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Speaker 2: All right, well, code hoops tonight, you're at the volume

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Speaker 2: heavy Friday, Every buddy, oh ball. If you guys are

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Speaker 2: having a great start to your weekend, well, we got

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a dud tonight. As a tale

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Speaker 2: of two very different New York Knicks, teams and a

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Speaker 2: tale of two very different Boston Celtics teams from Game

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Speaker 2: five to Game six, and the Knicks are gonna blow

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Speaker 2: them out. We're actually starting a little bit early here.

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Speaker 2: There's still four minutes left over there at MSG. But

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Speaker 2: tonight we're gonna break down very briefly the dynamic that

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Speaker 2: took place in this game, but I want to focus

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Speaker 2: a little bit looking forward towards the Pacers matchup for

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Speaker 2: the Knicks. We won't have our series preview until probably

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Speaker 2: Sunday morning. I'm gonna be working on that tomorrow, but

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Speaker 2: we'll talk a little bit about my initial impressions going

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Speaker 2: into that series. Then after that, we'll talk about the

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Speaker 2: Celtics and what they're looking at heading into this offseason. Jackson,

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Speaker 2: who produces this show, is a Celtics fan, and he

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Speaker 2: has put some thought into some specific targets for the

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Speaker 2: Celtics this summer, and I have not seen the list yet,

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Speaker 2: so we're gonna work through that together and just kind

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Speaker 2: of have some fun, just kind of game planning a

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Speaker 2: potential Celtics offseason. Then at the tail end of the show,

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Speaker 2: we'll take five ten minutes of mailbag questions from the

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Speaker 2: chat so make sure you guys get your questions into

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Speaker 2: the chat. When we finish here on YouTube, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: migrate over to playback again. That's playback dot tv slash

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Speaker 2: Hoops Tonight. We take callers there every night. It is

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Speaker 2: so much fun. We've been really enjoying building out that

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Speaker 2: part of the show because it's just informal and we

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Speaker 2: talk shit, we have fun, we watch film. It's just

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Speaker 2: a bunch of basketball fans hanging out and having a

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Speaker 2: good time. So meet us over at playback dot tv

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Speaker 2: slash Hoops Tonight. When we finish up here on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: you guys are the jop before we get started. Subscribe

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Speaker 2: to Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more

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Speaker 2: of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore JCNLTS

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Speaker 2: you guys don't miss you announcements. Don't forget about a

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Speaker 2: podcast feet where you get your podcast on O Hoops Tonight.

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Speaker 2: So also super helpful if we leave a rating in

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Speaker 2: a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on

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Speaker 2: our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Make sure you

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Speaker 2: guys follow us there, and then, like I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 2: keep dropping mail back questions into the chat so that

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Speaker 2: we can get to them at the tail end of

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Speaker 2: the show and then again when we finish here playback

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Speaker 2: dot TV slash Oops tonight. All right, let's talk some basketball.

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Speaker 2: So I thought the abundantly clear thing that happened right

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Speaker 2: out the gates in this game just a level of

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Speaker 2: defensive intensity from the Knicks. We have another gentleman named

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Speaker 2: Shane who's been working with us on the show over

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Speaker 2: the course of this offseason, big Knicks fan, and he

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Speaker 2: was talking before we got on the stream about how

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Speaker 2: it's just you'd never know what you're gonna get with

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Speaker 2: the Knicks. And it's funny because another former person who's

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Speaker 2: worked on this show, Josh Rodriguez, a big Knicks fan himself.

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Speaker 2: He messaged me we were talking about it on Twitter

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Speaker 2: actually after the after they got rid of the Pistons,

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Speaker 2: and he was just talking about how Knicks fans have

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Speaker 2: just been like kind of sick of this team for

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Speaker 2: that type of inconsistent personality that they have, and it's

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Speaker 2: just very simple like watching Game five and there's very

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Speaker 2: little in the way of intense physical pressure on the perimeter.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole lot of just like not paying attention

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Speaker 2: or communicating in transition as they repeatedly left Derek White

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Speaker 2: wide open over and over and over again. And Josh

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Speaker 2: Hart is talking in the postgame presser about like this

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Speaker 2: kind of multiple personality type of issue that the Knicks have,

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Speaker 2: and he's just like, I don't know what causes it,

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Speaker 2: but it's just kind of who they are at this point.

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Speaker 2: And that is something that will have to keep an

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Speaker 2: eye on when it comes to the Pacers series, because

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Speaker 2: the Pacers are certainly a team that does not have

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Speaker 2: multiple personalities. They play the same way all the damn time,

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Speaker 2: and the second you let go of the rope, they

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Speaker 2: can take control of the situation, and that's going to

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Speaker 2: be a theme as we head into that series. But tonight,

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Speaker 2: I thought the Knicks brought the necessary energy on the

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Speaker 2: defensive end of the floor. Oh Jannonobey, I thought set

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Speaker 2: the tone right from the start with his ball pressure

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Speaker 2: and physicality on Jalen Brown. Jalen Man had a very

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Speaker 2: rough game relative to what he looked like in Game five.

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Speaker 2: He just we talked about how he didn't settle for

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Speaker 2: a single pull up jump shot in Game five until

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Speaker 2: halfway through the second quarter. He was taking some really tough,

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Speaker 2: contested ones early and often in this game, there was

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Speaker 2: a way less of an intentional effort to attack Jalen Brunson,

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Speaker 2: although there to Jalen Brunson's credit, they started to go

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Speaker 2: at him a lot in the early third quarter stretch

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Speaker 2: and he just did a great job. He just held

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Speaker 2: his ground and battled. And as we zoom out from

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Speaker 2: the series, I thought Brunson in particular was pretty great

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Speaker 2: defensively outside of Game five, and there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of opportunities for Boston to try to attack Brunson, especially

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Speaker 2: in Game one in Game two, and he just held

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Speaker 2: up really well. But Og got right up in Jalen

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Speaker 2: Brown's grill right away and made him uncomfortable. The Celtics

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Speaker 2: did get some easy ones in the first half that

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Speaker 2: didn't go in, and if the few easy ones you

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Speaker 2: get don't go in, and there's a lot of pressure

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Speaker 2: and good defense on these other possessions, it's just really

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Speaker 2: difficult to counter that. And then the Knicks were playing

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Speaker 2: with a type of desperation. You tell the Knicks new

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Speaker 2: They're like, we have to go back to the TD garden.

