1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

6
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

7
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

8
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 3: super producer Pauled, Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are you.

9
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 3: You are here that makes this the stuff they don't

10
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 3: want you to know. We are returned. We are made

11
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,880
Speaker 3: whole stuff.

12
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 4: That don't want you to know. The return.

13
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:53,319
Speaker 3: Yes, please do call it a comeback forget ll cool Jay.

14
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 3: Here's a question to start tonight. Who doesn't want to

15
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 3: be more intelligent? Do you think anybody would a local question? Yeah,

16
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 3: on this question, who who would ever be given the

17
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 3: opportunity to say have an intuitive grasp of quantum mechanics

18
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 3: and respond by saying, nah, I'm good.

19
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 5: Maybe it's not your thing, I think there could be,

20
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 5: or just maybe it's too much power, too much pressure

21
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 5: to know all these things about the universe.

22
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,600
Speaker 4: I give it a pass.

23
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 2: I totally see what you mean. Like I think, I

24
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 2: think overall everybody would love having a little more of

25
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 2: an edge on whatever it is they're doing, right, whatever

26
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 2: it is is making them money or making their family

27
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 2: prosperous in the future of that kind of thing, Well.

28
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 5: That's more general. I'm talking about quantum mechanics specific, but yeah, I.

29
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 2: Mean, well, yeah, or even that superpower level kind of thing, right,

30
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 2: We've seen that associated with super human movies, right.

31
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 3: Sure, Limitless for instance, is.

32
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,600
Speaker 4: That the one where He's limitless?

33
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm gonna make that joke every time it's from

34
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,840
Speaker 5: the office, but I love that.

35
00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 2: But there is something to this I think that we

36
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,480
Speaker 2: should ponder as we go throughout. Often some of the

37
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 2: most genius human beings that have lived ride that line

38
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 2: between madness and genius, right where maybe knowing more and

39
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,679
Speaker 2: more and more could make you either more depressed or

40
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, that's absolutely true.

41
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, no, I hear you.

42
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 2: I think it's a balance.

43
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 3: I don't know.

44
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's sort of the more money, more problems,

45
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040
Speaker 5: or the intellectual or spiritual version of that, like, the

46
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 5: more you know, the more problems you see, then the more.

47
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 4: Like insane things make you because you know what's possible.

48
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 2: You know, the more complicated everything becomes.

49
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 4: In real time.

50
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,799
Speaker 3: The more you know, the more you know, and those

51
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 3: are not necessarily a good end result. Right, so we

52
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 3: arrive at this question. It's funny, this kind of idea

53
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 3: of a Faustian bargain. Uh, the majority of human beings,

54
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 3: I will posit would, up to a certain level, make

55
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 3: some sacrifices for the idea of easily acquired acumen, expertise,

56
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 3: or knowledge. You know, if someone said, Uh, if someone said,

57
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 3: would you would you give up the ability to speak

58
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 3: aloud if it made you good at math? Not everyone

59
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 3: would say yes. But if if they said, if they said,

60
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 3: for instance, would you sacrifice your left pinky toe to

61
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 3: any instrument? Because at least.

62
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 5: Important to yeah, the instruments that require the use of

63
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 5: your left pinky toes.

64
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 3: That's where the monkeys has a finger curled out tonight.

65
00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 3: In tonight's episode, we are continuing conspiratorial exploration of a

66
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 3: very controversial thing known as the modern dietary supplement industry,

67
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 3: and we are focusing on this idea of improving a

68
00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 3: thing people still can't define the nature of intelligence, the

69
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,840
Speaker 3: idea that the ingestion of certain substances can improve the

70
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 3: function of your brain. Right now, these things collectively are

71
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,599
Speaker 3: known as new tropics in oo tropics. Get ready, folks,

72
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 3: it's a weird one. Here are the facts, all right.

73
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,720
Speaker 3: People have always been trying to sort of get better, right,

74
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,400
Speaker 3: or get good as we say, in the world of gaming.

75
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 5: Man, I had a really fun conversation with our buddy

76
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,280
Speaker 5: Frank the other day about how like the human ear

77
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 5: or like the human hearing abilities is represented by a

78
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 5: certain range, and he positive that what if there were

79
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 5: a thing you could do to make your brain perceive

80
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 5: a larg arger range of sound, Like is it a

81
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 5: question of the equipments, you know, limitations, or is it

82
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 5: a question of the programmings limitations like firmware updates, you know,

83
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 5: on a piece of hardware.

84
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,559
Speaker 4: I don't know the answer.

85
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,279
Speaker 5: I do think maybe the human ear mechanics is limited

86
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 5: to a certain age.

87
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,919
Speaker 4: There are other things that maybe we have the abil.

88
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 5: The potential to be able to do, but there's not

89
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 5: the programming, not the you know, the software ware.

90
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's because the brain is in a lot

91
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,720
Speaker 2: of ways, it is hardware, right, but it is software based.

92
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 2: Because if you think of language and all of these things,

93
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 2: we'll get into it. Because the language hasn't always been around, right,

94
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 2: Humans have been around for a long time, and they've

95
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 2: been trying to improve since they started, since we started.

96
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of man hashtag new Devil's Advocate. I

97
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 3: am a fan of the human.

98
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 5: Strive, you know, Like I thought you said, I'm a

99
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,920
Speaker 5: fan of man, like I like the soft drink Fana

100
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 5: the best.

101
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 4: That's my best. I thought you were doing a thing.

102
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,679
Speaker 4: But I'm a fan of man as well.

103
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 3: Who you carry those bricks for, Kevin. Human history has

104
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 3: been a study and self improvement since the first time

105
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,840
Speaker 3: they domesticated fire, and we got to get this out

106
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,200
Speaker 3: of the way. Modern humans, to your point, Matt, predate

107
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,960
Speaker 3: what we recognize as documented history, Like you go back

108
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 3: far enough so the average Like if you're listening to

109
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 3: this and you're human, then your Homo sapien Esque or

110
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 3: whatever early mixtape it goes back to. It goes back

111
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 3: to three hundred thousand years or so, basically, and documented

112
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 3: human society is a very small portion of that. So

113
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 3: a great deal of human invention, innovation, trial and error.

114
00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 3: It is lost, it is gone, It is restricted to

115
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 3: myth and legend. If you look back post by cameral

116
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 3: mind argument, then we'll see that the human ancestors were

117
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 3: just as intelligent as the modern humans today, and people

118
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 3: still don't know what intelligence is. Like it's easy for

119
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 3: us to look back in twenty twenty four with the

120
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 3: benefit of retrospect, and we have to realize that as

121
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 3: you are listening to this now, you are standing on

122
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 3: the shoulders of ancestors, the vast majority of whom are dead.

123
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 3: And all the modern benefits, all the things that make

124
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 3: humans seem quote unquote smarter, now they're a result of

125
00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 3: a lot of people screwing up, you know, and maybe

126
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 3: one out of just cocktail math here, maybe one out

127
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 3: of one hundred thousand figured out something cool.

128
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 5: I guess that's part of my question or my point

129
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,520
Speaker 5: maybe is like about the nature of human physiology over time,

130
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 5: Like certainly we've developed parts of our brains that over

131
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,320
Speaker 5: time have gotten bigger, you know, because of certain tasks

132
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 5: we no longer had to do, and then parts of

133
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 5: the brain that no longer need to do that thing

134
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 5: can evolve to do another thing, and etc. So I mean,

135
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 5: I'm not a brain scientist, but I know that there

136
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 5: are studies that look at the development and the evolution

137
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 5: of the human brain. But the majority of that stuff

138
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 5: is caused by ideas and exchanges of ideas and concepts

139
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 5: and things that are learned behaviors.

