Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. Iamy host rams
Speaker 1: this Jah. Most people call me q ward.
Speaker 2: But it's really just because they don't feel like saying
Speaker 2: Quinn like that. That special pronunciation of that oh gives
Speaker 2: people a lot of pause and they end up calling
Speaker 2: me quintin and that's not actually my name, So we
Speaker 2: just go with Q.
Speaker 1: But I only I won't get into that. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: we're gonna call you Q around here because we'd like
Speaker 1: to do things the right way. Yeah, another episode for
Speaker 1: you lined up. We're gonna talk about what we can
Speaker 1: talk about today, the goings on in black America. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we won't be able to hit everything. We already know
Speaker 1: that because it's been a busy week. Have you been
Speaker 1: keeping track of every thank you? I've been trying my best.
Speaker 2: We we often talk to each other about the never
Speaker 2: ending kind of flood of topics and content that we
Speaker 2: have for our show, and this week, like every other
Speaker 2: one before, it did not let us down.
Speaker 1: Well, we do have a few reasons for you to
Speaker 1: stick around. We are going to be talking about the
Speaker 1: incident in Michigan where a black real estate agent was
Speaker 1: showing a house to some potential home buyers and you know,
Speaker 1: the police surrounded gun. You're on what everybody can cuffs,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So we're going to get into that. Also,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about an instance in Ohio where
Speaker 1: a court sentenced two different women, one black, one white,
Speaker 1: to two very different sentences for the same crime. More
Speaker 1: or less.
Speaker 2: We'll break that down for a similar crimes.
Speaker 1: One was very much worse. But you know, you know
Speaker 1: how that story goes. We're going to get into it
Speaker 1: into more detail. And we can't wait to talk about
Speaker 1: the Uncle tom Way Black History fact with DJ Swirrel.
Speaker 1: We missed out on that last week, so we're going
Speaker 1: to do it this week. But first let's start to
Speaker 1: show off the way we like to that is with
Speaker 1: some ebony excellence. Is that all right with you?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: All I do is win, win, no matter what.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So you know, out of all the Ebony excellence that
Speaker 1: we've done that we've celebrated, we never talked about Beyonce
Speaker 1: and jay Z. That seems impossible, yeah, man, but you
Speaker 1: know this week, you know they've they've made it into
Speaker 1: headlines and so we're gonna we're gonna celebrate that Ebony
Speaker 1: excellence as it turns out, Beyonce revealed to Harper's Bizarre
Speaker 1: magazine right she was actually on the cover for next month.
Speaker 1: She revealed that her and jay Z are the new
Speaker 1: faces of Tiffany and Co. For those that are not
Speaker 1: familiar or not into jewelry or whatever, Tiffany and Co.
Speaker 1: Is a very high very much a high end jewelry
Speaker 1: company and very well known around the world. They advertise
Speaker 1: in magazines like Harper's Bazaar. This all this stuff is
Speaker 1: all very fancy. For me, I'm not really into very
Speaker 1: high brow. Yeah yeah, but for you know this to
Speaker 1: be a black woman as the face of this company,
Speaker 1: because this is an old company. It's companies from the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, I believe, is when they're the name changed.
Speaker 1: And that's also part of the reason why the name
Speaker 1: Tiffany ended up becoming popular in the eighties. Tiffany and Co.
Speaker 1: Had their role in that very early on in you know,
Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds. But I digress. Yeah, jay Z and
Speaker 1: Beyonce are going to be the faces of that company.
Speaker 1: So that feels like an accomplishment. And of course they
Speaker 1: just kind of embody ebony excellence. They don't really I mean,
Speaker 1: we could do a whole show on Beyonce and jay
Speaker 1: Z and how you know they've managed to rise above
Speaker 1: that crabs in the bucket mentality that really persists in
Speaker 1: the black community in some areas, and you know, really
Speaker 1: lean into their own individuality and I really love that.
Speaker 1: But for now, we're just going to give them kudos
Speaker 1: for making I see the number eighteen billion dollars here,
Speaker 1: so making a move with a company that's where the
Speaker 1: eighteen billion dollars. So again, I.
Speaker 2: Wish we could queue Shining from DJ Keller right now
Speaker 2: featuring Hey, you know what, that'd be a great appropriate there.
Speaker 1: But moving on, I think it's time for us to
Speaker 1: talk about your home state. There's a city there called
Speaker 1: Wyoming in Michis. How about that. Didn't know that, but
Speaker 1: I'll read a bit. This comes from CBS News. So
Speaker 1: the headline reads, black real estate agent and his clients
Speaker 1: handcuffed at house viewing after neighbor wrongly reported break in Okay.
Speaker 1: So it says body camera footage on the August first
Speaker 1: incident shows police arriving at the home and telling the
Speaker 1: men to exit single file with their hands in the air.
Speaker 1: The real estate agent, his client, and his client's son
Speaker 1: all exit the house individually and walk across the lawn
Speaker 1: before they are handcuffed by officers. The footage captures the agent,
Speaker 1: Eric Brown, telling the officers that he's a realtor with
Speaker 1: Keller William's Realty. The officers told Brown the house had
Speaker 1: recently been broken into, and a neighbor called police because
Speaker 1: they believe the men were breaking in. After Brown shows
Speaker 1: the officers his realtor's license and the key to the home,
Speaker 1: the officers removed the men's handcuffs and release them. Q.
Speaker 1: You're from the d You're from the motor I'm I'm.
Speaker 1: I know that Detroit is probably very different from Wyoming, Michigan,
Speaker 1: but I've always known Detroit to be a place that
Speaker 1: was very Maybe afrocentric is a little too strong, but
Speaker 1: you know, black people don't have to be as concerned
Speaker 1: as perhaps in like the Deep South. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a black community established there and people kind of maybe
Speaker 1: not get along better, but they're understand that they're sharing
Speaker 1: this environment with folks who don't look like them. So
Speaker 1: how does this hit you?
Speaker 2: So it's a lot different now when I was growing up,
Speaker 2: when I was going to school, I am all of
Speaker 2: my classmates from pre K to my senior year of
Speaker 2: high school were black, like every one of them. And
Speaker 2: I don't just mean sitting in the classroom with me.
Speaker 2: I mean every person that I would see in the
Speaker 2: hallway was black. The concentration of uh black people that
Speaker 2: live in Detroit now is not as high as it
Speaker 2: was when I was a kid, but it's still higher
Speaker 2: than the medium like it's it's it's a it's a
Speaker 2: black city, not in the you know, high ninety percent
Speaker 2: like it was when I was younger, but still a
Speaker 2: place where black people tend to feel more comfortable because
Speaker 2: there are a lot of other black people there. Wyoming,
Speaker 2: Michigan is not Detroit, and you know, shouts out to
Speaker 2: the mitt in my home state. But no, your your
Speaker 2: assumptions about Detroit are correct. You know, you know, growing up,
Speaker 2: you didn't have the high racial tension like you said
Speaker 2: that you would imagine in places like the Deep South,
Speaker 2: because your neighbors, your teachers, your police officers or your fireman,
Speaker 2: your doctor, we're all black people. Your dentists, we're all
Speaker 2: black people. So yes, you are correct on those points.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing that troubles me a bit is, you know,
Speaker 1: for this type of this situation actually reminds me of
Speaker 1: I can't want to make sure I remember his name.
