1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Well, the plot is thickening. 2 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: True words were never spoken, of course. I'm talking about 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Barry Morphew and his missing wife, Suzanne Morphew. We've seen 4 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: a lot of video of him going in and out 5 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: of the courtroom, and he's always flanked by his two 6 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: adult daughters. In the last hours, a treasure trove of 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: evidence has been released by the state. What is it 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: hundreds of documents, They are photos And what I found 9 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: really interesting are the photos that have been amassed from 10 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: that holiday in Express where he stayed the very same 11 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: day that his wife goes missing on Mother's Day. It 12 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: shows him changing clothes for no reason. He had a 13 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: lot of wardrobe changes that day. It shows him in 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: and out of his favorite cowboy boots. Why why did 15 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: he have to change clothes so often? Now, according to him, 16 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: he was going to a work site on Mother's Day 17 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: out of town. But yet, if the video is to 18 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: be believed, he hold up in his room at the 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: Holiday and Express for at least five hours, going in 20 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: and out changing clothes. Very very unusual, but odd circumstances 21 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: do not a murder case make? What else do we learn? 22 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: I mean it see Grace. This is Crime Stories, thank 23 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation. In 24 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: series one eleven, very revealing are dozens and dozens and 25 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: dozens of text messages his missing wife is in Morphew 26 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: sent to various people, specifically her friends, describing her relationship. 27 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: How she says she is quote done, that she has 28 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: gone round and round with Morphew about getting out, how 29 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: he manipulates everything, getting the daughters on his side, how 30 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: he threatens to jump out of the car and kill 31 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: himself whenever they're talking about breaking up. She even reveals 32 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and I quote he doesn't mention how he has hurt 33 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: me physically. We now know that there is domestic abuse 34 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: in the home. We see photos of inside the home 35 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: taken by investigators, including the bedroom door to the master 36 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: bedroom cracked, the signing of it cracked. Did he kick 37 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: the door in trying to get her? We see how 38 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: his cell phone his data was pinging him all around 39 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: the house, leading to the investigator's belief that he chased 40 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: her through the home, ultimately shooting her with a dark 41 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: gun to sedate her. I found very very striking that 42 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: on the day she goes out on her bike all 43 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: alone on Mother's Day, her two daughters are away, her 44 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: husband trumps up and out of town work trip that 45 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: didn't exist. She's all alone. I looked at many photos 46 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: of her on previous bike trips. She's a big biker. 47 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: She always has on her helmet and a pair of 48 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: sunglasses and her camelback, you know, with water and whatever 49 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: she would put in there. But on that day, that 50 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: day of all days, when she goes missing in her 51 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: car in plain view, her pocketbook with all of her 52 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: ID credit cards and money, her sunglasses that she goes 53 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: writing in, and her camelback, why is that? I mean, 54 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you thoughts as they're coming to me. 55 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, if I were to take this to trial, 56 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: this would all be or written out page after page 57 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: after page of state's exhibit. When I'm going to enter 58 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: it in with which witness, how I'm going to lay 59 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: the foundation for it. But guess what, we're not in court, 60 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: so we can talk about it freely with no objections, 61 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: and what an all star panel. I've got to break 62 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: it down and put it back together, making sense of 63 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: this treasure trove of evidence we have just received. But 64 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: before we get started with this panel, I want you 65 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: to take a Listen to Bury Morphew as he begs 66 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: for help finding his wife. Oh, Susan, if anyone is 67 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: out there, I could hear this that has you. Please. 68 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: We'll do whatever it takes to bring you back. We 69 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: love you, we miss you, your girls and needs muss, 70 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: no questions asked, however much they want, I will do 71 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: whatever it takes to get you back. I love you, 72 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: however much it takes, whatever they want. Isn't that odd? 73 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: And no one has ever sent a ransom note ever? 74 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: With me and all star panel to make sense of 75 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: what we know. First of all, high profile lawyer, former prosecutor, 76 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: author of the Executioner's Toll, Matthew Mangino joining us out 77 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: of Lawrence County. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, renowned psychologists specializing in 78 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: criminal behavior. As a matter of fact, that's one of 79 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: her books, Criminal Behavior, Also for law and Psychology intersected. Boy, 80 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: do we need a shrink today? Doctor Sherry, founder and 81 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: director of the Coldcase Research Institute. I met Cheryl McCollum 82 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,119 Speaker 1: and the trenches finding crime with me, she claims about 83 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: three am. I don't know about that, but you can 84 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: find her at Coldcase Crimes Dot org. But first two 85 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: special guests joining us. Carol McKinney, Enterprise reporter with the 86 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: Denver Gazette at Denver Gazette dot com. Carol McKinley. Today 87 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: there is a hearing regarding change of venue of this case. 88 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: But I want to get to the facts. I'm telling 89 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: you these photos and these texts are bob shells. What 90 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: texts from Susanne Morphew jump out at you the most? 91 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 1: Well there are Remember, Susanne Morphew's phone was never found. 