WEBVTT - Part Two: The Naturopathic Doctor Who Bombed a Plane

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<v Speaker 1>Also media, Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>That you're listening to. You're aware of what's happening. You

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<v Speaker 2>know that this is a show that we do. You

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<v Speaker 2>know what else? What else need I say? Bad people?

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<v Speaker 2>We talked to you about them? How are you doing today,

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<v Speaker 2>Brandy Posey our guest.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm doing good. Just with my one name.

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<v Speaker 2>Over here, I give you two names?

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<v Speaker 4>What Oh no, no, no, I'm I'm thinking about our person

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<v Speaker 4>we've been talking about in the last episode and this

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<v Speaker 4>oh yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, singular name that people know you by. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've been keeping notes on just.

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<v Speaker 2>Because look at what they've taken from us, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>look at what they've taken from us exactly heartbreaking. You

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<v Speaker 2>know what's not heartbreaking?

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<v Speaker 5>That woman taking all of uh where they where?

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<v Speaker 2>They ended last episode with that lady like turning pigs

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<v Speaker 2>around on him. His fucking marry you and then take

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<v Speaker 2>all your money scams amazing stuff she.

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<v Speaker 3>Said, Carnival style. Fuck you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's she's so cool.

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<v Speaker 3>She love a queen.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, do you think he have to stand?

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think at any point any of them were

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<v Speaker 3>like set a different name or he like reacted to

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<v Speaker 3>a different name, Like, was anybody aware of how many

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<v Speaker 3>scams he's running?

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<v Speaker 2>I think he did a lot because he gets caught constantly. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think he's a very smooth operator. And he

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<v Speaker 2>kind of treats it like tag like when the cops

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<v Speaker 2>finally he'll run, but if the cops actually get him,

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, okay, you got me, you got me,

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<v Speaker 2>Come on, you got me. Guys like yeah, it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's funny. But he'll also like cop to everything that

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<v Speaker 2>he's done, which is weird. He's like a weird kind

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<v Speaker 2>of criminal. Today. He would have just gone to prison

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<v Speaker 2>forever after his first crime, and we would have been

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<v Speaker 2>deprived so much comedy and also maybe a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people's deaths. I don't know. So Spears is livid when

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<v Speaker 2>Laura flips the script on him and betrays him, even

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<v Speaker 2>though this is nothing more than he'd done to at

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<v Speaker 2>least like, I don't know, like a half dozen women

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<v Speaker 2>at this point. It's kind of hard to say, like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of women. His biographer Jerry Jamison, author of

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<v Speaker 2>Vanishing Act, notes humiliated and mortified at being duped and

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<v Speaker 2>outplayed in his own games, Spears would redirect all of

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<v Speaker 2>his energy from spontaneous and short lived crimes forgery, theft, mail, fraud,

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<v Speaker 2>and larceny towards more substantial long cons Now, somehow, probably

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<v Speaker 2>just by reading newspapers and magazines, he'd become aware of

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<v Speaker 2>a real millionaire playboy named Oscar el Delano. The real

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<v Speaker 2>Oscar Delano or whatever was rich as hell and an

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<v Speaker 2>absolute psychopath. Right, He's like a Jay Gatsby type, but

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<v Speaker 2>the most like crazy, creepy, soulless version of that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of guy. And he lives out in Connecticut. Right, So

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<v Speaker 2>he's real enough that you can find news articles mentioning

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<v Speaker 2>this guy that you can use to bolster your claims

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<v Speaker 2>that like, no, I'm a real dude, and I'm worth

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<v Speaker 2>fifty million dollars. How are much money this guy's worth? Right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like spears can prove that there is a real rich

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<v Speaker 2>guy with that name, but far enough, like he's never

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere near Connecticut, so he feels pretty confident. No one's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna call me on my bullshit if I pretend to

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<v Speaker 2>be this guy. And by this point he's traveling around

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<v Speaker 2>like the South and the Midwest, and he's doing what's

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<v Speaker 2>called he called the convention grift, right. So the Roaring

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<v Speaker 2>twenties are a time when there's a lot of different

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<v Speaker 2>fraternal clubs and professional organizations. That's really starting to be

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<v Speaker 2>a major factor in American life. You know, this isn't

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<v Speaker 2>quite the first time, but it's sort of coming into

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<v Speaker 2>like this is when that peaks for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that being a really common thing? And there's all

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<v Speaker 2>these in person meetups at resorts and fancy hotels around

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<v Speaker 2>the country for different like fields, professional fields, and as

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<v Speaker 2>with modern conventions, people who attend these things are there

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<v Speaker 2>to get drunk and socialized, and you're supposed to people

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<v Speaker 2>to trust, you know, your brothers in fraternal organizations like

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<v Speaker 2>the Freemasons, or your colleagues if you're like, oh didn't

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever, and so attendees have their guard down. They're

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<v Speaker 2>not prepared to like be victimized by someone when they're

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<v Speaker 2>in this situation. And so Spears playing Delano will meet

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<v Speaker 2>people game their trust, pretending to be this eccentric rich

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<v Speaker 2>guy and then ask them about their lives. Like he's

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<v Speaker 2>quizzling them about details about their family and like what

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<v Speaker 2>life is like back at home, because he wants to

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<v Speaker 2>get enough detail to impersonate them over the phone, and

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<v Speaker 2>then he heads back to his hotel room, generally while

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<v Speaker 2>the person he's met was still drunk and partying, and

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<v Speaker 2>he'll like call home to their wife and he'll either

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<v Speaker 2>pretend to be them if he thinks he can get away,

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<v Speaker 2>or he'll be like, oh my god, your husband's been

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<v Speaker 2>arrested by some crooked local cop and I need the

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent of like five to ten thousand dollars in modern

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<v Speaker 2>money to bail him out, right, Like I can, we

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<v Speaker 2>can get him out of jail, but these these crooked

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<v Speaker 2>local cops and whatever small town this convention's in, they're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to let him free unless we come up with,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, thousands of dollars the equivalent of thousands of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>And this works a lot more often than you need, guess, right,

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<v Speaker 2>although maybe not more then you'd guess, because one of

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<v Speaker 2>the more popular scams right now is an AI version

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<v Speaker 2>of the same thing, where like scanners, scammers will find

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<v Speaker 2>gen z or millennial people who have like too many

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<v Speaker 2>videos posted with their face and voice, and they'll use

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<v Speaker 2>AI to fake that person's voice and then call like

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<v Speaker 2>their grandma and be like, Grandma, I've been kidnapped. You

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<v Speaker 2>got to send these guys money or they'll kill me,

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<v Speaker 2>and then Grandma wires ten grand to whatever fucking scammer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, problem right now.

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<v Speaker 4>I told my dad it's a big We need to

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<v Speaker 4>have a family safe word. If it doesn't sound like me.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a very good idea if you've got especially elderly

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<v Speaker 2>relatives that you're worried about my convictimized by something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>But Spears is doing the analog version of this. He's

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<v Speaker 2>really on the ground floor, and he gets away with

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<v Speaker 2>this for like two years. He gets more ambitious as

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<v Speaker 2>time goes on, and he decides to gather a group

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<v Speaker 2>of young female sex workers together to crash the nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>twenty six Freemason convention in Saint Louis, which sounds awesome. Initially,

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<v Speaker 2>the cops think he's running a brothel because he's got

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<v Speaker 2>so many girls coming and going at all hours the night.

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<v Speaker 2>But what these girls are doing is they're each meeting

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<v Speaker 2>people at this convention and getting all the information so

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<v Speaker 2>that like Spears can call their family and do the

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<v Speaker 2>con right. Like, they're gathering marks for him basically, or

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<v Speaker 2>people whose families will be the marks. That way, he

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<v Speaker 2>can automate the process because it's a numbers game. You

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<v Speaker 2>want to make as many calls as possible and the

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<v Speaker 2>hope that you can trick you know, a handful of

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<v Speaker 2>people a day, right and get and get money coming in.

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<v Speaker 2>So the cops actually, yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Massive adrenaline. The adrenaline junkiness of this guy is like that,

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<v Speaker 4>I think is like what it is. It's chasing that like, ooh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>that feeling has got to be crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>He's getting high off of this, Yeah, definitely, Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that makes a lot of sense. So this actually, he

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<v Speaker 2>gets busted when he's in Saint Louis not because of

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<v Speaker 2>the actual crime he's doing, but because the cops think

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<v Speaker 2>he's running a brothel basically, and so they bust into

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<v Speaker 2>his hotel room and they find him quote, entertaining multiple

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<v Speaker 2>ladies in one bed who were wearing merely skimpy night

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<v Speaker 2>clothing and claim to be spending the night only after

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<v Speaker 2>missing their right home. I think they're just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's handsome, he's handsome and charming, and these ladies are

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<v Speaker 2>in on the crime, right, so why not trust him?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I doubt he paid reliably, I gotta say so. The

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<v Speaker 2>cops give up on busting him after they fail to

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<v Speaker 2>find any evidence of a crime, because they're not very

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<v Speaker 2>good at their jobs and they think that something very

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<v Speaker 2>different is going on from what's actually going on. But

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<v Speaker 2>Spears is too greedy and impulsive to take full advantage

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<v Speaker 2>of this, and he's he's kind of incapable of taking

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<v Speaker 2>like this is a message from the universe, and like

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<v Speaker 2>back off, try a new town. Instead, he continues to

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<v Speaker 2>operate an entirely separate con at the same time that

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<v Speaker 2>the Freemason conference is going on, and this one is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more evil, I guess, because he didn't think

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<v Speaker 2>he'd get enough money from working the convention, So Spears

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<v Speaker 2>placed a bunch of ads prior to showing up at

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Louis, a bunch of ads for manufacturing jobs in

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<v Speaker 2>the local yellow pages, claiming that like, we're a new company,

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<v Speaker 2>we're opening a factory in this town, and we're so

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<v Speaker 2>desperate for skilled workers we're willing to pay like thirty

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<v Speaker 2>percent above market wages, like way more money than people

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<v Speaker 2>are used to and you know, times are tough, that

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty six is a good time for some of

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<v Speaker 2>the country economically, but a lot of working people are suffering,

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<v Speaker 2>and so a lot of folks like respond to these

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<v Speaker 2>ads because they need work and this seems like great

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<v Speaker 2>paying work. And when they show up. Anyone who shows

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<v Speaker 2>up for a job interview at Spears's hotel room gets

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<v Speaker 2>hired immediately. But then they get told you have to

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<v Speaker 2>pay a broker fee up front. This is just money

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure you actually show up for your first

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<v Speaker 2>day of work, you know, because we got to like

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<v Speaker 2>buy some stuff to get things set up for you.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't want you to run out on us. So

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<v Speaker 2>this makes sure you can lock down the job for yourself,

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<v Speaker 2>per the contract that he presented them with. To qualify

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<v Speaker 2>for this connection, you must have personality, first class references

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty five hundred dollars in cash is a fully

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<v Speaker 2>refundable shirty fee. This is a real bonified proposition and

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<v Speaker 2>we invite the strictest investigation of our firm by all

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<v Speaker 2>interested parties. This is a one time offer. This ad

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<v Speaker 2>will not appear again now to allow for that's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of money for money today.