Speaker 1: It might be Michael Brown, but in any event, it
Speaker 1: reminds me of a story that happened. It couldn't have
Speaker 1: been Michael Brown. Who was it. Oh? It always drives
Speaker 1: me crazy because I have to remember these names of
Speaker 1: people that I've never met, and the story is often
Speaker 1: very similar. Anyway, there's a story.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The trouble with the trouble with remembering the names is
Speaker 2: not because you haven't met these people. It's that there's
Speaker 2: too many names that too, we have too many stories,
Speaker 2: too many examples to hold proper inventory of all of
Speaker 2: these people that are being slain and treated unjustly just
Speaker 2: because they look like you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, But the story will sound familiar. And if
Speaker 1: the name comes to you, please let me know. So
Speaker 1: there's a young man. He's jogging through a neighborhood. He
Speaker 1: ends up exploring an abandoned house, you know, just because
Speaker 1: it appears to be abandoned actually was a construction site.
Speaker 1: He walks into the house, some people pull up in
Speaker 1: a pickup truck. They start yelling at him to leave
Speaker 1: the house. He starts walking away, or whatever. They end
Speaker 1: up shooting him in the street and he dies there.
Speaker 1: It's all on video. Aubrey is a mad Aubrey. That's it.
Speaker 1: Mike Brown was Ferguson right, but a mode Aubrey. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of that story because again, a black person
Speaker 1: in the house. And I mentioned before on the show,
Speaker 1: and I've had this in I've mentioned this in certain
Speaker 1: conversations where people say, you know, if the activity looks suspicious,
Speaker 1: then people have a right to investigate, right, which, if
Speaker 1: left on its own, seems to be a very sensible
Speaker 1: argument to make. You know, hey, I don't know these people.
Speaker 1: They're in this property. You know, the property's abandoned, and
Speaker 1: it feels a little bit funny. But I think the
Speaker 1: question I introduced into the narrative oftentimes is why does
Speaker 1: it feel funny? Why does it feel like it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be happening? Because if you swap out a just to
Speaker 1: pick a number, twenty one year old black male for
Speaker 1: a twenty one year old white female, the entire tone
Speaker 1: of this person's argument changes. Well, of course you don't
Speaker 1: call the police on that sort of a person. Well,
Speaker 1: why not, is it because that type of person doesn't steal.
Speaker 1: And now are we dealing with your prejudices because your
Speaker 1: assumption is that this person, because of the color of
Speaker 1: their skin, is in this house stealing. Could they not
Speaker 1: be exploring the property the same way that the white
Speaker 1: woman in your imagination does, you know, And this has
Speaker 1: always been a very personal thing to me, because once
Speaker 1: upon a time I built a house. You know, I
Speaker 1: saved all my little pennies working at my little radio station,
Speaker 1: and I built a house for my family. And while
Speaker 1: that house was being built, I was so inspired and
Speaker 1: so excited and energized by that that I would often
Speaker 1: go and visit and I would sit on the land
Speaker 1: and I would just be in my home, my future home,
Speaker 1: but I would be on my land that I purchased,
Speaker 1: you know, I would be there and just watch the
Speaker 1: development of my property. Now where I my house was built,
Speaker 1: it was way on the outskirts of town, so there
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of folks, you know, paying attention. You know,
Speaker 1: every house was being built, you know, and no one
Speaker 1: drives all the way out there to steal nothing, I
Speaker 1: mean house roof tiles or whatever. You know, it didn't
Speaker 1: really make sense, but I remember being in that space,
Speaker 1: being inspired and fascinated by the build process. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this is what was going through on Od Aubrey's
Speaker 1: head or anything like that, but I do recognize that
Speaker 1: when you're able to see something that you don't get
Speaker 1: to see every day, it might be a little interesting,
Speaker 1: like a house as it's being built, Like what goes
Speaker 1: inside of a wall? How does this work? I've never
Speaker 1: you know, because normally most of us are accustomed to
Speaker 1: seeing whatever. So this is me perhaps giving a mod
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt. He obviously is no longer
Speaker 1: alive to tell his own version of the story. But
Speaker 1: this is the story I believe needs to be told
Speaker 1: alongside that question, which is the same preconception show up
Speaker 1: in your mind when the person who's jogging and visiting
Speaker 1: this house as it's being built is a white female,
Speaker 1: blond haired, twenty one year old you know whatever. So
Speaker 1: having been on a construction site before, having been being
Speaker 1: fascinated by the amount of dry wall that it takes
Speaker 1: to outfit a house, and the amount of lumber and
Speaker 1: all these sorts of things, I can easily see myself
Speaker 1: in that situation. I can easily imagine someone calling the
Speaker 1: police and me losing my life because or calling whatever
Speaker 1: authorities they deem appropriate, and me losing my life because
Speaker 1: I was curious, right, the same as this twenty six
Speaker 1: year old white or twenty one year old white female,
Speaker 1: as we imagine, but the tone is different because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm black, I'm ods black, and these realtors in this
Speaker 1: story are black. Right, then we have to take into
Speaker 1: account the police's response. Do the police show up guns drawn,
Speaker 1: with their weapons trained on these human beings if they
Speaker 1: are white, we'll call them sixty five year old.
Speaker 2: No, don't call them sixty five. The age of these
Speaker 2: people they swap out that they're white, don't. You don't
Speaker 2: have to make them old white people just white.
Speaker 1: I recognize that sometimes age factors into it, because you know,
Speaker 1: older black folks don't seem to get as much in
Speaker 1: the way of the the stereotypes. You know. I mean
Speaker 1: they do, of course, but I mean there's probably an
Speaker 1: extra ten percent that's added on when you're younger, especially
Speaker 1: a male, right, you know, just there's these these criminal
Speaker 1: things that are associated with you based on your age
Speaker 1: and based on your sex, that are that are just
Speaker 1: beyond your race by itself.
Speaker 2: But in order for a person's implicit biases to switch
Speaker 2: the people in the story. And in our example of
Speaker 2: our example of being pulled over in the Porsche and
Speaker 2: the example of this realtor showing this house, the people
Speaker 2: were just white, but they don't have to be exactly
Speaker 2: the same. But I'm just saying, if the people were
Speaker 2: just white, it would be different. We don't have to
Speaker 2: age them to make them more innocent and more sweet,
Speaker 2: very good two people our age driving that Porsche. The
Speaker 2: response is different if they're white entirely.