140
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 3: Right, the modern human benefits from things like better control

141
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 3: over the environment, better access to education, progress towards the

142
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 3: eternal struggle for sanitation and public health. Like you know,

143
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 3: let's be honest, if you were hearing this now, fellow

144
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, please please understand, you would not be some crazy,

145
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,560
Speaker 3: awesome wizard if you traveled back in time. And that's

146
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 3: not a ding on an anybody. It's just noting that

147
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 3: most of us today as individuals do not understand the

148
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 3: breakthroughs from which we benefit. We would be hard put

149
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 3: to replicate those breakthroughs and innovations if we like, if

150
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 3: you travel back before the invention of steel.

151
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 1: Do you know how to do that?

152
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 3: Do you know how to make steel? Right? I mean,

153
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 3: I think we just civilization maybe looks down or looks

154
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 3: as scance on people of the past. And it's especially

155
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,560
Speaker 3: rich when we understand we do not have actionable definitions

156
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 3: for intelligence or consciousness. We do know some people appear

157
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 3: to have knacks for certain genres. We could call them

158
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 3: of intellect, Like some people have innate musical talent right now,

159
00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 3: as you're listening, We're very privileg to have some real

160
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 3: titans here. Like, no, Matt, I'm not blowing smoke. You

161
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 3: guys are incredibly talented musicians. You're super good at it

162
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,680
Speaker 3: to a level that not everybody can attain realistically.

163
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 5: Even that's a nature nurture question too, because I mean,

164
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 5: I grew up with musician parents and I was constantly

165
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,320
Speaker 5: surrounded by it. But I mean, I don't know your situation,

166
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 5: but you know you certainly made choices early on to

167
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 5: improve those abilities. Maybe you had some of it innate,

168
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,600
Speaker 5: but then you got good at it by repetition and

169
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 5: by like being in the jazz band and then playing

170
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 5: drums and being in bands and stuff.

171
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, a lot of those kinds of skills end

172
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,840
Speaker 2: up being, like you said, a choice to improve. But

173
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 2: I I would just say, anybody who is skilled in

174
00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,319
Speaker 2: those things deals with the same things that are also

175
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,640
Speaker 2: innate to all these humans that follow that trail all

176
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 2: the way back. Things like boredom, like mental boredom, physical stress,

177
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 2: and like being tired, right, and like being exhausted and

178
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 2: worn out, and all of the things that you know,

179
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,959
Speaker 2: we could if we could improve right, not getting bored,

180
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 2: not getting tired, those kinds of things that you could

181
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 2: use drugs for. There could be major, major benefits to

182
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 2: anyone's trying to improve in one thing or another, whether

183
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 2: that's music or you know, understanding mathematics more or whatever

184
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 2: the pursuit is.

185
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, great point, Matt. Also, some people seem to intuitively

186
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 3: understand math. In colloquial I guess Western society they call

187
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,360
Speaker 3: it having a knack for a thing. We also know

188
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,319
Speaker 3: the human animal is out of all the animals living.

189
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 3: The human animal is the thing that said, I don't

190
00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 3: have to spend millions of years evolving and create tools.

191
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 3: The human is the great artificer. The human says, I

192
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,160
Speaker 3: will build things to better my experience. The human is

193
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 3: the machine that seeks to hack evolution. It is a

194
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 3: machine that is built to improve upon itself, which hadn't

195
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,640
Speaker 3: happened before improvable history. And you know, humans have spent

196
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 3: a lot of time on this endeavor, on this hustle.

197
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 3: You know, there are efforts like eugenetics, which is problematic

198
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 3: deep stain or racism and pseudoscience, and then there's stuff

199
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,199
Speaker 3: like you know, humans always figure out how to do

200
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 3: more with less remote work is an example of that.

201
00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,679
Speaker 3: Drone warfare and mass surveillance are examples of that. Social

202
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 3: media manipulation, certain chemical substances. Humans love a chemical substance.

203
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 3: They're not alone in that one. Dolphins get high, you know,

204
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,440
Speaker 3: elephants get drunk.

205
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:02,480
Speaker 4: Is.

206
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 3: Humans are figuring out some really weird stuff.

207
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, Speaking of the music side of things, I actually

208
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 5: had a really interesting interview when I was traveling into

209
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 5: this music festival and these two really incredible producers, Guy

210
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,679
Speaker 5: ag Cook and the sud goes By Sego Bodego. We're

211
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 5: having this really cool conversation about their creative process.

212
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 4: And Sego Bodega, who's.

213
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 5: This uh thing, he's Irish producer whose name, real name

214
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 5: I don't remember. He was saying, like, you know, a

215
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,559
Speaker 5: lot of what inspires him as this idea of why

216
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,839
Speaker 5: do we have to sleep? Like the question of why

217
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 5: can I supply myself with all the nutrients that I

218
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 5: need to subsist and be supposedly, you know, have enough

219
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 5: death of calories or whatever to keep me going, and

220
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 5: yet no matter what, eventually, inevitably I am going to

221
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,680
Speaker 5: have to sleep. And people take drugs like amphetamines and

222
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 5: uppers and even energy drinks to try to not sleep

223
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,080
Speaker 5: as long as possible, but inevitably that bill comes due

224
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,680
Speaker 5: and the human machine to power down at some point.

225
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 5: So that's the whole limitless idea is what if we

226
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 5: could do something like get rid of the need to

227
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:07,559
Speaker 5: sleep entirely.

228
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 4: Think about how much more productive we'd be, you know?

229
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 2: Or if you could remember absolutely everything that you read?

230
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 4: Yeah? Right?

231
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 2: Can you? Can you take a substance that gives you

232
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,680
Speaker 2: a more photographic memory?

233
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 4: Ah?

234
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 3: And here we get to the crux of it. We're

235
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 3: not talking about substances like LSD or you know, synaesthesia

236
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 3: producing whose synogenics. We're not talking about recreational drugs. It

237
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 3: might alter your mind state in an enjoyable way that

238
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 3: makes you maybe feel a little better at things than

239
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 3: you actually are. We're talking about a group of compounds

240
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 3: that could, in theory, make that you a better you,

241
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 3: higher executive functions like you're talking about matt better attention,

242
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 3: better listening skills, and ability to focus, to retain, to

243
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 3: synthesize information, perhaps even onto the idea of ediotic or

244
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 3: graphic memory. This brings us to new tropics and attempt

245
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 3: to fix processes or improved processes the humans do not

246
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 3: yet fully understand. So tonight's question, can a pill really

247
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 3: make you limitless? Will pause for a word from our sponsor.

248
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. I guess it defined. I

249
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 3: guess it depends on what we mean by fix fix.

250
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have seen new tropics defined as in a

251
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 2: bunch of different ways. We've got a couple here that

252
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 2: it's pretty much what been described right before we went

253
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 2: to the break. These are substances, an umbrella term for

254
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:55,680
Speaker 2: substances that purport to boost creativity and memory and cognitive

255
00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 2: abilities of all sorts, any brain function basically, or anything

256
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 2: you could tie to your brain having power over whatever

257
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 2: it is. New tropics might and probably would fit under that.

258
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 2: And they're supplements, by the way. They they're not drugs.

259
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 2: There's some of them, there are few, but most of

260
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 2: them are just supplements you get over the counter.

261
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the question is, uh, what the question? People miss

262
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 3: In a lot of these excited pieces of ad copy

263
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 3: and these weird Silicon Valley ted talks, they're conflating cognitive function,

264
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 3: which we do understand, with intelligence, which we do not.