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Speaker 2: This could get ugly for us, and so the Knicks

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Speaker 2: kind of treated it like a must win, and they

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Speaker 2: brought the necessary energy and they threw a hell of

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Speaker 2: a punch and the Celtics just didn't really have much

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Speaker 2: of a chance, not with the way that they were

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Speaker 2: shooting the ball tonight. Did not score over twenty points

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Speaker 2: in any quarter until the fourth quarter tonight. So impressive

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Speaker 2: win for the Knicks. Now let's split this up here.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about looking forward to the Pacer

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Speaker 2: matchup first, and then we'll talk about the Celtics moving

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Speaker 2: forward with their future, so specifically with the Pacers matchup.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say this the same way that I've been

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Speaker 2: saying it with some other series around when we've discussed

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Speaker 2: the reality of going matchup to matchup, as we've now

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Speaker 2: seen two of the three sixty win teams in the

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Speaker 2: NBA this year lose, and as Oklahoma City is at

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Speaker 2: risk of potentially losing on Sunday. Although we did get

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Speaker 2: a report today that Aaron Gordon there was that weird

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Speaker 2: play where Jadubb dove into his legs and I thought

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Speaker 2: he was just kind of playing up the injury to

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Speaker 2: try to get a flagrant foul or something like that

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Speaker 2: or a review. But looks like Aaron Gordon might have

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Speaker 2: some sort of hamstring issue, which is very scary for

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Speaker 2: a Nuggets team that I would argue Aaron Gordon's been

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Speaker 2: their second best player in this postseason run, and so

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Speaker 2: that obviously is a devastating loss there. But there's a

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Speaker 2: chance that we could end up losing all sixty win

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Speaker 2: teams before we even get out of the second round.

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Speaker 2: And part of the reason for that is because more

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Speaker 2: and more, as the game has changed, there are just

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Speaker 2: so many different ways to play, and so many different

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Speaker 2: types of teams and so many different types of stars.

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Speaker 2: Even if you just look at the remaining four stars

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Speaker 2: that will be leading these groups, Let's say if Jokic

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Speaker 2: advances or Shay advances, right, I've got Tyrese Haliburton, who's

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Speaker 2: like some weird like Steve Nash mixed with a better

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Speaker 2: athlete type of hybrid modern spread pick and roll, like

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Speaker 2: keep the ball moving type of ball handler. Then I've

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Speaker 2: got Jalen Brunson, who's like this small, shifty, like incredibly

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Speaker 2: gifted half court surgical scorer slash shot maker. Then I

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Speaker 2: go out to the West and it's like I get

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Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards, who's like the modern version of Michael Jordan,

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Speaker 2: just this huge apex athlete two guard that can shoot

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Speaker 2: the shit out of the basketball and then out of

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Speaker 2: the other series. We're either going to get like the

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Speaker 2: modern day James Harden, this high volume score that is

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Speaker 2: incredibly gifted at getting to the foul line, but has

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Speaker 2: another layer of versatility in terms of his mid range

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Speaker 2: shot making that even James Harden didn't have. Or the

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Speaker 2: best player in the world, Nikola Jokic, who's like this

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Speaker 2: big Doe center who inverts yours facing and makes just

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Speaker 2: about every damn shot he takes and is probably the

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Speaker 2: best passer in the game. And as you kind of

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Speaker 2: zoom out look at that, that's just these four or

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Speaker 2: five remaining teams. If I went down the list for

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Speaker 2: all sixteen teams, or all twenty if you included the

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Speaker 2: playing teams, there's just so many different kinds of stars

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Speaker 2: and so many different kinds of role players and schemes

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Speaker 2: on defense and on offense. We've seen more zone, I

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Speaker 2: feel like in this postseason than in any postseason that

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Speaker 2: I can remember, as so many teams have been working

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Speaker 2: on mixing up coverages and different kinds of zone and

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Speaker 2: entire halves where a team will Run twenty twenty five

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Speaker 2: Possessions of zone like this is a modern MBA where

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Speaker 2: every series is different, and arguably within the game, within

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Speaker 2: the actual series themselves, every game is different, and so

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Speaker 2: it is no longer about which team won more games

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Speaker 2: or who had the best net rating, strictly about what

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Speaker 2: do you have in your toolbox to manage the shifting

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Speaker 2: flow of each series. So, for instance, the Celtics, they

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Speaker 2: moved the ball, especially when they get into their matchup attacking,

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Speaker 2: and you either leave an opening in your coverage or

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Speaker 2: if you, like in Game five, just concede a lot

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Speaker 2: of like size mismatches that they can bully right to

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Speaker 2: the front of the rim, but they don't come close

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Speaker 2: to the pace and ball in player movement that Indiana

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Speaker 2: brings to the table, So similarly to what we saw

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Speaker 2: with Minnesota, where that like legitimately took them a lot

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Speaker 2: longer than you would have expected to put away a

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Speaker 2: Golden State Warriors team without Steph. And I mean, obviously

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Speaker 2: they won the series in five games, but within those games,

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Speaker 2: it's like they lose game one, Game two they blow

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Speaker 2: them out, but game three they're like trailing in the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter. Game four, it's the Warriors that think kind

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Speaker 2: of lead in the mid third quarter like it took

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Speaker 2: that they didn't dominate that team despite the massive talent

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Speaker 2: advantage because of the fact that there was some reality

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Speaker 2: to the way that Golden State just played a very

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Speaker 2: different kind of basketball than the Lakers did and it

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Speaker 2: just took them a while to adjust to it. And

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Speaker 2: so with the Pacers, there are these obvious differences switching

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Speaker 2: like you did against Boston. That's stagnated Boston, especially in

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Speaker 2: Game four and especially down the stretch of Game one

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Speaker 2: in Game two. No matter what you do to Indiana,

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Speaker 2: they are not going to stagnate. They are going to

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Speaker 2: attack with ball and player movement, and if you do

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Speaker 2: everything right, then yeah, they'll go hunting a mismatch. But one,

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Speaker 2: they're going to try to get something easy by getting

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Speaker 2: you to make a mistake botching a switch or leaving

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Speaker 2: it opening otherwise not there. And two, unlike Boston, Boston

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Speaker 2: will hunt mismatches, but they can get away from it.