Speaker 1: And so if you imagine that this realtor and the
Speaker 1: gentleman who was viewing the house and his child were white,
Speaker 1: do the police show up, guns drawn? Do the police
Speaker 1: even get called in the first place? And I think
Speaker 1: that it's there that we find that sort of Karen
Speaker 1: and I think the other word when it's a male
Speaker 1: is a Kevin, but that Karen and Kevin behavior where
Speaker 1: anything black is criminal, anything white, even if I'm not
Speaker 1: familiar with this person with this face, if it's white,
Speaker 1: it's right. And if it's black attack, I just coined
Speaker 1: that I want my royalties. But I think that it's
Speaker 1: in that space where we can really do a lot.
Speaker 4: Of work.
Speaker 1: With ourselves, you know, and and you know, I'm talking
Speaker 1: about allies of black people and brown people and Native
Speaker 1: people and people that are typically associated with, you know,
Speaker 1: a more negative stereotypes, because once someone had if if
Speaker 1: a Karen starts crying, you know, then the ready assumption
Speaker 1: is that she has been wronged and that she needs
Speaker 1: to be made whole right, and and it's very much
Speaker 1: unfair to people who have not wronged her, who happen
Speaker 1: to be nearby and maybe are at odds with her
Speaker 1: or him if it's a Kevin and you know, you
Speaker 1: start off that with a disadvantage. What happens is, you know,
Speaker 1: we saw a couple of weeks ago in a jewelry
Speaker 1: store or sorry, a makeup store where a woman was
Speaker 1: clearly wrong, a white woman clearly wrong and mistreating a
Speaker 1: black woman in the store, and she didn't like the
Speaker 1: idea of being filmed, so she started crying as she
Speaker 1: was throwing her temper tantrum. She started crying while she's
Speaker 1: throwing the tantrum, and then immediately everyone started to look
Speaker 1: at her as though she had been wronged, even though
Speaker 1: it was clearly on video that she was the one
Speaker 1: doing the wrong and they were saying no, get out
Speaker 1: of here, stop filming her, blah blah blah, this sort
Speaker 1: of behavior, and that feels very unfair. You know, there's
Speaker 1: this narrative that exists in the black community that says
Speaker 1: that you have to be twice as good to be
Speaker 1: to be to make it half as far, or something
Speaker 1: like that. You know, there's different ways of saying that
Speaker 1: same expressing that same concept. And I think that if
Speaker 1: you take that the premise and you apply it to
Speaker 1: matters of you know, who's right and wrong or conflict,
Speaker 1: especially in a public space, you know, you have to
Speaker 1: be very mindful of like your dignity is the first
Speaker 1: thing that goes out of the window. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if you're right, wrong or whatever. If you're at odds
Speaker 1: with someone who is has no melanin, you know, it's
Speaker 1: very easy for them to manipulate the optics and the dynamics.
Speaker 1: You know, someone can easily say I'm going to call
Speaker 1: the police, and then we know that the police show
Speaker 1: up and serve their interests. Even if they're wrong. They
Speaker 1: can be dead wrong, but the police come, they show
Speaker 1: they give them the respect, they listen to the whole story.
Speaker 1: And then even if they're wrong. You know. The energy
Speaker 1: that they bring to our side, our side meaning perhaps
Speaker 1: the more Melanie person in the equation oftentimes feels accusatory
Speaker 1: and it feels biased against us. And so for a
Speaker 1: person to make a phone call like this not really
Speaker 1: weighing the consequences of what the phone call could hold
Speaker 1: for this for these people, because if the police show
Speaker 1: up with their guns out, that that's not let's check
Speaker 1: on this and make sure everything is okay. They're like,
Speaker 1: they're showing up thinking that the people inside this house
Speaker 1: either are wanting to kill me or they're wanting to
Speaker 1: kill someone in the house, like it's a life and
Speaker 1: death situation. That's why in theory, police are supposed to
Speaker 1: bring their guns out. Now, we know that police often
Speaker 1: bring their guns out just because someone's black and close enough, right,
Speaker 1: But I think that these Karens might know that as
Speaker 1: well and often use it against us to intimidate us.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe not everyone wants us to, but this
Speaker 1: is the way that we see this Karen behavior deployed
Speaker 1: in society over and over again, and oftentimes it does
Speaker 1: end up with someone being hurt or being killed. We've
Speaker 1: seen that plenty of times as well, a lot of
Speaker 1: the stories that we don't get to talk about today.
Speaker 1: There's a story about a security guard who executed a
Speaker 1: man at a gas station. I think it might have
Speaker 1: been in Georgia. He was playing his music too loud.
Speaker 1: The black man said, hey, listen, let's talk about this
Speaker 1: like men. And the officer was afraid of that, or
Speaker 1: not officer. The security guard was afraid of that. Somehow
Speaker 1: shot the man in his chest. He died on video
Speaker 1: and then lost his life. Now, Fortunately for that story,
Speaker 1: and the reason why we didn't include it in today's
Speaker 1: episode is because the security guard was arrested on I
Speaker 1: think it was a murder charge. It might have been
Speaker 1: a manslaughter charge. But because there's some accountability there, it
Speaker 1: feels like, uh, it's unfair, but least people are doing
Speaker 1: something about it. In this instance, this feels like a
Speaker 1: common occurrence among at least a common story my life,
Speaker 1: you know, where if I had not been black, but
Speaker 1: in the same situation or the same predicament, there would
Speaker 1: have been no need to investigate, There had been no
Speaker 1: need to escalate it, to involve authorities or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Or if somebody would have just asked me, everything would
Speaker 1: have been fine. And because this is such a relatable thing,
Speaker 1: I believe that most all black and brown peoples can
Speaker 1: attest to that happening at some point in their life.
Speaker 1: You know, had I, had I not been black, it
Speaker 1: might not have happened, or it might not have been
Speaker 1: so severe. You know, I will see the point that
Speaker 1: you know, if someone strange is snooping around in an
Speaker 1: abandoned house, you know, you might call someone to have
Speaker 1: them investigate. But what I will also say is I
Speaker 1: don't believe that if these people are white that that
Speaker 1: call is as likely. But I definitely don't believe the
Speaker 1: police show up with guns out, ready to end the life.
