1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. In many states, it's 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: this sort of same state that is doing things like 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: not wanting to take the child care money, not having 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: a paid leave conversation, that same state is rolling back 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: reproductive healthcare. There's an opportunity to join together and fight 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: for a different future. And the strategy of sort of 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: making people feel powerless is how nothing gets done. We 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: are super powerful, That's so right. Yes, I do feel 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: fired up. I'm pissed and powerful and powerful. Please note 11 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: that at the time of our recording back in February, 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about the President's Build Back 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: Better Bill. The framework of this bill included things like 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: child care, universal preschool, and paid family leave. A number 15 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: of things have changed since then, and the bill is 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: currently stalled. We're keeping an ear to the ground for 17 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: what's next for legislation at this time. Hi everybody, and 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: welcome back to Katie's Crib. Today. I have so many questions, 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: and I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed. There's so much change 20 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: and advocacy going around, and I know we all have fatigue, 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: but I was like we gotta get Fatima goss Graves 22 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: on here to lay it out in Layman's terms of 23 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: how our listeners and myself can better advocate for women, 24 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: pregnant women, and families in the workforce. Fatima gos Graves 25 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: is a nationally recognized leader in the fight for gender 26 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: justice and an expert in law, policy and culture change. 27 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,279 Speaker 1: She is President and CEO of the National Women's Law Center, 28 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: president of the National Women's Law Center Action Fund, and 29 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: a co founder of the Times Up Legal Defense Fund. 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: Fatima has a distinguished track record working across a broad 31 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 1: set of issues central to the lives of women and girls, 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: and health and reproductive rights and workplace justice. She's appeared 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: as a legal and social commentator on CBS, MSNBC, BBC, CNN, BBS, 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: and NBR, and has been published and quoted in numerous outlets. 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: A teamer resides in my favorite city in the country, Washington, 36 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: d C. Fatima, thank you so much for coming on 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: Katie's cribt. You have worked hard and you are working 38 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: hard to be where you are. Tell me how how 39 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: did you get into public policy? So I should begin 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: that I think one of the reasons I was able 41 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: to stay at the National Women's Low Center for a 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: long time, and I've been here for over a decade 43 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: and a bunch of different roles. Is because the Law 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: Center values caregivers and always has so I was able 45 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: to have two babies and do work I felt passionate 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: and about, and take time for leave and tap in 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: and out in various ways. In the truth of the 48 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: matter is, you can't do that everywhere in this country. 49 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: And so that made a difference for me in my 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: career that the Law Center invested in me early and 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: I was able to to stay connected to work right. 52 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: But you know, I sort of came up at a 53 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: time with a really deep understanding of gender and racial justice. 54 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: And I feel really really lucky to be able to 55 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: do this work any time, but especially in times of crisis. 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: And so when I think about the pandemic. In the 57 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: early days, we gathered as a staff and talked about 58 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: what we knew people were facing and what we expected 59 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: to come and many folks on staff were experiencing those 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: same things, and so the issues are personal for us, 61 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: and it's why we're invested, and it's why we stay 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: in the work. It's why I stay in the work 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: at a picture of what the pandemic has done for 64 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: women in the workforce and a picture of where we 65 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: are currently at. You know, the pandemic revealed so many 66 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: problems that didn't just begin with the pandemic, but it 67 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: really show a bright light on it. It highlighted the fact, 68 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: especially for women of color, that they were disproportionately in 69 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: jobs that we call frontline and essential. But these are 70 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: also jobs that were basically low age and low paying jobs, 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: and that mattered a lot in the pandemic when a 72 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: lot of people lost those jobs and when women didn't 73 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of savings or safety net to fall 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: back on. The pandemic also highlighted the invisible work of 75 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: care that mostly women do, both care in their homes, 76 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: caring for your loved ones, your children, your elders, but 77 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: also that women and mostly women of color, disproportionately care 78 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: workers and are sisters. Um just broke. And the pandemic 79 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: of course highlighted how fragile our health infrastructure is and was, 80 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: And what it meant is that I especially for women 81 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: of color, they were disproportionately ill and the workers, the 82 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: frontline healthcare workers were also a lot of women. So 83 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: you had this crashing down of care and health and 84 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: income security and frontline jobs all at once. And I 85 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: think it's what made up the sort of you know, 86 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: with the New York Times called the Primal Scream, and 87 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: what your neighbors and friends may have just been showing 88 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: in their eyes and ears, that look you see on 89 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: people's faces, that look of I'm exhausted, I'm tired. I 90 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: can't believe this is happening. These things didn't begin with 91 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: the pandemic. They just came crashing down altogether at once. 92 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: I have goose bumps. I know so many women and 93 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: women of all different socio economic classes colors who have 94 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: literally been on the brink of losing it multiple times. 95 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: They are not able to work, take care of their children, 96 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: homeschool disruptions with COVID. I mean, it has been absolutely wild. 97 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: So can you tell us about the specific policy and 98 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 1: advocacy work that you've participated in regard to paid leave. So, 99 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: even before the pandemic, we were supporting what was called 100 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: the Family Act, which would have been the first national 101 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: paid leave program. It's sort of surprises a lot of 102 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: people that that's not already the policy in this country. 103 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: Until you need paid leave and can't access it. What 104 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: happened during the pandemic is we actually ended up having 105 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: an experiment. He had the first national paid leave program 106 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: as a part of the COVID relief package. You would 107 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: have thought that that would have told us we should 108 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: never go backwards again, that we should never not have 109 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: a situation like this. Unfortunately, we didn't all equally learn 110 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: this lesson, and we have been fighting for paid leave 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: together with an investment in our care infrastructure more broadly 112 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: in Congress over this last two years, and it feels 113 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: on some days that we were very far away and 114 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: some days that we're on the cusp of actually getting 115 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: something that would be transformative, not just for today but 116 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: for tomorrow. In regard to that tell us about the 117 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: Build Back Better Act in Layman's terms. We've talked about 118 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: it on this podcast before, but for anyone who's just 119 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: tuning in, can you explain it? So I'm going to 120 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: begin by saying that I am an internal oftenness, So 121 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: you may read in the paper certain things that I'm 122 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: gonna say exactly why I haven't given up on on 123 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: build that Better, but but on specifically the sort of 124 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: investment in the care economy that we need. And it 125 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: includes in historic investment in childcare so that workers can 126 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: actually make more and families can pay less with would 127 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: it also increase the supply of childcare. Unfortunately in the pandemic, 128 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: we lost a lot of child care workers and they 129 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: have some of them gotten jobs doing other things that 130 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: pay more, So we have a math problem. Similarly, the 131 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: bill would have a historic investment in home care services 132 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: for those who are elderly and with disabilities, a population 133 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: that is growing because of the pandemic. And you know, 134 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: it's one of these things where we can't just ignore 135 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: a growing population that needs home care. But we kind 136 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: of have been delaying and delaying addressing this. And it 137 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: also included an investment in in paid lead in allowing 138 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: for a federal paid lead program. It does other things 139 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: that has investments in housing, has um investingments in climate 140 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: and a number of organizations around the country have been 141 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: fighting for this, have been fighting for us to actually 142 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: do the work of not just recover in terms of 143 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: our economy, but invest in the future and and and 144 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: put care at the center of it. Like that how 145 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: transformative to to do that? UM, And so where are 146 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: we on February pretty pretty too. And in any day, 147 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's always some sort of political have take 148 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: that's trying to guess where we are. And the truth 149 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: is people still want this investment. If you ask and 150 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: pull on the issue, people say, yes, I need you 151 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: to invest in child care now actually and maybe yesterday, 152 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: Yes I need you to to actually do something to 153 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: make sure home care workers get a worrage. There. They 154 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: are talking about this in a very serious way, and 155 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: negotiations are still happening. I'm not sure in the end 156 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: what will look like. I mean, some of this is 157 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: the business of doing business on in in DC, on 158 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. And you know, I don't think people need 159 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: to be invested in the sausage making. They need to 160 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: be invested in actually getting something done. I think most 161 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: people in this country kind of don't care what the 162 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: bill is called. They don't care if one member of 163 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: Congress is mad or another, or you know, how they 164 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: get it done. They just want them to get it done. 165 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: And I think consistently hearing that message from people will matter. 