Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, I want to
Speaker 1: go over to John wu. He is the president of
Speaker 1: Ava Labs. We talked to him before about the crypto world,
Speaker 1: and John is great to have you back on this morning. Um,
Speaker 1: we were almost caught off guard by a p d
Speaker 1: o C headline saying that all bitcoin, all crypto transactions
Speaker 1: in China will henceforth be considered illegal. What exactly does
Speaker 1: that mean? Everything having to do with crypto except for
Speaker 1: just holding it is against the law, Hi, Paulhaim Matt.
Speaker 1: So it is not clear how they define transactions, and
Speaker 1: a lot of this is actually left as a signal
Speaker 1: so that people realize that they don't like this stuff
Speaker 1: and that you should be wary as opposed to having
Speaker 1: specifics out. But really this is nothing new from what
Speaker 1: they've been doing all year in terms of what they
Speaker 1: were doing with technology and um what they've done in
Speaker 1: crypto Basically in thirteen they restricted banks from handling bitcoin,
Speaker 1: seventeen they banned exchanges. Nineteen and twenty they were even
Speaker 1: the same thing to bitcoin mining. What they are against
Speaker 1: is basically losing control of their monetary system and worried
Speaker 1: about capital flight. All right, John, how should we really
Speaker 1: step back and think about this here? Uh? Anytime China,
Speaker 1: you know, makes a move, it has global repercussions. What
Speaker 1: do you think I know we have a lot of
Speaker 1: time to really ponder this, but what do you think
Speaker 1: this means for just the crypto space in general? If
Speaker 1: China is going to be perhaps way more restricted than
Speaker 1: we thought, there's a lot of resilience in the crypto space.
Speaker 1: When they were banning China was banning mining UM in
Speaker 1: nineteen and two thousand twenty, their mining in China was
Speaker 1: about seventy s the global mining for bitcoin it is
Speaker 1: down to but nothing is slowed down because a lot
Speaker 1: of that is now in West Texas. So the US
Speaker 1: we have benefited from some of their authoritative actions, if
Speaker 1: you will, and even locally, individual China nationalists have found
Speaker 1: ways to ultimately be involved in the space whether as
Speaker 1: a developer or as an investor in various uh you
Speaker 1: know tokens. They've all of every resilient users and developers
Speaker 1: and miners ultimately find some way to do it properly
Speaker 1: and hopefully we in the US can continue to benefit
Speaker 1: from their harsh rules. What is the problem? I mean,
Speaker 1: are they concerned that too many people are going to
Speaker 1: speculate and may um, you know, lose their savings. Are
Speaker 1: the concerned that wealthy people are going to use crypto
Speaker 1: to move assets out of the country. Why is China
Speaker 1: so veriantly anti anti bitcoin, anti crypto? So that's the
Speaker 1: last point is correct in my opinion, they're worried about
Speaker 1: capital flight. Don't forget they actually love the technology there.
Speaker 1: I mean, people forget there is a Chinese central bank
Speaker 1: back digital you want that, There are CBD you know wallets,
Speaker 1: central bank wallets that they have air drop and distributed
Speaker 1: the digital you want to individuals. They love the technology.
