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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. Funny story. On

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Speaker 1: the way to record our podcast, several years ago, we

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Speaker 1: learned about something called cern.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and just like the title of this episode, we

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Speaker 2: became immediately immensely concerned.

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Speaker 1: Get it? Get it? So this dives into some bleeding

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Speaker 1: edge science allegations of conspiracy theories and thought experiments on

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Speaker 1: the part of some of the world's smartest human beings

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the large Hedron Collider.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Decant. Noel is away for the moment, but

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Speaker 1: will return soon as long as time still works the

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Speaker 1: way that we conventionally understand it. Most importantly, you are

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Speaker 1: you that makes this stuff they don't want you to know,

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Speaker 1: And I will get rid of this pun at the

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Speaker 1: very top, because Matt and our super producer Paul are

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Speaker 1: already so tired of hearing me say it. Today's title

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Speaker 1: is should we be concerned.

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Speaker 2: Yes, concerned, And for some reason, CEERN is capitalized in

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Speaker 2: that title, and that reason is that we are talking

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Speaker 2: about an organization that, if you are, like most human

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Speaker 2: beings on this planet now with an Internet connection, you

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Speaker 2: have heard of CERN. It's an organization that has constructed

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Speaker 2: something that you may have also heard of, called the

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Speaker 2: Large Hadron Collider.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, sir, the Large Hadron Collider. That's what it's

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Speaker 1: most well known for. And yeah that wasn't you know?

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Speaker 1: Was it best for us to just get that pun out?

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Speaker 2: Or I think we had to, But I'm also in

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Speaker 2: love with the.

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Speaker 1: Title, so okay, well, I promise I won't I won't

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Speaker 1: push it too much. Yes, you probably remember hearing for

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Speaker 1: years now about CERN and the Large Hadron Collider, and

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Speaker 1: you've probably seen some frankly garbage explanations on mainstream news

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Speaker 1: about how that.

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Speaker 2: Works in non mainstream news.

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Speaker 1: And probably in non mainstream news as well, and you

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Speaker 1: have hopefully also checked out some wonderful, in depth explanations

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Speaker 1: about what this thing is and what it does, and

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Speaker 1: we'll address some of that as well. But first we

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Speaker 1: want to establish this ZERN is responsible for much more

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Speaker 1: than a single incredibly significant series of experiments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's essentially responsible for the creation of what we

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Speaker 2: know as the World Wide Web, that WWW that you

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Speaker 2: type in sometimes when you're using a computer, you're a

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Speaker 2: lot of times not on your phone. Yeah, it did

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Speaker 2: that in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yes, the web was originally conceived by Tim Berners

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Speaker 1: Lee and it was developed to meet this demand for

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Speaker 1: automatic information sharing between scientists and universities and institutes around

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: It's some thing we always talk about in the past.

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Speaker 2: If you're a scientist and you're working on some research,

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Speaker 2: you just have your research and what was written down

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Speaker 2: and you have access to and if you can send

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Speaker 2: that information that you're working on immediately to everybody else

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Speaker 2: and you can get everybody else's change in the game man.

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Speaker 1: And so this really helped research at the time when

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Speaker 1: it had a sort of rarefied or very specific set

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Speaker 1: of users and a specific set of desires. And of

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Speaker 1: course they all said, this is great. We should do

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Speaker 1: this with everything, and we should have everyone check it out.

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Speaker 1: What could go wrong?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: Right, And you know, now now the Internet is what

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Speaker 1: it is, which is also changing. And I just want

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Speaker 1: to go on record here says nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: today's episode in saying that as a personal opinion, any

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Speaker 1: any ideologies or politics aside, the FCC's decision to sell

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Speaker 1: the American people down the river is just that a

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Speaker 1: massive trail and it's going to be terrible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The day prior to recording this episode, the FCC voted

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Speaker 2: to strike down the net neutrality rules that were put

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Speaker 2: in place onto the Obama administration, and that essentially the

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Speaker 2: Internet has been functioning on for it's entire existence just

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Speaker 2: being open and access to information is just for anybody

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Speaker 2: who has a connection.

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Speaker 1: And I would be really curious to see whether you

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Speaker 1: or Paul or Nol support the fccs. I guess they

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Speaker 1: would call it a quote unquote decision for the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote good because it's rare that I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: so open with an opinion about this thing. But if

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Speaker 1: you have kids, you should be concerned because we often

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Speaker 1: hear from organizations around the world about the dangers of

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Speaker 1: inequality in an economic sense. But history is proven, and

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Speaker 1: sadly the future will prove that an inequality of access

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Speaker 1: to information is at least as dangerous as lack of

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Speaker 1: access to the coupon system we practice today. Yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm there like hot takes left and right. On a

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Speaker 1: good note, Matt, When we were looking at some of

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Speaker 1: this background for CERN, it made me recall an other

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Speaker 1: another series that you and I used to do, Stuff

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Speaker 1: of Genius.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we did do Stuff of Genius for a while there.

