1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: One hot August afternoon in twenty seventeen, Louis Garcia was 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: helping his friend John K built a wheelchair ran for 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: John's girlfriend Rexina at their house in San Antonio. 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: Suddenly, Bear County police showed up with a search warrant. 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 2: They took Louis and John inside, cuffed them, and quickly 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: found a stash of drugs that were hidden in the house. 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: Bodycam footage later showed more drugs on the floor near 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Louie's feet. 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: John, Rixina, and Louis were all arrested in charge with 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: drug possession and trafficking. Louie insisted he knew nothing about it. 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: Those drugs on the floor didn't belong to him. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 3: This wasn't even his house, But. 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: His lawyer said it didn't look good. If they went 14 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: to trial and the jury saw that footage, Louie could 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 2: be facing twenty five years to life. Reluctantly, he pled 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: guilty and got a lighter sentence. 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 3: I mean, after all, the drugs were right there on camera. 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: But this is wrong for conviction, all right, Welcome back 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: to wrongful conviction. We are guest hosting Dave. 20 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 3: My name is Greg Glatt and English. 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: You might recognize our voices from the War on Drugs 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: podcast that Clayton and I co host, and you know, 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: we're really excited to share the story that we have 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: for you today on wrongful conviction because I really think 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: it aligns to a lot of things that we're talking 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: about there, you know, perverse incentives within the criminal justice system, 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: within the drug war that lead to devastating consequences, and 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: in the case that we have today, an actual wrongful conviction. 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: There really isn't a greater example than Louis Garcia, who 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: was the subject and victim of wrongful conviction in the 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: San Antonio of Texas. So we have Louis here and 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: we also have his attorney, Dana Jones. Guys, thank you 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: so much for being on the Wrongful Conviction podcast. 34 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much for having us. 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's just kind of get into it a 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: little bit. Louis, let's talk about prior to the incident here, 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen. You know, where were you born, 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: where'd you grow up? 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 5: I was born in San Antonio. I went to school, 40 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 5: I played ball, I lifted a lot of weights, and uh, 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 5: you know, I was just enjoying myself dating off. 42 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: And on any minor run ins with the law things 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 2: like that. 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 5: I've had run into with the law before, and it's 45 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 5: it's just you know, like when you're in your early 46 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 5: twenties and you started drinking alcohol. So I've had some 47 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 5: run into with the authorities and yeah, you know I've yeah, 48 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 5: I cauld say I've learned some of my lessons. 49 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: Typical stuff for being a young for being a young adult. 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: Like you said, you start drinking, you get you know, 51 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: you're irresponsible at that age. You get pulled over for 52 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: tail lights tags, and then something else goes on. But 53 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: it's not like this was your life or you were 54 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: in and out of the system before. 55 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 5: No, I was, that's just electrician. I had a real 56 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 5: good job. I was running jobs, I was I was 57 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 5: doing everything, you know, I was going down a good path. 58 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: Right, So when all of this went down August of 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, you were like, what forty five years old. Yeah, 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: you were living in San Antonio working, you know, doing 61 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: your thing, electrician work, and you were friends with a 62 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: couple of your neighbors, John Kate and Rexina Lenon Wadez 63 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: who lived across the street. 64 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, my neighbors are great sometimes I have barbecue, sometimes 65 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 5: they do, and we'll send plates back and forth. I'm 66 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 5: the kind of guy that you invite to the barbecue 67 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 5: and bring your tools, right, So I'm like, okay, So 68 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 5: I'm always out there, you know, having a good time. 69 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: Gotcha. And Mexina, who also went by Mona. You helped 70 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: her out a lot. You know, she had lost her 71 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: legs to diabetes. She was in a wheelchair, and in fact, 72 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: this one day, you'd actually seen her fall off her 73 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: ramp to get into her house because the ramp was 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: in you know, pretty rough shape, right. 75 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 5: Yeah. Then I go across the street and start helping 76 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 5: her up, and I started looking at this little just 77 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 5: you know, whatever you want to call it that was built. 78 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 5: It was just a bunch of scrap would put together. 79 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 5: And I looked around and I told her, you know, Mona, 80 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 5: I'll help you build all this up and clean your 81 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 5: fence up. 82 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: And you were like, hey, let me get this together 83 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: so this won't happen again. 84 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 5: And yeah, So I had extra plywood two by fours 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 5: and a lot of stuff out there that we could have. 86 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 5: We were going to build her a better round, and 87 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 5: she she was excited about it, but she keept on 88 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 5: telling me, I can't pay you. I can't pay you. 89 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 5: And I told her, you know, well, on the first 90 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 5: of the month when you get your food stamp. So 91 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 5: you know, I'm a real sucker for some chicken mole. 92 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 5: She goes, oh, I can make that. I can say. 93 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: We'll be good man. Listen, home cooked meal. Sometimes that's 94 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: more than enough for a hard day's work. So that's 95 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: what you and Mona's boyfriend, John Cape were up to 96 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: that day, August tenth, twenty seventeen. 