Speaker 1: That feels like a very, very black experience. And these
Speaker 1: are the stories that we need to tell as often
Speaker 1: as we can to educate not only ourselves as black people,
Speaker 1: but to educate our brothers and sisters who are allies,
Speaker 1: our white brothers and sisters, are Asian brothers and sisters,
Speaker 1: our you know, Native brothers and sisters, our Hispanic brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters, and on and on and on, so that
Speaker 1: this doesn't feel like a series of isolated incidents. This
Speaker 1: is a common experience, and it's it takes these articles
Speaker 1: like this Yahoo article that we're reading right now, sorry,
Speaker 1: CBS article that we're reading right now, to really bring
Speaker 1: that to the forefront so that everyone understands it. Now,
Speaker 1: I do want to offer a quote from the police department,
Speaker 1: because you know, we can't just tell one side of
Speaker 1: the story, and it is that okay right here at
Speaker 1: the department said a man was previously arrested for unlawful
Speaker 1: entry into the home on July twenty fourth, and the
Speaker 1: nine to one to one caller told police this same
Speaker 1: man had returned when they called the police on August first,
Speaker 1: which is when these people were handcuffed, and you know
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. Now, Q, as a father,
Speaker 1: Now we mentioned that the man who was house shopping
Speaker 1: the home hunter, he was with his child. As a father,
Speaker 1: how do you think that this impacts the child in
Speaker 1: that equation.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get there, but I have to back up first.
Speaker 2: We spoke about a bunch of things that I have
Speaker 2: to kind of offer some commentary on. We keep using
Speaker 2: the term abandoned home. Okay, this realtor was showing this house.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he's not the only realtor that showed that
Speaker 2: house to one person. Sure, right, So the idea that
Speaker 2: there was some trespasser at this abandoned property, it even
Speaker 2: sounds more criminal than a home that had not been
Speaker 2: sold yet had a realtor and a potential buyer in it.
Speaker 2: And even the idea of curiosity being punished by murder
Speaker 2: is crazy. Even if it's not curiosity. Even if he
Speaker 2: is breaking into this let's call it abandoned home and
Speaker 2: stealing roof, tile or drywall or paint, murder should not
Speaker 2: be the outcome gun drawn even right if my neighbor
Speaker 2: was just mad at me and called the police and
Speaker 2: told them I broke in, the police should have to
Speaker 2: do some investigation first before their guns are drawn and
Speaker 2: they're ready to shoot someone. As far as the sun
Speaker 2: that's involved in this situation. I remember growing up and
Speaker 2: being asked what.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be when you grow up?
Speaker 2: And not for me personally or actually for me personally,
Speaker 2: because my father's brother and my mother's brother were both
Speaker 2: police officers, but for a kids firemen, police officer, or astronaut.
Speaker 2: These are the type of answers you give because police
Speaker 2: are painted as heroes and they are there to protect
Speaker 2: and serve the community. That's what you think often that
Speaker 2: narrative is not changed by parents or teachers or movies.
Speaker 2: Even it's changed by interaction with police officers, and this
Speaker 2: teenager will forever be traumatized by the time him and
Speaker 2: his father went looking to purchase a home and were
Speaker 2: held at gunpoint and handcuffed by police officers simply because
Speaker 2: they look the way they look. That's it, you know what.
Speaker 2: And it's not like we don't know these potential outcomes,
Speaker 2: Like once upon a time, we didn't have all this video,
Speaker 2: we didn't have all this evidence, so it was just
Speaker 2: our story. But now when people call that number and
Speaker 2: they call the police, they know the possible outcomes, so
Speaker 2: they don't have that plausible deniability anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, well, said my friend. That's the world we live in, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but it's getting better. And now watching my mic back
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 5: Strike waters from head borders behind in the.
Speaker 1: Bel If you're just tuning in the civic cipher, I'm
Speaker 1: your host Ramsay's job.
Speaker 2: They called me Keyward, and sometimes Ramless thinks I don't
Speaker 2: have this positive outlook on us getting better as he does.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's right.
Speaker 1: Well, uh, there's only one way for all of us
Speaker 1: to go. As brothers, and sisters who shared this planet.
Speaker 1: That's my philosophy. Anyway to that end, stick around, because
Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about a court that
Speaker 1: sentences unfairly black and white people. We have a living,
Speaker 1: breathing example of that. We're also going to talk about
Speaker 1: Uncle Tom. We're going to educate you on what Uncle
Speaker 1: Tom means, the term, where it comes from, and who
Speaker 1: Uncle Tom was. And right now I think we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about ways to become a better ally. So
Speaker 1: with that said, let's get into it too. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: did you know that August is Black Business Month? I
Speaker 1: did not know that, I'll be honest. That's something that
Speaker 1: I learned recently as well. But because we have a
Speaker 1: radio show, and because we can empower our allies to
Speaker 1: become better allies, and because it is a part of
Speaker 1: our responsibility to be reasonably informed and to inform other folks,
Speaker 1: I think that what we're going to do with this
Speaker 1: Ba BA segment is we're going to tell everybody to
Speaker 1: get out there and support black business. It seems like
Speaker 1: a given, but this month, in particular, there's a lot
Speaker 1: more surrounding that. You know, a lot more optics, a
Speaker 1: lot more people paying attention or metrics and so forth.
Speaker 1: And you know, anytime there's a month dedicated to celebrating
Speaker 1: and uplifting underserved business owners and dedicated to realizing the
Speaker 1: importance of black and brown businesses to the local communities
Speaker 1: and to the national economy, it's certainly worth a mention. Now,
Speaker 1: supporting these businesses doesn't just mean financially. Of course that
Speaker 1: is paramount, but you know, if you find black businesses
Speaker 1: on your social media likes follows kind words, any form
Speaker 1: of online support that really does go a long way.
Speaker 1: If fiscally or you know, tapped out. We know it's
Speaker 1: not as easy for everyone to spend their money if
Speaker 1: it's not as convenient as like say a Walmart. But
Speaker 1: also encouraging patronage, encourage your friends to you know, dedicate
Speaker 1: their financial support and just you know, blow the business up.
Speaker 1: You know, we recognize that a little bit of support
Speaker 1: goes a long way, especially in black and brown communities.
Speaker 1: And so that is how you can become a better ally.
Speaker 1: And that's our tip for the week. So yeah, moving on,
Speaker 1: let's talk about what happened in Ohio. So I want
Speaker 1: to read this because I think that this kind of
Speaker 1: tells the story better than I could. So this is
Speaker 1: from Yahoo. So the headline reads, Ohio court sentences black
Speaker 1: woman to eighteen months in prison the day after giving
Speaker 1: white woman probation for same crime. Now this is a lot,
Speaker 1: so bear with me here on August.
