Speaker 1: So I whip out my deck and of course I
Speaker 1: now have like four beautiful women staring at it. I
Speaker 1: get pa shy. I can't fucking pee for the life
Speaker 1: of me, and you can tell. And one of them
Speaker 1: just like essentially starts damming me to pee, and I'm
Speaker 1: so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2: And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also
Speaker 2: so what is it done?
Speaker 1: Just feel like, Zach, you have to fucking pee. If not,
Speaker 1: you're not a real man like emasculating man.
Speaker 3: Oh you know what we do here, destroy shame around
Speaker 3: sex by talking about sex.
Speaker 2: Now, let me tell you something messy. So I have
Speaker 2: received messages from y'all about loads and uh, somebody sent
Speaker 2: me a message saying, my pussy is so filled up
Speaker 2: with come, I don't know what to do, uh, which
Speaker 2: you know I love that y'all come to messy Mo
Speaker 2: for advice. My advice was to simply push it out
Speaker 2: when somebody said they're just bragging, which you know I
Speaker 2: love when y'all brag about your filled up kittie. But
Speaker 2: somebody else said, the most effective method I've found is
Speaker 2: more of a scoop with your finger technique. Pushing doesn't
Speaker 2: get the whole load, and then you're all drippy. Obviously
Speaker 2: the more you ho somebody else offered, I hear the
Speaker 2: best method is to gag on something while you push.
Speaker 2: If y'all understand, if you know, you know um, And
Speaker 2: somebody else says, agreed that that is true. A gag
Speaker 2: or a cough pushes it right out, and then somebody else, Hello,
Speaker 2: my messy patron, said a partner, sucking it out. Look
Speaker 2: at all these we are a community here, and we
Speaker 2: are going to teach you how to push that load out.
Speaker 2: And I will say I do think pushing the load
Speaker 2: out is important. I learned this because my boyfriend and
Speaker 2: I when we first got together, we were going to
Speaker 2: a party, but we decided to obviously meet up before,
Speaker 2: and we fucked before, flipped all the things, and then
Speaker 2: you know, we gave each other our baby juice. And
Speaker 2: like I thought it was hot to keep the baby
Speaker 2: juice in. I gotta find a new work. I thought
Speaker 2: it was hot to keep the cream filling in. Like
Speaker 2: I'm a twinkie. I wanted to be a twinkie that night.
Speaker 2: So we were like, let's keep it in and go
Speaker 2: to this party and then maybe like two hours into
Speaker 2: the party, both of our stomachs were wreck gurgling nothing no,
Speaker 2: but like not not in the number two sets because
Speaker 2: we were douche so it wasn't nothing coming out, but
Speaker 2: just like that come in the guts with the enzymes.
Speaker 2: I'm not a scientist, and with the bacteria and with
Speaker 2: the lining of the colon, I'm not a scientist. I
Speaker 2: think started to do something. We were like, oh, we
Speaker 2: have to leave, and so we left, went home and
Speaker 2: we ordered I think Jack in the Box, which is
Speaker 2: my first time having Jack in the Box. All this
Speaker 2: to say it is important to push out your low
Speaker 2: and find the way to push it out. The way
Speaker 2: I like to push it out now is because I
Speaker 2: feel like I can keep it in for like an
Speaker 2: hour or so, but then I really do want to
Speaker 2: get it out if I can get out immediately, especially
Speaker 2: if I fuck before I go out, and then I'm
Speaker 2: gonna fox some more. Just go to the bathroom, sit
Speaker 2: down and push. Same way I got that butt plug out,
Speaker 2: which I don't know if I've told you that story
Speaker 2: but not today, but you know, when the butt plug
Speaker 2: got lost inside me, I had to sit on the
Speaker 2: toilet and push. Okay, so sit on the toilet push
Speaker 2: or use the finger technique or have a partner suck out.
Speaker 2: Either way works. By the way, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: This is tell me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon
Speaker 2: Kyle Goodman. Some people call me messy mom, but you
Speaker 2: can call me the pussy plumber. Okay, boom march done. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's get the show started.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 2: You know what that means. It's time for I guess Now,
Speaker 2: while they get situated, we'll get our messy key key
Speaker 2: started with a hoe manifest stove repeat after me aloud
Speaker 2: or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpact
Speaker 2: my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know
Speaker 2: that sex is not just about penetration, the audacity to
Speaker 2: advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not
Speaker 2: call my ex that fuck boyfuck girl, or fuck lay,
Speaker 2: for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace
Speaker 2: than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let
Speaker 2: the community say oh lelujah. Now, before I introduce our guests,
Speaker 2: I just want to give you a heads up. There's
Speaker 2: a little bit of some audio glitchy things, but the
Speaker 2: conversation is so incredible. It is worth it to navigate
Speaker 2: some of the glitchings. Honey, we're messy. We're messy here, Okay. Now,
Speaker 2: I am so excited to have Zachary Zaane on the show. Now,
Speaker 2: let me give you a little bio. We like to
Speaker 2: we like to let the people know who is here. So.
Speaker 2: Zachary Zane is a columnist and author whose work focuses
Speaker 2: on sexuality, culture, and the LGBTQ community. He is the
Speaker 2: author of boy Slut, a memoir and manifesto which I
Speaker 2: highly recommend, and co author of Men's Health Best Sex Ever.
Speaker 2: He writes sexplain It, the sex and relationship advice column
Speaker 2: at Men's Health, and Navigating non Monogamy, the polyamorous relationship
Speaker 2: column at Cosmopolitan. Bitch you are writing Okay. He is
Speaker 2: editor in chief at The Boycelet Zine, which publishes non
Speaker 2: fiction erotica from Kinkster's across the globe. His work has
Speaker 2: been featured in New York Times, Rolling Stone, Washington Post,
Speaker 2: play Boy, and more. Y'all please tell me welcome, Zachary.
Speaker 1: Say hi, nach I'm so excited to be here. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to talk to you. I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be so much fun. We're gonna do
Speaker 2: a lou breaker, but then I'll gush around you more.
Speaker 2: But you know, Baker, you know what I'm saying. Okay,
Speaker 2: So the game is, would you or rather? Are you
Speaker 2: down to play? Of course? Love it? What if you
Speaker 2: were like, no bench, no thank you, I'm gonna pass.
Speaker 1: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Okay? Uh, well everyone knows, how would you rather go?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you two options, and you're gonna tell
Speaker 2: me which you would rather. So here we go. Would
Speaker 2: you rather? These are actually from messy patrons and I'm obsessed. Okay,
Speaker 2: So would you rather make out with someone who has
Speaker 2: bad breath? Or get your hole eaten by someone who's
Speaker 2: a little teethy?
Speaker 1: The bad breath is like I really dislike that, you know,
Speaker 1: and and I feel bad and like I my breath
Speaker 1: in the morning.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: My partner describes it as a seagull shitting in my
Speaker 1: mouth because literally literally the meds that I'm on, my
Speaker 1: sleeping meds and anxiety meds, they dry out your mouth.
Speaker 1: So in the morning it is like I like, I
Speaker 1: go to give them a kiss, and lately they're just
Speaker 1: like they're like I love your stick. I'm like it's
Speaker 1: so bad, so I feel bad for them. I feel
Speaker 1: bad for me again, How did that come up?
Speaker 2: How did your partner what? Like what was the context?
Speaker 2: Were you like, let me kiss you early? More like
Speaker 2: your your bread smells like a seagull shitting.
Speaker 1: I mean I I can taste it. It's that bad.
Speaker 1: So I knew this, so it wasn't like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is news to me.
Speaker 2: Well, everyone has morning bread like.
Speaker 1: Like disgusting, like like really disgusting, and I'm like, I'll
Speaker 1: go brush my teeth and they're like, no, it's fine,
Speaker 1: it's fine, honey. I love you. I'm like, that's really sweet.