97 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,119 Speaker 3: You're out in front of their house. 98 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: You're building a new wheelchair ramp, and Mona had gone 99 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: off to the dollar store to you know, grab some 100 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: snacks and some gatorade for you guys. 101 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 5: Right, yeah, And while we were, you know, putting everything together. 102 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 5: I don't know who the guy was, but uh this, uh, 103 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 5: you know, John was communicating with him and he told 104 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 5: him that, hey, do you mind if my daughter uses 105 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 5: the restroom. She had a pink backpack with her and 106 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 5: they go inside. John comes right back out with me 107 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 5: and we're taking stuff apart and they leave. And another 108 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 5: thing that caught my eyes. She didn't have a backpack 109 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 5: this time. 110 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: So this guy who you didn't know, and daughter has 111 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: a backpack, come up and say, hey, just need to 112 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: use the rest room. You guys are just being good 113 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: host and let them in. Daughter comes back out, no 114 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: backpack on her. 115 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 5: No backpack on the way back out. 116 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 117 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 5: And as soon as you hear their car take off 118 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 5: of the block, and I looked up and I just 119 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 5: see a Bear County Sheriff sticker on the side of 120 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 5: a vent and everybody starts jumping out. And I told John, Amen, 121 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 5: we're in the RAI dude. 122 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: So Dane, let me throw it to you for some 123 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: background here. Can you kind of run through the facts 124 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: of the case, Like what's going on at this point? 125 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the listener like, why are the 126 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: cops even here? 127 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 4: So Bear County Narcotics Division it goes and gets a 128 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: search warrant for the house where Louis happened to be. 129 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 4: Louie did not live there at all. They relied on 130 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 4: a confidential informant to get into this particular house with 131 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 4: really nothing corroborating the confidential informance information at all. This 132 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 4: confidential informant had never been relied on before. How they 133 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 4: made this person credible in the FI David was that 134 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 4: they had conducted a controlled buy for the officer. The 135 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 4: officer says he met with the informant, gave the informant 136 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 4: an undisclosed amount of US currency, dropped the informant off 137 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 4: down the road, and observe the informant go into a location. 138 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 4: Then they later picked up the informant and he had drugs. 139 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 5: Wow. 140 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying that the informant had never been 141 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: used as a CI or anything before first time, and 142 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,679 Speaker 1: they're just going off somebody's word. Who essentially, you dropped 143 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: them off somewhere, you saw him go in a place 144 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: in later on they had drugs, and you will equate 145 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: that to them being credible. 146 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 3: That's crazy. 147 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 4: I mean, that doesn't even prove that the person knows 148 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 4: what drugs are. They just went in there and said, 149 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 4: here's money, give me, give me meth. And then they're like, 150 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: they came back with meth, they must know what it is. 151 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 4: But that's essentially what it was. That's the credibility there. 152 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 4: That information got police lawfully into a house. I mean 153 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 4: lawfully in the sense of that's the paperwork the judge 154 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 4: signed off on. This got them into a house, took 155 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 4: people down, searched their house made a rest base on that, 156 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 4: and you. 157 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: Know, this is the kind of problem that we see 158 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: with a lot of these warrants, and Clayton, I'm sure 159 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: you're thinking what I'm thinking. We did an episode of 160 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: the War on Drugs podcast called The War at Your 161 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: Door on no knock warrants, and this is not a 162 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: no knock warrant, but it has a lot of those 163 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: similarities to it. It kind of has that same feel. 164 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, no, it definitely has that no knock feel. 165 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: It reminds me of what Radley Balco talked about on 166 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: our episode that we had. 167 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it feels exactly like that. And really, 168 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: you know, judges are supposed to be this check a 169 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: lot of these warrants and they just the kind of 170 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: rubber stant them quite a bit. And you really look 171 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: at a lot of the evidence that comes to allow 172 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: the government just to barrel into your door not announcing themselves, 173 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: and how shoddy and minor that is. And then you 174 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: look at a case like this and you're using an untested, untrained, 175 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: confidential format has all the incentive of the world to 176 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: essentially do things to get themselves off, and you're rubber 177 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: stamping these things and the consequences of that. I think 178 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: it's just it's a pretty scary, scary circumstances one that 179 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: you know, we could all find ourselves there. You know, 180 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: Louis was just doing a good deed for a neighbor 181 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: and look at the circumstances that he found himself. 182 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, justice being served out in the name of a 183 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: lie is scary anyway, exactly, all right, So Louis, let's 184 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: wind it back a minute. You and John are building 185 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: the ram. The guy and his daughter come in use 186 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: the bathroom and take off, and police show up in 187 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: a hot second with his warrant. 