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Speaker 2: We looked at inventors that were lesser known and the

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Speaker 2: cool things that they created that have shaped our world

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Speaker 2: and civilization.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing. It's an animated show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, animated on Final Cut Pro seven.

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Speaker 1: What photoshop by Matt the mad Man, Frederick.

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Speaker 2: Say, mostly Tyler Klang And.

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Speaker 1: And if you if you do some digging, you can

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Speaker 1: find episodes that Matt did the voice work on as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: are they still out there?

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Speaker 2: You can find them somewhere. Yeah, they exist.

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Speaker 1: So do check out Stuff of Genius and let us

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Speaker 1: let us know what you think, because we had we

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Speaker 1: had a lot of fun doing that one.

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Speaker 2: And don't forget Coolest Stuff on the Planet, which was

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Speaker 2: Matt's which was that travel. Don't ever search for that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's too late. Next. Next, the first website at CERN.

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Speaker 2: Yes exactly?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you want to talk about? Yes? Instead

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Speaker 1: of Coolest stuff on the planet.

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Speaker 2: Well, next was the computer, right Tim berners Lee, the

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Speaker 2: gentleman who was working with CERN. He created this first

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Speaker 2: website which was essentially about the web itself. This is

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Speaker 2: how you use this service. These are all the things

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Speaker 2: you need to do to access other people's documents, how

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Speaker 2: to set up your own server.

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Speaker 1: It's like FAQ.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It was the world's first website.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so the next machine in that is capital INN,

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Speaker 1: little E, capital X, Capital T is still at CERN,

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Speaker 1: isn't that correct?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Really cool, And it's been there for so long.

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Speaker 2: It's really neat that. In twenty thirteen, CERN actually reinstated

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Speaker 2: the website, the original first website, to its original address,

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Speaker 2: and you can go there right now if you want

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Speaker 2: to check it out.

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Speaker 1: Check it out today, folks.

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Speaker 2: And that website is info dot C, E r N

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Speaker 2: dot H.

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Speaker 1: Check it out. And Paul, while we're talking about that,

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Speaker 1: is there sort of a retro sci fi music cue

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Speaker 1: you could throw in, perfect he's so good at that.

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Speaker 1: You are so good at that.

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Speaker 2: Poul so certain has done a ton of things throughout

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Speaker 2: the years. We mentioned this already, We talked about the

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Speaker 2: first website. Awesome, We talked about the collider, the large

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Speaker 2: pattern collider that they will get into later. There are

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Speaker 2: other things that they discovered through experimentation, things like things

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Speaker 2: that I don't fully understand, I just to be honest

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Speaker 2: with you, things like wn z bosons that I you know, sure,

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Speaker 2: I think I kind of understand what that means, but

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Speaker 2: not really. And before that, they discovered neutral currents in

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Speaker 2: this thing called the Gargamel bubble chamber, which sounds like

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Speaker 2: a villain of some sort, but you know that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Gargamel from the Smurfs.

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Speaker 2: Right, Gargamel wasn't Gargamel bad.

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Speaker 1: In the Smurfs. The character Gargamel was bad, yes, But

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Speaker 1: Gargamel itself was a heavy liquid bubble chamber detector that

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Speaker 1: was operating for nine years in the seventies. It was

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Speaker 1: trying to detect neutrinos and anti neutrinos.

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Speaker 2: And it found neutral currents.

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Speaker 1: And it found neutral currents. Yeah, And of course we

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Speaker 1: are not physicists, though most people are not, as it

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Speaker 1: turns out, but we do know that we do have

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Speaker 1: a grasp of some of the experiments that CERN has conducted.

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Speaker 1: And what's important to note is that it's not just

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Speaker 1: the large hadron collider. They also created anti hydrogen atoms

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Speaker 1: in nineteen which, again, as a non physicist, to me

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Speaker 1: that you know, my thought is, why would you do that?

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Speaker 1: Why would you? We're family shows, so I will say,

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Speaker 1: why would you futs with things that We're fine?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Well, because we have to

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Speaker 2: find out, Ben, that's what science and all this is

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Speaker 2: all about. We just got to know smarter people than

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Speaker 2: I need to know.

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Speaker 1: And Matt, according to numerous people, CERN may be responsible

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Speaker 1: for much much much so, much more so, much more.

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Speaker 1: And we'll explore the facts surrounding CERN after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsors, and we're back. Matt. Yeah, Earlier when

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Speaker 1: we were off air, you and I talked about when

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Speaker 1: to just explain what CERN was? Yes, and you were

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Speaker 1: completely right, my old friend. We should have done it

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Speaker 1: at the top of the show.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know if I'm right. I see

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Speaker 2: there's a bit of a an elongation that it's just

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Speaker 2: keeping you on the edge of your seat, like what

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Speaker 2: is CERN?

