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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio and

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Speaker 1: I love all things tech. And you know what, several

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Speaker 1: years ago, there was this concept that had been a

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Speaker 1: few years old at that point, but it it's sort

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Speaker 1: of went viral, and it was this whole solar roadway idea.

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Speaker 1: The idea of creating roads that are actually made up

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Speaker 1: of solar panels so that your roads could be collecting energy,

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Speaker 1: uh through the sun and you know, generating electricity and

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Speaker 1: also serving as roads. An interesting idea that seemed to

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Speaker 1: have a lot of potential issues with it, and so

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Speaker 1: at the time, we decided on tech Stuff to cover

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Speaker 1: that topic. So this episode originally published on June six,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen. It is called Solar Freaking Roadways

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Speaker 1: because that's kind of how it was being marketed at

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Speaker 1: the time. And well, let's just listen in. There's been

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Speaker 1: at least, if nothing else, a spirited debate both sides

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Speaker 1: of the debate Internet. Yeah, I know, both sides have

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Speaker 1: said debate, both the the proponents and the critics of

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Speaker 1: said solar roadways have been um at times passionate on

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Speaker 1: the internet. Yeah, that's kind of my gentle tiptoeing around

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Speaker 1: the edgeway of saying that there's been some fairly reactionary

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Speaker 1: responses on both sides. So we're gonna cut through all

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Speaker 1: that and tell you what's going on, hopefully, and I

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Speaker 1: you know, both of us are human people who also

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Speaker 1: have opinions about things, but we're going to try very

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Speaker 1: hard to be as objective as possible, and at the

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Speaker 1: end we will spew our opinions all over the podcast,

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Speaker 1: so fair warning. But at any rate, let's start off

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Speaker 1: with just some fun facts, fun facts about highways. Fun

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Speaker 1: facts about highways in the United States, to be specific. So,

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Speaker 1: the U. S Highway system has four million miles of roads,

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Speaker 1: which is about six million, four hundred thousand kilometers. Not

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Speaker 1: many people know this, but Lauren capable of doing miles

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Speaker 1: to kilometer conversions in her head on the fly. It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So that's according to the National Atlas of the United States. Now,

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Speaker 1: the interstate highway system accounts for only one percent of

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Speaker 1: all highway mileage, but carries twenty of total vehicle miles

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Speaker 1: of travel, which to me says, take the surface streets.

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Speaker 1: That's what I usually do. Yeah, at any rate. The highways,

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Speaker 1: although they are a great way of moving lots of

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Speaker 1: cars through very quickly. Uh that that's not you know,

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Speaker 1: more of the roads in our our country are surface streets.

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Speaker 1: They're not like these big interstates certainly, but but um,

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Speaker 1: but highways are are pretty They cover a wide surface

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Speaker 1: area none the less. The average the average width of

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Speaker 1: a highway lane is eleven feet, which is three point

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Speaker 1: three five Wow. It works on feet demeters too, It's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Okay. Uh So that means that if you

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Speaker 1: were to add up all the surface area that these

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Speaker 1: roads are covering in the United States, you would end

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Speaker 1: up somewhere around seventeen thousand, nine hundred twenty nine square

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Speaker 1: miles in the United States, which is forty six thousand,

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Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty six square kilometers. Crap. You can

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Speaker 1: do area too if you add another paved surfaces, so

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Speaker 1: we're talking about things like parking lots, sidewalks, bike lanes,

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing. It ends up being around twenty

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Speaker 1: five thousand square miles of area or thousand, seven hundred

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Speaker 1: square kilometers, right, So that's a lot of space a bunch,

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Speaker 1: and it's not an insignificant amount. It's doing an important job,

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Speaker 1: you know, because some people will say that's space, that's

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Speaker 1: not doing anything. No, it is, in fact doing something wasted.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly providing a service. Yes, it provides us a

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Speaker 1: route to get from one point to another point, specifically

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Speaker 1: in the vehicles that we all depend upon, without very

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Speaker 1: much ruining our our vehicles or our shoes or right.

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Speaker 1: It's it's made up of stuff. That is, it's got

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Speaker 1: traction to it. It's meant to be uh as efficient

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Speaker 1: a system as we can really do with with a

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Speaker 1: lot of passive systems. Like it's a very passive system, yes,

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Speaker 1: and but it's relatively inexpensive and pretty functional. But what

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Speaker 1: would happen if we could make this stuff do double duty?

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Speaker 1: What if instead of just being a way, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the platform upon which our vehicles travel, it could

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Speaker 1: also help generate energy and offset our need for generating

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Speaker 1: power in other ways. What if we could perhaps turn

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Speaker 1: the entire road system of the United States into a

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Speaker 1: giant solar farm. In other words, we replaced the roads

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Speaker 1: with solar panels, were still driving on them, but now

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Speaker 1: not only are we all that flat space is being

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Speaker 1: put to further use, or even hilly space, well relatively

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Speaker 1: flat space. Yeah, so that's where the idea of solar

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Speaker 1: roadways kicked in. Uh. And then to get specific, you

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Speaker 1: have a husband and wife team, Scott and Julie Brussa,

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Speaker 1: who are the the people behind solar roadways, right, Scott

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Speaker 1: is by trade an electrical engineer and Julie as a counselor.

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Speaker 1: And apparently was Julie's idea to put solar panels on roads,

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Speaker 1: that was her. She just said. You know, she and

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Speaker 1: her husband were having a discussion about climate change, about

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Speaker 1: human human contributions to climate change, about pollution, about the

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Speaker 1: fact that a lot of that pollution comes from our

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Speaker 1: dependence upon fossil fuels, and she said, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I realized that solar panel farms like these are not

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Speaker 1: the most efficient ways of getting energy. We've talked about

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Speaker 1: that on this show before. That even if you're talking

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Speaker 1: like state of the art, top of the line laboratory conditions,

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Speaker 1: at most you're hitting under ideal conditions. Reality, it's closer

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Speaker 1: to under good conditions and probably less than that for

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Speaker 1: your average performance. So you're losing a lot of the

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Speaker 1: energy that's hitting those panels, and you're not necessarily generating

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Speaker 1: a lot of electricity from the energy you're bringing in.

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Speaker 1: But what if we had a lot of them? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what if we were able to instead of clearing out

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Speaker 1: land in order to make a solar farm, what if

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Speaker 1: we were able to utilize that space, these wide open

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Speaker 1: spaces that we already have, you know, using robust panels

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Speaker 1: that can withstand the traffic. Right, and so Scott in

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Speaker 1: his various videos, there are several videos that Scott Brussaw

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Speaker 1: is in where he talks about this idea, said that

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Speaker 1: he initially kind of laughed at the idea, and then

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Speaker 1: he thought, well, how would I, as an engineer, how

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Speaker 1: would I go about trying to make a practical way

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Speaker 1: of implementing her solution? And that was the way solar

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Speaker 1: roadways were born. This was not no this you may

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Speaker 1: have only just heard about this, but they've been working

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Speaker 1: on this since the mid two thousand's, so I believe

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. Yeah, So they started brainstorming these

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Speaker 1: different ways they came up with this, uh, this solar

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Speaker 1: panel roadway approach. But it does mean that they had

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Speaker 1: to think of other stuff besides and they also went

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Speaker 1: beyond just solar panels right oh right, you know they're

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Speaker 1: they're not just there to collect energy. They would also

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Speaker 1: have you know, microprocessors in them and l ed s

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Speaker 1: which would allow you to uh, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: change the lanes and on a highway based on traffic patterns,

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Speaker 1: or move parking spots around in a parking lot. Right

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Speaker 1: Like So, for example, the street that is near my

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Speaker 1: neighborhood is a three lane road and it has two

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Speaker 1: reversible or has a reversible lane in the center. Reversible

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Speaker 1: lanes mean that some parts of a day, traffic is

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Speaker 1: allowed to go in one direction, and in another part

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Speaker 1: of the day traffic is allowed to go in the

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Speaker 1: opposite direction. And they just end up designating that with

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Speaker 1: there's a sign that hangs above the road that either

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Speaker 1: it gives you an arrow saying yes you can drive

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Speaker 1: in this lane, sagred X that says please don't do that.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I cannot tell you how many times

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Speaker 1: have encountered people who absolutely have no idea how reversible

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Speaker 1: lanes work. They treat it like it's a turning lane.