188 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 3: What happened next? 189 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 5: They started cuffing us up and they secured the location. 190 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 5: And uh, I have been from the back like everybody 191 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 5: else does, and I already on the floor. Well I 192 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 5: look up and I just an officer comes and he 193 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 5: jumps on top of me and he messes up my 194 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 5: right shoulder and you know, I can't lift it up 195 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: over my shoulders right now. And I was like, man, 196 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 5: what did you do that for? 197 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 4: Man? So almost immediately they go back to the bathroom 198 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 4: and they come back and they're like, what's this With 199 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 4: a huge, large quantity of drugs and that's exactly where 200 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 4: this guy and his little girl with the backpack had 201 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 4: just gone and they supposedly found it between like there 202 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 4: was like a loose board in the wall and like 203 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 4: in a hole and that's where they found it. 204 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: Wow, So was this We don't know about these people? 205 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: Are they because I'm gonna say what it looks like 206 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: and what it sounds like is this. 207 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 3: Dude came in with his daughter and planet drugs in there. 208 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 5: So I'm just sitting there and everything, and then they 209 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 5: pointed me out and said, hey, get your drugs on 210 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 5: the floor. And you guys been looking at me the 211 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 5: whole time. My hands have been handcuffed, and so they 212 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 5: they jump on me again and they some some narcotics 213 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 5: that were found on the floor and they were saying 214 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 5: it's fine. I was like, I said, no, it's not one. 215 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 5: That's that. 216 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 4: What he's talking about is when they handcuffed him, they 217 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 4: took they led them in its on body camp into 218 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 4: it inside to sit on a couch and you can 219 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 4: kind of see the general area. There's an officer sitting 220 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 4: with them. The entire time. You don't see anything on 221 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 4: the ground. He's handcuffed the entire time, and when they 222 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 4: stand him up to leave, there's all of a sudden, 223 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 4: like a little bit of drugs sitting on the floor 224 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 4: next to him that was not there before. I don't 225 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 4: know how he could be sitting on a couch with 226 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 4: his hands behind him and next next to a police 227 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 4: officer and somehow get I mean, the implication to me 228 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 4: when I was reading the reports was he somehow pulled 229 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 4: these out of his pockets or something. But they were 230 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 4: accusing him of having this small quantity sitting next to 231 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 4: on the floor. Oh wow, that wasn't there when he 232 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 4: sat him down, Okay. 233 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: And then right about then, that's when Xina came back 234 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: to the dollar store and saw everything that was going 235 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: on her. 236 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 3: So she came back to the race. 237 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 5: She came back in the middle of the race. 238 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: She came back police there, you win, coach. 239 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 5: And she sees like she starts cussing them out. What 240 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 5: the hell are y'all doing in my house? Is that? 241 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 5: You know, she might be in a wheelchair, but she's 242 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 5: gonna stand the ground sure, And she telling me, you 243 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 5: get the hell out of my house. I don't know 244 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 5: who y'all are. We're Bear County sheriff and hand know 245 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 5: the warrant and she knows she's in cups. 246 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 4: They were Bear County Narcotics Division, where the officers, interesting enough, 247 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 4: just a side piece of information is this is not 248 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 4: my first case overturning a Bear County narcotics case. Like 249 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 4: years ago, the same division they had some lying officers 250 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 4: who were in trouble and the same unit who were 251 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 4: just kind of making up information and on search warrants. 252 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 5: And God, I was. 253 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 3: Gonna ask that. 254 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, like they have a little bit 255 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: of history of being. 256 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 4: Dirty, at least with me, they do. I mean, not 257 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 4: every officer is bad. I can put that out there, 258 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 4: but I haven't had a good, really positive experience in 259 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 4: my career with that particular. 260 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: Unit, right, And there's been a history, like you said, 261 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: within Bear County. I know, back in what March twenty ten, 262 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: there was you know, I think two hundred and thirty 263 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: nine warnings of defensive hernees whose cases evolved to narcotics 264 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: deputies when they're accused of pocketing money that was supposed 265 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 2: to be paid to see is. And like you said, 266 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: there's been other cases there and so this is something 267 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if the term systemic. But there has 268 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,599 Speaker 2: been a routine within Bear County of this type of 269 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: stuff going on within their narcotics division. Correct, Yeah, okay. 270 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 4: So each one of them was charged with four to 271 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 4: two hundred grams, I believe is what the ultimate charge 272 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 4: ended up being with the intent to deliver, which in 273 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 4: Texas that elevates it up to another offense level range 274 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 4: of punishment. Everything. 