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Speaker 2: That's been the story with Boston for years, even going

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Speaker 2: back to before they won the title. They have had

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Speaker 2: a tendency to have extended stretches where they play a

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Speaker 2: certain way and have a great deal of success, and

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Speaker 2: then they go brain dead for like twelve minutes of

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Speaker 2: real time where they just take a bunch of bad

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Speaker 2: shots and fail to go back to the thing that worked.

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Speaker 2: Indiana's pretty relentless about hunting those mismatches. If you switch

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Speaker 2: appropriately and avoid the openings that naturally occur in their offense,

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Speaker 2: they will throw it to Siakam or Miles Turner against

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Speaker 2: the size mismatch over and over and over again. If

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Speaker 2: you end up switching, if you end up containing the ball.

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Speaker 2: They have a process offensively that is relentless from the start.

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Speaker 2: They pick you up full court, they try to rush

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Speaker 2: you into a poor offense. They push in transition like crazy.

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Speaker 2: Tyrese is one of the best kick ahead passers in

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Speaker 2: the NBA. Right now, They're going to get you in

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Speaker 2: the blender, and if you survive the blender, they're going

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Speaker 2: to hunt a mismatch. It's just a very very different

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Speaker 2: type of series than what this Celtics series is, and

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Speaker 2: it's a much better version of Tyrese Haliburt. Tyres Haliburton

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Speaker 2: is playing at a substantially higher level than he was

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Speaker 2: playing for the Knick series last year. Is his matchup

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Speaker 2: specifically with Karl Anthony Towns in space. Whether it be

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Speaker 2: in pick and roll coverages like a high drop or

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Speaker 2: a hedge, or it be in a switch, that's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a key factor in this series. Tyrese Haliburton attacking

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Speaker 2: Karl Anthony Towns in space. It's going to be a challenge.

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Speaker 2: I expect to see a lot of Pascal Siakam and

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Speaker 2: Miles Turner in post up mismatches against Jalen Brunson as

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Speaker 2: they work through you know, maybe a Nemhard a ball

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Speaker 2: screen with Nemhard or Nie Smith and they get a

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Speaker 2: switch and they're just gonna throw it down there. There's

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Speaker 2: a great deal of like trusting of simple closeout reads

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Speaker 2: like the Celtics when they have Tatum dancing at the

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Speaker 2: top of the key and two guys are digging down

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Speaker 2: into the driving lanes. The Celtics are less willing to

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Speaker 2: just take that like simple swing pass. The Pacers make

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Speaker 2: that shit relentlessly. They make it like every time you

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Speaker 2: sink off of a man for whatever reason, Tyres will

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Speaker 2: hit you every single time. And so it's just gonna

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Speaker 2: be a very different type of challenge, and I think

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Speaker 2: that bodes well for Indiana, especially early in this series,

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Speaker 2: and so with the Knicks having home court advantage, I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to be really interesting to see if

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Speaker 2: they can hold up in those first two games, because

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Speaker 2: when you play a very different team and they roll

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Speaker 2: up into your arena and they're playing great basketball and

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Speaker 2: they throw you in the blender, you'd make a few

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Speaker 2: too many mistakes in Game one. Suddenly, even though you

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Speaker 2: can solve that problem, you end up losing home court

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Speaker 2: advantage in the process. And so I think that's going

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Speaker 2: to be the first thing I'm watching early in the

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Speaker 2: series is just how quickly the Knicks adjusts defensively to

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Speaker 2: what will be a very different challenge. Against the Celtics,

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Speaker 2: it was about switching and containing and the individual defense

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Speaker 2: in Game one, in Game two of Brunson on Tatum

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Speaker 2: and Brown, and in Game four of Karl Anthony Towns

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Speaker 2: on Jason Tatum in space. This series is going to

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Speaker 2: be less of that and more of the attentiveness. We

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Speaker 2: saw the job that the Knicks didn't transition defense in

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Speaker 2: Game five against Boston. If they bring that type of effort,

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Speaker 2: the Pacers will beat the shit out of them. And

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Speaker 2: so again, like we talked earlier. This is going to

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Speaker 2: be much more of a mental challenge for the Knicks

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Speaker 2: than it is a physical challenge. I'm very, very excit

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Speaker 2: for it. On the other end of the floor, we

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Speaker 2: saw some stuff last year, right, Brunson had a great

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Speaker 2: deal of success against Nemhard, not so much against Niesmith.

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Speaker 2: We'll see if for Carlile ends up making that kind

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Speaker 2: of move. But here's the thing. You end up putting

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Speaker 2: in Nemhard on a Michale Bridges, You're now conceding a

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Speaker 2: lot of size in that matchup, where McHale Bridges has

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Speaker 2: been a very gifted over the top shooter in the

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Speaker 2: mid range, and so it's a very different type of

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Speaker 2: team for the Pacers to match up with this time around.

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Speaker 2: I've already started watching film on this series. Weirdly enough,

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Speaker 2: the one game where everybody kind of played was in

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Speaker 2: that early phase of the season when the Pacers weren't

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Speaker 2: playing very good basketball. But we do have three games

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Speaker 2: worth of data. The next we're two and one in

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Speaker 2: the regular season. I mean to be watching a lot

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Speaker 2: of that film tomorrow and working on that series preview.

