1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Cop and police stuff 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: is huge for little boys. What age am I going 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: to tell him? Like, cops aren't always you know, it's 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: his mind. It's like cops are the good guys and 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: the bad guys go to jail. Yeah. I think he 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: is at a great age to introduce that to him, right, 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: And you could talk about the role of police officers. 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: They are supposed to serve and protect and because of 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: the history of our country, because of things going on, 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: that's you know, unfair. Sometimes the police officer thinks somebody's 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a bad guy just because of the color of their skin. 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: We have to nuance it for our children so that 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: they don't always say cops for the good guy. You know, 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: somebody else is the bad guy. How Hello, everybody, Welcome 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. I'm so stoked about today's episode. 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: It is continuing our much needed work that we began 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: to get into in last seasons of Katie's Crib. I 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: have the one and only Dr Tracy Baxley here today 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: and we are talking about social justice, parenting and this 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: incredible book She wrote that everyone needs to run, not walk, 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: to go get if you are a white mama, if 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: you are a mama of color, if you are a 24 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: caretaker in any way. I mean, this book just lays 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: it out for us, like lays out how to have 26 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: conversations about race and how we can hopefully help our 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: kids generation to just do and be better than mine 28 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: and my parents before and their parents before them. Dr 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: Tracy Baxley is a professor, consultant, parenting coach, speaker, and 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: mother to five biracial children. Five children. She's also the 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: creator of Social Justice Parenting and author of Social Justice Parenting, 32 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: How to Raise compassionate, anti racist, justice minded Kids in 33 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: an Unjust World. Dr Baxley has been an educator for 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: over thirty years with degrees in child development, elementary Education, curriculum, 35 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: and instruction. She specializes in diversity and inclusion, antibias curriculum, 36 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: and social justice education. Thank you so much for coming 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: on Katie's Cribs. Dr Baxley, thank you for changing the world, 38 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: and thank you so much for taking the time to 39 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: speak with me and to our listeners. You all Katie's 40 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: Cribbers who listen know that I always have specialists guests 41 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: experts on my show to selfishly make me a better parent, 42 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: And here's one of those examples. So thank you for 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: coming on. Can you tell us Dr Baxley, why did 44 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: you write this book? What in your personal experience made 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: you write this book. I think it's been a culmination 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: of life experiences. But there was one in particular incidents 47 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: in my life as a mom where my son who 48 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: was having anxiety and really in a place of irrational thinking. 49 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: He had just been recently diagnosed with O c D, 50 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: and he left the house in that state, and all 51 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: of the things that I thought I had taught my 52 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: kids about saying safe about the world, about racism, about 53 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: their skin and all those things, it all came crushing 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: down on me like did I do enough? Is me 55 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: teaching him this enough to keep him safe? And at 56 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: that moment, I wasn't sure that me doing that was enough? 57 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: And it was kind of the turning point. I really 58 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: believe in this idea of a village and what do 59 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: I need to do to make sure there's a village 60 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: around my children, and how I can be a village 61 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: for other people's children. I have such goose bumps. There's 62 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: a part in your book where you talk about it's 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: not just my child, Your children are kept safer by 64 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: helping other children know about our world and other parents. 65 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: How do we speak about race to our children. All 66 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: of this effects our children personally, which is great, But 67 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: really what's great is it it helps the larger collective 68 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: of children. It just became such a community effort. Yeah, 69 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: because here I am like in this paralyzing fear on 70 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: the floor in my bedroom, and my kid is now 71 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: running around in my predominantly white neighborhood, and I am 72 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: freaking out about is he safe? Did I talk to 73 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: my enough of my neighbors? Do I know enough of 74 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: my neighbors and know this is my kid? All those 75 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: thoughts you know that you thought you've kind of protected 76 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: them from or that you have prepared them for, it 77 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: all came crashing down. Hm. We are misaligned if we 78 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: think that we are just raising our own kids. You know, 79 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: I believe in that idea of parenting as activism. You know, 80 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: the things that we do and set our homes, They're 81 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: going to show up in public spaces one we or another. 82 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: And so the question is how do we want our 83 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: kids to show up in the world and how we 84 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: want the world to show up for them. I love 85 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: this and how help us, help us? Help me? Okay? 86 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: What is radical love? Yeah? Radical love is this notion 87 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: that we are loving beyond the people that are in 88 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: our circles. Right. It's about this idea of really showing 89 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: up for people in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Right. 