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Speaker 1: It turns out that CERN is an acronym for the

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Speaker 1: Conseil European Polari Church Nuclear which I am not pronouncing

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Speaker 1: very well. Okay, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: In English, it means the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

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Speaker 1: And as we as we said before, it's most well

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Speaker 1: known for its massive thing called the Large Hadron Collider.

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Speaker 1: It is not an ironic name. It's not, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a little John sort of moniker. It's it's describing

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Speaker 1: a massive particle accelerator. And you, like many people, friends

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Speaker 1: and neighbors, listeners, demons and angels out there in the audience,

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Speaker 1: may be wondering what the heck is a particle accelerator.

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Speaker 1: We're very glad you asked so.

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Speaker 2: Essentially, it's a machine that speeds up with using magnets,

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Speaker 2: giant magnets that were they're like nineteen hundred tons or more,

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Speaker 2: nineteen hundred and twenty tons. I don't know exactly what.

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Speaker 2: It's huge, these giant magnets, they speed up and increase

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Speaker 2: the energy of a beam of particles, and they generate

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Speaker 2: these electric fields that accelerate these particles that just basically

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Speaker 2: continue to accelerate them going around a large loop, and

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Speaker 2: the magnetic fields that they have surrounding kind of the

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Speaker 2: track that they send these particles around. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: just accelerating them and steering them and focusing them down

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Speaker 2: into a tiny little beam and then they smash them together.

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Speaker 1: Tight. Yeah, sorry, I told you about this rav accidentally.

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Speaker 1: I've been falling into this thing. You know how sometimes words,

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Speaker 1: just as concepts, are mimetic entities of a type, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes slang from the past or from a different language

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Speaker 1: just sort of gets stuck in your mind like a

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Speaker 1: splinter in your finger. Yeah, and so tight has been

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Speaker 1: stuck in my head, and I am trying to tamp

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Speaker 1: it down.

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Speaker 2: No worries.

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Speaker 1: But that was an excellent explanation.

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Speaker 2: It was Okay, I think we got through it. So

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Speaker 2: there are a couple different types of these accelerators that

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Speaker 2: have been used and built in the past. One of

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Speaker 2: them is a linear accelerator or a linear accelerator, and

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Speaker 2: that's where a beam of particles travels essentially in a

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Speaker 2: straight line. I mean it makes sense, right, linear from

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Speaker 2: one end to the other end point. Yeah, And with

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Speaker 2: these you can have maybe two of them that are

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Speaker 2: on either side of this line, and you shoot the

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Speaker 2: beams at each other and they hit in the center,

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Speaker 2: and that's when you're doing your experimentation, right at that

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Speaker 2: center point where they're colliding.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Then you got these circular accelerators like the Large Hydron

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Speaker 2: Collider that have this ring, essentially a circle of sorts

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Speaker 2: that the particles just travel around this thing, accelerating, accelerating,

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Speaker 2: just getting faster and faster and faster and faster to

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Speaker 2: they reach a point where it's getting pretty close to

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Speaker 2: stuff we would observe with what we believe to be

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Speaker 2: the Big bang, and they smash them together, and that

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Speaker 2: point of smashing is where they do their major testing.

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Speaker 1: Smash point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a smash point. It's pretty tight.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I've spread I've spread my linguistic disease to you,

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Speaker 1: and I apologize. In two thousand and eight, speaking of segues,

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Speaker 1: Zern built the Large Hadron Collider. It's not only twenty

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Speaker 1: seven kilometers in length. It is a circular accelerator. As

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Speaker 1: Matt described earlier. It is also the world's most powerful

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Speaker 1: accelerator as we record this now at the very end

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Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen. It has the superconducting magnets and it

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Speaker 1: has a number of other ancillary structures built to accelerate

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Speaker 1: the energy the particles along the way and inside the

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Speaker 1: accelerator there are these two high energy beams, particle beams

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Speaker 1: that are traveling it close to the speed of light

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Speaker 1: before they finally hit one another.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy to think about so cool that we could

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Speaker 2: even achieve that a humans.

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Speaker 1: It is. It's astonishing just to be frank with you

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Speaker 1: and I'm being I'm being sincere in that point. The

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Speaker 1: beams travel in opposite directions in separate pipes, separate beam pipes,

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Speaker 1: which is the phrase that certain use. Yes, beam pipes,

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Speaker 1: beam pipes. The tubes are kept at an ultra high vacuum.

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Speaker 1: They're guided around by the magnetic field produced by the

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Speaker 1: superconductive magnets. And the electromagnets themselves are built from these

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Speaker 1: coils of a cable that virtually conducts electricity without resistance

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Speaker 1: or loss of energy. So these are very, very efficient.

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Speaker 1: And to make these magnets, these super cool magnets that

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Speaker 1: are super cool on several levels.

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Speaker 2: Yes, to make them function at that level.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, what do you have to do? Well?

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Speaker 2: It has to be the environment has to be extremely cold.

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Speaker 2: The magnets themselves have to be crazy cold. It requires

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Speaker 2: the magnets be negative two hundred and seventy one point

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Speaker 2: three degrees celsius. That's a temperature colder than outer space.