275 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 5: So I wait to go see the lawyer, and that's 276 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 5: told the racina. She gave me an affidavit stating that 277 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 5: it's her house. Everything is found on the property is 278 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 5: she's solely responsible for. He looked at that thing and 279 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 5: he was like, you don't live there. They searched your stuff, 280 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 5: there was nothing found on your person. He goes, I'm 281 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 5: taking this all the way to trial, and this is 282 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 5: immediately dismissal. Oh man, I just that was a quarter 283 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 5: pointed telling me this man, I'm high five of him. 284 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 5: He goes, man, keep your nose clean. Stead He goes, 285 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 5: you're gonna beat your case. So I went hopping home, 286 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 5: skipping happy them go back to working again and helping 287 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 5: out and stuff like that. And there wasn't It wasn't 288 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 5: the same. When I went to court. 289 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 4: Eventually your bond got revoked and you were back in 290 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 4: jail waiting for these charges. And somehow, I don't know, 291 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 4: nobody can figure out, but his lawyers like switched and 292 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 4: he didn't have the same lawyer anymore, and he got 293 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 4: a new quarter appointed a lawyer. 294 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 5: He's already telling me, man, they don't look good. 295 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, man, whoa we go from? 296 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: This trial's about to get thrown The case gonna get 297 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: thrown out, So it doesn't look good. 298 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 5: They were ten years and I was like, what are 299 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 5: you serious? Ten years from having all this confidence about 300 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 5: me getting this case dismissed to this guy looking at 301 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 5: me like, swell, what can you say? You've been in 302 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 5: trouble before. And I'm just but this isn't mine. Wow, 303 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 5: in the eyes of the court, you're guilty and you're 304 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 5: gonna have to sign for something today. 305 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: So they immediately wanted you to take a plea yes. 306 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 5: And I just put my head down and just that's 307 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 5: when I started like thinking, like, maybe I need to 308 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 5: do this. Maybe I knew that maybe. And it wasn't 309 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 5: until this case got opened up about me having these 310 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 5: drugs that were found come to find out all these 311 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 5: police officers. None of them are credible in court. That's 312 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 5: the reason why they didn't want me to take this trial. 313 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: Wow, okay, okay, So this goes just going back to 314 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: what you were saying. They were trying to get you 315 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: to admit to those drugs in the house when they 316 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: put their knee on your chest and everything. They were 317 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: trying to get a mission then and then when you 318 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: got the first one saw it for what it was, 319 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: that it should be thrown out or whatever, then they 320 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: switched it to somebody that told you to take the plea. 321 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: And it just sounds like what we've talked. 322 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: About Greg on our podcast, with that whole system of 323 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: trying to get people to get through the system as 324 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: fast as possible, get them the plea, Like it's almost 325 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: shock and all, like we're trying to scare you into. 326 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 4: This, Like you know, I think there's also something to 327 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 4: be said there that when somebody is in custody already, 328 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 4: like his bond got revoked, he's in custody, the balance 329 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 4: of well, okay, if I just take the plea and 330 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 4: do a little bit of time, I can get out. 331 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 4: It's a lot easier to fight charges when you're actually 332 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 4: out of jail, you're working with your lawyer, you can 333 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,239 Speaker 4: have better meetings with them. There's a lot more discussion 334 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: that way. But when sometimes when you're in custody and 335 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 4: you have a lawyer who's like, look, not fighting for you, 336 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 4: but they're also not meeting with you. Because they're not, 337 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 4: you're not able to call their office and talk with them. 338 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 4: I think Louie and I have talked about this before, 339 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 4: just the okay, well if they want me to do 340 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 4: ten and he ended up getting eight years ultimately, But 341 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 4: you start running through I could do. I've been in 342 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 4: here a little bit of time already, I'm facing life 343 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: in prison for this amount of drugs. The reality is 344 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 4: you never know what a jury's going to do if 345 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 4: you can't get your case dismissed, and you start kind 346 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: of justifying to yourself, Okay, I can maybe make parole 347 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 4: in a couple of years, and those thoughts start going 348 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 4: through your mind. 349 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: So Louis, now we're over a year and a half 350 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: out from the actual arrest. You're initially thinking that this 351 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: is going to get dismissed. Those hopes that kind of 352 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: just start to dwindle, and then you have to accept 353 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: a plea deal on something that you know in your 354 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: heart you had nothing. 355 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 5: I was so twenty five to life if I take 356 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 5: this trial, and I'm like, you know, what do you say? 357 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 5: It's hard? And uh You're like, okay, I might beat 358 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 5: this one, but this one's over your opinion and what 359 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 5: are the chances? And you just put your and just 360 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 5: you know, I have to take this. I have to 361 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 5: take what they're offering me twenty five to life each case. 362 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 5: And it was like, I know I have a history, 363 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 5: it's it's you know, I've learned from the mistakes. I 364 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 5: have been making mistakes. And it's just like you totally couch. 365 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 5: If you get a cashp catch, you don't don't do 366 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 5: it this way. 367 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: Okay. So Louis pled out to serve eight years in prison, 368 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: and there was time served and all that. What about 369 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 2: the other two defendants, Mona and John? 370 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 4: So John ended up taking time in prison. I think 371 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 4: he got ten years on his case. And then they 372 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 4: call her Mona. Her official name is Rexina. Rexina was 373 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 4: very very ill. So John actually took a little bit 374 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 4: more time on his sentence so that Rexina could get probation. 