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Speaker 1: Also Media.

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Speaker 2: Time. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where we talk

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Speaker 3: to the Internet's main characters and see how their moment

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Speaker 3: affects did them and what that says about us and

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Speaker 3: the Internet. My name is Jamie Loftus, and I genuinely,

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Speaker 3: deeply love movies that take place entirely on a computer screen.

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Speaker 3: I'm not interested in why you don't respect these films.

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Speaker 3: They're the best ones. And if you think I'm wrong,

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Speaker 3: maybe you haven't seen Unfriended. But I would like to

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Speaker 3: see a romcom in the computer movie genre. We got

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Speaker 3: to get away from the horror, we got to get

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Speaker 3: away from the thrillers. Everyone loves computer and today it's

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Speaker 3: part two of our look at the Overly Attached girlfriend

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Speaker 3: saga that started in twenty twelve and continues into today.

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Speaker 3: So if you haven't listened to the first part of

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Speaker 3: this series, kindly do that now. I'm serious, Go listen

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Speaker 3: to it. Okay, I think they're gone. To those who

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Speaker 3: have listened to part one, here's a quick refresher from

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Speaker 3: last week, because I know that two news cycles happen

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Speaker 3: a day now and you might need it. Lena Morris

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Speaker 3: was just a college student when The overly Attached girlfriend

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Speaker 3: memes first came to prominence during the summer of twenty twelve,

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Speaker 3: an Internet era where being a full time YouTuber was

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Speaker 3: just starting to look possible, but was still kind of

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Speaker 3: nebulous in what that would actually look like. Around the

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Speaker 3: time Lena left school to pursue YouTube full time from

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Speaker 3: her home base in Texas, she wasn't a part of

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Speaker 3: that generation of YouTubers that flocked to LA. The platform

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Speaker 3: itself was putting extreme emphasis on watch time, or how

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Speaker 3: much time a user spent on YouTube, and tweaked its

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Speaker 3: recommendation algorithm to keep people watching for as long as possible,

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Speaker 3: and if you know anything about YouTube, you know that

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Speaker 3: this super worked. But for Lena and creators on the

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Speaker 3: platform then and now, that meant they were encouraged to

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Speaker 3: produce a lot of content because the algorithm of this

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Speaker 3: time would boost users who posted often, which inadvertently rewarded

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Speaker 3: overwork and sometimes underthinking. Lena worked as a successful YouTuber

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Speaker 3: for over half a decade, at first just as the

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Speaker 3: overly attached girlfriend character, but later she wrote and performed

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Speaker 3: sketches as herself. She did reaction videos, she did get

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Speaker 3: to Know Me videos, and She became a familiar and

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Speaker 3: popular presence on the platform for years, while never getting

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Speaker 3: caught up in some of those influencer shit shows you

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Speaker 3: might associate with this era of YouTube, and from the outside,

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Speaker 3: she seemed pretty fulfilled doing it. But in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: Lena publicly admitted that this wasn't necessarily true. She had

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Speaker 3: been struggling with depression for some time and found that

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Speaker 3: the grind and self inflicted pressure of a YouTube career

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Speaker 3: had exacerbated that depression further, and so she said at

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Speaker 3: the time she was going to take a step back

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Speaker 3: from YouTube to take care of herself and wasn't sure

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Speaker 3: when she would be back. But just this past summer,

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Speaker 3: five years after first leaving YouTube, Lena posted again, reflecting

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Speaker 3: on the time away and wondering if, now that she'd

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Speaker 3: had the time to work on herself, if it wasn't

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Speaker 3: time to give YouTube another shot. I was lucky enough

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Speaker 3: to talk with Lena shortly after this video was released,

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Speaker 3: and she is, as you're about to hear, the coolest,

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Speaker 3: most humble, kind person. We talk about that first viral

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Speaker 3: moment back in twenty twelve, that era of the Internet

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Speaker 3: and the concept of burnout, especially during a time where

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Speaker 3: it wasn't a common talking point among creatives. So, without

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Speaker 3: further ado, widen your eyes and throw on a high

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Speaker 3: contrast T shirt because this is my interview with the

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Speaker 3: Overly Attached Girlfriend Lena Morris, and we talked for some time,

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Speaker 3: so this interview has been edited for time and clarity. Enjoy.

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Speaker 4: My name is Lena. I kind of got my start

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Speaker 4: on the internet about twelve years ago. I posted a

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Speaker 4: video that became a meme called the Overly Attached Girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: You are like an internet legend. I feel.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about, of course, like the moment

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Speaker 3: where everything first happened, but like you built such a

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Speaker 3: unique career. But first I wanted to talk about the

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Speaker 3: fact that you posted a video for the first time

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Speaker 3: in forever a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Weeks ago on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about this, the decision to come back to

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Speaker 3: YouTube after five years, right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, five years. I wanted to post a video just

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Speaker 4: like a five years later update type of video, which

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Speaker 4: what I ended up posting wasn't even there. Weren't really

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Speaker 4: even updates in that video, but I was thinking about

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Speaker 4: it when I posted. I posted a video five years ago,

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Speaker 4: kind of like quitting YouTube and talking about my mental

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Speaker 4: health and why I needed to quit and all of

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Speaker 4: those things, and the reaction to that was so like

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Speaker 4: overwhelmingly positive in a way I didn't expect. And I

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Speaker 4: got a lot of like comments and messages from people

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Speaker 4: that I think I mentioned in my recent video like

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Speaker 4: I saved them and I still read them now. They

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Speaker 4: it's just like a very over wilmingly great reaction that

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Speaker 4: I wanted to come back and sort of acknowledge that

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Speaker 4: and talk about it a little bit. And when I

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Speaker 4: started thinking about that and brainstorming like ideas for a

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Speaker 4: video or like do I even want to post one?

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Speaker 4: Do I not? Whatever, I just started getting this feeling

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Speaker 4: of like, you know, like maybe I actually want to

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Speaker 4: post multiple videos, or maybe I want to try and

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Speaker 4: like go back, which is not a thing I ever

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Speaker 4: thought it would happen. It wasn't in my head at all.

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Speaker 4: I think if it was, I probably couldn't come back.

