with autism, and as I saw more and more kids,

871
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 7: I started to figure out other things to do. And

872
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 7: as you know as neurologists, one of the things we

873
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 7: do when we can't figure things out was we do

874
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 7: what we call lumbar puncture to look at the cam

875
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 7: mystry in the brain to see if there's something wrong

876
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 7: with the chemistry. And I was at a very big

877
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 7: center and so we were very good at doing these things.

878
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 7: So I send kids for these lumber punctures, and I

879
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 7: noticed that the biochemical findings were abnormal, and I found

880
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 7: a couple of kids that had low fol eate in

881
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 7: their in their a nervous system, and I looked at

882
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 7: it about the same time, really, a cerebral fol eight

883
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,479
Speaker 7: efficiency was really described in about two thousand and five,

884
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 7: so this is just a little bit about the same time.

885
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 7: I said this brand new research. I said, oh, maybe

886
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 7: I can treat it with this drug luc of orrin,

887
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 7: And I did, and the kiddos had some amazing results.

888
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 4: Well, and I want to poduate there because I actually

889
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 4: have a personal experience with this, not me, not my family,

890
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: but it was you know, Riley's been helping get this

891
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 4: interview set up and kind of telling me some of

892
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 4: the backstory, and I finally I was like, I'm literally

893
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 4: texting with a dear friend whose son is nonverbal, four

894
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 4: or five years old, and all of a sudden is

895
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 4: taking this drug and is adding words, additional words to

896
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 4: his vocabulary. He literally didn't talk, and now all of

897
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 4: a sudden, he's using multiple, multiple new words every week.

898
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 4: And the parents are ecstatic, as you might imagine. But

899
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 4: let's before we get to the to the Luke of

900
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 4: Orn conversation. I want to kind of take a step

901
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 4: back because Charlie had somebody on this show named Kramu.

902
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 4: He's he's got a Twitter account, x account, and he's

903
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 4: kind of like a statistician almost. He looks at big,

904
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 4: broad themes. And they discussed this wasn't that long ago.

905
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 4: They discussed whether.

906
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 3: Or not.

907
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 4: This what we're calling this rise in autism is is

908
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 4: it more statistic? Is it more because we broaden the

909
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 4: definition of what autism is? Or is it really really

910
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 4: truly you know, what are they saying? What are the

911
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 4: rates in California one in twenty two kids or something

912
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 4: like that. In California, it's one in thirty across the nation,

913
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: something approximately like that, do you do you? I mean,

914
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 4: is it maybe a bit of both that we've we've

915
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 4: opened the aperture and now we're considering more kids with

916
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 4: learning disabilities or what have you, autistic and we just

917
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 4: simply didn't classify them that way. So it's it's misrepresenting

918
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 4: the numbers. Or is it also that there just simply

919
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 4: are more kids that are autistic.

920
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of both.

921
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, I know when we went from the different definition,

922
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 7: so we use something called the Diagnostic Statistical Manual and

923
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 7: Mental disorders to diagnose in the DSM, and we went

924
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 7: from the d s M four to five. We actually

925
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 7: thought it was going to be more strict and that

926
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 7: we'd lose, but instead we went the opposite way, you know.

927
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 7: And so they have studies that.

928
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 3: Show who determines the definitions.

929
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 7: So that's that's a group, a group of experts that

930
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 7: look at these different symptoms and they decide how you

931
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 7: can best define these and and and that's one thing

932
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 7: that we have to understand. Yeah, and it's a limitation

933
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 7: of our diagnostic methods. So the DSM looks at behavior.

934
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 7: So all we look at is behavior, and when these

935
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 7: behaviors come together we say it's a certain disorder, and

936
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 7: we don't always look at the underlying biology. And that's

937
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 7: something that's really lagged behind, right, And it's many times thought,

938
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 7: you know, for a long time, thought maybe there wasn't.

939
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: Any biology to it.

940
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 7: But we learn more and more that there is biology,

941
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 7: and the more we look into it, we find out

942
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 7: that there's actually medical causes that are causing the brain

943
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 7: and these behaviors to actually occur. So right now we're

944
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 7: still left at that point where we're using this behavioral

945
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 7: definition without having any blood tests or scans or anything.

946
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 4: So it's the American Psychiatric Association which determines the DSM

947
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 4: guidelines exactly right, So you're saying that they are looking

948
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 4: at behavioral outcomes and not looking at the underlying biology

949
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 4: or in this case blood work or hormones whatever that you're.

950
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 3: Noticing that is deficient.