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Speaker 2: It'll be up on our feeds most likely Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: Potentially Saturday afternoon. We'll let you guys know when it

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Speaker 2: comes out. I'll text you or I'll put it out

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Speaker 2: on Twitter and you guys can see it there. But

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Speaker 2: we'll have an in depth series preview at some point

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Speaker 2: in the next day or two.

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Speaker 3: Blending Vice signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world

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Speaker 3: of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range

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Speaker 3: of programming that goes beyond the game. From action pack

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Speaker 3: live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries, to hard

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Speaker 3: hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.

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Speaker 3: Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that

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Speaker 3: makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events on the other

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Speaker 3: exclusive sports programs only. This is now for TV growth,

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Speaker 3: Vice TV dot Com, the.

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Speaker 2: Channel three, twenty four, twenty five. But the sixth consecutive

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Speaker 2: year that a champion failed to get out of the

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Speaker 2: second round the following year, and this has been kind

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Speaker 2: of something that I've been pushing back on in terms of,

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Speaker 2: like every single time there's been any sort of success

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Speaker 2: in this era, every from anybody, including myself as a

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Speaker 2: Lakers fan, there's this feeling like we've reached the mountain top.

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Speaker 2: We figured it out, and now we're here. And it's

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Speaker 2: like the Lakers have some injuries that following year and

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Speaker 2: their roster is completely blown up. Two years after that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Raptors, they lose Kawhi Leonard. They're completely

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Speaker 2: different team after that. The Bucks in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: Chris Middleton quickly declines physically. Giannis ends up getting injured.

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Speaker 2: A couple of years after that. Next thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: the roster's too old for them to contend Golden State.

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Speaker 2: They catch this flash in a pan with Jordan Poole

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Speaker 2: and Andrew Wiggins, which allows what was a limited roster

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Speaker 2: to reach a level that could compete for a championship.

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Speaker 2: And you get an all time great type of performance

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Speaker 2: out of Steph Curry that allows you to hoist the trophy.

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Speaker 2: But then pretty quickly Andrew Wiggins and Jordan Poole kind

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Speaker 2: of regrets to the mean and suddenly it doesn't look

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Speaker 2: like a championship roster anymore. Twenty twenty three with the Nuggets,

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Speaker 2: they end up losing Bruce Brown, Justin Holliday, just a

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Speaker 2: little bit of that depth that they used to have.

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Speaker 2: Cacp's out of the picture, they're not as good at

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Speaker 2: the point of attack. They have looked like a second

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Speaker 2: tier contender ever since then, although they do have a

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Speaker 2: puncher's chance to win the title this year. You go

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Speaker 2: to the following year with Boston. Now, same sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: This is an all time great Team's gonna be the

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Speaker 2: team that runs the league. And it's like, even if

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Speaker 2: Jason Tatum didn't get hurt, they were probably about fifty

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Speaker 2: five to sixty percent likely to lose this series anyway.

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Speaker 2: Why a couple of guys got a little older, a

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Speaker 2: little more banged up. Porzingis wasn't very good. Drew Holliday

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Speaker 2: couldn't shoot the three as well as he used to,

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Speaker 2: Jaylen Brown couldn't shoot the three as well as he

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Speaker 2: used to. A couple guys just went cold at wrong times,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly you're out of here in the second round.

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Speaker 2: And it's just a reminder that in this era, sustaining

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Speaker 2: success is extremely difficult. So you can never get too high,

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Speaker 2: you can never get too low. Those big picture roster decisions.

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Speaker 2: You've got to be keyed in on the fact that

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Speaker 2: if you if you think you're good enough, you're probably not,

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Speaker 2: and you probably need more firepower than it appears on

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Speaker 2: the surface, and this has just been the latest example

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Speaker 2: of that. And I don't know, like, when we look

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Speaker 2: back in NBA history, it's kind of crazy right on

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Speaker 2: the heels of an era where we saw Lebron James

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Speaker 2: win the Eastern Conference eight times in a row, we

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Speaker 2: saw Steph Curry win the Western Conference four times in

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Speaker 2: a row, we saw the Spurs win the Western Conference

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Speaker 2: two times in a row, and it just there's so

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Speaker 2: much more parody, There's so much more talent in the league.

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Speaker 2: It is so much harder to sustain success. There are

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Speaker 2: realities with the second Apron and with the new CBA

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Speaker 2: that makes it very difficult to accumulate talent and sustain

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Speaker 2: talent in this league. I guarantee you that like the

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Speaker 2: next team that everyone's going to be focused on in

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Speaker 2: terms of like, this team's gonna win every year, It's

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Speaker 2: going to be the thunder until guess what they have

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Speaker 2: to pay everybody, And all of a sudden, there's a

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Speaker 2: certain amount of their talent that they're unable to retain

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Speaker 2: and they end up dipping a little bit in talent,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly there's more pressure on Shay to be better

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Speaker 2: in every facet of the game, and it's just really

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Speaker 2: really difficult to sustain success in the NBA these days,

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Speaker 2: and I thought that what happened to Boston this year

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Speaker 2: was a really interesting example of that. Jalen Brown kind

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Speaker 2: of an interesting example of the tale of two games,

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Speaker 2: and it's just something to keep an eye as we

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Speaker 2: head into next season with him. He was so good

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Speaker 2: in terms of his floor game in Game five, the

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Speaker 2: decision making, the deliberate and intentional attack king of Jalen Brunson,

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Speaker 2: the refusal to settle for bad jump shots, and just

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Speaker 2: like all of that went out the window today and

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Speaker 2: what was a much more uneven game from him outside

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Speaker 2: of a few shots that he made early. And so

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Speaker 2: just with that next year, that's gonna be the key

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Speaker 2: for him if he's going to have any sort of

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Speaker 2: sustained success as the leader of the Celtics next year,

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Speaker 2: it's got to be that game to game floor presence

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Speaker 2: of decision making, ruthless precision in terms of the types

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Speaker 2: of advantages you're hunting in the half court. That's going

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Speaker 2: to be the challenge for him next year. But it

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Speaker 2: is going to be more or less a gap year

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Speaker 2: in the sense that, like what happened with Golden State

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Speaker 2: after Klay Thompson and Kevin Durank got hurt, they used

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Speaker 2: a year to accumulate assets to try to pivot and

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Speaker 2: make a run in the future. And that's going to

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Speaker 2: be the challenge for next season is how do you

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Speaker 2: weigh the reality of the talent you have on the

431
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: roster and the fact that you probably could bring everybody

432
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 2: back and be a three or four seat. You probably could,

433
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: But is it worth it to do that and continue

434
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 2: to see Porzingis age and continue to see Horford a

435
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: and continue to see Drew Holiday age and then have

436
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 2: Tatum come back the following year, and you're not good enough?