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Speaker 4: So I decided to just like post a video five

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Speaker 4: years later and see how that felt and then sort

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Speaker 4: of take next steps based on how that felt. And

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Speaker 4: it felt pretty good. I haven't posted a video since then.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to after, to be honest, right after I

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Speaker 4: posted it, things in my personal life got a little crazy,

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Speaker 4: and I just like haven't gotten back to it, and

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Speaker 4: I wish I did. I think I still will. I

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Speaker 4: don't know, but I think that also seeing the reaction

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Speaker 4: to that video as well, like and that feeling good

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Speaker 4: sort of maybe having a grasp on my mental health

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Speaker 4: and stuff like. I don't know. I think there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of things that make it make sense to me

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Speaker 4: five years later. Yeah, a little like unexpected for me too.

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Speaker 1: Well, welcome back, maybe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe.

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Speaker 3: So I guess I want to go back back because

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Speaker 3: I feel like most of the interviews that I've found

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Speaker 3: that you've done over the years, I am curious just

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Speaker 3: a little bit about how you grew up.

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Speaker 1: Where did you grow up, What was life like?

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Speaker 4: Ooh fun? Okay, So I was born and raised in Texas,

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Speaker 4: North Texas, like that was Fort Worth area because I

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Speaker 4: lived there until I was like twenty six. I'm the

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Speaker 4: youngest of four kids. I went to college in Texas.

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Speaker 4: I had been going to college for like a couple

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Speaker 4: of years when the overly touch girlfriend stuff started and

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Speaker 4: I decided to like take a break, and I haven't

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Speaker 4: gone back to sort of pursue that but life right

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Speaker 4: before the meme was ver very much just like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: going to school, working part time, just kind of like

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Speaker 4: a very normal I was going to school to be

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Speaker 4: a teacher. I knew that, Like I didn't really want

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Speaker 4: to do that. I was just sort of in this

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Speaker 4: like what am I going to do? Stage when everything

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Speaker 4: took off.

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Speaker 3: So did you grow up performing? Were you interested in performing?

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Speaker 4: No? I mean I was the youngest of four kids,

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Speaker 4: so in a way, it's.

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Speaker 1: Like jockey for attention.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like in that way, I performed every day of

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Speaker 4: my life. Yeah, I was certainly interested in it. I

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Speaker 4: think if I maybe had. I think if I had,

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Speaker 4: maybe I would have been a kid that would have

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Speaker 4: enjoyed probably like theater or something like that. I just like, never,

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Speaker 4: it's never a thing that I did. I always really

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Speaker 4: liked comedy. I do think that, like this is so

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Speaker 4: embarrassing and obnoxious, But there was something about the attention

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Speaker 4: of like being the class clown or like something in

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Speaker 4: my face, Like there was something there that was like

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Speaker 4: I want, I like the feeling of like making people laugh,

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Speaker 4: getting that reaction. That was certainly there. But there was

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Speaker 4: no performing in any way, And.

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Speaker 3: That makes like your trajectory all the more interesting where

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Speaker 3: it's like it truly is like an overnet.

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Speaker 1: The video, the original video. I went back and watch it.

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Speaker 1: It's still very funny.

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Speaker 3: It still hits thank you and thanks and overnight that

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Speaker 3: changes your life in this huge way. So I guess

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Speaker 3: before we get to that, at the point that you

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Speaker 3: made the original video, what was your relationship with the

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Speaker 3: internet like around that time in college?

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Speaker 4: Wow, I don't know. Let me think for us, Agad.

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of, like what I guess I

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Speaker 4: had a Facebook. I'm trying to think of what social

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Speaker 4: media looked like back then. I feel like back then too,

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Speaker 4: it was always like there was like one social media

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Speaker 4: at a time, Like when I was younger, I had

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Speaker 4: like a zanga than a mice face, then a Facebook,

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Speaker 4: Like it was all just like one. It wasn't this

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Speaker 4: like explosion of all of the you know, Instagram, Twitter,

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Speaker 4: TikTok whatever it is now. Yeah, I mean I had

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Speaker 4: a Facebook. There was no I didn't have like any

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Speaker 4: public social media. Maybe I had a Twitter. Instagram wasn't

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Speaker 4: a thing yet. I didn't even know what right it

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Speaker 4: was until I posted the video. So honestly, remember I'm like,

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Speaker 4: where did I get my news and information? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, I guess it was just mostly like Facebook.

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Speaker 4: And I mean I watched a decent amount of YouTube.

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Speaker 4: I knew that, like some people were doing it as

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Speaker 4: a job. I knew that was like kind of a thing.

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Speaker 4: I watched Jenna Marbles, I really liked Bo Burnham. I

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Speaker 4: watched I think a little bit of like Jimmy Titrow

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Speaker 4: stuff like that. But I all, my mind is going

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Speaker 4: to his.

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Speaker 3: Facebook as forever ago as the Internet in twenty twelve

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Speaker 3: feels it's that you could still set your relationship status

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Speaker 3: to It's complicated.

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Speaker 1: It just like walk me.

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Speaker 3: Through the moment you hear of this Justin Bieber contest.

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Speaker 3: What are the parameters of the contest?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I heard about this contest. So maybe that's

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Speaker 4: the thing I was doing on the internet because I

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Speaker 4: found that somehow, I.

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Speaker 1: Was like, I wonder where that even.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, I somehow came across this contest.

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Speaker 4: Justin Bieber was having so he had this new fragrance

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Speaker 4: coming out called Girlfriend, and he had this song that

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Speaker 4: had just been released called Boyfriend, and he asked his

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Speaker 4: fans to write a parody of the song from a

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Speaker 4: girlfriend's perspective and upload it to YouTube. Well, I remember

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Speaker 4: immediately thinking like, I want to make this funny. How

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Speaker 4: can I make it funny? I'll make it just like

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Speaker 4: kind of creepy stocker girlfriend whatever. I remember just like

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Speaker 4: being really excited to write this song. I had this

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Speaker 4: piece of paper that I took I think I took

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Speaker 4: it to work with me that day and I was

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Speaker 4: like in between like working and I was like writing these.

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Speaker 1: Lyrics and where were you waiting?

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Speaker 4: I was working at a place called pack and Mail

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Speaker 4: in Denton, Texas. It was just exactly what it sounds like.

