1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hi, It's Sarah Holder, host of Big Take Today. We're 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: bringing you a story that's the result of a year 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: long investigation carried out by my colleague Juan ha It's 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: a story about a Libyan oil tanker named the Queen Majada, 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: a delivery that doesn't go as expected, and an investigation 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: that has global implications. 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: So the story really starts on September eighth. 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: September eighth, twenty twenty two. The Queen Madata is docked 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: in the port of Benghazi, where it's spent the last 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: few days being loaded up with fuel. 11 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 2: The captain himself has just been hired by the operator 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: just a few months ago, and a lot of the 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: crew are also new as well. What's interesting is that 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: where they're going is Albania, and they actually have been 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: making deliveries to Albania already. They've had two successful deliveries, 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: you know, and they're saying, this is a third delivery 17 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: to Albania. It's to the same buyer, with the same paperwork. 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: We shouldn't have any problems. 19 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: The ship leaves Libya and spends the next four days 20 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: crossing the Mediterranean to get to Europe. 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: It gets into Albania in waters close to the port 22 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 2: of Jurists and that's when the captain says, everything becomes 23 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: a big surprise. 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,919 Speaker 1: So what happens when the ship enters Albanian waters? 25 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 2: So the ship stops in Albanian waters near Duris Port 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: and they're waiting for instructions to discharge. The captain says 27 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: he notices a small vessel come toward the Queen Majeda. 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: It turns out the small vessel is actually an Albanian 29 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: Coast Guard patrol boat and an officer of the Coast 30 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: Guard officer comes on board. The captain of the Queen 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: of Jeda says, you know, I didn't think anything was wrong. 32 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: I served him tea as he looked through the paperwork, 33 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: and he even said, you know, the officer told me, oh, 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: don't worry, this is routine, nothing, nothing big. But then 35 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: about an hour later, the captain sees this bigger Coast 36 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: Guard ship come alongside the Queen Majeda, and that's what 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: he knows. Something was very wrong. 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: So what did the bigger Coastguard ship have to say? 39 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: The bigger Coast Guard ship then comes alongside the Queen 40 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: of Jeda and the investigators jump on board. And they 41 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: find a ship that's been loaded with fuel to the max. Right, 42 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: they found that the ship's ballast tank, which is normally 43 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: filled with water to keep it stable, has been loaded 44 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: with thousands of leaders of fuel. And the ship is 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: carrying paperwork that says it was carrying fuel from Libya 46 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: from a Libyan authority called the break Up Petroleum Marketing 47 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: Company that's an arm of the country's state owned National 48 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: Oil Corporation. But the problem is that that paperwork, as 49 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: our reporting showed, is fake. 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: The arrest of the Queen Magata for alleged fuel smuggling 51 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: would open so many questions. 52 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: For one, how big was this problem, Where was a 53 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: fuel coming from? What got it there? It was really a. 54 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: Mystery, a mystery that would bring one around the world 55 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: from her home base in Hong Kong to Albania and Tunisia. 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: And it would follow how the capture of a Libyan 57 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: tanker in albai Waters opened a window on a five 58 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: billion dollar trade in smuggled fuel, much of it coming 59 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: from Russia around sanctions and into Europe. I'm Sarah Holder, 60 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: and this is big take from Bloomberg News. Before we 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: get into the rest of the story, it's helpful to 62 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: start with a primer on oil and gas in Libya. 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: So Libya is home to Africa's biggest reserve of oil, 64 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: So they've got all of this unprocessed crude that can 65 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: generate billions of dollars. And in fact, the oil industry 66 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: is the main revenue generator for Libya, and it's a 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: big oil contributor to the region of course to the 68 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: global market as well. 69 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: Even though Libya has these huge oil reserves, what it 70 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: doesn't have is the capacity to refine it all and 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: turn it into products like gas and diesel for cars, 72 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: trucks and boats. So for decades the country has largely 73 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: sold its crude oil abroad and used the proceeds to 74 00:03:58,160 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: import refined fuel. 75 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: It's interesting in Libya is that you know, since Momarket 76 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Kadaffi took over Libya in nineteen sixty nine after a 77 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: coup in which he deposed the king, there was a 78 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: period of turbulence and violence and political instability, and there 79 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: was a lot of repression and a lot of control. 