265
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 3: Cognitive function is best to find as a series of

266
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 3: distinct abilities and the measure of those abilities in your brain.

267
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 3: So new tropics are often called on the street. Smart

268
00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 3: drugs are memory enhancing substances or cognitive in answers. I

269
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 3: would like to give a very special shout out to

270
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 3: our long running shadow producer. One of my favorite new

271
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,159
Speaker 3: tropics caffeine.

272
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, wait really so yeah. When I'm talking about

273
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 5: like the ability to stave off sleep or to sharpen

274
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 5: our mental acuity a little bit, I guess my initial

275
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,280
Speaker 5: go to is something like caffeine or nicotine or you know, cocaine.

276
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 5: You know, I mean stuff that like like the soldiers

277
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 5: would take so they could go, go go and like

278
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 5: never have to back down.

279
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's always a blitz, right, it's always Halloween

280
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 3: in America.

281
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 2: Well, and for me, jumping in with caffeine is stuff

282
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 2: like vitamin B six and B twelve, nice riboflavin. I'm

283
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 2: not really sure why.

284
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 3: Tarn hauene would be another ye.

285
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 2: Chromium that sound dangerous?

286
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 5: Could you shoot some chromium right into my neck? It

287
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,679
Speaker 5: sounds like apptop. You know B twelve people get that, like,

288
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 5: you know, touring bands for example, like rock and roll lifestyle, Right,

289
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 5: they'll have a doctor on staff that'll shoot their ass

290
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 5: up full of B twelve when they're flagging a little bit.

291
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 3: Scientology will force you to ingest superhuman amounts of niocin. Also, uh,

292
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 3: the active I think the real kick people get from

293
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 3: things like five hour energy drink is a composition of

294
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 3: vitamin bees and vitamin bees. Makes me think of ingesting

295
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 3: just bees. These folks don't eat bees. Let them make

296
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 3: the honey.

297
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 5: Eat the honey. That's very unpleasant thought bees called me

298
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 5: in the morning. You never it might sting a little

299
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 5: going down, but I promise it's worth it perfect.

300
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 3: Uh. Neo Tropics are Nootropics are again, as you were saying, Matt,

301
00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 3: they are a dangerously vague umbrella tur The term includes

302
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,399
Speaker 3: prescription medications, but also it also includes a lot of

303
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 3: supplements that have no sort of oversight whatsoever. They are

304
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 3: in general going to be called nootropics if they again

305
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 3: purport to improve some aspect of your cognition, your thinking,

306
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,239
Speaker 3: your memory like Saint John's will make you in a

307
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 3: good mood, et cetera, your attention, your creativity, your motivation.

308
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 3: And we know that by far the most common nootropic

309
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 3: substances are at this point stimulants and the ones that

310
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 3: are prescription their FDA approved. The Federal Drug Administration in

311
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 3: the United States is currently on board with a bevy

312
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 3: of neotropics as long as they are aimed at improving

313
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 3: attention DEFICI, hyperactivity disorder, and symptoms of dementia or Alzheimer's.

314
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 3: Those are the only ones that are kind of real.

315
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want some amphetamine salts, you can get

316
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 2: those if you get a prescription, which is harder and

317
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 2: harder to get nowadays.

318
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 3: For like I would, but I keep napping, Matt Man,

319
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 3: Chris slacking off, dude, get to it.

320
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 2: Get limitless every two hours, like you take twenty minutes

321
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: or whatever.

322
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 5: It adds up, right, How people attempted things like that,

323
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 5: or like there's like, you know, kind of hogwash lore

324
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 5: about CEOs that only nap five minutes in the time

325
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 5: or something like that.

326
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: Well, I know we dabbled in it, Ben, I think

327
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 2: you went harder on the paint than I did. I

328
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 2: tried for a little while back in the day doing that.

329
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 2: I forget who we learned about. It was somebody really

330
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: famous that we learned about. Did it pretty effectively.

331
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 3: Talking about polyphasic sleep.

332
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, not for me.

333
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 3: Man, Genetically, I am one of the folks who doesn't

334
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 3: doesn't jibe with the eight hour every twenty four hour formula.

335
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 3: So you know, yeah, we'll see how it works out.

336
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 3: But the only time will tell. Only time will tell.

337
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 2: Uh.

338
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 3: The issue is that outside of the prescribed stuff, outside

339
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 3: of those you know, like the Adderalls, the Riddlins and

340
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: so on, there are a lot of self proclaimed new

341
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: tropics that make some pretty bold assertions and a lot

342
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,479
Speaker 3: of the Even though a lot of the prescribed stuff,

343
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff the FDA and other regulatory

344
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 3: bodies agree to, they still encounter what we'll call off

345
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 3: label use. Maybe we talk a little bit about off

346
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 3: label use, most famous example recently being no zembic.

347
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 5: I mean, I've had a lot of experience with off

348
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 5: label use everything from like this is sort of a

349
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 5: thing for this but it kind of works like a

350
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 5: type to pressant.

351
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 4: It seems to be really positive for some users.

352
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 5: And you know, I think I've been open about the

353
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 5: fact that I tried, like, what's a compounded version of

354
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 5: one of those zepic.

355
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 4: Type drugs that it didn't work. Wasn't for me.

356
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 5: I read too much about it, and it freaked me

357
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 5: out and I discontinued very quickly.

358
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 4: But I'm shocked.

359
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 5: I went through a period of sleeplessness many years ago

360
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 5: where I had really bad insomnia and the doctor was

361
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 5: more than willing to prescribe me something off label that

362
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 5: would help with my insomnia.

363
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 4: It didn't at all, But it was shocking to google.

364
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 5: It and realize what it was originally for, and they

365
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 5: seemed completely unrelated, and just I don't know, goes to

366
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 5: show that it's really is kind of practicing medicine.

367
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 4: What are you loving?

368
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 2: Look at? Ben was given just this really interesting Oh

369
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I'm sorry you were so concerned

370
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: about like like, oh my god.

371
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 4: Those pastors tried to judy you know.

372
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 5: That's the thing and I've talked about I recently talked

373
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 5: about to like, you know, my father, institution of him

374
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 5: being prescribed stuff off label for certain you know, psychologics.

375
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: I just don't care for it. It's like, that's what

376
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 4: I'm getting at. It seems very improvisational. This is what

377
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 4: I'm going is what I'm implying.

378
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's medicine. The space for jazz Ooh.

379
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: Yes, maybe it moves to the beat of jazz.

380
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 5: It's a real cosmic gumbod.

381
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: I was just watching Rewatching the Righteous Gemstones, and there's

382
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 2: a moment where Jesse Gemstone is like celebrating and he

383
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 2: goes behind his desk and he's like, all right, baby,

384
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: I'm a popin Adderall. But like as though it's just

385
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 2: a drug that he has that he's not using for

386
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: actually what he is supposed to be using it for.

387
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: It's just he's going to celebrate with it.

388
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, yeah, Adderall, when you're here your family, Yeah, sorry, Adderall.

389
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: Is also, of course, I love that we're alluding to this,

390
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 3: the the historical weaponization of these substances in times of war, right,

391
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: like methamphetamines obviously played a huge role in World War

392
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: Two for sure and in later wars. And spoiler you

393
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 3: don't have to write in if you don't want to, folks,

394
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: but we have it on good authority. There are still

395
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 3: some US Air Force and US Navy folks who are

396
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: prescribed amphetamines for some long range.

397
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: Flights or something very similar.

398
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, something not quite there, But these medications. When we're

399
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,239
Speaker 3: talking about off label, what we're saying is some of

400
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: these stuff that is used to treat dementia and ADHD.