951
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 4: So there's underlying But in an even deeper sense, is

952
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 4: there's something that's causing the underlying abnormal situation, whether it's

953
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 4: you were talking about full lates, is it like is

954
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 4: it our diet?

955
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 3: Is it?

956
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 4: Is it toxins in the environment, is it plastics? Do

957
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 4: we know more about what these underlying causes are.

958
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 7: I think what we know is that it's complex, you know,

959
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 7: but definitely there are predispositions, sometimes genetic predispositions, and there is.

960
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 4: Also a change between nineteen fifty.

961
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 7: And well, this is the very interesting thing. Yeah, So

962
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 7: this is the interesting thing. And what I've started to

963
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 7: talk about a lot is this fact that you know,

964
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 7: a lot of people for a long time. For the

965
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 7: last twenty years, we've assumed that autism is genetic because it's.

966
00:49:46,800 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: Very heritable, relentless than spirit. You're listening to the Charlie Kirk.

967
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 7: Show, Okay, and I think that most of what's heritable

968
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 7: is genetic, and that's not completely true, and that things

969
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 7: that are genetic are untreatable. Both of those things are

970
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 7: not true. So, first of all, what we're learning is

971
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 7: those genetic mutations are what we call de novo, so

972
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 7: they're non inherited, they're new mutations.

973
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: So it's a.

974
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 7: Kind of interesting way to try to think about it,

975
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 7: because yes, autism is genetic, but it's also environmental because

976
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 7: you have to get those mutations somewhere.

977
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 4: Okay, And that's an interesting question. When you're talking about mutations,

978
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 4: is that something that will happen in the parents' life.

979
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 4: So they're having kids, let's say at thirty, but something

980
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: happened between twenty and twenty five and a genetic mutation happened,

981
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 4: and then they pass that on or is it happening

982
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 4: in conception?

983
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 7: So all of the above, And it's different for men

984
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 7: and women. Okay, because for for females, their eggs are

985
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 7: actually made when they're developing in their mother's room, so

986
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 7: you can go back to their mother the grandmother. And men,

987
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 7: we're making sperm all the time. So actually we can

988
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 7: have mutations throughout our life.

989
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: What do we know what causes mutations?

990
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 7: Well, there's all types of environmental toxins, so I think

991
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 7: we can look at one. You know, there's certain types

992
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 7: of toxins in the environment that we're exposed to that

993
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 7: cause problems. And but there's also the other aspect, of

994
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 7: the nutritional aspect of it, and that's kind of where

995
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 7: the foll A comes into it too, is because you

996
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 7: know that we know that foll aid abnormalities will cause

997
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 7: problems with replicating DNA. So so we know that there's

998
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 7: two sides of it. One not having enough of good

999
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 7: stuff and having too much of bad stuff. So so

1000
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 7: these are very complex. So that's why you can't really

1001
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 7: say it's this or it's that. It's really this complex

1002
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 7: tup of things that have changed in our society, both

1003
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 7: probably poor nutrition and also may be more toxins too.

1004
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 4: Could you give me a couple of examples of real

1005
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 4: lived experiences that would actually change somebody's genetics, because, because

1006
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 4: you're right, we sort of think of genetics as being

1007
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 4: the set you know, formula, this is you've got, this

1008
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 4: is your sequence of DNA, it's set for life. You're

1009
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 4: saying those genetic mutations can happen in a human ing

1010
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 4: lived experience. Would it be the cleaners that you use

1011
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 4: inside your home? Is it smoking? Is it drinking too much?

1012
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 4: Is it a traumatic experience? Is it stress? Like what

1013
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 4: can make somebody's.

1014
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, all of the above, right, I mean, you know

1015
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 7: that's where we think of it, and not on the

1016
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 7: autism of cancer. Right, many times we have cancer because

1017
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 7: something has happened to the genetics of some of the cells.

1018
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 7: And it's more of the cells that are replicating. So

1019
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 7: some of our cells don't replicate, you've made them there there,

1020
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 7: But there's also cells that renew themselves, and many of

1021
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 7: those are the ones that are more likely to have

1022
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,479
Speaker 7: those changes because they're making new DNA all the time,

1023
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 7: and what are those for mends that that's making the

1024
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 7: reproductive cells the sperm, We're making them all the time,

1025
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 7: so those are going to be more susceptible to having

1026
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 7: those mutations.

1027
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm along the.

1028
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: Way understood now, that's super helpful to know.