92 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: That's one of the things. We don't know what happened 93 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: to it. But they were able to get texts from 94 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: other people's phones. And that's what we see is the 95 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: texts that they found on the phones of her best friend, 96 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: Sheila Oliver, who she texted between March and April about 97 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: twenty times, some really really important messages before she went missing. 98 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: And then the text that were on Berry's phone. And 99 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: then there's an important text that was downloaded from her 100 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: eye cloud. Right. So the pivotal text, according to the prosecution, 101 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: is one she wrote on Mate six, at ten o'clock 102 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: in the morning, she was at a neighbor's house. And 103 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: this is the neighbor that eventually reported her missing. So 104 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: she's at the house having coffee and cookies, you know, 105 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: and she texts him that it's over. She says, we 106 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: have to resolve this civilly. He doesn't answer her to 107 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: the prosecution. That's the most important text because that when 108 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: he decides to kill her. According to the District Attorney's office, right, 109 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: this is the one that sets them on because she 110 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: swipes it. They're able to retrieve it from his phone, 111 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: but he swiped it. It's not visible on the phone 112 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: when they got his phone. Well, he texts back to 113 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: her at about three in the afternoon that he's sorry, 114 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of a suicide sounding tom oh cool. Wait 115 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: wait him and the suicide, well, it sounds like it, 116 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: you know. To doctor Sherry Schwartz joining me forensic psychologist 117 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: at panther Mitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry, you know, I 118 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: got so much to talk to you about, but can 119 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: we talk about the fact and I went through so 120 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: much of this evidence and I'm going to circle back 121 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: to you, Mangino, because that's how a lot of lawyers 122 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: lose their case, because they don't take the time to 123 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: sit down, as painful as it is, and go through 124 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: page after page after document after document, because you never 125 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: know what you're going to find. I'm going to circle 126 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: back to you on that. But to you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, 127 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: I was reading one text where she writes about how 128 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: she's bringing up the fact that she wants to split up, 129 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: and he, as they're driving, opens up his I guess 130 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: his truck door and acts like he's gonna jump out 131 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: of it. Did he jump? No? Did he ever try 132 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: to commit suicide? No? According to prosecutors, the only person 133 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: he killed is her. No. What is That's master manipulation 134 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: And speaking of the word manipulation all through her text, 135 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: she talks about how he is manipulating their adult daughters, 136 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: and we see him doing it right now. They have 137 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: fall over his story hook line and sinker. But let 138 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: me first ask you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, about people that 139 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,479 Speaker 1: threaten suicide when they're no more going to commit suicide 140 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: than the man in the moon, as an attempt to 141 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: manipulate their partner into doing what they want them to do. 142 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: That's exactly what that is, Nancy. It's master manipulation, and 143 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: it plays on the person who you're threatening that you're 144 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: going to commit suicide. It plays on their empathy, their emotions. 145 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: There's a way to gain control over the other person 146 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: and have them yield your wants, your wishes, your demands. 147 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Matthew Mangino joining US former 148 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: district attorney in Lawrence County. Matthew, you can lose a 149 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: case if you do not study your documents. There's no 150 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: question about that, Nancy. And there's a lot of information here, 151 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: but it's all circumstantial. Please not with a circumstantial you know, Matthew, 152 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: where is it that you practice law in Western Pennsylvania? Okay? 153 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: Isn't it true in Western Pennsylvania? I assume that you 154 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: guys obey the US Supreme Court and in one of 155 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: their famous cases, which has been side it over and 156 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: over and over. In fact, isn't it true, Matthew Mangino 157 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: that before a jury goes out to deliberate their case, 158 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: after closing arguments, the judge then charges them on the 159 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: law by which they are to use, by which they 160 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: are to judge the case. And in those jury charges 161 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: which are read verbatim so as not to make any mistakes, 162 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: the judge says that circumstantial evidence is and can be 163 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: as powerful as direct evidence. Isn't that true, no question 164 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: about it? Man? So then yes, so when you say, 165 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: is just circumstantial evidence, right? But what we have to 166 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: think about here is what the evidence that we don't have. 167 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: We don't have a weapon, we don't have a body, 168 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: we don't have a cause of debt. What we have 169 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: is a lot of strange conduct, bizarre conduct, maybe by 170 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Barry More Aphew. We have some you know, scratch is 171 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: on his hands, that certainly or something that the defense 172 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: has to be concerned about. But we also have some 173 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: DNA evidence that indicates that a known sex offense or 174 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: someone who has three sex offend, that DNA was found 175 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: in that person's v vehicle. Where this is important. Where's 176 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: the DNA? I believe it's on the what is the vehicle? 