Speaker 1: All right, so enter Housewives. When I went on Housewives,
Speaker 1: they didn't want me because I had been on a
Speaker 1: reality show before. It wasn't actress era. After me and
Speaker 1: after my success, a different group was attracted of women
Speaker 1: who wanted to use it to promote what they were
Speaker 1: doing and monetize and it was just a different medium.
Speaker 1: And Sarna and the other girl Eileen, and Kyle and
Speaker 1: Garcel and then girls on Atlanta like actresses were now
Speaker 1: on the show. But I don't think any no, I
Speaker 1: know that none of the actresses were as successful as
Speaker 1: you as an actress. Then coming into reality it seemed
Speaker 1: like all the actresses, Okay and Richards, all the actresses
Speaker 1: that came hadn't made it as an actress, so then
Speaker 1: they were coming over to reality TV as their fame
Speaker 1: success vehicle. So you're a different animal in this space
Speaker 1: because you were very successful as an actress and then
Speaker 1: you come into the Housewives, which is a questionable move
Speaker 1: based on that. So what was that decision like and
Speaker 1: what did it around you say, and what was dangled
Speaker 1: in front of you by what I call the realm
Speaker 1: to do it like this had to be an interesting decision.
Speaker 1: Did you feel like you were at some low in
Speaker 1: your career.
Speaker 2: Like no. So Lisa Renna mentioned it to me a
Speaker 2: few years prior to me being on the show, and
Speaker 2: I said, there's no way in how right? And then
Speaker 2: she and I talked and I thought, you know what,
Speaker 2: maybe this could be fun. It's something different, and Lisa
Speaker 2: seems to have a good time on it. And it's
Speaker 2: funny because when I joined the show, I never thought
Speaker 2: of it as work. I thought of it as filming
Speaker 2: moments with I thought was a friend with friends. And
Speaker 2: you know, I thought this could be fun, it's something different.
Speaker 1: I was still like a documentary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just thought, all this could be fun. And
Speaker 2: whatever I didn't I did not. I was not Again,
Speaker 2: I wasn't educated on that show too much either. I
Speaker 2: didn't understand the whole process and everything, which is good
Speaker 2: and bad. I went into it so naively. Even though
Speaker 2: Lisa Renna says that she shared, she shared some stuff,
Speaker 2: but not a lot.
Speaker 1: No, and it couldn't have been a lot of money
Speaker 1: at No.
Speaker 2: No, you don't. You don't do the show for the money.
Speaker 2: On the show, you don't get paid.
Speaker 1: And when you don't start for the money, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, you get yeah, I meant the branding and stuff
Speaker 2: like that that can come when you're on the show.
Speaker 2: But I didn't do it because I couldn't pay the bills.
Speaker 2: I did it because I thought this could be fun
Speaker 2: and different and it's something I haven't done before.
Speaker 1: So, first of all, and in the first you just like,
Speaker 1: just like Kathy Hilton, just like Brandy Glanville, just like
Speaker 1: Liam McSweeney, you came in and had an amazing first season,
Speaker 1: meaning everybody loved you didn't, but that's what happens with
Speaker 1: most of these people. You know, she's cool, she's different,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And then the whole thing the wheels come
Speaker 1: off of bag and there's a crash and burn. And
Speaker 1: I loved how you came in dressing like a normal
Speaker 1: person does when they go on a balcony to somebody
Speaker 1: else's hotel room. And we're in a hotel right now,
Speaker 1: we're like not wearing a ball when I saw you
Speaker 1: in jeans, Yeah, you weren't wearing a ball gown to
Speaker 1: go to someone else's room. And that show of all
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, it's like it's costumes at all times. And
Speaker 1: I saw I thought she looks normal, but you didn't
Speaker 1: look normal within that sphere, and you know, you were
Speaker 1: dressed like a normal person, like it's a reality show
Speaker 1: in theory.
Speaker 2: That's what so yes, So when I met every all
Speaker 2: the producers before I did the show, I went in
Speaker 2: wearing jeans and a Guns and Roses T shirt and
Speaker 2: I I did my hair makeup myself. I didn't have
Speaker 2: a glam team, but I still looked, you know that
Speaker 2: part put together ish. But I I said to them,
Speaker 2: this is who I really am on the red carpet
Speaker 2: and see I can be glammed up if I want to,
Speaker 2: but if you want that, let me know, or do
Speaker 2: you want if you want this? Then they were like,
Speaker 2: we want you to be.
Speaker 1: You well because they and the audience would like want that.
Speaker 1: But the other women crazy.