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<v Speaker 3>This time has got to be crazy. That's like all

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<v Speaker 3>you have probably.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and people are going into debt to put this up.

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<v Speaker 2>They're getting loans from their friends and their family, Like

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<v Speaker 2>people are endangering their families in order to afford this

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<v Speaker 2>down payment.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically, well, now I don't like him, and I did, and.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I'm not. He frames himself as a Robin Hood

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<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't rob a lot of rich people, but

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<v Speaker 2>he robs a lot of working people too. Anyone who's

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<v Speaker 2>like trying to show up for a factory job that's

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<v Speaker 2>advertising the Yellow Pages isn't someone who can afford to

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<v Speaker 2>lose the money, right. Yeah. Now, in that ad he

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<v Speaker 2>noted that like we allow for the strictest investigation. What

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<v Speaker 2>that means is the ad had a phone number for

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<v Speaker 2>the company operating the factory, and you could call and

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<v Speaker 2>they would confirm, yep, we're a real company, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>really these are real job offers. Now, what's actually going

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<v Speaker 2>on is that the number is the phone number to

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<v Speaker 2>the room next to where Spears is staying in the hotel,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's working with a separate grifter. He takes on partners, period,

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<v Speaker 2>so he's got a partner who's manning the line, and

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<v Speaker 2>when people call, his partner's like, oh yeah, real business

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity for sure. Now we're talking about like nineteen twenty six.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a beautiful time to carry out a scam

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<v Speaker 2>like this. People are still getting used to phones. Phones

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<v Speaker 2>are not like people learned over how weird a phone is.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you give someone a phone number and say

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<v Speaker 2>this is the headquarters of a big company that wants

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<v Speaker 2>to hire you, most people, if the number works, aren't

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<v Speaker 2>going to look more into it. Why would they? Who

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<v Speaker 2>else would have a phone? No one could fake having

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<v Speaker 2>a phone line, you know, that's not like that hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>really people aren't aware of the possibilities for cons yet

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<v Speaker 2>they're more trusting. Of course, you can only run a

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<v Speaker 2>scam like this for so long before somebody calls the cops,

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<v Speaker 2>which is why Spears bribed hotel employees to warn him.

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<v Speaker 2>If the police showed up, he escaped on time. For

0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.080
<v Speaker 2>this time, he doesn't get caught immediately, but the Saint

0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.040
<v Speaker 2>Louis Police put out an APB that also kind of

0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.600
<v Speaker 2>doubles as like a dating app. Description for our friend

0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.720
<v Speaker 2>here describes Oscar Delano, which remember is the name Robert

0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.240
<v Speaker 2>is working under now, as quote good looking, a flashy dresser,

0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.640
<v Speaker 2>well groomed, tall and fair, and a favorite with the

0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.600
<v Speaker 2>opposite sex. Like work harder to get This guy laid

0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.240
<v Speaker 2>god fucking Saint Louis police con man.

0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, his like yeah, his dating profess, all of his

0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:26.040
<v Speaker 4>wanted posters just in one place, just like like.

0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.760
<v Speaker 2>One of those old FBI like tip line things for

0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.080
<v Speaker 2>the UNI bomber that was, like, we suspect he fucked

0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.400
<v Speaker 2>really well, like crazy good dick game.

0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly where are.

0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.400
<v Speaker 2>You talking about this? Why does that.

0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.839
<v Speaker 3>Matter to play for day robin people?

0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Why don't care if he's a We don't care if

0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:51.520
<v Speaker 2>he's dating people. Well, So, for his part, Spears fled

0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.160
<v Speaker 2>right away with the money and relocated to Kansas City,

0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.120
<v Speaker 2>where he invented a new and much more racist name

0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.520
<v Speaker 2>for himself. Again, it's the twenties, so he's starts going

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.640
<v Speaker 2>under the name Eastern Mystic kegab jipterm, which I think

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.800
<v Speaker 2>is you know, he's kind of meant to reference the

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.600
<v Speaker 2>slur for a specific group of people. The roma right

0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.240
<v Speaker 2>per the book, self styled the International Man of Mystery,

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.440
<v Speaker 2>with robes, bejeweled headgear, crystal ball and the whole shebang,

0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.240
<v Speaker 2>was cashing in on doling out health and financial advice

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>to the concerned incredulous. His advice to all clients just

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 2>happened to involve spanning the coffers of Guru jipterm right

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 2>now that is this show says, the first time he's

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.840
<v Speaker 2>going to show like an interest in like healthcare stuff

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and like selling people diagnoses and like treatments for ailments

0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.560
<v Speaker 2>that they've got. But he's flying too close to the

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.400
<v Speaker 2>sun here. He is wanted in multiple states at this point,

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.840
<v Speaker 2>and every news article about him makes a point of

0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.839
<v Speaker 2>discussing how hot he is, which turns him into a

0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Robin Hood figure, only without the whole giving to the

0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 2>poor after robbing the rich thing. And also, you know,

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 2>he's not just robbing the rich, but he gets kind

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.280
<v Speaker 2>of famous. And that's bad for staying like hidden under

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 2>the radar if you're continuing to commit crimes pretending to

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:10.640
<v Speaker 2>be a some vaguely like ambiguously foreign spiritual guru. So

0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>this period of grifting fell apart for Spears. Right as

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.320
<v Speaker 2>he was doing yet another convention con in Topeka, he

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.679
<v Speaker 2>telegrams the wife of a conference attendee, missus George Jarvis,

0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.600
<v Speaker 2>and asks for money and is like, you know, I've

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 2>got your husband. He's you know, he's in jail, but

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.959
<v Speaker 2>I've got to bail him out, and or I think

0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 2>in this case, he is pretending to be her husband. Right,

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 2>he's like doing a reasonably good impression of his voice,

0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 2>but it's not perfect. So this lady gets suspicious and

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.720
<v Speaker 2>she sends the money. She telegrams it to him, but

0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.040
<v Speaker 2>she sends it with a note for the telegram operator

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 2>that says George Jarvis is bald. So Spears shows up

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 2>pretending to be Jarvis to pick up this money that

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 2>is this other guy's wife is sent but the operator

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 2>is like, this guy's supposed to be bald, he obviously

0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 2>has hair. The clerk calls the cops, and that's it, right,

0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>he's busting sense.

0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 3>His luscious locks gave him away, his.

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Beautiful, gorgeous hair, his sexy, sexy hair, gottam in trouble

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 2>yet again, now one of the most interesting. Again. Every

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>time he's caught, he has a habit of like praising

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.719
<v Speaker 2>the police, been like, good work, you guys really did

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>a good job getting me down this time and admitting

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 2>defeat and admitting to all of his crimes. And this

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.760
<v Speaker 2>is probably a bad idea from a criminal defense standpoint, Yeah,

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>but it helps burnish his reputation because a lot of

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 2>local press. He's always saying like, well, you know, for

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 2>the two weeks that I was committing this crime spree,

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I made fifty thousand dollars or something like that, right,

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 2>and the press will get to write about that, and

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>it makes this guy's legend grow, right, he kind of is.

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 2>It's just he's is sort of turning himself into a

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 2>little bit of a mythological figure during this period of time.

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of money in writing about him.

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, does he have cooling down periods to spend any

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 4>of this money because he's making a lot of it,

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 4>but like.

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think he think a lot of it does

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>get captured, but I think he's spending it. He likes

0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 2>to stay in fancy hotels, he only wears nice clothes.

0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 2>He drives exclusively like nice like fancy car. You know,

0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 2>he's living large because he knows he's not gonna stay

0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 2>free long and he give a time.

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Got it? That makes sense?

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 4>Does anybody tie this guy to Clyde? Is that connection

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 4>ever made at this point?

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 3>It is his life?

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, not usually at this well no, Actually, some of

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 2>the people do report on this. He's well known enough

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 2>that people are usually saying, you know, like Robert Spears,

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 2>who went by this name and this name and this name,

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>or whatever name he gets caught under. It's usually obvious

0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 2>his other that this is the same guy, because all

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 2>of his crimes are pretty similar. So Spears pled guilty

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 2>to wire fraud in March of nineteen twenty seven and

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>was sent to Levenworth Federal Penitentiary, where he remains for

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 2>about eighteen months. By this point, he's in his late twenties,

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 2>and Robert is probably feels like he's too old to change, right, Like,

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not. I've gotten this far as a con man.

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna stay at cod man no matter what am

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I gonna do?

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 3>Get a job?

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Not so. Once he gets out of Levenworth, he goes

0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.880
<v Speaker 2>right back to Conning and petty theft, and soon enough

0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.920
<v Speaker 2>finds himself behind bars again, this time in Missouri State

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>at Tenterie. He meets another inmate there, Ollie Thompson. Now

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Ollie had just been arrested for the first time, and

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 2>his real name was not Ollie Thompson. His real name

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 2>was William Allan Taylor, and he's a con man. He

0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.640
<v Speaker 2>comes from like a good family, but he just kind

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.120
<v Speaker 2>of gets into the con man life, I think, because

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want to work a real job and it

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.120
<v Speaker 2>gets him in trouble. Eventually he runs out on at

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.600
<v Speaker 2>least one wife and kids by the way, during this

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>period of time, but he and Spears become friends behind bars,

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>and Taylor kind of worships Spears. Like the vibes between

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 2>these two, you should read is like fifty percent the

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 2>wet bandits from home alone and Taylor is Marv for sure,

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.800
<v Speaker 2>like he's the dummy and fifty percent like a cult

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of two where where our boy is the cult leader,

0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Robert Spears whatever name he's going on, is the leader,

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>and Taylor is the follower because Taylor is absolutely devoted

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 2>to this.

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 3>Guy, true henchman, henchman, a true.

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 2>He's a true henchman. And for like seven or eight years,

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.480
<v Speaker 2>these guys are traveling the country. They're conning the shit

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 2>out of people, and it's all the same stuff that

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 2>we've been talking about, Like they're running different versions of

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.320
<v Speaker 2>all of these kind of cons. They make a lot

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of money. They also get in trouble several times and

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.679
<v Speaker 2>ultimately get locked up together for like a year or so,

0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 2>and they get out in like nineteen forty, and al

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Taylor is like, it's been almost ten years. I feel

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.679
<v Speaker 2>like I'm done traveling around the country grifting like this

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.159
<v Speaker 2>is just an exhausting way to live. And I loved

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>it and I love you, but I just don't have

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.200
<v Speaker 2>it in me anymore. So he bids a fond, sad

0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 2>farewell to his friend and he moves back home to Tampa,

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 2>where he eventually marries a young woman, Alice may Steele Henry,

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 2>who has no idea that he has like two I

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.439
<v Speaker 2>think it's two previous families, or that he's been crisscrossing

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the country as a con man for most of the

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 2>last decade. He just hides this from her. She doesn't

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>find out until after he dies that any of this

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 2>was happening to him.

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh No, imagine marrying.

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Someone in for ten years they were a con man

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 2>and just never say a word of it to you.

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm just gonna add that to the first eight questions.

0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 4>I think you're going to be, like, are you a

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 4>were you.

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 2>A con man for ten years? Did you rob people

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 2>at conventions for like a decade?

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.280
<v Speaker 3>I just need to ask this And those might sound silly,

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 3>but I just gotta know.