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Speaker 4: I was in a rush to film the video because

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Speaker 4: I thought it had to be submitted by a certain time.

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Speaker 4: I changed out of my work shirt really quickly after

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Speaker 4: work one day to record it. I just grabbed like

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Speaker 4: this T shirt that was on the floor of my bedroom,

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Speaker 4: recorded it on my webcam. I had done like a

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Speaker 4: couple takes. Maybe I feel like, also, I'm so at

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Speaker 4: this point in my life, I'm like, what am I remembering?

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Speaker 4: And what have I said so many times that I

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Speaker 4: just believe it's true? Yeah, But I do have a

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Speaker 4: very clear memory who knows where it came from, having

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Speaker 4: this period of time of this just like instrumental at

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Speaker 4: the beginning where I didn't know what to do. So

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Speaker 4: I think on like the last take, I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to make this like creepy face and just

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Speaker 4: stare right into the camera. So that's what I did.

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Speaker 4: I uploaded the video. I posted it to my Facebook

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Speaker 4: just for like my friends and family to see, and

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Speaker 4: then someone on my Facebook or something posted it to Reddit.

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Speaker 1: Was it just a screencap or like the whole video?

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Speaker 4: I think posted the whole video, just like a link

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Speaker 4: to the YouTube video. Then someone on Reddit took a

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Speaker 4: screenshot from the beginning where I made that face looked

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Speaker 4: into the camera, and then that became the meme. But

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Speaker 4: before I went to bed that night, I knew like

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Speaker 4: the video had taken off a little bit. When I

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Speaker 4: woke up the next morning, that's when the meme was everywhere.

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Speaker 4: That's when like the overly attached girlfriend was a thing,

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Speaker 4: after someone had taken that screenshot and it blew up.

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Speaker 4: That blew up like separately on Reddit. I guess someone

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Speaker 4: I think commented on the video and said that they

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Speaker 4: came from Reddit or something about the front page of

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Speaker 4: Reddit something like that, and I looked it up because

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Speaker 4: I was like one to Reddit. Then I started like

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Speaker 4: reading comments on Reddit and sort of like seeped into

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Speaker 4: other parts of the Internet. But yeah, I read it

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Speaker 4: is where it first took off.

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Speaker 3: And when we come back more with Lena Morris, Welcome

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Speaker 3: back to sixteenth minute and let's jump right back into

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Speaker 3: my interview with the overly Attached girlfriend Lena Morris. Take

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Speaker 3: me through the day that you're realizing that this is

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Speaker 3: a thing. Do you feel like the meme format like

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Speaker 3: captured what you were going for originally?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I think so. I think I'm also like,

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Speaker 4: I feel very lucky that I'm like in on the

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Speaker 4: joke of it too. I think amodi memes like don't

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Speaker 4: have that, which I feel like it became this big

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Speaker 4: joke online. I just feel like lucky that I'm in

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Speaker 4: on that joke and it wasn't just like a regular

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Speaker 4: picture of me smiling and everyone was like, oh look,

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Speaker 4: this creepy.

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Speaker 3: Girl having all the internet brain rat knowledge that I have,

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Speaker 3: knowing like, oh, well, this person was in on the

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Speaker 3: reason they became famous.

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Speaker 1: This person had to meet the moment.

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Speaker 3: And decide how do I want to cope with it,

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Speaker 3: so I think, yeah, that's that's a great point.

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Speaker 1: So was it ever uncomfortable in those early days to

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Speaker 1: like see your image everywhere?

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Speaker 3: Did it feel like you'd like lost any sort of

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Speaker 3: like agency over your own image?

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Speaker 1: Was it exciting?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? It was. I think my memories of that time

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Speaker 4: are mostly like it was just like really exciting. I

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Speaker 4: think the Internet certainly took it and ran like I

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Speaker 4: you know, I didn't call I didn't come up with

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Speaker 4: overly attached girlfriend like a name for the meme. I

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Speaker 4: didn't make it a meme. And so I feel like

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Speaker 4: the Internet very much took this thing and like made

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Speaker 4: it their own, and it sort of like fell out

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Speaker 4: of my hands pretty quickly in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 4: But I remember it just feeling like really cool. I

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Speaker 4: can't believe this is happening, like it's supposed to here

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Speaker 4: and now it's supposed to hear. I can't believe like

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Speaker 4: this person has seen my face. There did come a

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Speaker 4: point where I felt really disconnected from the meme, and

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Speaker 4: I will, like even now sometimes obviously it doesn't happen

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Speaker 4: as often, but I'll just like randomly stumble upon it

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Speaker 4: every now and then and it feels much more like, oh,

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Speaker 4: there's my meme rather than like there's me or like

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Speaker 4: my face or I don't know, there's like some disconnect

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Speaker 4: that happened at some point. Yeah, I think my overall,

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Speaker 4: my memory of it is like very positive and like overwhelming,

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Speaker 4: but in like a very fun, exciting way. I do

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Speaker 4: think it was out of my hands a bit pretty quickly,

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Speaker 4: but not in a way it felt negative. Back then,

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Speaker 4: you could send people messages on YouTube direct messages, and

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Speaker 4: so my inbox was a little flooded, but mostly with

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Speaker 4: just like random people. There was like no other way

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Speaker 4: to contact me at first. Also accept that then when

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Speaker 4: I posted the second video and that kind of blew

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Speaker 4: up a little bit as well. That's when I think

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Speaker 4: I started getting a lot more like people reached. I

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Speaker 4: had like some management reach out at that time, like

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Speaker 4: wanting to work together and things like that, but I

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Speaker 4: think that that was after I sort of kept it

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Speaker 4: going with that second video.

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Speaker 3: So there is like sort of this moment where you

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Speaker 3: post the first video as a joke, you're basically assigned

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Speaker 3: a character kind of you've written it yourself, but it's

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Speaker 3: also sort of being co created by people making the meme.

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Speaker 1: All right, cool, let's make another one.

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Speaker 3: How do you go through this period of deciding, you

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Speaker 3: know what, I want to keep this going and then

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Speaker 3: what do I want this to look like?