Speaker 1: They are just against loose and control of the monitoring
Speaker 1: system and giving up too much freedom. Well, I mean, Johnny,
Speaker 1: are you should chinying to be concerned that they will
Speaker 1: lose their ability if they're not really part of the
Speaker 1: crypto market, they might lose their positioning in there. They
Speaker 1: should and we should, um. And this is why you know,
Speaker 1: decentralization is so powerful in this world of blockchain and crypto. Investors, developers,
Speaker 1: users are all able to find a way to continue
Speaker 1: to grow the ecosystem and the ecosystems at the point
Speaker 1: now where it's not just about capital in the sense
Speaker 1: of bitcoin, the way China is looking at bitcoin and
Speaker 1: as a possible digital flight mechanism or store value or
Speaker 1: medium exchange. There's actually real utility now, utility in terms
Speaker 1: of a decentralized finance system. I've been on talking to
Speaker 1: you guys about n f t s and it's utilization
Speaker 1: of not just cryptal native people, but also traditional people, artists, entertainers,
Speaker 1: and financial services professionals. Interesting, all right, John, It was
Speaker 1: great to get you on. Here are lots of news
Speaker 1: shaping this space right now. John Wu, President of Ava
Speaker 1: Labs based in New York. We have been talking a
Speaker 1: little bit about the infrastructure build, the possibility that that
Speaker 1: gets past or maybe watered down a little bit. Let's
Speaker 1: bring in someone who um relies on knowledge of this
Speaker 1: for his living. Josh Diets, a senior portfolio manager over
Speaker 1: at Aberdeen Standard Investments and he is specifically the manager
Speaker 1: of the Aberdeen Standard Global Infrastructure Income Fund. So, Josh,
Speaker 1: what do you know about where we stand in regards
Speaker 1: to Biden's spending plans. It seems like right now, um,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of discussions take place next week
Speaker 1: on it, and they're trying to group the three point
Speaker 1: five trillion new plan with the one point to trillion
Speaker 1: true infrastructure plan. Now, we view at one point two
Speaker 1: trillion as a true infrastructure plan with spending on important
Speaker 1: infrastructure assets for the future, such as the power grid
Speaker 1: for broadband. The three point five trillion we don't really
Speaker 1: view as infrastructure, and that's really to me much more
Speaker 1: uh typical on spending package. Right then infrastructure? All right,
Speaker 1: josh I, I personally went down to d C and
Speaker 1: made my pitch for the gateway plan that is so
Speaker 1: critical for the metro New York area. So beside the gateway,
Speaker 1: what are some of the interesting areas you're looking at
Speaker 1: in this bill? Again, it's the new tunnel underneath the
Speaker 1: Hudson River to replace the one year old railway tunnels
Speaker 1: for Amtrak and New Jersey Transit. You know, like people
Speaker 1: a day and go through. So they built like three
Speaker 1: in the last hundred years, don't I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's New Jersey, New York. That's all you
Speaker 1: need to know. So, um, Josh, So beside my beloved gateway,
Speaker 1: what else is in this bill that you're focusing on?
Speaker 1: So there's two areas that we think are prying for
Speaker 1: growth and are happening with or without the bill, but
Speaker 1: it's just really a catalyst. On one is a sixty
Speaker 1: billion dollars for the power grid, and that we need
Speaker 1: an updated power grid because of all the renewable energy
Speaker 1: we're starting to produce here in the United States. Last year,
Speaker 1: for example, we spent about twenty five billion dollars just
Speaker 1: on wind alone. Solar makes up about three of our
Speaker 1: US production that could grow at about so we need
Speaker 1: an updated power grid for the transmission lines to transmit
Speaker 1: that energy produced. The other part is for the broadband.
Speaker 1: Were spent about sixty billion dollars extremely important to make
Speaker 1: sure that rural areas, low income communities have access to
Speaker 1: four and then five j So we we really believe
Speaker 1: that's the two areas of growth for infrastructure, one on
Speaker 1: the renewable side and two in towers four five G.
Speaker 1: So who makes money off this or what what are
Speaker 1: you investing in UM? Who do you think the winners
Speaker 1: are going to be? The winners are to be clear
Speaker 1: as day for when we talk about the transformation from
Speaker 1: four to G to five G, we should invest in
Speaker 1: the towers. We've seen percent data growth. It's only going
Speaker 1: to accelerate when we have five G. Just as a
Speaker 1: data point, if we get to autonomous vehicles and they're
Speaker 1: gonna generate as much data per hour as the equivalent
Speaker 1: of an iPhones used over three thousand years. So we
Speaker 1: need UM more dense, more dense towers globally. So we
Speaker 1: like companies like ant here in the U S and
Speaker 1: c c I in Europe. We like companies like some big,
Speaker 1: big beneficiaries going forward up for five G, and we
Speaker 1: think we're in the early stages of that growth. It's
Speaker 1: gonna last a decade or so. In order to identify
Speaker 1: the towers. The other side, as I mentioned on the
Speaker 1: renewable energy, we're spending more and more, not only here
Speaker 1: in the United States but also in Europe. In Europe
Speaker 1: they spend fifty billion dollars on building wind last year.