90 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: It's focusing on looking at perspectives, actively listening to other people. 91 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: It's about seeing the humanity and all of us and 92 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: let that be the starting space for how we build relationships. 93 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: And often we we have limits around our love, right, 94 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: or we have check boxes around our love. But radical 95 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: love is about me loving your kids the way I 96 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: love mine, right, Me showing up for them every day, 97 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: things that I do, the things that I teach my children. 98 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm doing that with the thought of how it's going 99 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: to impact your children. Yes, we are all responsible as 100 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: a collective. I'm hoping that through this work on Katie's 101 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: Crib and your book and others like us, our children 102 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: and our children's children will be in a better, more 103 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: radical love place. Part of the book really is talking 104 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: about how we help our kids to self advocate. It's 105 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: our job to model for them how to use big 106 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: emotions in ways that make sense in the social context. 107 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: In your book, you state this word rocks, reflection, open dialogue, compassion, kindness, 108 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: social justice engagement are qualities in what you're talking about 109 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: a pro justice home. Can you tell us a little 110 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: bit about rocks and where this came from. Yeah, I 111 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: don't know where it came from. Like, I don't want 112 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: it together, right, I'm like, these are all the things 113 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: that I want to do to make sure my kids 114 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: are doing for themselves. Right, We're doing in our family, 115 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: and we're going to do it in the community. It's 116 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: those three kind of lenses in which we need to practice. 117 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: How are we doing it for ourselves, How are we 118 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: doing it in our family and teaching our kids, and 119 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: then how our family is going out into the world 120 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: to teach it. So they're they're kind of like the 121 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: building blocks of social justice parenting. I think a lot 122 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: of people, first of all, they get freaked out by 123 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: the social justice. Right, we're trying to make the words 124 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: social justice something that it's not. It's not this thing 125 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: that we have to be on one side or another about. 126 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: It's not something that we should use to weaponize in 127 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: any way. It's just about basic human rights. We want 128 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: everybody to have the opportunity that they need to have 129 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: the best life. Right. That's what social justice about. Giving 130 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: people the basic needs that they need so they can 131 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: put themselves in the best position possible. Nothing should be 132 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: controversial about that, agreed. And yeah, so the rocks are 133 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: really the building blocks on which social justice parenting is built. 134 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: It's about this idea of reflecting on our own shit 135 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: really right, the things that we we are coming to 136 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: parenting with, being able to separate what's great about it 137 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: and what we need to get rid of it right 138 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: in our parenting. The O is for open dialogue and 139 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: this is like real conversations you have to have with yourself, 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: but being honest and where you are in your parenting, 141 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: where you are in your biases and your stereotypes are 142 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: all the things that you hold. And then how we 143 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: have these heart conversations with our children often messy, sometimes 144 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: we don't know how, but we have to have them. 145 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: It's the only way to get through it and to 146 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: change the way we all show up. And then the 147 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: C and the K are compassion and kindness, which go together. Right. 148 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: The compassion is the feeling the Kindness is the action. 149 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: How are we showing up for ourselves? Right? That's my 150 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: heart part. And self compassion is something that I'm working 151 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: on every single day. That's the hardest for me. Um, 152 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: So our kids need to see us doing it for ourselves. 153 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: We need to be showing up for our kids when 154 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: they make mistakes, you know, are they forgiven immediately? Do 155 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: we hold grudges with their kids? You know? We have 156 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: to think about how we are aligning what we do 157 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: with the values that we're trying to teach our kids. 158 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: And then the kindness are the little things that we're 159 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: building habits around where kindness becomes normalize in our homes. 160 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: And then the S is social engagement. So how do 161 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: we see these things going on in the world. Whatever 162 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: those things are for your family that are most important, 163 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: could be an environment, it could be homelessness, whatever that 164 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: thing is for me obviously, it's it's about racial justice 165 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: is part of it. And how do we teach our 166 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: kids to care outside of our home enough to want 167 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: to make change? Yeah, how do you get them to 168 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: be proactive? That's what we need. We need proactive behavior. 