177 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: It's on the glove flies Okay, the gloves, the glove 178 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: box in the hood, which is highly indicative of someone 179 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: who worked on the car getting documents or whatever may 180 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: be in the glove compartment and opening and shutting the hood. 181 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: Very significant. However, Cheryl McCollum, I disagree with Mangino. I 182 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: just would have disagreed before I read this treasure travel 183 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: of evidence. But I really disagree. Now, knowing what we 184 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: now know, I want you to hear Cheryl McCollum our 185 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: cut one three five from KUSA right now. Barrymorephew, the 186 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: man charged in the death of his wife Susanne, is 187 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: still out on bond, awaiting the start of his murder 188 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: trial in May. Meanwhile, the public is now able to 189 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: see the evidence used in the preliminary hearing, pictures of 190 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: Barrymorephew at a Broomfield hotel with bags the spy pen. 191 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Investigators say Susanne put in Barry's truck because she suspected 192 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: an affair, a suspicion that remains unfounded, and the tranquilizer 193 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: in darts prosecutors allege Barry shot Suzanne with before chasing 194 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: her around the house. You have fast does not show 195 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: up nearly as significantly. Nine News legal expert Scott Robinson 196 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: says actually seeing the evidence leaves an impact on potential 197 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: jurors if they've seen the photos, if they've read the texts. Texts, 198 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: including those from Susanne to a friend makes me wonder 199 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: what the young mee was thinking one text reads and 200 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: also Cheryl McCollum our one our cut one three six 201 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: from KUSA. I want you to hear about the zigzag 202 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: pattern that has been established by Barry Morphu's cell phone, 203 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: as if he's racing chasing someone around the house. It's 204 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: even timed. Listen the photographs of Barry Morphu's travels both 205 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: around the house in a kind of a zigzag manner 206 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: and his visits trash receptacles day after is pretty suspicious 207 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: all at all. It really brings home the fact that 208 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: this is a murder case concerning a woman who has 209 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: disappeared under very suspicious circumstances. And Robinson says that's just it, 210 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances at this point, making the evidence he believes 211 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: still balanced. After all, the prosecution has no murder weapon, 212 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: they have no motor method of murder, they have no body. 213 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: And as for jury selection, he says he has no 214 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: doubt the judge will see a jury, but it may 215 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: be tough. My profile cases always posed difficulty for a 216 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: judge and finding jurors. But I have to admit, over 217 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: the decades, I've been astonished how there are many people 218 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: out there that pay absolutely no attention to the news. Well, 219 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: thank god for those people. And another thing, why did 220 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: you believe what people on the news say. They're all 221 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: just regurgitating something else they've been told. Does anybody really 222 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: trust the news? Back to you, Cheryl McCullum, I want 223 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: you to take into account everything we're learning in this 224 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: new treasure show of evidence where you actually see the 225 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: door to the master bedroom cracked on one side the 226 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: previous owner stay, it wasn't like that when they sold 227 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: the house. And not only that, the cell phone the 228 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: electronic data includes him running through the bedroom and there's 229 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: ann shell tasting on her side of the bed. Why 230 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: is that there? Why is the door kicked in apparently, 231 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: and then backed up by the data showing him running 232 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: through the house after her. But what is striking you that, 233 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: my Cheryl McCollums. There are so many things that jump 234 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: out at me, Nancy, but I think for me, there's 235 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: two things that go kind of together. It's the data 236 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: that they've pulled from his truck along with the videotapes 237 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: that show him dumping trash at five different locations. So 238 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: if he had a bunch of trash in his truck, 239 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: then he didn't want to take to the dump and 240 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: have to pay the dispose of it. He would have 241 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: gone to one dumpster and thrown it all in there. 