Speaker 2: I love you.
Speaker 1: But again, I'm trying to think, how do you even
Speaker 1: get teeth into a butthole?
Speaker 2: Like like that would be feel like it's like your
Speaker 2: your your I on the whole in your you're like
Speaker 2: as you're eating it, you're also like dragging your teeth
Speaker 2: on it, or you're biting the hole a little bit,
Speaker 2: a little bit teethy. It's not full teeth.
Speaker 1: I would say teeth y because I'd feel more comfortable
Speaker 1: telling someone like, hey, watch the teeth, as opposed to
Speaker 1: being like, oh, your breath is bad, which is I
Speaker 1: feel like a more personal attack, so like like your
Speaker 1: brother's bad, like no, gross, don't kiss me, as opposed
Speaker 1: to like I've gotten head. That's a little bit teeth.
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, careful of the teeth. And you say that,
Speaker 1: and that's not something that's like insulting the same way
Speaker 1: and that like breath is insulting. So I'd go with
Speaker 1: Who knows, I might like a little teeth on the
Speaker 1: booty hole.
Speaker 2: I might actually enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, I'd go with that one
Speaker 1: just because I'd feel more comfortable saying something.
Speaker 2: I'm also making out is like my is my biggest
Speaker 2: turn on or one of my biggest turn ons, So
Speaker 2: I too would choose the teeth because you're right, maybe
Speaker 2: I would, Like I did just learn from somebody I
Speaker 2: was hanging out with a little while ago, and they
Speaker 2: love and they didn't say teeth on the whole, but
Speaker 2: they love like biting, like they have a biting k kink,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 1: So many people knew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they taught me. I didn't know how to do
Speaker 2: that properly, so they taught me how to to bite
Speaker 2: them and like how to graize their arm with my
Speaker 2: teeth and it was very they were enjoying it. It
Speaker 2: was hot to me. I don't. I haven't had it
Speaker 2: done to me, so I don't. I can't. Jury's out,
Speaker 2: but my partner.
Speaker 1: Is very bity. Just for if that's the word. I
Speaker 1: feel like you can see I got like hickey's still
Speaker 1: on me, and I kind of love getting hickeys. I
Speaker 1: feel like I haven't had one since I was like seventeen,
Speaker 1: and then to like get it again, I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is cute and it's got a little reminder that they're there.
Speaker 1: I obviously work in a profession where like, if I
Speaker 1: come in with a hickey, it's exploded of me. No
Speaker 1: one cares, so, like I don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 1: But it's something that I've kind of been cute. See.
Speaker 1: It makes me feel young in a fun way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you love that.
Speaker 2: Okay. This one is would you rather get fingered by
Speaker 2: someone who has long nails or have intercourse with someone
Speaker 2: who sweats like they're in the steam room?
Speaker 1: Oh definitely the sweat. No, the long nail. That fucking hurts.
Speaker 1: That that is like, that is a painful thing. You
Speaker 1: scratched the inside of your ass, like you're gonna get
Speaker 1: a fisher, like you can bleed that shit is I've
Speaker 1: had that happen. That is not fun. Sweat is hot,
Speaker 1: like sweat like like sweat, I mean literally, but like
Speaker 1: that's if you're into it and you're both sweating and
Speaker 1: like that can be like a really sensual thing. I
Speaker 1: have some partners or people I know who are just like, hey,
Speaker 1: I sweat profusely during sex. I have like a I
Speaker 1: have like a squirt sheet, like a like a what
Speaker 1: do you mean a sports sheet? So like it's like
Speaker 1: this latex sheet like a fitted bed sheet that I
Speaker 1: put on and it's for like messy play, messy play
Speaker 1: for you got to sponsor them. You gotta start to
Speaker 1: them immediately. Partnership needs to happen.
Speaker 2: It's smirch sportsheets. Messheets. Okay, so it's four, but like
Speaker 2: is it clean up easy?
Speaker 1: Like what what do you exactly? You know? So it
Speaker 1: cleans up super easy. You just have to wipe it
Speaker 1: down with like a washcloth. But like for people who
Speaker 1: are doing like fisting with a ton of like j
Speaker 1: loop that viscous thing loob. For people who do piss play,
Speaker 1: vomit play or just score a ship ton. That's what
Speaker 1: this is for.
Speaker 2: From you, from you have to talk about this, but continue.
Speaker 1: It's and it's so easy just put I put it
Speaker 1: like literally on top of my regular sheet, so I
Speaker 1: can just take that off afterwards, wipe it down, be
Speaker 1: good to go. And I have people who just swept profusely.
Speaker 1: It's like I don't want to do my sheets after
Speaker 1: like every time.
Speaker 2: Like and even if you're just.
Speaker 1: Having anal sex and you just use a shit ton
Speaker 1: of lube, you don't want to fucking wipe it on
Speaker 1: your pillow sheets. Or I've had literally top just wipe
Speaker 1: the lube on my ass and I'm like, okay, come on, guys,
Speaker 1: like I like, wipe it on my thigh. I'm like,
Speaker 1: fuck you, dude, like you like you fucking serious right now.
Speaker 1: Like but just like even when you're using a shit
Speaker 1: ton of lube, a silicon lube in particular, fucking fox
Speaker 1: with the sheets and say it like, it's it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier.
Speaker 2: Zach I had this. I bought this, uh do they
Speaker 2: cover from uh A one of these fancy Yeah we're
Speaker 2: talking about Dovey cover. So it was fancy and uh
Speaker 2: I ruined it with loop yeah it was. It's like
Speaker 2: ruined it now so now it's the sex sheet. But
Speaker 2: now I'm thinking, okay, I should actually get a legit
Speaker 2: sex sheet. How much yet? And I'm gonna report back, please, patrons,
Speaker 2: and to text You'll be like this was this was
Speaker 2: fire and if it wasn't, I'm gonna let you know
Speaker 2: that too that because I know you want my opinion.
Speaker 2: Please listen, baby, you won the game. Yeah, you won.
Speaker 2: You win my unconditional love, which is what everyone is
Speaker 2: buying for a clear messy Patrons, if you have any
Speaker 2: prompts or other games that you want to play, just
Speaker 2: email that to tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Now,
Speaker 2: speaking of messy, Zach, will you tell me something messy?
Speaker 1: Sure? So I was thinking about this and I was thinking, like,
Speaker 1: do I want to do something that's like literally messy
Speaker 1: or figuratively messy? And I think I found one that
Speaker 1: kind of combines a little bit of both.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I knew I see when I when
Speaker 2: I when you were coming on the show. By the way,
Speaker 2: I had asked people like who guess should be and
Speaker 2: your name came up quite a number of times. I
Speaker 2: was like, of course, already doing it.
Speaker 1: Don't I feel honored.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, oh my girl, it's gonna come
Speaker 2: with the mess, So go ahead, baby.
Speaker 1: So I was at a Fullsome East. Okay, so like
Speaker 1: like so fulsome fears like in San Francisco and that
Speaker 1: people have sex on the street. There are piss pools.
Speaker 1: You're allowed to kind of do that the fulsome East.
Speaker 2: It's regulated, by the way, and maybe next year I really.
Speaker 1: Do want to go fullsome East. You can't like have nudity,
Speaker 1: you can you don't have the piss pools. You can't fuck.
Speaker 1: And again that's like people are being like that's so lame,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's literally the city of New York,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's like it's in the City of New York.
Speaker 1: It's on the street. And so I'm so my girlfriend
Speaker 1: is a pro dom and she's like by uh usually
Speaker 1: dates women. I often date men. And then obviously I'm
Speaker 1: by two and I'm meeting her friends for the first time.
Speaker 1: So her friends are all like bisexual or lesbian domes
Speaker 1: as well pro doms as well, and.
Speaker 2: So they're all fucking of doms, a.