1029
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 4: So it's basically like a very complex situation just got

1030
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 4: way more complicated, right, because exactly it's now more difficult

1031
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: because of our evolving understanding of the way the human

1032
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 4: genome works and the way cell replication replication works and

1033
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 4: DNA replication works, that you could identify multiple nodes along

1034
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 4: the life cycle of reproduction and development where you could

1035
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 4: isolate a potential mutation which could then lead to autism

1036
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 4: or other abnormalities.

1037
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 7: Right, And then we find that's just one piece of

1038
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 7: It's it's the gen ICs. Sometimes there's pure genetic syndromes.

1039
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 7: We know where it can be the genes that are

1040
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 7: very but then more likely it's a genetic predisposition, and

1041
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 7: then there's some type of environmental agent that interacts with

1042
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 7: that to predispose to change the way our bodies work.

1043
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 7: And we know that one of those major you know,

1044
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 7: the most probably the most influential.

1045
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 2: Environment you have is those nine months in your.

1046
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 7: Mother's belly, you know, so we know that that influences

1047
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 7: the way that the baby develops. And you know, there's

1048
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 7: been many links to certain types of both of course

1049
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 7: low folate, but also and types of environmental agents that

1050
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 7: can change the way that those cells develop and can

1051
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 7: change the physiology. And so that's and that's one of

1052
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 7: the mysteries we think of, you know, how do we

1053
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 7: have this heritability right with without having necessary those genetic mutations,

1054
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 7: you know, is because much of what we think is

1055
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 7: happening is that that mother, the environment in the mother

1056
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 7: is changing the way the baby develops. So you're actually

1057
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 7: inherit inheriting changes that are due to the environment you

1058
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 7: had in your mother's womb. And so let's say if

1059
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 7: the mother has a problem with having processing folates, let's

1060
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 7: say that's going to be transmitted to the baby.

1061
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 2: So the baby is.

1062
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 7: Going to develop that way with with abnormal folate metabolamy,

1063
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 7: and that baby is going to to change its development.

1064
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 7: Same thing with other types of outabolic disorders which we

1065
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 7: find that run in families that uh that environment in

1066
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 7: the mother's womb is going to be different. The fuels

1067
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 7: that the baby gets, the different types of metabolites that

1068
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 7: may be off because the mother isn't you know, metabolizing

1069
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 7: things as well.

1070
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 2: That changes the way the baby develops. For example.

1071
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 7: And one of the studies that we did, and this

1072
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 7: is associated with another study, it was a really good

1073
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 7: study by the the Mount Seini School of Medicine, some

1074
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 7: of my colleagues there. They did some really amazing research

1075
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 7: where they actually can take baby teeth and baby teeth

1076
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,280
Speaker 7: start to develop at the end of the first trimester started.

1077
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 7: So what you can do is you can go back

1078
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 7: and look at what's deposited in that teeth and tell what,

1079
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 7: tell what toxins, but also what nutrients the baby was

1080
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 7: exposed to. Interesting and so one of the things rings

1081
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 7: on exactly, exactly exactly. And so one of the first

1082
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 7: studies they did a very very nice study that was

1083
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 7: published in you know, Nature, one of the best journals,

1084
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 7: where they showed out of twins that the twin that

1085
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 7: developed autism that they were deficient in zinc and manganese

1086
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 7: in I think about the second or third trimester. So

1087
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 7: for some reason that nutrient wasn't getting to that baby,

1088
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 7: and there was changes in the physiology that baby. We

1089
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 7: actually showed when we you know, were very interested in

1090
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 7: mitochondrial function, we showed that the function of the mitochondria

1091
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 7: as a child was actually correlated with those levels of

1092
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 7: maganeses and zinc that they had prenatally. So this is

1093
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 7: a change that happened prenatally that then probably programmed the

1094
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 7: physiology how the body works long term.

1095
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 4: So what was the difference could they tell between the

1096
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 4: two twins?

1097
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, so so that was divided mitochondria.

1098
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 7: So so we found that, well, they found that there

1099
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 7: was the zinc and manganese, and we found that those

1100
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,439
Speaker 7: nutrients correlated with mitochondrial function later on in life.

1101
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 4: And know was that a genetic I guess predisposition of

1102
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 4: the of the autistic.

1103
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: Right, So we don't. And so that's still an open question.

1104
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 7: Why did that twin, you know, get more of those

1105
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 7: nutrients or less?

1106
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: Letting everyone out socialism sucks the Charlie Kirk Show.

1107
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 7: All we know is that they tended to get more

1108
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 7: or less of those nutrients for some reason. And so

1109
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 7: then you have to go back and ask why why

1110
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 7: was one delivered to one child and not the other.