242 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: He wouldn't have gone out of his way and gone 243 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: to the hotel, a McDonald's, a men's warehouse, then to 244 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: another dumpster at the hotel. That makes no sense to 245 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: put that much for you. If you look at all 246 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: those photos, struck is still filthy and full of trash, 247 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: so e's not clear it struck out and you know 248 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: it brings to mind, Cheryl McCollum, it brings to mine, 249 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: and get a load of this Mangino. I don't know 250 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: if you remember Fotus Dulos, the husband of the missing 251 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos. He and his girlfriend 252 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: go all over town and they're caught on camera throwing 253 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: out handful after handful after handful of evidence, sticking it 254 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: down the drains, the sewers, drains, the runoff water drains, 255 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: on the hot on the streets, and the cops go 256 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: back and what do they find. Bloody clothes, rags, sponges, 257 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: the blood matching up to the missing mom, Jennifer Dulos. 258 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: And here we the same thing as Cheryl McCollum's pointing out, 259 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: Barry more for you, going from dump to dump to 260 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: receptacle to receptacle that night, throwing out trash go ahead, 261 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. Well, the other thing is the data from 262 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: the truck. He was not counting on that he had 263 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: enough wherewithal to put his cell phone on airplane mode. 264 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: He wasn't thinking about that computer. When was the last 265 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: time you put your cell phone on airplane mode? When 266 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: I was actually on an airplane because they made me, okay, 267 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: you know the last time I put my phone on 268 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: airplane mode? When you and I Cheryl McCollum, and you 269 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: Medea here in the studio with me, or in Aruba, 270 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: was Atlie Halloway's mother, retracing our steps to figure out what, 271 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: if anything we could learn. That was the last time 272 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: I had my phone on airplane mode? That's the one 273 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: were coming back from Aruba. Absolutely, but you know he 274 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: on airplane mode? What about that, Mangino, When do you 275 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: put don't lie, Mangino, when do you put your phone 276 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: on airplane mode? Tell me, as God as your witness, 277 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino, the last time you had your phone on 278 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: airplane mode on an airplane? Talent Mangino, And you know 279 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: everybody on that jury is gonna say the same thing, like, 280 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: for instance, at night, I don't want the phone to 281 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: wake up my husband or my children, but don't want 282 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: to keep it on so I can see if some 283 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: crazy thing happens, if somebody texts me, I put it 284 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: on silent. I'm put it on airplane mode. You know it, Mangino. 285 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: If I was a the face attorney in this case, 286 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: I would be looking at a play deal history. No, 287 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: his history with the sun. Maybe he puts his phone 288 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: on airplane mode all the time. We want to know that. 289 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: Oh you know what, I'm so glad you said that, Mangino. 290 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: I have the prosecution is listening pass out on care 291 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: on mccanley. They need to say how often he has 292 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: put his phone on airplane were you what were you 293 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: about to say? Carol? Do you know how good these 294 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: defense attorneys are who he's hired. These defense attorneys are 295 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: two of the top women in the state. It's not 296 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: the region. Did you hear what I just said, Carol? 297 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: To pass on to the prosecution to find out how 298 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: often and the pattern of if there is one of 299 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: Morphew putting his phone on airplane mode, because I bet 300 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: you he did not do it. If at all before 301 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: that day, that Mother's day Time stories with Nancy Grace, 302 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCall him, how many times have I been told, 303 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: right in my face? Oh, these defense attorneys are good. 304 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: Oh they're really good. Oh yeah, you're just gonna toss 305 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: the case and not try it. What about it, Sheryl? Try? Well, 306 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: not just that, Nacy know well them thinks. I don't 307 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: care how good they are. They can't undo. There's certain 308 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: veils you can't unwring, and one of them is when 309 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: he lies. He tells law enforcement that he went to 310 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: bed at eight o'clock, but yet the data from his 311 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: truck shows that he put that car in reverse at 312 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: nine thirty and moved at ninety six feet closer to 313 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: the house. Well, that's not a leap to think that's 314 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: what he unstably loading up her body. I'm sorry, who's 315 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: that talking in the background, Carol? Okay, go ahead, Carol. Yeah. 316 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: But but you don't know. But that's important though, Cheryl. 317 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: But you know that you don't know who put that 318 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: truck in reverse, because because all you have is that 319 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: that barrel of data, you don't know who did it. 320 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: And that's what the defense is going to argue you 321 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: stop playing corrects up that morning, Matthew Mangino, you're the 322 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: bad one trial wayer. I only wish I can only 323 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: pray I was sitting my seat and pray. The defense 324 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: trying to jump up and say what Carol McKinley just 325 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: said that some other person came to where the car 326 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: was parked, destrut was parked and moved it in the 327 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: middle of the night for no reason. No theft wasn't stolen, 328 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: no break in. That would be so wonderful. As the 329 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: defense tried to throw up that argument, McKenley just gave well, 330 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are arguments that the defense 331 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: can make. I mean, you've got to be very glad 332 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: on you one of them. Brother. You got to be 333 