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Speaker 4: Well, before any of this happened, I really wanted to

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Speaker 4: be in entertainment in some capacity and I just never

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Speaker 4: pursued it because it felt like an impossible thing. I

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Speaker 4: didn't know what to do. Like I remember talking to

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Speaker 4: my dad once about like what if I just moved

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Speaker 4: to LA And then I'm like, but what do I

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Speaker 4: do when I get there? Or like I don't have money,

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Speaker 4: Like I don't know. I just remember being like I

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Speaker 4: want to be in this world, but I don't have

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Speaker 4: So that was in me a little bit. And I

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Speaker 4: had made videos with friends like in college and stuff,

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Speaker 4: just like silly goofy videos that I think were posted

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Speaker 4: and taken down at some point, and so like it

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Speaker 4: was in me a little bit, like I remember posting

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Speaker 4: silly videos with my friends and maybe it was like

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Speaker 4: on their channel or something and like watching and seeing

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Speaker 4: like oh I wonder if anyone else will see this whatever?

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Speaker 4: And that way I was there. So when that took off,

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Speaker 4: it was like really exciting and I knew some people

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Speaker 4: were like doing it full time. I started getting like followers.

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Speaker 4: I made a Twitter, people started following me on Twitter.

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Speaker 4: I decided to post that second video, and then I

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Speaker 4: think after the second video, I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 4: think this could actually be like a job or like

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Speaker 4: a thing I could really pursue. And I remember talking

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Speaker 4: to my parents about it then. And then that's also

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Speaker 4: when like management reached out. That's when I started thinking like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this could be a thing I could really pursue and

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Speaker 4: could be really good. I just thought at that time,

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Speaker 4: like I'll just go with it for as long as

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Speaker 4: it works and see what happens. I'm so glad you

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Speaker 4: mentioned the thing about like my brain not being fully developed,

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Speaker 4: because I feel like at the time, like being twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty one, I felt so old. I felt like such

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Speaker 4: an adult. And then now at thirty three, I can

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Speaker 4: like look back and I have like you did not

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Speaker 4: know what was happening to you and your world got

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Speaker 4: so crazy so quickly. But there was so much of

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Speaker 4: me at the time, in like my early twenties that

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Speaker 4: when things got like challenging and there was a lot

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Speaker 4: of like why can't I figure out how to do this,

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Speaker 4: how to maintain this whatever I'll have to say. It's

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Speaker 4: just like validating to hear you say that, because it's

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Speaker 4: so different, like looking back at that time now versus

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Speaker 4: being in the thick of it in the moment, and.

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Speaker 3: That not only are you young and having to sort

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Speaker 3: of make these decisions because of the nature of the Internet,

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Speaker 3: I imagine you had to make them pretty quickly. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I know that there were This was like the early

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Speaker 3: days of YouTubers and internet personalities making a full time

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Speaker 3: living work. So in twenty twelve, like, what was the

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Speaker 3: kind of.

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Speaker 1: Advice you were getting? Like, what was the past that.

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Speaker 3: Was sort of laid before you at this time. I imagine

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Speaker 3: it's changed a lot over the years, but maybe not.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's definitely changed. In fact, when I was thinking

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Speaker 4: about making a second YouTube video recently, there was a

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Speaker 4: part of me that's like, I really need to make

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Speaker 4: something about like becoming a meme in twenty twelve versus

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Speaker 4: like twenty twenty four. And for some reason, I'd been

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Speaker 4: getting a lot of people asking me about the Hawktua girl,

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Speaker 4: And like, I don't know why, because it's such a

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Speaker 4: vastly different time. What advice would you give her. What

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Speaker 4: did you ask me the advice I was getting at

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Speaker 4: the time, So I remember, like I did the thing

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Speaker 4: that immediately popped into my brain when you asked me

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Speaker 4: that was I did this interview for a radio station,

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Speaker 4: like pretty early on. It was one of my very

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Speaker 4: first interviews I ever heard, and I remember the host

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Speaker 4: of this radio show trying to like, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: just like kind of like tell me what I should do,

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Speaker 4: how I should handle it. And I remember him telling me,

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Speaker 4: you need to make a Facebook, like a public Facebook.

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Speaker 4: You need to upload photos of yourself that aren't in character,

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Speaker 4: like you need to post as Lena. I remember I

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Speaker 4: came up with a fake last name for that interview

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Speaker 4: because he was like, you know, you might not want

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Speaker 4: your last name out there, which I think that's a

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Speaker 4: huge difference twenty twelve versus now. Everyone's like, oh, don't

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Speaker 4: give your name out like, which is honestly like kind

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Speaker 4: of stuck with me. I still don't have my last

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Speaker 4: name on my socials. That fake last name I gave

401
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Speaker 4: back then is still pops up as like people thinking

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Speaker 4: it's my last name. So like funny advice like that,

403
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Speaker 4: but I think would never be given now. Yeah. I

404
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 4: think when I signed with like management, that was like

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Speaker 4: all new and I was just like, yeah, tell me

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Speaker 4: what to do.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I understand why people are asking you

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Speaker 3: about how to a girl. There are enough similarities between

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Speaker 3: the trajectories that I understand why people are asking where

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Speaker 3: it's like a similar age.

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Speaker 1: Someone who is in on the joke, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden there's management involved, and it seems like the

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Speaker 1: question is like okay, what now, Like what do we do?

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Speaker 3: I went back and sort of went through in like

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Speaker 3: that first year a lot of mainstream appearances and like

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Speaker 3: crossing over into mainstream media. But what was that period, Like,

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Speaker 3: are there any appearances or things that stand out to you?

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Speaker 4: I think the craziest you one that hands out to

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Speaker 4: me and that was like the most fun was I

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Speaker 4: got to be on Jimmy Fallon. That was so cool.

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Speaker 4: I just I was that whole experience was awesome. My

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Speaker 4: manager called me and said, there was like this writer

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Speaker 4: at Fallon. They were wondering if I would happen to

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Speaker 4: be in New York at this period time. If so,

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Speaker 4: like they would want me to do this thing on

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Speaker 4: the show. And I was like, I will happen to

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Speaker 4: be in New York at whatever time, Like, yeah, so

428
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Speaker 4: I got my own ticket, flew there with my I

429
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Speaker 4: took like my best friend with me. It was just

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Speaker 4: like a magical experience. We got this hotel, you got

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Speaker 4: like the driver picked us up to take us to

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Speaker 4: the studio. It was so much fun. That is like

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Speaker 4: the memory that stands out to me the most.