166 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: You posted a statement on the National Women's los Center 167 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: page which everyone listening. If you have not done deep 168 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: dives down this page and and just really looked into 169 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: the National Women's Law Center website. It's so valuable. I 170 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: read that the Build Back Better Act is also our 171 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: last best hope to prevent the collapse of our child 172 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: care system and sure millions more women are not pushed 173 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: out of the labor force, prevent increased health inequity, and 174 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: stop the descent of millions of children into poverty with 175 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: the pending lapse of the child tax credit. Why is 176 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: America so far behind? Why? Well, so we tend to 177 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: focus on the thing, right, and I'm so dramatic, right, 178 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: but I actually think we should be like, how did 179 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: we get here? What we're rethinking? So, Built Back Better, 180 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: I think is the bill we always should have had. Right, 181 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: This sort of investment in childcare is the investment we 182 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: always should have had because of the child tax Credit. 183 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Even during a pandemic and a reception we may which 184 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: did not have people falling more into deep poverty. And 185 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: that was an on purpose policy solution. We made a 186 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: choice that we were going to have fewer people going 187 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: into deep heart poverty in a recession. Well done, well done, 188 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: good job, good job. What can we learn from that 189 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: that it makes a difference in a recession for people 190 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: to have income. I sort of feel like those are 191 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: basic lessons, but there's always the worry that we won't 192 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: hold on to them. And the lesson I worried people 193 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: will forget is what has happened in these last two 194 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: years with women leaving the workforce. There are a lot 195 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: of anecdotal stories that people know, so they're surprised and 196 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: not surprised to know that over two million women left 197 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: during the pandemic. And there were periods where there were 198 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: spikes that surprised no mother anywhere, right back to school 199 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: spike every year, a macron when you saw people getting 200 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: sick and meaning to take un hate leave. That didn't 201 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: really surprise anyone who was looking around and thinking about 202 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: what that looks like in practice. And so I actually 203 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: think the opportunity to deliver not just for the folks 204 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: who suffered so much in this period, but to learn 205 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: the lesson and invests differently for the future who decided 206 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: on the three months. I have very few friends who 207 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: work at amazing companies that provide I'm not kidding you, 208 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: one year paid maternity leave MHM. When they tell people 209 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: in the room that they're getting that people are shocked 210 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: and um so jealous and it's such a blessing. I 211 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: see why it works. I mean caretakers, they get time 212 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: with the baby. If they have they're having trouble adjusting 213 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: anything like that, they are okay, and when they come 214 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: back it's unreal. I mean they're like in such a 215 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: good place. There are other countries that this is normal. 216 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: Why is it not here? So we actually just marked 217 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: I think that twenty nine anniversary of the Family Medical 218 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: Leave Act, which was historic at the time, to provide 219 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: job protection. You know, that's what that bill was. It 220 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: wasn't saying you were getting paid. It just meant you 221 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: didn't lose your job for taking twelve weeks of paid 222 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: lead of unpaid lead in most cases. Yeah, just saying 223 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to go have a baby, Can I please 224 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: have my job when I come back. Well, that was 225 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: controversial at the time, and unfortunately not everyone has that 226 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: job protection now, especially for people who are making low 227 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: wages and for workers who are part time. And so 228 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: I totally agree with you that right now, our system 229 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: is not set up to support young parents. It's also 230 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: not set up to have people have