401
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 3: It's improving a what is seen as a problem or

402
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: a misstep. Yet in the off label use, these medications

403
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 3: can also be used by healthy adults as an attempt

404
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: to boost mental functioning beyond what they see as its

405
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 3: normal baseline. We go to the history is nuts, all right.

406
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 3: So there's a guy named c Georgia. Georgia pronunciations it's great, No,

407
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: it does see Italian or Romanian. Perhaps it sounds like

408
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: us saying Georgia the state with Georgia.

409
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 4: I'm a fan of mia from Georgia.

410
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: Who you're carrying all those bricks for Georgia. This guy's

411
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: a Romanian chemist. He's a psychologist. He's often called the

412
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 3: father of neotropics because he developed something called parasitam, one

413
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: of the first known and proven cognition enhancing drugs. It's

414
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: part of a group called race tam And this stuff

415
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: is developed originally to treat motion sickness. Kind of like,

416
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 3: how what was it? Viagra was originally meant as some

417
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: sort of cardiovascular medication.

418
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's about blood flow, life.

419
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: Flow, Yes, sir, improving it. Give me all the blood

420
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 4: flow you got and.

421
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: Then damn it it up in one very.

422
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: At all these guys, all the people in those uh

423
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 3: in those early studies who died, they died with the

424
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: best boners of their lives. Uh.

425
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 5: If you want to use the scientific word pri episms, yes,

426
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 5: like trotten that one out.

427
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 4: I like that word.

428
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 3: A troubling erection, a direction that lasts more than what

429
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: is it.

430
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 4: Stats? I just do know that is the scientific word

431
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 4: for a for a boner.

432
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 3: It's the boner that doesn't stop. It's the marathon.

433
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, which again, you know a lot of people that

434
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 5: don't have a rectile dysfunction take those pills as a

435
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 5: sex enhancer, like it's a big thing. And in certain

436
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: communities it's it's considered a party drug, you know, in

437
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 5: a way it's like poppers and boner pills, y'all.

438
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: Huh do you like my erection selection? That quote? That's

439
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: fair you can find it.

440
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: Yes, famous friend of the show, that Paul Rudd, connoisseur

441
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: of erections. Also also young forever by the way he's

442
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: getting into acting here, I love alright, So uh.

443
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 5: Neotropics ageless though, speaking of New tropics, was that guy

444
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 5: got going on bathing and children or something?

445
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: Everything was a.

446
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 4: Rumor, I know, but I know it was.

447
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 5: But it's alright, it's you got some people though, how

448
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 5: they just look young forever?

449
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 4: Is it just clean living? Is it, you know, genetics?

450
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: Is it a combination of the two or these people

451
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 5: just have the best suit, secret spy doctors that are

452
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 5: giving them all the good drugs behind the scenes.

453
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: Okay, come, and we can say that the etymology of

454
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 3: new Tropic comes from the Greek. So this Romanian doctor

455
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 3: figures out parasitam and says this is a whole new

456
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: type of drug. The Greek word is noose for mind

457
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 3: and trippyn for to bend. In other words, this literally

458
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: translates to mind and drugs.

459
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: That's so cool.

460
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 5: So Georgia said that no tropic drugs should have these

461
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 5: following particular qualities, these characteristics, and you're gonna hear a

462
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 5: lot of the things we've already been talking about in

463
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 5: this list, things like enhancing of ability to learn and memory,

464
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 5: also enhancing the ability to I guess reject negative learned behaviors.

465
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 5: So I guess this would be maybe in terms of

466
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 5: like breaking addictions or you know, patterns of things that

467
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 5: are you know, not beneficial to us as humans.

468
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, breaking those also protecting the brain against various physical

469
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: or chemical injuries, such that if you got a real

470
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: wallop on your cranium, the new tropic could perhaps help

471
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: you bounce back a bit better.

472
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: Whoa, And also chemical injuries. So it kind of reminds

473
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: me of those specific PB pills that we learned about

474
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: that were taken or at least given to soldiers to

475
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: prevent neurological effects of neurotoxins.

476
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: It's an interesting and fascinating, if ambitious part of the classification.

477
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: Also talking about the ethic increasing the mechanics of certain

478
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: regions of the brain, different mechanisms like tonic cortical control mechanisms.

479
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: What the hell is that?

480
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: It's We're very fun at parties. Tonic cortical control is

481
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: the idea that your brain can it can improve the

482
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 3: self regulation of certain things while other chemicals intrude into your.

483
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 5: Usual program, So maintaining stasis in the face of uh,

484
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 5: maybe outside stimuli, right then maybe yeah, in drug form

485
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 5: even right.

486
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: They should also yeah, to your point, no, they should

487
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: also not include the adverse effects of other established what

488
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: we call psychotropic substances.

489
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 5: Wait a minute, they should be all good, positive stuff

490
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 5: that makes you better with none of the side effects.

491
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: This sounds made up, guys, I don't know. I think

492
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 5: there is usually a push pull in these things. If you,

493
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: you know, get improvement in one thing, then something's coming

494
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 5: down the line to kick you in the pants later.

495
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 4: I don't absolutely not.

496
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 5: I don't mean to pooh pooh this stuff, but it

497
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 5: does feel a little too good to be true. That's

498
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 5: how I feel about the hole ozempic thing. And you're

499
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 5: starting to hear it with people that are like, oh no,

500
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 5: and now my stomach's digesting itself and I can't eat

501
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 5: cupcakes anymore or else like, you know, want to vomit wildly.

502
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 5: That's a side effect, y'all. I hate to tell you

503
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 5: that is a side effect.

504
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: And just to point out here, it's listed that sedation

505
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: as in, you know, a lot of the actual over

506
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: the counter substances that we get prescribed will make you

507
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: a little more sedate in order to do something like

508
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: improve your body's ability to repair itself or fight off

509
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: infections or things like that, right, or motor stimulation adderall caffeine,

510
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: you know, all these other drugs that would be kind

511
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: of considered nootropics at least have been considered Neotropics are

512
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: gonna do that thing where maybe you're a little more jittery,

513
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 2: or maybe your body is your heart is beating a

514
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: little faster.

515
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: That's true. A great example, Prestem is not approved by

516
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: the FDA here in the US, but in the United

517
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: Kingdom it is a prescription drug primarily used for condition

518
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: called mile clonus, which is a little twitchy, well like

519
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: the muscle regular muscle twitching.

520
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: Wow, But yes, I mean that thing you're just describing, Matt.

521
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 5: You know, that dormant that you're making you a little

522
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 5: sedate so that your body can go into sort of

523
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 5: a standby mode and repair itself.

524
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: What does that remind you of a sleep? Maybe? You

525
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: know it's another stand.

526
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: In for the nearly high road.

527
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry, I thought you were going to say, like,

528
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: just turn turn us off and then turn us back on.

529
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, three starts.

530
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 4: I mean even computers need it every now and again.

531
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 4: That's where there's out the cobwebs.

532
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: That's where the blood flow medication comes in.

533
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: Right there we are, And so as we're noting this

534
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: is original uh specific criteria, but the term new tropics

535
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: now refers to three large groups uh entirely comprised of

536
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: any quote natural or synthetic substance end quote that may

537
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: have have a positive effect on mental skills. If you're

538
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: looking for the three categories, they are dietary supplements, synthetic compounds,

539
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: and prescription drugs. Favorite sponsor this show Just Rug, Just

540
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: just drugs.

541
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 5: Brought to you by I think guys, I've got a

542
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 5: now tagline for drugs.

543
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 4: Drugs. Just take them.

544
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: You know.

545
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 4: They're good for you.