437
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 2: And that's where they got. The Celtics got to make

438
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 2: some tough decisions about what they're going to do with

439
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: the roster this summer and all throughout next season as

440
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: they prepare for Tatum's inevitable return in the following year.

441
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 2: On that note, let's bring Jackson up. Where you're going

442
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 2: to Jackson put together a list of potential offseason targets. Jackson,

443
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: I want you to just kind of like put everybody

444
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 2: in your frame of mind my time before you start going.

445
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: Through the list, I think I was thinking about the

446
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: Celtic summer even you know, before this game, I wasn't

447
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 1: really expecting to win the series at this point, and

448
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: I have been trying to think about players to target,

449
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 1: and you don't. You can't pick players that are about

450
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: to exit their prime because you like, to your point,

451
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: your next year is a gap year. Next you're you're

452
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: two years away from Jason Tatum being back to anything

453
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: close to what he's he was this year, Right, So

454
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: you can't go too young. But you also have to

455
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: find mostly contenders that are willing to ship players out

456
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: because most of the players that you're in less than

457
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: a three team deal are only good, only valuable for contenders, right,

458
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: It's not like you're trade Why would you trade a

459
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: young guy in the first place. So I was trying

460
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: to find teams that are fringe contenders that definitely feel

461
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: like they need to make a move if they're going

462
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: to go to be actual contenders, but aren't you know,

463
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: but aren't too good where they're not going to make

464
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: big changes to their core. So I have three different

465
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: categories worth of players, some like realistic possible options, some

466
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 1: like are these these teams are quite good. But are

467
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: they going to trade these guys? And some these teams

468
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: are incomplete limbo. I can't imagine they trade the players

469
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: this good, but they're in limbo, so maybe they do.

470
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: To start with, my number one target is Derek Lively.

471
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: I feel like Drew Holiday for Derek Lively and some

472
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, with whatever ancillary pieces that requires, is close

473
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: to perfect considering the Mavericks have. I mean, they have

474
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: Klay Thompson, I guess, but they have some needs at

475
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 1: the guard position and they let they want two way

476
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 1: players per Nico Harrison's vision, and they have three centers now.

477
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: So let me just for to be Devil's advocate. I'm Nico,

478
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 2: and I say I view ad as a short term

479
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: option for US. I viewed Derek as the big picture

480
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: center for our team. Would you be interested in Gafford instead?

481
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: How old is Daniel Gafford?

482
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: Let me pull up the payroll real quick.

483
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: Gafford is twenty six. Yes, I would be interested in

484
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: Daniel Gafford.

485
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: I think Daniel Gafford. You know, even when I look

486
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: back last year like that, there's a little bit of

487
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: a switch defense element with Derek Lively that's more impressive. Yeah,

488
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: but I think Daniel Gafford is actually a little bit

489
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: more physically imposing underneath the basket.

490
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: Definitely, And so it's tricky.

491
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: I think Derek Lively within a couple of years will

492
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: be substantially better than Daniel. Yeah, but it is, it

493
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: is like it is complicated. There's also like the salary

494
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: matching piece. I wonder because Dallas is not a team

495
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: that has cap space that you'll be trading into. It

496
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: would have to be a situation where you match salaries.

497
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: So Withdrew, let me pull up the Celtic payroll real quick.

498
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: So Drew makes thirty or thirty two if you trade

499
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: from this summer. Gafford is at thirteen. So what about

500
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: what about Clay Thompson? Would you what about a deal

501
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: with like Gafford and Clay.

502
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: I got no problem taking back the shallow Clay Thompson

503
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: if you know, if that's what's required from a salary

504
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: matching standpoint, let next year as a wash, let the

505
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: guy come and just put up a bunch of shots.

506
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: Get Let the guy become a meme for the weirdest

507
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: possible jersey, you know, Dwayne Wayne and a Cavaliers jersey

508
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: type of thing like, that's no issue in mind. I'm

509
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: found completely fine with that.

510
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: Let me take it a step further. So they've got

511
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: Cooper flag too, they do. So where the hell is

512
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 2: PJ Washington fitting into all of this?

513
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: Oh? True?

514
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: I like, what if it's more of like a Drew

515
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: Holiday for PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford kind of deal.

516
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: Love, what about I went throw in a first round pick.

517
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: That that would be an interesting move that would almost

518
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: immediately make you more useful, and both of those guys,

519
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: both PJ and Daniel would be bird right free agents

520
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: this summer before Tatum returns. Okay, So what's interesting about

521
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 2: that then is you would have the ability to retain

522
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 2: both of them at basically whatever number you wanted, not

523
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: north of fourteen. But I don't think either player PJ

524
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 2: could encroach on that territory potentially, Yeah, but yeah, like you,

525
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: it's a flexibility move too, in the sense that Drew

526
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: Holliday has all those years left on his contract, but

527
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: you're getting back to players that would actually come off

528
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: of the books the year that Tatum comes back from

529
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: his injury right then. From Dallas' perspective. From Dallas' perspective,

530
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: Drew Holliday. You could not pay a better guard with

531
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis, couldn't.