80 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: The population was very unhappy, and as a way to 81 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: make the populace more happy and less discontent, he then 82 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: of course offered all of these subsidies, including energy subsidies 83 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: and food subsidies, those subsidies that happened in the nineteen seventies, 84 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: and those subsidies are still in place today. 85 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: And how cheap is the gas in Libya right now? 86 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: Gasoline is so cheap in Libya that it actually is 87 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: cheaper than water. So you know, a leader of fuel 88 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: is actually cheaper than a leader of water. I mean, 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: that's that's how crazy it is. And in the end 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: they're paying basically pennies. It's essentially three cents for a 91 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: leader fuel if you look at, of course the neighbors 92 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: into Europe. I mean in Europe people are paying two 93 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: dollars a lead at the pumps. Obviously there's a big 94 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: price differential there. And because of that, it's a market 95 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: that's also ripe for fuel smuggling as well. 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Through her reporting, Lan says she learned that fuel smuggling 97 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: has been going on for decades in Libya, but in 98 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one the government there started a program that 99 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: has made the problem worse. 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty one, the government stalls on improving 101 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: a national budget and there isn't money allocated for the 102 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: national oil Corporation to import fuel for the country. So 103 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 2: the then chairman of the National Oil Company, Mustafa Snala, 104 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: comes up with a program. It's essentially a crude for 105 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: fuel swap program in which Libya's unprocessed crude oil is 106 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: sold to these foreign energy companies and it's exchange for 107 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: refined fuel. So the whole point of that program was 108 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: to give the National Oil Corporation the ability to import 109 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: fuel without having to use hard current see cash to 110 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 2: pay for it, and the foreign energy companies at some 111 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: point would of course settle their bill if they owed 112 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: money in that transaction. So what we've been told, you 113 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: know the swap program, which by the way, is legal, right, 114 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: there's nothing illegal about it, and it is used in 115 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: other countries. What's interesting about the swap program is it 116 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: does make it easier in Libya to procure fuel without cash, 117 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: but it also evades, you know, the scrutiny of the 118 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: Central Bank and other government institutions. 119 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: Wansa's local and foreign officials have expressed a lot of 120 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: concern over the program. One of them was college chech Sheek, 121 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: the head of the Libyan Audit Bureau. 122 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: He was one of the few officials who actually welcomed 123 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: us and really wanted to talk about fuel smuggling. Though 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: everyone on the ground knows that fuel smuggling is a 125 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: huge problem, no one really wants to talk about it 126 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: and really be accountable for it. So College Checkshek actually 127 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: met us in Tunisia. He flew in with three assistants 128 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: and he had all this paperwork and he really wanted 129 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: to share the problem of fuel smuggling in Libya. And 130 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 2: I think for him, he says that he really wants 131 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: it to stop because he sees it as a huge 132 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: sap on Libyan's resources. So sex Shek told us that 133 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: as much as forty percent of fuel in the subsidy 134 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: program is being smuggled, and you know, by those calculations, 135 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: that's about five billion dollars in twenty twenty two. I mean, 136 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: that's a huge, huge number for country like Libya. 137 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: One, says Schechhek pointed to the implementation of the CRUD 138 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: for Fuel swap program as a catalyst that's taken the 139 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: country's fuel importing to a new level. 140 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: Once the crewed first swap program starts in twenty twenty one, 141 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: the fuel subsidy program just explodes and the audit Bureau 142 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: says that the fuel program jumped by more than seventy 143 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: percent to the equivalent of twelve point eight billion dollars 144 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two. That's sixty two billion dinars. That's 145 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: a huge jump from twenty twenty one, and you know, 146 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: to put it in perspective, that's almost half the national budget. 147 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: This has gone on at a time when the World 148 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: Bank says Libya's economy has actually contracted. So if the 149 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: economy wasn't growing and that fuel wasn't being burned inside 150 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: the country, why was the country importing so much more 151 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: fuel and where was it going? That's after the break, 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: We're back before the break. Wanha was telling us about 153 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: her conversation with the head of the Libyan Audit Bureau 154 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: and how long time fuel subsidies and the introduction of 155 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: a crude for fuel swap program have made fuel much 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: much cheaper in Libya than in nearby countries. 