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 2>How many marriages. Have you had? How many kids did

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you abandon before we met? These are all questions to

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:20.679
<v Speaker 2>ask folks.

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 2>When he and his wife getting married, Taylor invites Robert

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Spears to the wedding because again he worships this guy,

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 2>but Spears is unable to show because by that point

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.359
<v Speaker 2>he is doing a four year bid in Oklahoma State

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.919
<v Speaker 2>Penitentiary for you Guessed It check fraud is around nineteen

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 2>forty two.

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.440
<v Speaker 3>Only Body Guy.

0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.920
<v Speaker 2>He and Al had split up after doing time together

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.359
<v Speaker 2>in Maryland in nineteen forty when Al leaves for Florida,

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 2>they get out of like a prison in Maryland and

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Al goes down to Florida and Robert moves to Minnesota, where,

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.840
<v Speaker 2>per the book Vanishing Act, he heard the new art

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.000
<v Speaker 2>of naturopathy was beginning to take hold. Now, I wouldn't

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 2>say it was beginning in this period of time, like

0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the early twenties, is kind of when interest seems to

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.920
<v Speaker 2>peak early in the mid twenties, but it's pretty popular

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.520
<v Speaker 2>in that area in this period of time, in like

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the early forties, and so he's kind of finds himself

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.639
<v Speaker 2>interested in this, you know. Author Jerry Jamison writes, always

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>attracted to the medical field for its inherent status. He

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>wanted to learn more and felt it was a good

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.200
<v Speaker 2>place to reinvent himself once again, possibly even goes straight.

0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>But he doesn't do this right away. He starts thinking,

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe a naturopathy, Maybe that's like a way

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.639
<v Speaker 2>I could kind of get out of this lifestyle. But he,

0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.879
<v Speaker 2>at least initially, the first career he goes for when

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 2>he's trying to make it legitimately is he becomes a journalist.

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.199
<v Speaker 2>You can still make money doing that back then, and

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 2>he like has some articles published for a local Methodist paper,

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.040
<v Speaker 2>and he's fairly popular in town. He's like a pretty

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 2>well known like Methodist reporter in the town where he's living.

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.560
<v Speaker 2>His landlady at the Times later said, I never saw

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 2>him go to church. He just wrote about church people.

0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 2>And for a while this seems to be like he

0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.439
<v Speaker 2>seems like he's turned a new leaf. He's making legitimate money,

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 2>and he's like starts to have a reputation in town.

0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.280
<v Speaker 2>People notice that Bob's really charismatic. He gets asked to

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.359
<v Speaker 2>liver sermons at church and speeches over the radio for

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 2>like the Methodist community, because people are like folks like

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.440
<v Speaker 2>listening to him talk. You know, he's got a good

0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.920
<v Speaker 2>pattern and it kind of think, you kind of think

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe he might turn things around. That's not what's gonna happen.

0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>But you know who else will never turn themselves around?

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:28.200
<v Speaker 5>The sponsors that support this podcast never.

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Question never, absolutely not. They will never learn from their mistakes.

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Number one of which is sponsoring my podcast. Thank you

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 2>all for your money, And we're back. So yeah, we're

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about Robert Spears, who's trying to make a

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.760
<v Speaker 2>go of it in Minneapolis. You know, he's writing for

0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the Methodist papers. He's become a figure in his community.

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 2>And he meets a young woman, Foster, and she falls

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>in love with him. She's like thirty two, so she's

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.159
<v Speaker 2>a mature adult, but she doesn't seem to have ever

0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 2>considered questioning whether or not any of Robert's stories about

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 2>his previous life as a fighter pilot were true. And

0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 2>by this point, because he's working as a journalist, he

0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I was a war correspondent, and the

0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 2>opening stage is of World War two. You know, I've

0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.720
<v Speaker 2>been all over the world, all these exciting places and

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.400
<v Speaker 2>seeing all these horrible things. The two get married because

0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.200
<v Speaker 2>she just falls for this dude, and you can guess

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.119
<v Speaker 2>what happened next. You know what this guy's gonna do

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>when he gets married to a lady, He's gonna leave it, right,

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.479
<v Speaker 2>He is absolutely going to abandon this lady.

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 3>From the book.

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Of course, he's going to abandon her. That's his only

0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 2>move in relationships is abandoned them and rob them blind

0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 2>from the book self styled. Almost as soon as he

0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>signed the marriage license, Spears has started making other plans

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.880
<v Speaker 2>for California, a life that didn't include his intended bride, Benita.

0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 2>He answered an advertisement in the local paper from the Shirtzers,

0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:01.679
<v Speaker 2>who were traveling to the West and looking for a

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 2>paying passenger for the ride. Fifteen dollars secured a seat

0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.919
<v Speaker 2>in the back of the car. So this like family

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the Shirtzers, and there's like one other guy at Novak

0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.359
<v Speaker 2>who's paying for a ride in the car and he

0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.320
<v Speaker 2>pays fifteen bucks to get a ride to the coast. Now,

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 2>before he leaves, he's got to have some money for California,

0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>so he steals everything Benita has and makes off with

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:24.879
<v Speaker 2>like five hundred bucks, which is about eighty three hundred

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 2>dollars in modern money, right, that's like her savings. The

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 2>road trip with the Shirtzers starts off normally enough, but

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 2>the days in close quarters together soon wear on them,

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.879
<v Speaker 2>and Spears begins to get annoyed with the other passengers,

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 2>particularly Novak. They stop in Kansas City for a couple

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 2>of days and Spears visits his mother, who is dying

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and in a home at this point in time, And

0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:50.080
<v Speaker 2>we don't know what happens between them, but the meeting

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 2>goes very badly, and when it they reassemble, everyone can

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>tell that Spears is in a terrible mood, like I

0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 2>don't know what his mom says to him, but they

0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.439
<v Speaker 2>don't doesn't This is not like a happy reunion and

0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>last meeting between the two. So the car they get

0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.360
<v Speaker 2>back in the road and Spears is just just an

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.520
<v Speaker 2>awful person to be around. And when the car stops

0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 2>outside of Oklahoma City, he starts looking for his money

0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:16.679
<v Speaker 2>and he realizes that like the five hundred bucks that

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 2>he'd stolen from his latest wife is gone, and he

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.520
<v Speaker 2>immediately assumes that one of the other passengers, probably like

0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 2>the shirts are Boy or Novak, had taken it. Now

0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I might say that like, well, you just visited your mom.

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 2>The veteran thief and con woman. Yeah, maybe she robbed you.

0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 2>That's kind of that's kind of earthing one last ice

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:40.040
<v Speaker 2>from your mom.

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:44.240
<v Speaker 3>Just Matilda, just like reaching like a gnarled hand slowly

0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 3>towards his bags.

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Notice that, Yeah, robs his ass blind. I don't know

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 2>who stole his money. Maybe he just lost it the

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:55.160
<v Speaker 2>car with you.

0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 3>For the next like two thousand miles.

0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>They did it now, so there here's a fight, right.

0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 2>He gets incredibly angry and accuses Shirtzer and Novak of

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.040
<v Speaker 2>taking his money. They deny it, and he goes crazy

0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.439
<v Speaker 2>and he pulls a thirty eight on them. He pulls

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.960
<v Speaker 2>a fucking gun, and he demands the driver, missus Shirtzer,

0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 2>pull over. This this whole crime is insane. I can't

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 2>wait to tell you about this.

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Brand man, I can't wait to hear it.

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Certainly, he makes her pull over to the side of

0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 2>the road so he can tie everyone up in a

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>cornfield and search them. Oh no, yeah, yeah, you have

0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.119
<v Speaker 2>now gotten kidnapped into a corn field. I want to

0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 2>read from Alan Logan's book. He used a small plank

0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 2>of wood to start digging a hole and threaten to

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>shoot to maim them, and then bury them alive. They said,

0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.160
<v Speaker 2>if they didn't return his four hundred and eighty five dollars,

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.120
<v Speaker 2>He got forty five dollars from Novak and fourteen from

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Young Shirtzer. They continue to deny all knowledge of his

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.160
<v Speaker 2>missing stash. Next, Spears shuffled them back into the car,

0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 2>all of them in the back seat. Bizarrely, they say,

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.479
<v Speaker 2>he then soaked a blanket with chloroform and placed it

0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>over them. He forced them to inhale until they lost consciousness.

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:11.120
<v Speaker 2>That's how this crime opens. By the way. Wow, yeah,

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.600
<v Speaker 2>it's fucking nuts. So this is one of the crazier

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 2>for a spur of the moment crime. And I wonder

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>was it really spur of the moment, because like he

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 2>had chloroform on him and a gun and something else

0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.720
<v Speaker 2>that we'll talk about. Maybe he was planning to do

0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 2>this from the jump, Maybe the money was a lie

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 2>to begin with. I don't know. But he is ready

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:34.160
<v Speaker 2>to chloroform and hold these people at gunpoint. So since

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>they're knocked out because he chloroform to blanket, he gets

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 2>behind the wheel and he's driving to the nearest town, Weatherford,

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and he says his plan is he's going to turn

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>these former traveling companions of his in to the cops

0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 2>for stealing the money that he'd rightfully stolen from the

0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:54.119
<v Speaker 2>wife that he just abandoned. Now unfortunately for him. I

0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you've ever had to chloroform somebody listeners,

0:25:57.800 --> 0:25:59.280
<v Speaker 2>brandy hands.

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 3>In the air. No, yeah, we'll see how the next

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:02.840
<v Speaker 3>few years ago.

0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.560
<v Speaker 2>We'll see. Look, if you can get your hands on

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 2>some chloroform. Du No, it does knock people out, but

0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't like reliably keep people out, like when you

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.160
<v Speaker 2>just sign a spray a blanket with it and throw

0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 2>it over their heads. Like apparently that's not I wouldn't

0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 2>have known, but apparently that's not a reliable way to

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:25.160
<v Speaker 2>keep people knocked out. And so his passengers wake up

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 2>and one of them tosses the drugged blanket onto spears

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 2>as he drives into Weatherford. So he's now and so

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 2>he loses control and he rams into a bunch of

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:41.320
<v Speaker 2>parked cars, but his vehicle keeps like rolling forward, and

0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 2>everyone starts fighting him for the gun while they'll they're

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.639
<v Speaker 2>all in the car, and they're all presumably still fucked

0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:52.000
<v Speaker 2>up on chloroform. So he's they're fighting and he has

0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.199
<v Speaker 2>the gun out as they're wrestling in with it. He

0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 2>fires three times during the fray. He hits Novak in

0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.199
<v Speaker 2>the head once but thankfully doesn't hurt him badly. He

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 2>hits the Shirtser boy I think, in the chest, but

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.359
<v Speaker 2>again doesn't wound him badly. And he also pistol whips

0:27:05.400 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 2>miss Shirtzer, although that may have been an accident, like

0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:09.639
<v Speaker 2>he may have just been because he was flailing and

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.440
<v Speaker 2>couldn't really see because he's got a gloroform blanket on him.

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Like he shoots himself through the hand during this fight.

0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Eventually happen, the car comes to a stop and our

0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:26.240
<v Speaker 2>boy hops out and fucking runs like the wind. Yeah,

0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it is unclear what his plan was at this stage,

0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:32.520
<v Speaker 2>but bystanders had seen the struggle. They hear the gunshots.