1111
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 8: So in regards to mitochondria diseases, if you are pre

1112
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 8: if a mom is predisposed to a mitochondrial exce link disease,

1113
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 8: what would you suggest or is there anything that that

1114
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 8: mom can do if she's planning on having a baby,

1115
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 8: if she's currently pregnant, to help minimize those risks of

1116
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 8: the baby inheriting that disease.

1117
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, well, first of all, if it's a genetic disease,

1118
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,959
Speaker 7: you know, yeah, you know. So we divide these into

1119
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 7: what we call mitochondrial disease and mitochondrial dysfunction. So what

1120
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 7: we find is that some type of mitochondrial disease is

1121
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 7: due to actually problems with the genes, you know, and

1122
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 7: the genes that run the mitochondria. What we're finding is

1123
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 7: that there's many other diseases, including autism, where the mitochondria

1124
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 7: isn't working well because other parts of the body aren't

1125
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 7: working well. So it's trying to compensate for other factors

1126
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 7: that are not working correctly in the cell, so it

1127
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 7: might be working harder. So we actually find that some

1128
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 7: kids with autism, their mitochondria actually works twice as hard

1129
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 7: as it should be. And it puts it in actually

1130
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 7: in a more vulnerable state. Is that we found some

1131
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 7: have this more mitochondria that work not very well, and

1132
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 7: that's more of the mitochondrial disease standpoint. So yeah, there's

1133
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 7: so there's two aspects of it. If if a mother

1134
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 7: has mitochondrial disease, if they have the child has that gene,

1135
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 7: you know, then you know they're going to be more

1136
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 7: predisposed for their child's body not to work well. But

1137
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 7: if they don't have that gene, we have to make

1138
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 7: sure that the abnormalities and metabolism and the mother is

1139
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 7: not interfering with the baby the way the baby grows.

1140
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 4: So is this like the the new front line the

1141
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 4: forefront of the research that's going on with autism is

1142
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 4: how to identify these abnormalities prenatally and treat them.

1143
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, in the womb right exactly right, preconception, you know,

1144
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 7: So if we can figure out you know, right, So

1145
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 7: we're finding is that many of these metabolic disorders and

1146
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 7: inflammatory disorders run in fair families, you know, and they

1147
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 7: may be influencing the baby when and when the baby

1148
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 7: is growing, you know, uh, you know, prenatally. But if

1149
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 7: you can go back and identify those things before time,

1150
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 7: you know, and control them, then you have a much

1151
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 7: better chance of the child. It could be supplements. Yeah,

1152
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 7: so so there's there's really.

1153
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 3: What are the treatments?

1154
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: Yes, so I would say.

1155
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 7: For really very simple things, okay in this and you know,

1156
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 7: and we've written some blogs on this that it's not

1157
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 7: even that difficult because we know things that that predisposed

1158
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 7: to autism and intellectual disability. You know, folate, you know,

1159
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 7: iron iron deficiency, you know, thyroid abnormalities, you know, and

1160
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 7: cornantine cornantines.

1161
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: Really that's a really important.

1162
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,959
Speaker 7: Vitamin that helps with what we call fatty acid metabolism,

1163
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 7: but it's also important for clearing a lot of toxic

1164
01:01:58,200 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 7: molecules from your body.

1165
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: So it's really important.

1166
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 4: So I have like a thousand questions. Yeah, I'm sorry,

1167
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 4: I was just like my brain is spinning. So say

1168
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 4: you're twenty eight year old couple and you're thinking we're

1169
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 4: about ready to start a family, maybe you're twenty five.

1170
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 4: Could they go to a doctor like you and be like, hey,

1171
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 4: run some tests, see what I'm predisposed to. And you

1172
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 4: would do some blood work and you would test their

1173
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 4: levels and you'd be like Okay, you're good, good, good.

1174
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 4: There's a little bit of lightness here. You're not in

1175
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 4: a fol aid or there maybe some indications there's a

1176
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 4: mitochondrial situation or this vitamin I can't even remember.

1177
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: The carnity, Yeah, cantin.

1178
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 4: So here's some supplements here, try and switch your diet

1179
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 4: like this. I mean is that essentially you know you've

1180
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 4: got a diyroid situation, so we want to deal with

1181
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 4: it right, And you would do this pre trying to

1182
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 4: conceive a child.

1183
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 7: And yeah, so that's the idea, is that preconception. You

1184
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 7: actually look at how the body is working, to optimize

1185
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 7: the way the body works, and then you do things

1186
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 7: that are smart. There's another foundation I work with called

1187
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 7: the Neurologic Health Foundation. We have something called the Healthy

1188
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 7: Child Guide, and so we what we did is really

1189
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 7: review the literature to see what evidence there is, you know,

1190
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 7: even vitamin D. So there's really simple things.