Speaker 1: That's only going to accelebrate, accelerate. If you look at
Speaker 1: the EU, they proposed a fit for fifty five, which
Speaker 1: basically means that there are two thousand in the emissions
Speaker 1: to arguts are going from. Beneficiaries of that are next
Speaker 1: terror here in the United States, are WU in Europe,
Speaker 1: Email in Europe, so we think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: beneficiaries for that. Matt I worked on those I p
Speaker 1: O s of Crown Castle in American Tower and those
Speaker 1: are which is really awesome. Uh, companies, awesome businesses. Man,
Speaker 1: It's just a nice It's almost like a real estate
Speaker 1: play and the driver is five G and just increasing
Speaker 1: use of data. So how is the sector performed in general? Josh,
Speaker 1: I'm just talking infrastructure. How is your sector over the
Speaker 1: last several years performed. So we have one fund that's
Speaker 1: been around for thirteen years, a s g I, and
Speaker 1: that's performed extremely well, roughly twelve and it returns. Infrastructure
Speaker 1: is fairly wide. So when you ask how the infrastructure
Speaker 1: sector has performed as a fund, it's performed well. There's
Speaker 1: different sectors within infrastructure. There's the communications sector, as we mentioned,
Speaker 1: the towers have done extremely well. Renewable energy plays within
Speaker 1: utilities have done well in the in the transport fector
Speaker 1: that's not done as well because, especially because of COVID,
Speaker 1: when we've seen people not flyings we own airports and
Speaker 1: roads globally, that hasn't performed as well recently. Hey, Josh,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciated great timing
Speaker 1: here with this infrastructure bill winding its way through Congress.
Speaker 1: To kind of get your thoughts here, Josh Deed's senior
Speaker 1: portfolio manager for Aberdeen Standard Investments. He specific portfolio manager
Speaker 1: the Aberdeen Standard Global Infrastructure Income Fund, so he knows
Speaker 1: a thing or two about what's happening there on infrastructure.
Speaker 1: And again, that bill winding its way through Congress, a
Speaker 1: lot of pieces surrounding whether it's gonna be tied to
Speaker 1: the Greater Spending bill uh, and that may slow it down,
Speaker 1: but the expectation is that bill is bipartisan support and
Speaker 1: we'll get through well. The whole concept of a globalization,
Speaker 1: at least my mind, seems to maybe have lost some
Speaker 1: momentum over the last were five years as many countries
Speaker 1: look more inward. Uh. Maybe perhaps led by the United
Speaker 1: States itself. Let's check in with Tracy McMillan, head of
Speaker 1: Global asset Allocation Strategy for the Wells Fargo Investment Institute.
Speaker 1: They've got a new report out that looks at globalization. So, Tracy, again,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just me, but it feels like it's lost
Speaker 1: a little bit of momentum. You know, America first, all
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, lots of nationalism across Europe and
Speaker 1: Brexit Brexit, thank you very much. Uh what do you think, Tracy?
Speaker 1: What did you find? Yes? And thank you for having
Speaker 1: me today. So what we found was that globalization is
Speaker 1: definitely changing, but we don't think that it's ending. You know.
Speaker 1: We we don't think that all production of goods for
Speaker 1: US consumers will return to the United States, and we
Speaker 1: don't think that all good ideas um are located within
Speaker 1: uh certain geographic border. But we do think that countries
Speaker 1: are going to continue to trade and the cost of
Speaker 1: that trade, though, it's going to include more than just
Speaker 1: the pure cost of the goods. So in in other words,
Speaker 1: you know, some of those um, some of those things
Speaker 1: that are blocking globalism, populist sentiment, separatist movements, internet control,
Speaker 1: media censorship, you know, some of the things you're alluding
Speaker 1: to their are are definitely going to add costs to
Speaker 1: globalization as we know it. I mean, the President of
Speaker 1: the United States, Great Britain. These are things that we're
Speaker 1: block globalization as well, right, But now you can add
Speaker 1: supply chain issues. Are aren't more companies trying to bring
Speaker 1: their production home or make it local to where they
Speaker 1: sell their goods? Yeah, you're you're exactly right about that.