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Speaker 1: They're a little bit terrifying. It is absolutely terrifying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: driving in the center lane on that road is something

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Speaker 1: of a crap shoot at any rate. Using this approach,

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Speaker 1: you could actually have the information on the road itself.

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Speaker 1: Those led lights could spell out which lanes were permissible

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Speaker 1: to use during what parts of the day, so you

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Speaker 1: could change it on the fly, responding to dynamic condition.

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Speaker 1: So if traffic is suddenly very heavy coming from one

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Speaker 1: direction versus the other, you could change the lanes in

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Speaker 1: a safe way. Or like you said, you could do

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Speaker 1: things like in a parking lot, designate different types of spaces.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps if you were expecting to have a big motorcycle convention,

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Speaker 1: like some parts of the country do, then you could

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Speaker 1: end up having a bunch of motorcycle parking spots as

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Speaker 1: opposed to full sized car spots that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because it means you could change things

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Speaker 1: based upon whatever conditions were at the time. That's not

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Speaker 1: the only thing these could do though. Oh yeah. They

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Speaker 1: also proposed to incorporate heating elements so that you could

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Speaker 1: melt any kind of any kind of ice or snow

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Speaker 1: on the roadway, thus being able to prevent terrible, terrible

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Speaker 1: driving conditions, right, and you wouldn't have to use a

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Speaker 1: plow or actually you can't use a plow on one

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Speaker 1: of these roads, because it did you'd end up scraping

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Speaker 1: the glass glass covering. Yeah. Um. But but also um

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Speaker 1: providing providing an infrastructure for carrying that collected energy collected

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Speaker 1: energy and big technical quotation marks UM to to get

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Speaker 1: it to places that need it. So, in other words,

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Speaker 1: there would be a kind of a corridor that would

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Speaker 1: run alongside the road which would help deal with the

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Speaker 1: runoff from that aforementioned snow and ice. Yes, yes, you

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Speaker 1: would have two parts of that corridor. One part would

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Speaker 1: be a storm drain which would even include perhaps a

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Speaker 1: filtration system and pumps to move water to where it

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Speaker 1: might actually be used. So you could in theory treat

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Speaker 1: the water on site on the road essentially as as

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Speaker 1: it's running off, you can treat it so it ends

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Speaker 1: up being useful, and then pump it someplace like an

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Speaker 1: aquifer or for agricultural purposes, or to another water treatment

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Speaker 1: facility if the water is particularly and I think that's

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Speaker 1: the technical term. And then you could have the cable corridor,

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Speaker 1: which would allow you to put power cables so that

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Speaker 1: it could uh transmit the collected energy to some other system.

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Speaker 1: All of this. By the way, it sounds like we're

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Speaker 1: being vague, it's because right now the team is really

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Speaker 1: focusing on the solar panel part and and all of

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Speaker 1: this is is kind of interesting. Other ideas that they're

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Speaker 1: drawing into it. UM also reaching further out into the future,

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Speaker 1: incorporating a lot more of of smart elements to the

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Speaker 1: roadways of you know, doing things like if, um, if

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Speaker 1: a kid is crossing the street, having the street interact

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Speaker 1: with your car to tell you there's a kid up there,

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Speaker 1: don't hit that kid, right, And maybe even the part

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Speaker 1: of the street the kid is on lights up so

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Speaker 1: you can see that and that to see it visibly, right, So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would have to have some sort of pressure sensors

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Speaker 1: in there that that would somehow be able to differentiate

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Speaker 1: when a kid is on there versus say someone on

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Speaker 1: a bike or car or you know. But we're getting

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Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves, right right. But you know, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of interesting stuff like that is stuff that they talk

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Speaker 1: about in their promotional material. Yeah, and they obviously, in

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Speaker 1: order to get support because it was an Indigo go campaign,

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Speaker 1: which means it's crowdfunded, you know, they were asking people

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Speaker 1: to to contribute money to this project so that they

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Speaker 1: could test the feasibility of it. Keep in mind, this

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Speaker 1: is to test the feasibility, not saying that this is

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Speaker 1: going to to launch them into implementing this on a

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Speaker 1: wide scale. We'll get into more about that in a second,

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Speaker 1: but um, it also uh was a way of saying, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: we can improve our infrastructure in multiple ways. If there

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Speaker 1: is a damage a damaged panel, someone could pop out there,

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Speaker 1: knock a panel out, put a new panel in, and

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Speaker 1: they're done. It's none of this put a big sheet

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Speaker 1: of metal over a pothole business that happens in Atlanta

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Speaker 1: all the time. Or that we'd be able to take

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Speaker 1: all the power cables and telephone cables and take them

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Speaker 1: off of suspended lines and bury them within this roadway, yeah,

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Speaker 1: in that cable corridor, which means that when you have

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Speaker 1: really bad weather, you don't have to worry about those

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Speaker 1: power lines being snapped by ice or something and then

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Speaker 1: becoming a hazard to anyone who happens be walking by. Now,

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Speaker 1: in order to go from this sort of brainstorming proposal

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Speaker 1: idea to reality, they they noticed that there were some

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Speaker 1: pretty significant challenges. Sure, Um, you know, first of all,

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Speaker 1: you photovolt takes are very delicate, so you're going to

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Speaker 1: need a really strong surface in order to protect them

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Speaker 1: from you know, trucks exactly. Yeah, you have to have

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Speaker 1: something that was going to keep them from breaking under

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Speaker 1: the the consistent pressure they would be under from vehicles

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Speaker 1: running over them. But the early if you're talking about

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Speaker 1: like a highway where you've got hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: vehicles in any given month, and some of those being

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Speaker 1: incredibly heavy, like trucks pulling huge amounts of cargo, you've

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Speaker 1: got to have something that's gonna withstand that kind of

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Speaker 1: that kind of wear and tear, right in order to

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Speaker 1: accomplish this, and also you know, have it be transparent

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Speaker 1: so that it can also collect sunlight. Yea, As it

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Speaker 1: turns out, if you made it really super strong but

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Speaker 1: it was opaque, the solar panel part has has problems,

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Speaker 1: right um, tempered glass they figured is the best way

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Speaker 1: to do this. The problem one of the problems with

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Speaker 1: tempered glass is that you can't really paint on it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that's why they came up with the idea of

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Speaker 1: using the l e eds to demonstrate light. That meant