546
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 3: Drugs doing real, useful, good rapid.

547
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 5: Ah.

548
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we're gonna pause for sponsors, and we've returned.

549
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: So let's go to some of the experts. John Hopkins Medicine.

550
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 3: You know they got a lot of offins ledagg heads.

551
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: One of them Barry Gordon, I mean, MD, PhDs, the

552
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: director of the Cognitive Neurology neuropsych Cology Division there.

553
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, awesome, No, I'm joking. It's amazing. It's amazing. Smart

554
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: people are amazing.

555
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: He strikes me as education is non intelligence. He strikes

556
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 3: me as a very humble, very very well thought out dude.

557
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: And he says, there is he said in a very

558
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: diplomatic way. He advances the idea that this may be

559
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: a bit of a gilded turd in some situations. He says,

560
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: there's no strong evidence that supplements being sold now right,

561
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: the first of our big three categories, there's no strong

562
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: evidence that their supposed powers of efficacy are helpful. And

563
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: he says further, there's not even a lot of science

564
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: showing us that those are safe in the massive amounts

565
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 3: in which they could be consumed. You know, like if

566
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: you are if you are looking at provable, provable efficacy

567
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: for these sorts of substances, then you are looking generally

568
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: at things that are mitigating what we would call human

569
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: cognitive dysfunctions treating ADHD. Right, if you don't have ADHD

570
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 3: and you take adderall, then you're kind of taking speed.

571
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely just infetamine salts. Maybe that's what they do.

572
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 4: Conjacks you up.

573
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 5: But I've always thought it was bizarre, mean to your

574
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 5: point about off label stuff, right, Even that term to

575
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 5: me disas to exist constantly.

576
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 4: With quote finkers.

577
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 5: But like, how come if you genuinely have this condition,

578
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 5: this stuff calms you down, but if you don't, it

579
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 5: just does the exact opposite. I've always found that fascinating

580
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 5: and bizarre.

581
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: And here in the United States, new tropics are a

582
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 3: lot like other dietary supplements. They seem to promise a

583
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: great many things, but they don't have any consequences for

584
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 3: lying to the customer. You know, it's not prescribed medicine.

585
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 3: There's not formal testing nor verification by reputable independent entities.

586
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: Just a few years ago, the FDA and the FTC

587
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: said hey, everyone in the world, please watch out. There

588
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: are frauds and scams afoot.

589
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, just as we talked about with supplements before,

590
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: the FDA will generally or you know, the FDA doesn't

591
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: regulate right, but generally you can get away with putting

592
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: whatever you want on your supplement as long as it's

593
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: not crazy, right, as long as it's not super out there,

594
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: and you can have a study, let's say, a clinical

595
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: study that shows one particular component in your specific neotropic

596
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: drug had some effect on some mice in one study

597
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,959
Speaker 2: at one time with brain cells. There were maybe mice

598
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: brain cells that were taken out putting it into a

599
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: petri dish. This substance, maybe amongst others, was applied to

600
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: that Petrie dish and something good happened. So so Now

601
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: what was it, Matt?

602
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 4: What was it? What could happen?

603
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: Well, there's an article in GQ written in twenty eighteen

604
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 2: by this guy, Jay Willis that took a bunch of

605
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: different new tropics and tried them all, and he just

606
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 2: pointed out that you can you can write on these

607
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: bottles or these packages stuff that sounds great, like improves memory,

608
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: and just tie it in some way or another to

609
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: some you know, one off study. And as we've learned

610
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: in this show, one off studies generally don't mean jack

611
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: unless you can do it over and over and over

612
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: and over again.

613
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, like longitudinal studies.

614
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, studies.

615
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 5: Yes, No, it's true. It's it's basically like a sample

616
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 5: size of one.

617
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 3: You know.

618
00:37:58,719 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, if.

619
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 5: This it just I think you said it best, Matt.

620
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 5: It absolutely, it's absolutely meaningless. But also a lot of

621
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 5: these supplements, while they are regulated by the FDA, they

622
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 5: don't receive the same scrutiny and need for like clinical

623
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 5: trials and anything like that as something that would be prescribed.

624
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 5: And in the United States, it feels like the line

625
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 5: between those things sometimes really blurs too, because some of

626
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 5: the stuff think is prescribed starts to feel a little

627
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 5: more like pie in the sky, you know, kind of sorcery.

628
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,959
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Well, and if you don't have to label.

629
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 4: I'm gonna keep harping on that it means mad.

630
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: Well even if just think, if you don't have to

631
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: do a double blind, placebo controlled study, then your substance.

632
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: All it has to do is fifty percent of the

633
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: time make somebody feel like their memory is better for shadow, right, sorry,

634
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: as low.

635
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 3: As thirty percent.

636
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just if it has just an uptick a

637
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: little bit in your whatever studies you did internally, then

638
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: you're good to go write it on there and think

639
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 2: about how much people want the stuff we've been talking

640
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: about today.

641
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm so solution oi, And I'll tell you what

642
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: if this startup, if this startup just needed me to

643
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 3: only sleep two hours out of twenty four hours, then

644
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: we would get all the venture funding capital we need.

645
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 5: Think about cocaine, So listen, he's gonna look kind of

646
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 5: like an anthropomorphic sperm and have little Olympic rings around

647
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 5: his tail and have giant cartoon eyes and oversized sneakers.

648
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: Sell it.

649
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 4: What about the torch.

650
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 3: The torch doesn't do flames.

651
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 4: It does stars.

652
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: We're so smart we're talking about the nineteen ninety six

653
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: Olympic Atlanta mascot.

654
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and also they're giant robots, but they're also

655
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 2: cars and they're aliens. It's gonna be awesome.

656
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: Well, I got a question. How many explosions are there?

657
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 3: Let's up the explosions. Get the numbers up. So anyway,

658
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: should be no surprise that new tropics are a cause

659
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: celebrate in Silicon Valley new tech world overall. There was

660
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: this great Atlantic article by Olga cousin credit where it's due,

661
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: that has a profile of a guy who founded a

662
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: company that distributes new tropics. It's called New True in

663
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: oo tro of course, is really cute.

664
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: New tropics already sounds goofy as hell.

665
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 5: It sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like a

666
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: cream or something you would put a rejuvenation rejuvenating cream.

667
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they they haven't sold the cream yet. But

668
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 3: the topical application of neotropics is a very interesting field.

669
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 3: You may be the first to post on this one.

670
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: Oh jeez, always on the cutting edge.

671
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 3: So Eric Motzner, he is, he's it's twenty eleven and

672
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: he is running a one man startup. Basically, he's doing

673
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 3: all the code. He's right, n ad copy, he's teaching himself.

674
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: He's taking calls with you know, angel investors and whatnot.

675
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: And by his own admission, he's dependent upon prescription amphetamines

676
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 3: and then later anti narcolepsy drugs. And he has this moment,

677
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: this revelation, Paul, can we get an epiphany? Sound perfect?

678
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: He says, I don't need to just stay awake for longer.

679
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: I need to be able to learn more quickly, to

680
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: retain and to synthesize information.

681
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 4: Well like freaking about it.

682
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: Almost called him Johnny namonk like Neo in the matrix

683
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 5: you know, or is that he knows kung fu.

684
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: Just download that right into my brain.

685
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 3: Yes, a way to help him instantly memorize and synthesize

686
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 3: new information and furthermore, to encode that in long term memory.

687
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: So Kazan notes that he switches to good old Georgio's

688
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: hit Parasitam, and then he notices he says, look, my

689
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: attention SPAN's improving, I'm better at listening, my reaction time

690
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 3: is better, and so he starts going deep into like

691
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: the wetwear biohacking forums. So we've talked about previously and

692
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 3: he says, I want to make a better stack. A

693
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 3: stack is the A stack is.