375 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 4: That's kind of also another reason that these plea. Bargains 376 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 4: were all offered so that Rexina could get out because 377 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 4: of her health problems, and Louis and John recognized that. 378 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 4: So Rexina got out, she served her probation, and John 379 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 4: and Louis went off to start their sentences. 380 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 5: You get there, you already kind of got your mindset 381 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 5: on you know how, You're just going to tread through. 382 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 5: You don't want to get involved, you don't want to 383 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 5: stay out of the way, Go to the library, read books, 384 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 5: do this, and that's what you're mostly focused on. You 385 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 5: can't sit there and tell yourself that you know what 386 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 5: you do is wrong. You sold yourself out. You know 387 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 5: you had nothing to do with this. You know why 388 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 5: did you do what you did. I'm just here to 389 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 5: do my time. That's all in my mind for it. 390 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 5: There's a lot of disordering, chaos that goes on in there, 391 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 5: and you just don't want no part of it. You 392 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 5: don't conversate with certain people. You just leave all this 393 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 5: stuff alone. And every now and then you're gonna have 394 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 5: a class with these groups or with this or with that, 395 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 5: and it's how you deal it. You just got to 396 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 5: keep moving forward. I had a real tough time in there, 397 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 5: because I had a silly and you know, he was 398 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 5: five years older than I was, and we would talk 399 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 5: and next thing, I know, the more he's there and 400 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 5: we were just talking, talk and talk. Well he had 401 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: he was making some hooch when I was at the 402 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 5: library and they fought for the bottle or whatever it was, 403 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 5: and uh, you know my my CELLI you know he 404 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 5: was he died. He beating the death and uh, he 405 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 5: still bothers. It still bothers me today. But hey, do you. 406 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 4: Want me to tell this part? 407 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 5: Louis? Okay? 408 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: So they I've heard him tell this before and it's 409 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 4: really heartbreaking. But they basically brought him like a bucket 410 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 4: of water and told him to clean up the blood 411 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 4: that was in his cell himself. So it's his friend's 412 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 4: blood and he had to clean it all up. 413 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 5: I told him, I, I don't want to go in there. 414 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 5: I don't want to go in there. And they said, 415 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 5: aren't you coming up for parol? You know, I'm giving 416 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 5: you a direct order to get inside your cell. And 417 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 5: do you just do that? You know you don't want 418 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 5: to get in there, you know, Okay, you lose your 419 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 5: pearl nexture, you know, following year. So I put my 420 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 5: head down and I cleaned up the blood. 421 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: So, Dana, you get involved in this case in twenty nineteen, 422 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 2: can you know there's a parallel case to this that 423 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: is really tied into Louis. Can you kind of talk 424 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: about what you discovered between Louis case and obviously the 425 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: other case of Ruby Sandoval and which happened in October 426 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: that same year in San Antonio, Texas. 427 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 5: Yeah. 428 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 4: So, when I was asked by the Conviction Integrity Union 429 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 4: and then appointed by the judge to represent them, I 430 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 4: did reach out to Louis and John. I just wanted 431 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 4: to know what was going on, what their thoughts on 432 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 4: their own case were, and saying I'm looking into this. 433 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 4: This is what I've been told so far, but I 434 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 4: need to get some information. And both of their letters 435 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 4: back finally were kind of the same thing. We've always 436 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 4: said that this guy came into the house and he 437 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 4: must have planted the drugs because they weren't ours, and 438 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 4: it was a really weird situation and nobody believed us, 439 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 4: which it matched up with with Ruby's case as well. 440 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 4: So what I find out later is somebody had messaged 441 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 4: her or talked to her about storing like a box 442 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 4: or a bag, leaving it at her house for a 443 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 4: little while. She said, sure, that's fine. She had a 444 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 4: lot of text messages with this person. The person was like, 445 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 4: when are you going to be home? When are you 446 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 4: going to be home? You know that kind of stuff. 447 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 4: And as soon as she gets home, cops raid her 448 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 4: house with the search warrant and they find drugs in 449 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: this bag that this person asked to leave at her house. 450 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 4: So based on that, she starts immediately fighting her case. 451 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 4: And it takes her quite a while to prove to 452 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 4: the prosecutor and to everyone you know, with her lawyer, 453 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 4: get her text messages and everything in line to show 454 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 4: this person us have left the drugs here. 455 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 5: The state now. 456 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: Feels comfortable enough that that's what happened in her case. 457 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 4: So that prosecutor in her case went to a conviction 458 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 4: integrity unit that the DA's office has. They immediately pulled 459 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 4: every case that this confidential informant had worked on previously, 460 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: and it was Louis, Rexina and John's case. They sent 461 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 4: me a memorandum explaining everything that went on and why 462 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 4: they think that you know, what happened in John and 463 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 4: Louise case and Rexina's case might have happened just like 464 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 4: it happened in this other woman's case. 465 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: Wow, so the same informant, So the same playbook of 466 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: somebody comes by and leave something there and then the 467 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: police come the same county. 