Speaker 2: And I was. I was surprised by that, like how
Speaker 2: judgmental they were about my horn.
Speaker 1: Throw because that was that was the arc right.
Speaker 2: Before that that I looked like ship.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure, well that was the arc. The Erica
Speaker 1: and Dorrie coming in, the Erica coming in and Dorry
Speaker 1: changing with all the hairstyles was the arc in the
Speaker 1: show where Kyle had different hairstyles. Lisa Wrenne was wearing
Speaker 1: her short haircut and as sheath dress for years until
Speaker 1: until then the costumes and the wigs and the whole
Speaker 1: thing change. And if you look at Bravocon, it's like
Speaker 1: an absolute costume party. It's changed.
Speaker 2: No, it's changed. And you know what, I like watching
Speaker 2: it too, seeing, you know, I loved seeing what outfit
Speaker 2: Deree was going to show up in. I was so
Speaker 2: fascinated that she was like head to toe and all
Speaker 2: that work.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but you didn't want to be part
Speaker 1: of it. But you didn't want to do that yourself because.
Speaker 2: That's not who I am. I wanted I do that
Speaker 2: for an event. That's exactly how I am. Because for me,
Speaker 2: it's work and I'll never forget this. Daurite said to me,
Speaker 2: this is work, and I go, oh, well shit, you're right.
Speaker 2: I didn't think of it that way. I just thought
Speaker 2: of it as me going to dinner or lunch with girlfriends,
Speaker 2: or being in the Bahamas wearing shorts, not going to
Speaker 2: wear a freaking ball gown in the Bahamas. Yeah, at
Speaker 2: a hotel. But she she was right in the sense
Speaker 2: that this is work. So it's whatever image I suppose
Speaker 2: that each women, each woman wants to put out there
Speaker 2: of themselves, you know, how do they want to be perceived?
Speaker 1: But is it reality?
Speaker 2: Apparently not? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, did it feel like it was based on reality?
Speaker 2: Well, for I don't know a lot of them outside
Speaker 2: the show. So for me, I that's why I said
Speaker 2: to the producers I'm involved in the show. I said,
Speaker 2: I could be myself or I could be the actress
Speaker 2: Denise Richards coming on and be glammed up the whole
Speaker 2: time and treat it as if I'm filming a scripted
Speaker 2: show playing a part. Wow, what I mean?
Speaker 1: No, I totally know what you mean. But the thing is,
Speaker 1: how can you not do that when that's the game.
Speaker 1: You can't walk onto the NF fell and decide to
Speaker 1: play pee wee football. So now you're playing this game
Speaker 1: and you're like, wait a second, I came on just
Speaker 1: to play pee wee football, as we're all being real,
Speaker 1: but like, here we are, it's the NFL. So how
Speaker 1: am I not going to raise my game and my
Speaker 1: airs bag right in the front of the camera shot
Speaker 1: and you know, and wear ABCDFG letters everywhere all over
Speaker 1: my body every minute of the Like, how do you
Speaker 1: come in there? Without doing that otherwise.
Speaker 2: That's why I had to I had to make a decision,
Speaker 2: and I said, I want to be myself, and myself
Speaker 2: is I will go to lunch wearing jeans or if
Speaker 2: I'm in the Bahamas, I'm wearing Schwartz. I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: wear a ball gown unless they said wear a ball gown.
Speaker 1: Right. But the next season, it felt like you did
Speaker 1: take it to another level because you seem like you
Speaker 1: felt like the pressure.
Speaker 2: Not really, I still wore my jeans.
Speaker 1: Oh you, I feel like I thought it was a change.
Speaker 2: Actually, Kyle called me a ragamuffin in the second season,
Speaker 2: so oh I still looked like a ragamuffin. But did I.
Speaker 1: That's what's crazy, Like did he Stritrid's bond girl is
Speaker 1: a ragamuffin?
Speaker 2: I remember, I don't know if it aired or not.
Speaker 2: When we were in the second season, we were in
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara, I think, and they were talking about Teddy
Speaker 2: and Kyle were talking about some shit about my clothes,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, so what, like.
Speaker 1: Now, what.
Speaker 2: If I decided to get hair and makeup. I did
Speaker 2: do that a few times when we weren't doing interviews.
