WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 081421 Ramses Ja & Q Ward 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.800 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. Iamy host rams 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.920 this Jah. Most people call me q ward. 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:07.560 But it's really just because they don't feel like saying 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:12.440 Quinn like that. That special pronunciation of that oh gives 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:14.240 people a lot of pause and they end up calling 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.119 me quintin and that's not actually my name, So we 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:17.720 just go with Q. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:19.960 But I only I won't get into that. Yes, indeed, 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.880 we're gonna call you Q around here because we'd like 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:28.320 to do things the right way. Yeah, another episode for 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.800 you lined up. We're gonna talk about what we can 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.760 talk about today, the goings on in black America. Unfortunately, 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.519 we won't be able to hit everything. We already know 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.080 that because it's been a busy week. Have you been 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.400 keeping track of every thank you? I've been trying my best. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:49.960 We we often talk to each other about the never 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.519 ending kind of flood of topics and content that we 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.040 have for our show, and this week, like every other 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.200 one before, it did not let us down. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.000 Well, we do have a few reasons for you to 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:06.039 stick around. We are going to be talking about the 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.319 incident in Michigan where a black real estate agent was 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:15.440 showing a house to some potential home buyers and you know, 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.240 the police surrounded gun. You're on what everybody can cuffs, 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.360 that sort of thing. So we're going to get into that. Also, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.679 we're going to talk about an instance in Ohio where 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.520 a court sentenced two different women, one black, one white, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.720 to two very different sentences for the same crime. More 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:33.080 or less. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.800 We'll break that down for a similar crimes. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.720 One was very much worse. But you know, you know 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.320 how that story goes. We're going to get into it 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.880 into more detail. And we can't wait to talk about 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.800 the Uncle tom Way Black History fact with DJ Swirrel. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.360 We missed out on that last week, so we're going 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.760 to do it this week. But first let's start to 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:56.760 show off the way we like to that is with 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.960 some ebony excellence. Is that all right with you? 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:01.800 Absolutely? 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.040 All I do is win, win, no matter what. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:05.720 Okay. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.520 So you know, out of all the Ebony excellence that 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.760 we've done that we've celebrated, we never talked about Beyonce 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.720 and jay Z. That seems impossible, yeah, man, but you 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.119 know this week, you know they've they've made it into 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.480 headlines and so we're gonna we're gonna celebrate that Ebony 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:30.040 excellence as it turns out, Beyonce revealed to Harper's Bizarre 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.399 magazine right she was actually on the cover for next month. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.960 She revealed that her and jay Z are the new 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.320 faces of Tiffany and Co. For those that are not 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.960 familiar or not into jewelry or whatever, Tiffany and Co. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.280 Is a very high very much a high end jewelry 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.320 company and very well known around the world. They advertise 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.840 in magazines like Harper's Bazaar. This all this stuff is 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.600 all very fancy. For me, I'm not really into very 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.120 high brow. Yeah yeah, but for you know this to 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.000 be a black woman as the face of this company, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:05.720 because this is an old company. It's companies from the 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.880 early nineteen hundreds, I believe, is when they're the name changed. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:11.799 And that's also part of the reason why the name 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.560 Tiffany ended up becoming popular in the eighties. Tiffany and Co. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.200 Had their role in that very early on in you know, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.720 the nineteen hundreds. But I digress. Yeah, jay Z and 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.600 Beyonce are going to be the faces of that company. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.320 So that feels like an accomplishment. And of course they 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.600 just kind of embody ebony excellence. They don't really I mean, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.960 we could do a whole show on Beyonce and jay 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.720 Z and how you know they've managed to rise above 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.760 that crabs in the bucket mentality that really persists in 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.800 the black community in some areas, and you know, really 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.760 lean into their own individuality and I really love that. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:52.600 But for now, we're just going to give them kudos 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.520 for making I see the number eighteen billion dollars here, 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.080 so making a move with a company that's where the 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.200 eighteen billion dollars. So again, I. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.920 Wish we could queue Shining from DJ Keller right now 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.120 featuring Hey, you know what, that'd be a great appropriate there. 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.760 But moving on, I think it's time for us to 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:18.920 talk about your home state. There's a city there called 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.599 Wyoming in Michis. How about that. Didn't know that, but 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.880 I'll read a bit. This comes from CBS News. So 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.680 the headline reads, black real estate agent and his clients 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:37.719 handcuffed at house viewing after neighbor wrongly reported break in Okay. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.320 So it says body camera footage on the August first 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.919 incident shows police arriving at the home and telling the 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.040 men to exit single file with their hands in the air. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.400 The real estate agent, his client, and his client's son 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.039 all exit the house individually and walk across the lawn 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.760 before they are handcuffed by officers. The footage captures the agent, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.880 Eric Brown, telling the officers that he's a realtor with 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.960 Keller William's Realty. The officers told Brown the house had 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.000 recently been broken into, and a neighbor called police because 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.000 they believe the men were breaking in. After Brown shows 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.960 the officers his realtor's license and the key to the home, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.320 the officers removed the men's handcuffs and release them. Q. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.560 You're from the d You're from the motor I'm I'm. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.760 I know that Detroit is probably very different from Wyoming, Michigan, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.359 but I've always known Detroit to be a place that 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.640 was very Maybe afrocentric is a little too strong, but 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:39.640 you know, black people don't have to be as concerned 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.880 as perhaps in like the Deep South. You know, there's 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.080 a black community established there and people kind of maybe 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.200 not get along better, but they're understand that they're sharing 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.240 this environment with folks who don't look like them. So 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:55.080 how does this hit you? 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.839 So it's a lot different now when I was growing up, 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:04.120 when I was going to school, I am all of 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.440 my classmates from pre K to my senior year of 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.359 high school were black, like every one of them. And 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.479 I don't just mean sitting in the classroom with me. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.120 I mean every person that I would see in the 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:23.720 hallway was black. The concentration of uh black people that 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.160 live in Detroit now is not as high as it 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.920 was when I was a kid, but it's still higher 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.600 than the medium like it's it's it's a it's a 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.800 black city, not in the you know, high ninety percent 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.200 like it was when I was younger, but still a 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.680 place where black people tend to feel more comfortable because 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.960 there are a lot of other black people there. Wyoming, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.240 Michigan is not Detroit, and you know, shouts out to 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.839 the mitt in my home state. But no, your your 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.560 assumptions about Detroit are correct. You know, you know, growing up, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.760 you didn't have the high racial tension like you said 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.960 that you would imagine in places like the Deep South, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:10.680 because your neighbors, your teachers, your police officers or your fireman, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.800 your doctor, we're all black people. Your dentists, we're all 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.119 black people. So yes, you are correct on those points. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:28.360 Well, the thing that troubles me a bit is, you know, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.480 for this type of this situation actually reminds me of 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.720 I can't want to make sure I remember his name. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:51.760 It might be Michael Brown, but in any event, it 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.520 reminds me of a story that happened. It couldn't have 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.720 been Michael Brown. Who was it. Oh? It always drives 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.360 me crazy because I have to remember these names of 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.800 people that I've never met, and the story is often 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.320 very similar. Anyway, there's a story. 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:05.560 Yeah. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.880 The trouble with the trouble with remembering the names is 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.000 not because you haven't met these people. It's that there's 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.480 too many names that too, we have too many stories, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:17.080 too many examples to hold proper inventory of all of 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.840 these people that are being slain and treated unjustly just 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:20.880 because they look like you. 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:25.840 Absolutely, absolutely, But the story will sound familiar. And if 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.600 the name comes to you, please let me know. So 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.160 there's a young man. He's jogging through a neighborhood. He 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:36.000 ends up exploring an abandoned house, you know, just because 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.360 it appears to be abandoned actually was a construction site. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.720 He walks into the house, some people pull up in 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:48.360 a pickup truck. They start yelling at him to leave 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.680 the house. He starts walking away, or whatever. They end 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:52.120 up shooting him in the street and he dies there. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.520 It's all on video. Aubrey is a mad Aubrey. That's it. 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:02.120 Mike Brown was Ferguson right, but a mode Aubrey. It 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.200 reminds me of that story because again, a black person 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.320 in the house. And I mentioned before on the show, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.840 and I've had this in I've mentioned this in certain 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.240 conversations where people say, you know, if the activity looks suspicious, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:19.600 then people have a right to investigate, right, which, if 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.080 left on its own, seems to be a very sensible 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.600 argument to make. You know, hey, I don't know these people. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.240 They're in this property. You know, the property's abandoned, and 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.439 it feels a little bit funny. But I think the 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:39.079 question I introduced into the narrative oftentimes is why does 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.000 it feel funny? Why does it feel like it shouldn't 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:48.000 be happening? Because if you swap out a just to 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.760 pick a number, twenty one year old black male for 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:59.080 a twenty one year old white female, the entire tone 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.200 of this person's argument changes. Well, of course you don't 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.240 call the police on that sort of a person. Well, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.200 why not, is it because that type of person doesn't steal. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.960 And now are we dealing with your prejudices because your 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.120 assumption is that this person, because of the color of 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.360 their skin, is in this house stealing. Could they not 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.560 be exploring the property the same way that the white 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.959 woman in your imagination does, you know, And this has 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.200 always been a very personal thing to me, because once 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.600 upon a time I built a house. You know, I 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.760 saved all my little pennies working at my little radio station, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.960 and I built a house for my family. And while 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.880 that house was being built, I was so inspired and 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.480 so excited and energized by that that I would often 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.600 go and visit and I would sit on the land 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.160 and I would just be in my home, my future home, 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.480 but I would be on my land that I purchased, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.960 you know, I would be there and just watch the 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:00.760 development of my property. Now where I my house was built, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:02.760 it was way on the outskirts of town, so there 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.160 wasn't a lot of folks, you know, paying attention. You know, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.680 every house was being built, you know, and no one 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.840 drives all the way out there to steal nothing, I 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.080 mean house roof tiles or whatever. You know, it didn't 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.480 really make sense, but I remember being in that space, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.000 being inspired and fascinated by the build process. I'm not 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.520 saying this is what was going through on Od Aubrey's 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.760 head or anything like that, but I do recognize that 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.800 when you're able to see something that you don't get 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.480 to see every day, it might be a little interesting, 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.360 like a house as it's being built, Like what goes 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.120 inside of a wall? How does this work? I've never 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.079 you know, because normally most of us are accustomed to 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.760 seeing whatever. So this is me perhaps giving a mod 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.640 the benefit of the doubt. He obviously is no longer 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:45.320 alive to tell his own version of the story. But 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.880 this is the story I believe needs to be told 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:58.200 alongside that question, which is the same preconception show up 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.200 in your mind when the person who's jogging and visiting 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.000 this house as it's being built is a white female, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.280 blond haired, twenty one year old you know whatever. So 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:14.360 having been on a construction site before, having been being 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.079 fascinated by the amount of dry wall that it takes 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.160 to outfit a house, and the amount of lumber and 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:26.400 all these sorts of things, I can easily see myself 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.480 in that situation. I can easily imagine someone calling the 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.200 police and me losing my life because or calling whatever 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.760 authorities they deem appropriate, and me losing my life because 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.360 I was curious, right, the same as this twenty six 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.560 year old white or twenty one year old white female, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:47.600 as we imagine, but the tone is different because you know, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.720 I'm black, I'm ods black, and these realtors in this 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.719 story are black. Right, then we have to take into 0:12:54.760 --> 0:13:00.400 account the police's response. Do the police show up guns drawn, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.199 with their weapons trained on these human beings if they 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.679 are white, we'll call them sixty five year old. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.120 No, don't call them sixty five. The age of these 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.080 people they swap out that they're white, don't. You don't 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.280 have to make them old white people just white. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:23.360 I recognize that sometimes age factors into it, because you know, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:30.120 older black folks don't seem to get as much in 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:36.600 the way of the the stereotypes. You know. I mean 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.959 they do, of course, but I mean there's probably an 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:43.240 extra ten percent that's added on when you're younger, especially 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.600 a male, right, you know, just there's these these criminal 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.160 things that are associated with you based on your age 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.880 and based on your sex, that are that are just 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.000 beyond your race by itself. 