694
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 4: A full stack, baby.

695
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: A stack is what we call the regimen of substances

696
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: that people ingest in an attempt to improve their cognitive function.

697
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 4: All this stuff really too makes me.

698
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 5: I know, it's highly influenced by the matrix and a

699
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 5: lot of this kind of cyberpunk writing. But the game cyberpunk,

700
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 5: you know, it's all about these implants and these wetwear

701
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 5: and how can we you know, jack them up and

702
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 5: add more implants to allow us to be limitless, you know,

703
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 5: to have and only the wealthy can have the higher

704
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 5: quality implants. They're always kicking the asses of the poor kids.

705
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. It also goes back to the art and science

706
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: of coding rights like coding, because if you think about

707
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: the term stack in that realm.

708
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 4: It's what I was saying, full stack.

709
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 5: Yes, it's a.

710
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: Series of pieces of software you were going to use

711
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 2: to build out.

712
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 4: Your code, exactly right.

713
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: And if we're thinking about these substances as literally changing

714
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: our software to improve I guess our hardware, it makes

715
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 2: so much sense.

716
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 5: So we were saying all this at the top of

717
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 5: the I mean, it's absolutely yes, it's so interesting, terrifying,

718
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 5: and then the whole gatekeeper aspect of it becomes part

719
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 5: of the conversation.

720
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 4: Now, who can afford it? Who gets the best drugs.

721
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 5: It's becoming the case already with things like Ozeenpeic so

722
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 5: expensive insurance won't pay for it. You're starting to see

723
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 5: all these celebrities taking it, but like your average person

724
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 5: that maybe are morbidly obese and could benefit health wise,

725
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 5: not just aesthetically, can't afford it, or they don't have

726
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 5: the right diagnosis to get insurance to pay for it.

727
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: It's just a tip of the iceberg with this kind

728
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 4: of stuff.

729
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: Yes, agreed, unfortunately, and it does. Look when this guy

730
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: launches New True he is motivating.

731
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 4: Sounds like he is.

732
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 3: Motivated by what he feels is his personal lived experience,

733
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 3: and if you listen to the speeches he's made, if

734
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 3: you read the interviews, he wants to bring this to

735
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: the people. And twenty fourteen he launches this company, he

736
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: relocates the San Francisco Home of great Ideas. Anyway, these

737
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 3: businesses are operating in a gray area, and a lot

738
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: of them obviously are being run in good faith. These

739
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: folks are not necessarily trying to sell harmful snake oil

740
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: or fake panaceas. But in this gray area between dietary

741
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: supplements and prescription drugs, business is booming. It's a very

742
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 3: young industry. It is no surprise that not all these

743
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 3: claims up to scientific scrutiny.

744
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 4: Guys.

745
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 5: I have another good tagline for San Francisco. It's where

746
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: ideas go to kill us All.

747
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: I like it?

748
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 3: Sorry, yeah, San Francisco. Can you believe it was on purpose?

749
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 4: Things about it that are cool? Boy is it been overrun?

750
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 5: And boy is it this like it's this gold rush

751
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 5: on these kind of half baked, biotechy, implanty not you.

752
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: Know, AI kind of not fully thought out ideas. It's it,

753
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 4: can I.

754
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 2: I want to be real with you, guys. I've never

755
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: watched a documentary on San Francisco. I've never looked that

756
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 2: deep into I guess.

757
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 4: The vitory of it as a city, well, the.

758
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: Major movement out there as Silicon Valley, right, I think

759
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: of maybe maybe a little bit, but I can't recall

760
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: any of it. I need some new tropics, guys. But

761
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: it strikes me as a super interesting place because of

762
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: the climate there, because of the weather there, it's a

763
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: little bit colder, and especially when you're thinking about having

764
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: giant server arrays or something where you don't have to

765
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: spend so much money on all the cooling. I mean

766
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: you do, but not in the same way as if

767
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: you were in a giant you know, la great affection.

768
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: I don't think there's sweat in the air conditioning. Just yeah.

769
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 5: I think it's more about the marketplace of ideas for

770
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 5: whatever reason, they converged there at some point. You know,

771
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 5: because if you've ever watched that show Halt and Catch Fire,

772
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 5: which is excellent, sort of like a fictionalized version with

773
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 5: some real stuff thrown in alternate history, I guess there

774
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 5: was a Silicon Valley of Texas.

775
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 4: It was the Silicon Prairie.

776
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 5: And then there was the Silicon Valley, you know, out

777
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 5: in out west and and you know obviously how West one.

778
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 5: But I don't really know either, Matt, what led to

779
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 5: San Francisco be becoming such a ground zero for that.

780
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 5: Maybe you have to having to do with the program

781
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 5: at an institution. Then you think it'd be mit, you

782
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 5: think it'd be somewhere like Boston, which also is a

783
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 5: huge you know for that kind.

784
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 4: Of stuff with Boston dynamics and all of that.

785
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: I just need to learn more and I need a

786
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:05,919
Speaker 2: substance that will help me do.

787
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 3: It, Yes, or a substance that will help you feel

788
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: that you are doing better at the thing.

789
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: I'll take it.

790
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a literature review in Nutrients, which is a

791
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 3: great scholarly journal, and a literature review is just when

792
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: well educated or well read on experts look at all

793
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: the stuff and then say, what's the skinny. It's an

794
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 3: executive summary, right, which tech bros love and I do

795
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 3: want to say before we continue that I find Eric

796
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: Matzner quite impressive. I think his mind is in the

797
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: right place. I don't think he's trying to be a

798
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: con man. It's important to remember that. But in this

799
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 3: scholarly review in Nutrients, what they found is the evidence

800
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: for long term safety and effectiveness of many things called

801
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 3: new tropics science is just not there. It's not saying

802
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: they're bad for you, it's saying we don't know whether

803
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 3: they actually work. And this brings to mind the ever

804
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: present implications of the placebo effect. You haven't thought about

805
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: the implication placebo means placebo's means I will please. In

806
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 3: Latin drugs that purport to treat a condition. The story

807
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: of them is pretty interesting. The name comes from basically

808
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: hiring people to pretend to be sad at funerals, and

809
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: the mourners were fake, and the term then like it

810
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 3: made you feel that your loved one was actually loved

811
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 3: and was being grieved.

812
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: It makes you feel less weird about grieving openly.

813
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 3: Probably right now you are one of several what a

814
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 3: good person has passed, and this eventually came to be

815
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 3: applied to fake drugs.

816
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 4: Yeah.

817
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 5: And then there's the lesser known but equally and oppositely

818
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 5: fascinating no cebo effect, which is a situation where a

819
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 5: negative outcome happens because of belief that the drug or

820
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 5: intervention will cause the negative outcome.

821
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 4: Irrelevant, I think it's interesting. Just woted to throw it in.

822
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 2: Just read The Secret, you'll get all of this.

823
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 3: And if you haven't read The Secret, you're not thinking

824
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: in the right way to attract that book. It's a

825
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: secret just to know about it anyway, So yes, Secret,

826
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 3: the fight Club of metaphysics. Whatever. So I love your

827
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 3: pointing out no cibo effect. Check out our earlier episode.

828
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: Is the placebo effect getting stronger? What we know is

829
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 3: that physicians do use placebos, typically in the form of

830
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 3: vitamins that are not necessarily going to be bad for

831
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: you in moderate amounts.

832
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 2: And literally just sugar, right or just.