1191
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 3: Talking about vitamin D all the time.

1192
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's not waslie about COVID but yeah, it

1193
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 4: was a big believer in it.

1194
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, but these are simple things you know that you

1195
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 7: don't have to do any fancy tests or anything. They're

1196
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 7: very simple things that if you watch, you know, and

1197
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 7: you make sure you get ahead of the game, you

1198
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 7: know that you can increase the chances of your child

1199
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 7: being healthy without chronic disease. We find a lot of

1200
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 7: these things not only really to autism, but other types

1201
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 7: of chronic disease, especially inflammatory disease like asthma and eczema

1202
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 7: and all these.

1203
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 4: Other So are there genetic markers that you could also

1204
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 4: screen for? Like when me and my wife we you know,

1205
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 4: had our first child, our daughter, we you know r

1206
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 4: obgyn did a genetic screen to see if we had

1207
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 4: any inheritable diseases. We didn't, thank god, But could you

1208
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 4: do a test like that? That is a new iteration

1209
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 4: of it that would test for you know, is that

1210
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 4: does that test exist when it comes to autism to

1211
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 4: see how likely you might be in certain risk factors

1212
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 4: or whatever.

1213
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 7: Well, so there's a so there's a difference between two things.

1214
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 7: There's mutations. So when they do those genetic tests, they

1215
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 7: look for things called mutations, and and those are changes

1216
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 7: in the genome that will absolutely cause some type of disease.

1217
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 4: Both parents usually share the share the same market exactly.

1218
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 7: But there's now we're looking at things called polymorphisms. So

1219
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 7: polymorphisms are small changes in the gene that are very

1220
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 7: common and make your body work better or worse.

1221
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: Okay, and you can.

1222
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 7: What we try and do is look at these changes

1223
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 7: to see how maybe some of you know, if you

1224
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 7: have a pathway that has a number of weak spots

1225
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 7: week links, maybe you need to be supplemented in one

1226
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 7: way or the other. You know, And this is and

1227
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 7: it's very complex. So we combine this with not only

1228
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 7: looking at the genetic changes, because one of the problems

1229
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 7: with looking at combinations of genetic changes, right is you

1230
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 7: have twenty three thousand genes in your body. So you know,

1231
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 7: it's hard enough to look at all those twenty three

1232
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 7: thousand genes. Think if you're going to start to look

1233
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 7: at all those combinations, you know, So this is what's

1234
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 7: what's really kind of limited us in a lot of ways.

1235
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 7: So you have to be smart and how you look

1236
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 7: at those things. And then you really have to look

1237
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 7: at the biochemistry, that is, what do those changes do

1238
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 7: to the function of the cell.

1239
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 2: So it takes a lot of science.

1240
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 7: To come up with with really very definite recommendations. So

1241
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,919
Speaker 7: now we know some of these polymorphisms, how things work

1242
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 7: a little bit worse or better, but still the science

1243
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 7: of what that solution is develop is still developed.

1244
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 4: But that's what you are doing. Yeah, we're looking at

1245
01:05:55,400 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 4: that is the purpose almost of your professional career, right

1246
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 4: right right, looking how to take the science and then

1247
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 4: apply useful.

1248
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 7: Treatments exactly and and then if we can do things. Yeah,

1249
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 7: and that's that's the thing, is that these things may

1250
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 7: be preventable, and that's the only way we're going to

1251
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 7: reverse you know, the trends right now.

1252
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's just one other question on the trends.

1253
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 4: Do you notice a difference in boys versus girls as

1254
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 4: far as autism rates? It seems to be a my

1255
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 4: impression at least is more boys are getting it in well.

1256
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 7: Definitely more boys have autism or diagnosed with autism and girls.

1257
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 7: And there's different theories of why that, you know, maybe.

1258
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 3: Which prescribe to most. Are you open mind?

1259
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 2: I'm open minded? Yeah.

1260
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 3: What are some of the theories?

1261
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 7: Well, I mean some people think that it has to

1262
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 7: do with changes in the endocrine systems, so certain types

1263
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 7: of toxins can be endogrine modulators that change things. It

1264
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 7: may be that girls are more resilient. You know because

1265
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 7: X y right, they have two X chromosomes, so that

1266
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 7: they're they're more resilt.

1267
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 4: Levels up the redundancy, they have more redundancy victim.

