Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a.
Speaker 2: Fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday Fridagg
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Speaker 1: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I am joined
Speaker 1: by our very own at Friday Golf, Joseph Lamanna. I
Speaker 1: love to catch up with Joseph every once in a
Speaker 1: while about pro golf, and uh, obviously we're two majors
Speaker 1: in to the year. We're often running. Before we blink,
Speaker 1: the major season will be over and we'll be onto
Speaker 1: the highly acclaimed and beloved FedEx Cup playoffs. So the
Speaker 1: premise of this show is that we are going to
Speaker 1: ask each other three questions. So I have three questions
Speaker 1: for Joseph, Joseph has three questions for me, maybe even
Speaker 1: Pj'll jump in with a question and we will kind
Speaker 1: of bat those around. Before we get to Joseph, let's
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Speaker 1: let's get to Joseph Lamania. Joseph, welcome on. I kind
Speaker 1: of are you a Pacers fan? You're a Colts fan.
Speaker 1: Are you a Pacers fan?
Speaker 2: Wow, You're no, I'm actually not. I grew up a
Speaker 2: Pacers fan.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I'm from Indiana.
Speaker 1: He left me.
Speaker 2: I kind of left them. We were cool when I
Speaker 2: was a kid, the Reggie Miller days, early two thousand's,
Speaker 2: late nineties.
Speaker 1: Right our town of days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Malice at the Palace. But I think we've been
Speaker 2: a boring team over the last ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to be a bandwagon fan. I
Speaker 2: can't be a fraud like that and jump back on.
Speaker 2: So I'm a huge NBA fan, but honestly, at this point,
Speaker 2: I'm probably rooting more for the Timberwolves, even though they're
Speaker 2: gonna get bounced than my hometown Indiana Pacers. I just
Speaker 2: like to watch great athletes like Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 1: So you're just a generation z just no fandom. I
Speaker 1: root for the players. The exact thing that's just corroding
Speaker 1: the integrity of of all sports leagues is no fandom.
Speaker 1: Just uh yeah, that's sad. That's really sad. It's sad
Speaker 1: to hear. I'm I'm happy that that the the Pacers
Speaker 1: are kind of stuffing it in your face. You know,
Speaker 1: you leave us now, we're gonna be fun. Now we
Speaker 1: got diarye salvernon or stuffing into the face. But we're
Speaker 1: not gonna talk NBA basketball. Even though that that that
Speaker 1: thunder t Wolves game last night was awesome. That was
Speaker 1: an amazing game. We are going to chat about pro golf.
Speaker 1: I think we're all. I prepared three questions for you.
Speaker 1: You prepared three questions for me. I think they're pro
Speaker 1: golf centric. I don't know what your questions are minor
Speaker 1: pro centric for you. And uh, and we're just gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna riff on these topics for a little while
Speaker 1: and uh and see where we go. So, Joseph, do
Speaker 1: you want the first answer? Do you want to answer
Speaker 1: the first question? Or do you want to ask the
Speaker 1: first question?
Speaker 2: I'll go first. I'll go first. Bear with me for
Speaker 2: a second. I'll try to keep this not super long winded.
Speaker 2: But my first question for you, Andy, have we entered
Speaker 2: a little golden era of major championship golf? And what
Speaker 2: I mean by that is heading into the US Open
Speaker 2: at Oakmont the top six names on the odds sheet,
Speaker 2: so Scottie, Rory, Bryson, Rom Xander, and Colin Morikawa. All
Speaker 2: of those golfers not only have one major to their name,
Speaker 2: but have multiple majors to their names. And that's not
Speaker 2: necessarily unprecedented. We don't have odds going back, you know,
Speaker 2: all the way through the history of golf. But when
Speaker 2: you look back at major championship windows, the period that
Speaker 2: comes to mind, like between two thousand and two thousand
Speaker 2: and six, you sort of have a similar dynamic where
Speaker 2: you have Tiger, Ernie, Phil VJ like all of their
Speaker 2: primes coinciding and trading blows in major championships between two
Speaker 2: thousand and two thousand and six, So that's twenty eight
Speaker 2: majors held that subset of names win sixteen majors. Maybe
Speaker 2: if you include somebody like Ratief, he picked off two,
Speaker 2: so that gets you to.
Speaker 1: Herring ens in there too, herringf.
Speaker 2: Three, Harrington's in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: so like that's, yes, we're worth calling out. But then
Speaker 2: after that that period of two thousand and nine to
Speaker 2: twenty and twenty two and sort of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Almost every year you have like a one hit wonder
Speaker 2: type of golfer. There's a couple years where it's like
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen you have Rorty twice. You have Kimer who
Speaker 2: wins a second, and you have Bubba who wins a second.
Speaker 2: But those aren't Kimer and Bubba. Aren't that like Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame class player that somebody like a Colin Morikawa,
Speaker 2: John Rahm Bryson, those names are. So I do think
Speaker 2: we are in a rare period where the top contenders.
Speaker 2: It is very likely over the next three to four
Speaker 2: years we have all these golfers in their primes. I
Speaker 2: would be surprised if they aren't winning half of the
Speaker 2: major championships. And then before that, just I guess for
Speaker 2: a little historical context. The other period that I see
Speaker 2: that's sort of like that is kind of the seventies
Speaker 2: and the eighties where you have a lot of those
Speaker 2: Trevino primes overlapping Jack Nicholas, Tom Watson, Sevy Gary Player,
Speaker 2: Ray Floyd Hale, Irwin like those, A lot of those
Speaker 2: golfers primes overlap. But this is you have these cycles
Speaker 2: in golf where a lot of generations there are windows
Speaker 2: and there are overlaps and we are in one right
Speaker 2: now where we have six seven if you include JT.
Speaker 2: Great golfers with multiple majors under their belts entering each major,
Speaker 2: as you know that top five to eight set of favorites,
Speaker 2: you got a smile on your face. Where are you
Speaker 2: going with this?
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if there's a question.
Speaker 2: Do you think we've entered a golden era of major champs?
Speaker 1: They cuculaid out the case for me. I don't have to,
Speaker 1: you know, I think like, do you agree? I think
Speaker 1: the way that I would I would think about this
Speaker 1: is and I've noticed that the last few majors, and
Speaker 1: it's been a recent phenomenon where you get into the
Speaker 1: major and you get going and it becomes where is Scotty?
Speaker 1: Where is Rory? Where is rom Where is a player
Speaker 1: of that ilk? Where's Bryson? And that to me is
Speaker 1: signaling that is the top of the leader board. And
Speaker 1: this is not supposed to be disrespectful of other great players,
Speaker 1: but I think of like Thurston Lawrence at last year's Open.
Speaker 1: I think about even Billy Horssechell at last year's Open.
Speaker 1: I think about you know, at the you know, the
Speaker 1: at the at the Masters, you think about players around
Speaker 1: the lead, you know, even like even Justin Rose, and
Speaker 1: you know, you know, outside of Bryson, I think like
Speaker 1: the Justin Rose think kind of backdoored in he I
Speaker 1: don't think he necessarily thought he could win, and he
Speaker 1: surged up the leader board, right, But like you get
Speaker 1: to this, you're getting to this point where it's starting
Speaker 1: to become and feel like who whichever one of those
Speaker 1: guys is the highest up, is the actual leader of
Speaker 1: the tournament because you don't think that the their competitors
Speaker 1: can hang onto the rope long enough to really beat
Speaker 1: them down the stretch on a Sunday. And I think
Speaker 1: it's like, what's what's common with all of them outside
Speaker 1: of Morokawa is that all of them possess a good
Speaker 1: deal speed and the ability to really dominate a golf
Speaker 1: tournament with their driver. They both they all can be
Speaker 1: border on elite. If not, they just live an elite
Speaker 1: approach play territory, and you know their their power with
Speaker 1: the off the tee very little bit. But like the
Speaker 1: ones that aren't super elite with their irons can be
Speaker 1: can be extraordinarily elite with their driver, right, where they
Speaker 1: they they that you know, covers any difference between being
Speaker 1: you know, very very good with the approach play to great.