169 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: We were so lucky on Katie's cript to have Dr 170 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: Lee Beverly Tatum the show, and she said, we're all 171 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: just walking on this like one of those magic carpets 172 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: at an airport conveyor belt, and so we're all just 173 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: walking on this conveyor belt. And if even if you're 174 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: standing still, you're still moving in a racist world. And 175 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: unless you walk in the opposite direction of the conveyor belt, 176 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: that's being proactive, that's being anti racist. And you're like, 177 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: oh shit, Like okay, I got to teach my kids, 178 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: like that's right. How are you active in your community? 179 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: How do you actively seek change? And that doesn't have 180 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: to be necessary, it's how it is authentic to you, 181 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: but it needs to happen. You talked about this open dialogue. 182 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: What would be dialogue you would recommend children use in 183 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: these hard and unexpected situations. For example, you have an 184 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: experience at an eight week boot camp fitness class before 185 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: you had kids. Can you tell us some how full 186 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: ways a child could have responded? Yeah? Yeah. So the 187 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: moral of the story is the director's child said the 188 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: N word. And my girlfriend I were the only black 189 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: people in the boot camp that we had been in 190 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: for eight weeks, and we thought we were all like 191 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: family and at that moment, nobody stood up for us. Right, 192 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: we just felt like, what the heck? You know, we 193 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: had no allies at that moment and we were caught 194 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: off guard. But sometimes the ally ship doesn't have to 195 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: be anything big. Right if somebody had just touched me 196 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: on the shoulder to say that I felt that I 197 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: wasn't invisible, right, that that their presence was was there. 198 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: Kids can say I don't like the way that feels 199 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: for me, or I am standing with you. It's not 200 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: a big gesture in that moment. People need to feel 201 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: seen and they need to feel protected in a certain sense, 202 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: right that supported and um, sometimes it's just a touch, 203 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just moving near. So we could teach our 204 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: case to just stand next to the person who is 205 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: being marginalized in some way, and and and sometimes that 206 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: silence of just standing next to them is enough. I'm 207 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: a big proponent and role playing. I think we have 208 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: to say, what if this happens, What are some things 209 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: that we can do that align with our core values 210 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: of in our home that stand up for other people, 211 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: because that's something that's really important to us. What if 212 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: your friend says this about somebody else, let's name three 213 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: things that we can do if this ever happened, What 214 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: if that happens to you? What can you say back 215 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: this way? When the kids are in those situations, they 216 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: don't have to think or be caught off guard because 217 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,119 Speaker 1: in the back of their minds, in their back pockets, 218 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: they've practiced it. So it will automatically. It become automatic 219 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: after a while because they will already have these things ready, 220 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: rehearsed and ready to use. I mean, they'll be looking 221 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: for situations to use it right because they practice them 222 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: so much. Also, it's important that your kids see you 223 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: doing the same thing. So when you see things that 224 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: aren't right, you should be having those conversations with your 225 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: children about it, even when you don't stand up and 226 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: you can say, you know what, I want to talk 227 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: about what happened yesterday. Remember when we heard that ladies 228 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: um say something negative about the other man in line. 229 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: I really wanted to say something, but I was I 230 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: was afraid that is not the way I want to 231 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: show up the next time. So the next time that happens, 232 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: here are some things that I think I'm gonna do differently, 233 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: So they know that sometimes fear will get in the way. 234 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: But we were coming up with ideas to do when 235 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: when fear takes over and we really want to show 236 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: up in a different person. HM. As as far as 237 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: a parent is concerned of how to address being an ally, UM, 238 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: I think it's even harder for us as parents because 239 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: we have lived a life where we haven't done it. 240 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: Where kids are younger and it may be easier for 241 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: them to pick up. And what I find often is 242 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: that as a parent who's learning to walk and do 243 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: the work, UM, you may not get it right the 244 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: first time right. But I think it's really important to 245 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: know if, for instance, in that moment at the boot camp, 246 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: when no other parents, no other adults stood up for me, 247 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: it would have been okay for them to circle back around, 248 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, the next day after thinking about it, or 249 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: the next week and say, you know what, I didn't 250 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: show up the way. I felt so bad. I felt 251 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: paralyzed in the moment, and I didn't know what to do. 252 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: Because when you say that you're paralyzed the moment, but 253 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: you're still thinking about it and it bothered you. That 254 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: is letting me know that you're open to learning and 255 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: growing right, and then we can have conversations about what 256 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: what I needed in that moment and really what I 257 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: need in that moment. It's the same thing I would 258 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: tell my kid to do right, stand stand next to 259 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: stand with UM, say that that bothers me. I don't 260 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: feel good using that word or hearing that word that way, 261 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: or looking at me and saying I'm so sorry that happened. 