468 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 2: Well, no, it was. 469 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 4: It was the same informant, the same situation, same informant. Thankfully, 470 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: in her case, she had a bunch of text messages 471 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 4: from the individual and she was able to establish all 472 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 4: of that. 473 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha? Okay? What was the between Roxine and the 474 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: confidential informant? Like, was there a connection? Why would he 475 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: drawn to this house even plant things? Or was it 476 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: completely random? 477 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 4: I think that he knew John and Rexina just from 478 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 4: the neighborhood, is my understanding. They knew who he was, 479 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 4: but that was kind of the extent of it. Louie 480 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 4: didn't know who he was at all. 481 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 3: No, no, no, and that person used their daughter. 482 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 4: It just shows the lengths that confidential informants go to 483 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 4: to work off their own cases. 484 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: Gotcha, So was it readily apparent when you were kind 485 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: of reading through this and going through What were some 486 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: of the things that you feel could have nipped us 487 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 2: in the bud earlier? What was the kind of the 488 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: things that stood out to you. The most red. 489 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 4: Flag Number one to me was reading this search warrant, 490 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 4: that this is the first time they've ever used this 491 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 4: confidential informant. I don't think that they had enough to 492 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 4: get a search warrant based on that. I would have 493 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 4: challenged that the bodycam footage that what I had said earlier, 494 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 4: that they're trying to say that these drugs that are 495 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 4: near Louis but they weren't there before. 496 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 5: It isn't if you see the video, there's turn the 497 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 5: camera on and snaked your name and what's your address, 498 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 5: and then he turned it back off, then he turned 499 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 5: it back on, is that these drugs were found right here. 500 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 4: Officers that turn on and off their cameras or mute 501 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 4: their mics always red flag for me. It just all 502 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 4: seemed weird, and when something seems weird or off, there's 503 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 4: usually some problems there is, in my opinion, So there's 504 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: definitely was a lot to work with. 505 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, Okay, So you talked about Dana a lot 506 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 2: of the work that the Bear County Conviction Integrity Union 507 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 2: has done and the good work that they've done, and 508 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: they've actually been, you know, a really big bright spot 509 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: within the Prostitorial's office there can you talk about, you know, 510 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: what their involvement throughout this process with Louis once you 511 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: got into the case and how that looked. 512 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 4: So initially it was the chief of that office. She's 513 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 4: not there anymore. She works for a different court, but 514 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 4: Matt Howard is now the chief of the Conviction Integrity Unit. 515 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 4: I work with Matt quite a bit. I can't I 516 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 4: can't ever say that he and I always are going 517 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 4: to agree on every case, but I can assure you 518 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 4: that he gives everything a thorough review, and if it's 519 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 4: a wrongful conviction, he will stand up and say it's 520 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 4: a wrongful conviction. He's not afraid to do it. So 521 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 4: I really do commend the work our das Jo Gonzalez. 522 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 4: He didn't start the Conviction Integrity Unit, but he's kept 523 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 4: it going and really built on it, and they do 524 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: a great job of overturning wrongful convictions when the proof 525 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 4: is there. So in my work, when I file the claims, 526 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 4: I got every claim together that I could possibly file 527 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 4: for Louis and John and Rexina, and then I file 528 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 4: them in the writ, application and memorandum of law. From there, 529 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 4: I worked with the conviction Integrity Unit on what facts 530 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 4: and details we're going to agree to, and we put 531 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: those agreed orders together and we get those in front 532 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 4: of the judge. And we also had a great judge, 533 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 4: Judge Mesa here in town. She agreed on a lot 534 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 4: of this. She actually went even further than what the 535 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 4: Court of Criminal Appeals was willing to do. Judge Mesa 536 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 4: recommended that all three of them are actually innocent of 537 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 4: the charges. That's kind of the process when, especially when 538 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 4: we have agreed facts and agreed relief. The DA's office 539 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 4: here is willing to get on board and we file 540 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 4: a lot of agreed stuff together, which is unique. As 541 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 4: a defense attorney, it does feel weird to give so 542 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 4: much credit, but every DA's office, because of situations like this, 543 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 4: need conviction integrity units and true ones that are willing 544 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 4: to say our das messed up, our sheriffs messed up. 545 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 4: So they are they're willing to make those hard calls. 546 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 4: And the convection Integrity Unit here and I appreciate the 547 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 4: work that they do, especially on this case. 548 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: Oh Man, a conviction integrity unit, I think that that 549 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: needs to be implemented everywhere. 550 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 3: Man likes that's something that. 551 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: It's a resource I think that can hopefully get a 552 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: lot more cases overturned. 