what they need 231 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: either to recover for themselves. Or to ensure that their 232 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: borns are cared for. It's really hard to get early 233 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: newborn care. Yet most people who have paid leave, that 234 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: paid leave ends well before you can actually have access 235 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: to care. So if you have four weeks of paid leave, 236 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: which is considered a lot in in many places, it's 237 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: hard to find care for a four week old. Most 238 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: centers don't take a four or six weeks old. Those 239 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: are tiny, tiny babies. So we are not set up. 240 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: And what ends up happening is this invisible care that 241 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: nobody talks about. We don't name the invisible cost that 242 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: is mostly born by women in this country. It's just 243 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: sort of not talked about, not name until now. I 244 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: do think the pandemic people are starting to name the 245 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: cost of care, that there is a cost that we're 246 00:15:52,560 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: just not yet. Begs what can listeners and myself do? Dadly, 247 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: we're also spending our time and energy fighting reproductive rights 248 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: and things that are feeling like they're going backwards, and 249 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: that why are we doing this again? Some days I 250 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: just I don't even know where to put my energy 251 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: because it's all a mess. Wow, I'm really a downer today. 252 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: Good thing up with you, Fatima, because you are an optimist, 253 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: who am I usually? So? Well, I'm going to give 254 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: you something that maybe we'll feel slightly optimist. All right. 255 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: So this sort of idea that people who are experiencing 256 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: the hardest of all of it are the ones that 257 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: actually have to engage the most is hard because people 258 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: are like, no, I'm tired, I don't what what are 259 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: you talking about? And it is precisely the time to 260 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: put your energy into something else. It's precisely the time 261 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: to join together with others who are also experiencing that 262 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: same thing. That is how your voice is heard. And 263 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: so we have a chance to do that yes on 264 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: the issues of care, to keep them front and center, 265 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: to let people know that we actually we care about it. 266 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: It's precisely the time to do it with a hat on, 267 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: to remind people that you know, we vote, and that 268 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: these are the things that I would think about when 269 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: I go to vote. People need to hear that. And 270 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: I would argue that these issues aren't disconnected from the 271 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: assault on reproductive healthcare and on abortion in particular, They 272 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: actually are deeply connected. In many states, it's this sort 273 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: of same state that is doing things like not wanting 274 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: to take the child care money, not having a paid leave, 275 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: conversation that same state is rolling back reproductive healthcare. There's 276 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: an opportunity to join together and fight for a different future. 277 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: And the strategy of sort of making people feel powerless 278 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: is how nothing gets done. We are super powerful, that's 279 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: so right. Yes, I do feel fired up. I'm pissed 280 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: and powerful and powerful. You know what's weird is that 281 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: I sometimes feel people don't even know where to get 282 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: the information. My most privileged friends, I'm like, oh, I 283 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: think there's like something in the state of California that 284 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: you can look into to get money for your maturity leave, 285 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: And literally they're like, wait, what I can I'm like, yet, 286 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: how do we better help our friends to know that 287 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: their state might have something available to them for a 288 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: paid family leave or you know, something like that. So, 289 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: if you're looking for information to know about what your 290 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: rights are and whether you have options, a good place 291 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: to start is the Department of Labor, either in your 292 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: state or the U. S Department of Labor. But you know, 293 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: they're one page explainers that usually break it down. I 294 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: also want to give a little shout out to one 295 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: of the things we do at the Law Centers We 296 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: run a legal network and people give consultations to folks 297 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out, wait, can I access 298 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: this leave program? What are my rights? And where's stand 299 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: ready to give consultations. And there are lots of organizations 300 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: in who work locally in states who give information to 301 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: So I want to make sure people know about that. 302 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: So you should never be in a situation where the 303 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: question is I don't know my rights. There are lots 304 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: of ways to get that. What other specific laws or 305 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: rights should we be fighting for or learn more about? 306 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: All Right? I know people say nothing happens in Washington. 