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Speaker 3: Once you're on YouTube full time and like adjusting to

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Speaker 3: that grind, were you balancing it with auditioning for other

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Speaker 3: stuff and like where where did you want things to

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Speaker 3: head at that time or were you being pressured in

438
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 3: any particular direction.

439
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 4: I started posting regularly after that second one. It became

440
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 4: my job pretty quickly, or it just I mean it

441
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 4: became I started making money from it pretty quickly, even

442
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 4: just from like the first video. So I stuck with

443
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 4: YouTube mostly just doing YouTube, and then very quickly I

444
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: think the conversation came up just with like friends that

445
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 4: were also doing YouTube and like management and stuff of

446
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 4: like what where do we want this to go? Do

447
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 4: you want to act? Do you want to do a

448
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 4: stand up? Do you want to write? Whatever? I felt

449
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 4: really overwhelmed with like not knowing what to do or

450
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 4: how to do it. I also at the time, I

451
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 4: had a really really difficult time with feeling like I

452
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 4: have to move to LA, like I just have to.

453
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 4: I felt a lot of pressure to do that. I

454
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 4: felt like if I pursue anything in this world, in

455
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 4: this industry, I just have to be there. And I

456
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 4: felt really conflicted with my life in Texas versus like

457
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: do I go to LA. It's so like I can't

458
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 4: have I like shouldn't have regrets. But when I look

459
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 4: back and I'm like, I was like, oh, I don't

460
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 4: I hope if I moved to LA, I might break

461
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 4: up with my boyfriends, so I shouldn't do that, And

462
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 4: like I just like little like twenty twenty one year

463
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 4: old thoughts where I'm.

464
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: Just totally like yeah, don La.

465
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 4: Yeah. I feel like very quickly I got really stuck

466
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 4: not knowing what to do. I felt a lot of

467
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 4: pressure to figure out what to do. I would start

468
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 4: to think like, Okay, maybe I want to act, and

469
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 4: then I would go back on that and be like

470
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, Like who am I to like decidle

471
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 4: of a sudden, I'm an actor just because I posted

472
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 4: this like YouTube video. I want to write but I

473
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 4: don't know how to pursue that I wasn't doing like

474
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 4: auditions or anything. But there are things I look back

475
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: on now, like there was certainly opportunities that I had

476
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 4: been that I don't have now that I didn't take

477
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 4: because I was just like so afraid or unsure of

478
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: what to do. Yeah, and like, I can't really regret

479
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: it because I look back at that version of me

480
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 4: and I'm like, of course, like, of course you were overwhelmed.

481
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 4: You had no idea what to do. But at the

482
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: same time, it's like, oh my gosh, like the things

483
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 4: I could have done had I just not been afraid

484
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 4: to do them, But yeah, there was no There was

485
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 4: certainly pressure to like do something outside of YouTube, but

486
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 4: there was no I felt very frozen and stuck and

487
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: not knowing what direction to go, and I just kind

488
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 4: of didn't and stuck with YouTube.

489
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: When we come back more with the overly Attached Girlfriend

490
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 3: Lena Morris, Welcome back to sixteenth Minute. It's the most

491
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 3: wonderful time of the year. And by that I mean

492
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: that for some reason, Pee Wee's Big Adventures back in

493
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: theaters and I just got tickets to a haunted hay

494
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: Ride and here is the rest of my talk with

495
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: Lena Morris. So, when you were making those early videos, yeah,

496
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: I mean were you making them completely alone? Like, how

497
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: were those early videos coming together once it became your job.

498
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 4: I was making them alone. I think that's pretty obvious.

499
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 4: If you go back alone, there's no like there's so

500
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 4: many people that I feel like, say, and this is true.

501
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 4: This is true for a lot of people. They'll be like, well,

502
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 4: like doing YouTube, you're like the writer and the director

503
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 4: and you're the actor and you're the editor, and like

504
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 4: anytime I see that, I'm like yeah. But like I

505
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 4: felt like for a very long time like this when

506
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 4: I'm hesitating because I don't want to, I think just

507
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 4: me personally, not anyone else's experience. Like I think I

508
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 4: wasn't putting as much work into it as like for

509
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 4: a long time, I was like getting out of it,

510
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 4: if that makes sense. Like I just felt like this

511
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 4: isn't like that hard. But also I'm not really like

512
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 4: doing anything big. There was no big like production in

513
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 4: my videos. There were a lot of people that were

514
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 4: doing that. I think one thing that I realized recently,

515
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 4: especially with like thinking about coming back to YouTube, I

516
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 4: immediately was sucked into this thing and then felt pressure

517
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 4: to post every week, but with no plan and like

518
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 4: no experience doing it. I was like learning how along

519
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: the way, I was learning how to edit as I

520
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 4: was going and thinking about it now, it's like, but

521
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 4: I could be more in that mindset looking at it

522
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 4: as a job in a different way than I think

523
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 4: I did back then. Back then it was so like

524
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 4: I just felt all the time like I don't know

525
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 4: what I'm doing. I have no idea what I'm doing,

526
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: and I guess I'll post like this. I look back

527
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 4: at some videos and a lot of them are private

528
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 4: and now for that reason. But I'll look back at

529
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 4: a video, watch it, watch this version of me that

530
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 4: talks for like two minutes, and it's like, Okay, well

531
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: see you next week, and I'm like what if I

532
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 4: what did I spend that whole week doing? That's like

533
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 4: that's it. But I think I just like never had

534
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: a chance to just like step back and think, like

535
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: what do I want this to be? I was just

536
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 4: in it and like I don't know. Very often this

537
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 4: overwhelming feeling of like what am I doing? Like once

538
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 4: or twice a year, I would get together with these

539
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 4: friends at these YouTube conventions. It was the first time,

540
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 4: the only time in the year that I got to

541
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 4: be around people that did what I did and talk

542
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 4: about it and like how are.

543
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: You doing this?

544
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: And what do you do for whatever? Like that's just

545
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 4: it was a very like lonely thing that I didn't

546
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 4: have a lot of yeah, like direction except for just

547
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 4: looking at what are other people doing? There was a

548
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: whole lot of direction from the outside.