553 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, Clayton, I totally agree, and you know 554 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: we're seeing them pop up a lot more and more, 555 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: and yeah, to your point, we definitely need more oversight 556 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 2: on these things. 557 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 5: All right. 558 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: So, Dana, as you said, Judge Mesa recommended that Louis 559 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: and John's convictions be overturned and they should be found innocent. 560 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: But then it went up to the Texas Court of 561 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: Criminal Appeals. Can you explain what happened next? 562 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, the Court of Criminal Appeals for John and Louie 563 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 4: said no, that they should their case is overturned, but 564 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 4: they're not actually innocent, which it's it's a really high 565 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 4: difficult burden to prove with actual innocence. So I can 566 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 4: go into why they didn't. There were because in John's 567 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 4: house there was some little minor amounts of drugs that 568 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 4: were found, like personal use, small amounts like that, and 569 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 4: because they said that that's a lesser included of the 570 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 4: greater amount, they're not going to give them an actual 571 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 4: innocence finding. That's why they went that route. But Louie 572 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 4: didn't live there, and there was nothing directly linked to Louis. 573 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 4: I really felt like, at least in Louie's case, he 574 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 4: should have had the actual innocence finding in this case. 575 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 4: So since they don't get an actual innocence, it gets 576 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 4: sent back down to the trial court level, and the 577 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 4: DA's office immediately filed dismissals and all the cases just 578 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 4: to make it official that it's overturned and now dismissed officially. 579 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 4: So they don't have a conviction on their record for 580 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 4: these cases. 581 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: And because they are not found actually innocent, Texas law 582 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: does not allow them to be entitled a compensation because 583 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 2: of that. 584 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: Correct. 585 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 2: Correct, Have anyone, any officers or anyone else been disciplined 586 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 2: that were connected. 587 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 4: To this case, Not that I'm aware of. 588 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: Was the informant ever charged with anything about lying. 589 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: In this case? 590 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 4: No, not that I'm aware of. 591 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: Okay, And so we're now looking into what August twenty twenty, 592 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: Judge Maza finally finds for wrongful conviction and then Louis 593 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 2: you're released at the same time as John on bond 594 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 2: in September twenty twenty. 595 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: Yes, you had like kind of a turn, because you 596 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: sound like you kind of gave up and just like said, 597 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put my head down and do my time 598 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: into be walking free. 599 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 3: Man. What was that like? 600 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 5: It was the meeting my little grand baby, playing with 601 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 5: her is just I just started smiling, like be there 602 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 5: for my parents. You know, I'm the only son, I'm 603 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 5: big little brother, and so it's kind of, you know, 604 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 5: gonna go do what I'm'm supposed to be doing. 605 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 4: One other little kind of piece of sad part of 606 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 4: this whole case is the whole time that I represented Rexina, 607 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 4: she was on hospice care because of her illness, and 608 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: the day that the judge signed these orders for them, 609 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 4: like for her case to be overturned, it didn't need 610 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 4: to go up to the Quarter of Criminal Appeals, but 611 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 4: the day she signed it. I called the next day 612 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 4: after I got the order, and she had passed away 613 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 4: the night before, so I never got a chance to 614 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 4: tell Rexina her case was overturned. 615 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 5: Yeah. 616 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 4: The first thing that John and Louis did was they 617 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 4: were pall bearers at Rexina's funeral. 618 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. Her sister had told us that she knew, you 619 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 5: know that young guys are going to get out. She 620 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 5: was happy we got out. I think about a year 621 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 5: into my sentence she wrote me a letter I know 622 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 5: with her it is that probably took a lot out 623 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 5: of her. Even when I was incarcerated, we still kept 624 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 5: in touch what little she could say, because it was like, Hi, 625 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 5: thinking about you, how have you been? And pretty much 626 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 5: is it? You know, I still keep in touch with John. 627 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 5: I still keep in touch with Delma Rexina's sister. Yeah, 628 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 5: we're still, like, I guess, easing our way through this 629 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 5: and just slowly turning pages and moving forward. Wow. 630 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: Just an unbelievable story. I think this, this case really 631 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: does exemplify so much that's wrong with our criminal justice 632 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: system and the war on drugs and how these negative 633 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: incentives can really, you know, impact people's lives in such 634 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: a dramatic fashion that you know, you see where these 635 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: negative sentences can lie with the confidential informant and where 636 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: his incentives are are drawn from the detectives to garner 637 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: or two more convictions kind of fairly easily without kind of, 638 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: you know, really respecting someone's constitutional rights. It's such an 639 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: exemplification of all the negative that we see within the 640 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: criminal justice and the fact that we have, you know, 641 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: somewhat of a happy ending with Louis and how many 642 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: other thousands of people have probably gone through similar things 643 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 2: and never got this opportunity to actually be you know, 644 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: have their cases dismissed because there wasn't this commission integrity 645 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: or there's wasn't this piece of evidence. And so yeah, 646 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: I just want to thank you Louis for coming on 647 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 2: today and discuss this case. 648 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: Well that's one thing with our podcast, we don't have 649 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: a lot of happy ending. Yeah, so to have somebody 650 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: who's actually been through everything and come out the other 651 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: side and it's great. 