Speaker 1: And then you also couple the fact that they all
Speaker 1: have really good short games and can get really hot
Speaker 1: with the putter outside of like you know, like even
Speaker 1: Scotty now is it's top twenty putter in the world,
Speaker 1: like right, where So you put to these guys together
Speaker 1: and they're just they're just all around awesome players, Like
Speaker 1: they are great at everything when they're cooking, and you
Speaker 1: start to like look at other players, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you think about the players that are just on the
Speaker 1: cusps below Tommy Fleetwood, like can't really dominate. Of course
Speaker 1: off the tee, the putter is not great, right, other
Speaker 1: two parts of the game pretty good, really good, you know,
Speaker 1: but you know those two things you look at even
Speaker 1: a Justin Thomas, and this is one of my questions
Speaker 1: with Justin is for you with Justin Thomas, but like
Speaker 1: that driver always seems to get him in trouble, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's like a wild T shot, a wild t
Speaker 1: shot there, like maybe he can't drive the ball well
Speaker 1: enough to win the biggest tournament is a question I have,
Speaker 1: you know, you go down the list, you get to
Speaker 1: Deki Matsuyama, like the putter's always an issue, can can
Speaker 1: do from tee to green what all those other guys do,
Speaker 1: But like you have to get like a fluke putting
Speaker 1: performance for him to enter the all round sphere. So
Speaker 1: you start to like kind of look at these players,
Speaker 1: and they have they have separated themselves, And I think
Speaker 1: the only question is who's gonna be the next player
Speaker 1: that enters into this realm of like all around excellence?
Speaker 1: Is it Ludvig a Obert? Like is he the next
Speaker 1: guy that jumps into the all around excellence you know
Speaker 1: kind of bucket. I think you want to see some
Speaker 1: more stuff from him from a from a consistency standpoint
Speaker 1: and like you know, around in approaching the greens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess to turn this into more of
Speaker 2: a question than a statement that we're in the golden
Speaker 2: era of majors, do you think that there's a a
Speaker 2: level of being a prisoner of the moment or two
Speaker 2: to three years from now, do you expect it to
Speaker 2: be that set of six golfers trading blows still? Because
Speaker 2: I think there's a case to be made on both
Speaker 2: sides there.
Speaker 1: Well, I think golf's always cyclical, so much of what
Speaker 1: you look at changes quickly, and like the best way
Speaker 1: to look at this is the best way to frame
Speaker 1: it is the twenty twenty two, twenty twenty one US
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup team where we you look at that team
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my god, this team is stacked.
Speaker 1: All these guys are going to be around like everything
Speaker 1: written was like, all these guys are going to be
Speaker 1: around forever. This team, you know, Europe has no chance
Speaker 1: of winning a Ryder Cup in a long time because
Speaker 1: of how dominant this team is. And it's like that
Speaker 1: team was, you know, anchored by DJ and Brooks, and
Speaker 1: I think right now they're kind of long shots. There's
Speaker 1: also players like you know, Tony Finow, who's probably a
Speaker 1: long shot to make this team this year. You have
Speaker 1: Jordan Speith, who's right now like thirty first in the rankings.
Speaker 1: You have you know Pat Reid, who knows what that'll be,
Speaker 1: Daniel Berger, you know, like all in the mix. But
Speaker 1: then like the last guy on that team, Pat Reid
Speaker 1: was not on the team. He was snubbed. He was
Speaker 1: like the snub pick for the last guy that was
Speaker 1: picked on the team Scheffler, who's now like, without a doubt,
Speaker 1: head and shoulders the best American golfer.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So it's like the cyclical nature of golf. Usually, I
Speaker 1: think players operate in two to three year windows. Like
Speaker 1: a normal player operates in two to three year windows.
Speaker 1: Great great players operate in ten to fifteen year windows,
Speaker 1: and like the rare outliers operate in like thirty year windows,
Speaker 1: as we've seen with Phil, we saw with Jack, we're
Speaker 1: seeing with with Rory McElroy is getting into that into
Speaker 1: that twenty year window. But like if you start to
Speaker 1: draw some lines in the sand, right, like we're already
Speaker 1: ten years into Jordan Speed, We're almost ten years into
Speaker 1: Justin Thomas. If we look at you know, these other
Speaker 1: guys right that that you mentioned John Rahm, we're you know,
Speaker 1: six seven years into that. It's seven years probably, I
Speaker 1: would say, is a fair number into into John Rahm,
Speaker 1: Bryson to Shamba. I think you probably draw the line
Speaker 1: at like twenty nineteen is the start of him being
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen being like really, you know good, So you're
Speaker 1: you're getting into set year seven, And I think that
Speaker 1: becomes a question. So like if you if you're there
Speaker 1: already three years from now, you're your ten of Bryson,
Speaker 1: and it could be he continued, like I kind of
Speaker 1: think he's going to continue to get better for a
Speaker 1: little while. I think like this has a lot to
Speaker 1: do with like where where is golf right now? Are
Speaker 1: we are we resetting to kind of a normalization of
Speaker 1: how the sport works or are we still in this
Speaker 1: like tremendous youth wave because the last two generations have
Speaker 1: been dominated by youth. Right That's been like kind of
Speaker 1: the the story of golf is like, look at all
Speaker 1: these young stars. But the question I have is when
Speaker 1: do we return Because we are going to return to
Speaker 1: where guys are better at age thirty three than they
Speaker 1: are at twenty three. We are going to return to
Speaker 1: to some some semblance of that because like to me,
Speaker 1: guys are learning how to hold garner speed, hold on
Speaker 1: to speed, and like that's been like the biggest trend
Speaker 1: I think in the last few years is like the
Speaker 1: ability to hold on to speed. But then you also
Speaker 1: get the benefit of having like a extremely great golf
Speaker 1: brain and experience matters. And you watched it at at
Speaker 1: Colonial last week with Maddy Schmid just hitting like incomprehensible
Speaker 1: shots in the wind, Like it's like, oh, he just
Speaker 1: like literally doesn't know how to hit him knockdown shot,
Speaker 1: and like that's that's the stuff that you pick up
Speaker 1: when you're thirty three or you're twenty eight. And I
Speaker 1: think we're going to see careers shift back, and I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering, are we there with this generation?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would almost potentially challenge that it was dominated
Speaker 2: by youth, Like were digging into that a little bit.
Speaker 2: I mean there's definitely instances of that, right Speeth and
Speaker 2: JT when they arrived on the scene. Those are good examples.
Speaker 2: But I think where we are seeing right now a
Speaker 2: lot of golfers playing their best golf ages twenty eight
Speaker 2: to thirty five. I think there are a couple of
Speaker 2: great examples this year like a JJ Spawn, a Russell Henley,
Speaker 2: a Keegan Bradley playing good golf in their mid to
Speaker 2: late thirties. And so that's where I am. I'm nervous
Speaker 2: or cautious about being a prisoner of the moment, but
Speaker 2: I think there's a unique dynamic in golf right now
Speaker 2: having Scottie Rory, Bryce and Romin Xander and Colin all
Speaker 2: twenty eight to thirty one, with the exception of Rory
Speaker 2: who's thirty six. It feels like we're set up for
Speaker 2: a four to five years stress true of true all
Speaker 2: time great. It's not, you know, not necessarily they're all
Speaker 2: going to be top fifteen to thirty players of all time,
Speaker 2: but they're all gonna win multiple majors, them all in
Speaker 2: their primes, playing that best golf of their careers, like
Speaker 2: you're mentioning in that prime window. So I would almost
Speaker 2: I'd feel pretty confident predicting that that group of golfers
Speaker 2: will take down the majority of majors in the next
Speaker 2: of the next three to four years, especially if you
Speaker 2: include this year or last year two where they've already
Speaker 2: taken six straight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, like what's crazy to be is
Speaker 1: like Phil one is first major at age thirty four. VJ.