833
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, blue skypills, just sugar pills. We do know, going

834
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 3: back to the earlier port, that placebos acquired what we

835
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: would call a meta efficacy because in double blind studies

836
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 3: they are useful for proving whether or not an actual

837
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: drug works. Do we want to explain what the double

838
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: blind study is.

839
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 5: It's kind of like the yeah, like the pepsi challenge,

840
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 5: right basically, but give.

841
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 4: It to them with scientific terms.

842
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 2: Matt, Oh, well, yeah, you have a group of people

843
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: that you're going to be testing this new drug on.

844
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: You give half of them your actual drug, you give

845
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 2: the other half sugar pills, let's say, and you don't

846
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 2: tell anybody who's got the real drug. And then everybody

847
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: reports their findings how this drug is making them feel.

848
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 2: And you've got on your little secret list which which

849
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: of these folks actually took the drug and those are

850
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: the ones that you well, actually write it all down

851
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: and then you have to compare right well, and.

852
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 5: It's you know, obviously an important method, but It also

853
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 5: can suck because a lot of these things are clair

854
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 5: trials where the people that apply to be part of

855
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 5: the study really want the real drug, it's the one

856
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 5: that could maybe cure their cancer or whatever, but they

857
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 5: get the sugar pills, and that's that's the risk or

858
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 5: the you know, the roll of the dice there. It's

859
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 5: not inherently cruel, but the outcomes can be, you know,

860
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 5: not great.

861
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it depends what you're testing.

862
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: But the band say, has never been a study of individuals.

863
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: Fair enough, It's very true, and it's also been a

864
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 2: little cold, just in a way it has it has

865
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: to be. But the whole point is, in those double

866
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 2: blind tests, your substance has to beat that placebo effect,

867
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: to beat that sugar pill by.

868
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 5: An order of magnitude, right, I mean like it's like,

869
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 5: how do you even measure beating? I guess you're measuring

870
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 5: lots of different metrics, and and you're comparing them all,

871
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 5: and there's lots of different criteria for the comparison.

872
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 4: I'm sure.

873
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: And if it doesn't work out, just turn it into

874
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: aspartame and put it in the.

875
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 3: SODA's corn syrup. Had yeah, yeah.

876
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what if this engine oil is actually edible.

877
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: You know, we were doing this, we were doing this

878
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 3: research on this medication. Everybody got a boner, even the

879
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: placebo guys a priapism.

880
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: Wait what did you say?

881
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 4: You mean.

882
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: So we're gonna be billionaires? That is what you're saying.

883
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, And as many as one third of

884
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 3: all people respond favorably to placebos when they don't know

885
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: their placebos. And this proves to us most importantly that

886
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: the mind is a drug all its own again, one

887
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 3: of the first machines that seeks to actively improve itself.

888
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 3: So we see the shadows of limitless, we see the

889
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 3: shadows of flowers for Algernon. It is possible that people

890
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 3: may be spending money on the chemical equivalent of monkey shines,

891
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 3: but they feel different. They feel their memory is improving,

892
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 3: and perhaps through the act of practicing memory right, perhaps

893
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: through the cognitive exercise of using the mind, you are

894
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 3: in fact improving. But you didn't need the magic pill.

895
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 3: It's like that old story about the magic ballerina shoes.

896
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

897
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that was one of my favorites growing up.

898
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: All right, Actually I don't know that one.

899
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 4: I don't either. I'm joking.

900
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 3: Well, the idea is this kid gets magic shoes and

901
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 3: it turns out that the shoes weren't magic.

902
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that old chestnut.

903
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 2: Got it, got it.

904
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just saying, by simply repeating, repeatedly challenging the

905
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: brain toward the accomplishment of mental exercises like puzzles, you

906
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 3: improve your chances of avoiding certain types of cognitive decline.

907
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: So if you were part of a test, right, if

908
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 3: you're in a double blind study and you are taking

909
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 3: the placebo, but part of the study is asking you

910
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 3: to do puzzles, then by the nature of doing those puzzles,

911
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 3: your name benefit, get the benefit, or get some sort

912
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 3: of benefit.

913
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 5: Do you think that any of this applies to like

914
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 5: superstitious rituals that people do where they like, you know,

915
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 5: baseball players wear the same pair of socks because it

916
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 5: makes them believe that they're going to be.

917
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 4: Better and therefore they are better.

918
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean we need more science on it.

919
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 4: This is a science on that.

920
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 3: It's the pretty early stuff.

921
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

922
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: To be clear, I'm not saying we need to smell

923
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: more baseball player socks.

924
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 4: Science.

925
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: That up science science. Oh this is for science, baby.

926
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: But but we we do see certain substances do appear

927
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 3: to make improvements in the way brains communicate, retaining, and

928
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 3: synthesize information. However, we do not have a silver bullet

929
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: for the humans like we don't We don't know what

930
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 3: the ideal dosage is to mitigate dementia. We don't know.

931
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 3: We don't know all the variables that are included in

932
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 3: each little little recipe that is a human mind. It

933
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 3: shows us there's an opportunity for grifters, but it shows

934
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 3: us I think, pretty exciting and maybe maybe frightening horizon

935
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 3: of possibility. Also, you know, it's like our earlier conversation

936
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: about virtual reality. Humans are attempting to improve something that

937
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 3: they don't fully understand from the beginning.

938
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 5: Exactly with the eyes stuff too, I mean, you know,

939
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 5: and it's these young money obsessed whipper snappers in Silicon

940
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 5: Valley that are the ones, you know, pushing that agenda

941
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 5: on the rest of the world and like pushing that

942
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 5: technology out there while fully acknowledging often that they don't

943
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 5: understand where it's going, and having people encouraging them, counseling them, no,

944
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 5: maybe pull back a little bit, not jump right down

945
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 5: this rabbit hole yet and that's okay, Well we'll deal

946
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 5: with the outcome later. You know, let's push it, kick

947
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 5: the can down the road. It's another example of that.

948
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 2: Let's talk about one particular substance that was I think

949
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 2: interesting to all of us, medophanol. I think is how

950
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 2: you say it. This is this is the one where well,

951
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: let's say the United States military and several other countries'

952
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: militaries were using amphetamines to you know, what do they

953
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: call them go pills and then the sleep. It was

954
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: like uppers and downers. So when you're we talked about

955
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: this before in one of our episodes where we talked

956
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: about drugs and war. Amphetamines back in the day were

957
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: to get you up when it was time to be

958
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 2: on duty or be you know, in battle or something

959
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: like that. Then you take the essentially a sleeping pill

960
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: or a sedative to get you that downtime and sleep

961
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: you need if you've only got let's say four hours

962
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: six hours to be down before you have to go

963
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 2: and do all that stuff again, or if you're a

964
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 2: fighter pilot or flying a bomb plane, you know, halfway

965
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: across the world to go drop bombs on somebody. They

966
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,479
Speaker 2: were using these drugs like amphetamines and sedatives. Let's say

967
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: medophinil came in, and that was supposed to be the

968
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 2: brand new thing that is not as addictive as an

969
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: amphetamine would be, right, well, and it's but I mean

970
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: theoretically it's supposed to be safer, and that's why it

971
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: was developed.

972
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, like oxycotton.

973
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 5: Uh, yes, say it's it's fine, it's not addictive, it's better,

974
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: it's good, go ahead.

975
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 2: But it was a drug to treat other things. So

976
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: we ben you you mentioned in the this I think

977
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: we did. We talk about it in this episode already

978
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: where it was for narcolepsy or it was one of

979
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: those drugs that was to treat exactly.

980
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 5: Uh.