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>They see this car careening around town as he's fighting

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>for a gun with everyone else in the car, and

0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I think the crowd is just like, if there's one

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 2>guy fighting a family of like for a gun, probably

0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 2>the one guy is the bad guy. So they just

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.840
<v Speaker 2>start chasing him. This town in Oklahoma. Everyone starts running

0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:54.439
<v Speaker 2>after him as he's like trying to sprint away, and

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.479
<v Speaker 2>in response, Spears pulls a second gun out of his

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.480
<v Speaker 2>like whatever he's wearing at the time, and this one

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.360
<v Speaker 2>was a it was some form of tear gas launcher.

0:28:04.520 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>It's it's just described as a gun that shot tear gas.

0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:09.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's like a pepper ball gun or

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:12.359
<v Speaker 2>like a grenade launcher. But he tear gas is the

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:17.639
<v Speaker 2>whole town, the mayor. Tear gas is the mayor small town.

0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:19.639
<v Speaker 2>As he's trying to run away.

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:23.880
<v Speaker 3>Who is this man that just came.

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 2>This is Kao Moos day. We're just chilling in downtown

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 2>bump Fucksville, Oklahoma, and this guy gases everybody.

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sir, this is a Walmart.

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I gotta be cops to do that kind of shit

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.040
<v Speaker 2>to random people in the mayor in the middle of

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:46.480
<v Speaker 2>the day. Alan Logan summarizes how this all ends. It

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>was all just a big under misunderstanding, said Spears. The

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 2>tear gas gun was a product sample from his job

0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:54.880
<v Speaker 2>as a salesman of such wares. The chloroform was also

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:58.240
<v Speaker 2>a medicinal agent obtained legally from the druggist. Furthermore, he

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:00.160
<v Speaker 2>claimed that he had been robbed and was dry having

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the shirtzers in Novak to the authorities to alert them

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 2>of the crime. Spears was back in the headlines again.

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Two men shot, three anesthetized and wild thousand mile car. Right,

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 2>he makes so many good news stories.

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow, now those reporters were having a ball.

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Wait, but streaming out on that he did? What

0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 2>where do you get a tear gas gun?

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:25.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh, there's something new to write about, Thank god.

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:29.720
<v Speaker 2>One of my favorite just nonsense crime sprees. Absolutely gain

0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:33.479
<v Speaker 2>nothing from it. Now, nobody dies of their injuries, but

0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Spears could have been in that day. In those days

0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>in Oklahoma, first degree robbery was a capital offense, so

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>you could get the death penalty for first degree robbery.

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:47.320
<v Speaker 2>And honestly, he committed first degree robbery. Yeah, like that's

0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, man, when you got hear gas here

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 2>mayor to escape? Bro? Yeah, you horrorformed a whole family

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 2>and held him at gunpoint. You tried to shoot him.

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, man, I don't have a cornfield Jesus.

0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:06.720
<v Speaker 5>How long does he get does he go to what happens?

0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 2>He does go to prison. He gets a great defense attorney.

0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 2>He's really lucky with that. He gets a really good

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.280
<v Speaker 2>defensive attorney, and he's able to plead down to just

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:19.240
<v Speaker 2>four years in prison for second degree robbery. He enters

0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 2>prison in March of nineteen forty two, and when he

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>was asked to write down why he had been incarcerated,

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:31.440
<v Speaker 2>his answer was a single word framed, how you gassed them?

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, dude, you had the tear gas gun all the town.

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 4>The best case scenario is your extremely suss with the

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 4>tear gas gun.

0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>That's that's like why would you eat?

0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And the chloroform too, What was the why did

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:47.400
<v Speaker 2>you have all that chloroform?

0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.920
<v Speaker 2>I do. I kind of think he might have believed

0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 2>some of his own bullshit here, right, because and this

0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 2>is something that I think Logan points out, Spears doesn't

0:30:56.760 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>consider himself a stick up man, right. Armed robbery is growth.

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 2>It's like a nasty crime for nasty people. I'm not

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:07.680
<v Speaker 2>an armed robber. I'm a han man sent That's really

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:09.920
<v Speaker 2>how he sees himself. And I think this is just

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 2>he probably just had like a break, you know, between

0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 2>everything going on with his mom, and he's just not

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:16.480
<v Speaker 2>a very good person. But he's not proud of himself

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 2>for snapping, So maybe just he needs to convince himself

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 2>that this was all someone else did this. I don't know.

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't psychoanalyze this guy. It is interesting. Usually when

0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>he's caught, he honestly admits, this is what I did.

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:30.480
<v Speaker 2>And in this case he's like, I was Frank. I

0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:33.640
<v Speaker 2>was Frank the whole time, right, So maybe he really

0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 2>convinced himself that he had to defend himself. I don't know.

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 2>As was usually the case, he got out of prison early.

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:41.959
<v Speaker 2>He only serves half of a sentence due to good behavior.

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:44.600
<v Speaker 2>He's always really well behaved when he's behind bars, so

0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>he gets out early. So by the time he gets

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 2>out of prison for this latest crime spree, it is

0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the mid nineteen forties and he himself is pushing forty now.

0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 2>The life of a traveling con artist is not easy

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:59.000
<v Speaker 2>on your body, nor are repeated prison stints or shooting

0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>yourself in the hand and during a chloroform gun fight.

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.200
<v Speaker 2>As a general rule, most physicians avoid against advice against

0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:08.480
<v Speaker 2>getting into chloroform gun fights if you can.

0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you want to stretch, drink some water and vitamins.

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Will always be hydrated before a chloroform gunfight. Absolutely, yeah,

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Vitamin C. I always take that with that airborne stuff

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:21.880
<v Speaker 2>before I get into chloroform gunfights. The vitamin C really

0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>helps you overcome the chloroform. I assume I'm usually not

0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 2>aware of what I do in those mo What if.

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.200
<v Speaker 4>These are things that his mom gave him on the deathbed.

0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:32.520
<v Speaker 4>As she was stealing the money. She was like, I

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:36.400
<v Speaker 4>have this dear gas gun and this bottle of chloroform.

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Take this too, yeahs your this is the family chloroform. Yeah, exactly,

0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 2>my granddaddy and now it's your chloroform. Use it well.

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Incredible good stuff. So he decides I'm kind of getting old,

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm tired of getting arrested all the time. I need

0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>a new career, I need a new grift. And initially

0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 2>he's traveling around Texas during the oil boom, figuring there's

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>so much money flooding into the state. There's got to

0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 2>be a way for me to grift some of it.

0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 2>But he actually fails at this. He can't find a

0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:11.320
<v Speaker 2>way to make money off the oil boom, which is

0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.200
<v Speaker 2>amazing actually really hard not to in that period of

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 2>time in Texas. But as Jerry Jamison writes in the

0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:21.360
<v Speaker 2>book Vanishing act As, Spears was kind of traveling around

0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out a con He starts to notice something. Quote,

0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 2>an unusual number of clinics were popping up in every community,

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 2>large and small, urban and rural, that were curiously called

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>natural apathy medical centers. Spears was vaguely familiar with the term,

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:38.400
<v Speaker 2>as we'd not it up in Minneapolis. He'd become aware

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:41.160
<v Speaker 2>of it as a thing, But once he starts doing research,

0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 2>he realizes, oh shit, these guys have figured out a

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.320
<v Speaker 2>run around on the whole medical system. But becoming a

0:33:46.400 --> 0:33:50.320
<v Speaker 2>natura path you can't prescribe like the drugs a doctor

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>can totally, but you can prescribe treatments and diagnose diseases

0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:57.840
<v Speaker 2>to patients in like a lot of the United States,

0:33:57.840 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and the AMA can't really do anything about it.

0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 3>Out it.

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 2>So our man decides to move to Dallas because by

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:06.840
<v Speaker 2>the late forties, Dallas is the friendliest place in the

0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:09.719
<v Speaker 2>country for fake doctors. It is the it is the

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:18.320
<v Speaker 2>capital of the fake doctor world. Dallas, Texas well now Dallas.

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:20.759
<v Speaker 2>What's changed is now Dallas is like a major hub

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 2>for real and fake doctors, huge numbers of both in Dallas.

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Like Dallas the city of anyone who calls themself a doctor.

0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:32.279
<v Speaker 2>We don't care if you're selling bullshit or real medicine.

0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:35.000
<v Speaker 2>If you call yourself a doctor, Dallas is the city

0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:35.399
<v Speaker 2>for you.

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:37.680
<v Speaker 3>Eh.

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So for an idea of how inundated Dallas, Texas

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:45.240
<v Speaker 2>was with fake doctors, Harry Hoxy, who was a Dallas resident,

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.600
<v Speaker 2>had created a fake was a naturopath who created a

0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:50.799
<v Speaker 2>fake cancer cure that was so dangerous the AMA and

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.920
<v Speaker 2>the FDA labeled him the country's number one cancer quack.

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:56.439
<v Speaker 2>But Hoxy had made a shitload of money and he'd

0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>invested it in oil, which had allowed him to bribe

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:02.840
<v Speaker 2>local politicians to support the nascent movement of Christian fundamentalists

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.960
<v Speaker 2>who didn't believe in real medicine. That's a big thing

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 2>for Hoxy. And there's some other guys, some major like

0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:10.239
<v Speaker 2>super wealthy, like in cleaning the wealthiest man in the

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:12.239
<v Speaker 2>world at the time, who like live in and around

0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 2>the Dallas area, who were major advocates for like snake

0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 2>oil medicine. And so they're kind of like bribing elected

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:22.280
<v Speaker 2>leaders to make sure that Texas stays a friendly climate

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:23.160
<v Speaker 2>for this kind of shit.

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:26.800
<v Speaker 3>Is this like crossing with like Christian scientists.

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's Christian fundamentalism. Christian science is a different thing. Generally.

0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there are some Christian scientists mixed up in this,

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:39.080
<v Speaker 2>but it's not wholly based in that. In nineteen forty nine,

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.919
<v Speaker 2>Texas created a state Board of Naturopaths, who had meant

0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:45.080
<v Speaker 2>to monitor the field and ensure all practitioners were performing

0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:48.439
<v Speaker 2>ethically and were competent to do so. They announced new

0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:51.839
<v Speaker 2>requirements to call yourself a naturopathic doctor. First, you had

0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.400
<v Speaker 2>to have a college degree from a real school. And

0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:57.600
<v Speaker 2>second you had to have a state certified medical exam

0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:59.440
<v Speaker 2>in order to get licensed. Right, so you have to

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.640
<v Speaker 2>have a real and you have to pass a medical

0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:05.319
<v Speaker 2>exam before we'll call you a notchropathic doctor. That sounds okay, right,

0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Like give it the standards of the time.

0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:09.920
<v Speaker 3>That's not nothing, you know, that's that's not nothing. I

0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.239
<v Speaker 3>like that. It's like the high minded grifters or like

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:12.959
<v Speaker 3>we need to.