Speaker 2: I did get glam I'm like, well, who the fuck
Speaker 2: wouldn't coming to dinner with you guys, Like I don't
Speaker 2: want to look like.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, shit ask Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I have my ship as jeans on, but
Speaker 2: I don't want to have you feel I don't want
Speaker 2: to look at myself on TV and look like a
Speaker 2: piece of shit exactly.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I was like you, I related
Speaker 1: to you because I liked I'm all over I'm all
Speaker 1: over social media looking like a piece of shit every
Speaker 1: day because I look like a piece of shit most days,
Speaker 1: I really do. I look like good when I'm being paid.
Speaker 1: I'm being paid. I'm gonna put some makeup for me.
Speaker 2: It's work. Like my job since I was a teenager
Speaker 2: has been. I can go to set wearing sweats, live
Speaker 2: for it. You have a six am call, and you
Speaker 2: get made up and get your wardrobe, and then when
Speaker 2: I wrap, you know, sixteen hours later, I put my
Speaker 2: sweats and drive home and.
Speaker 1: With the wipe in your hand to get the makeup. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: by the way, that's exactly how I feel. You're damaging.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have to be ridiculous. You're damaging your skin,
Speaker 1: You're damaging your hair? Who wants to do that when
Speaker 1: you don't have to?
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of times I would keep my makeup
Speaker 2: on because I liked it, and I'm like, at least
Speaker 2: I'll show up home looking cute.
Speaker 1: But but I meant my Aaron said, you always look
Speaker 1: I'm getting amazing energy from Eron.
Speaker 2: No, he's such a good.
Speaker 1: Love love er all right, so without So that's why.
Speaker 2: I was like, do I treat this like a job
Speaker 2: or do I treat this like a really reality? And I,
Speaker 2: stupidly I think I guess treated it like reality.
Speaker 1: You would have been better back in the old school.
Speaker 1: Jill zarren Nini Bethany like original things because we were
Speaker 1: all I was wearing my like used sweater and we
Speaker 1: were filming it in my literally at sweater. I bought
Speaker 1: it could signed because I was broke. We were We
Speaker 1: were in my studio Ikia designed department with like a
Speaker 1: homemade set that they did the interviews. It wasn't so
Speaker 1: what it is now, and I like that sloppiness. It
Speaker 1: was what it was. It was real. We were real
Speaker 1: people having real conversations and.
Speaker 2: Real comfortable and I also and that's and I wanted
Speaker 2: to be myself and this was who I was, so
Speaker 2: that's why I chose to just do that. Now. I
Speaker 2: did do glam More my second season, but I didn't
Speaker 2: dress in ball gowns.
Speaker 1: So was the whole experience? Did it hurt or help
Speaker 1: your acting career?
Speaker 2: It didn't hurt my acting career, and I wasn't sure
Speaker 2: how it would go, but it definitely amazing. Did so
Speaker 2: going back to when I first signed on, did everyone
Speaker 2: want me to do it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Some of my reps were like, absolutely not, and I said,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm gonna do it anyway. Fuck it,
Speaker 2: it's and if it goes bad, then I'll take responsibility
Speaker 2: for it. But because I also do think our business
Speaker 2: is changing obviously. I mean, look at sometimes people are
Speaker 2: hired for acting jobs based off of how many followers
Speaker 2: they have on Instagram. So you have to also change
Speaker 2: with the times too, if you want to stay relevant
Speaker 2: and continue working. You know, I'm not believe it or not,
Speaker 2: I'm not my twenties anymore, so I you know, have
Speaker 2: to keep working.
Speaker 1: So it was a choice. It was like I got
Speaker 1: pigot choice.
Speaker 2: I thought this could be fun, It's something different. I've
Speaker 2: never done a show like this, before, and Lisa Renna
Speaker 2: had talked so highly about it and wonderful oppera tunities
Speaker 2: that she had from it. So that's why I thought,
Speaker 2: why not Ultimately was it a good or bad experience?
Speaker 2: It was ultimately a good experience. I actually have a
Speaker 2: lot of fond memories. I have some rotten ones too,
Speaker 2: but I have a lot of fond memories being on
Speaker 2: that show.
Speaker 1: So do you think that it's possible to sustain relationships
Speaker 1: on that show?
Speaker 2: Friendships or relationship any like?
Speaker 1: If you and Aaron were on that show for the
Speaker 1: next ten years, would it be difficult?
Speaker 2: I think if a couple gets divorced, I think they
Speaker 2: would have gotten divorced, regardless of being on reality show
Speaker 2: or not. I think being on a reality show, though,
Speaker 2: does highlight certain things, and maybe watching it you could
Speaker 2: see yourself differently and be like, well, crap, I didn't
Speaker 2: know I acted like that, or I didn't know he
Speaker 2: or she acted like that. So I think that it
Speaker 2: could highlight certain things. I do think there is pressure
Speaker 2: from being you know, especially because I am an actress
Speaker 2: and I have been in the public for so long.