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Speaker 1: that they were going to have to pick some pretty

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Speaker 1: bright L E. D s. We'll talk about that when

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Speaker 1: we get to the criticisms part. Sure, Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: then also they wanted to make sure that the light

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Speaker 1: was going to pass cleanly through that glass. The glass

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Speaker 1: needs to be clear. It can't be you know, if

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Speaker 1: if you have a colored glass, that that's telling you

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Speaker 1: immediately that there are certain ways that are never going

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Speaker 1: to get there. Yeah, they're not going to go through

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Speaker 1: necessarily reflecting. So you want that to be clear glass,

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Speaker 1: and it needs to be arranged in a way that

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Speaker 1: the physical arrangement of any kind of coding on top

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Speaker 1: of photo takes is going to have very much to

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Speaker 1: do with the way that light refracts and and reflects

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Speaker 1: down through it. Yeah, So it's that ends up affecting

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Speaker 1: the efficiency of that particular solar panel. They said that

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Speaker 1: these solar panels would be around fifteen percent efficient, although

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Speaker 1: as far as I know, no independent testing has been

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Speaker 1: done of the solar panels, not that I'm aware of,

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Speaker 1: although I do currently only have a very small test patch.

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Speaker 1: That's uh yeah, speaking of I mean, you know, the

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Speaker 1: road systems, like Jonathan talked about at the top of

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Speaker 1: the show, are big you've got a lot of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so one of the big challenges that they really

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Speaker 1: haven't addressed yet. Uh. You know, they're looking at it

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Speaker 1: from the positive perspective, which I totally understand. They're so like,

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Speaker 1: look at this, this is going to create millions of jobs.

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Speaker 1: But millions of jobs means you have to pay those people. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and it also means that you're going to run into

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Speaker 1: a lot of equipment costs and manufacturing costs, materials. What

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Speaker 1: are you going to do while you are retrofitting a highway?

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Speaker 1: You know, what what exactly is going to take place

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Speaker 1: with this? Because we don't even know what their proposal

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Speaker 1: is for the replacement part. We don't know doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that they're going to play solar panels on top of

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Speaker 1: pre existing infrastructure. Are we going to have to dig

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Speaker 1: up all of the roads right? What where are people

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Speaker 1: going to drive while that's going on? You know, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of questions here that are going to

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Speaker 1: be a big challenges. And then of course, you know

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Speaker 1: there's cost, like we kind of just said, attached to

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Speaker 1: all of this, not only logistical costs, but very real

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Speaker 1: money dollar costs, or as very real as money, and

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Speaker 1: dollars ever, are right, that's an entirely different conversation that

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Speaker 1: we've also had. But uh yeah, I mean these are

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Speaker 1: things that they had to take into account, all right.

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Speaker 1: So the first prototype they built was a rectangular prototype.

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Speaker 1: It was our square really because it was it was

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Speaker 1: twelve feet by twelve feet that's about three point seven meters.

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Speaker 1: Like cow, you're on the ball today, all right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was this. It was really to test the idea

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Speaker 1: to to try the l e eds to create the

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Speaker 1: microprocessors that communicate with each other. They do so wirelessly

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Speaker 1: by the way. They do this uh kind of messaging

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Speaker 1: system between them. Um, the videos are pretty cool, like

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Speaker 1: he showed, Uh, I guess it's I assume it's his

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Speaker 1: daughter who stands on a panel that's separate from the

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Speaker 1: the huge solar panel, the twelve foot one, and when

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Speaker 1: she steps on it, it creates that flashing pattern on

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Speaker 1: the panel she steps on and then it spells out

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Speaker 1: slow down on the test panel, yeah, the giant one.

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Speaker 1: Then he also did things like created a maze, a

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Speaker 1: little like Pacman style maze that kids could run through

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Speaker 1: on this solar panel, which just really showing that the

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Speaker 1: L E D s could in fact show Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: could be all sorts of different patterns. Um. So that

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Speaker 1: was the first prototype. But that, of course is not

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Speaker 1: what the the current panel looks like. The current panels

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Speaker 1: are hexagonal in shape. I'll talk about that in a second. Now,

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Speaker 1: they decided to use glass, like we said, to be

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Speaker 1: the protective layer because it let's light pass through and

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Speaker 1: the compression strength is good. Now they keep on saying

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Speaker 1: it's somewhere between steel and stainless steel for compression. I

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, there are lots of different types of strength, right,

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Speaker 1: there's tensile strength, there's compressive strength, there's the you know

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Speaker 1: how how impact sort of strength. There's all these kind

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Speaker 1: of different approaches that you have to look at. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, they needed to find a glass that was

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Speaker 1: going to be shatter proof, which not that unusual. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've seen bulletproof glass, so it's not like this kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff doesn't exist. Sure, And and tempering glass is

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Speaker 1: they talk about it on the site and it's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that they get very right. I think,

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Speaker 1: and as far as I know about material science, that

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Speaker 1: that the tempering process does more or less that that

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Speaker 1: thing of of making things very strong and can also

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Speaker 1: involve um, you know, shatter resistant coatings or you know

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Speaker 1: the kind of glass that's used for example, in car

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Speaker 1: wind shields to uh that that will crumble rather than

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00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,360
Speaker 1: charting right right, you won't end up with these these

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Speaker 1: incredibly sharp shards of glass. You would have this sort

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Speaker 1: of glass rubble that would be a pain to clean up,

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00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 1: but not so dangerous, yes, less less dangerous. Um. And

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00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: they also needed to pick one that they could add

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Speaker 1: a texture to the top of so that vehicles could

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Speaker 1: have traction on them. That's kind of important because if

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Speaker 1: you would imagine just driving a vehicle over you know,

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Speaker 1: like a glass mirror, that would suck. Not to be fair,

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Speaker 1: rubber against glass is that you get some attraction. But

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Speaker 1: add water to that because I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: been outside, but sometimes it rains, and sometimes it rains

347
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Speaker 1: when you need to drive somewhere occasionally. So they were

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Speaker 1: looking at raising like they have actually another hexagonal pattern

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Speaker 1: on top of this giant hexagon that is repeated that

350
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Speaker 1: creates the texture so that it helps tires grip the road. Um.

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Speaker 1: They claimed that the gripping tests were outperformed asphalt. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how all those tests were conducted,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's the claim. Yeah. I also believe that

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Speaker 1: they claimed that the the pattern of the glass acts

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Speaker 1: like a like a prism to help direct the light

356
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Speaker 1: down into the photovoltaics beneath it. And as for the

357
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Speaker 1: l E d s, those are light emitting diodes. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that in the past. Diodes are very basic

359
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Speaker 1: electronic components, one of the basic components in electronics. So

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Speaker 1: anyone who happens to have worked with electronics, like if

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Speaker 1: you build a circuit, you've probably at some time or

362
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Speaker 1: another wired an LED to some sort of circuit. They

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00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: don't require a lot of energy. They can put off

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Speaker 1: a fairly bright light depending upon the LED that you're using. Um.