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: conscious about you know, what you're going to use and 334 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: necessarily what you're like going to use. But the other 335 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: thing I say at this point, Nancy is not so 336 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: fast when when we moved to condemned Barry Morphy or 337 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: to convict him, I mean, we know that the judge 338 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: after a four gates wominary hearing, wasn't real impressed with 339 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: the prosecution's case. And you know, as across the U 340 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: in all of your experience. You know that they had 341 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: an affidavit about one hundred and thirty pages in this case. 342 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: What that tells me is that they're really trying to 343 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: put something together that might not be there. Um. You know, 344 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: if I have a homicide case as a prosecutor, my 345 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: HALFI David, is going to be as brief as it 346 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: can possibly be. It's I've never seen one hundred and 347 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: thirty page affidavit. So well, there's some really interesting evidence here, 348 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, some really bizarre conduct, strange conduct. You know, 349 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: there's some key pieces missing here. This is my combody. 350 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: So you want me to give him a gold star 351 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: because he managed to get rid of the body? I mean, 352 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, Karen McKinley, Enterprise reporter joining us from the 353 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: Denver Gazette, could you tell me about the various dumpsters 354 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: and trash receptacles. Barry Morphy went to the very same evening, 355 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: Susanne Morphy guys missing, Yeah, I can. He went to 356 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: It's odd that he decided to go to Broomfield, Colorado. 357 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: That ball about three hours to the north near Denver. 358 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: Right there was you had to have a permit to 359 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: work on a Sunday in Broomfield. Apparently there was a 360 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: landscaping wall he had he had had a problem with. 361 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: He told the people he'd fixed it, but the job 362 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: wasn't until that Monday for some reason. He left early 363 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: in morning on Sunday, got up there about eight and 364 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: started dumping trash in different receptacles. There were five trash dumps, 365 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: that's what the FBI agent on the stand called it, 366 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: the five dumps. One of them in particular, was next 367 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 1: to him McDonald and what he did, and we saw it. 368 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: He got out of his car, there are still photos 369 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: of this from surveillance and pushed something way down into 370 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: the trash can, Like he didn't just throw it on 371 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: the top, He actually pushed it down. The prosecution thinks 372 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: that was the cell phone because it was small. But 373 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: then there were some other dumps. In one he had 374 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: some hiking boots. I think he had a planter that 375 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: had a tree in it, like a landscaping tree, like 376 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: a fir tree or something, so it was large. And 377 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: then there were three other stuffs, but they weren't sure 378 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: they were dumps because they weren't kind of right next 379 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: to a dumpster. But the other good surveillance video is 380 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: in the hotel which was a holiday in Express where 381 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: he went got in there in the eight o'clock hour 382 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: Sunday morning, and his scene walking up and down the 383 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: halls with different things in his hands. The first run 384 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: on that hotel surveillance video shows some clothing in his arms, 385 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: something that's kind of a blue color. I was at 386 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: the preliminary hearing, and during that hearing, the FBA agent 387 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: was questioned about a blue shirt. Well, she was wearing 388 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: a turquoise top to ride her bike a lot. She 389 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: wore that she wore this turfuoise top that matched her helmet. 390 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: The defense attorney stood up and said, you don't know 391 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: that's the shirt, and so they had to say items 392 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: of clothing. Those pictures are going to be important because 393 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: you wonder what was he bringing into that hotel room 394 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: and what did he take out, and why did he 395 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: leave so many times? Or why did he change clothes 396 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: as he was making those runs to the trash dumps 397 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: Another unusual circumstance. Carol McKinley is bringing up his many 398 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: many wardrobe changes. Hey, Nancy, can I jump in? Do 399 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: you remember when Scott Peterson put himself at the marina 400 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: because he said he went fishing. More few tells police 401 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: he took a left out of his driveway instead of 402 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: a right, which he would normally take to go to 403 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: this site to get to the highway. He went left 404 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: a mile down that road. To the left is where 405 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: her bike helmet was found. So again he puts himself 406 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: where a key piece of evidence is found. The bike 407 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: helmet is nowhere near the bike. The bike looks obviously 408 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: stays down that little ravine like it's just tossed over 409 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: and slid down and started resting on rocks. She ain't 410 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: found in the bottom. But again he's putting himself, in 411 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: my opinion, somewhere very key. That looks very damaging. Gosh, 412 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: I hardly even know which way to turn. There's just 413 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: so much and as Matthew me and Jane rightly points out, 414 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: so much circumstantial evidence. Let me ask you this, Carol 415 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: McKinley joining us from the Denver Gazette. Did he have 416 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: a permit to work in Broomfield on Sunday? We don't 417 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: know that, I bet has not been brought up, but 418 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: that's a great question. He did not work really on Sunday. 