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Speaker 2: Let's say you're on a spacewalk as an astronaut. It

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Speaker 2: is colder in these super magnets, or these super magnets

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Speaker 2: are colder than you would be if you were standing

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Speaker 2: outside in outer space.

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Speaker 1: So two hundred and seventy one degree celsius is about

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Speaker 1: five hundred and nineteen zero point eight degrees fahrenheit. So

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Speaker 1: it's minus that minus that, which which is insane, but

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Speaker 1: is the nature of the business. And the LHC.

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Speaker 2: I guess we can start calling it that now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we know it well enough.

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Speaker 2: Okay with that.

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Speaker 1: The LHC was designed for a couple of different things,

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Speaker 1: but one of its primary purposes was to prove the

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Speaker 1: existence of something called the Higgs boson. And I can

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Speaker 1: tell you what it is real briefly if.

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Speaker 2: You want, yeah, please do. I'd love to know.

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Speaker 1: All right, So there is I know, it's been called

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Speaker 1: the God particle. It has been called the God particle.

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Speaker 1: And you and I would hang out and wonder whether

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Speaker 1: this would lead to the end of the world. Because

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Speaker 1: we received emails about this a lot plenty. We're going

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Speaker 1: to borrow some quotes from an excellent article called what

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Speaker 1: exactly is the Higgs Boson available at HowStuffWorks dot com

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Speaker 1: by an author named Jonathan at Bary. So to understand

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Speaker 1: what the Higgs boson is, we need to examine the

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Speaker 1: theories describing the way the cosmos works. And we'll call

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Speaker 1: it the standard model. Also not an ironic.

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Speaker 2: Name, sounds good.

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Speaker 1: So here's the gist of the standard model. It comes

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Speaker 1: to us comes to our species around the early nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 1: The idea is that the entire universe, everything you know,

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Speaker 1: and everything you or your friends will ever encounter, or

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Speaker 1: your ancestors or your descendants capitally, everything is ultimately made

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Speaker 1: up of twelve different sorts of particles of matter and

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Speaker 1: four forces. In the twelve particles, you'll encounter six things

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Speaker 1: called quarks and six things called toons. Quarks are what

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Speaker 1: comprise protons and neutrons, while the things we call leptons

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Speaker 1: include electrons and the electron neutrino. Scientists think that you

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Speaker 1: cannot break leptons and quarks into smaller particles. So far,

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Speaker 1: so we've got those twelve particles, and then we have

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Speaker 1: four forces that sort of captain planet together to make

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Speaker 1: the universe run.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's gravity, which you're probably aware of going

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Speaker 2: up and going down, But there's more to it than

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Speaker 2: that electromagnetic force that's what you see in magnets. Then

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Speaker 2: you've got strong and weak forces, and these are more

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Speaker 2: of the nuclear forces that have to do with the

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Speaker 2: way atoms interact. It gets a little intense when you're

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Speaker 2: getting down into those forces and trying to truly understand them.

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Speaker 2: And that's why being a particle physicist is a high

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Speaker 2: paying job.

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Speaker 1: And a demanding one, right and a very important one.

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Speaker 1: So you've got those, let's let's focus on those four

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Speaker 1: fundamental forces. Scientists believe that each of those forces that

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Speaker 1: Matt just named have a corresponding carrier particle, which they

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Speaker 1: call a bo'sun b O, s O N that acts

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Speaker 1: upon matter. And there's a cool analogy in here. Some

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Speaker 1: physicists have described to bosuns as weights anchored by mysterious

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Speaker 1: rubber bands to the matter particles that generate them. So

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Speaker 1: we can think of particles constantly snapping back out of

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Speaker 1: existence in an instant yet equally capable of becoming entangled

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Speaker 1: with other rubber bands attached to other bosins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is easy to understand. Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're being.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it's very it's just difficult stuff

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Speaker 2: to wrap your head around.

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Speaker 1: That's all because there were also just grabbing the movement

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Speaker 1: of matter through the universe r yes, and the forces,

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Speaker 1: the forces acting upon that matter, and the rules of

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Speaker 1: the road for those forces if they are like chess

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Speaker 1: pieces that can only move in certain directions. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: so that's what they're looking for. And they've been trying

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Speaker 1: to do this for a while, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they have been. Let's travel all the way back

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Speaker 2: to nineteen fifty three to the sixth Section, the sixth

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Speaker 2: Session of the Surn Council, which took place in Paris

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Speaker 2: from June twenty ninth to July first. The Convention established

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Speaker 2: the organization was signed. They were subject to ratification by

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Speaker 2: twelve different states. The Convention was gradually ratified by the

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Speaker 2: founding member states. We're talking Belgium, Denmark, France, the Federal

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Speaker 2: Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: the United Kingdom, and Yugoslavia.