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Speaker 1: Scott Brusol also claims that the prism like nature of

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Speaker 1: those hexagons that Lauren was just talking belt also allow

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Speaker 1: the led s to project light out six different ways.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what that means. I think he's

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Speaker 1: talking about, um, you know, for for that pattern. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I see, I see capacity right right, Um, it's certainly interesting. Uh. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: then we got the heating element, right, which are you know,

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Speaker 1: similar to the wires that might run through your your

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Speaker 1: rear windshield. That that helps you defrost your car in

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Speaker 1: the winter. And uh, he says. Bruce Saw says that

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Speaker 1: the tests showed that heating the heating element works well

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Speaker 1: and can prevent snow and ice from forming on the

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Speaker 1: road itself. They show off a a single solar pedal

378
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Speaker 1: hexagon test photos yes, surrounded by others covered in snow

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Speaker 1: that have not had the heating element turned on. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then you would have some form of other sensors in

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Speaker 1: the in the panel, because you would have to have

382
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Speaker 1: them in order to detect pressure for the other element.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about where an animal or child or

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Speaker 1: something else is in the road, and thus the road

385
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 1: is to acting that and alerting the drivers to it

386
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: so that they can prepare themselves. Like I could see

387
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: this being really useful in lots of different ways. Like

388
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 1: in California, my wife and I went on a road

389
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Speaker 1: trip where we went down a road that frequently would

390
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Speaker 1: get covered up by by mud slides during the rain,

391
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Speaker 1: and it was pouring down rain, and sure enough we

392
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Speaker 1: had to skirt around a couple of mud slides. And

393
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Speaker 1: when you've got a precipitous drop to the Pacific Ocean

394
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Speaker 1: on the other side of it. That's somewhat of a

395
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Speaker 1: nerve wracking experience. We have more to say about solar

396
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: freaking roadways, but first let's take a quig break. Now.

397
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Speaker 1: I mentioned that the microprocessors had little Wi Fi elements

398
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: in them that allow them to talk to each other communication. Yeah,

399
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: the important part of that would be. One of the

400
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: important parts of that, besides sending the messages so that

401
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: the right message is are displayed to drivers so that

402
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: they're alerted to changing conditions, is that if a panel

403
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Speaker 1: were to malfunction, let's say it was hit by lightning

404
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: or some other thing damaged it. Maybe a person who

405
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: knows there some issues with that as well. But let's

406
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Speaker 1: say something damages a one of these hexagons. What's going

407
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: on in the microprocessors is that they're constantly sending out

408
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: little signals to each other. Hey are you there? Oh

409
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: you're there? Hey are you there? Oh you're there. So

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00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: if one of them stops responding, then the rest can

411
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: send a message down the line to get a technician

412
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: out there to replace that guy. Yeah, so the technician

413
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: gets a message saying, hey, this one panel that's at

414
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Speaker 1: mile marker seventy three. It's the third one over from

415
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: the edge of the road needs to be replaced. They

416
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: can go out there. Uh, you know, the lane itself

417
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: can actually help direct traffic around the work area. The

418
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: worker could then pop the the dead panel out, put

419
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: a new panel in and program it with a little

420
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: handheld computer device and supposedly be in and out in

421
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: like ten minutes, and then take the broken solar panel

422
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: back for repairs. Um. At least that's the way it's

423
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: being presented. Now. What they have actually created so far

424
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Speaker 1: is this little test trip that I mentioned earlier, a

425
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: sort of parking lot outside of their workshop. It's twelve

426
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: ft wide by thirty six ft long, which is uh,

427
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: I got three point seven by eleven. It's not a contest. Um.

428
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: I've been looking ahead at those notes all podcasts long

429
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: and doing calculations in my head. Uh. This little this

430
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: little test strip is is meant to be a test trip.

431
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: But it's a little environment for them to work out

432
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: every everything from you know, from the stress tests to

433
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: the electronic components functionality, making sure the heating elements are working,

434
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: make sure the LEDs work. They've driven a smallish tractor

435
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: across it, to kind of demonstrate that it can withstand

436
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: the pressure of a vehicle. But that's it is a

437
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: smalleish tractor and it is not moving very quickly. That's

438
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: not to say that they haven't done other tests, oh certainly. Yeah,

439
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean they've been working on this project. They in

440
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: fact received a few grants from the Department of Transportation

441
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: and specifically the Federal Highway Administrations to I think along

442
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: the lines of of like seven hundred and fifty thousand,

443
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: and then their Indigo, their indiego Go project funded right right,

444
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: so than funded. Yeah, and let's talk about that Indiego

445
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: Go campaign. Okay. So, so, like, like we said, this

446
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: project has been going on since about two thousand six,

447
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: but it really went viral in when they opened up

448
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: this Indie Go Go campaign on April one, which is

449
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: the day before Earth Day, which is very clever marketing.

450
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: And uh. They talked all about what this potential project

451
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: could do in an ideal implementation it. Their tagline um,

452
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: which which I think is telling about many things about

453
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: the project is i'll quote quote it for you guys,

454
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: solar panels that you can drive, park and walk on.

455
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: They melt snow and cut greenhouse gases by question mark,

456
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point triple and taro bang. Yes, Yeah,

457
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: that's pretty incredible. Yeah, they they've extended the campaign right

458
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: as of this recording. We are recording this show on June,

459
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: they have more than doubled their campaign goal of a

460
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: million bucks and still have nine days left. So they've

461
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: successfully funded, more than successful. And um, so what was that?

462
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: What's that million dollars for? Exactly? Well, although the campaign

463
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: page does suggest all of these huge possibilities for the

464
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: future that we talked about earlier on in the show,

465
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: that million dollars is really just for hiring an initial

466
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: team of engineers and I quote to help us make

467
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: a few needed tweaks in our product and streamline our

468
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: process so that we could go from prototype to production.

469
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: And they were hoping to go into production by the

470
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: end of That's that's ambitious. Yeah, that that's one way

471
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: of putting it. That is incredibly ambitious because, uh, you know,

472
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: even if they produce, they then have to have a

473
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: place to put them. Um, but we'll we'll talk more

474
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: about that in a second. Yes, Um, so that this

475
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: this campaign really went viral with the help of a

476
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: particular video. At the very beginning of this podcast, I

477
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: talked about solar Freaking Roadways. Roadway Roadways. Yeah. It was

478
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: produced by the team and repeatedly uses the phrase solar

479
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: freaking roadways. You probably have seen it if you, I know,

480
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: it went viral on Facebook. I saw it posted by

481
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of my friends. I thought on on Tumblr

482
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: and Twitter as well. Um, and it has in fact

483
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: set an Indigogo record for the number of individual backers

484
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: attached to a single project. Currently it is sitting at

485
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: forty thousand, three d and seven, which in metric is

486
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: a lot. It's the same it's the same number, same number.

487
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: But you know, but but they they are all based

488
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: on a specific person who's kept in a vault in Switzerland. Uh.

489
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: Moving on to the critics, or, as some have termed them,

490
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: the haters. So here's the thing. You put any idea

491
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: up online, people are going to respond to it in

492
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: multiple ways some people. Some people will likely be supportive,

493
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: and some people will be critical, not not necessarily in

494
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: an effort to be mean or nasty, although that often

495
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: happens to that's frequently a side effect. Yeah, but sometimes

496
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: it's just to say, um, hang on. So there have

497
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: been multiple responses to this video in the are critical

498
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: in nature, and again some of them are are more

499
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: kind of measured and saying I do not understand how

500
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: they are going to achieve X. Some of them are

501
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: a little more direct, saying there's no way they could

502
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: possibly achieve X, and some of them are like, you

503
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: are stupid if you think you can achieve X, You're stupid,

504
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: and your face is stupid, and your cat is stupid.