Speaker 1: Singh won his first major. I mean he wasn't. I
Speaker 1: don't think he played on the PGA Tour until he
Speaker 1: was like thirty five, you know, So you know when
Speaker 1: you look at that, like it's the games changed so
Speaker 1: much in terms of like you and the ability to
Speaker 1: get to the PJ and it's one.
Speaker 2: Technology TrackMan in driver heads.
Speaker 1: Track man in driver heads and the ball that doesn't
Speaker 1: spin that requires so much less shot making. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, I'm thirty nine, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm like in the era I played both equipment. I
Speaker 1: know exactly what the difference was. The I don't want
Speaker 1: to be old man yelling at the clouds. And I
Speaker 1: do think like the level of athlete that we have
Speaker 1: today is at a extraordinarily different level. Like the way
Speaker 1: they take care of their bodies, the way they they
Speaker 1: take care of like their nutrition is at an extraordinarily
Speaker 1: different level than when I watched started watching pro golf.
Speaker 1: But the answers to the test are remarkably easier than
Speaker 1: they used to be, which is that's why the sport
Speaker 1: got so young for a while. But I'm wondering, if
Speaker 1: we've hit like a kind of a cap of where
Speaker 1: for now where, how how much it's not getting easier
Speaker 1: for the college kid now than it was for the
Speaker 1: college kid eight years ago, if that's going to push
Speaker 1: that age back up where experience does matter again. So
Speaker 1: if that's the case, like so if if you operate
Speaker 1: under that premise that it's not it hasn't gotten easier
Speaker 1: in the last five years for college kids and in
Speaker 1: you know, juniors. If you operate under that premise, then
Speaker 1: I would I would guess that we're going to see
Speaker 1: more long careers and more more players playing at an
Speaker 1: extremely high level into their mid to late thirties. The
Speaker 1: other thing is the money's normalized, right, like where being
Speaker 1: really rich and like it it's not like a newfound
Speaker 1: thing like it was. I think like in the in
Speaker 1: the mid two thousand, they're like the right after the
Speaker 1: Tiger thing where like guys know they're going to be
Speaker 1: rich if they get to the top and then it
Speaker 1: you know, I think just generally that's going to yield
Speaker 1: longer careers and you're gonna have guys that flame out
Speaker 1: really quick when they get their ten million dollars. I'll uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just not gonna name names. I don't
Speaker 1: want to throw anybody under the bus, but like they're
Speaker 1: going to get their ten million and be set and
Speaker 1: they're going to flame out, But like the the guys
Speaker 1: that are at the top of the game are just
Speaker 1: going to keep going. So yeah, I don't I guess
Speaker 1: that's like the bet is because the other side of
Speaker 1: the coin is, like you watch the NCAAs this week,
Speaker 1: and you say, holy shit, look at this speed coming.
Speaker 1: It's just getting faster. They're going to control it better,
Speaker 1: and these guys are going to get unseated by just
Speaker 1: better players. Like that's the You could run that opposite
Speaker 1: direction and say that, and I think that's absolutely true too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only other point that I would add, and
Speaker 2: we've spent a lot of time on question one, it
Speaker 2: seems like a pretty safe assertion that the difference between
Speaker 2: regular tour golf and major championship golf has never been
Speaker 2: bigger in terms of course setup. You know that you
Speaker 2: have the sub air at Quail Hollow absolutely humming, and
Speaker 2: majors having so much attention put into the setup. The
Speaker 2: you know when there's rough, it being super thick rough,
Speaker 2: firm greens, prioritizing firmness at all costs. And then the
Speaker 2: regular weekend and week out tour stops where you got
Speaker 2: to get if it's a full field one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty one hundred and forty players through, that dictates set up.
Speaker 2: So I do think we're in a period where technology,
Speaker 2: subair systems, you know, so much agronomic development. Major championship
Speaker 2: setups are much different than regular tour stop setups, probably
Speaker 2: more than at any point in history, and that I
Speaker 2: would imagine only favors those more experienced players and brings
Speaker 2: out the guys who are truly skilled. So I'm kind
Speaker 2: of expecting that set of five or six golfers to
Speaker 2: dominate for the next four to five years. Maybe one
Speaker 2: of them or two of them will drop out, but
Speaker 2: I think we're in a unique period in golf where
Speaker 2: we're going to see domination from a small subset of golfers.
Speaker 1: Bonus question, who would you expect to jump into that group?
Speaker 1: If of a name that's not in there right now,
Speaker 1: Blood Big, that's I think that would probably be the consensus.
Speaker 1: And it makes sense obviously, like he's already had like
Speaker 1: immense success at a guest to National, which is you know,
Speaker 1: the one that you go to every single year, right
Speaker 1: all right? My first question to you, and we touched
Speaker 1: on it a little bit, is JT back we did
Speaker 1: a podcast like to preface this, I think we're at
Speaker 1: a really interesting point in JT's career last year after
Speaker 1: his kind of second by his standards down year in
Speaker 1: a three year window, and the real question was, like
Speaker 1: what the question of the podcast was what is JT?
Speaker 1: And we sketched out a couple things, and if I
Speaker 1: had to, like, I think the best case scenario has
Speaker 1: played out over the last you know, four months of
Speaker 1: five months of PGA Tour golf. Where do you view
Speaker 1: JT right now?
Speaker 2: I think when we did that pod, if my memory
Speaker 2: is correct, I think I said his ceiling was close
Speaker 2: to being maybe not absolute ceiling, but like a ninetieth
Speaker 2: percentile outcome would be that he's the eighth to twelfth
Speaker 2: best player in the world. And I think early in
Speaker 2: this year it looked like potentially he was the fourth
Speaker 2: or fifth best player in the world. But I do
Speaker 2: think as we've seen some major championship golf, Justin has
Speaker 2: settled into that eight to fifteen range. And the way
Speaker 2: I view Justin, I think there's certain players that are
Speaker 2: kind of hard to always nail down exactly what their
Speaker 2: skill set's going to look like weekend in week out.
Speaker 2: JT's pretty easy for me, and you've already mentioned it
Speaker 2: that driver gets wild and can be a problem to
Speaker 2: where he is giving up on a demanding off the
Speaker 2: tee setup. He's he can't keep up with Scottie Scheffler
Speaker 2: with John Rahm, with Rory, with Xander, with Ludwig, and
Speaker 2: somebody could say, well he wont at the RBC Heritage
Speaker 2: at Harbortown, like you can't spray it out there. That's true,
Speaker 2: but you also take a lot of less than driver
Speaker 2: off of the tea out there. And I think similarly
Speaker 2: at Colonial, like we just saw Maddy Schmid, who's got
Speaker 2: a lot of speed, not the most accurate player, he
Speaker 2: could kind of get away with hitting a lot of
Speaker 2: less than driver off of the tea at those types
Speaker 2: of setups. And so we've seen Justin Thomas have some
Speaker 2: of his best finishes Thalspar. Another course, you take a
Speaker 2: lot of less than driver off the tee. The AMX
Speaker 2: pretty friendly set up at PJ West, a lot of
Speaker 2: room off the tee, a lot of wedges. So I
Speaker 2: see JT clearly outside of that group of the top
Speaker 2: five to six, somewhere in the eight to fifteen range
Speaker 2: and not a true threat in major championships right now
Speaker 2: because he cannot keep the driver consistently in play and
Speaker 2: it's gonna bite him once or twice around with a
Speaker 2: big miss. So I mean, he's hitting fifty seven percent
Speaker 2: of his fairways this year that's bottom half of the tour.
Speaker 2: But beyond just a fairway percentage, it's those big misses,
Speaker 2: those sprays where you're hitting something three hundred and fifteen
Speaker 2: yards off line that I just think will bite him
Speaker 2: more off and than it's gonna bite those top drivers
Speaker 2: of the golf on the world. So I think our
Speaker 2: of our evaluation of him being kind of an eight
Speaker 2: to fifteen in the world type of guy is accurate.