Speaker 2: By the way, Sagan, that headline is loaded.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's why I need to read it, just
Speaker 1: to kind of flesh it all out. So on August second,
Speaker 1: former Schangrin Falls, Ohio village clerk Debbie Bosworth pleaded no
Speaker 1: contest to twenty two counts of theft and office tampering
Speaker 1: with records and money laundering after auditors discovered she had
Speaker 1: embezzled more than two hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars
Speaker 1: over the span of twenty years. Remember those numbers, two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars and twenty years. The
Speaker 1: Coo Yahoga County Prosecutor's office rejected the three year old
Speaker 1: Bosworth's plea and asked the judge to sentence her to prison,
Speaker 1: even though she wrote a check for one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars to repay part of her debt when her scheme
Speaker 1: was uncovered. But Bobsworth is white, as is Cuyahoga County
Speaker 1: Common Please Court Judge Holly Gallagher. The very next day
Speaker 1: assistant Cuyahoga County Kyaz Jesus, I can't say this, Kyahoga.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: C County Prosecutor James Gutierrez, the same assistant district attorney
Speaker 1: who prosecuted Bosworth, recommended a prison sentence for fifty one
Speaker 1: year old former school secretary Where's her name? Hopkins? It's
Speaker 1: her name uh from Maple Heights High School. Although Hopkins
Speaker 1: appeared before the exact same court, Hopkins judge was a
Speaker 1: white man, Cuyahoga County Common Please Court Rick Bell. Unlike Bosworth,
Speaker 1: Gallagher pleaded guilty. Unlike Bosworth, Hopkins was only charged with
Speaker 1: one count of theft in office. Unlike Bosworth, Hopkins had
Speaker 1: already found a new job, completed an inpatient program for
Speaker 1: her gambling addiction, and had promised to replay the money
Speaker 1: she stole. Neither judge could comment on their sentences, but
Speaker 1: Cleveland Cleveland activists immediately decried the disparity in the two sentences.
Speaker 1: The white woman committed more crimes over a longer period
Speaker 1: of time, she stole more money than the black woman.
Speaker 1: She had twenty one more charges and cost taxpayers six
Speaker 1: times more money. She was facing sixty years in prison,
Speaker 1: while the black woman's maximum sentence was three years. Yet
Speaker 1: the black woman received more prison time than prosecutors wanted
Speaker 1: her to spend in jail. So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2: I spoke about implicit biases earlier, Okay, and just for
Speaker 2: our listeners, Implicit biases are oftentimes prejudices that we have
Speaker 2: against different subgroups that are kind of built in and unconscious.
Speaker 2: They're subconscious prejudices that developed throughout our lives that oftentimes
Speaker 2: are not front of mind. However, it is possible to
Speaker 2: have implicit bias and to be overtly racist at the
Speaker 2: same time.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me what you mean.
Speaker 2: In this case, the white woman not only stole more money,
Speaker 2: had far more charges, had a much greater maximum sentence.
Speaker 2: And yes, and in both cases jail time was recommended.
Speaker 2: Not only does the black woman with lesser charges for
Speaker 2: less money have more jail time than the white woman,
Speaker 2: she has jail time the white woman does not. And
Speaker 2: the headline says probation versus jail time for the same crime.
Speaker 2: But it would be like me and someone else both
Speaker 2: being charged for murder, except that person is being accused
Speaker 2: of killing one person, and I am being accused of
Speaker 2: killing twenty and I get probation and that person gets
Speaker 2: life in prison. Now, in this case, it's hard to
Speaker 2: imagine because you guys that are listening, I'm guessing know
Speaker 2: that I'm not white, but make it. You know John
Speaker 2: Doe and his brother Jack, you know, or John and
Speaker 2: Jack Doe. One's black ones white. There's grossly more reasons
Speaker 2: right on paper to convict and send to prison one
Speaker 2: of these people. The opposite person is the one that
Speaker 2: get that actually got sentenced, with the district attorney suggesting
Speaker 2: jail time for both. The reasons why are very flagrant,
Speaker 2: and I'm guessing that's why there's no comment on how
Speaker 2: the judge is ruled in these cases. There's actually pictures
Speaker 2: of the women on the story, and if you're looking
Speaker 2: at the pictures and if you're listening to this show,
Speaker 2: the reasons why and why not are pretty glaring and
Speaker 2: pretty obvious.
Speaker 1: So we know that oftentimes race, rather than culpability, shapes
Speaker 1: outcomes with respect to the criminal justice system. Not only
Speaker 1: do we know that, but it's documented, well documented that
Speaker 1: black people overwhelmingly receive harsher sentences for the same crimes
Speaker 1: when compared to our white brothers and sisters. And you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks U A L. I, like us especially,
Speaker 1: have grown up with those statistics. We know that to
Speaker 1: be true, and which is why we have to be
Speaker 1: work twice as hard to be half as good. This
Speaker 1: is part of the reason why I think you and
Speaker 1: I can say that we've never done a drug in
Speaker 1: our life because we know, you know, if even if
Speaker 1: I wanted to experiment with that, the consequences for me
Speaker 1: are very different for the consequences of the rest of
Speaker 1: the people that I go to high school with. And
Speaker 1: so there's that, But rarely do we get the same court,
Speaker 1: the same you know, exact crime, and the day after,
Speaker 1: you know that day after that doesn't feel as commonplace.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I remember reading something a while ago, and it was
Speaker 1: about cocaine versus crack. Now, crack typically is associated with
Speaker 1: a poorer sort. Cocaine is a purer drug. Crack it
Speaker 1: takes chemicals and you know, all this sort of stuff
Speaker 1: to make it into crack, and basically you take I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to give anyone a lesson, but just so
Speaker 1: you understand, how this is how this comes about. You
Speaker 1: take cocaine and then you turn it into lots of
Speaker 1: crack is my understanding of the way that works. You know,
Speaker 1: I listen to rap music, so I got a little
Speaker 1: bit of that. You know, that's that's just how it is.
Speaker 1: You know, in a lot of really poor black communities,
Speaker 1: that's a release. You know, that's one of the pillars
Speaker 1: of the you know, economic system of at least some
Speaker 1: of the folks who can ascend beyond the poverty level.
Speaker 1: That's one way of getting out. Although that that or
Speaker 1: what a big you say. You either sling in crack
Speaker 1: rock or you got a wicked jump shot, so that unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there is reality in a lot of places around this country.
Speaker 1: So that's how I know that. But when you think
Speaker 1: about it, the sentencing and this was this was part
Speaker 1: of the article. I right, The sentencing for crimes associated
Speaker 1: with crack cocaine were twice as harsh as those associated
Speaker 1: for cocaine because cocaine.
Speaker 2: And to piggyback on what you're saying around this, because
Speaker 2: you said chemical and made it sound more complicated, imagine
Speaker 2: the charges for having water being different for the charges
Speaker 2: for having ice. It's almost that literal, it's a powder
Speaker 2: form of the substance versus a rock form of the
Speaker 2: same substance. And don't want people to think that, oh,
Speaker 2: so there was chemicals added so that made it worse
Speaker 2: or no, no, no, no no. The poor people have access
Speaker 2: to ice, the more wealthy people have access to water,
Speaker 2: and having ice is far more criminal than having water,
Speaker 2: And so even though the substance is the same.