Speaker 2: I think some couples it's different for them because that's.
Speaker 1: New new territory.
Speaker 2: They become famous when they start doing the show. That
Speaker 2: makes sense, and it's sometimes that's hard to navigate.
Speaker 1: And what about its effect on kids? What about your
Speaker 1: kids being on the same thing because they've grown up
Speaker 1: in the machine.
Speaker 2: My kids, they've grown up with, you know, God, very differently. Now.
Speaker 2: Like I said, if if a family comes on these
Speaker 2: shows and they've never experienced anything like that, that's where
Speaker 2: I think it could be a little difficult to try
Speaker 2: to navigate the challenges that come with people saying things
Speaker 2: about you all of a sudden, article are written positive
Speaker 2: and negative things that are said about your kids, or
Speaker 2: your husband or your wife, or your job or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's starring up the pot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's just being all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you go from not being famous to being people knowing
Speaker 2: who the hell you are, and that's and having there's
Speaker 2: good things with that, and there's negative things with that too.
Speaker 1: And about the friendships you used to be friends with
Speaker 1: Lisa Rinna, I think you used to be friends with that.
Speaker 2: We would still be friends, Brenna and I if we
Speaker 2: weren't on the show, so I believe.
Speaker 1: But that's interesting because you think that if a marriage
Speaker 1: would have broken up, it would have broken up anyway.
Speaker 1: So doesn't that mean that your friendship would have also
Speaker 1: broken up?
Speaker 2: Because I think that you learn a lot about people
Speaker 2: when you live with them, travel or work with them.
Speaker 2: I hadn't never worked with Renna before. Okay, so we
Speaker 2: worked on the same movie ironically my ex husband was
Speaker 2: in it, but we didn't have a scene together. And
Speaker 2: I didn't work with her even if.
Speaker 1: But I'm at least not in the machine also, and
Speaker 1: I really connected with her and I really liked her.
Speaker 1: And I think that the reality television space, or this
Speaker 1: particular medium, it does crazy things to certain people. Some
Speaker 1: people become a different person. And I see a difference
Speaker 1: even in Lisa Rinnan. Now after being off the show,
Speaker 1: there's a desperation that has calmed down, Like she's doing
Speaker 1: a lot of fashion and it seems like she likes it.
Speaker 1: And you're allowed to change and you're allowed to be
Speaker 1: incial your daughters or models. But it felt like while
Speaker 1: she was on the house was it was constant. She
Speaker 1: was like addicted to she was definitely to something, to
Speaker 1: messaging it to doing something. She seems different now to
Speaker 1: me and before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I sorry, I take that as far as
Speaker 2: for me personally. Would I think Aaron and I would
Speaker 2: be married if we were on the show ten years
Speaker 2: Absolutely do. I think the show itself, that environment could
Speaker 2: change people if you allow it.
Speaker 1: Got it.
Speaker 2: So I do think that. You know, Lisa Renna didn't
Speaker 2: have people kne who she was, but she didn't have
Speaker 2: the fame she has now from that show.
Speaker 1: No, That's why I was saying, you're a different type
Speaker 1: of actress. You had massive fame before and you still are.
Speaker 1: Denise Richards, Lisa Kyle, they didn't have that kind of
Speaker 1: fame in that Hollywood entertainment sphere that they do now.
Speaker 1: And I I and like I said, I've always liked
Speaker 1: Lisa Renna and I think she's I think fame in
Speaker 1: this way, in that bubble can make you crazy because
Speaker 1: you think you've seen fame overall. I think when you
Speaker 1: have it here, you think everybody is talking about this thing.
Speaker 1: My pup, Joe Joe Fritzo, our publicist, will say to me,
Speaker 1: you know, understand, like this is one little world. There's
Speaker 1: a whole world.
Speaker 2: Out there, and thank God for her for us with that.
Speaker 1: Right, She's like nobody knows what's going on about this?
Speaker 1: Like only you, I've had things happening inside of Instagram
Speaker 1: or TikTok, and I've thought it was real. And then
Speaker 1: I'm talking to someone I'm selling a book to, like
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Or housewives stuff? We think
Speaker 1: that this thing that's in this article. And Lisa was very,
Speaker 1: very in tune with the machine. So anyway, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You guys aren't friends now.
Speaker 2: But oh I will never be friends with her?
Speaker 1: Okay? And what about and you'd never be friends with
Speaker 1: Brandy too?