Speaker 1: Gaggle of what would be like the word forget, like
Speaker 1: a a.
Speaker 4: Fury of doms a like, yeah, there's got to be
Speaker 4: like a good word for it, but a h anyway,
Speaker 4: But like, so I'm meeting my partners like friends for
Speaker 4: the first time, yes, meeting them in this context.
Speaker 1: They're all gorgeous. They're all like, don't fuck around because
Speaker 1: they're doms, and they have very good boundaries and they're
Speaker 1: slightly intimidating. And so we're there and towards the end,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been drinking, we have to pee. And
Speaker 1: for a place that didn't want it was trying to
Speaker 1: discourage public urination play, there really wasn't that many bathrooms
Speaker 1: to use. So it's at the end and what they
Speaker 1: end up doing because they all are into piss play.
Speaker 1: They're all fucking into piss play, like obsessed with that.
Speaker 2: So a gaggle of doms who are all into piss play.
Speaker 1: Yes, So one of them lays over like the subway
Speaker 1: grates or like the drain whatever that is. And again,
Speaker 1: you are not supposed to be doing this. Where are
Speaker 1: we but we are in So we're just really on
Speaker 1: the street of like New York I think it's in
Speaker 1: like the West, like around Hell's Kitchen region, I think
Speaker 1: it was. And you're on the street. So one of
Speaker 1: them lays down on the grate or I don't know,
Speaker 1: have great the right word on that whatever that thing is,
Speaker 1: and they're like they all just start like pissing on her.
Speaker 1: I like, and again, you are not supposed to be
Speaker 1: doing this, And the joy on their faces, they are ecstatic,
Speaker 1: they are so happy, all of them just like elevated,
Speaker 1: as like these three women are pissing on them. And
Speaker 1: and Eve, my partner was like, Zach you to P two,
Speaker 1: like you can peel. Is this a nighttime No, this
Speaker 1: is like maybe like five PM like like and people
Speaker 1: are definitely like watching us do this. And I'm like
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, like, Zach you' to P two
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I was like, hey, do you
Speaker 1: feel comfortable and she was like yeah, Sack, I love
Speaker 1: you to do this. So I whip out my dick
Speaker 1: and of course I now have like four beautiful women
Speaker 1: staring at it. I get pa, Shai, I can't fucking
Speaker 1: pee for the life of me, and you can tell.
Speaker 1: And one of them just like essentially starts domming me
Speaker 1: to pee, and I'm so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2: And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also so,
Speaker 2: what is it done?
Speaker 1: It would just be like, Zach, you have to fucking pee.
Speaker 1: If not, you're not a real man, like a masculating man.
Speaker 1: Oh I am like, and I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And Eve was like, you can do this, you can
Speaker 1: do this. I get like a little bit of pee out,
Speaker 1: like just enough that I was accepted by the friend group.
Speaker 1: I'm not emasculated.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: And I that was I feel like my initiation process.
Speaker 1: And since then her friends have liked me.
Speaker 2: So uh.
Speaker 1: I always find it funny because like I date, when
Speaker 1: I date women, I haven't dated a straight woman in
Speaker 1: years since I've come out as by Actually I'm not him.
Speaker 1: That was in twenty fifteen Public life. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: in part because straight women won't date me, right that
Speaker 1: that's not what it is. But I date like by women,
Speaker 1: And it's always funny because, like I think gay men
Speaker 1: often think of ourselves as being very kinky, and and
Speaker 1: in many ways we are. We were getting fisted, we're
Speaker 1: eating ass, we're doing piss. We'll like yeah, but we
Speaker 1: do like a lot of like anonymity and like sex
Speaker 1: parties and that type of stuff versus like lesbians the
Speaker 1: kinky lesbians or by women that I know. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we do blood play and put needles in each other,
Speaker 1: like like it is a much more play.
Speaker 2: And what needle? What kind of need what's in the needle.
Speaker 1: It's no, nothing's in the needle. But it's just about
Speaker 1: you have like a piercing fetish. Do you kind of
Speaker 1: you can put it through the skin I've seen like
Speaker 1: or you can pierce the skin the way that will
Speaker 1: bleed and then they put like a cup on it,
Speaker 1: like the cupping devices that you do on acupuncture, which
Speaker 1: like brings and draws out the blood.
Speaker 2: What do you do with the blood?
Speaker 1: Whatever the fuck you want to do that? You could
Speaker 1: fuck with it? You put it in vials and wear
Speaker 1: it around each other's necks.
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 1: I'm not a by woman, I'm not lesbian. You got
Speaker 1: to ask that, Brandon, you wantau it's or maybe this
Speaker 1: is just the women that I know. Obviously I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to stereotype of groups.
Speaker 2: But but like, but this exists, this type of play exists,
Speaker 2: and so making notes we need to have we need
Speaker 2: we need to have a separate deeper dive episode. Okay,
Speaker 2: go ahead, there's a.
Speaker 1: I feel like in most cities, I've heard of a
Speaker 1: vampire dyke party and this is like like a common one,
Speaker 1: and that's one that is more blood play and needle
Speaker 1: play focus, and I feel like that exists in most
Speaker 1: major cities. But it's just so funny because you know,
Speaker 1: before dating my partner, like I thought like, oh, I'm kinky,
Speaker 1: like I do some crazy shit, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: really different type of kinky than she is. And obviously
Speaker 1: we'll be meet in the middle of but we have it.
Speaker 1: But like she will say things that you should have
Speaker 1: her on the show. But there's one story that I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to say and that I'm done. One of
Speaker 1: her favorite clients could not have meat and he's never
Speaker 1: had meat before. So what he wanted was she jerked
Speaker 1: him off with brashuto and he, I'm like, came immediately
Speaker 1: came in the burshudo and then he and that was
Speaker 1: the first time he ever had like meat.
Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, I forgot this is a this is an
Speaker 2: audio meeting my jaw, like.
Speaker 1: The creativity of doms. I don't think like people like
Speaker 1: the story she says, and it's like, fuck, I'm a
Speaker 1: sex columnist. I hear people. I've received hundreds of messages
Speaker 1: from people sharing their sex stories whatever it is. I
Speaker 1: read books on this. I am educated in this, Like
Speaker 1: this is what I do. I'm not like this guy
Speaker 1: doesn't know his fucking shit. And I'm like and she'll
Speaker 1: say the stuff and I'm like, Holy mother of God,
Speaker 1: like I just created. There's so much to sex that like,
Speaker 1: even as someone who's a quote unquote expert, I hate
Speaker 1: that word. I like saying I'm a columnist and that
Speaker 1: is what I do. I'm a writer first, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But like there's still I mean, I
Speaker 1: read your book, you know, I know some stuff. I
Speaker 1: know some stuff. But yeah, the if you want to
Speaker 1: fucking messy, messy ass episode, come on.
Speaker 2: Wait, I have so many.
Speaker 1: Yeah, any questions, concerns.
Speaker 2: I'm still on the subway, great, just a little bit,
Speaker 2: just a little bit. I just want to know after I.
Speaker 1: Does the actually go down into the subway on.
Speaker 2: Like are you peeing on people below? And my other
Speaker 2: question is, well afterwards does the person who got peed
Speaker 2: on are y'all going home?
Speaker 1: Shockingly, I was like, hey, I have a spare shirt, oh,
Speaker 1: like if you want one because or whatever.
Speaker 2: It was kind to have some water on you too.
Speaker 1: No, everyone was she did not smell. She was well
Speaker 1: like I think we were all just very hydrate. Well, no,
Speaker 1: we were tricky like beer. I don't know how, but
Speaker 1: for whatever the reason, she like afterwards, she put on
Speaker 1: my shirt and we went out dancing at a club.
Speaker 2: That's because it's the gaggle of lesbian dogs. Oh that's
Speaker 2: not the magic, the magic well heaven of don.
Speaker 1: Com of dosh.