Speaker 1: Same chemically, So I think what I was saying is
Speaker 1: there's a chemical process that turns it from a powder
Speaker 1: foam to it that you probably know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe our listeners know, because fortunately we didn't have to
Speaker 1: grow up too deep in the deep end of all that.
Speaker 1: But to everyone who has no judgments here, that's not
Speaker 1: what this place is for. But I think the point
Speaker 1: we're making is that for the criminal justice system to
Speaker 1: look at the water and the ice in this analogy
Speaker 1: and say, well, this one is associated with black people,
Speaker 1: with poor people, because a lot of times wealth also
Speaker 1: shapes outcomes rather than culpability poor people. Because there I've
Speaker 1: known a few white crackheads in my day too, and
Speaker 1: it affects human beings the same across the board. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what color you are. But you know,
Speaker 1: crimes associated with this form of this drug are they
Speaker 1: carry double or often or sometimes even more in the
Speaker 1: way of punishment versus with this one. It's like the
Speaker 1: equivalent to a slap on the wrist if that. And
Speaker 1: we know plenty of stories where if it's the right
Speaker 1: person and they have the right you know, you know,
Speaker 1: my dad is such and such, or you know, I
Speaker 1: come from this family or whatever, and I was just
Speaker 1: having a good time with my friends. It's really nothing.
Speaker 1: It's a small amount. Okay, well, you're not supposed to
Speaker 1: have this going about your business. And then you know,
Speaker 1: I know stories personally of people actually police officers actually
Speaker 1: planting evidence on people that granted the stories were from
Speaker 1: my childhood, but you know, I very much believe them
Speaker 1: to be true because you know, that's I mean, I
Speaker 1: have every reason to trust you know, people aren't related
Speaker 1: to and no, I've never really been given a reason
Speaker 1: to trust the police. And you know, to piggyback off
Speaker 1: of what we said earlier in the show, you know,
Speaker 1: the police in my life have always positioned themselves more
Speaker 1: often as the bad guys than the good guys. And
Speaker 1: I recognized in a much broader sense that you know,
Speaker 1: that's who you turn to, not who I personally turn to,
Speaker 1: but that's who society turns to and there needs to
Speaker 1: be a resolution to some harm that's taking place or whatever.
Speaker 1: But you know, they would probably be fourth or fifth
Speaker 1: on the list of folks that I would call personally,
Speaker 1: but just kind of knowing that it kind of feels
Speaker 1: like the odds are stacked against dust at every conceivable point.
Speaker 1: You know that even if you end up on the
Speaker 1: wrong side of the law, on the wrong side of
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system, there's a million reasons for that,
Speaker 1: you know, potentially, you know, for any any one person,
Speaker 1: some people I will be the first to admit they're
Speaker 1: just bad people. Bad people come in all colors. Some
Speaker 1: people are just willing to ignore the rules in place
Speaker 1: in a society and they want the shortcut. I will
Speaker 1: see that as well. But some people recognize that their
Speaker 1: options are limited or otherwise they're groomed in the lifestyle
Speaker 1: because of circumstances, invisible circumstances that exist in a country
Speaker 1: and in a government and so forth around them that
Speaker 1: compel them in a in a given direction. And I
Speaker 1: recognize that a lot and So this is why I
Speaker 1: tend to be pretty empathetic with people, even if they
Speaker 1: do end up on the wrong side of the law,
Speaker 1: because I understand that oftentimes there are stories that you know,
Speaker 1: no one is born and says, you know what I
Speaker 1: want to do when I grow up, I want to
Speaker 1: be a criminal, and I want to you know, I
Speaker 1: want to be at odds with the way the world works,
Speaker 1: you know, and the way you know, most people are.
Speaker 1: You know, and I'm sure if you asked anyone if
Speaker 1: they could do what they're doing, if they could earn
Speaker 1: what they needed to earn and do something that's a
Speaker 1: little bit less dangerous, that most folks would say absolutely.
Speaker 1: I don't think people wake up and like, yeah, lis'sen
Speaker 1: another day of getting out here and doing all this
Speaker 1: crazy stuff. With that said, to know that, you know,
Speaker 1: oftentimes people will end up on, you know, the wrong
Speaker 1: side of the criminal justice system, you would think that,
Speaker 1: you know what, I might be able to get in
Speaker 1: front of a judge and say, you know, I was
Speaker 1: born in this environment. I had to take care of
Speaker 1: my family, I had to do what I had to do.
Speaker 1: This just seemed like a way to introduce some mobility.
Speaker 1: This wasn't a long term thing for me. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: You know, I'll be able to say that in front
Speaker 1: of a judge, another human being who hopefully has a
Speaker 1: bit of compassion and will understand that this is not me,
Speaker 1: This is just what I did at that time. Right,
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people of all colors who have
Speaker 1: that story in their life. Some people get caught and
Speaker 1: they have to account for it, and some people don't.
Speaker 1: I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. You know,
Speaker 1: it's victimless crime, and it was a million years ago.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's everybody that has those sorts of
Speaker 1: stories in their life. Fortunately I never had to talk
Speaker 1: about that in front of a judge, but at this
Speaker 1: age in my life, I recognize it if I did.
Speaker 1: You know, two things might count against me. One the
Speaker 1: fact that I have a little bit more melanin in
Speaker 1: my body and so that tends to weigh on the
Speaker 1: judge's decision. But also the nature of the crime, which
Speaker 1: in this case or the example we're using, has to
Speaker 1: do with you know, ice and water or cocaine versus crack,
Speaker 1: and that the sentencing criteria is vastly different for a
Speaker 1: person who has been in the possession of crack cocaine,
Speaker 1: because it's typically associated with black people and poor people,
Speaker 1: and that feels very unfair. So knowing that you already
Speaker 1: know that going into a courtroom, you're at a bit
Speaker 1: of a disadvantage. But rarely, as I stated before, do
Speaker 1: we have an opportunity to see the same crime. And
Speaker 1: really the only difference is that one person is white
Speaker 1: and one person is black. And as you stated, one
Speaker 1: person who did way worse stuff gets probation, and of
Speaker 1: course the black person gets prison time for the same
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to read that part again
Speaker 1: where she says the where did it go? She says
Speaker 1: that the white woman committed more crimes over a longer
Speaker 1: period of time, she stole more money, she had twenty
Speaker 1: one more charges and cost taxpayer six times more money.
Speaker 1: And then the black woman she found a new job,
Speaker 1: completed an inpatient programming for her gambling addition, and made
Speaker 1: a promise to pay the money that she stole. So
Speaker 1: all of those things feel like and she still got
Speaker 1: sentenced to prison time with a promise to repay a
Speaker 1: new job. She's like, I've turned over a new leaf.