981
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: But then this thing took on a life of its

982
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 2: own as basically the new amphetamine that militaries and only

983
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: a few select militaries in countries still approve it and

984
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: its use. But it's still there and pilots still use it,

985
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 2: and it's still it's it's tried and tested basically in

986
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 2: the minds of people who control a bunch of other

987
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 2: human beings that are in militaries. What do you guys

988
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 2: think about stuff like that where it's a drug that

989
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: does seem to have positive effects. It does have negative.

990
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 3: Effects, limited positive effects.

991
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 4: It's a balancing act, as with anything.

992
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 5: And to your point about the go pills up or

993
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 5: downer thing, all of that still doesn't replace sleep, does it.

994
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 5: It makes you go, go go when you're up and maximize,

995
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 5: but then you're jacked up at the end of the

996
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 5: day still because you've taken all these you know, goofballs

997
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 5: that you got to take something to be able to

998
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 5: get down, you know, and you're you're essentially supplementing and

999
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 5: replacing systems that already exist within you, and you're kind

1000
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 5: of causing your your whole you know, mechanics of your

1001
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 5: brain to go haywire.

1002
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 2: But if you're a company that can synthesize a substance

1003
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 2: like this and then package it, give it a cool name,

1004
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: give it some cool advertising, then you are literally creating

1005
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 2: a billion dollar or billions dollar product.

1006
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 4: Pressing money my friend.

1007
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: Well, and you can just really see the as we

1008
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: talk about a ton on this show, the incentive for

1009
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 2: profit that exists here because it is fairly easy to

1010
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: say whatever you want if you're going the supplement route

1011
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 2: right and make a magic substance that's going to let

1012
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 2: everybody who sees your website or your YouTube ad or

1013
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 2: here's Alex Jones talk about you, or all the one

1014
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 2: the way, all of these different new tropics have been

1015
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 2: introduced to the world over the past what twenty years,

1016
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems like there's a ton of

1017
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 2: room for abuse.

1018
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 3: Agreed. Here's the other question. If you could take a

1019
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 3: pill every day of your life and in doing so

1020
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 3: save yourself from native decline, would you do it?

1021
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 4: I think that's a yes.

1022
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 5: Uh, more more so than the astrophysics question you posited

1023
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,959
Speaker 5: at the beginning of the episode. I mean, that's something

1024
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 5: anyone could get behind. But then does is that the

1025
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 5: fountain of youth?

1026
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 3: Though?

1027
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 4: Is that living forever or is it just going to.

1028
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 5: Keep you from dying, you know, not knowing what the

1029
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 5: hell's going on because you've got dementia or like some extreme,

1030
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,439
Speaker 5: you know, version of mental decline. I think anybody would

1031
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 5: want that for their loved ones. But then again, it

1032
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 5: becomes a matter of who gets it first and who

1033
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 5: stockpiles it. And if everyone gets it and everyone's living longer,

1034
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 5: maybe it's not going to cause a burden on you know, resources.

1035
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 5: There's all kinds of questions about this kind of stuff.

1036
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 3: I don't know to Another question, especially in that maybe

1037
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: this is the future episode the idea of military weaponization

1038
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: of drugs. We've talked about it in the past and

1039
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 3: previous episodes. Question for the group of those of us

1040
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 3: playing a little at home as well, how often do

1041
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 3: you think that military medical professionals have been out of

1042
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: supplies and given someone a placebo?

1043
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 4: That's an interesting question. I have no idea.

1044
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 3: If you know they're gonna die and the actual drugs.

1045
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 4: I see what you're saying. Yes, that's a good point.

1046
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, like why waste a morphine serrand if if you're

1047
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 5: if you know.

1048
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 4: That's rough because they're part of that.

1049
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 5: All these even in films, seems to be an act

1050
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 5: of humanity, you know, to to let your fellow man

1051
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 5: down easy, to let you know and not suffer in

1052
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 5: that final agonizing moment.

1053
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: But in the case of these drugs, it's more about

1054
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: making sure that individual is alert enough to know where

1055
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: fire is coming from.

1056
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 3: Right. You know, you're talking about raising awareness for limited time,

1057
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 3: the cost benefit ratio being that they the individual under

1058
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 3: the influence of those things will physiologically pay for it

1059
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 3: later if not cognitively. Yeah, and that still happens. That's

1060
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 3: a very good point. I'm glad you made it. The

1061
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 3: I think the most maddening question if you discovered something

1062
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 3: that could make any old Charlie Gordon Flowers from Algernon

1063
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 3: type into a Nikola Tesla, you know, even if just

1064
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 3: for a limited amount of time, even if it absolutely

1065
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 3: wrecked their brain within, you know, like over the long term,

1066
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 3: would you be allowed to propagate this to the public.

1067
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 3: Would you be allowed by the powers that be to

1068
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 3: put a genius drug out there knowing that it could

1069
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 3: up end civilization? It is just possible. As something like

1070
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 3: this exists. They're on the bleeding edge of science.

1071
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: And if you want to do your own research, there's

1072
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 2: a great place to start. Definitely not the end all,

1073
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: be all location, but if you head on over to

1074
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 2: the New Tropics subreddit that's reddit dot com slash r

1075
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 2: slashno t R O p I c S, they've got

1076
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 2: a beginner's guide that lists out most of the known

1077
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: new tropics that are out there. It's not all of them,

1078
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: but it talks about stacking. As we mentioned this episode,

1079
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 2: which wants to try. We do not recommend anyone take

1080
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 2: drugs ever, but if you are interested in this stuff,

1081
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 2: especially the supplement side, that's a good place to begin

1082
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: your search.

1083
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 4: Agreed.

1084
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 3: And while you are online, we would love to hear

1085
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 3: your experiences. Full disclosure, Folks, Paul, Matt Nolan and I

1086
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 3: may have differing personal experiences with this kind of let's

1087
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 3: call it gray market field, but we do want to

1088
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 3: end with this. We are not medical professionals. As Matt said,

1089
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 3: do your own research. Your brain for now is your own.

1090
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 3: In the meantime, while you are online, we would love

1091
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 3: to hear from you. We would love your thoughts in

1092
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 3: lieu of beaming them directly to us. Now, I'm try

1093
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 3: transcreenally to TCDs. I am a huge fan of that

1094
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 3: as well as TMS. I love tgif in lieu of that,

1095
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: find us online while people still use their hands to type, you.

1096
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 5: Can find it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we

1097
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 5: exist on Facebook or we have our Facebook group.

1098
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.

1099
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 5: On YouTube, we've got videos coming at you every single week,

1100
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 5: and on axfka, Twitter, on Instagram and TikTok. You might

1101
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 5: ask what are we, Well, we are conspiracy Stuff show mmmm.

1102
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: We have a phone number that is functioning and you

1103
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 2: can call right now. Try to do it when it's

1104
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,439
Speaker 2: a little quiet around, not in a car that's very

1105
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 2: loud that causes feedback and other problems. Actually, a car

1106
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: doesn't cause feedback. That'd be another audio issue. It just

1107
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 2: causes a lot of noise. Uh call one eight three

1108
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: three st d w y t K. When you call,

1109
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname that we'll remember and put

1110
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: in our system. You've got three minutes say whatever you like.

1111
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 3: Do.

1112
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: Please let us know if we can use your name

1113
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 2: and message on one of our listener mail episodes. If

1114
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: you've got more to say, they can fit in that

1115
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 2: three minutes one. Instead, send us a good old fashion email.

1116
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 2: We are the.

1117
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 3: Entities that read every letter we get. Be well aware

1118
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 3: sometimes avoid writes back conspiracy At iHeartRadio dot com.

1119
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1120
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1121
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.