Speaker 2: I think that's right where he is.
Speaker 1: I think like NBA and pro golf is always like
Speaker 1: a good comp because the NBA is so superstar driven,
Speaker 1: and I think like if you if you were comparing
Speaker 1: JT in the NBA, he would not be like a
Speaker 1: tier one superstar where you're you're talking about like your Jokic,
Speaker 1: your SGA, you know, even you know Luca Jason Tatum,
Speaker 1: you know type thing like if you're doing this, like
Speaker 1: you can't go to like number seven and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's the level of Anthony Edwards. No,
Speaker 1: like he's more of like your like best player on
Speaker 1: a on a team that's like a six or you know,
Speaker 1: like a you know, sixth seed in the West or
Speaker 1: in the East, in the East, right, like maybe even
Speaker 1: a seven or eight seed, because like there's so many
Speaker 1: more players in the NBA you have to remember than
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, so you have to like kind of
Speaker 1: push down on it. But like he's like a you know,
Speaker 1: he's I don't know, I'm thinking like Devin Booker, right,
Speaker 1: can't carry a team, but like he is, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the quintessential thing about JT is like it's
Speaker 1: been so puzzling why he hasn't played well at Augusta National.
Speaker 1: But you listen to them Scottie Scheffler talk about Augusta
Speaker 1: National and he talks about like how precise you have
Speaker 1: to be off the tee even though there's a lot
Speaker 1: of space, Like you have to get it into the
Speaker 1: right spot. And that's the thing he can't do at
Speaker 1: a high level right now with the driver is he
Speaker 1: just cannot. He cannot play over seventy two holes at
Speaker 1: an elite level at a at a golf course that
Speaker 1: supremely tests your capabilities of driving the golf ball. And
Speaker 1: that's like that's the difference right now between him being
Speaker 1: way up there because the putter is as good as
Speaker 1: ever been and I think like one of the other
Speaker 1: things I really respect about JT. And something I was
Speaker 1: thinking about is like I've seen his dad around way
Speaker 1: less this year, and I think, like, it's always so
Speaker 1: good when a player takes ownership of their golf swing.
Speaker 1: And I think JT Xander like if you go down
Speaker 1: the list, like if you go down the list of
Speaker 1: the best players in the world, like Randy Smith is there,
Speaker 1: but like Scotty has the ability to self correct as
Speaker 1: we saw during the PGA, like that that was all
Speaker 1: like ownership in knowing your swing. Rory McElroy never has
Speaker 1: a coach really around, right, like maybe Faxon on the greens,
Speaker 1: but like Michael Bannon, he works with him like siloed off.
Speaker 1: Week of a tournament, no coach around Bryce of Deshambeau
Speaker 1: like he has worked with instructors. You know, there's Mike Schi,
Speaker 1: there's Chris Como, he's worked with, but week of a tournament,
Speaker 1: no coach around. He owns his game. John Rahm similarly
Speaker 1: owns his swing, owns his game. Nobody's like you don't
Speaker 1: like to me. There is something about like that self reliance,
Speaker 1: not being able to turn around point the blame that
Speaker 1: that brings a different level of golfer out. Really the
Speaker 1: only player that like has made a lot of waves
Speaker 1: about you know that we just talked about at the
Speaker 1: top level with like their coach is is Colin Morikawa,
Speaker 1: who's like kind of jumped around coaches for a while.
Speaker 1: But I would tell you that, like they the story
Speaker 1: on the course with those guys is never about like
Speaker 1: what their instructor is doing. And I think like more
Speaker 1: players on the PGA Tour should look at that because
Speaker 1: like Justin Thomas, he's really i think reinvigorated his game
Speaker 1: and nothing like for years the story was always Mike Thomas, like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's there he is with his dad. Same thing with Xander.
Speaker 1: Xander went to a new level the more you obviously
Speaker 1: he was he was working. I think it was with
Speaker 1: Chris Como too, but like he's taken like he There's
Speaker 1: this idea of owning your golf swing that I think
Speaker 1: gets underlooked by like the ability like these guys can
Speaker 1: have a coach with them all the time and it
Speaker 1: becomes a crutch. It becomes a like the you reached
Speaker 1: the highest level that you can be in the sport
Speaker 1: when you are are self reliant from an instruction standpoint,
Speaker 1: and I think like those like you, all those top guys,
Speaker 1: like they could go to a tournament without their swing
Speaker 1: coach and be perfectly fine, and.
Speaker 2: Most of them do, probably and as well. Definitely an
Speaker 2: especially relevant point with Augusta National, where there is limited
Speaker 2: coach access but inside the ropes, which golfers have talked
Speaker 2: about that it is a different I've heard some guys
Speaker 2: complain about that, that you can't have your swing coach
Speaker 2: with you, and if you if you're a golfer who
Speaker 2: gets obviously they're all very routine oriented, you get thrown
Speaker 2: off by that, it could impact your performance. So I
Speaker 2: do think that's a relevant point. Andy, I guess to
Speaker 2: zero in a little bit, where are you exactly with JT?
Speaker 2: Like I would say, at a setup like Oakmont, very
Speaker 2: driver or heavy can't completely spray it. I'm pretty comfortable
Speaker 2: saying that Justin Thomas is not a threat to win
Speaker 2: that golf tournament. The same way, I really didn't feel
Speaker 2: particularly positively about him entering Quail Hollow, another driver heavy
Speaker 2: total driving a test examination, So I don't think he's
Speaker 2: too much of a threat to win at Oakmont. Where
Speaker 2: are you on that?
Speaker 1: I think I'm in a similar vein for him to
Speaker 1: win a major championship, I think the rest of this
Speaker 1: year and you know, you go extend into next year.
Speaker 1: Like aronomy could be a golf course where he might
Speaker 1: be able to get away with driving it a little
Speaker 1: so so, right, but you know, particularly Oakmont, like he
Speaker 1: just would have to have the best driver week of
Speaker 1: the year, which is not inconceivable that can happen. He
Speaker 1: can get if he got into a rhythm and felt
Speaker 1: really good about the driver and had maybe one or
Speaker 1: two big misses, he'd be okay.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The other the other thing, I think there's like enough
Speaker 1: space at Oakmont, like they've they've but like the reality,
Speaker 1: you know, one thing Oakmont could do is it could
Speaker 1: you know, if he drives it well, he's got to
Speaker 1: drive it really well. But like the idea of like
Speaker 1: it punish is going to punish everybody and people are
Speaker 1: gonna miss Like there could be like an element of
Speaker 1: like if he plays really smart from his misses, he
Speaker 1: could do this. Like it seems to me like the
Speaker 1: what we're at with like JT is like there's just
Speaker 1: like eighteen holes, Like there's a there's an eighteen hole
Speaker 1: stretch in majors that just like subsequently subsequently kills him,
Speaker 1: you know, and then he'll have eighteen holes where he's
Speaker 1: the best player on the golf course. And and so
Speaker 1: I just like there's just, you know, golf so much
Speaker 1: about about consistency. Like every great player all they want
Speaker 1: to be is more consistent. And that's the thing that
Speaker 1: JT just has to be more consistent of the tea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess while we're there, really good test at
Speaker 2: Mirfield Village to see where JT's off the tea game
Speaker 2: stacks up. Can't spray it there. So I think coming
Speaker 2: into the US Open, that's a great litmus test of
Speaker 2: where his driver is.
Speaker 1: All right, what's your next question?
Speaker 2: All right, I'll go, how do you explain Patrick Cantlay?