419 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: The job wasn't supposed to start till Monday, and his 420 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: workers didn't show up till that afternoon. You mean they 421 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: showed up on Sunday or Monday. On Sunday after he 422 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: asked them to come because he got the call from 423 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: the neighbors that she was missing. Wait a minute, wait, wait, 424 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: who got what call from the neighbors. Well, the daughters 425 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: were on a camping trip that weekend, so four Mothers Day, 426 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: they weren't home. They were on a camping trip, both 427 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: of them. Who got the call from the neighbors, that's 428 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: the question. The Ritters, Jean and Martin Ritter, are the 429 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: nearest neighbors to the Morphy's right. They live in a 430 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: really really remote area of Colorado near Salida, Colorado, which 431 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: is about two and a half hours. Okay, again, very 432 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: very simple. You said he got the call from the 433 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: neighbors that she was missing. Who are you talking and 434 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: called him? The Ritters called Barry Morphee. Correct, at about 435 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: five o'clock on Sunday. He was supposedly at the landscaping wall. 436 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: They called him and he told them to call nine 437 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: one one, So they called nine one one. It was 438 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: the daughters who asked the Ritters to check up on 439 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: the house because Susanne Morphy wasn't answering their happy Mother's 440 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: Day phone calls. I want to circle back to what 441 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: we are learning. You mentioned in one of his trips 442 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: to dump sites, you mentioned hiking boots. What can you 443 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: tell me about the hiking boots, Carol McKinley, Just that 444 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: he brought him into the hotel room. You can see 445 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: it on the hotel surveillance, and then you see him 446 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: walking out to a dumpster with hiking boots in his hand. 447 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: Why would he throw away his boots? Start to Sherry Schwartz. 448 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: You know how long I've had my cowboy boots, my 449 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: favorite pair. I guess, let's see, maybe twenty five years, 450 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: and I had to be talked out of wearing them 451 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: down the aisle. So why is he throwing away his boots, 452 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry? Of all things, well, that's not a good look, 453 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: especially if those boots weren't falling apart at the seams. Right. So, 454 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: if you're throwing away hiking boots in the wake of 455 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: your wife going missing, then that suggests that you have 456 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: some reason to need to get rid of those boots. Right. 457 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: There could be blood on them. I'm speculating there's no evidence. 458 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: There were blood on the there was blood on the boots. 459 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: Because they're gone crime stories with Nancy Grace, I want 460 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: you guys to listen to more of what we're learning, 461 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: and then I want to circle back to you Cheryl 462 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: McCallum on where the helmet, her helmet was found as 463 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: opposed to where the bike is, as opposed to where 464 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: their home is, and the coincidence Barry Morphew's car data 465 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: and pains showing him where the bike where the helmet 466 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 1: was discard arted about a mile away. But first take 467 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one three seven our friends 468 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: at KUSA. For the first time, we're able to see 469 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: some of the evidence that led to the arrest of 470 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: Barry Morphew. This is the man accused of killing his 471 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: wife in Chaffee County. Susanne Morphew has been missing since 472 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: Mother's Day of twenty twenty. A. George A judge excuse me, 473 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: has ordered the release of some of the evidence. This 474 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: includes photos of Barry's hands which appear to have scratch marks. 475 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: Prosecutors say this may be from Susanne trying to defend herself. 476 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: The defense said scratches came from tree branches while he 477 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: was looking for his wife. Prosecutors also believed Morphew may 478 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: have used a tranquilizer dart, and they found a needle 479 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: sheaf in the dryer at the Morphu's home. Investigators say 480 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: it fits a needle used to inject sirium into a dart. 481 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: Barry told investigators he's not sure how it got there. 482 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: There are also text messages between Susanne and Barry, as 483 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: well as Susanne and a different man she was having 484 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: an affair with, and also a portion of our cut 485 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: one three eight KUSA. New documents from the Very Morphew 486 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: case reveal at least ten friends and family members of 487 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: his missing wife filed protective orders against him. So why 488 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: is it ten friends and family members off Susanne Morpheus 489 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: have file protective orders against him? And isn't it true 490 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: to use Cheryl McCullum that in her text messages to 491 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: her friends Sheilla she stated that her own daughter said that, Mom, 492 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: you need to file a protection order against dad. You 493 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: know she had some concerned obviously, she even mentioned to 494 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: her sister that he was emotionally and physically abusive, So 495 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: we know there were you know, incidents. Is a violence 496 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: in the home prior to her going missing, and then 497 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: there's other things he does, and then see that you 498 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: know again is the totality of it. It's not one 499 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: thing that's going to make you think there's a homicide 500 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: if you take everything together. When he tells the police, 501 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: he said the alarm for four thirties till he could 502 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: leave by five, But then his truck shows that he 503 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: was leaving at three thirty. I mean, that's an not 504 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: a mistake you would make if you've got up at 505 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: three o'clock in the moat in a morning as opposed 506 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: to four to thirty. That's all the difference in the world. 