Speaker 2: Okay, I love that thing. You. I forgot what we're doing, messy.
Speaker 2: There have so many questions, right, great, let's move into
Speaker 2: so Mike actually, so I'll actually make it about sex
Speaker 2: in general and how expansive it is. I think what's
Speaker 2: so exciting about talking to you and about these stories
Speaker 2: is realizing that there are just so many experiences that
Speaker 2: I haven't had or like even dared to dream of.
Speaker 2: Because my thing here with with this show is that
Speaker 2: I'm also learning along with anything else. But it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I thought that, like that was pushing my boundary, but
Speaker 2: then you're telling me, no, we're laying on a grate
Speaker 2: and having somebody on my at five pm, and like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1: You can't even and like, what's funny is even I
Speaker 1: have pretty boring sex, like like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like we enjoy it obviously, but I guess maybe boring
Speaker 1: is not the right word. But it's it's vanilla.
Speaker 2: Vanilla Okay, Oh I got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's viennilla where it's just like we say I
Speaker 1: love you and like missionary or doggie, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, and everyone's just like romantic. How does the
Speaker 1: man that calls himself the boy slut and a pro
Speaker 1: dom that. I'm like, it's because we're lazy and tired,
Speaker 1: and that is the truth of it.
Speaker 2: And it is multitude, so it's in multitudes.
Speaker 1: But we finally did. And I've never really asked her
Speaker 1: been dating almost a year and hooking up a little
Speaker 1: bit longer, and like I never really asked her to
Speaker 1: dom me because I'm like, hey, this is this is
Speaker 1: your job, you know what I mean, And you don't
Speaker 1: want to come home from work and do this, And
Speaker 1: imagining if I wrote for ten hours a day and
Speaker 1: he was like, hey, do you want to write more,
Speaker 1: I'd be like no, fuck you, like like absolutely good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I also like and this was maybe my own insecurity.
Speaker 1: I was a little bit afraid of being like a
Speaker 1: client to hers, you know what, I wanted to be special.
Speaker 1: I'm her boyfriend, I'm her partner. She loves me, and
Speaker 1: I didn't want her necessarily in this head space of
Speaker 1: this is what I do with clients, and now I'm
Speaker 1: doing this my boyfriend and being on par and I
Speaker 1: voice this concern and she was like, Zack, I've done
Speaker 1: this with past romantic partners, and like, it is different.
Speaker 1: Trust me, it's a different mindset when I really do
Speaker 1: love someone, and it's not gonna be a typical session
Speaker 1: what I do with you. But we just did our
Speaker 1: first like we you know, we got a room in
Speaker 1: her dungeon. We rented it out, and we did our
Speaker 1: first scene like this, which the climax of it, without
Speaker 1: getting too much into it, was I had a butt plug,
Speaker 1: a vibrating but or anal beads inside of me, and
Speaker 1: she saran wrapped me and completely sarano so I cannot
Speaker 1: move except for my dick. My dick is out. So
Speaker 1: then she edges me while I'm letting it on a
Speaker 1: massage table. And every time you're about to come, she
Speaker 1: you know, she can feel it. And she stops, but
Speaker 1: she has a she uses like the wand on your
Speaker 1: friendulum or like the base of your dick, and is
Speaker 1: jerking you off, and right as you're about to come,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, she'll stop. And I wanted to like this
Speaker 1: is something we'd like talked about. It was super hot.
Speaker 1: I was brandon. I was so fucking nervous, like in
Speaker 1: a way that I was not expecting. And it's like
Speaker 1: it's like, Eve, of course I trust you, I love you,
Speaker 1: but like I went in, I didn't know like I was,
Speaker 1: and like she like literally at one point laid on
Speaker 1: top of me and was like zack box breathing in
Speaker 1: for fours for four out for four. When she lays
Speaker 1: on top of me, that always calms me down right.
Speaker 1: It's like a way to blanket. But it was such
Speaker 1: a fun thing. But at the end, I thought she
Speaker 1: was gonna make me come, and she's like didn't. I
Speaker 1: was like wait, and I'm begging for her to make
Speaker 1: me come. Like she's like, well, you want to do
Speaker 1: an edging seat. I was like yeah, but I fucking come.
Speaker 1: At the end, that's all the fucking all the fuck.
Speaker 1: And then like literally so we go home, we have dinner,
Speaker 1: we're out in the city, we go home, and the
Speaker 1: moment we get in bed, I'm like, we need to
Speaker 1: have so She's like, yeah, that was the whole point.
Speaker 1: I want you to fucking come and me and not fucking.
Speaker 2: Oh do this that's so romantic. How long does the
Speaker 2: edging seed last? Uh?
Speaker 1: So we were in there for about so the first
Speaker 1: of it's like me taking off her boots and kind
Speaker 1: of worshiping her. The actual like edging portion of it
Speaker 1: is maybe like forty minutes, and like, you know, like
Speaker 1: she also like for me, she was kind of like
Speaker 1: sixty nine ing where I was like eating her ass
Speaker 1: while she was blowing me too, and I can't fucking again,
Speaker 1: I'm wrapped up like a in a cocoon almost.
Speaker 2: It sounds like so romantic to me.
Speaker 1: It was cut romantic again. It was really cute. And
Speaker 1: like I remember, when I got there, we hadn't discussed
Speaker 1: what I call her. I'm like, do I call it?
Speaker 1: She goes my mistress Eve is usually what it is,
Speaker 1: and people call her mistress. I'm like, do I call you?
Speaker 1: And I'm like yes. She says something like take off
Speaker 1: your clothes and neatly put them in the corner. I go, yes,
Speaker 1: and what do I call you? Mistress? And she's no,
Speaker 1: that actually that that's weird for me for her okay,
Speaker 1: because that I maybe would be. I'm like, how about
Speaker 1: Eve and she's like, yes, just call me by my name?
Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, that can I You've already shared so much,
Speaker 2: but I would like you to share her Sure you down?
Speaker 2: Because basically, so I get asked about We've had this
Speaker 2: conversation offline, but I get asked about sex party. So
Speaker 2: here's a submission that somebody sent in that I feel
Speaker 2: like we can talk about together. That sounds cool, perfect, beautiful.
Speaker 2: So this says I'm going to my first sex party
Speaker 2: this weekend. I'm excited but also so nervous. Can I
Speaker 2: please have a sex party? One oh one now? So
Speaker 2: we won't do this? You and me, we wanna do this.
Speaker 2: Mostly it's gonna be you, okay, but but I think
Speaker 2: I'll try and and and start us off. Which is
Speaker 2: what the fuck is a sex party? It seems so obvious,
Speaker 2: but like, what is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess it's a place where people get together
Speaker 1: and have sex.
Speaker 2: And where does this happen?
Speaker 1: So a lot of them happen at like private clubs. Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because that's a way that
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're legally allowed to do this, because
Speaker 1: it is sometimes a little legal gray area. There are
Speaker 1: some some are hosted for gay sex parties specifically. Some
Speaker 1: are hosted like at maybe the basement of a club,
Speaker 1: you know of a gay cruisy club that's kind of
Speaker 1: known for people to hook up in, and they might
Speaker 1: actually throw a more official party there, or you just
Speaker 1: might go and it's not necessarily a party, but people
Speaker 1: are having sex, right But and then also people do it,
Speaker 1: people rent out spaces.
Speaker 2: Okay, now I'll share that I went to my first
Speaker 2: sex party two years ago, I think was my very
Speaker 2: first sex party, and I was what was I feeling?
Speaker 2: I was incredibly excited, also terribly nervous. I went with
Speaker 2: two of my best friends and the biggest advice, which
Speaker 2: I always tell people, was you bring your hoe bag.