307 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: There's a bill that I really feel like it can 308 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: happen in Washington, and it is called the Pregnant Workers 309 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: Fairness Act. Tell us more, tell us more. It is 310 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: a bill that requires employers to provide accommodations if pregnant 311 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: workers need them on the job. And those might look 312 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: like different things, right for some folks, that might mean 313 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: you need extra ppe, or you need a stool because 314 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: you sit at a cash register and it's uncomfortable, or 315 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: you need to be able to go to the bathroom 316 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: and you need to go to the bathroom, which I 317 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to say that if you've ever been pregnant, 318 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: you pee all the time, all the time. I couldn't imagine, 319 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: like that wouldn't be an option, like, oh my gosh, 320 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: I'm not allowed. You know, I worked in effect somewhere 321 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: where I'm only allowed one pea break every four hours. 322 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: I would be screwed, exactly, And unfortunately some workers are. 323 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: And so this is one of those things that who's 324 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: on the other side of the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act? 325 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: I still am not quite sure. And it passed the 326 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: House of Representatives with over three hundred votes. That is 327 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: not how things typically happen in the House, and is 328 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: super close in the Senate. This is an example of 329 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: a thing that should just happen right now for pregnant workers. 330 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: It's just essentially making that while you're working, you're working 331 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: under better circumstances whilst pregnant. That is right. And you know, 332 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: for for some folks, they might say, well, already, boss 333 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: is pretty good to me. I never had a problem 334 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: while working while I was pregnant. But unfortunately sometimes people 335 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: get are not so good boss, or they work in 336 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: a job that requires them to be on their feet 337 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: all day. You know, we hear from a lot of 338 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: teachers who are like, it's not going to work this way, 339 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: I have to do it another way. Or during COVID 340 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: it was coming up a lot where people needed remote access, 341 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: sometimes because their doctors told them not to be in 342 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: particular types of settings. It shouldn't require you to look 343 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: into a good boss who hears your accommodation needs in 344 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: order to be safe. In order to be safe, and 345 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to choose between having a healthy pregnancy 346 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: and having a job. Again, I just feel like people 347 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: don't know what their rights are. I don't know why, 348 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: but I I hear this a lot well. And part 349 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: of the challenge is that every state has a different 350 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: set of laws. And that is because we don't have 351 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: a national paid leave program where it's like, well know 352 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: the answer is x six days and X number of 353 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: days for parental leave. We don't have that. So every 354 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: state is different. Sometimes cities have rules that are different, 355 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: and so you do have to make sure that you're 356 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: matching your options with where you actually live. But that's 357 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: why I offered the there's the legal network for gender equity. 358 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: If people need tailored information or or believe they have 359 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: leave but they're not able to access it. There's also 360 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: really wonderful organizations where loking around the country, groups like 361 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: a Better Balance, the National Partnership for Women and Families, 362 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: the Paid Leave for All Campaign, who are trying to 363 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: both pass stronger national measures but also are doing a 364 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: good job educating people around what their rights are. What 365 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: are your goals for the next six months? So my 366 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: goals broadly at the Law Center. When I think about 367 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: the next six months, um at the on the other 368 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: side of the next six months, a couple of things 369 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: will have happened. Yes I need that too because I 370 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: was like six months one year. But yeah, you know, 371 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: it's fair, it's fair. I really do hope we're going 372 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: to get a big investment in care. It is a 373 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: big priority for us. We have not given up and 374 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: we're fighting for it. I also think we will have 375 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: confirmed and exceptionally qualified historic first black women to the 376 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. And you see me dancing in the street 377 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: as someone is I mean, as someone who has practiced, 378 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, law for a couple of decades. I don't 379 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: know that I would have thought in my legal career 380 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: that I would have seen it. And I think about 381 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: when I was in law school you know, I had 382 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: no black women professors when I was in law school. Uh. 383 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: I think about the ten years where we saw no 384 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: black women confirmed to the Courts of Appeals, and the 385 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: idea that there are so many black women who are 386 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: being considered they could fill up a couple of Supreme courts. Ah, 387 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: that would be amazing. So that is a goal, the 388 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: big one. What would be something achievable that we could 389 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: all very much help with in the next couple of years. 