Speaker 2: It is a because with certain golfer the punchline obviously
Speaker 2: major championship performance horrific. In his career five total top
Speaker 2: tens and thirty three major starts. He's won Memorial twice,
Speaker 2: He's won two BMW's, a Tour championship in Great at
Speaker 2: Ryder Cups, stinks in major championships, and he hasn't even
Speaker 2: been relevant, like outside of Pinehurst where last summer he
Speaker 2: had a little taste near the lead. Patrick Cantlay hasn't
Speaker 2: even been relevant in major championships, and he has a
Speaker 2: well rounded skill set. It's not like a guy whose
Speaker 2: games should only set up for regular tour stops. So andy,
Speaker 2: how do you make sense of a career like Patrick
Speaker 2: camp It is confounding to me.
Speaker 1: It's a great question. You know, up until recently, like
Speaker 1: last year, one of my favorite stats was like no
Speaker 1: major championships, most weeks in the top ten, and I
Speaker 1: think that's he's out of that now. If you google
Speaker 1: most weeks in the top ten, maybe PJ can google this.
Speaker 1: While I'm talking most weeks in the top ten of
Speaker 1: the OBJR, there's a Wikipedia page. I mean, he ranks
Speaker 1: like right around like Luke Donald, Ricky Fowler, and yet
Speaker 1: he doesn't. I don't think it talked about in the
Speaker 1: same vein like this was like a bona fide top
Speaker 1: five player for a couple of years and he didn't
Speaker 1: crack an egg in a major. You know, I guess
Speaker 1: you could say, like the Master the Tiger Masters, he
Speaker 1: had a chance, roughly bit a chance, like you know,
Speaker 1: like you could have talked yourself into like maybe he's
Speaker 1: to win this tournament on the back nine. But I think,
Speaker 1: like I think he's accomplished a lot of other stuff.
Speaker 1: He's had a crazy career, like a crazy career in
Speaker 1: terms of like age nineteen, back injury, personal tragedy, like
Speaker 1: back injury that almost like you know, like I I
Speaker 1: think in the Ryan Labner piece that he wrote about
Speaker 1: about you know, his comeback, right when it came out,
Speaker 1: it was a great piece to like revisit probably eight
Speaker 1: years ago. You know, I think he was like considering
Speaker 1: what he was going to do with his life outside
Speaker 1: of golf, and this was like at age nineteen, everybody's like,
Speaker 1: holy cow, this is like the next big thing. I
Speaker 1: just some of it I would chalk up to variants,
Speaker 1: like sometimes you just don't play your best golf the
Speaker 1: week you have to. And one of the hard things
Speaker 1: about pro golf is that there's four weeks a year,
Speaker 1: as we're talking about Patrick Cantley, that really defined your career,
Speaker 1: and he hasn't done it in any of those four weeks,
Speaker 1: like to an extent of like one or two performances
Speaker 1: where you're like, okay, like maybe he could do that.
Speaker 1: There's been like two majors where you walk away with like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Patrick can't like can win a major. I would point
Speaker 1: to like, you know, and I don't know, this is
Speaker 1: like a completely off the cuff theory. He's always been
Speaker 1: He's been an incredible driver of the golf ball without
Speaker 1: incredible swing speed. And I wonder if there's any corollary
Speaker 1: to a certain threshold of swing speed in this era
Speaker 1: that we're in that yields major champions. And like, when
Speaker 1: I think about that, like specifically swing speed, where swing
Speaker 1: speed is going to help you the most is when
Speaker 1: you drive it off the fairway it is. And also
Speaker 1: where swing speed can help you at the most is
Speaker 1: approaching really firm greens, Like that's going to give you
Speaker 1: the ability to hit that real towering iron shot into
Speaker 1: induce into firm, tough greens. And one of the questions
Speaker 1: I might have, and this is just theoretically based, is
Speaker 1: like is is Patrick Can'tley just like a really good
Speaker 1: golfer and never was a really great golfer. And PGA
Speaker 1: tour setups do don't really differentiate between really good golfers
Speaker 1: and really great golfer as well.
Speaker 2: I think in those are reasonable counter arguments, but then
Speaker 2: the pushback I would give is well, first of all,
Speaker 2: Patrick Cantley, it's got a sneaky amount of speed, like
Speaker 2: he's a one eighty ball speed guy this year.
Speaker 1: But I think it's not from swing speed, So that's
Speaker 1: from like that's from like he he just like he
Speaker 1: hits it so freaking solid and he produces a lot
Speaker 1: of speed where he's optimized like this is I've always
Speaker 1: been so impressed with the speed he he he gets
Speaker 1: to with with middle of the road swing speed.
Speaker 2: That that would be. That's an interesting angle, I would
Speaker 2: I'd be curious. Maybe I'll dig into that and like
Speaker 2: is it coming from shots out of the rough in
Speaker 2: Majors that he just doesn't have enough swing speed to
Speaker 2: hoist it up into the ear? All right, I'll take.
Speaker 1: The other thing is like he doesn't he doesn't have
Speaker 1: like a steeper angle, like he's kind of he's not flat,
Speaker 1: but he's like I mean, he's got a great golf swing,
Speaker 1: but like you see, like JT is a great rough
Speaker 1: player because of like how high his hands get at
Speaker 1: the top of his swing, like versus Rom who's kind
Speaker 1: of like more flat and laid off, like like he
Speaker 1: gets through rough with sheer power, not with technique and
Speaker 1: and Patrick Cantley's kind of in between those without a
Speaker 1: lot of speed or power, right, He garners, he garners
Speaker 1: his his ball speed's incredible because of how like he's
Speaker 1: middle of the road swing speed. It's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy just hits the dead center of the face
Speaker 1: every single time. And that's what's amazing to me about
Speaker 1: about Cantley.
Speaker 2: I like you're giving a concrete potential theory. I think again,
Speaker 2: some of the pushback would be will he's won a
Speaker 2: couple big demanding setups, like the two BMW's he's won, well,
Speaker 2: I guess one of them in particular, Caves Valley was
Speaker 2: kind of a bomber's rough, and he's won a tour
Speaker 2: championship East Lakes kind of in that ILK. Memorial is
Speaker 2: not a bomb and gouge type of setup. So his
Speaker 2: two wins at Memorial don't necessarily dispel the notion that
Speaker 2: you're offering. I think that's an interesting thing to look at.
Speaker 2: It probably doesn't fully explain why he can't even contend,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that's a satisfying explanation. Might have to dig
Speaker 2: into that a little more. Just still a confounding career
Speaker 2: that He has five top tens and thirty three major starts.
Speaker 2: Cordy Connors has five top tens and twenty six starts.
Speaker 2: Like Cordy Connors has put together as good of a
Speaker 2: major championship track record as Patrick Canlay, he doesn't have
Speaker 2: a ton of speed.
Speaker 1: Is is can't lay like a modern day st Stricker?
Speaker 2: I mean is he is he a tracking? Is Joaquing
Speaker 2: Neeman tracking like a Patrick Cantlay is like another Like
Speaker 2: it's kind of it's kind of interesting to look at
Speaker 2: those differences. Yeah, Steve Stricker is an interesting name to
Speaker 2: throw out too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the you know where he played well the Old
Speaker 1: Course in twenty twenty two. He obviously had the Masters
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen he was closer there. So twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: PGA Championship, where was that at?
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty nineteen is Bethpage. Beth Page, Beth Page twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen is Bellerief.
Speaker 1: So twenty nineteen in twenty eighteen play he's played his
Speaker 1: best at at the It looks like the PGA really.
Speaker 2: But Beth Page is he's way back right? That that
Speaker 2: was you know Brooks. Indeed, he wasn't come super competitive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting to look at right
Speaker 1: where where he's played the best, where he's the best chances.
Speaker 1: He played well last year at Pinehurst T three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: non competitive though never he was in it. He was
Speaker 1: kind of in it, right, he was playing with Rory
Speaker 1: on the final day. He was competitive, I guess there
Speaker 1: sort of.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I never felt like he was gonna win, but sort of.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's my second question.
Speaker 1: But that's a golf course without rough.
Speaker 2: Some people would argue have played pretty bomb and Gougee.
Speaker 2: I would disagree, but yes, I'm with you, all right,
Speaker 2: what's your what's your second question?