532
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean they've played before, they've played before. You get

533
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: a complete defensive specialist next to Kay who's not a

534
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: slash defensively actually, but he's going to be coming back

535
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: from a serious injury. You want someone who is going

536
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: from Klay Tom's defensively to Drew Holliday, even as thirty

537
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: four year old Drew Holiday is about as big of

538
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: a gap as you could go defensively.

539
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: To your point, though, I'd prefer Derek. But if I

540
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: countered in that PJ. Washington, Daniel Gafford Range, I think

541
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 2: I think that is a deal that substantially kind of

542
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: like fits the Celtics new timeline. Also worth mentioning. Both

543
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 2: those guys are twenty six right now exactly.

544
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I got four more in this realistic slash

545
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: possible category. I'm gonna throw all of them at you

546
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: and you tell me which ones you like the most.

547
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: All of these are guys, well, they're on varying different

548
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: levels of teams from in terms of win now versus

549
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: not win now. I got two guards and two bigs.

550
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: Two guards, Jalen Suggs from the Orlando Magic also injured.

551
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: You know, timeline wise, what are they gonna do with

552
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: Jalen Sugs right now? Trey Murphy of the New Orleans Pelicans,

553
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: New Orleans Pelicans, that would probably require a third team

554
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 1: because the Pelicans, what do they need Drew Holiday Chris

555
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: has porzingis for. But if the third team potentially and

556
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: then two bigs being Nick Claxton and Yakam Pernle.

557
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm the Magic's GM. You've pitched to me Drew

558
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: Holliday for Jalen Suggs. Point of the Magic's payroll real quick.

559
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: If I'm the Magic's GM, I'm thinking I need shooting. Yeah,

560
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: Andrew Holliday doesn't shoot the ball well enough. So what

561
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: if I said I want Derek White for Jalen Suggs.

562
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: Now the construction that that deal Derek White, if you

563
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: made the if you made the trade before the league

564
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: year turned over, he only makes twenty turns into twenty

565
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: eight the following year. But if you did it before

566
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: the league year, you could get it done with Jalen

567
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: Suggs and Mo Wagner. So you get a big back.

568
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: So now let's so, let's pitch it this way because

569
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: if I'm Orlando, I'm saying like Drew doesn't help me

570
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: in the short term or the long term because of

571
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: his age and because of his inconsistent shooting. I like

572
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: Derek White. We talked about this the other day when

573
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: we were talking The Celtics love Derek White, but for

574
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: the right deal, I would move him. Yeah, I would

575
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: move Derek White for Jalen Suggs and Mo Wagner in

576
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: a heartbeat. Yeah.

577
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: I think I would too. I think I would too.

578
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: I mean Jalen Suggs, if everything goes right from an

579
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: injury recovery standpoint and from a talent, you know, development standpoint,

580
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: he could basically become just a better version. Not maybe

581
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: not better because Derek White's very good, but I think

582
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: he can become a better defensive version. I think he's

583
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: a He's an amazing defender. Even though Derek White is

584
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: also very awesome.

585
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: Jalen Suggs is arguably the best guard defender in the league.

586
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: He's now dignatic what I'm missing here, and this is

587
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: an important detail. It's actually like a poison pill kind

588
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: of trade because Jalen Suggs is new extension kicks in

589
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: next year at thirty five million, so you actually wouldn't

590
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: get MO back. You'd have to wait for the league

591
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: year to turn over, and then you would trade Drew

592
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: excuse me, Derek directly for Jalen and you would have

593
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: to include a little bit more salary, I think, although Orlando, yeah,

594
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to include a little bit more salary.

595
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: So it would be like it would be like Derek

596
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: White and and man, the only other guy who really

597
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: fits in that slot is Pritchard, and you don't want

598
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: to give him a down. You got to keep Prichard

599
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: at his number, and he's like, he's arguably like the

600
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: best contract value in the league right now. Yeah, a

601
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: guy who won't make over ten million at any point

602
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: in his contract. But that is a that's an interesting idea.

603
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: And if I'm Orlando, I'm sitting there thinking like Derek

604
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: White with Pallo and in Franz, like.

605
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: That is a fit exactly.

606
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: And Jalen Suggs to me is like a quintessential Celtic

607
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: type of target mate, a dribble, shoot, pass, defend kind

608
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: of guy.

609
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah. The other ones on that

610
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: that I had in this sort of you know, category

611
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: with Trey Murphy, Nick Claxton, yaka Perl. I don't think

612
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: any of those are quite as good Trey Murphy is.

613
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I love Trey Murphy. I don't know what

614
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: that would definitely require a third team. I'm wondering if

615
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: there's a third team situation with the Mavericks there, even

616
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: where you're sending Drew Holliday to the Mavericks, they send

617
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: a first round pick or something to New Orleans some

618
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: salary matching we get Trey Murphy, but.

619
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: That would be a hard one to sell to the

620
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: fans getting rid of Trey Murphy. Nick Claxton is a

621
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: very one.

622
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

623
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: The reason why Nick Claxton would be perfect with the

624
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: Celtics is he's a switching big who also is a

625
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: vertical spacer, so he could basically be kind of like

626
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: a younger, more athletic version of what Robert Williams was

627
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: for you guys. He makes twenty eight million, so you

628
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: could seamlessly flip Drew for him. And the Nets have

629
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: cap space, so I could pitch it as an opportunity

630
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: to shed salary.

631
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: So let's talk about it.

632
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: Like this, What if you call up the Nets and

633
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: you try to put together a big salary dumping type

634
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: of deal where you get rid of Drew and Christops.

635
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: So you're sending out sixty two, you probably have to

636
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: include all like, you probably have to include multiple first

637
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: round picks for them to do I think so yeah,

638
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: So would you give up multiple first round picks? You

639
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: got to think financially now too, because in this scenario,

640
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Boston's trying to shed salary. So would you give up

641
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: multiple first round picks to bring back Nick Claxtun is

642
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: like the center of the future for you, twenty six

643
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: years old. He matches right up with Tatum's timeline. Yeah,

644
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: twenty six years old, switching center, vertical spacer. But you

645
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: got to give up your draft compensation to get off

646
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: that salary.