549
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: I don't think in the years you were doing YouTube

550
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: consistently navigating parasocial relationships, navigating audience expectations, or even perceived

551
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: audience expectations.

552
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm curious of how you use dealt with the relationship

553
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: with your audience.

554
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 4: That was hard because it was just like a lot

555
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 4: of people all at once, all wanting to see different things,

556
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: me not knowing where to take it, what to do.

557
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 4: To be honest, it was like a decent amount of

558
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 4: men on the internet, and that was like really hard

559
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: to handle, like navigate how do I handle like these

560
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: situations that would come up that sometimes would put me

561
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: in a position to feel a little like uncomfortable or

562
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 4: even at certain points like unsafe. It's not a normal

563
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 4: experience for people to like have all these people that

564
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 4: you don't know just like know you and want to

565
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: like talk to you and want different things. And that

566
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: being said, it's also like really cool. I had a

567
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 4: lot of really good experiences. I think it just took

568
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 4: some time to get used to. It took some time

569
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 4: to figure out how to kind of like disconnect from

570
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 4: this version of me that's online versus my personal life.

571
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: And so, at what point in making the regular YouTube

572
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: content did you start to struggle with mental health? And

573
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: it also seems like some burnout and pressure and yeah,

574
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 3: when did that start?

575
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: It started a year and a half in or so,

576
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 4: or maybe a little sooner than that. I made a

577
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: video and I can't actually remember when. This was the

578
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: first time I cried on the internet talking about how

579
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 4: like I didn't know what I was doing and I

580
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 4: was unsure. But it was around that time when I

581
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 4: started to just feel like like I didn't have any

582
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 4: direction and I didn't know where to go from there.

583
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 4: There was also like there is something about when you

584
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 4: start way up at the top, which is a very

585
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: lucky thing I got to experience having like my first

586
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 4: video go viral, but also there's really like nowhere to

587
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 4: go but down. After that, and so like for a

588
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 4: long time, everything I posted, I'm like, if it doesn't

589
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: go viral, I'm failing ridiculous, because especially back then, it's

590
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: like you don't get viral videos very often, if at all. Yeah,

591
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: I just started to feel like I don't know, I

592
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 4: don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know what

593
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: direction to go with this. It's also like I was

594
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 4: at a point in my life where all my friends

595
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 4: are graduating college, starting their careers, and I am like, here,

596
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: I am alone in my apartment, film me a silly video.

597
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: And there's also something to be said for like working

598
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: from home, spending all of your time alone. I think

599
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 4: when I look back now, I'm like a year and

600
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 4: a half or so in that makes sense to me

601
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 4: because that's kind of when the energy and craziness of

602
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: like the viral moment sort of started to wear down.

603
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: And now it's just like I'm stuck with Okay, now

604
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 4: now what kind of feeling? And I did. I did

605
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: drive out of school to pursue that, and that was

606
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 4: some pressure. Like I also just like I struggled with

607
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 4: my mental health for a lot of reasons. I think

608
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 4: that just never having a moment to figure it out

609
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: or take a break, or it just sort of spiraled

610
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 4: from there.

611
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: I guess how long were you in that holding pattern?

612
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: A long time? When you are like I have to

613
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: keep going or I lose this, then you're also creating

614
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 4: content you're not happy with. Or that's my experience. I

615
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: honestly think that there was a part of me not

616
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 4: that was like doing it on purpose, but I certainly

617
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: wasn't putting my own all into what I was creating,

618
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 4: And I think that that was there was a part

619
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 4: of me that was using it as like kind of

620
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 4: a way to protect myself. Like if I'm not super

621
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: happy with what I'm making, then the numbers being bad

622
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: or the reaction being bad doesn't hurt as much because

623
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, yeah, I know, like I didn't try

624
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 4: super hard on that, and that's easier than like putting

625
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: my all into this and then failing. I feel like

626
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: when you're when you're working your job and you're like

627
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: not doing a great job at it, like it's not

628
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: normal for like everyone in your life to be able

629
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 4: to go look and see that that's happening. That was

630
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: hard because I feel like it's so obvious there's like

631
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 4: numbers right there in front of you that people are seeing. Yeah,

632
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 4: I think I was burnt out without knowing what burnout

633
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 4: was at that time, and feeling like I don't know

634
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: what I'm doing, I feel pressure whatever. I remember other

635
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: YouTubers reaching out to me after that and being like

636
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: I feel that too, and like You're not alone in this,

637
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 4: this is hard whatever. And then it got to a

638
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: point where I don't know exactly when, but almost every

639
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: YouTube convention I would go to, there would be a

640
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: conversation just like a room full of YouTubers being like

641
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: what are we doing? Like you know, like that was

642
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: a pretty common conversation, or people would like talk about

643
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: feeling burnt out, or a lot of people would move

644
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 4: to other platforms because they felt better in certain ways.

645
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: And I remember when the goal for all of us

646
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 4: was like hitting a million subscribers, Like I remember, you

647
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: knew when another creator like hit a million subscribers, and

648
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 4: then you're counting down to when you hit a million subscribers.

649
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 4: That was like a big goal we all had, and

650
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 4: you know, like it's just so interesting to see now

651
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 4: there are people with like millions and millions of subscribers

652
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 4: it's almost like when everyone has it then. Anyway, I

653
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 4: think that there was like this excitement about it in

654
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 4: the beginning, this like thing we were all doing these

655
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 4: goals or whatever, and then it became like flooded with

656
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 4: so much more people. It started to become more mainstream,

657
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 4: It started to become more of like a career for people.

658
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 4: People were getting kind of launched into the mainstream space

659
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: and wondering if they should leave you tube, what are

660
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 4: we doing? It was always like what are you going

661
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: to do next? Do you do outside of this? Whereas

662
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 4: now like that is a conversation, but also a lot

663
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 4: of people are just doing YouTube and that's it and

664
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 4: that's great and like the end and like this is

665
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: and I don't feel like that was as much as

666
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 4: of the conversation ten years ago.

667
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: And while you're navigating all of this, you also make

668
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: the decision to go into therapy. What motivated you to

669
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: finally go for it, and then further down the line,

670
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: what motivated you to share sort of that journey with

671
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: your viewers.