Speaker 1: While you're going to prison. Nobody gets away scot free,
Speaker 1: which is fair. I'm not saying that the black woman
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been sentenced if she did the crime. You know,
Speaker 1: there should be consequences for that. I'll be the first
Speaker 1: to admit that. But what we're seeing is that the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system really, you really do have an advantage
Speaker 1: when you are less melanated. You know, people talk about
Speaker 1: white privilege, people talk about you know, you know, people
Speaker 1: think a lot of these things are imagined, like we're
Speaker 1: just making this stuff up, and you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: up to us, and it's up to shows like Civic
Speaker 1: Cipher to point out the fact that these things are
Speaker 1: not imaginary. These things are very real. Not only is
Speaker 1: their data, we have literally a real world example of
Speaker 1: it happening. You can go to Yahoo and type in
Speaker 1: the story and it'll come up and you can read
Speaker 1: it for yourself.
Speaker 2: And then once again that that headline and us we
Speaker 2: keep saying same crime. It's not Yeah, the person that's
Speaker 2: not going to prison did way more wrong, way more.
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to I want to read
Speaker 1: this quote because I think this kind of helps tell
Speaker 1: a slightly different part of the story. So the quote is.
Speaker 1: I think it reinforces the lack of trust in the
Speaker 1: justice system, said Danielle Signor, president of Cleveland's NAACP chapter.
Speaker 1: The quote these types of things are the way the
Speaker 1: system was designed, and they will continue to happen if
Speaker 1: we don't have large scale reform end quote. And I
Speaker 1: think that when she talks about the lack of trust
Speaker 1: in the system, that feels very personal to me. I've
Speaker 1: shared before on the show that I have a brother,
Speaker 1: my brother in brief, my brother a long time ago.
Speaker 1: He got the new Escalade when it came out with
Speaker 1: the big square headlights. So this is two thousand and
Speaker 1: she would I don't even know in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: there was three two and four somewhere in there. We're
Speaker 1: in there. So he had a new truck in California.
Speaker 1: And what happens when you in California is there's a
Speaker 1: lot of carjackings. You know, people that live outside of
Speaker 1: California may not know that. Our folks in San Diego,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they know that very well. So he ended up,
Speaker 1: as his his constitutional right, procuring a weapon to protect himself.
Speaker 1: Right now, what happens is a lot of times at
Speaker 1: that point, people start thinking, Okay, black man, gun criminal, right,
Speaker 1: this is my brother. Promise he's not a criminal. We
Speaker 1: were both raised by the same man, the same minister.
Speaker 1: You know, he just has a little bit more he's
Speaker 1: a little bit more comfortable with protecting himself with guns,
Speaker 1: and I just can't find that in me. Anyway. One night,
Speaker 1: he's at an apartment complex and some folks were messing
Speaker 1: with his girlfriend now his wife, and he took his
Speaker 1: gun out, shot it in the air a couple of times.
Speaker 1: It's on video right, shooting in the air. He ended
Speaker 1: up getting arrested for that. They tried him for attempted murder,
Speaker 1: and they gave him a plea deal, and he took
Speaker 1: the plea deal because it was a few years less
Speaker 1: than his sentence could have been, because somehow they decided
Speaker 1: that they weren't able to introduce that tape to the
Speaker 1: court as evidence. It felt very deliberate, and we lost
Speaker 1: a deck eight and a half or however long it
Speaker 1: was of my brother's life because of that. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like the same thing would have happened had
Speaker 1: my brother not been a black man. That it wasn't
Speaker 1: attempted murder. He was shooting in the air, the guys
Speaker 1: ran off, no one was hurt. There was literally no bloodshed,
Speaker 1: no harm, had nothing like that. And so that's the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system that I know that i've that has
Speaker 1: affected my family. This story checks out with the statistics
Speaker 1: that I know to be true that the criminal justice system,
Speaker 1: you know, unfairly treats black and brown folks. And now
Speaker 1: you're the listener, if you did not know that before,
Speaker 1: hopefully you have a little bit of insight into what
Speaker 1: that must be like. Again, not saying the black woman
Speaker 1: should not have been sentenced.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 1: That white privilege really does stick out right there in
Speaker 1: that example. Moving on, let's take it back one time.
Speaker 1: If you d DJ swirl, he wouldn't sir?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 4: This week the way black history fact was on deck
Speaker 4: last week, but as you said, we didn't make it
Speaker 4: to it. But we were talking about Uncle Tom. And
Speaker 4: most people have heard or use the term Uncle Tom
Speaker 4: when we referred to as sellout. But did you know
Speaker 4: the inference is totally wrong. The real Uncle Tom. Josiah
Speaker 4: Henson was a hero and abolitionist who helped slaves escape,
Speaker 4: among other great things. Born June fifteenth, seventeen eighty nine,
Speaker 4: he was an American laborer and clergyman who escaped slavery
Speaker 4: in eighteen thirty and found refuge in Canada, where he
Speaker 4: became the driving force behind the Dawn Settlement, a model
Speaker 4: community for former slaves. He was also involved in the
Speaker 4: Underground Railroad and has served as a model for the
Speaker 4: title character in Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin.
Speaker 4: In Canada, Henson became a leader among the growing number
Speaker 4: of fugitive slaves the Dawn Settlement. Its goal was to
Speaker 4: employ and educate former slaves, and a focal point of
Speaker 4: the settlement was the British American Institute, an industrial school.
Speaker 4: To secure financial backing for the community, Henson made a
Speaker 4: number of trips to the United States. In Great Britain,
Speaker 4: in eighteen fifty one, he was granted a personal audience
Speaker 4: with Queen Victoria. Henson's autobiography, The Life of Josiah Henson,
Speaker 4: was published in eighteen forty nine. It was subsequently reprinted
Speaker 4: under a variety of titles. Stowe cited the work among
Speaker 4: her sources for Uncle Tom's Cabin. On what would have
Speaker 4: been his hundredth birthday in nineteen eighty three, Henson became
Speaker 4: the first black person to be featured on a Canadian
Speaker 4: post stamp, and that comes from Britannica dot Com.
Speaker 1: Uncle Tom, who knew that? I mean really, I mean
Speaker 1: shout out to Beyonce and jay Z. Those were our
Speaker 1: Ebony Excellence picks for the week. But man, we could
Speaker 1: have put Uncle Tom in there. How funny would that
Speaker 1: have sounded?
Speaker 2: Initially?
Speaker 1: I think it would have got a chuckle, But.
Speaker 2: All of us are now more enlightened having heard the
Speaker 2: story of Uncle Tom.