390 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: So when I think about the next couple of years, 391 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: and you know, we've got to get through this election 392 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: this fall, I hope people in this election will tell 393 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: the story and fight for care. I hope that's going 394 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: to be on the agenda. Leading on the agenda we're 395 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: about to enter. I believe a new period on access 396 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: to reproductive healthcare, and it's going to require people who 397 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: may or may not have engaged very much on the 398 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: issue to show up for people. And so I actually 399 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: hope that's what we see. I hope we see people 400 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: showing up, even if they're in a state we're all 401 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: options are on the table, that they're showing up for 402 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: everyone else. And that's going to be a new period 403 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: for us as a country, and I actually do believe 404 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: over the next couple of years we will shift totally 405 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: how we think about these types of care investments. I 406 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: don't think we're going back to the notion that it's 407 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: every family for themselves and good luck. I think if 408 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen this year, there will be a stronger 409 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: political force that emerges of mostly mamas, together with care workers, 410 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: together with those who need elder care, saying we are 411 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: all stronger together and we're demanding more, and so I 412 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: hope people will join that. I hope they will not 413 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: forget this period, and we'll join that, whether it is 414 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: fighting for something at the national level or for deeper 415 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: investments in their own communities. I feel so inspired by that. 416 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: How old are your children? Minor ten and thirteen? Oh? Wow, 417 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: that's so exciting. Do they think you have the coolest job? 418 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: Did they get it? Or they just like mom? It's 419 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: much more, you know, I have teens and tweens, so 420 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: I'm much more in the mom phase pretty much all 421 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: the time. Wow. And did you go back to work 422 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: right away when they were little? You know, I took 423 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: long leaves. I took four months the first time, which 424 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: is longer than the three and then the second time 425 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: I took around five months, and then I did some 426 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 1: intermittent and I will say I came back from my 427 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: first leave tired, exhausted, and was promoted to a vice 428 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: president within a few months. And I will tell you again, 429 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: I just want to name that that was at the time, 430 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: the National Women's lost in er investing in me and 431 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: investing me, not just sort of saying you've been gone 432 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: for quite a while, so I don't know what you're 433 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: capable of. Yeah, sure, um, And and that mattered. It 434 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: made me loyal, It made me appreciative of the time 435 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: and space, And so I think about that. People need 436 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: different things at different points in their career. There are 437 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: times when our caregiving obligations are deep and serious, and 438 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: what I hope is that employers wouldn't meet them. They 439 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't meet their employees where they are. When it doesn't happen, 440 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: that is when we know we have to set a floor. 441 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: We have to set a floor for the employees who 442 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: are not going to show up, so at the very 443 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: least they do things, and then if they want to 444 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: retain their staff, they'll do more. I feel the same. 445 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: I feel so grateful sitting here. I mean, obviously what 446 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: I do is in no way shape a comparison, but 447 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: I do have to say that, you know, being an actor, 448 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: you'd always heard like you better not get pregnant because 449 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: no one's gonna hire you. And you know you don't 450 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: want to be you know, you're in big trouble if 451 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: you don't book a job, you know, before three months, 452 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: and then everyone's showing you're never gonna work. And also 453 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: you're not sexy anymore and you're not this or that 454 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: or whatever. And Miss Shonda Rhymes, who produces this podcast, 455 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: sat me down and said, do you want to have 456 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: a family. You know, this was years ago, and I 457 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: was like, I do, and she was like, well, you 458 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: should definitely do it on my watch because I know 459 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: how to do it and I take care of my ladies. 