505
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Mom is stupid. Yeah. Yeah, So, at any rate, we

506
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about some of the criticisms or more

507
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: of those former reasonable ones, less the cat thing. Some

508
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: of them got a little snarky, and we might as well.

509
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: But at any rate, there's a website called gelot Nick

510
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: that sent a request to another electrical engineer. Because you

511
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: may remember we said Scott Brusso's an electrical engineer. This

512
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: electrical engineer is named David David Forbes, so this is

513
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about a person named Forbes, not the magazine, sure,

514
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: and they asked them to evaluate this solar roadways proposal,

515
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: and Forbes listed some some concerns and said that the

516
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: campaign was quote so flawed that I don't know where

517
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: to start end quote. Specifically, he pointed out the problem

518
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: with costs. Uh that installation time would be incredible, and

519
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: thus the expense for paying people to install all of

520
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: these panels into roads would also be incredible. Said that

521
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: laying an asphalt road pretty much involves using an enormous

522
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: machine that does all the work for you. You just

523
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: walk along to make sure the machine is still working properly.

524
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: But this would take really intensive human labor. Yeah, because

525
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: laying down these hexagonal panels would be more of a

526
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: human job less than a machine job. So if you're

527
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: just talking about replacing one road, I mean just think

528
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: of a typical road in your area, and imagine having

529
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: to replace all of that panel by panel with these

530
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: hexagonal panels. There are a couple of feet across, less

531
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: than a meter across, and you you have to replace

532
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: the whole thing. That's significant, And we're talking about potentially,

533
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: like if you're if you're taking the video at face value,

534
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: eventually replacing all roads that's and that's enormous, And that

535
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: also includes the time it takes to either prep the

536
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: existing road surface or to tear it, tear it right up.

537
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: I would imagine you would have to tear it up.

538
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine just putting the panels on top of it,

539
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: because where where are the power? Where's the power coming

540
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: out of? Like, if if these solar panels are collecting energy,

541
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: how do you get that energy from the solar panel

542
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: to anything else that would actually be useful? And they

543
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: were also talking so much about about the trenching that

544
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: the cable trenches and all in the runoff trenches and

545
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Now, if somehow the hexagonal

546
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: panels interlock so that they can become kind of a

547
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: channel for power, I suppose you could end up having

548
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: just one side of it, be the the section that

549
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: connects to a larger cable, and then the panels in

550
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: that row would all feed. But I don't know that

551
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: that's the case, because certainly the signals that's sending back

552
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: and forth are through this wireless microprocessor. It's not a

553
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: circuit that's connected by edge to edge contact, So I

554
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: don't think that's actually how it's happening, Which means you

555
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: have to wire each individual panel to your conduit that

556
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: is taking the energy from the panel and sending it

557
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: to wherever it needs to go. All right, that's before

558
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: you even get to the point of where does the

559
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: power go? Because you can't just magically make it go

560
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: to where it needs to be. You actually have to

561
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: build the infrastructure in their little transmission stations to collect

562
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: that power and send it on and change the the

563
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: the voltage of it. I mean, that's why we have transformers,

564
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: because we need to be able to you know, there's

565
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: lots of problems, and then there's the current issue voltage

566
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: versus current lots of problems there um. That not to

567
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: say that it's insurmountable amountable or that they don't have

568
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: answers to those those questions, but I haven't seen them.

569
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: I have not either, So that would mean that you

570
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: have to rip up all that road. So first you

571
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: gotta rip up the road before you even do anything else.

572
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: Then you have to prepare the ground that you've just

573
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: ripped up for laying the solar panels down. And then

574
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: you have to lay the solar panels down. So this

575
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: is a monumental job. Um. Also that that expense issue,

576
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, solar panels just from a material's cost,

577
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: just the silicone in them, silicon silicon, just the silicon

578
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: in them is really expensive. Also, l ed s also glass,

579
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: all of these things. I mean, you're you're talking about

580
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand square miles of material. Ultimately you're talking

581
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: about so just twenty square miles of glass would be expensive.

582
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: And yes, it gets less expensive per unit when you're

583
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: buying in volume in bulk. But but but even so,

584
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: that expense can only go down so far before you

585
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: finally have hit at cost. And it's never going to

586
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: be less than that certainly, So there's that issue. Um.

587
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: And then Forbes brought up an interesting warning about about

588
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: the possibility if you have the complex electronics. Yes, what

589
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: happens if someone whimsically decides to mess mess with that? Yeah,

590
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: let's say that you have these microprocessors all communicating wirelessly

591
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: to each other. What happens if a hacker is able

592
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: to manipulate that system and is able to insert some

593
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: malicious commands so that a command that normally would say

594
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: slow down doesn't show up, or they end up changing

595
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: all the lanes, or they change the lanes looking like

596
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: like that reversible lane example is telling you what if

597
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: from both sides of travel, they make it look like

598
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: that center lane is the appropriate lane. That's bad times.

599
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: That's bad times. That's that's crash times, not good times.

600
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 1: So I mean whether or not that particular system would

601
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: be easy to hack or not easy to hack, I

602
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: guarantee you someone would try to do it. And eventually,

603
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: if someone is determined enough, they would be able to

604
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: do something if nothing else may be disrupted. So you

605
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: just have a big blank slate that you're driving on

606
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: that alone would be difficult because you don't have any

607
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: lanes at all, and then you just have an enormous

608
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: wide road to be like, be like our highway system

609
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: turned into all those country lanes I went on in

610
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: Ireland where you're like, I don't even know if this

611
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: is for two way traffic or this is a thing

612
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: that Forbes did not bring up that that that I

613
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: remember seeing. But but what if you just got a

614
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: blue screen? Yeah, yeah, if essentially crash and but now

615
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: presumably if you had maybe just one crash, you would

616
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: get that you know, the person or the entity that

617
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: overseasian and the whole thing. But if you're talking about

618
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: something that ends up perhaps affecting a wide stretch of road,

619
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: then you've got some serious problems. And then yeah, sending

620
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: someone out to reset a single panel, that's and then

621
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: making sure that person is safe while they are doing it.

622
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's this is not necessarily easy. Other critics

623
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: brought up lots of other concerns, like traction, what happens

624
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: when the glass gets wet um. Some people talked about

625
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: the glasses resilience to scratches. So you know, it's not

626
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: just rubber that's having those roads. It's dirt and sand

627
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: and weird gritty particles in the you know, claws of

628
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: animals whatever, So that ends up getting up ends up

629
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: getting rubbed in as the as the tires go over

630
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: the road. Sand especially could cause scratches and the glass

631
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: because sand is made of glass yep, and ends up

632
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: possibly making it more opaque, which means that less light

633
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: can actually get through or at the very least bouncing

634
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: around light in ways that are not ideal to getting

635
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: it down to the photovoltaic layers. So then your your

636
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: energy collection becomes less efficient. Keep in mind that one

637
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: of the big claims we didn't really mention this, but

638
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: that one of the big claims of this is that

639
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: if this were deployed throughout the entire United States and

640
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: did replace all those paved areas we had talked about

641
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: According to the claim, we would be producing three times

642
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: the amount of energy we currently consume. So that's not

643
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: to say that we would suddenly be in a energy

644
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: surplus and we'd have more energy than we need, because

645
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: as we've all seen, we'll we'll use that surplus. We

646
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: find ways we don't. We don't suddenly have a bounty.