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Speaker 1: And your Slavia. So one thing that's in interesting about

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Speaker 1: this is that conspiracy theorists or or fringe researchers see

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Speaker 1: this international cooperation as very strong, circumstantial evidence. That's something. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I was going to say that something's rotten in Denmark,

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Speaker 1: but Shakespeare's side that doesn't imply. But that's you know,

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Speaker 1: some people distrust that level of geopolitical cooperation. A.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so many different governing entities having their hands in this,

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Speaker 2: got it? Or you know, it could just be humans

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Speaker 2: working together to do the coolest experiments possible.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate that point, Matt, and I hope that's

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Speaker 1: the case. I was just going to argue that it

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Speaker 1: was probably too expensive for each of those countries to

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Speaker 1: afford on their own. But shadowy capal interested scientists vultroning together,

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Speaker 1: everybody figuring out how to flit the bill regardless. On

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Speaker 1: the seventeenth of May in nineteen fifty four, they first

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Speaker 1: broke Earth and Geneva officials were watching, members of the

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Speaker 1: Stern staff were watching. Construction continues till September of the

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Speaker 1: same year and CERN officially comes into being located there

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Speaker 1: in Switzerland, and today you can find CERN. It's still

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Speaker 1: the same place. You can view it on Google Earth.

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Speaker 1: It's gigantic, it's based in a suburb near Geneva on

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Speaker 1: the border between France and Switzerland, and currently it has

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Speaker 1: twenty two member states. The United States is not a

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Speaker 1: full member of CERN nop Israel is the only non

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Speaker 1: European full member of CERN. It has expanded from twelve

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Speaker 1: to twenty two member states. And in addition to the

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Speaker 1: large Hadron collider, these physicists, these engineers, some of the

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Speaker 1: smartest people in the world, are probing the fundamental structure

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Speaker 1: of the universe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're studying the basic the basic pieces of matter,

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Speaker 2: the things that are the building blocks that create this

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Speaker 2: table and these hands that's a Handsund's hands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it's like we said, we keep reiterating, it's incredibly cool.

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Speaker 2: They're talking about colliding you know, particles. That's what they do.

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Speaker 2: They they hang around all day. They speed up particles

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Speaker 2: to the speed of light almost, and they smash them

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Speaker 2: together and they see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Because without this sort of technology, physicists would ultimately be

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Speaker 1: participating in thought experiments, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of it still is thought experiments

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Speaker 2: that they're trying to prove one way or the other.

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Speaker 2: By doing these.

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Speaker 1: Experiments to to transform a guess into observable science, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: And one of the really interesting things that you noted earlier, Matt,

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Speaker 1: as you said, this is for me where science becomes magic.

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Speaker 1: This is like my Arthur C. Clerk threshold. Without directly

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Speaker 1: observable science at the very edges of theoretical science, what

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Speaker 1: we encounter is is very close to mysticism or articles

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Speaker 1: of faith. Yeah, if you're a world expert on something,

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Speaker 1: your best guess automatically becomes leading theory.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and that is ultimately what they're testing it, Cerne.

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Speaker 2: It's the fundamental laws of nature that govern all matter

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Speaker 2: in all existence, and a lot of these are you know,

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Speaker 2: they're testable and provable to a certain extent. But then

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Speaker 2: when you get deeper and deeper and deeper down into

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Speaker 2: the sub atomic and then even deeper levels, it's harder

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Speaker 2: to know what is real and what's not. And that's

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Speaker 2: why sirn is so important.

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Speaker 1: Furthermore, that's why cern for many people is so frightening. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into something a little stranger after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Matt. I have to ask you, because

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Speaker 1: you and I were working together years and years ago

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Speaker 1: when a lot of news about the large Hadron Collider

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Speaker 1: and the search for the Higgs boson popped up in

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Speaker 1: the mainstream. What was your experience like hearing that news

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Speaker 1: and as we were learning.

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Speaker 2: About this around the time, the website dig was pretty big,

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Speaker 2: and I would go there all the time and they

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Speaker 2: would have updates essentially, and I would watch news conferences

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Speaker 2: that were live with updates from cern about you know,

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Speaker 2: they're getting the LHC is preparing to run some tests,

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Speaker 2: but they're having some issues with some of the magnets,

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Speaker 2: let's see. I would watch with baited breath with some

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Speaker 2: of these press conferences where they're going to announce something

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Speaker 2: and nothing came for a long time, you know, nothing

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Speaker 2: official about the Higgs boson, But then when it did,

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Speaker 2: I think it's still so out there beyond my understanding

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Speaker 2: that it's hard for me to wrap my head around it.

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Speaker 2: But I remember being excited knowing that we at least

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Speaker 2: had a better grasp on whatever this field is, this

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Speaker 2: Higgs field that connects all matter. That made me really excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's amazing to believe that something some of

440
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: the most intelligent people in the world have been essentially

441
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: guessing at for so long turned out to be a

442
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: real thing. There's this sort of what's the phrase use

443
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: baited breath. Yeah, I think that perfectly encapsulates it, because

444
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's this there's this immense relief that every

445
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: person encounters when it turns out that the universe obeys

446
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: something we can understand, Yeah, for a.