Speaker 1: Supply chains are definitely evolving. And you know the admented
Speaker 1: supply chains that we've grown accustomed to, you know, those
Speaker 1: that are across a lot of different low wage producers
Speaker 1: um production centers, those are becoming more concentrated. We think,
Speaker 1: we think they are going to be more high tech
Speaker 1: and more regionalized. And we think a great example of
Speaker 1: that is clothing. So you think about how uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the fibers used to be put together in material and
Speaker 1: a certain group of countries, and then that fabric would
Speaker 1: be sent to China, China would construct the garment, and
Speaker 1: then it would be sent to the United States. And
Speaker 1: so now we think that those supply chains um that
Speaker 1: created vulnerabilities and dependencies are are going to start to
Speaker 1: coalesce around the major consumption centers of the world and
Speaker 1: that's going to be the US and China in India. So, Tracy,
Speaker 1: how much does it's It seems really over the last
Speaker 1: twenty five years that globalization has just been a just
Speaker 1: a given and it's technology. It's just how businesses are evolving,
Speaker 1: are becoming more interconnected. Can that be stopped? I mean,
Speaker 1: it just seems like it's just a natural evolution, even
Speaker 1: if for a period of time the United States doesn't
Speaker 1: want to lead, or even if the UK doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be part of a bigger EU, is it something
Speaker 1: that's just natural? Yeah? So, um, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the things we observed is that trade of goods as
Speaker 1: a percent of global GDP has been falling. So if
Speaker 1: you think about you know, manufactured goods, that's what most
Speaker 1: of us think about when we think about globalization, but
Speaker 1: that has indeed been falling as a percent of GDP
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, and that's as those production
Speaker 1: facilities do start to locate closer to the end market.
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing here is that digital technology are
Speaker 1: spurring future trade growth and that's mostly in services. And
Speaker 1: the services you know, include things um that are you know,
Speaker 1: considered anything as a service, so you know, we're looking
Speaker 1: at things like UH people and companies that purchase capital
Speaker 1: resources and then loan out. The UM productive capacity of
Speaker 1: those UH capital resources. Trade in services is twenty three
Speaker 1: times higher since Steen seventy six, and it's doubling every
Speaker 1: five years. So by some estimates are that services could
Speaker 1: represent fifty per cent of globalized trade. So it's really
Speaker 1: all about digital then, I mean not all, but the
Speaker 1: lion share of what you see as the future of
Speaker 1: globalization depends on the Internet. A lot of it does, yes, UM,
Speaker 1: so it will depend on information technology. We think consumer
Speaker 1: discretionary companies and healthcare companies are also poised well to
Speaker 1: benefit UM from this evolving trend. And we think that
Speaker 1: US companies are poised well to benefit from this UM.
Speaker 1: You know, US companies benefit from UM having different differentiation UM.
Speaker 1: They are also very innovative, and they are prepared for
Speaker 1: a world where we think that there could be big
Speaker 1: shifts and production centers and they'll need to have a
Speaker 1: deeper knowledge of local consumers. So that's where that digitalization
Speaker 1: information that instantaneously crosses borders all come into play. How
Speaker 1: about China, I'm sorry, how about India? Because it seems
Speaker 1: like China perhaps isn't necessarily going to be as welcoming
Speaker 1: as perhaps some business leader's thought over the last decade
Speaker 1: or so. Is India the next big thing? So we
Speaker 1: do think that India is going to play a significant
Speaker 1: role in globalization going forward. They already have a competitive
Speaker 1: advantage and services, whereas you know, China may have that
Speaker 1: competitive vantage in production. We think that India has the
Speaker 1: competitive advantage and services and will continue to have that.
Speaker 1: Um We also think that because the population in India
Speaker 1: is young and growing, and they also have a growing
Speaker 1: middle class, that there are quite a bit uh of
Speaker 1: investment opportunities associated with India. Alright, very cool stuff, really
Speaker 1: cool report. Tracy McMillan, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 1: Tracy McMillan is the head of Global Asset Allocation Strategy
Speaker 1: at the Wells Fargo Investment Institute, and she's talking to
Speaker 1: us about the Investment Institutes Globalization report, which is I mean,
Speaker 1: it's suffered I think to some extent under President Trump
Speaker 1: and and Brexit and the nationalism that we see across Europe.