Speaker 2: I was never friends with Brandy. I met her twice.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, got it? So okay?
Speaker 2: Because I was never friends with her?
Speaker 1: What you were never friends with Brandy? And it's funny
Speaker 1: because it seemed on the show like that was such
Speaker 1: a big deal to you. You seemed really stressed about it,
Speaker 1: and now it seems like it wasn't a big Why
Speaker 1: did you take the bait? Why didn't you just feel like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Who cares you? Well?
Speaker 2: You never know what airs.
Speaker 1: Right? But why would you just not take the bait?
Speaker 1: Because I took the bait? Like meaning, why would you
Speaker 1: just be like, okay, yeah, that all happened no problem.
Speaker 1: Who cares? You know what I'm saying, Like on reality,
Speaker 1: if you go into it and you talk about it,
Speaker 1: do you seem like you care about it?
Speaker 2: But I was so when I said Bravo, Bravo whatever,
Speaker 2: I was referring to something else with my daughter. Oh,
Speaker 2: and I felt like, oh, here we go another dinner
Speaker 2: where they're gonna come at me. I blurted something out.
Speaker 2: That's why I said Bravo, Bravo. And I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: you guys, I know you're going to come at me
Speaker 2: for whatever. It was like every dinner that season that
Speaker 2: they had something that I did wrong. I said, you
Speaker 2: guys got to give me a second. So that's what
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: Your daughter, Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2: And so I I said something I shouldn't have, something
Speaker 2: very personal, And so then I took a breath and
Speaker 2: it was like then you know they said all that,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, for a.
Speaker 1: Fox's sake, why do you think they didn't include the
Speaker 1: personal thing? You said? Why did they take that out?
Speaker 1: Relevant to the story?
Speaker 2: Not relevant? I'm actually grateful that Bravo didn't. Okay, it
Speaker 2: was had nothing to do with anything. It was. I
Speaker 2: don't even want to get.
Speaker 1: Into this show. I just wanted to get some context.
Speaker 2: Rinna Garcel. I was friends with her before the show.
Speaker 2: I will continue to be friends with her. I love her.
Speaker 1: She seems great.
Speaker 2: Sutton I became friends with after the show.
Speaker 1: But you just went back and did a guest spot.
Speaker 1: And I said to Jill, I called, You'll, like, why
Speaker 1: is she doing that? Because you're not being paid for
Speaker 1: the whole season, yet they market it as if you
Speaker 1: came back. It looks like you came back the way
Speaker 1: that they manipulate with the marketing. So I was like,
Speaker 1: why would she do that because I paid you something tiny.
Speaker 2: I showed up to go to Garceal's screening and I
Speaker 2: didn't tell anyone I was going okay and except Garcel
Speaker 2: and I just showed up. And so that's how that happened.
Speaker 2: They didn't I didn't ask to be paid to go
Speaker 2: to her screening. I didn't expect it. I was truly
Speaker 2: going to support her and they were filming it, and
Speaker 2: so after I went to the screening, they asked. She
Speaker 2: called me the next day and asked me if I
Speaker 2: would ever come do anything, and I said, if it's
Speaker 2: with you, I would do it. And so then I
Speaker 2: did a couple lunches and then at dinner, and that
Speaker 2: was you know, it's been a big deal.
Speaker 1: No, but it's being marketed as if you're part of
Speaker 1: the cast. To me, what watching the promos but you
Speaker 1: don't care about.
Speaker 2: That, Mike whatever, Okay, I don't care, really don't.
Speaker 1: So you go back again.
Speaker 2: It depends on yeah. I mean I honestly my experience,
Speaker 2: I did have a shitty experience with which I a
Speaker 2: lot of it had. I hate saying this about but
Speaker 2: it wasn't good with Lisa Renna, and it was sad
Speaker 2: to me. I had a twenty year friendship with her
Speaker 2: and to see how she could sacrifice a friendship of
Speaker 2: twenty years for a show and that isn't going to
Speaker 2: last forever. Obviously she's not on it anymore. That like,
Speaker 2: at what cost? You know, I didn't see.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what you're talking about, but I
Speaker 1: will tell you that people get programmed in a way
Speaker 1: that they're in it for so long and they can't
Speaker 1: see what's real and what's not. And your job on
Speaker 1: that show, you are only there for.
Speaker 2: A little two seasons, right, Your.
Speaker 1: Job on that show is for every single thing to
Speaker 1: come into the show, even if it's your sister, your mother.
Speaker 1: That's why I.