447
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: Moment, because there's a certain amount of certainty that you

448
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 2: can get from that. But you know, simultaneously, as we're

449
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 2: reading about this, we're hearing about it, and updates are coming.

450
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: We're also making this show, the video portion of this

451
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: show at this time, and we are you know, we

452
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: are getting letters, We're getting people tweeting at us and

453
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: everything telling us about all of the things that CERN

454
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: is doing and the large Handron collider that are going

455
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: to essentially end humanity or destroy the planet in some

456
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 2: way or at least cause havoc.

457
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, So, over the years leading to and after

458
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: its construction, CERN became the subject of numerous strange rumors,

459
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, and some would argue legitimate worries. So what

460
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: gives I remember several of the several of the things

461
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 1: we received, many of which were very in depth, and

462
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: one of the ones that you brought up recently we

463
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: were doing research for this episode was the story of

464
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: the time traveling sabotuur.

465
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so okay, in the days leading up to

466
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: the first proof of the Higgs boson.

467
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: As which is twenty twelve.

468
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: Twenty twelve, yeah, the exact date. Yeah, you can find it.

469
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: But we I remember reading that there were a lot

470
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: of issues with the collider itself. There was some malfunctioning occurring.

471
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: I think there was something with birds, and I couldn't

472
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: find it when I looked again, but I thought something

473
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: occurred with birds.

474
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they started they started speaking Aramaic and their

475
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: eyes were bleeding, and that that was.

476
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: The major part of it. But there were there were

477
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: a bunch of small issues that were occurring, and then

478
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: parts of the collider, parts of the magnet, one of

479
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: the magnets wouldn't function correctly, so they kept putting off

480
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: and putting off and putting off. Right, the ability to

481
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: actually do this testing and then run all of the

482
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: diagnostics on the testing that you need to analyze the

483
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: data that you get back, because that's where you actually

484
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: find out if you found the Higgs Boson.

485
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: Particle, right, Yeah, When the experiments are happening when it's

486
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: in media arrests, they have no I mean, you can

487
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: tell if things are working, yes, but it takes some

488
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: rigorous analysis afterwards to find what you.

489
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: Found supercomputers to go, all right, we're gonna look at

490
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: all this data for a couple months minimum. Yeah. But

491
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: as we're saying, the idea was that perhaps there was

492
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: some time traveler who had come back to twenty eleven

493
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: twenty twelve to sabotage the large Hadron Collider because something

494
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: terrible was going to happen in the immediate future because

495
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: of these experiments. So this benevolent time traveler just sabotaged

496
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: the magnets. He brought some birds in, apparently to mess

497
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: things up, the weird birds that speak languages they shouldn't know.

498
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm having fun with I gotcha, I'm following you. Well.

499
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: The idea there is fascinating because it's one of the

500
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: biggest tropes of time travel, the belief that someone would

501
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: come from a possible future to prevent that future occurring

502
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: in the various ways in which that quickly becomes a

503
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: mind boggling paradox. Stephen King has a novel called eleven

504
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: twenty two sixty three in which a character attempts to

505
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: This is not much of a spoiler. A character attempts

506
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: to prevent the assassination of President Kennedy.

507
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's stuck in a time loop on that day,

508
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: or he's chosen to enter a time loop accidentally, and

509
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: he just dial of Groundhog days the assassination essentially.

510
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: So he has one thing that really stuck out for

511
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: me in the concept or the language of the book

512
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: is the phrase the past is obdurate, meaning that in

513
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: the book it is or in this universe, in this story.

514
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: It is possible to make small changes, right, we can.

515
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: We can put a coffee cup on the left side

516
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: of a desk versus the right, and the world's bins

517
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: as it will. But that to enact a larger change,

518
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: like causing or preventing the death of a person who

519
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: for a moment was a hinge upon which humanity, human

520
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: civilization swung, that becomes a bigger order, much larger bag

521
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: of badgers, and it is either impossible or incredibly dangerous

522
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: to do so. So with that kind of internal logic,

523
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: which again I'm completely plagiarizing from a completely fictional book.

524
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: In this internal logic, then if a time traveler is

525
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: attempting to prevent something incredibly important, whether incredibly good incredibly bad,

526
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: then it would be a huge shift and it would

527
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: be a problem. But then we also have to think,

528
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: if somebody had the benefit of retrospect, right, couldn't they

529
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: travel back to the nineteen fifties and prevents cern from

530
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: being built.

531
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: That's probably smarter, you know, but somebody was going to

532
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: build it at some point. I mean, you've prevented that one.

533
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: You gotta think maybe a group of scientists here in

534
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: the United States, working with Canada and Mexico, created our

535
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: version of the LHC.

536
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: We almost did, didn't we. Yeah? Yeah, but you know

537
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: it's tough.