Speaker 1: My second question to you is non Rory, Scottie and
Speaker 1: we're gonna say j t or Ludwig. Those are the
Speaker 1: four probably biggest name winners on the PGA Tour. Which
Speaker 1: winner on live or the PGA Tour should we be
Speaker 1: most excited about?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go Victor Howland and.
Speaker 1: I should have taken him out too.
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: Do you want me to take FedEx Cup champion? The
Speaker 1: point was like, of of the non household names, who
Speaker 1: should we be most excited about?
Speaker 2: Can I am I allowed to pick Sepstraca?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can take the tank.
Speaker 2: Take the tank. Then he was my he was my
Speaker 2: runner up. Sepstraca has kind of followed that career progression
Speaker 2: that you're talking about, right, a player who's gotten better
Speaker 2: and better now in his early thirties. He's won twice
Speaker 2: this year. AMX is again a softer setup and not
Speaker 2: the strongest field. The truest was I mean, that was
Speaker 2: the best players in the world. Obviously you didn't have
Speaker 2: to live guys there, but that's a bona fide tough
Speaker 2: win that Cepstraca took down. So I think obviously that
Speaker 2: the next step for him would be some major championship
Speaker 2: success and trying to get in the mix in this
Speaker 2: little runway of his the prime of his career. Maybe
Speaker 2: that's going to be the next two years or so.
Speaker 2: I don't think Sepstraca is going to go down as
Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer, So if we're following that, he's
Speaker 2: probably got a two to four year window of really
Speaker 2: good golf. Then he needs to do something in majors
Speaker 2: the next couple of years. But especially as you look
Speaker 2: at the Ryder Cup, as I'm sure we'll talk about
Speaker 2: here shortly at that page, and people that could be
Speaker 2: shining lights for Team Europe. I think what Sepstrac has
Speaker 2: done is has any golfer in the world this year?
Speaker 2: Andy elevated his stature within the game as much as
Speaker 2: Cepstraca has.
Speaker 1: I would argue Rory getting into his career career Grand Slam.
Speaker 1: All right, that's like probably the most you could elevate
Speaker 1: your career.
Speaker 2: Okay, a little different, but okay.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I think like in like the I
Speaker 1: think like a couple players have elevated, like Ben Griffin
Speaker 1: has elevated his career substantially, right.
Speaker 2: That feels Does that feel as legit?
Speaker 1: No? No, it doesn't in the sense because like Sepstraca
Speaker 1: is like a bona fide lock on on the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup team. It'll be his second Ryder Cup. You know.
Speaker 1: You just start to think about like I think like
Speaker 1: underrated career metrics are like numbers of Ryder Cup or
Speaker 1: President's Cup or teams that you play on, because it
Speaker 1: like showcases, like yeah, I was one of the twelve
Speaker 1: best Europeans for X number of years. When you especially
Speaker 1: when you get to like ten year ten year gaps
Speaker 1: like those are there aren't a ton of players and
Speaker 1: like perfect point Patrick Cantley, Like when you start, you
Speaker 1: go down his list, like he's going to be on
Speaker 1: the team this year, assuming he is in the top
Speaker 1: sixteen of points he's going he's like twelve, he's a lot.
Speaker 1: He's going to be on the team. But like you
Speaker 1: started to look at Patrick Cantlay to tie this back
Speaker 1: to like he's going to have like an insane amount
Speaker 1: of international team appearances. Stepstraca, you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: like and I think like major championship wise, like not
Speaker 1: every course is for for step right, if you think
Speaker 1: about him, he's a big guy. He doesn't doesn't mash
Speaker 1: it though, and by like he's made like a but
Speaker 1: it's almost like he's optimized his game for the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour and not necessarily his game for major championships. And
Speaker 1: I think that's like actually like a legitimate thing that
Speaker 1: should be talked about more. Is that if you want
Speaker 1: to play your best in majors, does that mean you
Speaker 1: approach PGA Tour setups and the way you model your game?
Speaker 1: Maybe because like what Steps figured out is like he's
Speaker 1: dialed back speed. I think he's talked about this and
Speaker 1: that's like finding fairways more. But like when it gets tougher.
Speaker 1: Is that a good strategy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd probably push back that if you
Speaker 2: wanted to optimize for the pj tor, throttle back your
Speaker 2: speed a little bit like that. There's certain setups where
Speaker 2: that's true. But I think the the Rory the Xander
Speaker 2: high speed is going to work everywhere, and especially in majors.
Speaker 2: So if there was a golfer advice, I want to
Speaker 2: do like that, Sorry.
Speaker 1: He doesn't. He doesn't start with like a high like.
Speaker 1: I don't think Cepstraca is ever going to like be
Speaker 1: like a one to eighty five guy, even if he's said.
Speaker 2: It without having his numbers up in front of me.
Speaker 2: I think he's probably living in the one seventy three
Speaker 2: to like one seventy six range, which isn't super slow,
Speaker 2: but it's not super fast like one eighty is when
Speaker 2: you start to get too fast. He's not there. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't if a golfer said, I want to play
Speaker 2: really well in PGA Tour events, but not I don't
Speaker 2: care as much about majors. I don't think throttling back
Speaker 2: the speed is necessarily a good strategy, but I hear
Speaker 2: you that that's probably explaining some of the lack of
Speaker 2: major championship results. But he does have two top tens
Speaker 2: in majors, they just haven't come in the last couple
Speaker 2: of years. It was in twenty twenty three. He's been
Speaker 2: in contention in big events. He won the truest he
Speaker 2: was in. He almost won that TPC south Wind the
Speaker 2: Zalatorus playoffs. So I think Cepstraca is a top twenty
Speaker 2: player in the world pretty pretty clearly and could be
Speaker 2: a shining light for Europe in September. But if you're
Speaker 2: making me take Hovland off the board, I'll say Cepstraca
Speaker 2: has been the most impressive non top guy.
Speaker 1: Win the the Open was he I think he was
Speaker 1: the only one that really ran outside. I mean, Rom
Speaker 1: was just too far back, but Sepp was the one
Speaker 1: that he just made a few to make mistakes. He
Speaker 1: was really impressive in that Harmon Open. When all right,
Speaker 1: what's what's your last one.
Speaker 2: Who wins the Ryder Cup? And maybe this is a
Speaker 2: little crossover from the last couple of conversations we've had,
Speaker 2: but who's a golfer outside of the top couple names
Speaker 2: on each side? But if you had to bet, he's
Speaker 2: going to be a top player for one of the sides.
Speaker 2: Take out the Scottie, take out Ron Rory. Who wins
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup? And who's that player?