507 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: And then he makes all those scots where he's getting 508 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: rid of things. Then he's got the spy pen that 509 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: captures her affair, not his. The chipmunk chasing what everybody 510 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: in the world knows. You ain't gonna be able to 511 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: chase no chipmunk. They're gonna be able to outrun you, 512 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: out zigzag you. And if you're trying to shoot an animal, 513 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: you stand still. So everything he says is this suspect. 514 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: When he's the one that entertains the idea that she 515 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: was attacked by a mountain line, even though there's zero evidence. 516 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: There's no blood, there's no animal hair, and there's no 517 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: body of Suzanne Moorephew, that's been ravaged by a mountline. 518 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: Like none of it makes any sense too, you, Cheryl McKinley. 519 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: Regarding the location of the helmet, the helmet, my understanding 520 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: is about a mile away from where the bike was found. 521 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: That's right. It was actually point eight Nancy. I had 522 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: to look that up the other day. But very morphew 523 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: when he made that left, Cheryl, and you're exactly right. 524 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: He was going to go to Broomfield, Colorado, but to 525 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: go to Broomfield yet to take a right, taking a left, 526 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: take ship further into the mountains. And what he said 527 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: was that he saw a bunch of elk crossing and 528 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: he wanted to make a note of where that was 529 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: because he's a hunter. That's that's why he said he 530 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: went to that location and made a U turn because 531 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: he realized, oh, I got to get back up to 532 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: Broomfield and go to work. And how close were his 533 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: meanderings to where her helmet was found? Well, it was 534 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: her helmet was found as if it was thrown off 535 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: the highway, right is that the highway he was driving 536 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: the highways right there, Yeah, the highways right there in 537 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: the slope of the mountain is on the side of 538 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: the highway. And the helmet is pretty far off the highway, 539 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: but could have thrown it, you know, it's not like 540 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: way way up in a remote area. But he made 541 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: a U turn, he said. And and it's right next 542 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: to where the helmet was found, because there's a mine 543 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: up there. There's an old There are mines all through 544 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: those mountains, and there's a mine. And they talked about 545 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: the mine, and he made a U turn at the 546 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: mine and then went on his way to go to 547 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,959 Speaker 1: work that Frinday morning, Mother's Day. So Matthew and Gino, 548 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: let's take a look at what Carol McKinley is telling 549 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: us from the Denver Gazette by his own words and 550 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: of course caught by cell phone and car data. He 551 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: goes that morning of all mornings, and chases down some elk, 552 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: according to him, three thirty in the morning, and then 553 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: he does a ue right where the helmet would have 554 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: been thrown, his missing wife's helmet. Well, he would have 555 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 1: a lot of blaming to do, you know, these actions 556 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: by him are unusual, they're they're bizarre, they're they're strange, 557 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: they don't seem to add up. But here's the thing 558 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: that we all know. He doesn't have to explain anything. 559 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: The prosecution has to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. 560 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: And then that's where I think the prosecution is not 561 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: going to have an easy time of it. I mean, 562 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: let's let's go back to the to the moving around, 563 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: to the dumpsters. You know, if I was defending this case, yeah, 564 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: he dropped things in five different dumpsters. I know there 565 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: was a year between her going missing and him being arrested. 566 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: But what did you find that You didn't find anything 567 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: in dumpsters? You didn't find anything, uh, you know in 568 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: the landfill if you went there and checked. I mean, so, yeah, 569 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: we have all this moving around, but we have nothing 570 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: to show for it. We have bizarre conduct, but we 571 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: have nothing to show for it. So well, I agree 572 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: that there's a explaining to do. The prosecution has the 573 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: responsibility of explaining what happened to the jury. I don't 574 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: have any problem without In fact, I would welcome that 575 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: it is the duty of the state to prove the 576 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: case beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond a mathematical certainty, 577 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: such as two and two equals four, but to the 578 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: point where the jury believes that that is what happened. 