262 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: You don't have to have the answers of what to 263 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: do next, but you can just say I'm sorry that 264 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: that happened to you. But I think circling back to 265 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: have the conversation is really important. That's so good. Yeah, 266 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: like not the worst is just pretending this ship isn't 267 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: happening or doesn't happen. That's just like yeah, and we 268 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: don't like you know, we don't always make the right 269 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: choices in the moment. But you have to be you 270 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: have to be big about that enough to say, shit, 271 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: I screwed up, I should have I could have. I'm 272 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: trying to teach my kids to do that. UM, let 273 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: me at least go back and and say something to 274 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: the person. And sometimes too, you have to go back 275 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: to the person who said it and say listen, and 276 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: maybe you want to do it one on one. I 277 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: don't know when you said that to to Tracy, it 278 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: was jacked up. I didn't say anything then, but now 279 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: that I'm reviewing all the stuff that we said, so 280 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: we have to confront the people who said the jacked 281 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: up thing, because maybe they don't realize that it was inappropriate. 282 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: I try to look at life through this lands of 283 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: um assuming good intent, right, like he didn't mean to 284 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: offend me, she didn't mean to offend me, but they did. 285 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: So let me explain to them why it was offensive, 286 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: and hopes that now they know better, they'll do better 287 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: next time. I think we make things more complicated than 288 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: they are. Yes, racism, systemic racism is complicated. But if 289 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: we can teach our kids these little things in their 290 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: lives that starts to make small shifts over time, it 291 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: doesn't seem as big and daunting. Growing up in a 292 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: household where we you know, we had this nineties household 293 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: where we had friends that were all different colors, and 294 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: my parents wouldn't ever have talked about it, and if 295 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: you did, it was like that's not allowed, Like you 296 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: don't say the black friend, you know, you just we 297 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: were like overly washing away any sort of systemic racism 298 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: like that as long as we all love each other 299 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: and they're nice to each other, then we're not racist. Right, 300 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: That's where That's where I'm coming from. Now, that's a 301 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: huge step forward from where their parents were coming from, 302 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: which their parents were coming from, terrible language around people 303 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: of color. You know, we're not friends with people of color, 304 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: those sorts of things. And now where I'm coming from 305 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: is this open dialogue naming race. And it's really been 306 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: such a blessing to have this podcast and to learn. 307 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: For example, I was at a cafe with my son. 308 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: Outside there was a black man and an Asian man 309 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: at a table, and my son was like, look, he 310 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: has black skin. Now I before two years ago, I 311 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: would have been I don't know what to do. I'm horrified. 312 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: Is that bad? Is that good? Why am I freaking out? 313 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm freaking out. And thank God 314 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: for the work we're doing. Like you're talking about small changes. 315 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: I say, yeah, he does have black skin. He also 316 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: has this color hair, and she this woman over here 317 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: has yellow hair and you have pink skin, and looked 318 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: at like I started pointing out the people in the 319 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: restaurant and how they everyone had different things going on 320 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: about their appearance and that they were very beautiful and 321 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: things were different. I feel so fortunate to know that 322 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 1: I that that is the right move. Yeah, that's part 323 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: of the reflection piece, like why am I so afraid 324 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: of this? Where is this coming from? You know? And um, 325 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: how do I now start to unravel this? And I 326 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: think you did great in the pandemic times especially. I 327 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of the younger kids have not 328 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: had a lot of experiences, truthfully, like being out and 329 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: about because we were isolated. And a few weeks ago, 330 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: I am on a new television show on CBS called 331 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: How We Roll and because we're all the show has 332 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: sort of potted up together because we tested every single day. 333 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: After wrap. One day, I said, everyone come over to 334 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: my yard and let's have like a pizza party. And 335 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: I let my son stay up late because he was like, 336 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: holy sh it, they're going to be people over. No 337 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: one ever comes over anymore. So they're in the yard 338 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: and the first person that walks in is this lovely 339 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: actor named Taj Maori. His sister, Tia Maori, was actually 340 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: on the podcast. He's bi racial, black and white, and 341 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: he has very tight, curly black hair and he walked 342 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: in and the first thing my son says is, look, mom, 343 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: he has the same kind of hair as the basketball 344 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: players on television. Okay, so my husband is obsessed with basketball. 345 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: Basketball is on in my house all fucking day, all night. 