Speaker 1: But then again, obviously because of the coronavirus pandemic, maybe
Speaker 1: even worse because of the supply chains that were tripped
Speaker 1: up amidst lockdowns globally. This is Bloomberg. Kind of a
Speaker 1: mixed morning here, but coming off of some of those
Speaker 1: early trading session lows, let's get a sense of where
Speaker 1: we are here when this market tremendous amount of volatility
Speaker 1: this week. Welcome Dave Harden. He's a CEO and chief
Speaker 1: investment officer of Summit Global Investments. They have approximately one
Speaker 1: point eight billion dollars in assets under management, So Dave,
Speaker 1: kind of a wild week here. We started off with
Speaker 1: a big, big sell off, maybe a little contagion coming
Speaker 1: out of China some of those fears. But boy, this
Speaker 1: market has bounced back and the by the dip folks
Speaker 1: seem to have won the day. What do you make
Speaker 1: of this week in this market? Well, thanks for having me,
Speaker 1: glad to be here, and it has been a very
Speaker 1: volatile week, right, and I think the volatility continues, and
Speaker 1: so yes, by the dip one. But the story is
Speaker 1: not written yet. It's we're not over yet, and you
Speaker 1: saw the wall of worry just getting higher now with
Speaker 1: China and the crackdown in crypto. Um, I don't think
Speaker 1: the evergreendly is over yet. The technically, conditions are extremely
Speaker 1: high right now, um, and so I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot more volatility to come. So if you're holding a
Speaker 1: stock and it's not where you wanted to have it,
Speaker 1: just wait a little while a might get there right
Speaker 1: total um, which is by the way, I guess in China,
Speaker 1: if you're holding bigcoin, that's your only choice right now
Speaker 1: because you can't make any transactions in terms of the
Speaker 1: evergrand issue. What are your big concerns? Well, contagious going
Speaker 1: to HSBC, going to other stocks that have the exposure
Speaker 1: over into China. Um, you know, nights down today, but
Speaker 1: it's really not the same situation. It's the Vietnam issue.
Speaker 1: So what I'm worried about is the contagion of other
Speaker 1: issues coming into stocks that have no play whatsoever in
Speaker 1: that area. That's what I'm worried about. So all right, Dave,
Speaker 1: where you know, there's a lot of people that are,
Speaker 1: in fact, we're concerned about this market kind of you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's evaluation concern, whether it's just a frothiness concern
Speaker 1: when they look at certain segments of the market. And
Speaker 1: we saw that on Monday, perhaps in some of that trading,
Speaker 1: certainly early in the day, where do you feel comfortable
Speaker 1: deploying capital? Uh in markets today? It just feels like,
Speaker 1: even with the tenure at one point four percent and change,
Speaker 1: that's not the place where are you thinking about your allocation?
Speaker 1: Well that's a really good point. And it's funny how
Speaker 1: finally investors are carrying about risk. No one cared about
Speaker 1: risk for a long time. And so when you think
Speaker 1: of risk management and deploying capital right now, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the things that come right in my mind
Speaker 1: is like Costco. So Costco here's a very fine stock.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows about it, or if not, they're members of
Speaker 1: the stock that you know, members of themselves and shopping there.
Speaker 1: But it's a stock that's done tremendously well. If you
Speaker 1: look over the last year, it's basically been the same
Speaker 1: return as the SMP five hundreds, but it's a significant
Speaker 1: less risk. We're talking about a sixty eight beta, so
Speaker 1: a lot less volatility, good equity returns, and moving forward,
Speaker 1: I would say outperforms the market going forward. Domestic, so
Speaker 1: we we know the domestic situation extremely well. With COVID.
Speaker 1: You think emerging markets, Vietnam, you know, China, we don't
Speaker 1: know those situations as well. So you understand this very
Speaker 1: very well. You shop there. This is a very good
Speaker 1: stock to own. Right now, what about consumer um? We've
Speaker 1: seen consumer confidence fall drastic. I'm not saying that's going
Speaker 1: to hit cost code necessarily, maybe even a boon to
Speaker 1: a company like Costco. But what what about the effects
Speaker 1: on the economy. Are you concerned? Well, yes we are,
Speaker 1: but I think that people there's still money that's being spent,
Speaker 1: and that money that's being spent I think has to
Speaker 1: be smarter. I think it has to go online, and
Speaker 1: so they have great numbers um. I think their online
Speaker 1: presence continues to grow. They have a loyal membership as well.
Speaker 1: So I see the same thing out of Target. Even
Speaker 1: though worried about retail, yes, worried again about consumer confidence, yes,
Speaker 1: but they have a history of beating their earnings, earnings
Speaker 1: top and bottom line. The back to school looked good.
Speaker 1: I really think that. You know, that's another good place
Speaker 1: to put money. You understand the story. Don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about unforeseen risks and downside risks. Just watch COVID
Speaker 1: and continue to do what you do, which is the
Speaker 1: consumer shops David. In these two faces, I feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: A couple places you seem less comfortable, and that would
Speaker 1: be kind of what I would call kind of reopening trades.