538
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 2: It's that whole weird butterfly effecting where somebody, and especially

539
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: the idea of science itself, somebody somewhere is going to

540
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: try it.

541
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: And if we if we treat this as a thought experiment,

542
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: one thing that is baffling. And look, let's be honest,

543
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: most people nowadays do not believe in some sort of physical,

544
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: nonlinear or time travel. Right. But here's the thing, whether

545
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: you believe in this idea or not. The weirdest and

546
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: for me, most disturbing aspect of this entire concept is

547
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: that if a time traveler did change something, we would

548
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: have no idea.

549
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: No, because our reality would just move along. It may

550
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: have already happened, yeah, numerous times.

551
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: Right, And you and I feel like we have been

552
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: doing this show together for a number of years. But

553
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: have we Who was actually sitting here before the timeline changed?

554
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: Oh dude, I think it was I think it was me,

555
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: But but was it? I don't know? Oh? Oh, oh wait,

556
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: who's that? Oh it's just Paul.

557
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you're staring matt Is. Matt is staring at super

558
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: producer Paul, seeing if he can get a reaction from him.

559
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: Did you get one? I was looking at you, looking

560
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: at Paul.

561
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: He's got that poker face.

562
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: Wow, Oh well, you got an eyebrow lifted. All right,

563
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna move on. I am still paying

564
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: for that punt at the top.

565
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: Full disclosure. Our Christmas holiday party was last night, so

566
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: all of us, you know, we we got down. So yeah,

567
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 2: this morning we're recording this. We're all a little loopy.

568
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: I think I think that's all right. We're having a

569
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: good time in here, especially Paul. He's having the best time.

570
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: So, speaking of time travel, John Teetoor, if you are listening,

571
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: please feel free to clue us in on what may

572
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: or may not be happening at CERN, if there's any

573
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: nonlinear time travel involved. And John Teetor, since you are

574
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: one of the most famous alleged time travelers in our

575
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: day and age, we would love to invite you to

576
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: our holiday party that occurs yesterday.

577
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: Oh, there were some people I didn't know there.

578
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a lot of people I didn't know there.

579
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: I've got to start wearing a disguise for that thing.

580
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: This is just this is just one of the conspiracy

581
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: theories or fringe beliefs about CERN. Other stuff, believe it

582
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 1: or not, is even stranger. One story involves human sacrifice.

583
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, a video showed up online in twenty sixteen of

584
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: what appeared to be human sacrifice occurring in the Geneva

585
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: facility of CERN. It looked like some kind of occult ritual.

586
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: There was a mock human sacrifice that occurred. You can

587
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: watch the video. You can see at least parts of

588
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: it online. The Guardian has a great write up on it.

589
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 2: If you just type some of those search words in sure,

590
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: it looks like a woman gets stabbed.

591
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: By these people wearing black cloaks, black robes. Yeah, and

592
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: it's conducted in front of a large statue of Shiva,

593
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: the Hindu deity.

594
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks intense, let's say that. But according to

595
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: the Guardian and some of the sources they used, it

596
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: appears to be at least not genuine, like nobody actually

597
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: got hurt. It appears to be just some people goofing around.

598
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: At least that's the official story.

599
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: Sure thing. Yeah, and Bohemian Grove is just a summer camp.

600
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is right.

601
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: Uh huh they are. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure that's

602
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: what a spokesperson for Bohemian Grove has said. Oh, okay, look,

603
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: this was probably a prank. Bohemian Grove is real, uh,

604
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: these a certain spokeswoman told, uh told a French press

605
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: agency that this these scenes were filmed on our premises,

606
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: but without official permission or knowledge. Certain does not condone

607
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: this type of spoof, which can give rise to misunderstandings

608
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: about the scientific nature of our work.

609
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it should be known that the people

610
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: responsible for pulling the prank did have access badges, so

611
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: they were there. It's not like they didn't have permission

612
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: to be on the campus.

613
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: So people who really did work at CERN at least

614
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: faked a human sacrifice. Yes, that's that's true. Yes, right,

615
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: at the very least they faked.

616
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: It for somebody's music video or student film. I'm assuming

617
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: I would like to see the final product.

618
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: Or they stabbed someone.

619
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, that's what you The two things pretty much.

620
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: Here's another one. Earthquakes. Yeah, manufactured earthquakes, not purposely manufactured,

621
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: but I mean, let's say accidentally man made. Right.

622
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. The idea is that perhaps the LHC is causing

623
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 2: earthquakes unbeknownst or it's like a side it's a side

624
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: effect of some of the LHC testing that the scientists

625
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 2: didn't expect.

626
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: The idea came from a couple of different places, including

627
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel called bp Earthwatch. So CERN had an

628
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: experiment called a WAKE and it was exploring the use

629
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: of plowisma as an accelerant for particles, right to send

630
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: particles over a distance and have them retain high energy,

631
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: or to accelerate particles to high energies over a distance.