346 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: So he said that, and I allowedly to Taj, and 347 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even know what to do 348 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: with this, And I said, I don't know whether i'm 349 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: I don't know whether I should apologize that I don't 350 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: have a lot of black people in my house. In 351 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: the last two years, I haven't had anyone really in 352 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: my house. And oh, he sees black people on television 353 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: playing basketball, and that's why he's saying that. Taj was amazing. 354 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: He thought it was sucking larrs. He didn't care, but 355 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: I was trying to like, yes, he has different kind 356 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: of hair, and some people a sand television also have 357 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: that same kind of hair. Then Val walks in, who's 358 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: my co star Pete Holmes wife? And she's incredibly short, 359 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: like very very short. She I'm not she knows. My 360 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: son was like, can I play with her? She's a 361 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: three year old? And I said, she's not a three 362 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: year old, he said, but she's so so, so small, 363 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: she's not a grown up, and it became this whole thing. 364 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: So talk to me about how I should have handled 365 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: that situation better and what I should have said. And 366 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: I think to the pandemic has made everything kind of 367 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: out of sorts, right, We're all trying to figure some 368 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: things out in the pandemic that we didn't have to 369 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: figure out before. I don't think that there's anything wrong 370 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: with what he said, Like, I think it's our baggage. 371 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: What he's seeing is totally okay. And I don't think 372 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: any adult should have been offended by that, but they 373 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: weren't be offended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if 374 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: we just let go of the fact that it's not 375 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: coming from us, but it's coming from a kid who 376 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: is curious and who is trying to figure the world out. 377 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I like to say stuff like that is 378 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: such a curious question, right. I love that you are 379 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: using the things that you know to try to make 380 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: sense of something new. I mean, that is very smart 381 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: of you. And it also, you know, just from a 382 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: real a real perspective, it buys you a couple more 383 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: minutes to try to figure out what the hell I'm 384 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: gonna say, right, Like you know. Wow, that is a 385 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: great question, and um, you know your curiosity amazes me, 386 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: and um, I really like that question for a lot 387 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: of reasons. But let me tell you what I think 388 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: you know and then go on to say what you think. 389 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: And then the thing the great thing about that is 390 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: you may get it wrong, but you're kids will always 391 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: be open to you. Come back and say, hey, listen, 392 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: last week when you asked me about miss val thinking 393 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: she was a kid. Um, I don't know if I 394 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: gave you the right answer. Tell me what you heard 395 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: me say, right, So then you get to fill out 396 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: what they're thinking and what they got and where the 397 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: gaps are. If you ask me that again today, this 398 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: is what I would say because I had a chance 399 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: to think about it, and um, really internalize your curious question. 400 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: We get to see how much how much of what 401 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: we've taught them landed, or where the gaps still are, 402 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: and what we need to fill in along the way. Developmentally, 403 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: at that age, kids are categorizing that's like normal developmentally 404 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: appropriate behavior. And then we're shutting down them categorizing and 405 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: them noticing same indifferences. Then we're it's really confusing to 406 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: them because they are doing what they are developmentally are 407 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing. And we put all of our 408 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: adult issues on our kids being naturally curious, and then 409 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: we don't want to squash it curiosity, you know, because 410 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: if they say something about race and you shut them down, 411 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: we are not perpetuating this idea that race is a 412 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: taboo topic to talk about. Exactly, you name a number 413 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: of conversation starters that families can use. This is so helpful. 414 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: This is what I love about your book. These are 415 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: all big, overwhelming, scary things that again, like if you're 416 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: in my situation, you were raised, like we don't talk 417 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: about this. But what's so great about your book is 418 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: that you give us actual life things to do. Who 419 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: I'm such an overachiever, I'm like, yes, Like this is it? 420 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: So you name a number of conversation starters that families 421 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: can use. It in chapter three People, where parents parents 422 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: having social justice conversations with our friends with their kids, 423 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: can you walk us through your favorite Yes, and let 424 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: me say this too. It doesn't have to be like 425 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: very formal setting, right, no, right, It should be like 426 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: whatever we do it in the car. A lot of 427 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: times we do the putting different hard topics and easy 428 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: topics in a jar during dinner we pull them out. WHOA, 429 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: that's so good. Yeah. So there's light questions sometimes that 430 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: we can laugh about, and then some of them are 431 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: heavier that we need to unpack too, finding ways that 432 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: makes sense for your family. It's something that you should 433 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: think about, and it doesn't have to be this hardle 434 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: It's now it's time to talk kind of conversations. Right. 