672
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: I think in twenty thirteen, I started to struggle with

673
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: my mental health, but I didn't really know that. I

674
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: think my manager at the time actually told me that

675
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: she felt like I should go to therapy, but I

676
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: said something like, I feel like you could hand me

677
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: everything I've ever wanted on a silver plata right now,

678
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 4: and I would be like, do I have to like

679
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: get up? I have to like like that was like

680
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: the feeling like I could have everything and almost felt

681
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 4: that way. I felt like it did kind of have

682
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: everything I wanted, or at least the opportunity to, and

683
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: I was like, I just like just so overwhelmed. And

684
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 4: then there's all this guilt that comes with that, right,

685
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 4: because then you're like living this life you really want

686
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: to live, but then you're like not happy. And then

687
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: several years later I moved. I moved to Arizona when

688
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 4: I was twenty six. Pretty soon after that, maybe a

689
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 4: year after moving, I remember like thinking I needed some

690
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 4: help maybe with my mental health. And then one moment

691
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 4: that really sticks out in my mind is my partner

692
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 4: at the time and I were like in an argument

693
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: something I was overreacting, which was a very like I

694
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 4: feel like there was a lot of that when my

695
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 4: mental health was that it's worse. It was a lot

696
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 4: of overreacting to a lot of things, like if I

697
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: didn't have a video that week. It would just be

698
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 4: like it would like kill me and I would just

699
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 4: like be like beating myself up over it. I couldn't

700
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 4: do anything else. And we were having a fight and

701
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 4: I was overreacting, not being great in that argument. And

702
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: then I went to the room to be alone. He

703
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 4: came in and he was like just very sweet and

704
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 4: kind and giving me a lot of grace. He was like,

705
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: do you think it's time for you to get some help?

706
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: And like, I think that moment it sticks out in

707
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: my mind, especially because I was just I don't know,

708
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 4: I was being so obnoxious and then for the reaction

709
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 4: to be like, hey, I like know you, and I

710
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: think maybe it's time. And I think I started reaching

711
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 4: out to therapists after that. Then I started therapy and

712
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: it was amazing, but I think I really needed to

713
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: go at a time where I came to terms without.

714
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: Myself what sort of led to the decision to take

715
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 3: a step back from YouTube.

716
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 4: So when I moved from Texas to Arizona, I had

717
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 4: already I think the move was overwhelming, just you know,

718
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 4: my life changed quite a bit, not having my community there,

719
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 4: just a lot of it was like very overwhelming and

720
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 4: I took a step back from YouTube, and in my

721
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: head I was like, oh, I'm just going to take

722
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 4: like a week or two and get moved and whatever.

723
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 4: And then I just like didn't really go back or

724
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: like I made a video every now and then, but

725
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 4: it was in my head. I think I just thought

726
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 4: at first like I'm definitely going to go back, and

727
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 4: I wasn't going back. Then I was like, well, I

728
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 4: can't just leave without saying anything. For some reason, it

729
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,959
Speaker 4: was like really important to me to make a video.

730
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: If I'm going to stop, I want to like say goodbye.

731
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: In therapy, I started talking about YouTube and like what

732
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: does that look like? From this point on? Do I

733
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 4: want to do anything outside of YouTube? And then like

734
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 4: very slowly I started to be like, well, do I

735
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 4: even want to go back at all? Do I quit?

736
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 4: If I quit? What does that look like? What does

737
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 4: it feel like? There was a lot of like homework

738
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 4: assignments for my therapist that was like right about how

739
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: it would feel to walk away from this, you know,

740
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: like what does it feel like? As soon as I

741
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 4: started entertaining the idea of like walking away from YouTube,

742
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 4: it was almost like, Oh, I can do this thing

743
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: that I like very clearly need to do. The last

744
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 4: video I made where I just like said goodbye to

745
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: YouTube was actually my therapist told me like to film

746
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 4: a goodbye video to kind of see how that felt,

747
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 4: and that is the video that I ended up posting.

748
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: And so I think with the film, it was like

749
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 4: as soon as I started, my body knew like, oh here,

750
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 4: this is it, Like we're quitting and right. So that's

751
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 4: kind of how it got to that point. From the

752
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 4: time I started thinking about quitting YouTube to the time

753
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 4: I made the video telling everyone I was quitting YouTube

754
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 4: was probably like a little over a year.

755
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 3: So that's in twenty nineteen, and I know that the

756
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 3: community reaction was universally supportive. How do you return to

757
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: your life without this thing that's been a part of

758
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 3: it for like your whole adulthood up to this point.

759
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was hard. I think I had to really

760
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 4: grieve a loss. Like I said, I hadn't really been

761
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 4: posting for a while, but I think something about just

762
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: like making it official and like making a goodbye and

763
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 4: stepping away was like really hard. Yeah, it truly felt

764
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 4: like I had to like grieve a loss almost like

765
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 4: a relationship, like I was like, Okay, this thing that

766
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 4: I just like know and it has become like my

767
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: identity almost to just like gone, which might be a

768
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 4: little dramatic because I know I still online, still doing things,

769
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 4: but I think the initial feeling felt very dramatic, felt

770
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 4: like I also was really focusing on my mental health

771
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: and my personal life and like relationships in my personal life.

772
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: To be totally honest, like I don't talk about my

773
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 4: personal life super publicly, but like a lot has changed

774
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 4: in the years since quitting. I think, like quitting and

775
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 4: then focusing on like my happiness and like, okay, what

776
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: so burnt out and struggling so much of this and

777
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 4: like now my energy is on like everything else, and

778
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 4: like what do I need to do for like myself

779
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 4: and my happiness? And it was difficult, it was hard,

780
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 4: but also there was just this freedom that came with it,

781
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 4: and like this weight off my shoulders and I had

782
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: the gift of time to just focus on myself and

783
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 4: that's what I did. By the time I quit, I

784
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 4: had already like not posted for a while very regularly.

785
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 4: It didn't feel like a crazy big switch in my life.

786
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: And then I guess just to like bring us up

787
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: to the present and in the last five years now

788
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 3: that you're sort of talk into YouTube, what are things

789
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 3: that positive, negative, indifferent?

790
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: There's a whole pandemic somewhere in the middle.