647
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: It's tough. I think it depends what the other if

648
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: there's other options on the table. If from a deal standpoint,

649
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: I would not prioritize salary dumping, I think, I mean,

650
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: I think you might have to salary dumb Kristaps just

651
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: straight up regardless. It looks awful. But I think Drew

652
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: Holliday can get you something valuable from.

653
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: A winner from a winner, So maybe you views view

654
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: poor Zingis. To your point, maybe you you view poor

655
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: Zingis as the Nick Claxton piece, and then you look

656
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: at Drew as a piece where you can actually get

657
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: something positive, right.

658
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: Right, That's kind of how I look at it, all right.

659
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: The the are they the fourth name? Who's the fourth name?

660
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: Yakam Perdle. It's a little old.

661
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like that one quite as much, but yeah, ya,

662
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: and Yakub's good. Yakub's good. But uh but yeah, I

663
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: don't like that one as much either. Anyway, go ahead, my.

664
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: Are they open to trading this these guys? Because are

665
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: they going to make a huge shake up this summer?

666
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Are is Jared Allen as well as as well as

667
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: Darius Garland, But Jared Allen primarily because I do feel

668
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: like big is a more of a priority than a guard.

669
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: But so this is a really interesting one. Well, let

670
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: me put you on the spot about this first, after

671
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: how Jared Allen sucked least, I mean, I think.

672
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: You got to just hope that you can make it,

673
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: make it work. The Celtics Biggs at this point are

674
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: in dire straits. Alan Horford is if he's not gonna

675
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: retire this summer, he's not. He's not gonna be anywhere

676
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: impactful next time the Celtics are making a playoff run.

677
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: I love it.

678
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: He's not.

679
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: He's not gonna be an impactful player in twenty twenty

680
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: seven playoffs. I'm sorry.

681
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: Also, part of the issue with Jared Allen two is

682
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: like everybody on the team fell apart and he was

683
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 2: just like part of that kind of like mess. So

684
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: you kind of hope too that you just get him

685
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: next to Jayalen Brown and Jason Tatum and he just

686
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: kind of takes on more of their toughness and personality.

687
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: So he makes twenty million. So the calves, if I'm

688
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: not mistaking our second apron teams, like it's a little

689
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: as of next summer, as of the league calendar turning

690
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: over because Evan Mobley's extension kicks in at forty six

691
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: million experience, isn't that fucking crazy? So so okay, so

692
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: we need to match more in the twenty million range.

693
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be able to aggregate salaries either, so that

694
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: gets tough. Cleveland's tough to trade with. Yeah, but Jared

695
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: Allen's an interesting idea, right.

696
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that one's kind of interesting. And then I

697
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: got two pipe drinking candidates from teams that certainly should

698
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: not have interest in trading these players, but are complete

699
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: dumpster fire organizationally right now. So maybe they make a

700
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: huge shakeup this summer. Bam At a Baio and John Morant.

701
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: This is the Heat are not trading bam Ata Bio

702
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: to the Boston Celtics specifically. I do want to be

703
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: clear that I'm not stupid, but bam Adebio and John

704
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: Morant are two teams that are, if not going to

705
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: make huge changes this summer, probably should make huge changes

706
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: this summer. And I'm wondering if either of those guys

707
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: might be on the move.

708
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: In their driving kick system. And we've discussed this. The

709
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: Celtics just don't pressure the room enough, yeah, to get

710
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: the types of quality threes when things really bogged down

711
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: because Tatum's first step was never quite good enough to

712
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: beat elite defenders off the dribble.

713
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: And Jalen Brown's handle isn't good enough to beat every

714
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: elite defender off the dribble.

715
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 2: So let's think, if I'm getting rid of Jaw, if

716
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: I'm Memphis, what do I want in return?

717
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what Memphis wants to do is

718
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: the thing because they are sort of locked into a

719
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: multiple more years of Desmond Band and Jaron Jackson. They

720
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: are paying those guys a lot of them. Okay, that's

721
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: why are they trying to stay relevant? If they're trying

722
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: to stay relevant, y'all Wandrew Holliday and a bunch of

723
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: first round picks. I would give up a lot of

724
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 1: first round picks obviously for John Moran.

725
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: Would you give up Jalen Brown for John Moran?

726
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: I would consider it.

727
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: So I want to three. I'd want to three. So

728
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: what what if you were like, but you could flip

729
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 2: Drew for a three? So yeah, Like what about a yeah?

730
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown for John Moran is super interesting on a

731
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: couple of different level. It's for starters. The weakness of Memphis'

732
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: roster is the three.

733
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

734
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: That's literally this spot on their roster where their weakest.

735
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 2: It allows them to pivot off of Jaw. Joe gets

736
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: a fresh start with a team that's actually like kind

737
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: of built as a drive and kick structure that kind

738
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: of fits his game super well. He'd be a beautiful

739
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: two man game partner with Jason Tatum. You wouldn't have

740
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: to do any sort of weird things with salary because

741
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: Memphis is way under the cap in the new year,

742
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: So you could straight up trade Jalen Brown for John Morant. Okay,

743
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 2: so let me put you on the spot about this.

744
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: Brad Stevens calls Memphis offers straight up Jalen Brown for

745
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 2: John Moran. Who's more likely to say no, Boston?

746
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: I think Boston. I think Memphis wants to trade Drammer.

747
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: I think they just I think they just can't stomach

748
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: it without getting a like an all star in return.

749
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: And dude, it's pretty easy to sell Jalen Brown. I'm

750
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. He's got its deficiencies, but it's a

751
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: pretty easy sell.

752
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: And in addition to that, I immediately shed fourteen million

753
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 2: dollars in salary. Yeah, that's a really interesting trade.

754
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: You change Jalen Brown for John Morant, you turn Drew

755
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: and Kris STAPs into some version of what we talked

756
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: about earlier. You're looking at a weird brand nude roster basically,

757
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: but a very fun Southeast basketball team.