647
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: We just have a larger pool that we work in

648
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: at any rate. Other u other criticisms were that LED

649
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: visibility visibility in bright light might be an issue. There's

650
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: there's debate on this because it depends on how how

651
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: it's implemented. Yeah, I feel like this is I mean,

652
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: it's certainly a concern, you know, because you know, but

653
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: we've we've got signs and traffic signals that use L

654
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 1: E D s, but that's usually in a perpendicular plane

655
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: to where sunlight's coming down. If it's if the sun's

656
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: directly overhead and it's a really bright day, there is

657
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: some question about whether or not the L E ED

658
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: lanes would be visible and night would be great. Oh,

659
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: it would be perfect at night bright sunlight situation during

660
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: the day unless those prisms, uh that that Scott was

661
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: talking about are really very well aligned. Yeah, I can

662
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: see how direct the lights so that you can actually

663
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: see it even in the brightest of sunlight. It's possible.

664
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: I just haven't seen any demonstration of it. By the way,

665
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: we should also mention, uh, their workshop is in Idaho,

666
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: about an hour from the border from Canada, so their

667
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: sunlight conditions are slightly different than say here in Georgia. Sure,

668
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: but they also get a lot more snow. Uh, So

669
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: there's that as well. Then there's the question, speaking of

670
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: snow and ice, about is that really the most efficient

671
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: way to melt it, to to use a heating element too,

672
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: Is that or does it mean that you're actually using

673
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: more energy to get rid of that snow and ice

674
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: than you would if you were to say, use salt

675
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: trucks and plows and uh, you know, it all depends

676
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: on how much snow there is, how cold it is. Um.

677
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: It also keep in mind that when it's snowing, there's

678
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: a problem when you're using a solar panel based techn

679
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: knowledge because in the middle of a snowstorm, you're not

680
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: getting as much sun he would during other times. Right, Yeah,

681
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: any sun probably, Yeah, the sunlight factors is kind of

682
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: a non factor in that case not to mention like

683
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: if it snows at night, you know, then you get

684
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: the double problem. So you need to power this heating

685
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: system in some way, and that means you would be

686
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: pumping power from back in. So then you have the

687
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: problem of Now, grant, if the United States had one

688
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: giant smart grid where power could route from any part

689
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: of the United States to any other part of the

690
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: United States at will, that would be a non issue.

691
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: That is not how it works at all. We have

692
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: regional power grids and most of them are working at capacity. Yeah,

693
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: and there are definitely some remote areas that would have

694
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: a huge problem with this kind of thing under our

695
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: current infrastructure. Yea, So that is a real issue there. Also,

696
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: there's just the question of if it's made up of tiles,

697
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: that means you do have edges. Yeah, these these places

698
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: where tiles meet up against each other. So there's the

699
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: possibility of stuff getting between those edges and disrupting the

700
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: the road system that way. For instance, just water that's freezing.

701
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: And sure, maybe the water on the surface of the

702
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: tiles doesn't freeze because it's heated, but maybe water getting

703
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: between tiles could freeze and then expand and push these

704
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: tiles apart, or you know, the ground moves. Yeah, the

705
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: ground can change. I mean, ground can change for lots

706
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: of reasons, not just earthquakes. Oh yeah, yeah, you know,

707
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: if if trees or other plants are growing nearby, root

708
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: systems can disrupt the shape of a flat otherwise flat

709
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 1: ground surface. Anyone who's walked along any sidewalk that's made

710
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: up of these panels has probably seen cracks in the sidewalk,

711
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: which comes from the movements and the ground, and thus

712
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 1: the movements of the the material itself. You know, material

713
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: can expand and contract as the heat changes, right, Oh, certainly.

714
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, furthermore, any time it rains, the

715
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: ground is changing dynamically with that rainfall. No matter how

716
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: well you seeal a roadway off, it's never going to

717
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: be completely perfec It's time for another quick break and

718
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: we'll be back to close out the solar roadways story

719
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: as at least as far as June six thousand fourteen. Yeah,

720
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: you've got the hardness of glass versus the softness of asphalt.

721
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: Asphalt bends with your car as you're driving over it,

722
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: and this is intrinsic to the way that people design

723
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: cars by The Way Car Stuff is about to record

724
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: an episode about solar roadways. It should be publishing this week,

725
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: right around the same time that this episode publishes, so well, well,

726
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: we'll try to remember to drop a link out to

727
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: it on social I hope that this is one of

728
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: the things that they're going to talk about, because I

729
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: find I'm a little bit clueless about how that entire

730
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: thing works, and I'm interested to hear more about it. Well,

731
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: on top of that, I mean, when you think about it,

732
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: the the solar panels all that weight. Sure you've got

733
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: the glass that's protecting the solar panel technology, but it's

734
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: not like the glass just absorbs all the force. That

735
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: force still is going to be going through the solar

736
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: panel and then into the base of the solar panel. Uh,

737
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: depending upon what the ground is beneath it. I don't

738
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how it's able to do this without

739
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: damaging the solar panel material. Uh if that could also

740
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: create wiggle room. I mean you're talking about tiles, right,

741
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: So if you're driving over the edge of a tile,

742
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: like you imagine that the pressure it's not constantly pressing

743
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: straight down on the tile, it's moving across the tile

744
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: like like a rolling pin across the dough. If you've

745
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: ever tried to roll out cookie dough, you know that

746
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: it's actually a little bit of work to get that

747
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: surface flat. And even because you're working with a curved surface,

748
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: that's going to affect things slightly differently, so you could

749
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: end up creating UH like tiles could be wiggling at

750
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: the edges and then they could become uneven. If they

751
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: become uneven, then you have other edges that are sticking

752
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: up higher than the one next to it, So then

753
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: it becomes a bumpy surface to drive on, perhaps even

754
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,479
Speaker 1: a dangerous one. Share. These are all criticisms that people

755
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: have made UH that you know, it doesn't mean that

756
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: the implementation won't somehow address them, but it's stuff that

757
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: hasn't hasn't really been covered so far by by the team. UM.

758
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: And a couple more before we transition away UM the

759
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: question there's a question of whether tires could leave tread

760
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: marks on the glass UH, adding to the opacity and

761
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: reducing the efficiency UM and also the loudness of a

762
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: car traveling at speed over glass. UM. One of the

763
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: one of the things that makes roads noisy is the

764
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: material that that road is made of um and any

765
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: kind of gaps or cracks, and the material tend to

766
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: produce a lot of noise. And so if you're working

767
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of tiles, uh, that's a lot

768
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: of gaps and cracks. And also just I mean, the

769
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: surface of the glass is different from asphalt, and so

770
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: it could it could hypothetically be very noisy. If you

771
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: ever have driven over a road that's made of brick,

772
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: for example, then you've probably heard the difference, not much

773
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: felt the difference, but but definitely heard the difference. And

774
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: now these these panels are larger than that, so you

775
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: would actually that would mean that the noise could be

776
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: even more irritating. Actually yeah, but uh yes, So all

777
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: of these materials problems. And then there is the price.

778
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: Of course, it is completely impossible to say exactly how

779
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: much the project would actually cost if undertaken so massively,

780
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, with all of the lowest bitter manufacturing and

781
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: installation costs that any government project has. But what we

782
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: do know is the cost of asphalt um, which is

783
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: variable at some three to fifteen bucks per square foot

784
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: once installed, depending on a whole number of factors UM.