Speaker 1: You have cells on Southwest and Zoom. Is that just
Speaker 1: a call that, hey, Delta is here and you better
Speaker 1: put the brakes on the reopening trade. Not really. I
Speaker 1: think there's some more of that in Zoom. I think
Speaker 1: it continues to struggle with growth because of the EU
Speaker 1: opening trade, but more competitors come into play. Microsoft teams
Speaker 1: is is used heavily and is rolling out new webinar
Speaker 1: features and rolling out new conference call features, and so
Speaker 1: I see go to Connect and Google and other players
Speaker 1: there that I don't see them that gross story. Everybody
Speaker 1: was buying them for really turning out and let's face it,
Speaker 1: it's underperformed the S and P FI Earth in this
Speaker 1: case the Russell too. But you know the index if
Speaker 1: you will, by about over the last one year, and
Speaker 1: I don't see that bouncing back. That's not the right time.
Speaker 1: Southwest a little bit different. Yeah, there's a COVID story
Speaker 1: with all airlines, and all airlines have struggled over the
Speaker 1: last three months. Recently, over the last maybe two or three,
Speaker 1: eek is doing okay. But Southwest here you have an
Speaker 1: abrupt quick from senior management. Uh, you have some business
Speaker 1: travel extreme going on that's not coming back. So I
Speaker 1: think that over the long term, I'm not negative on
Speaker 1: airlines are reopening there as much as I would say
Speaker 1: Southwest with the downside risk, I'd rather own Delta. I
Speaker 1: actually traveled for business recently. It was the worst experience
Speaker 1: I have ever had. I never want to do it again,
Speaker 1: but you're probably gonna have to. I will do it
Speaker 1: one more time when I moved back to New York.
Speaker 1: Until airlines just generally improved, Like, is there any mode
Speaker 1: of transportation that's worse than an airline? I would rather
Speaker 1: ride this subway than an airline. Just subway rocks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially I love the four five all right, David, You've
Speaker 1: got to buy on on Exon here? Is this a
Speaker 1: dividend play because I mean again looking at the ten
Speaker 1: year one point four or five. Yes, that's higher than
Speaker 1: what we've seen recently, but still a very low yield
Speaker 1: and energy. You know, we've got w t I crude
Speaker 1: oil up at seventy three. It's been ripping. What's your
Speaker 1: call there on XX? Yeah, I'm very positive on Xon.
Speaker 1: You have a yield that's hide like you mentioned six
Speaker 1: point six percent, what have you plus, so you're getting
Speaker 1: paid all in the stock. I don't see crude going
Speaker 1: low work because the supply issues and other things. It's
Speaker 1: up about over the SMPI over the last year and
Speaker 1: so though it's cool about the last little while with oil,
Speaker 1: and it does trade in coinsidne there with oil, the
Speaker 1: reality is is x ON I feel like is a
Speaker 1: very good performer, especially for the risk you're taking. Again,
Speaker 1: what's the downside risk here to x On? It's really
Speaker 1: just oil. There's not much. Governance is great. What they're
Speaker 1: doing is good um. And if we ever get control
Speaker 1: of this stupid virus um, the reality is is that
Speaker 1: there's going to be more demand. So long term, I
Speaker 1: think this is a really good stalk to home. What
Speaker 1: do you make of the big moves and rates, uh
Speaker 1: Dave that we've seen the ten uere yesterday was up
Speaker 1: ten BIFs and today another five. Well, I think it
Speaker 1: goes to show the concern that investors have, especially the
Speaker 1: institutional investors. Right, so we believe that there is a
Speaker 1: shift going to the early deceleration. It's under way. UM,
Speaker 1: if you're not looking at your portfolio right now and
Speaker 1: saying how do I manage risk? Then I don't think
Speaker 1: you're making your portfolio better for tomorrow because risk is here,
Speaker 1: and it's coming um in greater amounts in the future,
Speaker 1: and the volatility is going to continue. So I think
Speaker 1: you have to look at what wins in the future,
Speaker 1: not necessarily what's win one in the past. All Right, David,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for chatting with us with us.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. David Harden, CEO and chief investment
Speaker 1: officers Summit Global Investments one point eight billion dollars in
Speaker 1: assets on their management. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews that
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller, three pt on Fall Sweeney.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast. You
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.