Speaker 2: Don't understand that. The thing of it is, I think
Speaker 2: it's okay for women to get along. It's okay to
Speaker 2: watch us have fun. It's okay to have an escape
Speaker 2: and watch the show and see like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: a bunch of women at our ages to have a
Speaker 2: good time outside of husbands and kids to you know,
Speaker 2: when do you go on a girls trip at I
Speaker 2: haven't been on one since I was like in my
Speaker 2: twenties with a group of girls, and so to see
Speaker 2: a group of women to be able to have fun
Speaker 2: in this, But then I think sometimes things get taken
Speaker 2: too far.
Speaker 1: The thing is, it's because you and Kathy are examples
Speaker 1: of people that came in for the same reason, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm a Hilton, but it's okay, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be fun. We're gonna have fun. And Nikki and Paris
Speaker 1: are like, what is she doing? And we're gonna have fun.
Speaker 1: And it takes probably three seasons, I would say that
Speaker 1: to get war like a worn and leather suitcase, where
Speaker 1: now you're like the new car smell is off. It's
Speaker 1: game time. You can't just be the fun new one.
Speaker 1: You don't have the new car smell, and you've got
Speaker 1: to like it's game time. You have to kill or
Speaker 1: be killed.
Speaker 2: But that's what I don't understand, Like why do you
Speaker 2: have to try to destroy people's lives and try to,
Speaker 2: you know, find the worst dirt on people or.
Speaker 1: It's the name of that game, it's the name.
Speaker 2: Where I think that you could still watch name who's.
Speaker 1: On these shows that does a good job of floating
Speaker 1: in the middle. That's not just a friend.
Speaker 2: About floating in the middle. I mean, you could obviously
Speaker 2: have bad shit happened to you, but when there's.
Speaker 1: No I don't mean you to do somebody, but I mean.
Speaker 2: But you don't have to go out of your way
Speaker 2: to do something bad to someone just to.
Speaker 1: I don't know, to create a history. I don't remember
Speaker 1: the exactly it was a while back, and so of anyone.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying in general, like a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of the shows are people.
Speaker 1: This is happening to Lisa, this thing is happening, this
Speaker 1: crazy thing. You're supposed to put it into the middle
Speaker 1: because that's the name of that game, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That's happened with literally sisters, Kim, Kyle, Kathy. They throw
Speaker 1: it in the middle because producers are in your ears
Speaker 1: saying like, we have to talk about this. These other
Speaker 1: people know this like it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 1: mental game, like you gotta you know, it's just a
Speaker 1: way that it goes.
Speaker 2: But if that's why it's no, I know, and that's
Speaker 2: probably why I you know, it's for me left. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for me, it was if someone were to come up
Speaker 2: to me and say, we need you to bring this up.
Speaker 2: If it was something I'm just hearing it for the
Speaker 2: first time off camera, I'm not going to bring it up.
Speaker 2: It's my place to say it. Else do it.
Speaker 1: That's you're good.
Speaker 2: Why would I do that? Yeah, you know, if they
Speaker 2: bring it up and we talk about it, great, that's
Speaker 2: the thing. If you get six to eight women together
Speaker 2: and just let the women talk, you will get the
Speaker 2: drama naturally.
Speaker 1: No, I that's but I think that would be good producing.
Speaker 1: I think the low hanging fruit is taken over and
Speaker 1: just do the thing that's going to be the most
Speaker 1: salacious and talk about someone's infidelity, talk about someone's you know,
Speaker 1: child that is not out of a closet yet, or
Speaker 1: just like things that cross the line. But anyway, I'm
Speaker 1: just was curious about your experience, which I'm so happy.
Speaker 2: I did have a good experience to hear, but why
Speaker 2: did you have? But I also had a negative experience
Speaker 2: because I didn't know. My experience with Lisa Renna was
Speaker 2: so bad that I thought, Okay, what would happen next season?
Speaker 1: So why don't you go back now? Why don't you
Speaker 1: go back now that she's gone?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. We'll see whatever happens.
Speaker 1: Oh, they might ask you about it.
Speaker 2: Interesting. I don't know if they'll ask me back. I
Speaker 2: just did a few little episodes.
Speaker 1: I bet you they didn't even know that you were
Speaker 1: interested in possibly going back.
Speaker 2: You know what, I didn't call to say, hey, can
Speaker 2: I come back?
Speaker 1: No, I would have to come to you.
Speaker 2: But I mean, like, but even and I have no
Speaker 2: ego either, I would.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if the ultimate irony of all of all time
Speaker 1: will be what that I brokeer the deal to get
Speaker 1: you back on the Housewife, that would be the ultimate irony.