758
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: And John Moran always has like injury related issues, where

759
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 2: would be so easy to just like be like, hey,

760
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: you're sitting down for the next two weeks or we

761
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: can get a great draft.

762
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: Oh for sure next season, yeah, one hundred percent. Like

763
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: if you trade Jalen Brown for John Morant, you can

764
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: turn you turn Drew Holliday into into Derek Lively or

765
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: Daniel Gafford. Dude, all of a sudden, you got in

766
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: twenty whatever, twenty six, twenty seven season, John Morant, Sam Houser,

767
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum, someone else and Dark Lively is a pretty

768
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: fun grouping of players.

769
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 2: Is there? So in this theoretical scenario, if I'm getting

770
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: rid of Drew and Jalen, I'm getting rid of my

771
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: two best point of attack defenders by far. Do you

772
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: think Derek White is up to the task of being

773
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 2: the primary point of attack guy for a championship team.

774
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, not really.

775
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: I feel like he.

776
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: Is strange for being a really good defender, a really

777
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: good defensive player. He's strangely not like the most just

778
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: guard guy one on one good. He's very smart, and

779
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: he gets a lot of weak side rotation blocks and

780
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: a lot of transition blocks. He's a great at closeouts.

781
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: He's an awesome defender, but he is not the type

782
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: of just throw him at an other team's best guard

783
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: and like hope for stops type of guy in my opinion.

784
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so then basically what you have to do

785
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 2: is essentially view the future as meaning like next year

786
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: in the following year, as like you just got to

787
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: try to find the next guy who will be your

788
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: primary point of attack guy. And that could literally be

789
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: in these trades that we've pitched in this particular scenario.

790
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: So let's call it. Uh, let's say you flip Drew

791
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: because Drew has immediate value to Dallas, and you flip Brown,

792
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: who has immediate value to Memphis. In this situation, you

793
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: would still have your draft compensation, and so then you

794
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: could try to look to move one of these guys

795
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: for a primary point of attack guard. That's where it's like,

796
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 2: maybe you look at Orlando and you go, like, now,

797
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: let's talk Derek White for Jalen Sugs.

798
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. That's that's what I'm saying. A

799
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: Ja Morant, a Jamarant, Jalen Suggs, Sam Howser, Jason Tatum,

800
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: Daniel Gafford. A starting lineup is so weird that it's

801
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: kind of breaking my brain. But of all the pivots

802
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: you could make, you know, I think we designed a

803
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: pretty good one for the Celtics.

804
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: I like it. I like there's I was listening to

805
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: Pete Zais earlier today, was talking with Anthony Iron about

806
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 2: some Lakers stuff, and he's like, I think we need

807
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: to take a hatchet to the roster this summer. So

808
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: you're Jackson's here saying we need to take a hat

809
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 2: I'm taking a hash.

810
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm definitely taking a hatchet with these brands. It's not

811
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: this is not minor tweaks. You know, I expect him

812
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: more to do just do a minor tweaks around the

813
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: type of summer than this. But you know, if they're

814
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: gonna make changes anybody else on your list, Uh No,

815
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: that's pretty much it. I mean BAM was the other

816
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: pipe dream one.

817
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 2: But BAM, Yeah, and yeah, the BAM is an interesting one,

818
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: but he definitely would have to go to a different

819
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: team first, before the before you could even potentially pull

820
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: something like that off. That's super interesting though. That was

821
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: the the Jalen Brown for Jahn Morant thing. Is a

822
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: very very interesting trade to consider because the specific dynamic

823
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: that Boston has been missing over the years is a

824
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: singular trait that no team can fuck with everything with

825
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: them has been aggregate talent, even like Tatum's game in

826
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 2: and of itself is an aggregation of a bunch of

827
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: different pieces that he's very good at but not elite at,

828
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: and Jahn Morant brings the singular trait, which is no

829
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: one can keep him in front off the dribble, and

830
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: that could be a foundational piece that Tatum could be

831
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: basically a force multiplier for because his versatility becomes very

832
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: valuable in the context of a team that like, like,

833
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: there's no way you lose Game one and two of

834
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: this series if you have John Morant, because he's just

835
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: going to be able to get you two or three

836
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: more buckets down the stretch of a game, because he

837
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: has been one of the most dynamic clutch players in

838
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: the league, because no one can stop him from popping

839
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: up off the ground seven feet from the basket and

840
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: shooting a little floater that no one can guard and

841
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: you just have to sit there and go, please miss it, Jah,

842
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: or hopefully we're up by fifteen before he gets there. Like,

843
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: as frustrating as a player as he's been, he does

844
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: have that upside. But this is a really fun exercise.

845
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 2: Jackson I think we're gonna save the mailbag for playback?

846
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: What do you think?

847
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: Yeah?

848
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: So all right, everybody head over to playback dot tv

849
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 2: Slash shoots tonight. We'll do another forty five minutes of

850
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 2: hanging out, we'll take callers, we'll get into the chat.

851
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us

852
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 2: in supporting the show. We'll be back on YouTube tomorrow.

853
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: We have tomorrow off. Oh my goodness, today is the

854
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: twenty eighth consecutive night that we have done this, but

855
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: we are taking tomorrow night off because there are no games.

856
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 2: But tomorrow I will be working on the series preview

857
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: for Nick Pacers that will most likely be up on

858
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: Sunday morning. Sunday afternoon. I'm actually going live with Colin

859
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: right after the game, so Oops tonight will be about

860
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: an hour after that we'll be going, but we'll have

861
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: something on Saturday or on Sunday afternoon after the Nuggets

862
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: Thunder game. As always, again, we appreciate you guys and

863
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: we will see you next time. What so, guys, As always,

864
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: I appreciate you for listening to and supporting Oops tonight.

865
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: They would actually be really helpful for us if you

866
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 2: guys would take a second and leave a rating and

867
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us,

868
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: but if you could take a minute to do that,

869
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. The volume