435 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: We keep hearing this on Katie's ccript all the time 436 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: that it's not one one hundred minute conversation, it's one 437 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: one minute conversations. Okay, so tell us walk us through 438 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: three of your favorites. I'm trying to think what I 439 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: wrote in there. I think, um, I like the questions 440 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: that are very open ended, and I also like things 441 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: that are relevant to what's going on in the world. 442 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: So I will, especially with my older kids, I will 443 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: ask them what are you reading on Twitter these days? 444 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: Because my big kids they get their news from Twitter, 445 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: of course. So then that opens up the conversation to 446 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: like real news, fake news, what's real happening? And how 447 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: do we drill a little bit deeper in this, you know? 448 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: And where do we go with that? So open ending 449 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: questions are really great because you get to see what 450 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: your kids already know, um, where the gaps are, what's missing, 451 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: and where you need to drill, where you need to redirect. 452 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: As my kids get older, they want to come up 453 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: with the conversation starters too, which is really cool too. 454 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: That's so cool. So you know, like my kids will 455 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: come up with things like I know my fourth kid 456 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: is at that stage where he thinks he can have 457 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: a girlfriend, and I always say, there's no girlfriends to 458 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: high school, right, So a lot of his questions that 459 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: he asked are around like what is the appropriate age 460 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: to start liking awesome a partner? Like? Where where? Where? 461 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: Does where? Does it state that the sixteen is the 462 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: magic age to like things? Around the things that he's thinking. 463 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: So again, you get to know what your kids are 464 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: thinking because if they come up with their own questions, 465 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: it's something that is on their minds. Yeah, and I 466 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: like this. Uh. Some examples that go back to what 467 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: I was saying with Albe at the at the cafe 468 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: that we were at naming race. You know, look at 469 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: your skin in your hair. That's an example, like I 470 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: could say to Albie, look at your skin in your hair? 471 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: What color is your skin? What color is your hair? 472 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: And your friend Caleb has black skin, and he has black, dark, 473 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 1: dark black hair, and it's longer than yours. And I 474 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: love how beautiful and different they are. How are they 475 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: different to you? When we get it spelled out like that, 476 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: it's just you're like, okay, I can do this, Like 477 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: I can do this, rather than thinking like, oh shoo am, 478 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: I just supposed to sit like before bedtime with the 479 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: four year old, be like, let's talk about race. Children's 480 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: literature is a really great way to to start asking 481 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: these questions, you know, from the point of view of 482 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: somebody else. Huge, you know, cop and police stuff is 483 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: huge for little boys. I don't know. It's in the television. 484 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: It's in the shows we watch. It's in paw Patrol. 485 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: Someone's dressed like a cop. Because I know about the police, 486 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 1: I'm very like, what the fuck like this is like? 487 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: And he's a boy and he's into it. One of 488 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: the examples you give, which I haven't brought up to 489 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: him yet, is equity, and you can say things like 490 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: we are white, we don't really have to worry that 491 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: a police officer might hurt us. In black communities, many 492 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: people are afraid of the police officers because of the 493 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: history of being unfairly treated. What age am I going 494 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: to tell him, like, cops aren't always you know, it's 495 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: his mind. It's like cops are the good guys and 496 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: the bad guys go to jail. My feelings towards police 497 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: are very complicated. Yeah, I think he is at a 498 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: great age to introduce that to him. Right. So he's 499 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: dressed like a copy, has his copy uniform on, and 500 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: you could talk about the role of police officers. They 501 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: are supposed to serve and protect. If you're a police officer, 502 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: how can you serve and protect people? What could you do? Right? 503 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: They list a lot of things. We can get the 504 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: bad guy, but you know, sometimes the cops don't always 505 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: choose the right bad guy. And because of the history 506 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: of our country, because of things going on, that's you know, unfair. 507 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes the police officer thinks somebody's a bad guy just 508 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: because of the color of their skin. Right, So I 509 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: think him being in that uniform, I don't think there's 510 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: anything bad with that. I think that we have to 511 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: nuance it for our children so that they don't always 512 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: say cops to the good guy. You know, somebody else 513 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: is the bad guy. But it's kind of an entry point. 514 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: It is. It's a great entry point. It is a 515 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: great Sometimes you know, the cop isn't always the good guy, 516 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes they are wrong. Sometimes they are wrong, and 517 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: they unfairly treat someone who might be a criminal but 518 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: is actually not a criminal. You know, whatever it is, 519 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: but just starting these critical thinking in his head exactly, 520 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: like it's so crazy. Let's he serving who was he protecting. 