460 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: And it's like famously known in Hollywood how any actress 461 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: who wants to be a mom is praying to get 462 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: on a shot show because she will take care of you. 463 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: She just goes above and beyond. You know, I was 464 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: back pump being in my trailer every three hours on 465 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: the dot. When I went back to work. At no 466 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: point was it an inconvenience or I was thought less 467 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: than I have an employee who was terrified to tell 468 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: me she was pregnant, and I was like, yes, you 469 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: have all the time off your need. I'm paying you 470 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: the whole time, you know, I mean, but but we 471 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: have to pay it forward. I feel so lucky to 472 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: have been treated that way through both of my pregnancies. 473 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: I was able to celebrate my pregnancies and coming back 474 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: to work because I was supported that I was then 475 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: able to do such a better job at my job, 476 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: and I never felt terrified to leave my baby. I 477 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: felt like I could do it, you know, because I 478 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: was supported in the workforce and my and at my 479 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: home life. You know, that's it. But that's investing in 480 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: your people, right. It's not actually rocket science, but it 481 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: also is too rare. And the reason people are terrified, 482 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: they're terrified for a good reason because with the wrong boss, 483 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: they might be fired or retaliate against. I mean, pregnancy 484 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: is actually a time retaliation is super super high, where 485 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: people it just so happened to lose their to lose 486 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: their jobs just when they need their income. And so 487 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: I actually think because if you know, the more we 488 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: tell the stories of what's possible. You know, if Shonda 489 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: Rhimes could tell the story of what it looks like 490 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: to create conditions where people can have families and thrive, 491 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: then it won't be a unicorn. Right. We wanted to 492 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: be the standard, and I can try to build that 493 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: standard through legislation and through lawsuits. That's one way. Also, 494 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: employers don't have to wait until they are forced to. 495 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: If they want right, and you were more loyal, your 496 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: staff is more likely to stay, they return, They're more productive, 497 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: they are healthier, they're all the benefits that that are 498 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: tied to actually investing in in their care means. That's 499 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: it we need to invest. I mean, and it's just 500 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: a microcosm for how how great it is all around 501 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: and how it could and possibly be in this optimist 502 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: utopian that you see hopefully for us someday. I don't 503 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: think it's going to be that far away. I mean, 504 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: I can't even tell you how many friends that I 505 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: had that were pregnant were so relieved that things were 506 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: on zoom because they were like, oh, I can put 507 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: myself up for that promotion because they won't know I'm 508 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: pregnant till week thirty and they won't pass over me 509 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: and I'm like, are we really still doing this? This 510 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: is a mayor. Yeah. I am so grateful for everything 511 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: that you are doing and for the National Women's Law Center. Again, 512 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: everyone listening, please look at the site. Forwarded onto any 513 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: friends you know who don't know what their rights are, 514 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: how they can get access two things that they should 515 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: be getting access to. And then also, guys, get involved. Vote. 516 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: These are the times we are on the brink, no question. 517 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I am so glad to be with you, and if 518 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: I could just echo the call to action to both 519 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: go to our site, please do but also vote. I 520 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: mean it matters. Fatima, thank you so much, thank you 521 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: for letting us be the last stop of your very busy, 522 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: important day. And to all of our listeners again, but 523 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: visit the site. We will put links to it, and um, 524 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: thank you again for fighting the fight. So very glad 525 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: to be here, so very glad. Oh wow, you guys, 526 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I 527 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: have to admit I started it off a little bit 528 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: bummed and like, oh man, we are screwed, and I 529 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: feel so much better. I mean, Teama Goss Graves just 530 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: inspired the hell out of me and I think we're 531 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: all on the brink of change and really helping out 532 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: our mamas and our pregnant women out there. What'd you 533 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: guys think of the episode? I want to hear from you. 534 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: What other guest topics do you want to hear about? 535 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: You can always find me Katie's Crib at Shonda land 536 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land 537 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 538 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: from Shonda land Audio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 539 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite ships.