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Put some to put some guard rails on this. Yeah, however,

0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.200
<v Speaker 2>this is Texas, and if you grew up there like

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I did, you know the government isn't allowed to do

0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:28.040
<v Speaker 2>good things or even competent things. Now. These requirements thus

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.600
<v Speaker 2>had a loophole. Out of state naturopaths could present a

0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 2>license valid in any other state and pay fifty dollars

0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:37.640
<v Speaker 2>to be admitted to practice in Texas. So when Robert

0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Spears finds this out, he's like, all I gotta do

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:43.239
<v Speaker 2>is get a fake diploma and find another doctor to

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.920
<v Speaker 2>call me a doctor, right, So he finds a psychiatrist.

0:36:47.000 --> 0:36:50.040
<v Speaker 2>And this guy's a real psychiatrist, a pretty prominent one,

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 2>doctor Robert Reddick. He was like the psychiatrist for the

0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:56.319
<v Speaker 2>Manhattan Project, Like this is a major figure actually in

0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:59.680
<v Speaker 2>the field. But Reddick, after the Manhattan Project, had come

0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:02.560
<v Speaker 2>to work work at a statemntal hospital and it's just

0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:05.399
<v Speaker 2>horrified because it's a nightmare in there. He sees they're

0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>testing drugs on people, they're performing a lot of medical

0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:10.560
<v Speaker 2>operations without consent, They're doing a lot of horrible things.

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:14.879
<v Speaker 2>And he becomes both deeply cynical about like the mainstream

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.440
<v Speaker 2>medical establishment for good reason. There's a lot to be

0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:19.520
<v Speaker 2>cynical about if you're working at a state mental hospital

0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.279
<v Speaker 2>in the fucking forties. And he also becomes a whistleblower

0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.359
<v Speaker 2>and he tries to tell everybody about the illegal things

0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:27.800
<v Speaker 2>that are happening in this facility and other facilities around

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:30.359
<v Speaker 2>the country. Now, the other side of that is, as

0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 2>he's becoming increasingly angry at like the mainstream medical establishment,

0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:38.440
<v Speaker 2>he gets obsessed with natural cures, and one day he

0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:41.759
<v Speaker 2>just gets angry enough that he starts issuing medical licenses

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:43.839
<v Speaker 2>in the state of Maryland to anyone who will pay

0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.319
<v Speaker 2>him money, which is a weird way to go. I

0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 2>guess it's all bullshit. Look I'll show you. I think

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:52.359
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of his attitude. That makes sense.

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 3>It's like, watch how bullshit this actually is.

0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Look at how bullshit this is. Because I'm making it bullshit.

0:37:58.120 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to defend him on that.

0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:00.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah you do.

0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I have more understanding where like, yeah, that is, I

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:06.480
<v Speaker 2>get why you'd be really angry at everything after that

0:38:06.640 --> 0:38:11.040
<v Speaker 2>set of experiences. Yes, of course, so Spears cobbles together

0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:13.919
<v Speaker 2>like five grand worth of modern money and he gets

0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:16.920
<v Speaker 2>his license from doctor Reddick, and he gets that. Alongside

0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:19.280
<v Speaker 2>he has a diploma that's forged for him by another

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:23.080
<v Speaker 2>naturopathic doctor. And this doctor who forges his diploma had

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 2>previously just recently gotten arrested after providing a fatal botched

0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:30.280
<v Speaker 2>abortion and then providing poison. He'd also gotten in trouble

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.440
<v Speaker 2>but not convicted of providing poison, like I think it

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:36.200
<v Speaker 2>was fucking bacteria to a group of people who like

0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:38.720
<v Speaker 2>murdered this whole family of rich people and then adopted

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:40.960
<v Speaker 2>their son and eventually murdered him to like get the

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:44.400
<v Speaker 2>get the money basically like and he gives he provides

0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 2>them with the poison. So that's the doctor who gives

0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Spears his fake diploma. Spears takes the products of these

0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:54.360
<v Speaker 2>two august individuals and presents them to the naturopathic Board

0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:58.319
<v Speaker 2>in Texas. Overnight, he becomes a doctor. Now he's not

0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 2>an MD, but he starts writing his name out as

0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:04.759
<v Speaker 2>Robert Spears, MD, because who's gonna stop him? Right, like

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:08.280
<v Speaker 2>he's gonna stop me. He starts his practice in nineteen

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:10.480
<v Speaker 2>fifty and by nineteen fifty five he had gone from

0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:12.600
<v Speaker 2>being a newbie to one of the most successful and

0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:16.040
<v Speaker 2>famous naturopaths in the entire state and thus the whole country.

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:20.040
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck he is really good at this? Why

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:21.759
<v Speaker 2>being a fake doctor?

0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:25.000
<v Speaker 3>The guru bullshit of it all. I'm sure he's great

0:39:25.040 --> 0:39:25.360
<v Speaker 3>at it.

0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a confidence scheme and he's great at that.

0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:32.520
<v Speaker 2>He's a confidence man. Now, when you've got a group

0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:35.760
<v Speaker 2>of legal fake doctors who can hand out quote unquote

0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:38.759
<v Speaker 2>medicine as long as it's not the drugs real doctors prescribe,

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.239
<v Speaker 2>and you don't have to abide by any ethical standards.

0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:44.040
<v Speaker 2>People are going to primarily visit that doctor for one

0:39:44.040 --> 0:39:48.400
<v Speaker 2>of three things. To lose weight, to have an back alley,

0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:52.239
<v Speaker 2>or illegal abortion, and to cure an incurable disease. Right,

0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.279
<v Speaker 2>those are the three reasons people go to doctors like this.

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Either they just it's something cosmetic, it's not there's no

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 2>access to legal abortion, or a doctor has told them

0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:04.480
<v Speaker 2>we can't cure you and they don't want to believe that, right,

0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Those are the reasons people are going to these guys. Yeah.

0:40:06.760 --> 0:40:10.040
<v Speaker 3>Now, Spears people in a lot of ways. Yeah, yes, And.

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:12.320
<v Speaker 2>From what we know, at least I know, Spears seems

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to have not gotten too far into the third business.

0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:18.640
<v Speaker 2>He makes his money primarily selling weight loss treatments and

0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:23.600
<v Speaker 2>performing illegal abortions, right, or at least telling people he's

0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 2>performing illegal abortions. A lot of the times he's just

0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:29.319
<v Speaker 2>giving them bullshit and like nothing happens because again he's

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.920
<v Speaker 2>a con man, and they can't come after him because

0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:35.239
<v Speaker 2>it's illegal. You know, then they'd be admitting to having

0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:38.719
<v Speaker 2>committed a crime. Now his primary customer base are rich

0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 2>suburbanites who live in fancy neighborhoods like Highland Park in

0:40:41.640 --> 0:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the DFW area, which I think is still the wealthiest

0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:46.560
<v Speaker 2>suburb in the country. He would put together groups of

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 2>rich white ladies and he would hold presentations kind of

0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 2>like someone trying to sell their friends on an MLM,

0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 2>only he was mainly he was like pitching weight loss

0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:57.960
<v Speaker 2>cures primarily and some other quack remedies. He's got these

0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:00.920
<v Speaker 2>pills he calls b Slim Reducer pills, which I'm going

0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:04.120
<v Speaker 2>to guess we're just methamphetamine or amphetamine of some sort,

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:08.440
<v Speaker 2>or at least just pyrophedra concentrated. He's also got his

0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:13.840
<v Speaker 2>radionics machine, which uses electromagnetic waves to treat illnesses. Another

0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:16.719
<v Speaker 2>popular product among the Dallas Wine mom set was the

0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:20.920
<v Speaker 2>electro psychrometer, which Jamison describes as promising to quote, provide

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:23.239
<v Speaker 2>insights into the mental state of an individual and thus

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.520
<v Speaker 2>provide and much the same way as a licensed therapist

0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.520
<v Speaker 2>might some coping mechanisms for the triggers that cause weight gain.

0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:32.759
<v Speaker 2>So he's mostly selling all these ladies on these things

0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:36.640
<v Speaker 2>as cosmetics, right, that's the primary business, at least at

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:38.719
<v Speaker 2>the start of this, and he does very well. These

0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:42.399
<v Speaker 2>groups of high society ladies are really profitable. He calls

0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 2>them his milk routes. And he has a different group

0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:47.200
<v Speaker 2>of ladies that he'll go to every single day and

0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:50.840
<v Speaker 2>pitch to, and he brags at the time. By the

0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:53.800
<v Speaker 2>early to mid fifties, he's pulling in like four grand

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:56.319
<v Speaker 2>a month, which is about fifty thousand dollars a month

0:41:56.320 --> 0:41:59.279
<v Speaker 2>in modern money, and not a doctor. Spears was not

0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:02.000
<v Speaker 2>only popular with the rich ladies. In nineteen fifty four,

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:05.360
<v Speaker 2>he was named president of the Texas Naturopathic Association. So

0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.920
<v Speaker 2>he is running the whole association four years into his career.

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:11.560
<v Speaker 4>He's like, I see the top of that pyramid and

0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:13.760
<v Speaker 4>I want it.

0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:16.600
<v Speaker 2>And I want to be there. Yeah. Well, now, Spears

0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:20.520
<v Speaker 2>became hugely influential in the burgeoning field. His natural charisma

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:23.320
<v Speaker 2>and skillet lying made him the most interesting fake doctor

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 2>at any professional event. He was now attending of the

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:28.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of conventions he'd once robbed from At cocktail parties.

0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:30.920
<v Speaker 2>He would claim the scar from the gunshot wound on

0:42:30.960 --> 0:42:33.200
<v Speaker 2>his hand had been cast by a gardening accident.

0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:36.600
<v Speaker 3>Classic rake through the hands.

0:42:36.760 --> 0:42:38.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, ched myself bad.

0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:40.920
<v Speaker 3>But you couldn't heal that.

0:42:41.840 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>But you can feel that. Yeah, come on, man, I

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:45.439
<v Speaker 2>was way worse. You should have seen it. The whole

0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:46.040
<v Speaker 2>hand was gone.

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:47.839
<v Speaker 3>It used to be fair. This hand used to be

0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:48.360
<v Speaker 3>so fat.

0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:49.960
<v Speaker 2>This hand used to be fat as hell.

0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, look at it now.

0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Much of his popularity was due to the success of

0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:58.000
<v Speaker 2>his radionics machine, which briefly became a must have item

0:42:58.080 --> 0:43:02.560
<v Speaker 2>for suburban DFW housewives. And speaking of wives, Robert Spears

0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:05.880
<v Speaker 2>was about to get his first real one, Francis Massey.

0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:08.400
<v Speaker 2>She was the most similar to him out of all

0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 2>his wives except for the one who conned him. Before

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:14.080
<v Speaker 2>they met. Francis had gotten interested in bogus medicine and

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:16.200
<v Speaker 2>even taken a class in the use of the electro

0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:20.440
<v Speaker 2>psychometer in Waco. She decided this made her basically a professional,

0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:24.000
<v Speaker 2>and she started marketing herself as a licensed psychiatrist. After

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.759
<v Speaker 2>this point, she charged five dollars a treatment, which is

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.239
<v Speaker 2>like fifty dollars to day, and scammed enough people that

0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:32.600
<v Speaker 2>the FBI actually had a sizable file on her, totally

0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:35.120
<v Speaker 2>separate from the one on her husband. Here's how one

0:43:35.200 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 2>report from one of her patients recorded her work operating this.