157 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: So fuel smuggling has been an entrenched problem in Libya. 158 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: In previous years, there was a lot of fuel that 159 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: was being smuggled inland in trucks to the neighboring countries. 160 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: There was a period of time where there was also 161 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: fuel being smuggled by sea. 162 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: And then in February of twenty twenty two, Russia invades Ukraine. 163 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: And it causes this huge shift in the global market 164 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 2: for oil and refined fuel products. Right Western countries of 165 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: course respond by imposing sanctions on Russian oil and fuel 166 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: products because they want to thwart Moscow's ability to raise 167 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: funds for the war. The problem for Russia, of course, 168 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: is that it's now lost access to the United Nations 169 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: countries and the EU had been the biggest market for 170 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: Russia's hydrocarbons. So now it's having to basically look elsewhere 171 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: to sell its oil and fuel products. So it's looking 172 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: to the Middle East, it's looking to Asia. 173 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: And Russia found an interested buyer in Libya. 174 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: Because Libya doesn't have any sanctions against Russian oil or 175 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: fuel products, and so there's no reason why Russian oil 176 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: and fuel cannot come to. 177 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: Libya, and it really has come to Libya. Since the 178 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: invasion of Ukraine, Russian fuel exports have served more than tenfold. 179 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: I mean it's big numbers. I mean it's two point 180 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 2: five million tons in twenty twenty three from just two 181 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand tons the previous year, and that 182 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: makes Russia now that top exporter of all refined petroleum 183 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: products to Libya, and it took edged out Greece and 184 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 2: it counts for about twenty eight percent of Libya's total supply. 185 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: What's really startling is that that number was actually just 186 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: four percent in twenty twenty one. What we're finding out 187 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: is that the oil and fuel that's coming from Russia 188 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 2: doesn't stop there in Libya. We also know from the 189 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: paperwork that Libya then is exporting diesel gas, oil gasoline 190 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: two countries in Europe that have imposed sanctions on Russian fuel, 191 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: countries like Spain and Italy, France, Belgium, these are all 192 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: places that don't accept Russian fuel Russian oil, but because 193 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: it's coming from Libya, it's finding a loophole to get 194 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: into those countries. 195 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: And it's moving on ships, ships like the Queen Majata. 196 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: After the Queen Megata was detained in September twenty twenty two, 197 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: the crew spent six months in an Albanian jail and 198 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: they've since been on house arrest on the ship. 199 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: The crew this week actually were charged with trading and 200 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: transporting smuggled goods, and the prosecutors there asked for a 201 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 2: five year prison sentence. 202 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: And what about the owner of the ship. Has he 203 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: been charged with anything. 204 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: At this point Nuri Eldawadi, the Libyan businessman who owns 205 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: the ship, has not been charged. 206 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: So how is the head of the National Oil Corporation 207 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: responding to the investigation. 208 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: So Farhat Bengdara is the chairman of the National Oil 209 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: Corporation and he said, you know an email to me 210 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: that fuel smuggling is a huge problem, but that he 211 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,719 Speaker 2: couldn't provide an estimate for the scale or put a 212 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 2: rough dollar amount to what's being smuggled. You've also got 213 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: the prime minister, Prime Minister de Beta in Libya saying 214 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: that he his administration really wants to look at lifting 215 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: and ending the fuel subsidies. And he's right now pulling 216 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: Libyans on a proposal that would end the subsidy program 217 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: and instead give Libyans a lump sum amount or cupon 218 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: of some sort that they can use to buy fuel. 219 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: So the question is, how is that going to resolve itself? 220 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: Is their political will to really end the subsidy program? 221 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: And how would you meet legitimate need of poor people 222 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: in Libya who do need access to cheaper fuel if 223 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: you end the subsidy program. It's a hard, difficult problem, 224 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: and our sources say it's probably not likely going to 225 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: be resolved anytime soon. 226 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm 227 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: Sarah Holder. This episode was produced by David Fox. It 228 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: was edited by Nicole Beemsterbor and Robert Friedman. It was 229 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: mixed by Alex Sugiura and Blake Maples. It was fact 230 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: checked by Alex Sugiura. Our senior producers are Naomi Shaven 231 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: and Jilda de Carly. We get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso. 232 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: Nicold beamster Borg is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is 233 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. We'll be 234 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: back tomorrow.