Speaker 1: All right? I think the Europeans are going to win. Okay,
Speaker 1: I feel like we're due for an away winner. I
Speaker 1: just like I think like one of the things, like you,
Speaker 1: when you looked at Beth Page on the on the schedule,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, that's just US centric because
Speaker 1: of the distance advantage that the US had a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. But if you start to look at
Speaker 1: the way the teams are shaping shaping up, like the
Speaker 1: European team is just bombers. And if you set up
Speaker 1: Beth Page with little rough, like because of the way
Speaker 1: Oakebond screens sit up so often, it is such an
Speaker 1: advantage to be a high long ball hitter. Beth Page,
Speaker 1: Beth Page, I mean, my bad. Because of the way
Speaker 1: beth Pages of greens sit up on ridges, it is
Speaker 1: so advantage. So if you set it up with thick rough,
Speaker 1: it is playing really into the long hitter's hands. If
Speaker 1: you set it up with short rough, it still plays
Speaker 1: into the long hitters' hands. Right then it becomes just
Speaker 1: like bomb Fest, And I just think about like the
Speaker 1: the Euros in some of the players they have like
Speaker 1: on that team, whether it's like the Hoyguard rastless Hoyguard
Speaker 1: really lots of speed, Ludwig you know, kills it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just have like a lot of guys. And then
Speaker 1: when you start to think about like the guys that
Speaker 1: aren't long hitters. You have Fleetwood who's been like a
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup awesome and Ryder Cup you can pair with
Speaker 1: anybody in the world because he drives it straight and
Speaker 1: iron play is extraordinary. Right. You have Stepstraka who kind
Speaker 1: of like he doesn't hit it super far we just
Speaker 1: talked about, hits a lot of faaraways, and he also
Speaker 1: hits the ball really high with his irons, like a
Speaker 1: good trait in there. And then you start to look
Speaker 1: at the at the American team and you're you're looking
Speaker 1: at the back half of the roster who's won this
Speaker 1: year on tour, and it's like, well, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like there just aren't the same type of players, right,
Speaker 1: They're like the people that have won as as the
Speaker 1: Americans this year have been like shorter players like Brian
Speaker 1: Harmon wins and and gets into the mix. Right, You've
Speaker 1: got Andrew Novak, who's you know, I know what your favorites,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily like a bomber, right he never played
Speaker 1: a Ryder Cup now, like you know, and Russell Henley's
Speaker 1: in the sixth spot. Like Russell Henley is a great player,
Speaker 1: but like a poof yeah and more cow is one
Speaker 1: of your like you're bona fide players and he's he's
Speaker 1: not hitting it very far. So like you've got this
Speaker 1: dynamic where like you're looking at the roster and a
Speaker 1: lot can change, but right now it just plays so
Speaker 1: into the European's hands as far as uh, you know,
Speaker 1: player that I think will play well that might surprise uh,
Speaker 1: you know of names like I mean, could Bob McIntyre
Speaker 1: be a name for the Europeans? Plenty of speed in
Speaker 1: the and the you know, if you think about like
Speaker 1: where he's won his tournaments. He won obviously the Scottish,
Speaker 1: he's won, the Canadian like that that Canadian Open set
Speaker 1: up last year that he won at was like thick rough. Uh,
Speaker 1: Like I think that could like translate well to to
Speaker 1: Beth Page if I was gonna if I was gonna
Speaker 1: pick you know one name, which is like an amazing
Speaker 1: thing because like you kind of thought last Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: that was gonna be a one and done Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: appearance for Bob McIntyre, but that would be one for
Speaker 1: the Europeans. For the Americans, Daniel Berger.
Speaker 2: Not a ton of speed there.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm struggling with, like my so my question
Speaker 1: to you was like, what's what's the best case scenario
Speaker 1: for the back half of the US Ryder Cup roster,
Speaker 1: because like, I think this is like a real, a
Speaker 1: real situation that they have on their hands right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the Team USA, the best thing they
Speaker 2: have working in their favor is time that you need
Speaker 2: some of these Europeans to regress a little bit and
Speaker 2: hope that some combination of Brooks, Koepka, Wyndham Clark, Sam
Speaker 2: Burns and Tony Finow show a little bit of something
Speaker 2: over the next couple months. Because, as you are alluding to,
Speaker 2: and it's one of the biggest stories of this Ryder Cup,
Speaker 2: Team USA doesn't have a ton of speed and there's
Speaker 2: not really a way to set up Beth Page where
Speaker 2: you mitigate speed too much. Like we're talking, I think
Speaker 2: it's sometimes relevant to call out the exact speed that
Speaker 2: we're talking, Like Brian Harmon and Russell Henley are like
Speaker 2: one sixty eight ball speed. They are really short and
Speaker 2: they they're great ball strikers and they can play. But
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of speed on the American side.
Speaker 2: As you've mentioned. Colin Morricala one of the top guys,
Speaker 2: like not a, He's like a one seventy four one
Speaker 2: seventy five ball speed guy. Russell Henley's gonna be on
Speaker 2: the team and he will be a fine contributor. But
Speaker 2: to me, the best possible outcome for Team USA this
Speaker 2: is being held in September. It'd be nice if it
Speaker 2: was held next, you know, July. Like they need as
Speaker 2: much time as possible. Obviously you can't delay the event.
Speaker 2: I'm not being serious about that, but you need Europe
Speaker 2: to cool off a little bit. Matt Fitzpatrick is sneaky
Speaker 2: rounding into form a little bit like Team Europe is
Speaker 2: taking shape and struck at all these guys. Hovelin's potentially
Speaker 2: a little rebound like Tyro Hatton's been a great player.
Speaker 2: So I'm with you. This feels like a coin flip.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you go further down the Europeans. Like
Speaker 1: someone who's been really impressive on the on the European
Speaker 1: tour is Rasmus Neerguard. Peterson nukes the ball like insanely long.
Speaker 1: Like all almost all of the young guys and the
Speaker 1: European young players are very long, right, they are, like
Speaker 1: you think about like both the hoy Guards, like the
Speaker 1: rookies that they can bring in are are just they're
Speaker 1: just different players than you know, like Nicholas nor Guard
Speaker 1: is another example very long.
Speaker 2: And your point Bobby McIntyre. He's been excellent off of
Speaker 2: the tea this year and he's got some speed.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean he's like he he touches like
Speaker 1: what one eighty If I.
Speaker 2: Close to it, yeah, I think he's like nine. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's right in there.
Speaker 1: That'd be at the at the top, which is crazy
Speaker 1: when you consider whistling straight where we're at. And the
Speaker 1: the big thing here is like unless brooks Kopka plays
Speaker 1: well and maybe both of the remaining majors, he's not
Speaker 1: gonna be on the team. But like this is what
Speaker 1: you're talking what you're talking about here is like really
Speaker 1: like a replacement there Dustin Johnson and Brooks Koepka in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one were prolific off the T players, like
Speaker 1: top of the top of the world off the T players,
Speaker 1: and effectively what's happened is like you're replacing them with
Speaker 1: players like Russell Henley and Brian Harmon.
Speaker 2: How nuts would things have to get for you to
Speaker 2: consider Dustin Johnson. He's playing horribly right now, will say
Speaker 2: he's been He's actually been pretty good off of the tea.
Speaker 2: I think there's almost no world where he ends up on.
Speaker 1: The team whatsoever. If he'd have to win, he has
Speaker 1: to win one of the two majors.
Speaker 2: If you finish his top five at Oakmont, are you
Speaker 2: like at least thinking about him as a fringe pick.
Speaker 1: I think he has to finish top five at the
Speaker 1: last Like to me, like where Brooks this is like
Speaker 1: the it's not like my bar. My bar would be
Speaker 1: different than the Keegan Bradley's bar because like they live
Speaker 1: like Bryson's in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Bryson is.
Speaker 1: Without a doubt in. But that's because he's literally contended
Speaker 1: in every major except for the Open Championship the last
Speaker 1: year and a half. Right, He's been in the mix.
Speaker 1: It's like that's what made it for for Brooks or
Speaker 1: DJ or anybody else from Live like Patrick Patrick Reed,
Speaker 1: who's won at beth Page without speed, Which is an
Speaker 1: important point. But for any of those players to be considered,
Speaker 1: they have to do insurmountably great things.
Speaker 2: I agree, but I mean the tm USA is pretty
Speaker 2: desperate on the back end. I'm not I would not
Speaker 2: be considering Dustin Johnson right now. But it's a little leak.
Speaker 2: It's it's gonna be a I don't mean to be disrespectful,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a Ben Griffin somebody of that type
Speaker 2: of name. I mean, speed may not even make the team.
Speaker 1: I mean, Speak's thirty first in points right.
Speaker 2: Now, and some of that's those are handout points from
Speaker 2: signature events, sponsor exemptions that he wouldn't even he'd be lower.
Speaker 1: So if we say Harris English, I think is like
Speaker 1: actually like a great player for that he should be.
Speaker 1: He's seventh to points. It's like we're in a world
Speaker 1: where Harris English is like, all right, that is like
Speaker 1: a guy that might be playing all five.
Speaker 2: And he's got some speed too, He's got that one
Speaker 2: seventy eight. He's a flusher.