Speaker 2: So my best friend was, like, you need to have
Speaker 2: your little crossbody bag that you keep on you that
Speaker 2: as you know, your your wallet and whatever, but also
Speaker 2: like your lube and your your wipes and like whatever
Speaker 2: the things that you need during sex. Like that that
Speaker 2: is something because you check your clothes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you often check your clothes or some you don't,
Speaker 1: but it's like you definitely get to reveal in something
Speaker 1: super sexy that like you're not gonna have pockets or
Speaker 1: whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you love about sex parties? Like, let's
Speaker 2: I think that, like maybe we can talk about the specifics,
Speaker 2: but to begin the emotional space of like what what
Speaker 2: why a sex party? Why one might one be interested
Speaker 2: in it? And what do you personally like get out
Speaker 2: of a sex party?
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of things I get
Speaker 1: to have a sex party. Obviously, First, let's like discuss
Speaker 1: kind of the obvious. It's sex. Yeah, you get to
Speaker 1: have you get to have sex with new people. It's
Speaker 1: a space where that is allowed. Having that sexual freedom
Speaker 1: is very cool. Uh, Fucking in front of other people
Speaker 1: is very cool. Watching other people fuck is very cool.
Speaker 1: You know, It's different than the type of sex I
Speaker 1: have in my bedroom. There's also and what people talk
Speaker 1: about is like the sex positive community, so they really
Speaker 1: bring it up in a community context and so often
Speaker 1: not always, but the people who go to sex parties
Speaker 1: are potentially more open minded and you know, maybe on
Speaker 1: the same mission as you brand into working to help
Speaker 1: destigmatize shame and just so meeting other people with similar openness,
Speaker 1: who with similar sex positivity when we live in this
Speaker 1: world that is filled with sexual shame, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: like I feel like I found my people. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: a lot of the my friends come from like the
Speaker 1: sex again we call it like the sex positive community,
Speaker 1: but people who go to sex parties, that's like what
Speaker 1: it is, So it really is for many the community
Speaker 1: aspect is really interesting. It's a way for me, especially
Speaker 1: like of a sex party actually tomorrow night, speaking of which,
Speaker 1: but it's a way for me, especially when I'm with
Speaker 1: my partner and we start getting more boring or vanilla
Speaker 1: or just like not putting in necessarily the work to
Speaker 1: be you know, good sex takes work, especially with the
Speaker 1: same person over time. A sex party is almost like
Speaker 1: a cheat, at least for me, where just like it's
Speaker 1: so easy to just sign up and fucking go, as
Speaker 1: opposed to like everything else requires a little bit more
Speaker 1: planning or effort or whatever it is. Versus this is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to find a third together, and that's going
Speaker 1: to be a interesting experience. I get to watch you
Speaker 1: have sex, you get to watch me have sex, and
Speaker 1: so especially when I have a partner, I actually like
Speaker 1: to go to sex parties with them because that enhances
Speaker 1: our sex life and our connection and something like that
Speaker 1: and keeps things interesting and brings you know, new people
Speaker 1: into the mix.
Speaker 2: In terms of the liberation or witnessing the liberation is
Speaker 2: very I think healing, right. I think when you think
Speaker 2: of a sex party, your immediate thought is, oh, are
Speaker 2: these heathens? What are they diffling? But for me it's
Speaker 2: always been like when I got there, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: the liberation here and the community here truly is unmatched,
Speaker 2: because we do live in such a culture that really
Speaker 2: shames us for our sexuality, especially for your folks even
Speaker 2: more so. And so there is something about being able
Speaker 2: to be in a space with like minded folks that
Speaker 2: feels healing because it's like, oh, this isn't bad, this
Speaker 2: isn't wrong. In fact, I'm literally in a space with however,
Speaker 2: many other people who also are seeking this thing, and
Speaker 2: so I find that to be fun also to your
Speaker 2: So for me, Matthew and I don't go to sex
Speaker 2: parties together because we, uh, there's he doesn't like to
Speaker 2: see me with other people Like That's how our jealousy works. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I get that, so we go to them separately, which
Speaker 2: you know, I think also for me injects a little
Speaker 2: something into the sex life because abs are not my
Speaker 2: favorite for a lot of reasons. But being able to
Speaker 2: be in person with people and being able to just
Speaker 2: connect without even the needing for us to actually have sex.
Speaker 2: They're in a space where we can but like, actually
Speaker 2: we're here just connecting first.
Speaker 1: I've been to so many sex parties and not had sex. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think people are potentially surprised by that. I
Speaker 1: end up in whatever cool because some of them I
Speaker 1: go to. I go to more bisexual sex parties. I
Speaker 1: go to gay sex parties too, but those so they
Speaker 1: might have I feel like the gay sex parties tend
Speaker 1: to be more like you go, you fuck that, that
Speaker 1: is the one thing to do, versus like straight sex
Speaker 1: parties swinger sex parties by sexual ones. There might also
Speaker 1: be dancing. There might also be oh, a hot tub
Speaker 1: and you go and chill in that, or an outside
Speaker 1: bar that you drink. There's kind of more to do,
Speaker 1: but I'll be like okay by the fire pit. And
Speaker 1: also it's being me and again like I am not
Speaker 1: famous by any stretch of the imagination except for bisexual
Speaker 1: sex partygoers in Brooklyn. That is my absolute audience, Like
Speaker 1: that is my market. So when I go to these places,
Speaker 1: I am recognized and people want to talk to me
Speaker 1: about my book and do that and meet me and
Speaker 1: do all this shit, which is fun and cool, and
Speaker 1: I get to talk to new people who've engaged with
Speaker 1: my work in a way and sometimes just end up
Speaker 1: talking to people all night. I'm like, ash shit, and
Speaker 1: by the end you're like, well, that's what I've done here.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of over it.
Speaker 2: But like, I have a question, and this is a
Speaker 2: little pivot. We'll come back to sex parties. But I'm
Speaker 2: asking this because I feel like, for one, I've had
Speaker 2: a number of specifically women who have come out to
Speaker 2: me in their thirties and forties as bisexual, but they're
Speaker 2: in hew to representing relationships. And so now since I
Speaker 2: have you in your you have a partner, a female partner,
Speaker 2: which is the head of representing. Is that am I
Speaker 2: using that terminology? Okay, I'm presenting how do you? I
Speaker 2: think a common question is how do you hold on
Speaker 2: to your queerness or take up space in queer spaces
Speaker 2: when you feel is because what I what I get
Speaker 2: from from those people talking to me is that they
Speaker 2: feel like they can't take up queer space because they're
Speaker 2: not presenting as queer.
Speaker 1: Well, this is an ongoing challenge, This is not something
Speaker 1: you're alone with. I really not to plug my own shit.
Speaker 1: I wrote an op ad for The New York Times
Speaker 1: a few years ago, specifically focusing on women in you know,
Speaker 1: straight passing relationships, bisexual women with men who do not
Speaker 1: feel queer enough, and how to navigate those feelings. And
Speaker 1: one thing I kind of spoke about is being often
Speaker 1: I think there's a confusion where being queer, like validly queer,
Speaker 1: equates to being more marginalized and persecuted, which is so
Speaker 1: fucking sad to me. It's like, you're not queer if
Speaker 1: you've been a victim of a hate crime, and obviously
Speaker 1: you do have privilege by being a straight passing relationship.
Speaker 1: When I hold hands with a boyfriend walking down the street,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of getting the shit kicked out of me.
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of that when I'm holding hands with
Speaker 1: a woman. You know what I mean. Like, there are
Speaker 1: some simple things.
Speaker 2: But like your queerness isn't rooted. The definition of your
Speaker 2: queerness isn't rooted in your oppression or your trauma.
Speaker 1: It is not. And so you are equally as queer
Speaker 1: as they are, you know what I mean? You absolutely are. Again,
Speaker 1: you should use your privilege and your voice to help
Speaker 1: the more marginalized within the queer community. And I'm always like,
Speaker 1: I want you to use your fucking husband's investment, banking money,
Speaker 1: his story, fucking bazement Bucky to fucking support other marginalized queers.