1268
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 7: They think that, and some people just think that women

1269
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 7: are more their brains are more socially wired, so it's

1270
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 7: harder for their brains to change, so they have less

1271
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 7: you know, social abilities.

1272
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 2: They kind of are compensated already.

1273
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 4: Interesting, So and this is why why don't you come

1274
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 4: in here, Riley and explain for our audience, because I

1275
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 4: know it enough to be I would say fifty percent

1276
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 4: right here. But essentially, there was a big press conference

1277
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,439
Speaker 4: that came out earlier in the year RFK. It must

1278
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 4: have been a cabinet meeting basically said we're gonna we're

1279
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 4: doing a moonshot we've got We're going to find out

1280
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 4: what the cause of autism is. And this is going

1281
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 4: to take our conversation into this foll a taile and

1282
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 4: all this drug that we talked about. I always forget

1283
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 4: the name Luku Luca Luca of Orn, which is apparently

1284
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 4: amazing for a subset of autistic.

1285
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 3: Conditions. So give us, give us.

1286
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 4: The the update of doctor of the FDA, Doctor Marty

1287
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 4: McCarey came out and gave some presentation recently, and I

1288
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 4: think it sparked as much confusion as it did hope

1289
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 4: in clarification, So walk us through what he announced.

1290
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 8: Towards the end of September, RFK as well as FDA

1291
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 8: Commissioner doctor McCarey McCarry had announced this approval FDA approval

1292
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 8: for Luke of Warren to treat kids with autism. I

1293
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 8: think a lot of people thought at the time it

1294
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 8: wasn't very clarified as to if this is for all

1295
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:46,440
Speaker 8: autism cases or if this is just for a subset,

1296
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 8: if you could go into detail on how this isn't

1297
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 8: necessarily a cure all for autism, but it is a

1298
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 8: step in the right direction for where we are right now.

1299
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 7: Sure, So yeah, to clarify the announcement, the FDA is

1300
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 7: not approving it for autom so they are approving it

1301
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 7: for genetically confirmed cerebral full eight efficiency. And so that's

1302
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 7: kind of the model as we think many kids with

1303
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 7: autism have cerebral full eight deficiency, what we call insufficiency,

1304
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 7: not enough FOLL eight. So it's it's very different that

1305
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 7: genetically confirmed cerebral full eight efficiency there's about forty seven

1306
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 7: cases actually described, you know.

1307
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 3: And so you know, so kids are now approved to

1308
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 3: take luc right.

1309
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 7: And so yeah, and and and I get from the

1310
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 7: from the FDA, And you can understand, I mean, if

1311
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 7: they were to say, oh, I'm just going to suddenly

1312
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 7: approve this drug, you know, I mean, that would just

1313
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 7: open up a you know, a Pandora's box of you know.

1314
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 7: So they what they did is they looked at these

1315
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 7: forty seven cases, you know that where and when you

1316
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 7: have that you know, those few cases there what we

1317
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 7: call case studies. So we have very dense clinical data

1318
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 7: that shows, okay, you give this medication, this is exactly

1319
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 7: what it does to the body. You know, so we

1320
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 7: can definitely say, you know why this happened then, and

1321
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 7: this actually was a therapeutic agent. So when you look

1322
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 7: at large numbers like kids with autism, you don't have

1323
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 7: that very granular data where you can see that. So

1324
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 7: so the idea of lukavorin, So lukavorn is a type

1325
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 7: of folate vitamin B nine. And it's really important for

1326
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 7: everybody to understand that that lukavorin and and what we

1327
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 7: call reduce folates are very different than folic acid, So

1328
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 7: we think of folic acid, that's the folate that we take.

1329
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 7: Folic acid is the synthetic form of the drug, and

1330
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 7: and uh, there's certain caveats because of that. Because of that,

1331
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 7: our body has to actually activate it for folic acid

1332
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 7: to be useful in the body, and we have an

1333
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 7: upper limit to how much we can activate and certain uh,

1334
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 7: you know, estimates have put that about four hundred micrograms,

1335
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 7: which is what's in kind of a high dose multi vitamin.

1336
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 7: So if you need extra foliate in your body, if

1337
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 7: you have some type of follid deficiency or your body

1338
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:15,440
Speaker 7: systems need extra folate, you can't do that with fullic acid.

1339
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 3: Because you can only process so.

1340
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 7: Much exactly exactly, so you have to use special types

1341
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 7: of foliate like lukavorin.

1342
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 2: Some people use five hyperpetro hydrofoli. You know.