Speaker 1: He is he is a flusher like Harris English, great
Speaker 1: player for them, but you know he won Tory, which
Speaker 1: is like I think, a pretty fair account for Bethpage.
Speaker 1: Novak is probably in the way he's been playing, not a.
Speaker 2: Ton of speed. We need he needs to do something
Speaker 2: in one of the next less let's.
Speaker 1: Just say we cut it at Matt McNeely at nine,
Speaker 1: who's a top ten player in the world in the
Speaker 1: FGR But but anyways, we've got then Harmon Spawn can't Lay,
Speaker 1: Griffin Berger, Feenal Hogy Glover Keegan, Wendy Clark, Billy Horsechell,
Speaker 1: who's unavailable. That's that gets you. It's twenty and it's
Speaker 1: like you're looking at that and it's like if I'm
Speaker 1: if I'm adjusting for course fit so can't lay. We're
Speaker 1: saying is in that's ten. Oh yeah, then you got
Speaker 1: two spots. You get two spots. It's got to be
Speaker 1: like fenw and Wyndham Clark.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can take Wyndam Clark right now.
Speaker 2: He's been absolutely horrific. I do think I think for
Speaker 2: now he's he's actually hitting it really well off the
Speaker 2: tee and is a good fit. He's been bad this year,
Speaker 2: pretty bad, But I would if my life depends on
Speaker 2: Team USA winning and that's how you should view it.
Speaker 2: As if you're the captain of TIMSA, I'd probably feel
Speaker 2: pretty good about having Tony Few on the team.
Speaker 1: I think I think, like there's no way you can
Speaker 1: go to beth Page without him because of like just
Speaker 1: the sheer course fit. You need a player like him
Speaker 1: with your current roster makeup.
Speaker 2: And I mean he has a great short game that
Speaker 2: the potter can be. Yeah, I think Tony Finow in
Speaker 2: most normal years should not be considered because his form
Speaker 2: is not anywhere close to what should be on the
Speaker 2: Team USA Ryder Cup. They should be stacked. But he's
Speaker 2: a legitimate consideration. I think Oakmont Andy is going to
Speaker 2: be an extremely important delineation between these Griffins. No Andrew Novak,
Speaker 2: Tony Fenow, some of those speef. Those guys have to
Speaker 2: make their case there.
Speaker 1: You know, you know who could be the savior for
Speaker 1: the US team.
Speaker 2: I think you're about You're about to throw out an
Speaker 2: insane name. Michael Block.
Speaker 1: He's number thirty four in the points. Cam Young perfect
Speaker 1: course fit.
Speaker 2: It is a good it is a good course fit
Speaker 2: for cam Yo.
Speaker 1: Never say no, just these just these to get hot
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks Oakmont.
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna win the right mortgage. So I don't
Speaker 2: know how much stock you put in the Rocket mortgage,
Speaker 2: but he is going to win the Rocket mortgage, maybe
Speaker 2: by five.
Speaker 1: So it's Cam dam he's got to beat down. He's
Speaker 1: gonna he's got to look down the barrel at Cam
Speaker 1: Davis and take him down.
Speaker 2: It'll be Ricky Fowler, Cam Davis and Cam Young split
Speaker 2: teas on Sunday at Rocket Mortgage. And I think Cam
Speaker 2: Young could make a good case.
Speaker 1: For anybody that hasn't listened to Joseph on this pod
Speaker 1: for the last couple of years. He has a a uh,
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, a fascination with with the
Speaker 1: potential of Cam Cam Davis and Cam uh uh Cam Young.
Speaker 2: So less less fascination over the last twelve months with
Speaker 2: Cam Young and a little bit more self pity. But
Speaker 2: I'm we might we might be back. We're showing some signs.
Speaker 1: All right, We'll leave you that. Joseph, What do you
Speaker 1: got coming this week for your weekly column? Everybody should
Speaker 1: be checking it out every Wednesday weekly Colin, you know
Speaker 1: the social charts. I always get people going more people
Speaker 1: should read read the column before commenting on the social chart.
Speaker 1: That's just you know, a really fun Internet exercise is
Speaker 1: to read the column and then read the comments on
Speaker 1: the on the social graph to see who didn't read
Speaker 1: the article and just like has made ridiculous comment.
Speaker 2: I kind of disagree, Andy, because part of what gets
Speaker 2: the social engagement is quick comments. You start to get
Speaker 2: the you know, the graphic starts to pick up steam
Speaker 2: and the algorithm. So I'm fine with people commenting right
Speaker 2: away and not necessarily reading the article. I hope they
Speaker 2: eventually read it. But if you want to fire a
Speaker 2: quick response to the graphic, I'm fine with that. I
Speaker 2: think this week I'm doing Team Europe how they're shaping
Speaker 2: up right now for the Ryder Cup, So appropriate with
Speaker 2: this conversation listing out the you know who's on the bubble,
Speaker 2: who are the locks? And then a little memorial talk
Speaker 2: huge fan of Mirfield Village, so there'll be a little
Speaker 2: bit in there about that.
Speaker 1: Who's your favorite on the bubble name for the Europeans.
Speaker 2: I think a provocative one might be somebody like a
Speaker 2: Lori Canter who will probably not make the team, but
Speaker 2: you know he's he's actually been like a very good
Speaker 2: golfer over the last year. I don't think he's been
Speaker 2: on the team. We could talk he should.
Speaker 1: Be the diplomat just because he's he's worked all sides,
Speaker 1: all sides of the of the of the the world
Speaker 1: of golf right now. He has an experience on the live,
Speaker 1: he's got experience on the europe to where he's playing
Speaker 1: a few PGA Tour events.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's seen.
Speaker 1: He's a diplomat. Uh No.
Speaker 2: True favorite, I would say is Matt Fitzpatrick, who has
Speaker 2: I think actually does model pretty well for Beth Page
Speaker 2: and the win at Brookline. They're not the same type
Speaker 2: of golf course, but I think Matt Fitzpatrick likes those
Speaker 2: types of setups honestly great.
Speaker 1: I think a pretty good comp uh is Brookline similar
Speaker 1: Like the way the greens sit up is really like
Speaker 1: the topography really good match for in the way that
Speaker 1: you know the greens a way better, way better greens
Speaker 1: at at Brookline than than Beth Page which are just
Speaker 1: kind of like flat circles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think bet Fitzpatrick will be a very to
Speaker 2: make a prediction, I think he will be a key
Speaker 2: contributor to Team Europe at Beth Page. So he's probably
Speaker 2: on the bubble right now. I don't think currently forty
Speaker 2: one in the point the points, whatever the points.
Speaker 1: He's behind Sammy Valmachi, ahead of Francesco Laporta, who sounds
Speaker 1: more like a Mets like utility player than a golfer.
Speaker 2: Fitzi's been hitting it really well off the tea this
Speaker 2: year actually, and his iron play has turned around a
Speaker 2: lot in the last his last four starts so or
Speaker 2: three starts really one of them iss Zouri Classic. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't count that, but three signature events or and the
Speaker 2: PGA Championship. Coming off of T eight at the PGA,
Speaker 2: think he will likely have a good week at Mirefield
Speaker 2: Village this week and kind of solidify why he should
Speaker 2: be on the team, not solidify, but make significant progress
Speaker 2: towards being on that team.
Speaker 1: All right, Joseph, we'll talk soon and look forward to
Speaker 1: reading your work on the Friday dot Com.
Speaker 2: Sounds good.
Speaker 3: Thanks Andy, all right, big thanks to PJ.
Speaker 1: Clark for editing and producing this podcast. Also big thanks
Speaker 1: to you guys for listening. Uh, we'll be back next week.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a big okemon the golf. We're going
Speaker 1: to focus in on the golf course, so I'm excited
Speaker 1: about that. That'll be next week's show. And as we
Speaker 1: we get we're right right there basically at the US
Speaker 1: Open again, and uh yeah, thank you and we'll talk soon.