Speaker 1: But you're equally as queer. But like, I think the
Speaker 1: answer is creating more queer spaces, finding these queer spaces,
Speaker 1: finding these bisexual spaces where you're not alone, You're not
Speaker 1: the only you know, there are a shit ton of
Speaker 1: by people there in these hetero passing relationshi, so you
Speaker 1: don't feel awkward, you don't feel uncomfortable, and they are
Speaker 1: popping up more and more, which is really cool to see.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a sadness that I have that I
Speaker 1: want to go to a gay club and I would
Speaker 1: love to go with my girlfriend, and I don't. That's
Speaker 1: the truth. That will be a night where I'll go
Speaker 1: out with my gay friends or my by male friends
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, because she like, when she's in
Speaker 1: that space, the guys fucking look at her up and down,
Speaker 1: like they can be so cunty and so mean, especially
Speaker 1: if they see her with a hot guy and they're
Speaker 1: jealous and they're upset by that shit, and it's like,
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to deal with that shit. I don't
Speaker 1: want her to have to deal with that shit. That's
Speaker 1: not fun for either of us. So I think finding
Speaker 1: your people, finding your spaces, finding your parties, finding your community.
Speaker 2: Finding your people. Yeah, the welcoming of sometimes sometimes gays
Speaker 2: can be so cold. The oppressed community is we just
Speaker 2: continue to do it, but people hurt people there. It
Speaker 2: is there. But in talking about that, I do think,
Speaker 2: you know, especially for those people who might be coming
Speaker 2: out or realizing there bisexually later or feeling some you know,
Speaker 2: is imposter syndrome around being in a head or presenting,
Speaker 2: I would imagine that a queer sex party or a
Speaker 2: bisexual specific queer sex party or just party would be
Speaker 2: a great way to exactly start to mitigate that and
Speaker 2: start to break away the whatever shame or whatever whatever
Speaker 2: burden you're carrying around a taking up space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still I'm gonna buy authors group with
Speaker 1: with some of my by friends and it's actually all
Speaker 1: women and then me, but but again, all my friends
Speaker 1: are by women. That's literally the only people I know.
Speaker 1: I look, I got taste. That's what it is. That's
Speaker 1: what it is. I got taste. But still, and these
Speaker 1: are people who are prominent authors in the queer community
Speaker 1: who still have impost syndrome. And what helps is when
Speaker 1: we talk about it. We just text each other being like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling this, I'm feeling the struggle and like, hey,
Speaker 1: I've been there too, So I think maybe there's some
Speaker 1: solidarity or some comfort and knowing that you're not alone
Speaker 1: in this and this is something that's going to be
Speaker 1: on and on. But like following those bisexual meme accounts
Speaker 1: or the accounts that really are supportive of you, and like,
Speaker 1: so again, when you go through this alone and you
Speaker 1: feel alone and you're like you're the only one that's
Speaker 1: going through this. You don't know anyone you can talk
Speaker 1: to or anyone you like you can be with, fuck
Speaker 1: like like, yeah, you're You're gonna spiral. So it really
Speaker 1: is finding your people in community, Following the correct social
Speaker 1: media accounts that affirm you.
Speaker 2: Do you remember a time at a sex party where
Speaker 2: you felt truly validated in your bisexuality.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yes, I can do promo for my book.
Speaker 1: Oh you can't see it, boy slide, which the paperback
Speaker 1: is now out. It is hot pay we love a
Speaker 1: paperback moment, right, she's cute. Uh. So I through and
Speaker 1: it's actually the last chapter of my book because I
Speaker 1: the beginning I talked about my lack of communion. By
Speaker 1: the end it's how I'm fostering community. Yes, uh, and
Speaker 1: so the last chapters about a party I threw called
Speaker 1: by Slot, which I remember boy Slot brand boy Slot.
Speaker 1: But you see what I did there?
Speaker 2: She did it.
Speaker 1: She did it, and it was there was a moment
Speaker 1: where because the thing is one thing I struggled with
Speaker 1: with sex parties was obviously gay sex parties are all
Speaker 1: men that the lesbians have their sex parties, and the
Speaker 1: queer sex parties I would often see would be like
Speaker 1: men hooking up with women and women hooking up with women,
Speaker 1: but not actually men hooking up with men. And I
Speaker 1: think there was still a little bit of a I
Speaker 1: think men you know, a lot of by men have
Speaker 1: been rejected by women, like like and we still have.
Speaker 2: This fear culturally around and just being the first to
Speaker 2: do it, or just they weren't going to these places.
Speaker 1: And I remember, I'm like in the basement of the
Speaker 1: sex party and I'm doing like a three sixty turn
Speaker 1: and I'm just seeing like the gayest, queerest, most bisexual
Speaker 1: like men having sex with men while their girlfriend fists
Speaker 1: them like like you know, like the double like a
Speaker 1: guy and a girl giving a guy a blowjob, while
Speaker 1: so many things in so many people's asses, And it
Speaker 1: was actually the most bisexual sex like I had seen
Speaker 1: in a public space where it actually really was that,
Speaker 1: And I started crying.
Speaker 2: I was so happy.
Speaker 1: And this party was actually open to the public. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like usually a lot of these sex clubs are
Speaker 1: like members only, and they do that for safety and
Speaker 1: to vet people whatever it is, and this was not.
Speaker 1: And I had multiple men come up to me, specifically
Speaker 1: by men who felt like they didn't have a space.
Speaker 1: So it's a little bit different, but being like this
Speaker 1: has been the most affirming party I've been to my life.
Speaker 1: I've never been able to express myself and be myself
Speaker 1: and be open with my wife, but desire men like
Speaker 1: gay spaces I didn't feel included straight spaces. I was weird,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it was. And one thing I will say, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was very affirming to me obviously, Like there is
Speaker 1: something about when I have threeesomes with a man and
Speaker 1: a woman, I feel very bisexual. Well you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's like or someone non binary, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. But like you know, when I'm having sex
Speaker 1: with like a two hundred and fifty pound like muscle
Speaker 1: bottom who's hairy, I'm not like, oh, this is bisexual.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is some gay as shit, I'm doing it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It doesn't like you do.
Speaker 1: I do feel affirmed in these threesomes. One thing that
Speaker 1: I'm working on as I'm trying to build community as well,
Speaker 1: is how to have these bisexual spaces that are actually
Speaker 1: not focused on sex parties, because I feel like most
Speaker 1: of the buy spaces I know are sex spaces, which
Speaker 1: are great for me personally. I fucking love that, but
Speaker 1: obviously they're people in monogamous relationships. They don't want to
Speaker 1: go to sex prize whatever the fuck it is. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, why can't we do bisexual rock climbing? Bisexuals
Speaker 1: fucking love rock climbing. They're obsessed with that shit. They
Speaker 1: love that. I fucking hate it. I fucking hate it.
Speaker 1: I'd like people I might be rock called me like, no,
Speaker 1: my wrists are gonna hurt. I'm gonna hate this.
Speaker 2: My forum suck.
Speaker 1: I'm not strong enough. No, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: putting a weird fucking thing where I get a wedgie
Speaker 1: with the fucking Like, No, they love that shit, we
Speaker 1: love that ship whatever the fuck the community. The community
Speaker 1: loves it, and like, how do we like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: bisexual open relationship rock climbing job. I feel like that
Speaker 1: would be I.
Speaker 2: Mean, wow, is that?
Speaker 1: I feel like that already is like a thing, they
Speaker 1: just don't call it that. Yeah, but like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would love to see more buy spaces like or buy clubs,
Speaker 1: even if it's drinking and dancing whatever it is like
Speaker 1: that has that more.
Speaker 2: Space for emotional connection.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just sex and for people. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: that doesn't.