1343
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 7: Lucavorin is something that's been around for eighty years almost

1344
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 7: so it's been used to treat to rescue the body

1345
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 7: from the side effects of chemotherapy. Okay, so we've used

1346
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 7: it for eighty years in oncology, we can if you've

1347
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 7: injected it, and I.

1348
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 4: Was that because that treatment created a full.

1349
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 2: Of Yes, exactly.

1350
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, so so we know that cancer cell is one

1351
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 7: of the ways that they grow quickly is that they

1352
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 7: need a lot of folate. So one of the treatments

1353
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 7: is to block folate. But then you don't want the

1354
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 7: body to get sick, so you have to you know,

1355
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 7: supplement full eight that so so, so lucavorn has been

1356
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 7: around a long time. So that's one of the reasons

1357
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 7: that it was started to be used because it's really

1358
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 7: a known quantity. So that's great, you know, we're starting

1359
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 7: out with something that we know. So what what was

1360
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 7: found is that some kiddos with autism had what we

1361
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,679
Speaker 7: call cerebral full eight efficiency. And this was going back

1362
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 7: to about two thousand and five or so. So yeah,

1363
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 7: it's it's it's well, no, it's actually not the forty

1364
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 7: seven cases because it's very interesting when this was first

1365
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 7: discovered that that there was low folate. As I had mentioned,

1366
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,719
Speaker 7: you know, we do lumbar punctures, we find there's low folate.

1367
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 7: And so a doctor by the name of doctor Rainmakers

1368
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 7: in Europe discovered this and he noticed that these kids

1369
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 7: that either weren't developing or actually had regressed, had lost

1370
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 7: skills very early on. He did lumbar punction. He found

1371
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 7: there was low folate and we know that the major

1372
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 7: way that full aate gets into the brain because everything

1373
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 7: that is the brain has to be carried there, there's

1374
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 7: a big barrier is this thing called the foll eate

1375
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 7: receptor alpha. And so he said, okay, that was his

1376
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 7: first idea was there must be a genetic problem with it,

1377
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 7: and so he sequenced a gene in these cases. He

1378
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 7: didn't find any genetic mutations. So that's when he collaborated

1379
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,919
Speaker 7: with doctor Edward Quatros, who's at Sunny Downstate in Brooklyn,

1380
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 7: who actually had been working on that same full a

1381
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 7: transport mechanism but for women's health, and had discovered that

1382
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 7: there's this antibody that the body makes. So you know,

1383
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 7: antibodies usually you know, attack viruses and bacteria and such,

1384
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 7: but this but sometimes you're he makes anybody's against yourself.

1385
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 7: So you found that some people had this antibody that

1386
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 7: attached to this mechanism, this pump that brings folid into

1387
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 7: the brain.

1388
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 2: And so they tested those kids for.

1389
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 7: That antibody and they found that that yes, indeed, most

1390
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 7: of those kids had this antibody. And that's the reason

1391
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 7: why fullate wasn't getting into their brain?

1392
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:32,799
Speaker 3: Interesting?

1393
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 2: How So that's what so luc of worn.

1394
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 7: So, so what's interesting is so the levels of folid

1395
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 7: in the brain are two to three times higher than

1396
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 7: they are on the blood. So what's important about the

1397
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 7: full receptor alpha is that it actually pulls follid into

1398
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 7: the brain. So it has to pull it uphill right

1399
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 7: because of the higher concentration. So if that's not working,

1400
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 7: how do you get full aid into the brain. Well,

1401
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 7: there's something called to reduce full a carrier, which is

1402
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 7: a backup system, but it doesn't like fol aid as

1403
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 7: much and it doesn't pump foliated into the brain. It's

1404
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,600
Speaker 7: kind of like a tube. So I say, like the

1405
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 7: full eight receptor alpha is kind of like a fire

1406
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 7: hose that puts full aid into the brain, and the

1407
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 7: reduced folly carrier is like a straw. So now what

1408
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 7: we have to do is we have to push full

1409
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 7: aight through that straw and a special type of folid

1410
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 7: it only transports reducee fol eight. So what we have

1411
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 7: to do is increase in the blood levels of reduced

1412
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,599
Speaker 7: fold AD and essentially now push it into the brain. Okay,

1413
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 7: to restore those levels and so that's what that's where

1414
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 7: luc of worn comes in.

1415
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1416
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 4: So is luca of oren just a special type this

1417
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 4: what was the second type of.

1418
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 2: Reduce reduced fol aid useful?

1419
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 3: It is that what it is?

1420
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a special You're.

1421
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 4: Just flooding the system with essentially, yeah, which is making

1422
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 4: it easier for this backup system to have enough to

1423
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 4: sort of ex through the tube into the.