Speaker 1: So for those who are uninitiated, I think Dave Chappelle
Speaker 1: said it best. Uncle Tom is a serious accusation in
Speaker 1: the black community. I think that's a direct quote from him,
Speaker 1: and he is not lying about that. Uncle Tom, for
Speaker 1: those that don't know, means a black person who is
Speaker 1: not about black people or a black agenda. Think of
Speaker 1: it like if you saw the movie Django Unchained with
Speaker 1: Jamie Fox and sam Samuel L. Jackson and Leo DiCaprio,
Speaker 1: which is a movie I recommend it's a dope movie.
Speaker 1: The Uncle Tom character would be Samuel L. Jackson's character
Speaker 1: right correct, And for those who haven't seen the movie,
Speaker 1: Samuel L. Jackson's character in the movie he serves the
Speaker 1: interests of the master of a slave plantation, of a
Speaker 1: cotton plantation where slaves are I guess employed is not
Speaker 1: the right word, but slaves are held. He's the person
Speaker 1: where whatever the master says he does, he's the most reliable,
Speaker 1: the most trustworthy to the master, and he would sell
Speaker 1: out the black slaves in a heartbeat. In fact, he
Speaker 1: doesn't even identify himself as a slave because he has
Speaker 1: a slightly more the word elevated position, that's it perfect
Speaker 1: than the rest of them. And it's interesting how that
Speaker 1: works in human psychology, because that's something that's true. We
Speaker 1: see that in the Republican Party. You know, as long
Speaker 1: as I'm doing a little bit better than them, I'll
Speaker 1: keep voting this way, you know, even if everything about
Speaker 1: it is wrong, you know, as long as I can
Speaker 1: see this one thing that I'm doing a little bit
Speaker 1: better than they are, you know. And so that's I
Speaker 1: think that's a function of human psychology. But in the
Speaker 1: black community, this Uncle Tom accusation means that you are
Speaker 1: not about your people, that you are not happy to
Speaker 1: be who you are, that you know, whatever, And it's
Speaker 1: very easy to brush up against it as a black
Speaker 1: person because you know, we share the world with our
Speaker 1: white brothers and sisters and and everyone. We share the
Speaker 1: world with everyone. We share the plan with animals and
Speaker 1: trees and you know everything else too. And because as
Speaker 1: a whole, black people have been very much harmed, not
Speaker 1: just in America but all over the world by white interests,
Speaker 1: by corporate interests. You know, we've we've been at the
Speaker 1: really at the tail end of you know, consideration of
Speaker 1: how what are the human implications and human costs of
Speaker 1: folks's actions or decisions or inactions or whatever. Oftentimes black
Speaker 1: people get the worst of it. Black people are particularly
Speaker 1: sensitive to perhaps other black people also taking away from
Speaker 1: them or profiting from them in a way that is
Speaker 1: not reciprocal or otherwise serving the interest of quote unquote
Speaker 1: the white massa. And so this is something that we
Speaker 1: tend to try to avoid. We try to stay away
Speaker 1: from it. You know, it affects you know, of course,
Speaker 1: our work life, it affects you know, what doesn't affect it.
Speaker 1: But it is something that black folks sometimes have to
Speaker 1: consider with romantic relationships. You know, if you're dating someone
Speaker 1: outside of your race, you know, that's something that you
Speaker 1: have to come up with you know, if you're a
Speaker 1: black person and you know you happen to fall in
Speaker 1: love with someone who doesn't look like you, you know
Speaker 1: there's something to be said about that as well. And
Speaker 1: so white folks aren't the only folks who have to
Speaker 1: be mindful of how hurt black people are. Black people
Speaker 1: also have to be mindful of how hurt black people
Speaker 1: are and how certain actions and things affect or look
Speaker 1: to the black community. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: we try to avoid when, you know, plotting our course
Speaker 1: through life is does this make me look like an
Speaker 1: Uncle Tom and holding a space like we do? You know,
Speaker 1: we particularly have to be sensitive to that because you know,
Speaker 1: there are some people who really want this show to
Speaker 1: be a very fiery show where we it's like in
Speaker 1: us versus them, And of course we've all decided that
Speaker 1: this show cannot be that it will never be that
Speaker 1: that's inconsistent with who we are as men. And we
Speaker 1: choose to see the world as though we share this
Speaker 1: planet with our brothers and sisters. And you know, our
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters don't look like us, They don't have
Speaker 1: the same experience as us, And as we have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to educate them, then we should and hopefully, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll grow together in our relationship with each other and
Speaker 1: find out a way to really make the most of
Speaker 1: our time together on this planet. So yeah, uncle.
Speaker 3: Tom, I'm better for knowing that story, even though I
Speaker 3: don't think it's going to change the context and the
Speaker 3: meaning of people using that term moving forward.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I just I knew you didn't
Speaker 1: want to say anything, so I just left you off.
Speaker 2: What I was supposed to say. I don't know why
Speaker 2: you did that. No, no, No, I knew.
Speaker 1: I knew.
Speaker 2: I thought you might have won. It wasn't that I
Speaker 2: didn't want to say anything. I just didn't know that
Speaker 2: there was anything more to say.
Speaker 1: No, that's fair. That's fair anyway. I think that'll do
Speaker 1: it for us today on Civic Cipher. So once again,
Speaker 1: I'm your host rams this Jah they call me q
Speaker 1: Ward show produced by a producer DJ Swirl, And Oh,
Speaker 1: I did want to mention that there's a couple of
Speaker 1: things that we didn't get to this week that we
Speaker 1: want to get to next week, not the least of
Speaker 1: which is the I want to really get into the
Speaker 1: story where the the critical race theory teachings now the
Speaker 1: teachers are being fined, and then there's another story about
Speaker 1: the police now able to sue protesters, but we'll get
Speaker 1: into that next week. Until then, please plug in with
Speaker 1: the show. We are on the internet hit civiccipher dot
Speaker 1: com or on all social media media at Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: and of course you can download this in all previous
Speaker 1: episodes at civic scipher dot com. And if you can
Speaker 1: make a donation, it really helps the show grow. And
Speaker 1: I think that'll do it for us. All till next week, y'all, please.
Speaker 4: Thank Yeah.
Speaker 5: Like yo, we had the li these presence of fabulous
Speaker 5: ladies showing you where bomb travel List will speak to
Speaker 5: you from sunlight to move, bustling on stage like gonna fight.
Speaker 1: Move my mic back. You're like that journal List, journal
Speaker 1: List too.
Speaker 5: We can strike back borders with waters from head, borders
Speaker 5: behind in the beline side step and the borders the
Speaker 5: press passage.
Speaker 1: We bring it to you as it happens. The streets
Speaker 1: love pop to them from the music and.
Speaker 5: Wrapping the street compan to slash. We expando Ben to
Speaker 5: fight this lending