579 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: That Barrymorephew murdered his wife because she, Susanne Moorephew, was 580 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: leaving him, as she said in her text to her 581 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: friend just before she went missing. Yes, no, Carol McKinley 582 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: joining us from the Denver Gazette. Is it true that 583 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: Barrymorephew that morning was calling and gathering up a construction 584 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: crew on his way as he drove along. Is that correct? 585 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember if it was on his 586 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: way to Broomfield. What do you know, Cheryl McCollum. Yeah, 587 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that either. About Hey, what I do know, Nancy? 588 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: Law enforcement has done one hundred and thirty five churches, 589 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: and they've talked over four hundred people, and no other 590 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: suspect has material life. Well, of course I take great 591 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: heart in that, Cheryl McCollum. But proving a murder case 592 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: is not process of elimination. But I will tell you this. 593 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: She says just before she dies, that she is not 594 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: safe alone with her husband, Barry Morphew. She says that 595 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: he is a master of manipulation that he can get 596 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: his own daughters to believe him over her. I have 597 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: very rarely actually rephrase, I have never seen Cheryl McCollum 598 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: a case where there is domestic violence where the man 599 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: is beating and threatening the woman as she refers to 600 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: him Jacqueline Hyde, where the woman is then killed, and 601 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: it was anybody other than the abuser? Have you absolutely not? 602 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: So you would have me believe Matthew Mangino that after 603 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:40,399 Speaker 1: a long period of physical abuse, coincidentally on a day 604 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: when the two girls were away on a hiking trip, 605 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: a camping trip, on significantly Mother's Day, he hastily puts 606 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: together a crew that morning leaves at three thirty in 607 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: the morning that that day, of all days, an unknown 608 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: individual it takes is in Morphew and not her abees 609 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: or the last one known to be with her. Is 610 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: that your theory? Somebody else did it? Well? I mean, 611 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: if I'm representing Barry Morphew, it is my theory. And 612 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: this is erosion. You know, that's a lot of you know, 613 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: damning circumstantial weapon. But but but I would add that, 614 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: as we said earlier, you know, they interviewed one hundred 615 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: and thirty five or than one hundred and thirty five 616 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: search warrants or or you know, I don't know how 617 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: many volumes of pages of interviews. We don't have any 618 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: blood in the house. We don't have any physical evidence 619 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: in his vehicle or any place else that implicates him. 620 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean those things, well, that's you know, the police 621 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 1: work was really intense and involved other than the dart 622 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: gun evidence in the dryer. Yeah, okay, at dart gun, 623 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, but where's the weapons, where's her blood, where's 624 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: her where's that you know she's going? Well, we don't 625 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: know that. And isn't it true that Mallory informs her 626 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: father they could not find their mom? Mary Moore few 627 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: speaks to a neighbor asked him to check on Suzanne. 628 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: He I guess is a clairvoyant, because he asked the 629 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: neighbor to see if the mountain bike is at the house. 630 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 1: They find no sign of her or bike. He asked 631 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: them to call police, and instead of heading home immediately, 632 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: he drops off a shovel and other tools at a 633 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: hotel where he had booked rooms for them and himself, 634 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: and then around six pm he begins to drive home. 635 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: Is that true? Is that true, Cheryl, that's true. And Nancy, 636 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: I want to point out one more thing. Sometimes, you know, 637 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: you have to look at what the person does. Sometimes 638 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: what they don't do is also very telling. Here it's 639 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: some mother's day. He doesn't stay home an extra hour 640 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: or two and make her breakfast and bring her some flowers. 641 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: He doesn't even call her during that day to say 642 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: happy Mother's Day. That to me is oh, yeah, very hell. 643 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: He texted her that morning. No, no called her, calls herkner. 644 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: He does not call her, which is what somebody would 645 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: do to say, Hey, you know, I just want to 646 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: tell you I appreciate those two lovely daughters you've given us. 647 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 1: Happy Mother's Day. I'll be home at six, let's go 648 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: to dinner. He doesn't do that. What did the text say, 649 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: Carrol Mhinley, He just I don't know exactly, but it 650 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: was a happy Mother's Day text and it was early 651 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: in the morning on his way to Broomfield. He texted 652 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: his mom and he texted Suzanne at around the same time, 653 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: but then he texted her throughout the day. Cheryl, that 654 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: didn't mean to interrupt you there. I'm sorry, No, you're fine, 655 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: and I supportant for people to know. I was just 656 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: saying he didn't make a future plan with her about dinner. 657 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: He didn't do something overtly for her on that day 658 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: to market. A text message is a completely different form 659 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: of communication. Yeah. True, he did text her throughout the 660 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: day saying how are you, Where are you? You know 661 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: she never responded. That's like that, and she never responded 662 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: to him, right right, exactly, We wait as justice un falls. 663 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace comes story, signing off goodbye friend.