521 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: Let's have those conversations. Children as change agents, listen, Let's 522 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: look at history. History is telling us everything we need 523 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: to know. When you look at the Civil rights movement, right, 524 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: it was the children who got everything started right because 525 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: the parents were afraid of losing their jobs. They couldn't 526 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: miss work, they were a little bit afraid. It was 527 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: when Dr King sat in that church and all the 528 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: young people, the sit ins, all of those things, that 529 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: is when the change started happening. They see things as 530 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: things should be just and they have the end g 531 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: That's the other thing. I think a lot of moms 532 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: and dads and older they're tired, they're coming at you know, 533 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: it's hard and to have the energy, which we all should. 534 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: But like kids have the energy to make change be 535 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: a huge priority in their life, especially if their parents, 536 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: like you say, are like modeling that behavior and they 537 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: don't have that baggage called fear. That's it. Yeah, yeah, 538 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: we are thinking about all the things that can go 539 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: wrong and all the things that could be and protecting 540 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: and and the kids are like, no, this is not right. 541 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: We need to make it right. It is never too 542 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: early to have challenging conversations about race and racism. Yeah, never. 543 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: And your book is so helpful with this, but you 544 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: can talk about social justice issues with children. The script 545 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: goes from preschool to elementary to preteen and teen years. 546 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: Like we just gave the example for like a cop 547 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: for a four year old versus that conversation for a 548 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: white kid who's a teenager, I'm sure is very different. Right, 549 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: Getting pulled over for you is a different scenario than 550 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: getting pulled over. If your friend who is black word 551 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 1: to get pulled over by a police, his parents are 552 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: having very different conversations with him, then we are with 553 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: you and you need to know that. Just really, Katie, 554 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: A really great point is that white families have to 555 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: be having those conversations too, Like your kid needs to 556 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,719 Speaker 1: know that the conversation of my house is different and 557 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: why that is and why we still need to have 558 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: those conversations. And I think that that gives me hope, 559 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: Like I talked about that idea of active hope in 560 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: the book, because there are days that I feel like 561 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to get out of bed, like things 562 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: are so heavy and things are so like we're going 563 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: backwards in so many ways. But is that active hope 564 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: that one person that's following me asked me a question 565 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: that I helped them get through that situation. One white 566 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: mom is thinking about my son when she hasn't. She's 567 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: having a conversation with her son. These small little ripples 568 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: are the things that really kind of keep me moving forward. 569 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: When people say something like I don't see color, I 570 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: don't think we can learn this enough. It really needs 571 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: to learn. Why is I don't see color offensive? Because 572 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 1: it's a lie. First of all, it's a lie, right, 573 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: and your kids know it's a lie. They're like, well, mam, 574 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: I dou see color. I I can see it. And 575 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: what it does, really it it negates everything about systemic 576 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: racism um that we know right, what you're saying to 577 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: me is my experiences my lived experiences, the injustices that 578 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: I feel as a black woman is erased, right, Like, 579 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because I don't see any of that. 580 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 1: So by not seeing color, you're really saying that you 581 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: don't see anything about me, any of my struggles that 582 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: we can really need to work on as a society 583 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: when you have just made me and my color invisible. 584 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: So you're really denying that person their lived experiences when 585 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,239 Speaker 1: you're saying I don't see color. We can't work on 586 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: something that we don't acknowledge that we see. Oh my god, 587 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: come on, guys, yeah, no we can. We are so 588 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: screwed if we do that. Young children's natural inclination is 589 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: to take action. This is I'm quoting you. They want 590 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: to know what they can do to help. So I 591 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: have a list of ideas that your family can do together. 