Speaker 2: Mean like emotional connection is like I'm hoping to fall
Speaker 2: in love with this person, but just like like a
Speaker 2: connect connecting to people, connecting to people that are that
Speaker 2: have a similar experience to you, which I think is
Speaker 2: so you know what you're talking about in this Even
Speaker 2: at the sex party, just being able to see a
Speaker 2: representation of yourself and how you love and how you
Speaker 2: make love or how you fuck in front of you
Speaker 2: can be so healing because I think there is so
Speaker 2: much regardless even if you're like a straight white man.
Speaker 2: I think that all of us holds some set of
Speaker 2: shame and pain around sex, of course, and and and
Speaker 2: questions if if we're doing it right and what we're
Speaker 2: and if what we like is correct, Which is why
Speaker 2: I love the coven of doms who are like.
Speaker 1: I love them, we love them.
Speaker 2: I love them who are owning what what they love
Speaker 2: and who are leaning into what brings them pleasure. And
Speaker 2: I think more, I think that that should be the
Speaker 2: goal for all of us. That is my hope for
Speaker 2: this person who is having their first sex party. What
Speaker 2: would you say, regardless whether it's a bisex party, queer, straight, Like,
Speaker 2: what are the top three? Or I don't want to
Speaker 2: give you a whole number, but what are your top tips?
Speaker 1: So I also have written like an article for Men's
Speaker 1: Health which is literally like very in depth, a shit
Speaker 1: ton of tips for your first time going to a
Speaker 1: sex party. We're going to put that in the note.
Speaker 1: We'll put that on the notes, so that's there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a few things to note, but some more
Speaker 1: generic ones are like I think it's fun to go
Speaker 1: with a friend or a partner for your first time
Speaker 1: because it can be somewhat scary. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be someone you're having sex with. But like I think
Speaker 1: people there's a lot of downtime at sex parties, Like
Speaker 1: you still have to flirt. Sex is not guaranteed. You
Speaker 1: don't just go and be like do you want to fuck?
Speaker 1: Everyone's like yes, Like yeah, put a little work into it,
Speaker 1: so you're still like you will be alone at a
Speaker 1: sex party, and it's like unless if you're someone who's
Speaker 1: naturally very gregarious and sociable and can go up to people,
Speaker 1: it's easier to just have a friend or partner or
Speaker 1: buddy in some capacity. I think it's very important to
Speaker 1: kind of like most sex parties they actually have like
Speaker 1: a very extensive like do's and don't, Like what is
Speaker 1: the vibe of the sex party? So like like read
Speaker 1: that so you get a sense of like what's going on. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I would say get dressed up, look sexy, look like
Speaker 1: put some effort into it. You're going out, this is
Speaker 1: an exciting thing, and you're more likely to meet people
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah. One thing that's always important to know
Speaker 1: is like learn like you should not be going to
Speaker 1: a sex party if you do not feel comfortable saying now,
Speaker 1: and so you need to be able to say And
Speaker 1: it's always just been like hey, thank you, but I'm
Speaker 1: not looking right now, or I'll come find you later,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. There are some kind of like universal
Speaker 1: phrases be like oh no, right now, I'm just chilling
Speaker 1: with my friends, but if I change my mind, I'll
Speaker 1: come find you. And if you get rejected, the only
Speaker 1: response is to say awesome, thank you so much. And
Speaker 1: that's it. Like do not be pushy, do not be aggressive,
Speaker 1: do not do anything like that, obviously, but it's not
Speaker 1: obvious people still do that, or people take it personally
Speaker 1: or they kind of get like, oh sorry, I was
Speaker 1: just trying to like connect and then like make you
Speaker 1: feel guilty for saying, like, don't be that fucking person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So going with friends, I would obviously steer clear from
Speaker 1: drinking or doing like drugs for your first time. That's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's when you're nervous. At least
Speaker 1: for me, I still have the desire to be like,
Speaker 1: let me have fifteen shots, right, It's like, don't do that.
Speaker 1: You want to be able to consent. You want to
Speaker 1: make sure you're able to read other people's body language.
Speaker 1: That's very important. I think. It's also one thing which
Speaker 1: is a little difference between straight and gay sex parties,
Speaker 1: which I emphasize is knowing what the norms of consent
Speaker 1: are in the space. So in like straight, bisexual, mixed
Speaker 1: gender spaces, typically the type of consent is enthusiastic consent,
Speaker 1: which means you know, anything that's not a fuck yes
Speaker 1: as a fuck no, and you verbally asked, being like hey,
Speaker 1: I'd love to kiss you, and you wait for their response, right,
Speaker 1: and you need that verbal enthusiastic yes versus at a
Speaker 1: lot of gay sex parties it's more opt out consent,
Speaker 1: which is more no means no, So someone is likely
Speaker 1: to touch you, you know what I mean, without honestily
Speaker 1: asking to touch you, and if you brush their hand
Speaker 1: away or you say no, then they'll stop. But if
Speaker 1: you don't feel comfortable with someone touching you. And I
Speaker 1: remember the first time I went to a gay sex
Speaker 1: party was actually the first time I think I went
Speaker 1: to fulsome East. I was living in Boston. I came
Speaker 1: up for it, so this is maybe like nine years like,
Speaker 1: of god, we're not going to any younger nine ten
Speaker 1: years ago. I went there and all these guys were
Speaker 1: grabbing me and touching me, and I told my boyfriend
Speaker 1: for five minutes, I'm like, I need to get the
Speaker 1: fuck out of here. I need to get the fuck
Speaker 1: out of here right now. I'm overwhelmed. I do not
Speaker 1: like this. Now I know that the norm is that,
Speaker 1: and the reason why the norm is that is kind
Speaker 1: of twofold. It's hot. It's sexy to just be able
Speaker 1: to touch people and grabs people's asses feel comfortable. If
Speaker 1: you're a guy in a sling blindfolded, you don't want
Speaker 1: someone to come up to you being like, hey, honey,
Speaker 1: would it be okay if I stick my dick in
Speaker 1: your ass?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: No, the whole point do you want to be taken?
Speaker 1: You want the anonminimity? You want this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So now I have to be in the right headspace
Speaker 1: to go to a gay sex party. If I'm not
Speaker 1: in the mood to be fucking touched, then then then
Speaker 1: where I'm going so yeah, So again if in case
Speaker 1: this was a gay man that asked, I don't know
Speaker 1: the gender of the person, like, okay, this is something
Speaker 1: to be mindful of. So knowing what the norms of
Speaker 1: consent are in that space, following that, when I say
Speaker 1: bring a buddy, bring you know, your condoms in lube
Speaker 1: and poppers or whatever it is that you need else
Speaker 1: look sexy, you feel sexy. I feel like there's some
Speaker 1: tips there, and again the rest.
Speaker 2: Will be in the article. That'll be the article. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I also think what would I add to I really,
Speaker 2: I really thank you for differentiating the types of consent,
Speaker 2: because that is I remember the first time I went
Speaker 2: to a steam room, and luckily I was with a
Speaker 2: friend of mine who gave me the rundown. But one
Speaker 2: of the things was people will touch you, and if
Speaker 2: you don't want that, just brush it away like that
Speaker 2: was that's how this space operates, which you don't if
Speaker 2: you've never been and no one says that to you,
Speaker 2: then people are touching you. I can imagine that that
Speaker 2: would be It would have been jarring. Had I not
Speaker 2: had that piece of information, that very crucial piece of information,
Speaker 2: I probably would have been jarred by the way that
Speaker 2: people were touching me. But yeah, so that is a
Speaker 2: very valuable piece of information. I also think, well, it
Speaker 2: is half I don't want to say half fun, but
Speaker 2: expectations and not putting pressure on yourself to have to
Speaker 2: have sex, which is I just want to reiterate that, like,
Speaker 2: go to experience, allow it to be an experience without
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh I need to actually perform.