785
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: And we know the rough cost of solar panels, the

786
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: very rough cost really it's it's currently some seventy five

787
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: cents per what of capacity for consumer installation UM with

788
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: a square foot of solar panel comprising some eight to

789
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: ten watts, which means that you're talking about like five

790
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: bucks to seven and a half bucks per square foot

791
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: for the photo voltaics alone right at on top of that,

792
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: the cost of micro microprocessors, the other sensors that are

793
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: involved the glass. One YouTuber that you looked at had

794
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: done some numbers on the glass. Thunderfoot is the name

795
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: of the YouTuber who has a twenty eight minute long

796
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: video that's a critique of this project. Uh and and

797
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: Thunderfoot is he's little less diplomatic than other people, but

798
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: he on YouTube on YouTube, but he makes some very

799
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: interesting points that you know, these are concerns that have

800
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: to be answered, and one of those was just he

801
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: was just looking at the sheer amount, no pun intended,

802
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: of glass needed for this project, if you're talking about

803
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: five thousand square miles of roads, and he through his

804
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: calculations he said, well, just based upon the amount that

805
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: this glass cost and the amount of area UM, I

806
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: come up with twenty trillion dollars just for the class.

807
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: That's more money than what I think anyone is prepared

808
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: to pay for. Yes, I have seen estimates around the

809
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: internet arranging close to fifty to sixty trillion dollars for

810
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: the total cost of the project. To put this in

811
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: perspective a little bit, the annual budget that the Department

812
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: of Transportation asked for for the National Highway Association uh

813
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: IN was forty one billion dollars, so less than a

814
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: ten of what this would potentially cost, according to some people,

815
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: could potentially cost. Maybe now. Solar Roadways has responded to

816
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: a lot of these criticisms, not necessarily effectively in my

817
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: in my opinion, but one of the things, like, for instance,

818
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 1: for the cost. The response to the cost I don't

819
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: think was a real response. Again in my opinion, they said, essentially,

820
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: we don't know how much a panel is going to

821
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: cost yet because we haven't cost out the prototype, because

822
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: this is all stuff that we're buying off the shelf

823
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: to make a working concept, right and don't have a

824
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: production model yet. Right this the dollars that we are

825
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: getting from our indio go campaign are going to people

826
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: who are very intelligent and are going to help us

827
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: make this cost efficiency, so they don't. So their response

828
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: to it doesn't cost fifty or sixty trillion dollars because

829
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: we don't know how much it costs yet. That's I mean,

830
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: it's a fair response in the sense that they don't

831
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: have a figure. But it also and and it is

832
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: it is fair when they say that, Um, any journalist

833
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: who reports on the exact number that's going to cost

834
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: doesn't know what they're talking about because technically none of

835
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: us know what we're talking about. Now, that doesn't mean

836
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: that it won't cost fifty or sixty trillion dollars. It

837
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: might it might cost more than that, depending upon what

838
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: the final cost of any individual solar panel is. Uh,

839
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: it may cost more than that to outfit the entire

840
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: United States. The point they were making is that we

841
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: don't know yet, so don't report those numbers. Because I

842
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: don't know why they're so concerned. Their indiegog project has

843
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: already funded, so they can at least uh continue on

844
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: and see how feasible this is. But it's one of

845
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: the responses. And it was actually a flexible, flexible funding one,

846
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: which means that even if they hadn't reached their full

847
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: funding amount, the money that people had given to the

848
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: project would have still most of it would have gone

849
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: to them. Well, Indie goog takes a bigger chunk on

850
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: that case. But uh, Then some of the other refutations

851
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: they had didn't seem to address what the concern was.

852
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: For example, that criticism about heating roadways being inefficient and

853
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: expensive compared to say, using a snowplow. Their response first

854
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: was that um, driving in the wind in the winter

855
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: during ice or snowstorms is dangerous, which no one, no

856
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: one was arguing, and no one had questioned every that's

857
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: that's evident that driving in those conditions is dangerous and

858
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: therefore reducing those conditions is a good thing. No one

859
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: disagrees with that. Then they also said that it's expensive

860
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: to run snow plows and salt trucks, that kind of thing.

861
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: No one said it wasn't expensive. Not a question, you know,

862
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: they were saying, is it? You know, it proved to

863
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: us that your approach of using heat is more efficient

864
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: and more cost effective than this other one. Because again,

865
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: if you are in an area that needs this service,

866
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: you are also in an area where you're not generating

867
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: that electricity dynamically and unless you have some magical way

868
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: of getting the electricity from sunny places to the places

869
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: that are under lots of snow. That means you're pouring

870
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: power into the system, and that trying to melt snow

871
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: or ice it caught it requires a lot of energy,

872
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: and so if you're having to use a lot of energy,

873
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: then that means that it might be costing you more

874
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: money in the long run to use that method than

875
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: to use a snowplow. And you can't use a snowplow

876
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: on this type of road. So once it's there, you're

877
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: stuck with you You're stuck with it until you can

878
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: melt it. Uh So, one thing that I haven't seen

879
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: addressed that I did want to mention is that, Okay,

880
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: solar energy is wonderful in theory. I've talked about this

881
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: on the show before. I think um and costs and

882
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: manufacturing practices are improving all the time. But as it stands,

883
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: it is not completely green that this is not necessarily

884
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: a super earth friendly technology. It is frequently better in

885
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: the long run than some other things. But okay, the

886
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: thing is is that solar panels are made with rare

887
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: earth elements, so called not because they're all that rare.

888
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: They're actually fairly common, but rather because they're found in

889
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 1: very small concentrations and surrounding or refining them is really

890
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: difficult and can involve some truly scary chemical processes. Right now,

891
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: most of this is done in China because their cheapest

892
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: from China, mostly because the minds are state run, their

893
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: employees are terrifically underpaid, and their practices are blatantly irresponsible.

894
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: We're talking about these sites which are situated smack in

895
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: the middle of residential areas, dumping you know, like toxic

896
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: sulfuric acid vapor into the local air and radioactive thorium

897
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: into the local water systems. It is a really huge concern.

898
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: Right So, while the generating of electricity itself is green,

899
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: the generating of the solar panels is not. Is not

900
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: and and of course you know the these these minds

901
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: in China, are these irresponsible minds in China are not

902
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: the only ones producing the materials for our solar panels.

903
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to represent that because that would be untrue.