0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:41.239
<v Speaker 2>I found this in Jamison's book, but this is from

0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:44.680
<v Speaker 2>an FBI report. In the summer of nineteen fifty six,

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I was directed to Francis Spears when I had a

0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:48.920
<v Speaker 2>nervous breakdown. She would take me to an upstairs room

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:50.520
<v Speaker 2>where she would have me lie on a day bed

0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:52.439
<v Speaker 2>and give me a handle type object on a cord

0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:54.560
<v Speaker 2>to hold in my hand. The cord was attached to

0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 2>some type of machine, but I don't think it was

0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:58.840
<v Speaker 2>plugged into an electrical outlet. She would tell me to

0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.320
<v Speaker 2>imagine I was in a mental institution and how terrible

0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 2>that would be, and tried to make me concentrate on

0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:06.239
<v Speaker 2>the absolute worst situations I could imagine. At the same time,

0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I had headphones on listening to a record with extremely

0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:10.919
<v Speaker 2>high pitched notes, and she said this would fix any

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:13.560
<v Speaker 2>sinus trouble I might have. After that, I determined that

0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:15.719
<v Speaker 2>Miss Spears was not competent to help me, and I

0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:16.480
<v Speaker 2>did not return.

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 3>Just like a touch of the MK.

0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and these devices, one of them that when it's

0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.719
<v Speaker 2>plugged in, it sounds like it's basically a galvanic skin

0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.080
<v Speaker 2>response measuring things, which is what an E meter is

0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:33.840
<v Speaker 2>like the scientologist. There's a lot of a lot of

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:37.439
<v Speaker 2>grifts who are kind of using the same like tools, right,

0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:42.160
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's not a surprise that Francis is this

0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 2>is gonna be a love connection for doctor Spears.

0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:46.680
<v Speaker 4>I wonder if he walked into her office and saw

0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:49.600
<v Speaker 4>that machine unplugged and was like, oh.

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:53.319
<v Speaker 2>Baby, this is a grifter who knows that a grift. Yeah,

0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:57.040
<v Speaker 2>they get hitched, and in an uncharacteristic move, Spears sticks around.

0:44:57.120 --> 0:44:59.720
<v Speaker 2>He buys a huge, fancy house for them in Dallas

0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:01.799
<v Speaker 2>and they they have like two kids together, I think,

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:04.280
<v Speaker 2>like and he actually sticks around to try to raise them.

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 2>So this is he has really made a change. Yeah,

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.720
<v Speaker 2>he's still a grifter, but he has he has shown

0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:13.480
<v Speaker 2>some growth here, Like he actually does care about this

0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:14.680
<v Speaker 2>last family of his.

0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 4>Well, and he's technically straight by the eyes of the

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.800
<v Speaker 4>quote Uno law like he has yeah, yeah.

0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:23.759
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's why he's able to function because

0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 2>he's still getting whatever kick conning people gives him, but

0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:29.800
<v Speaker 2>it's legal now and he's making a lot of money

0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:31.960
<v Speaker 2>and he's like partying with the mayor of Dallas, Like

0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.319
<v Speaker 2>he's holding Evince at his house that high society goes

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:37.840
<v Speaker 2>to he's a respected man For a while. Near the

0:45:37.920 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 2>end of nineteen fifty six, Spears started talking to his

0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:43.319
<v Speaker 2>friends and colleagues about his next scam, medical device, which

0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:46.000
<v Speaker 2>he described as quote an electronic machine which was for

0:45:46.040 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 2>the purpose of testing a single drop of blood and

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:51.680
<v Speaker 2>then from that test diseases could be ascertained. And that's right,

0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:57.000
<v Speaker 2>motherfucker's this guy invented farrahnos like sixty Yearslaney. It's the

0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:00.640
<v Speaker 2>same con and he had exactly as much real technology

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:01.800
<v Speaker 2>is therapous.

0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:04.879
<v Speaker 3>Did That's amazing? But how are you looking?

0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah he was, Yeah, I bet not nearly as good.

0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:14.600
<v Speaker 2>But he was doing the grift way before turtleneck Lady.

0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.200
<v Speaker 3>There ain't an original thought in this world anymore.

0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:20.880
<v Speaker 2>No, No, he was the last original thinker, Robert Spears.

0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:26.080
<v Speaker 2>So now because he's Robert Spears, he does start marketing

0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:28.720
<v Speaker 2>this gadget is being able to cure illnesses to writing.

0:46:28.800 --> 0:46:31.680
<v Speaker 2>The electrical impulses made by the machine could cure polio?

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:37.920
<v Speaker 2>What sir, s share, man, share you're polio? Why not? Bro?

0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Fuck it now? So far, nothing he's done as a

0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:43.799
<v Speaker 2>natural path is quite evil enough to like crass. It's

0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 2>bad but like, I wouldn't do a whole episode of

0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Behind the Bastards on this guy if he was just

0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:49.600
<v Speaker 2>yet another kind of grifter in an age in which

0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:53.319
<v Speaker 2>those were thick on the ground. That changes, and the

0:46:53.360 --> 0:46:55.279
<v Speaker 2>amount of harm he's doing is he gets more and

0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:58.760
<v Speaker 2>more into providing illicit abortions. Now, he first got connected

0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:01.120
<v Speaker 2>to that chunk of the field when he met another naturopath,

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Donald Loomis, at a convention in Saint Louis. Donald had

0:47:05.040 --> 0:47:08.239
<v Speaker 2>been previously a major fitness influencer of his day, and

0:47:08.280 --> 0:47:10.360
<v Speaker 2>like Hollywood, studios would for years bring him in to

0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.520
<v Speaker 2>help actresses cut weight or actors like put on muscle.

0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:17.360
<v Speaker 2>And then after that he becomes a naturopath and he

0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:19.719
<v Speaker 2>sort of uses his connections to become the go to

0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 2>abortion doctor for MGM studios. Like if MGM has a

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:28.200
<v Speaker 2>starlett who has an wanted pregnancy, they called Donald and

0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:30.680
<v Speaker 2>he takes care of this, and he's bribing the cops.

0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:33.800
<v Speaker 2>He's bribing everybody so it doesn't get in trouble. He

0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:37.000
<v Speaker 2>used appendicitis as a co word for pregnancy and an

0:47:37.000 --> 0:47:40.960
<v Speaker 2>appendectomy to refer to abortions. So many actresses were booked

0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:43.200
<v Speaker 2>for appendectomies in the late forties and early fifties that

0:47:43.239 --> 0:47:48.440
<v Speaker 2>appendicitis was described as a Hollywood epidemic. Jamison writes, Loomis,

0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 2>with a built in clientele and the impurmature of his employer,

0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:53.960
<v Speaker 2>quickly built up a lucrative business, even providing a mobile

0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:57.160
<v Speaker 2>service to the stars, arriving at the Beverly Hills Mansions

0:47:57.160 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>in his white paneled van. The health grew would show

0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 2>up for a purported work out, perform his duties, and

0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:04.320
<v Speaker 2>be on his way, receiving compensation from both the studios

0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:06.800
<v Speaker 2>and the patient, willing to pay well for his services

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:10.600
<v Speaker 2>and discretion. Thus, Loomis preferred abortionists to the rich and famous,

0:48:10.800 --> 0:48:13.560
<v Speaker 2>not only found himself wealthy, but in demand. Clark Gable,

0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:15.960
<v Speaker 2>it was once said, nearly kept Loomis busy on his

0:48:16.040 --> 0:48:19.600
<v Speaker 2>own little Clark Gable fact for you there.

0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Damn wrap it up, Clark.

0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not Clark's strong suit.

0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:28.000
<v Speaker 3>I no, not so much. We do.

0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:30.839
<v Speaker 2>On our second ad break, Sophie, we have not. Then,

0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:32.719
<v Speaker 2>why don't you all wrap it up and listen to

0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:42.960
<v Speaker 2>these ads and we're back. Yeah, we're talking about the

0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 2>abortionists to the stars now, Lewis, I think he's pretty

0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:48.000
<v Speaker 2>good at this. I don't think like in terms of

0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:51.040
<v Speaker 2>the health outcomes of his patients are pretty good, So

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not this is important background setting. Spears is going

0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 2>to be a lot less good at this, and there's

0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:00.680
<v Speaker 2>going to be a lot more negative consequence for the

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:04.560
<v Speaker 2>women that he's working on than like Loomis experiences. So

0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:07.200
<v Speaker 2>these two meet up at a convention in the fifties

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.839
<v Speaker 2>and Loomis takes Spears and another doctor named Tiska under

0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:13.799
<v Speaker 2>his wings and they perform an underground business, splitting up

0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:17.880
<v Speaker 2>the West and Southwest between their practices through the fifties

0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:21.080
<v Speaker 2>while he's like also a successful naturopath. The business booms,

0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:24.239
<v Speaker 2>but they start to get increasing police scrutiny on them,

0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:26.879
<v Speaker 2>and Spears is like, this doesn't seem safe. I want

0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:30.000
<v Speaker 2>to take a step back and keep selling fake medical

0:49:30.000 --> 0:49:32.920
<v Speaker 2>devices because that seems a lot safer and more reliable.

0:49:33.520 --> 0:49:36.960
<v Speaker 2>But then disaster strikes for him. So there's several high

0:49:36.960 --> 0:49:40.160
<v Speaker 2>profile deaths due to naturopaths in this period of time

0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:43.040
<v Speaker 2>in Texas because these people are selling fake medicine and

0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.360
<v Speaker 2>sometimes just poison as medicine, and the state is finally

0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:49.239
<v Speaker 2>stepping into regulate things like there's a real push to

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:52.399
<v Speaker 2>seriously regulate what a naturopath can do and who can

0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:56.360
<v Speaker 2>call themselves that. One of Spears's fellow doctors, Howard Harmon,

0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.560
<v Speaker 2>winds up recording the state representative behind this push in

0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:03.080
<v Speaker 2>a hotel because so this representative is trying to push

0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:06.120
<v Speaker 2>for like a more restrictive law, but he's basically open

0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:09.720
<v Speaker 2>to bribes, and he records. Harmon records doctor Spears meeting

0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:11.480
<v Speaker 2>with this guy and being like, look, how much is

0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:13.239
<v Speaker 2>it going to cost for you to turn around on

0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 2>this issue, and how the state rep is like sixty

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:18.960
<v Speaker 2>grand and Spears is like, gun, I'll pay it. I've

0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:21.880
<v Speaker 2>got the foundation funds, Like, we'll bribe you with that. Basically,

0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 2>this had been his real job since he'd become the

0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:28.080
<v Speaker 2>head of the state Naturopathic Association. Right as he's bribing

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:30.840
<v Speaker 2>lawmakers and police to look the other way because a

0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:33.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of people are doing illicit abortions and other healthcare

0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:37.160
<v Speaker 2>procedures they're not supposed to be doing, and he's taking

0:50:37.200 --> 0:50:39.960
<v Speaker 2>bribes to keep that going. And once he gets caught

0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:43.440
<v Speaker 2>bribing a state official, his license was revoked and his

0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:46.440
<v Speaker 2>life starts to fall apart. He does steal hundreds of

0:50:46.440 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 2>thousands of dollars from the association's petty cash fund. But

0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:52.279
<v Speaker 2>I think he's burning through that pretty fast. His wife

0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:55.920
<v Speaker 2>has expensive tastes, the house isn't cheap to maintain, and

0:50:56.800 --> 0:50:59.080
<v Speaker 2>he's also got to be on the run now again

0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:03.719
<v Speaker 2>because he's in trouble increasingly and immediately he becomes a pariah.