652 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 3: So thank you, Thank you both, Louis. 653 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: Is there any call to action? Is there a go 654 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 2: fundme page? Is there a number for people can reach 655 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 2: out about you know you and your your your skills 656 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: as an electrician, anything else with that that we can 657 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 2: we can plug for you. 658 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 5: If anybody needs to help, we need some work or 659 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 5: stuff like that, you can go through Dana. It's all 660 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 5: right with her. 661 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 4: I'll be your secretary, Louis. 662 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 5: But I mean you need you need plumbing in the 663 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 5: electrical you need to fix your fence, and I ain't 664 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 5: gonna wash your dogs, but you know all that other 665 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 5: stuff like anything to keep uself busy, keep myself moving, 666 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 5: keep some guess it in the truck and a little 667 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 5: change in my bucket. I'm fine. 668 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: I'm looking at some curtains right now that are crooked 669 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 2: because I couldn't do that. You look at the whole 670 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: fucking house by yourself. God damn worthless. 671 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: Man, Come on, you gotta get your skills up. No, 672 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: I take that back. We got to get our skills, 673 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: that's what we think. We gotta get our skills up. 674 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 675 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: Man, Look, we've come to this segment of our show 676 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: called closing Arguments. Louis and Dana, thank you so much 677 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: for being here with us today. This is the last 678 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: segment of the show, so we turn it over to 679 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: YouTube for any final thoughts that you may have for 680 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: your closing arguments. So, Dana, why don't you start us off. 681 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 4: I always say that I would love to not do 682 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 4: this job anymore, only because I would love that there's 683 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 4: never another wrongful conviction ever. But there's always going to 684 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 4: be this job because humans are involved in this process, 685 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 4: in this system, the use of confidential informants really needs 686 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 4: to be questioned in every single case. If they're going 687 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 4: to do it, I don't personally think they should be 688 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 4: doing it, but that's I'm not a law enforcement officer. 689 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 4: Judges who review search Warren Affi Davids and arrest Warren 690 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 4: Affi Davids. I mean the whole process. Everybody needs to 691 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 4: have better training so that we can catch these things 692 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 4: on the front end and prevent them from ever even happening. 693 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 4: I just think, I hope and I love podcasts like 694 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 4: this where we're getting the word out that wrongful convictions 695 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 4: do happen. They absolutely do happen, and we can't just 696 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 4: incarcerate somebody and turn a blind eye anymore. That we 697 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 4: need to start working. So if there's any local organizations 698 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 4: innocence projects in your state or local community, get involved, 699 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 4: if you can donate. If you ever get called on 700 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 4: jury duty, really take it serious because you could be 701 00:33:58,880 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 4: deciding somebody's fate. 702 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 5: Keep your head up and keep going. You get enough 703 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 5: wrong two you're out there, you're doing right. So yeah, 704 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 5: I've had enough wrong done to me. So now it's just, 705 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 5: you know, I go out there and help out all 706 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 5: I can, and I don't hold any negativity, any grudge 707 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 5: or nothing like that. You know, I still have a 708 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 5: lot of respect for the law, and I still respect, 709 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 5: you know, these people that are doing a hell of 710 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 5: a job out there. And it wasn't until I was 711 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 5: released and I saw all the effort that DAYA and 712 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 5: the judge mess It put into getting me out. It's 713 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 5: like these people already they didn't know me for any date, 714 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 5: they didn't owe me anything, but they fought hard to 715 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 5: get me out. They fought hard to where I'm at. 716 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 5: And so that's you know, I guess check marks on 717 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 5: my side. You know, you do have people looking out 718 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 5: at you now. Everybody's there to hang in. 719 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. We are your 720 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: guest hosts Clayton English. 721 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 2: And I'm Greg Glott, and. 722 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: We'd like to give a shout out to executive producers 723 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: Jason Flamm and Kevin Wadis. 724 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: Plus everybody on the Wrongful Conviction production team Connor Hall, Anny, Chelsea, 725 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 2: Lyla Robinson and Jeff Cliber. 726 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: The music in the production comes from three time OSCAR 727 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: nominated composer shave Rout. 728 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 2: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 729 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 2: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 730 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 2: wrong Conviction, as well as Lava for Good on all 731 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: three platforms, so. 732 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: You can find us online too, I'm Clayton English on 733 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: Instagram and. 734 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 2: I'm on Twitter at greg Glott. 735 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: And For more about the state of drug criminalization in 736 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: your society, listen to the War on Drugs podcast wherever 737 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. 738 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 739 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: and association with Signal Company Number one