Speaker 1: I actually think you should maybe go in with your
Speaker 1: first time thinking you're not going to have sex. I
Speaker 1: like having that, and if you do have sex, it's
Speaker 1: a pleasant surprise. But if you go in with the
Speaker 1: mindset of like I just want to scope out and
Speaker 1: see what the fuck the scene is, you're not going
Speaker 1: to be disappointed. And I've had that even I have
Speaker 1: to sometimes go into a sex party being like, is
Speaker 1: this a night where I want to have sex and
Speaker 1: if so, I need to make that happen, or is
Speaker 1: this a night I just want to reconnect with friends
Speaker 1: I haven't seen in schmooze because sometimes I go not
Speaker 1: really have a sense and then end up smoozing and
Speaker 1: not having sex and then feeling disappointed. I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 1: I still had a good time. But like because I
Speaker 1: didn't like verbalize in my head like what is it
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do? So I think maybe having some
Speaker 1: people will ask you at sex parties like what is
Speaker 1: your intention tonight? Ye? And I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: a great like, hey, is my goal like I want
Speaker 1: to have a crazy kinky scene or is the goal
Speaker 1: like I just want to watch people have sex or
Speaker 1: meet new people or just be held whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So I think actually potentially having somewhat of an intention
Speaker 1: might help guide your behaviors and actions.
Speaker 2: I love that because you know I love an intention,
Speaker 2: so that I love that go to your sex party
Speaker 2: with an intention, like what define for yourself what your
Speaker 2: intention is before you show up to this space? And
Speaker 2: then I'll also add I did an interview with someone
Speaker 2: and she was explaining that she went to a sex
Speaker 2: party and I love this phrase. She said it was
Speaker 2: my space but not my people. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's okay too, Like you might go somewhere and you'd
Speaker 2: be like, oh, like I like this vibe, but for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, the way that the dynamics are set up,
Speaker 2: or it might not be for me, and that's okay too,
Speaker 2: I think, which I wish I had that at certain
Speaker 2: like there were certain things that I've been to. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh I love a sex party, I love this whatever,
Speaker 2: but this this group may not be my group to
Speaker 2: do this with.
Speaker 1: There are especially like some of the sex parties that
Speaker 1: are like four hundred dollars a person, and it's very
Speaker 1: much just like these older men with these gorgeous younger women,
Speaker 1: and like that's fine, and that's their space. That's that
Speaker 1: I go and I'm like, okay, like not necessarily my scene.
Speaker 1: It's just not for you. Go find another party, you
Speaker 1: find your people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. I love that. I'm so happy
Speaker 2: you were here. This is such a lovely conversation.
Speaker 1: This was I do ten billion of these as I'm
Speaker 1: sure you do as fucking well, and this was just like, hey,
Speaker 1: I got to talk about different ship. Yeah, this was
Speaker 1: far more fun than any of the rest of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I.
Speaker 1: Think educational too. So I just want to thank you
Speaker 1: that this was because I fucking you get tired of
Speaker 1: this talking about the same ship, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate this.
Speaker 2: Thank you Brandon, of course, thank you for being here
Speaker 2: and for all of your knowledge, And I'm just so
Speaker 2: grateful for your friendship and for your for your expertise, Well,
Speaker 2: we don't like expertise, we like what did you say?
Speaker 2: You don't like expert I just.
Speaker 3: Want for your for your writing, for your writing, your writing,
Speaker 3: your contributions speaking.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I love you, baby, I love you to
Speaker 2: what a conversation. I love zech so much. Listen, you
Speaker 2: already know that we are hose here, but hose with heart.
Speaker 2: So before we get out of here, let me speak
Speaker 2: to yours and specifically, I'm gonna talk to my bisexual community,
Speaker 2: especially for those of y'all who are in hetero presenting
Speaker 2: relationships or straight passing relationships, or those of you who
Speaker 2: are coming out later in your journey. I just want
Speaker 2: you to know that you can take up space, and
Speaker 2: I'm m you know, I don't know. If somebody has
Speaker 2: a problem with it, send them my way and I'll
Speaker 2: fight on your behalf. Because you are queer. You're queer,
Speaker 2: Your queerness matters, your experience matters. We are not a monolith.
Speaker 2: There's not one version of being queer that's not one
Speaker 2: queer experience. In fact, what makes I think the queer
Speaker 2: community such a beautiful and vibrant space is the fact
Speaker 2: that our tapestry is so so I'm gonna use the
Speaker 2: word diverse, controversial word, but it's so layered and nuanced
Speaker 2: and has so many intricacies, and it's so colorful. And
Speaker 2: so don't shrink yourself or hide yourself because you're afraid
Speaker 2: of how other people are going to perceive you. Live
Speaker 2: your life for you, not for the masses. Use your privilege,
Speaker 2: of course, know what spaces you're in, of course, but
Speaker 2: don't hide who you are. Who you are matters. And
Speaker 2: there are people who are willing and ready and who
Speaker 2: desire to welcome you, who desire to include you, and
Speaker 2: those who don't. Don't data your people. Remember five might
Speaker 2: be your space, not your people, you know, So don't
Speaker 2: stress about the people who are hating. I'll let you
Speaker 2: want to seecret. The people who are hating have their
Speaker 2: own insecurities that they're navigating, have their own triggers that
Speaker 2: they're navigating, have their own things that they're working through, hopefully,
Speaker 2: and they might project that onto you, and you might
Speaker 2: bring something up for them that has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with you. And that is a lesson for anybody that
Speaker 2: doesn't matter about your queerness. Whatever that is a lesson
Speaker 2: for everybody. When somebody is reacting versus responding, I say react,
Speaker 2: run to the attack. So if you ever feel like
Speaker 2: you're on the receiving end of a reaction, remember that
Speaker 2: it's probably not about you. It has everything to do
Speaker 2: with that person. So be yourself, love yourself, be kind
Speaker 2: to yourself, be gentle with yourself. Find your people, find
Speaker 2: your space, find your coven of doms. Okay, honey, and
Speaker 2: I just love you. I just want you to know
Speaker 2: that you're left. I love you so much. All Right,
Speaker 2: I gotta get out of here, but y'all make sure
Speaker 2: you check out Zach's articles, which will be in our
Speaker 2: show notes if you're interested. Find Zach's book at your
Speaker 2: local bookstore. Support those local bookstores. I can't recommend Voicelet,
Speaker 2: which is one word for one word. I can't recommend
Speaker 2: it enough. You can also find Zach on Instagram at
Speaker 2: Zachary Zane Underscore or on their their substack which is
Speaker 2: the Voicelet zine. And if you go to our Messy
Speaker 2: Monday's substack, Zach is recommended there, so there's a link
Speaker 2: on the side. You can find me on Instagram as
Speaker 2: well at branded Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast
Speaker 2: at tell Me Something Messy and you can join our
Speaker 2: community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll
Speaker 2: get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so
Speaker 2: much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so
Speaker 2: send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your
Speaker 2: game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: You can also call us at six six nine sixty
Speaker 2: nine Messy. That is six six nine six nine six
Speaker 2: three seven seven nine for you host who can't spill.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say that every week, rate review and share
Speaker 2: this podcast with all your HOE and aspiring HOE friends.
Speaker 2: Really really helps the show out, all right, Until next time,
Speaker 2: ask about the politics of that dick before you make
Speaker 2: it spit, make sure they eat the kitty before they
Speaker 2: beat the kitty, before fucation or suctation communication. And in
Speaker 2: case you haven't heard it yet, today you are so
Speaker 2: deeply loved. I love you bye. Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If you all
Speaker 2: enjoyed the show, send the episode to someone else who
Speaker 2: might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced
Speaker 2: by Ali Perry Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly. Our producer
Speaker 2: and editor is Vince de Johnny. For more podcasts from
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio and the Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 2: anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.