1424
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 7: Brain exactly to balance out the chemistry and the brain exactly.

1425
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 7: And the great thing about B vitamins is there what

1426
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 7: we call water soluble, so at the end of the

1427
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 7: day you pee them out. Sure, so they have your

1428
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 7: body has a safety mechanism where you can't they can't

1429
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,679
Speaker 7: build up in your body. So that makes them very safe, Okay,

1430
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 7: and we say, like the worst you can do is

1431
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 7: make expensive p.

1432
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 4: Right right exactly. So this is kind of full circle

1433
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 4: to this. My friend's son who is nonverbal to four

1434
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 4: or five years old, and it obviously was terribly stressful

1435
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 4: for the parents. And you know, they were asking questions

1436
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 4: because we got this vaccine, did we over you know

1437
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 4: that those were where their heads went, did we overdo

1438
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 4: the vaccines? And so luca of orn comes in within

1439
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 4: the last I guess month, and all of a sudden,

1440
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 4: verbal skills are developing with their son, and they are

1441
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 4: over the moon ecstatic. I mean, it's every day a

1442
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 4: new word or a couple of new words. And I've

1443
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 4: seen some of these videos of them. Mo I'm just

1444
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 4: so excited, you know, because she loves her little boy

1445
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 4: so much, of course, and all of a sudden watching it,

1446
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 4: and it's because of this drug. So you're saying that

1447
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 4: probably it's or at least it's possible that this kid

1448
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 4: and I have not asked follow up questions of you know,

1449
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 4: the diagnosis, but what you're seeing a lot is that

1450
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 4: there's actually an antibody that is working against the body's

1451
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,560
Speaker 4: ability to get fol eight through mechanism one, yes, the

1452
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 4: normal mechanism into the brain, which which is helping with

1453
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 4: verbal processing and social skills.

1454
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, okay, so.

1455
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 4: That's probably the diagnosed you would you would probably guess, right.

1456
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 7: So what we find now there's other reasons too, So

1457
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 7: that's kind of the most prevalent and straightforward reason.

1458
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 2: Now.

1459
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 7: Also, as I said that this full a receptor alpha

1460
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 7: actually pulls FOLLY into the brain, so that takes energy.

1461
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 7: So it ends up that if from the mitochondriasm working

1462
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 7: that also that's another reason. And so and we found

1463
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 7: that in individuals with mitocon disorders that have cognitive issues,

1464
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 7: actually that that is the mechanism sometimes that they have

1465
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 7: some cognitive issues, and there's another mechanism that we can

1466
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 7: help those souls.

1467
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 3: Describe what mitochondria is.

1468
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,440
Speaker 4: Just for people who don't know, I mean, the mitochondria

1469
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 4: is like a weird thing to be because it doesn't

1470
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 4: have its own DNA and it's it's like it does

1471
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 4: power center of the cell. And I mean there's like

1472
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 4: crazy theories about where mitochondria came from, and we don't

1473
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 4: need to go into that, but like, just explain what

1474
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 4: mitochondria is.

1475
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, So, so mitochondria we think of it as the

1476
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 7: powerhouse of the cell. It makes the energy currency of

1477
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 7: the cell called ATP ATP, so it takes it can

1478
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 7: usually takes carbohydrates, but it takes fats also, it can

1479
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 7: take amino acids and take all these things and it

1480
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 7: can make energy. But and your cell has anywhere from

1481
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 7: hundreds to tens of thousands of minochondra depending on cell,

1482
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 7: each cell, each cell, so you have many of.

1483
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 4: Them, and it's different neetically from.

1484
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 2: So it has its own it has its own genome

1485
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 2: to it.

1486
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 4: Which makes a complex situation incredibly much.

1487
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 3: It's much more complex.

1488
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 4: Because you not only have your DNA than you have mitochondria.

1489
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 2: Which you inherit from your mother. And then it ends

1490
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 2: up that not all of.

1491
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 7: Mitochondra that you have, if you have a hundred mitochondra,

1492
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 7: not all of them may have the same DNA, Some

1493
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 7: may have mutations on it, and we call that heteroplasmy

1494
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:31,120
Speaker 7: So that's that makes it even more complex to understand

1495
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 7: how you know, mitochondrial DNA and MI Chondrial inheritance goes

1496
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 7: on top of what we call medelion inheritance. So, and

1497
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 7: the mitochondria DNA also is very sensitive. It's more sensitive

1498
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,600
Speaker 7: to environmental stressors.

1499
01:19:45,600 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 2: Okay,