Speaker 1: But Bethany, well, this isn't this is awkward. This is awkward.
Speaker 1: Bethany Uh suggested that we take Denny's back. We think
Speaker 1: it's a great idea. Send my commission check via Jill Fritzo.
Speaker 2: Okay, after though my second season, I also because I
Speaker 2: wanted it to be real, thought how would this make sense?
Speaker 2: If all the women fucking hate me? How how would I.
Speaker 1: Do they hate you?
Speaker 2: Well almost everyone did, except for Garcel and Sutton, but
Speaker 2: everyone else was such an asshole to me that I thought,
Speaker 2: well that, how would it make sense for me to
Speaker 2: go back? If?
Speaker 1: If it's not it makes sense Garcel would go for some reason.
Speaker 2: See that's where I'm you learn the process of what
Speaker 2: the show leads and why I didn't think of it
Speaker 2: as like a real job, which I should have, you know.
Speaker 2: I just thought, Oh, we're just filming fun stuff or
Speaker 2: or even you know, stuff that is dramatic or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, that's fine too, I don't. I don't care
Speaker 2: if like that stuff comes up. It's more about trying
Speaker 2: to pile on someone and take someone down, yeah, just
Speaker 2: to deflect from what's going on in their life.
Speaker 1: Well there could it seem like you took some hits
Speaker 1: for sure with the Bravo Bravo Bravo.
Speaker 2: So I'm oh that too. Those women they know, so
Speaker 2: they fucked how on. How would I know about it?
Speaker 2: They're the ones that told me to do that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, that they break the fourth wall. Now,
Speaker 1: they used to know. There was a scene with Kelly
Speaker 1: ben Simone where she kept going Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
Speaker 1: the producer's name, because she wanted the scene to stop.
Speaker 1: But they didn't air that because they used to not
Speaker 1: break the fourth wall. They would never let the viewer
Speaker 1: know that there's a camera p Yeah, I know. I
Speaker 1: was told that your scene was one of the first
Speaker 1: breaking of the fourth wall.
Speaker 2: Most women were wonderful at setting me up.
Speaker 1: That was that was the breaking of the fourth wall
Speaker 1: for the first time that I saw. And then the
Speaker 1: question is, what do you think? Do you know about
Speaker 1: this thing that I've been doing, this reality reckoning that I.
Speaker 2: I I don't know. I've heard bits and pieces.
Speaker 1: It's just about that there is.
Speaker 2: I read the Vanity Fair article though before I got here.
Speaker 1: Oh what did you think of that? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not my article, it's not even I'm not.
Speaker 2: Sing anyone surprised by it. You were, Yeah, only because
Speaker 2: I didn't understand the article.
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 2: I didn't think there I'm just going to be brutally honest.
Speaker 2: I didn't think there was new information. I didn't know
Speaker 2: what the point of view of the article was because
Speaker 2: leading out to it, I did see stuff on social
Speaker 2: media that this big article was going to come out,
Speaker 2: and then when I read it, I was quite surprised
Speaker 2: by it.
Speaker 1: But Vanity Fair knows they left a lot of crumbs
Speaker 1: on the floor.
Speaker 2: Everyone could have gotten suit.
Speaker 1: It has to do with lawsuits, but I think it
Speaker 1: also has to do with Vanity Fair is owned by
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, who owns Shed Media, the company that was
Speaker 1: being talked about in the article, Shed Media New York Housewives,
Speaker 1: Shed Media, and Warner Brothers own Shed and Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: owns Vanity Fair. Well, then why did the article get started?
Speaker 1: I don't know. The reality reckoning is basically about exploitation,
Speaker 1: meaning your relationship, your Bravo, Bravo, your situation, Brandy, exploitation,
Speaker 1: the things that you risk and being in a show
Speaker 1: like that versus scripted and not being compensated, so not
Speaker 1: being really well compensated and no residuals. And it's funny
Speaker 1: because I've taken heat, and first of all, I'm totally
Speaker 1: right because brav has made many changes now with psychologists
Speaker 1: and with drinking policies, and some of the diehard fans
Speaker 1: are saying you bit the hand that fed you. I'm
Speaker 1: saying something that's right, And if I wasn't right, Bravo
Speaker 1: wouldn't be changing their policies, and other streamers that are
Speaker 1: multi billion dollars wouldn't be scrambling to come to me
Speaker 1: to ask me how they could possibly change or what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. So it became bigger and I wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: looking for this job, but I'm not going to abandon
Speaker 1: all these people that I said something like, you're the
Speaker 1: only one who can help us. You're the only one
Speaker 1: who can do this. So it became bigger than I intended.