0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:05.719
<v Speaker 2>And these high society places he and his wife had

0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:09.000
<v Speaker 2>gotten used to frequenting. So by this point he'd soured

0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:12.319
<v Speaker 2>on Loomis and the other guy, but because they had

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.560
<v Speaker 2>been drawing too much attention, so he tries to, you know,

0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:18.080
<v Speaker 2>as he's kind of trying to figure out, like, what's

0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:20.799
<v Speaker 2>going to keep me in business, he gets back into

0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:25.360
<v Speaker 2>the abortion business, but he tries to at first basically

0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:29.200
<v Speaker 2>try a hands off approach. So there's this other naturopath

0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:33.520
<v Speaker 2>named Fyman, who's the guy he'd bought his fake degree from.

0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:39.400
<v Speaker 2>And Fiman had built this intrauterine paste, right, and he

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:42.480
<v Speaker 2>marketed it under the name Metrovact. Now, there were a

0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:45.279
<v Speaker 2>lot of pastes that were meant to induce abortion in

0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:47.839
<v Speaker 2>this period of time, right, non surgical abortions, and they

0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:50.440
<v Speaker 2>look kind of like toothpaste tubes and you'd squeeze some

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:53.440
<v Speaker 2>into the cervix and it would induce a miscarriage, you know,

0:51:53.640 --> 0:51:56.680
<v Speaker 2>within like a day or so. It's violet covered. There's

0:51:56.680 --> 0:52:00.040
<v Speaker 2>a very strong chemical smell to it. But also so

0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the name it's it sounds like like a modern product,

0:52:02.960 --> 0:52:06.200
<v Speaker 2>so it's people think like, okay, this is safe and

0:52:06.239 --> 0:52:08.960
<v Speaker 2>it's legal to sell. You can't transport it over state lines,

0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:12.160
<v Speaker 2>which Fireman is doing. Fireman is moving it through this

0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 2>huge underground network. It's worth adding this fact about Fyman's

0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:19.399
<v Speaker 2>violet covered abortion paste from Jamison's book Vanishing Act. There

0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:21.720
<v Speaker 2>was no doubt that it induced abortions, but the FDA

0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:24.880
<v Speaker 2>quickly announced that this preparation was the most dangerous in existence.

0:52:25.040 --> 0:52:27.880
<v Speaker 2>The results were devastating. If the drug got under the bloodstream,

0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:33.239
<v Speaker 2>the patient always died. So it's not safe stuff, and

0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.839
<v Speaker 2>these guys don't really care about the impact it has

0:52:35.880 --> 0:52:38.400
<v Speaker 2>on people. In fact, Spears cares so little that he

0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:41.440
<v Speaker 2>tries to get Fimen to license this formula, and Fimon's like, no,

0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:43.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm making money off of it. So Spears has a

0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:49.720
<v Speaker 2>pharmacist with this an unbelievable name, Napoleon Bonaparte. Barbie Craft

0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.520
<v Speaker 2>him a lookalike paste. Then God knows what's in this shit.

0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just poison that burns people's insides, right, that's the

0:52:56.280 --> 0:52:59.399
<v Speaker 2>product that he's selling. He just has this pharmacist cook

0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:02.879
<v Speaker 2>up another pace that will burn people from the inside.

0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Fucking Napoleon Bonaparte, Barbie amazing name.

0:53:06.200 --> 0:53:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that is crazy.

0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Quite a name. By mid nineteen fifty seven, Spears's old

0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:16.800
<v Speaker 2>practice had been replaced by an underground traveling abortion clinic

0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:19.920
<v Speaker 2>offering house calls and motel calls. Now he didn't always

0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:22.279
<v Speaker 2>use the paste. He seems to prefer using herbs and

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 2>tees in many cases, and these usually don't do anything

0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:27.560
<v Speaker 2>at all. In fact, when he's caught for the first

0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.879
<v Speaker 2>time and arrested for providing abortion services in nineteen fifty eight,

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:33.799
<v Speaker 2>when Dallas cop writes, he takes the money from women

0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:37.879
<v Speaker 2>and prescribes certain medicines, but these medicines are harmless. That will,

0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately not always be the case. After getting free from

0:53:41.560 --> 0:53:45.040
<v Speaker 2>these charges in Dallas, Spears moves the family to southern California,

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:47.640
<v Speaker 2>where they can live closer to Don Loomis, whose abortion

0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:50.520
<v Speaker 2>business was thriving still. The two partnered up and were

0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:52.759
<v Speaker 2>soon making more than twenty two thousand dollars a month.

0:53:52.800 --> 0:53:56.239
<v Speaker 2>But this doesn't last long. In July of nineteen fifty nine,

0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:58.720
<v Speaker 2>one of his patients, a twenty two year old school teacher,

0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:01.799
<v Speaker 2>had gotten sick and I think eventually died after coming

0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:04.880
<v Speaker 2>into UCLA Medical Center. And when she'd come in, she

0:54:04.960 --> 0:54:07.440
<v Speaker 2>claimed that doctor Spears had performed an abortion on her

0:54:07.520 --> 0:54:11.120
<v Speaker 2>using a violet paste that per Jamison had destroyed the

0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:16.560
<v Speaker 2>soft tissues of her inner organs. So he is gotta

0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:19.440
<v Speaker 2>get in a lot of trouble for this. Yeah, this

0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:22.359
<v Speaker 2>is going to bring serious charges that he can't escape from.

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:25.560
<v Speaker 2>He gets arrested while he's still on the phone with UCLA,

0:54:26.040 --> 0:54:28.680
<v Speaker 2>and the police raid his house. They find surgical tools,

0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.000
<v Speaker 2>they find ingredients to make more of the pay whatever

0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:34.839
<v Speaker 2>fucking paste he's using, and they find fake diplomas. They

0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.400
<v Speaker 2>also arrest Donald Loomis, even though he'd been bribing the

0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:40.279
<v Speaker 2>cops like Spears gets them all busted because he's so

0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.840
<v Speaker 2>lazy and does not care at all about the health

0:54:43.880 --> 0:54:46.359
<v Speaker 2>of the women he's working on. I think Loomis at

0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:48.880
<v Speaker 2>least cared about because he wants to repeat business. If

0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:52.120
<v Speaker 2>you're going to be MGM's abortion doctor, you can't have

0:54:52.239 --> 0:54:55.080
<v Speaker 2>that many bad reactions because it's MGM, there's a lot

0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:57.200
<v Speaker 2>of money they've got behind, right, they don't care about

0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:00.520
<v Speaker 2>their health, but there's a lot of money here. Fucking

0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Spears just doesn't give a shit. And because he's so

0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:07.280
<v Speaker 2>sloppy and reckless, a woman's life is destroyed. And yeah,

0:55:07.400 --> 0:55:11.920
<v Speaker 2>it also just rolls up this whole abortion market that

0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:18.640
<v Speaker 2>had been running. Point, Yeah, it's fucked up. Spears is

0:55:18.719 --> 0:55:22.080
<v Speaker 2>near seventy. He's old at this point, and he is

0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:24.760
<v Speaker 2>tired of running. He's been doing this his whole life.

0:55:24.880 --> 0:55:27.000
<v Speaker 2>He has no idea how to get out of this one,

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.760
<v Speaker 2>and he kind of accepts I'm fucked, but he decides

0:55:29.800 --> 0:55:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go out, leaving my family a bunch

0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:37.919
<v Speaker 2>of insurance money. Now we don't know exactly what happened next,

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:40.080
<v Speaker 2>but you remember that old buddy of his, his crime buddy,

0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Al Taylor, right, yes, yeah, So while all this is

0:55:44.160 --> 0:55:47.799
<v Speaker 2>going on with Spears, while he's starting and falling as

0:55:47.800 --> 0:55:51.640
<v Speaker 2>a naturopath and becoming an abortionist, Al Taylor is kind

0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:54.640
<v Speaker 2>of laying low in Florida, living a fairly normal life.

0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:57.560
<v Speaker 2>You know. His ex wife is like later is like, yeah,

0:55:57.560 --> 0:56:01.320
<v Speaker 2>he was a normal guy. He seemed good with the kid. Periodically,

0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:04.279
<v Speaker 2>that weird guy Spears, who I never liked, would call

0:56:04.640 --> 0:56:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and he'd either travel to visit him or vice versa,

0:56:07.360 --> 0:56:09.760
<v Speaker 2>and Al would get really weird, Like he always talked

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:12.200
<v Speaker 2>about his old buddy like he was a god, and

0:56:12.239 --> 0:56:15.800
<v Speaker 2>he seemed to be like hypnotized by him. What probably

0:56:15.880 --> 0:56:19.160
<v Speaker 2>was happening is that periodically Spears and Taylor would hook

0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:21.319
<v Speaker 2>up for like a couple of weeks or a couple

0:56:21.360 --> 0:56:24.040
<v Speaker 2>of nights to run a con or two for old

0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:26.560
<v Speaker 2>time's sake, because it was fun and like this was

0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:28.880
<v Speaker 2>how they would like blow off steam while he's a

0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:34.600
<v Speaker 2>successful natural bath. So it seems like Spears kind of

0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:36.000
<v Speaker 2>gets with his buddy and he's like, hey, I've got

0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:38.360
<v Speaker 2>another con. We don't know exactly what happened. We know

0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:41.960
<v Speaker 2>that on November sixth, nineteen fifty nine, Robert Spears booked

0:56:42.000 --> 0:56:44.880
<v Speaker 2>a plane flight from Tampa to New Orleans. He had

0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:48.239
<v Speaker 2>previously taken out one hundred thousand dollars air travel insurance

0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:52.400
<v Speaker 2>policy on himself, but he never gets on that plane. Instead,

0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:54.960
<v Speaker 2>his friend Al Taylor gets on and takes his seat.

0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Immediately beforehand, Al takes out a thirty seven five hundred

0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:02.760
<v Speaker 2>dollars insurance. He calls his wife three times before getting

0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:04.840
<v Speaker 2>on the plane and she could tell something was wrong

0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:08.520
<v Speaker 2>with him. National Airlines Flight nine sixty seven took off

0:57:08.560 --> 0:57:11.640
<v Speaker 2>at eleven twenty two pm. It last made radio contact

0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:15.080
<v Speaker 2>at around twelve forty four am. Nothing seemed to be wrong,

0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:18.480
<v Speaker 2>but then the flight simply disappeared off the coast of Mexico.

0:57:19.000 --> 0:57:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Debris washed up in the surrounding communities for months. All

0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:26.040
<v Speaker 2>forty two people aboard are presumed to have died. Now

0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:30.240
<v Speaker 2>we don't know what caused flight nine sixty seven to

0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:34.800
<v Speaker 2>go down. There was a thorough investigation this before black boxes.