791
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: Somewhere in there. Yeah. Well, I mean I did have

792
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 4: this like very big, sort of life changing experience in

793
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 4: therapy where I really shifted my focus on myself and

794
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 4: like what do I want or need and my happiness,

795
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 4: which is just a thing I never did before, which

796
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 4: has changed my life in a lot of ways. And

797
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 4: now I'm in a place where I can look back

798
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: on this time, like the last like ten twelve years

799
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: and see it very differently and look at it through

800
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 4: a lens of just like like I don't know, I

801
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 4: think I was just so hard on myself for so long,

802
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: so much pressure for so long. I can look back

803
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 4: now and be like, of course you felt these things.

804
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 4: Like it's I feel like I'm in a place where

805
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: it's kind of like healing to look back and think

806
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: about more than like frustrating and like what was I

807
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 4: doing and why didn't I take these opportunities and having

808
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 4: all these regrets and whatever. Now it's just like, oh, yeah,

809
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 4: that makes sense. This was a crazy thing that I

810
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: went through. If that makes sense, Yeah, my life looks

811
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: pretty different. I don't know. I mean, I haven't talked

812
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 4: about this publicly. I did go through a breakup with

813
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 4: someone I was with for ten years, so a big shift,

814
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: and like just like learning life alone kind of getting

815
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: to know myself in a different way the last few years. Yeah,

816
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 4: it's hard because I feel like life feels so different,

817
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 4: but there's not a whole lot of like concrete things

818
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 4: I can point to, figuring out my mental health, my medication,

819
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 4: getting my mind right. I feel like I've grown up

820
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: a lot in the last five years, but also I

821
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 4: feel like that it flew by so quickly, and I'm like, oh,

822
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 4: nothing's happened. So I don't know. I somehow feel both

823
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 4: at the same time.

824
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to be the person I was four

825
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: years ago, because then you know what was all the

826
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: pain and frustration of going through whatever you go through

827
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: it four years for it's a weird two hander.

828
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're coming back. It seems like on

829
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: your own terms and at your own pace.

830
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 4: I would love to go back to YouTube. I'm very

831
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 4: cautious and want to do it in like a way

832
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 4: that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think we're

833
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 4: just kind of like I'm going to take it slowly

834
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 4: and see how it feels. But it certainly feels like

835
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 4: I'm approaching it from a very different place. And there

836
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 4: was a time when I felt like I really disappointed

837
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 4: that for a long time, just that man, I had

838
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 4: this like dream I really wanted like I had the

839
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: time to create the creative outlet an audience, and like,

840
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 4: it's it's too bad that I had to give that up.

841
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 4: It's too bad that just like didn't work. And then

842
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 4: for the first time recently, I've been thinking like, well,

843
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 4: like do I have to like maybe I go back now,

844
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 4: and maybe that just looks drastically different. So yeah, I

845
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 4: don't know what's going to happen, but I do feel

846
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 4: I have a little more control over it than I

847
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 4: felt like I had for a really long time. I

848
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: think that I think it's just like a crazy like

849
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 4: and I've been thinking about this when people ask me

850
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 4: about the Hawk Tour Girls specifically, I saw an interview

851
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 4: with her where she talked about like she was talking

852
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 4: about her experience since that video and like it was

853
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 4: a couple of days after and she's like, oh, I

854
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 4: didn't have management yet, said it so casually, like, of course,

855
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 4: that's what you do when you go viral. And I

856
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 4: feel like now it's a different experience. And honestly, I

857
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 4: think going viral in twenty twenty four is not something

858
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 4: I would be able to handle. It was hard enough

859
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 4: ten years ago, but now, I don't know, I feel

860
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 4: like it's so many more eyes, it's so many more

861
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 4: like expectations. But when she said that, I was just like, oh,

862
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 4: this is just a given, Like you go viral and

863
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 4: boom at your job, and like this is your life,

864
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 4: and like now you have management. It's just it's I mean,

865
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think it's a lot to handle

866
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 4: at any time. But all that to say, I just

867
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 4: think it's a really different experience now versus then, And

868
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 4: it just seems like a lot now.

869
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: Alinda, thank you so much for joining us and being

870
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: so candid. I really appreciate it.

871
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 4: Of course, thank you, thank you so much. This is

872
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 4: a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot.

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00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to Lena for her time and

874
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 3: her vulnerability. And you can follow her at the links

875
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 3: in the description. Whatever she decides to do. I so

876
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: admire that she's doing it on her own terms. I

877
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 3: did this interview about a month ago, and it really

878
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 3: has stuck with me and had me thinking again about

879
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 3: what pressure there is on creators, and that even when

880
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: one is really lucky to be in the position to

881
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 3: work on something that they care about and enjoy full time,

882
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: that the pressure to continue creating at an increasingly fast

883
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 3: rate is unrelenting and painful, no matter how much you

884
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: love what you do or appreciate the people that you

885
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 3: make it for. I've only talked to her this once,

886
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: but I'm genuinely proud of Lena for extracting herself from

887
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: that rat race when she realized how it was affecting

888
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: her health. I think creative burnout and how this kind

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00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 3: of pressure affects one's mental health should be discussed among

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00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 3: people across industries. And while it's a privilege to be

891
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 3: able to afford to step back, I think more people

892
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 3: should do it, take the time to work on themselves

893
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 3: and come back when they're ready. So I thank Lena

894
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 3: for imparting that lesson, and with that, Lena Morris, the

895
00:42:50,360 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: overly attached girlfriend, your sixteenth minute ends now, unless thank

896
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 3: you so much for everyone being here genuinely, it means

897
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: a lot to me. Please like, subscribe, leave a review

898
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 3: for the show. There's a Reddit board that I'm afraid

899
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 3: to check. I'm glad you're here. This is very much

900
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: a labor of love, and here's your moment of fun.

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00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: Sixteenth Minute is a production of fool Zone Media and

902
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: iHeart Labia. It is written, posted, and produced by me

903
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert

904
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 3: Evans be Amazing. Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and

905
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 3: our editor. Our theme song is by Sad thirteen and Pet.

906
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 3: Shout outs to our dog producer Anderson, my cat's fleeing Casper,

907
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: and my pet rock Bird, who will outlive us all Bye.