Speaker 1: To be honest with.
Speaker 2: You, Well, it's very brave of you to do.
Speaker 1: This, I guess it is.
Speaker 2: It seems like it is. You know, that's a lot
Speaker 2: for you to take on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because people suing will likely receive settlements and money,
Speaker 1: and the class action will be money. But I'm not
Speaker 1: one of these people. I'm not being paid by any
Speaker 1: of this. I've only taken hits from it. But it
Speaker 1: doesn't or what's important is important and I set it
Speaker 1: and I backed it up. And all these women that
Speaker 1: I asked you those some of those questions, because some
Speaker 1: of these women that I thought were train wrecks on
Speaker 1: television actually seem to be nice people that are raising
Speaker 1: children that were played a role in that machine. They
Speaker 1: played a role there. You know, they walked in vulnerable,
Speaker 1: whether you like her or not. Like different people have
Speaker 1: walked into that whether you like them or not. Some
Speaker 1: of these people have walked into that franchise wounded birds
Speaker 1: absolutely to play the wounded bird role. They were divorced,
Speaker 1: they were cheated on, they were broke, and I think
Speaker 1: that they weren't in the same position as I was
Speaker 1: once I made money where I could walk out anytime.
Speaker 2: They feel desperate that they have to be exactly.
Speaker 1: You walked out. That's why you don't you feel like
Speaker 1: you walked out. You can walk back in. It's your choice.
Speaker 1: You don't need it, right, many women feel like they
Speaker 1: needed and now it's the only place they can.
Speaker 2: Go exactly to make money. No, I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, and having daughters, I'm sure you get that.
Speaker 1: So what now what about being older vanity marriage? Like,
Speaker 1: what is your life like now? And what's your sort
Speaker 1: of what is your next.
Speaker 2: My life is great. I happily married. I love my husband.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that I met him, and we are
Speaker 2: so he's he's my best friend and so connected and
Speaker 2: we're you know, I'm happy. My older girls are you know,
Speaker 2: it's going into that chapter where the older girls are,
Speaker 2: you know, starting to form their young adult life.
Speaker 1: And Aaron's close with the girls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's close with the girls. And you know we
Speaker 2: have Eloise, she's twelve, so you know, things are things
Speaker 2: are good.
Speaker 1: And Aaron didn't have kids coming into me and does
Speaker 1: he want did he want?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Elouise is now his kid.
Speaker 1: Feel you feel like this is your family.
Speaker 2: And you yeah, this is your family. Yeah, No, it's good.
Speaker 2: I'm the type that likes to take That's why I also,
Speaker 2: this job that I have is great. I was never
Speaker 2: you know, had to know exactly where I need to be.
Speaker 2: And I love the excitement of not knowing what job
Speaker 2: I'm going to be doing, not knowing where I'm going
Speaker 2: to film, not knowing who I'm going to be working with.
Speaker 2: I like that about my career and I love that
Speaker 2: part about my job. So I like to be able to,
Speaker 2: you know, do different things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I had insight into you because I
Speaker 1: the woman who produces the show Amy Sugarman. She said,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk to Denise, but I think
Speaker 1: you're going to have to fly there because I don't
Speaker 1: think she's going to fly in here. And I said,
Speaker 1: because I had stuff going on right now and I
Speaker 1: was going to fly in, but it was going to
Speaker 1: be a month. You guys had said you could come
Speaker 1: in November, so I said to I called Jill Fritzo
Speaker 1: and I said, Jill's like famous now she.
Speaker 2: Hates so you don't just say Jill.
Speaker 1: I called you because literally Paul, my fiance, is like
Speaker 1: so j so so Jill Fritzo. I called her and
Speaker 1: I said, I have this feeling Denise and her husband
Speaker 1: like they'd want to take a staycation in New York.
Speaker 1: Like I just feel like they would come and be like,
Speaker 1: let's put them in a nice hotel and like it
Speaker 1: might be an experienced because I heart was like, I
Speaker 1: don't think they're going to want to travel, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I beectually she wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Want so why would they say that they don't know?
Speaker 1: I know. I just had a feeling like I'm the
Speaker 1: type of person that once in a while I want
Speaker 1: an excuse to go somewhere. So it's like, you don't
Speaker 1: have to plan it yourself, you don't have to book
Speaker 1: It is here, you know. And so I was right,
Speaker 1: and I'm taking responsibility for the way that gorgeous. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy, I'm really thrilled.