904
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: And I do believe that there are many places that

905
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: are working towards much better systems, but still a current

906
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: concern and anyone who's listened to Uh, there's an old

907
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: Tech Stuff episode on rare Earth minerals as well, where

908
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: we really go into the detail of what they are

909
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: and why there's this this problem with them. And also,

910
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: you know, everything from the issues you were just talking

911
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: about Lauren too to artificial scarcity, where you have a

912
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: country like China restricting how much they will deport, how

913
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: much they will export, not deport how much they'll export

914
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: to other countries, almost as a way of like some

915
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: people would call it extortion. It's controlling the market. Certainly,

916
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: they are forcing foreign companies to build plants in their

917
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: borders in order to do their thing right, and once

918
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: money gets into China it rarely um so, so there's that. Also,

919
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: I did want to point out that a lot of

920
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: the teams, the solar roadways teams ideas, really aren't related

921
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: to the solar part of the roadway at all, but

922
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: are rather, you know, to the l ed s and

923
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 1: the potential smart capacity of the system, which is another

924
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: are twillions of dollars more in research and development and implementation. Sure, yeah,

925
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: this is again we're talking about an enormous endeavor. I

926
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: guess you could argue that these early days are still

927
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: to prove the concept is viable, and if in fact

928
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: it is viable, maybe we see the rollout as an

929
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: extremely gradual role. It would have to be. I mean,

930
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: there's there's no magical manufacturing process that's going to turn

931
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: these things out in the volume necessary to cover all

932
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: the roads anyway. Oh, certainly not. But you know, maybe

933
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 1: for private practices it could be a you know, if

934
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: a company wanted to pave their parking lot. Sure, yeah,

935
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: I could see this as being something that's used on

936
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: a more modest scale. A lot of the critics also say,

937
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: why pour money into this particular project when we could

938
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: use a similar approach to places that are not constantly

939
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 1: covered by cars, like putting solar panels along the sides

940
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: of roads or on top of buildings. So, in that sense,

941
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: using this technology to uh in ways where you don't

942
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: have the considerations of how do you do this without

943
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: disrupting all traffic everywhere or putting things in danger or

944
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: having a an infrastructure that has to be replaced frequently

945
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: because of just the wear and tear. I'm curious about

946
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 1: why a system of kinetic kinetic road plates hasn't received

947
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: this kind of attention, and yeah, I mean kinetic road

948
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 1: plates would have their own issue because you're talking about

949
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: transferring kinetic motion from the car to the roadway, and

950
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: unless you do it in a very very smart way,

951
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: you're just adding more work for the car to do.

952
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: So it's just a you're not you're not generating more

953
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: energy that way. You're actually spending the same amount of

954
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: energy you would be capturing just in your car. You'd

955
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: be collecting it in aggregate, but your car would have

956
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: to work harder so on each you know, it's a

957
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 1: This is why energy problems are hard, because they're big.

958
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, you can look at one individual piece of

959
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: an energy problem and you say, oh, if we just

960
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: fix this, everything's fine, But then you have to step

961
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: outside of that and look at a bigger picture, and

962
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: that's when it gets really complicated. So personally, I think

963
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: the idea as presented is worth exploring at least to

964
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: see how feasible it is and in what context. So

965
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: I would be amazed if this actually becomes a viable

966
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: means of replacing roads. I really would. I think it's

967
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: a neat idea. I just don't see it working. I

968
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: would eat my proverbial hat. Yeah, it is proverbial. She

969
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: is not wearing a hat because the headphones don't fit

970
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: over hats. Um. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm extremely dubious, you guys. Yeah,

971
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: I think it could potentially be something interesting for you know,

972
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: parking lots or paved public spaces, sidewalks that could maybe

973
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: be But I mean, I think in the sidewalks I

974
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: walked down and how the things like a tree growing

975
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 1: ends up completely destroying the sidewalk in the matter of

976
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years. Uh. And that's that's a you know,

977
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: regular old clay ceramic dial that doesn't have any you

978
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: know in it poisonous electronics. So I mean, I think

979
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: it's worth looking into because if nothing else, it means

980
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: that we might get ideas for alternate approaches that could

981
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: builp down the road. I just don't think this one's

982
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 1: gonna pay yea. And I certainly don't want to quash

983
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: you know, scientific inquiry and and curiosity, nor do I

984
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: want to green areas and roadways. That's terrific. Yeah, And

985
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: if any of you have contributed to this project, we're

986
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: not even saying that that was a mistake, not at all.

987
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: What we're saying is that, uh, don't buy into the

988
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: hype wholeheartedly, go in with some skepticism, some critical thinking,

989
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: and realize that even if this doesn't end up paying

990
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: off in the implementation they're talking about, we could end

991
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: up coming up with some really cool ideas that are

992
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: similar to it and that we could benefit from other ways.

993
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 1: And and who knows. The worst case scenario with our

994
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: personal opinions is that we're wrong and it works, and

995
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: if it works, it's awesome. Actually that's kind of a

996
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: best case scenario really from the project, Like I would

997
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: take that I would love to be proven wrong, that

998
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: that's true. I would love that my skepticism turns out

999
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: to be unwarranted and that the problems I foresee, like

1000
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to think of using a hexagonal system

1001
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: of tiles in areas that have lots of hills and

1002
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: valleys and turns in them that would require some pretty

1003
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, how do you get it? They also have

1004
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: trapezoidal half test that yeah, it just but it doesn't

1005
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: make me nonetheless, Yeah, but but I would love to

1006
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: be proven wrong and to see that this works perfectly,

1007
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: because you know, I want to drive around in tron

1008
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: world or at least have my driverless car take me

1009
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: around in tron world. Oh yeah, me too. And if

1010
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: this ultimately did work out and we were also able

1011
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: to have electric vehicles everywhere and really cut back on

1012
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: that pollution, that'd be fantastic. Um yeah. Some of their

1013
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: further ideas are to you know, provide induction surfaces to

1014
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: let these this the solar powered roadway also directly charge

1015
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: your electric vehicle as you drive it around. Yeah, that'd

1016
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: be that's pretty awesome. That'd be pretty amazing. Yeah, essentially

1017
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: you have a car that you never have to refuel. Um,

1018
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 1: this is a future that can charge in a parking

1019
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: lot while you're you know, while you're at Taco bell

1020
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: or whatever. Talk about sorry I said the taco bell

1021
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: word has been growling this whole podcast. Um yeah, I

1022
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: could eat like a king. I got like three bucks

1023
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: in my pocket. Uh yeah, this is this is something

1024
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: that we would love to see happen. We just really

1025
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: think that it's a long shot, you know. Now, this

1026
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: is Jonathan from one Again. Just wanted to say that,

1027
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, the solar roadways groups, they're still they're still active,

1028
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: but you know, clearly we haven't seen an enormous revolution.

1029
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: It's not like the world or even a single country

1030
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: has replaced all of its roadways with solar panels. Such

1031
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: an endeavor would be enormous, incredibly time consuming, incredibly disruptive

1032
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: to daily life. Um And as it turns out, it's

1033
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: really hard to get that technology to work properly so

1034
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: that it is consistently reliable and doesn't require replacement super frequently. So,

1035
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: in other words, it has seemed to proven to be

1036
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: impractical at least so far. And um, you know, it

1037
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: doesn't hasn't stopped people from trying. And I think it's

1038
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: a worthy effort for certain applications. I'm not convinced roadways

1039
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: or one of them. I think they're too many other

1040
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: factors that complicate things as far as roadways go. But

1041
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: being able to cover certain surfaces with solar panels so

1042
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: that we can use them that otherwise would just go

1043
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: unused to generate electricity, I think that's a pretty smart idea,

1044
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: depending on where you are. Obviously, if you're in a

1045
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: place that doesn't get a lot of sun exposure, doesn't

1046
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: make much sense. It would just be really expensive. But

1047
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: I like the concept. I just wish it were more practical.

1048
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: If you have suggestions for topics I should cover in

1049
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: future episodes of tech Stuff, reach out to me on Twitter.

1050
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: The handle for the show is text Stuff H s

1051
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: W and I'll talk to you again really soon. Text

1052
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts

1053
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,

1054
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.