0:57:35.280 --> 0:57:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Investigators suspect a bombing because of how the plane goes

0:57:38.760 --> 0:57:41.160
<v Speaker 2>down and how much is left that somebody smuggled a

0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 2>bomb off and set it off. And right around this time,

0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:47.640
<v Speaker 2>another guy whose Spears and Taylor were kind of connected to,

0:57:48.200 --> 0:57:51.000
<v Speaker 2>had killed himself on a plane, taking out the whole

0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>plane for the insurance money. So this is probably a

0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:58.200
<v Speaker 2>con that they kind of wrapped up from him. There

0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:00.960
<v Speaker 2>are some people who doubted Taylor. Really it seems like

0:58:01.000 --> 0:58:04.640
<v Speaker 2>he did. He Spears may have tricked him. Taylor may

0:58:04.680 --> 0:58:07.720
<v Speaker 2>not have known that this was happening, yeah, or maybe

0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:09.560
<v Speaker 2>he knew kind of what was because he took out

0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.040
<v Speaker 2>an insurance policy. But maybe he just had a bad feeling.

0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:14.640
<v Speaker 2>But Spears may have set him up with a bomb,

0:58:14.640 --> 0:58:18.880
<v Speaker 2>we don't really know. For his part, Spears takes Al

0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Taylor's car because he's got a nice car and drives

0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.440
<v Speaker 2>it from Florida to like the southwest, where he hooks

0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:26.920
<v Speaker 2>up with that other Natura path that he'd worked with

0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:29.800
<v Speaker 2>for a while, and he hangs out and that guy notices,

0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 2>like when he's laying low, like because it's a major

0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:35.960
<v Speaker 2>story and he's reported on as dead, and like his

0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:39.400
<v Speaker 2>wife is talking to the press about how distraught he is,

0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:42.760
<v Speaker 2>and eventually Taylor's wife is saying, Hey, I don't think

0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:45.920
<v Speaker 2>that was hit. I think my husband's missing, and I

0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:48.640
<v Speaker 2>think maybe this guy killed him because he was supposed

0:58:48.640 --> 0:58:51.600
<v Speaker 2>to be on it. Like he like something's fucked up here.

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Tursky gets like weirded out because Spears is traveling around

0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:57.919
<v Speaker 2>with a trunk ful of dynamite and repeatedly talks about

0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:00.440
<v Speaker 2>how he knows how to make bombs and eventually blows

0:59:00.520 --> 0:59:02.560
<v Speaker 2>up his friend Al Taylor's car with a bunch of

0:59:02.640 --> 0:59:06.240
<v Speaker 2>dynamite to try to hide the evidence. Yeah, so we

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:09.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know who blew up the plane or that it

0:59:09.920 --> 0:59:12.880
<v Speaker 2>was blown up, but we know Robert Spears was supposed

0:59:12.920 --> 0:59:14.920
<v Speaker 2>to be on it and got his friend, the patsy

0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:17.400
<v Speaker 2>who worshiped him, to get on it instead, and tried

0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to have his wife cash in that one hundred thousand

0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:22.520
<v Speaker 2>dollars life insurance policy. His plan was for it to

0:59:22.520 --> 0:59:25.160
<v Speaker 2>support their kids, right, her and their kids. Well, he

0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:27.960
<v Speaker 2>was because he was gonna either go to prison or

0:59:28.160 --> 0:59:30.240
<v Speaker 2>have to flee the country because everyone thought he was dead.

0:59:30.520 --> 0:59:33.320
<v Speaker 2>But he wanted to do something for his family, and

0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:36.200
<v Speaker 2>so he may have orchestrated the murder of forty two

0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:38.959
<v Speaker 2>people on a plane to try and get his wife

0:59:38.960 --> 0:59:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and kids the insurance money. Yikes, that's probably what happens. Well,

0:59:43.640 --> 0:59:47.840
<v Speaker 2>we don't know. Wow, he does get caught, the guy

0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:50.680
<v Speaker 2>he's hiding with turns him in, he gets arrested, he

0:59:50.720 --> 0:59:53.040
<v Speaker 2>gets convicted of a he doesn't get convicted of blowing

0:59:53.080 --> 0:59:54.640
<v Speaker 2>up the plane, but of a bunch of other crimes,

0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:56.280
<v Speaker 2>and he dies in prison not long after.

0:59:56.440 --> 0:59:59.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, just general shadery, I think is probably the charge

0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:01.120
<v Speaker 4>that he finally caught at the end.

1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Two years later, like while he's serving his five

1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:07.880
<v Speaker 2>year prison term for car theft, Spears does an interview

1:00:07.880 --> 1:00:11.920
<v Speaker 2>with Eddie Barker of krol DTV in Dallas and says, well,

1:00:11.960 --> 1:00:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I had knowledge of the probability of a bomb on board,

1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:16.680
<v Speaker 2>and basically because I knew someone else had a bomb

1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:20.280
<v Speaker 2>on board, I wanted to have a ticket in my

1:00:20.400 --> 1:00:22.800
<v Speaker 2>name and like a guy filling the seat so that

1:00:22.840 --> 1:00:25.520
<v Speaker 2>they could cash it on the insurance. But also like

1:00:25.760 --> 1:00:29.560
<v Speaker 2>who else had the bomb? Yeah, there's some there was

1:00:29.600 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>like a mob guy who was on the plane, but

1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:33.760
<v Speaker 2>like the mob didn't really do hits by killing a

1:00:33.800 --> 1:00:37.200
<v Speaker 2>whole plane of random people. That's kind of bad business

1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:37.840
<v Speaker 2>for the mob.

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:43.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of trouble doing that. Yeah.

1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I think Spears probably blew that plane up for the

1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:49.720
<v Speaker 2>insurance money, which definitely, if the other stuff didn't, definitely

1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:51.120
<v Speaker 2>qualifies him as a bastard.

1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:54.439
<v Speaker 4>Yes, did his wife get the insurance money?

1:00:54.480 --> 1:00:55.040
<v Speaker 3>Did that happen?

1:00:55.160 --> 1:00:57.040
<v Speaker 2>No? No, you don't get that when you because first off,

1:00:57.080 --> 1:00:57.600
<v Speaker 2>he's not dead.

1:00:57.840 --> 1:00:59.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, once he's.

1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Proven a lie, there's not going to be an insurance payout.

1:01:01.760 --> 1:01:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Like you're fine man, that's true.

1:01:04.000 --> 1:01:07.080
<v Speaker 3>God, so all that I got killed all those people

1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:07.520
<v Speaker 3>for nothing?

1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Wow?

1:01:08.920 --> 1:01:15.360
<v Speaker 4>What an asshole? And as Wow, that's you know, when

1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:17.440
<v Speaker 4>I was so hopeful in the last episode when you

1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:19.600
<v Speaker 4>said no pedophiles.

1:01:20.600 --> 1:01:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Not a pedophile probably yeah.

1:01:22.480 --> 1:01:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you know we're still we're still

1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:28.720
<v Speaker 3>bat in a thousand in that category for sure.

1:01:28.760 --> 1:01:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Just a mass murderer and a guy who uh picked

1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:36.760
<v Speaker 1>on people that were in vulnerable situations trying to get.

1:01:37.320 --> 1:01:41.360
<v Speaker 3>You know, care, Yes, exactly. That should have been legal

1:01:41.400 --> 1:01:44.080
<v Speaker 3>the entire time, and yeah it.

1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Never should have been okay, yeah, but what can I

1:01:46.320 --> 1:01:49.400
<v Speaker 2>do stop people from committing crimes? Yeah?

1:01:49.400 --> 1:01:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean the the part that somebody was so desperate

1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:55.040
<v Speaker 1>enough that they went to him to end a pregnancy

1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:59.160
<v Speaker 1>and then they end up dying because he's given them

1:01:59.200 --> 1:02:00.080
<v Speaker 1>a toxic.

1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:03.040
<v Speaker 3>Purpose paste awful.

1:02:03.240 --> 1:02:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Great, and you know there's things that could have been

1:02:05.760 --> 1:02:08.200
<v Speaker 1>done so that they didn't need to go to that

1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:09.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of person.

1:02:09.800 --> 1:02:13.040
<v Speaker 5>But uh, America, that'sis.

1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, some of this is just yet that's how

1:02:14.960 --> 1:02:16.840
<v Speaker 2>things were back when all this stuff was illegal.

1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:22.920
<v Speaker 4>A good reminder for the future. Yeah, yes, yeah, there

1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:25.120
<v Speaker 4>will be a way will always happen regardless that's why

1:02:25.160 --> 1:02:27.800
<v Speaker 4>it needs to be legal and easily accessible.

1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, legal and like regulated so that people are Actually

1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:36.520
<v Speaker 2>it is healthcare medicine. It is healthy as opposed to poison. Yes, yep,

1:02:37.440 --> 1:02:38.120
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff.

1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:40.640
<v Speaker 1>BRANDI you want to plug your pluggables for us one

1:02:40.680 --> 1:02:41.200
<v Speaker 1>last time?

1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:42.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Please?

1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:45.560
<v Speaker 4>So, guys, I have a new album that just came out,

1:02:45.560 --> 1:02:47.920
<v Speaker 4>comedy album. It's called Milk Job. You can listen to

1:02:47.960 --> 1:02:50.000
<v Speaker 4>it wherever you listen to albums. I put it out

1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:52.760
<v Speaker 4>on my comedy record label that I've been running for

1:02:52.800 --> 1:02:55.560
<v Speaker 4>a few years now. It's called Burn This Records. And

1:02:55.560 --> 1:02:57.000
<v Speaker 4>the thing that you could do that would be super

1:02:57.000 --> 1:02:59.320
<v Speaker 4>helpful is if you followed us on YouTube, because we're

1:02:59.320 --> 1:03:02.560
<v Speaker 4>getting into the YouTube video world starting this year with

1:03:02.640 --> 1:03:06.040
<v Speaker 4>my special so burn This Record on YouTube. I also

1:03:06.080 --> 1:03:08.680
<v Speaker 4>have a podcast myself called Lady to Lady with Babs

1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:11.200
<v Speaker 4>Gray and Test Barker. We've been around for fifteen years.

1:03:11.200 --> 1:03:13.800
<v Speaker 4>It's a real good time. And I'll be on Warp

1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:16.560
<v Speaker 4>Tour all summer long. So follow me at bran Dazzle

1:03:16.600 --> 1:03:20.680
<v Speaker 4>wherever you follow people that you like, and uh yeah.

1:03:20.600 --> 1:03:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Follow brand Dazzle and follow this podcast to our inevitable

1:03:26.640 --> 1:03:32.320
<v Speaker 2>conclusion when we get rated for providing fake medical treatments.

1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:34.320
<v Speaker 3>No, no, one.

1:03:34.240 --> 1:03:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Day, so one day, god willing, you know, god willing.

1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:38.600
<v Speaker 1>I think I was just relieved for a second that

1:03:38.720 --> 1:03:40.560
<v Speaker 1>you say anything about palms.

1:03:42.280 --> 1:03:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's for the best, probably best not to

1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:47.640
<v Speaker 2>not to, not to poke that bear.

1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:49.640
<v Speaker 3>Let's not do either of those things.

1:03:50.040 --> 1:03:54.080
<v Speaker 2>You know what poke bear? What they seem like whimps? Nope,

1:03:54.120 --> 1:03:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Bye bye.

1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:01.920
<v Speaker 5>Behind the Beast is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:05.240
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1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:07.960
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