592 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: Can you give us some examples of how we can 593 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: be practicing outside our home with our families social justice actions? Yes, 594 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: And like I said, you know, your social justice is 595 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: going to be different from my social justice. Right. When 596 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: I work with families, the first thing I do is like, 597 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: do you have core values? Right? What are the core 598 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: values are your family? Are they written down? Have you 599 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: discussed them with your kids, to say, this is our 600 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: GPS here, right, These three or four core values are 601 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: the things that whenever we get off, whenever we don't 602 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: know what we're doing, whatever we make mistakes, we come 603 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: back to these core values for them to say, did 604 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: you answer that from this perspective, then the thing that 605 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: you do, how you showed up doesn't match with what 606 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: we say. It's important to us as a legacy that 607 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna leave. So that's a real proactive thing to 608 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: do in your home, sitting down with your kids, creating 609 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: core values, writing them on the refrigerator, putting them up 610 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: on posting notes. What would some examples of core values be? Okay, 611 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: So for my family, one of our core values is 612 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: you are your brother or your sister's keeper. Like whatever 613 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: goes down with your friends, whatever goes down in the world, 614 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: whatever goes down with your parents. You got your brother's back, 615 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: so you are your brother's keepers. Is one. Another one 616 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: in my house is we have little phrases to help 617 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: them remember. But the other one is on your own jump. 618 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: So you can't come and tell me what your teacher 619 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: said to you or what your coach said to you. 620 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: Until you tell me from their perspective first. So first 621 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: you have to say this is what I did, you know, 622 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: and then okay, now let's back up and say whether 623 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: what they did was appropriate or not. So it's taking 624 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: responsibility essentially, absolutely absolutely, Yeah, so on your own jump. 625 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: So those are the things that you either come up with. 626 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: I mean, your kid is for so he could really 627 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: start being a part of that. What are these corps? 628 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: What it is important to our family? Yeah, and those 629 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: need to be written down, signed off on the refrigerator, 630 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: on canvas so they will always know that, you know 631 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: what we I was screaming at you today and that's 632 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: not part of our core values. I need a minute, right, 633 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: I need some space and grades, and then let me 634 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: figure out how it can come back. You know, that 635 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: wasn't in alignment with our career values. I'm gonna apologize 636 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: to you. I was hungry, I was angry, I had 637 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: a deadline, and you were basically the victim. And I'm 638 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: apologizing for that. I'm very sorry. But now I want 639 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: to come back in in in a way that is 640 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: aligned with our core values. So coming up with core values, 641 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: I think it is the first thing that way, you know, 642 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: what's important to you, so that when you are out 643 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: in the world, whether it's through activism, through environmental issues, 644 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, social justice issues, donating toys, donating books, taking 645 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: care of kids who are hungry, someone who's doing less, 646 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: those are all great ways to start the thing that's 647 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: a low kind of low hanging fruit that's easy that 648 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: you guys, that lights your family up, is a great 649 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: way to start that. And then when they are comfortable 650 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: doing that, that's when you get to more the heavier things. 651 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: What can young children do if they want to participate 652 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 1: in movements such as Black Lives Matter movement and other 653 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: than marching and toddlers are too young to engage, I 654 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: think in the internet activism, social media aspect of it. 655 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: But what other ways can they get involved? I think 656 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: you creating diversity in your household, you normalizing black excellence, 657 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: and the choices that you make your doctors, right, your pediatrician, 658 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 1: your dentists, your are are any of these people people 659 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: of color? Or do they all look like you? Right? 660 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: So we want those faces to look like the society 661 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: at large. Right. So I think when they're too young 662 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: to actually do things, the way you establish your household 663 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: around diversity is really important because the messages that that 664 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 1: you're sending to them is that we're different, but we're equal. 665 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: It's your responsibility to expose them to diversity and differences 666 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 1: and normalize that in their vives. As we're wrapping up, 667 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: we always ask, parenthood is messy. That's a great one. 668 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: It's joyous and messy. Yes, that is so so great. Yeah, 669 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna get it wrong a lot, but we're going 670 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 1: to admit it, and then we're going to take our 671 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: time and figure out how we would have better liked 672 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: to have come to the answer, and then come back 673 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: and have like a nice not so precious conversation where 674 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: we're open and vulnerable and reflective that we can then 675 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: take out into our communities to make some active change. 676 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: This has been so wonderful, so informative, and we appreciate 677 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: you and all the work that you are doing. Dr Baxley, 678 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on Katie's Crib. Thank 679 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: you Katie, thanks for having me. This is fun. Oh, 680 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm so glad. We are so lucky to have you. 681 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. 682 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: I hope you got out of it as much as 683 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: I did, and I want to hear from you topics, guests, 684 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: things you want to talk about. I am here. You 685 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: can always find me at Katie's Crib at shondaland dot com. 686 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: Katie's Crib is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership 687 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, 688 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 689 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite ships.