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.560 But in order for a person's implicit biases to switch 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.040 the people in the story. And in our example of 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.760 our example of being pulled over in the Porsche and 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.920 the example of this realtor showing this house, the people 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.440 were just white, but they don't have to be exactly 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.000 the same. But I'm just saying, if the people were 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.120 just white, it would be different. We don't have to 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.480 age them to make them more innocent and more sweet, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.880 very good two people our age driving that Porsche. The 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.200 response is different if they're white entirely. 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:32.080 And so if you imagine that this realtor and the 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:39.600 gentleman who was viewing the house and his child were white, 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.000 do the police show up, guns drawn? Do the police 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.200 even get called in the first place? And I think 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.600 that it's there that we find that sort of Karen 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.200 and I think the other word when it's a male 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:58.480 is a Kevin, but that Karen and Kevin behavior where 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:03.840 anything black is criminal, anything white, even if I'm not 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.880 familiar with this person with this face, if it's white, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:11.280 it's right. And if it's black attack, I just coined 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.400 that I want my royalties. But I think that it's 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.240 in that space where we can really do a lot. 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:19.920 Of work. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.120 With ourselves, you know, and and you know, I'm talking 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.560 about allies of black people and brown people and Native 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.640 people and people that are typically associated with, you know, 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:41.200 a more negative stereotypes, because once someone had if if 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:46.280 a Karen starts crying, you know, then the ready assumption 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.840 is that she has been wronged and that she needs 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.760 to be made whole right, and and it's very much 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.520 unfair to people who have not wronged her, who happen 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.680 to be nearby and maybe are at odds with her 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.280 or him if it's a Kevin and you know, you 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:11.320 start off that with a disadvantage. What happens is, you know, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.680 we saw a couple of weeks ago in a jewelry 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:17.400 store or sorry, a makeup store where a woman was 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.000 clearly wrong, a white woman clearly wrong and mistreating a 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.920 black woman in the store, and she didn't like the 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.000 idea of being filmed, so she started crying as she 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.160 was throwing her temper tantrum. She started crying while she's 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.680 throwing the tantrum, and then immediately everyone started to look 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.240 at her as though she had been wronged, even though 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.000 it was clearly on video that she was the one 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.120 doing the wrong and they were saying no, get out 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.520 of here, stop filming her, blah blah blah, this sort 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:51.680 of behavior, and that feels very unfair. You know, there's 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.320 this narrative that exists in the black community that says 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.680 that you have to be twice as good to be 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.960 to be to make it half as far, or something 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.320 like that. You know, there's different ways of saying that 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:11.800 same expressing that same concept. And I think that if 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.679 you take that the premise and you apply it to 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.880 matters of you know, who's right and wrong or conflict, 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.600 especially in a public space, you know, you have to 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.640 be very mindful of like your dignity is the first 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.320 thing that goes out of the window. It doesn't matter 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.040 if you're right, wrong or whatever. If you're at odds 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.600 with someone who is has no melanin, you know, it's 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.359 very easy for them to manipulate the optics and the dynamics. 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.840 You know, someone can easily say I'm going to call 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.200 the police, and then we know that the police show 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.719 up and serve their interests. Even if they're wrong. They 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.600 can be dead wrong, but the police come, they show 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.159 they give them the respect, they listen to the whole story. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.480 And then even if they're wrong. You know. The energy 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.320 that they bring to our side, our side meaning perhaps 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:06.240 the more Melanie person in the equation oftentimes feels accusatory 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:12.800 and it feels biased against us. And so for a 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.520 person to make a phone call like this not really 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.440 weighing the consequences of what the phone call could hold 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.120 for this for these people, because if the police show 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.320 up with their guns out, that that's not let's check 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.359 on this and make sure everything is okay. They're like, 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.639 they're showing up thinking that the people inside this house 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.240 either are wanting to kill me or they're wanting to 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.159 kill someone in the house, like it's a life and 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.960 death situation. That's why in theory, police are supposed to 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.320 bring their guns out. Now, we know that police often 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.200 bring their guns out just because someone's black and close enough, right, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.000 But I think that these Karens might know that as 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:57.120 well and often use it against us to intimidate us. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.680 You know, maybe not everyone wants us to, but this 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.719 is the way that we see this Karen behavior deployed 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.639 in society over and over again, and oftentimes it does 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.560 end up with someone being hurt or being killed. We've 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.199 seen that plenty of times as well, a lot of 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.280 the stories that we don't get to talk about today. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.720 There's a story about a security guard who executed a 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.600 man at a gas station. I think it might have 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.480 been in Georgia. He was playing his music too loud. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.000 The black man said, hey, listen, let's talk about this 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.919 like men. And the officer was afraid of that, or 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.360 not officer. The security guard was afraid of that. Somehow 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.600 shot the man in his chest. He died on video 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.480 and then lost his life. Now, Fortunately for that story, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.000 and the reason why we didn't include it in today's 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:44.639 episode is because the security guard was arrested on I 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:45.960 think it was a murder charge. It might have been 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.800 a manslaughter charge. But because there's some accountability there, it 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.000 feels like, uh, it's unfair, but least people are doing 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.199 something about it. In this instance, this feels like a 0:19:55.280 --> 0:20:00.560 common occurrence among at least a common story my life, 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.280 you know, where if I had not been black, but 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.040 in the same situation or the same predicament, there would 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:08.840 have been no need to investigate, There had been no 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.840 need to escalate it, to involve authorities or anything like that. 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.160 Or if somebody would have just asked me, everything would 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.080 have been fine. And because this is such a relatable thing, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:27.120 I believe that most all black and brown peoples can 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.040 attest to that happening at some point in their life. 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.159 You know, had I, had I not been black, it 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:33.840 might not have happened, or it might not have been 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.080 so severe. You know, I will see the point that 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.080 you know, if someone strange is snooping around in an 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.800 abandoned house, you know, you might call someone to have 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.720 them investigate. But what I will also say is I 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.040 don't believe that if these people are white that that 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.960 call is as likely. But I definitely don't believe the 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.200 police show up with guns out, ready to end the life. 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:03.600 That feels like a very, very black experience. And these 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.639 are the stories that we need to tell as often 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.560 as we can to educate not only ourselves as black people, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.639 but to educate our brothers and sisters who are allies, 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.320 our white brothers and sisters, are Asian brothers and sisters, 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.040 our you know, Native brothers and sisters, our Hispanic brothers 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.879 and sisters, and on and on and on, so that 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:29.199 this doesn't feel like a series of isolated incidents. This 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.960 is a common experience, and it's it takes these articles 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.200 like this Yahoo article that we're reading right now, sorry, 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.800 CBS article that we're reading right now, to really bring 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.040 that to the forefront so that everyone understands it. Now, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:50.480 I do want to offer a quote from the police department, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:52.080 because you know, we can't just tell one side of 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:56.560 the story, and it is that okay right here at 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.879 the department said a man was previously arrested for unlawful 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.199 entry into the home on July twenty fourth, and the 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.119 nine to one to one caller told police this same 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:11.960 man had returned when they called the police on August first, 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.919 which is when these people were handcuffed, and you know 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:20.280 all that sort of stuff. Now, Q, as a father, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:25.520 Now we mentioned that the man who was house shopping 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.399 the home hunter, he was with his child. As a father, 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.560 how do you think that this impacts the child in 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:34.080 that equation. 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:37.400 I'm gonna get there, but I have to back up first. 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.000 We spoke about a bunch of things that I have 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.200 to kind of offer some commentary on. We keep using 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:49.280 the term abandoned home. Okay, this realtor was showing this house. 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.679 I'm sure he's not the only realtor that showed that 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.560 house to one person. Sure, right, So the idea that 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.359 there was some trespasser at this abandoned property, it even 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.400 sounds more criminal than a home that had not been 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.360 sold yet had a realtor and a potential buyer in it. 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.200 And even the idea of curiosity being punished by murder 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.119 is crazy. Even if it's not curiosity. Even if he 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.040 is breaking into this let's call it abandoned home and 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:22.560 stealing roof, tile or drywall or paint, murder should not 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:27.639 be the outcome gun drawn even right if my neighbor 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:29.320 was just mad at me and called the police and 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:31.399 told them I broke in, the police should have to 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.639 do some investigation first before their guns are drawn and 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.119 they're ready to shoot someone. As far as the sun 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:42.520 that's involved in this situation. I remember growing up and 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:43.400 being asked what. 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:44.840