632
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: And one of the experiments involved sending plasma from the

633
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: LHC underground for two hundred and fifty miles to the

634
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: Grand Sasso Nuclear Physics Laboratory in Italy. And for people

635
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: who believe this theory, well, the argument is this that

636
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: scerns experiments, specifically awake sending plasma underground through these long

637
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: distances somehow triggered earthquakes of varying strength and significance. The

638
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: argument here seems to dwell on their interpretation of maps.

639
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: Essentially mm HM. And it's not it's not completely out

640
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: of bounds because we do know, for instance, that at

641
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: HARP before HARP shut its doors and they were exciting

642
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: the ionosphere, right, so we do know that there can

643
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: be large scale effects. But you know, if if, but

644
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: if people are causing earthquakes, here's the first question anybody

645
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: would ask if they were being skeptical. If people found

646
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: out they were doing something that was causing earthquakes, why

647
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: the hell would they do it? Surely they wouldn't keep

648
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, there's there's no way that people who

649
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: manufacture earthquakes and know that they're doing it, we keep

650
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: doing it. The motive's just not there.

651
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the motive's not there. I mean you you wouldn't

652
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: continue testing nuclear weapon underground if it caused earthquakes.

653
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yeah, that totally does it. That is true. Yeah,

654
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: that's a good point because in the dprkaka North Korea

655
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: underground nuclear testing does in fact cause earthquakes. Well yeah.

656
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: Another example would be, you know, if you were shooting

657
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: some kind of hydraulic mixture of chemicals into the ground

658
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: to break up the rocks so you could get more

659
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: oil out, and it just happened to cause earthquakes, you

660
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that anymore.

661
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh fracking, Yeah, that's right, we're doing that too. Oh

662
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: my gosh, I guess we're causing like two versions of

663
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: man made earthquakes. So the idea that cern would be

664
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: causing earthquake, while not scientifically valid, is not outside the

665
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: realm of ridiculous actions by human beings.

666
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: You know what feels a bit outside that realm, but

667
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: is so awesome I want it to be true.

668
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 1: What's that met?

669
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: That same experiment that was being performed at lhc Awake,

670
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: perhaps as it was creating a portal or the whole

671
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: point of it was to create a portal to another

672
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: dimension and or a wormhole across the universe. How cool

673
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: would that be? Because there are several YouTube channels that

674
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: you can find videos of people purporting that that's what occurred.

675
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: There's some videos of intense storms occurring above the LAFC

676
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: with just intense lightning going on, and the belief there

677
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: is that they opened a portal either to the underworld

678
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 2: i e. Satan or just to you know, an extraterrestrial planet.

679
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: Somewhere sort of like upside down. Yeah, a dimension slightly

680
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: tilted to the left. Yeah man, Yeah, that's cool, man,

681
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: sign me up. I'll go to another dimension. I'll go.

682
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: I'll go to the Mist world and that other Stephen

683
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: King story. I'll badly travel to the upside down.

684
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: The Misted world seems pretty scary.

685
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't think I would last long. Yeah, where I'd

686
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: give it a go. Yeah man, yeah, man, here for

687
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: a good time, not a long time.

688
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: Okay, explain something to me. Does the Mist and this

689
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: is kind of a spoiler, and just stop listening if

690
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 2: you don't want to.

691
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: We're past the statute. Man, it's five years. I've established that.

692
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: So in the Mist, is it an actual dimension that's

693
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: being breached or that is coming into our dimension or

694
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: is it just something that affects the mind. Because I

695
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 2: started watching this show that's based on The Mist, and

696
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: it seems to have a completely different understanding of what

697
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: it is than what I thought it was.

698
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: I believe the answer is found in the problem a

699
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: lot of producers have when they're adapting something to television, right,

700
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: which is inevitably if a show runs long enough, it

701
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: dilutes into a soap opera esque sort of thing about

702
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: people's relationships lost. Yeah, oh, walking Dead?

703
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: Right?

704
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Walking Dead is like a soap opera where everybody

705
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: says everyone else's name five times and a paragraph and

706
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: occasionally as zombie shows up and you know the look.

707
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who love the show,

708
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: and I think zombies are really cool monsters in Atlanta,

709
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: come on and Atlanta. Yes, yeah, this is a hometown

710
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: show and there's some amazing acting in it. It's just

711
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: not for me. But I think that's why the myst

712
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: happens there. And to answer your question, in the story

713
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: the myst, there's a thing. Somebody correct me right in

714
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: and correct me if i'm if I get this wrong.

715
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: But there's a there's a secret government project, right, maybe

716
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: Project Arrowhead or something else. It's rather vague, and what

717
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: they ultimately do is they open a hole into this

718
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: dimension from which this mist pours out, and the mist

719
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: sort of functions as the natural environment for the creatures

720
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: from this dimension, which are all aggressive and kind of

721
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: dumb and monstrous and they hate you.

722
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: And some of them are huge, right.

723
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and some are in like the size of a

724
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: large dinosaur.

725
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: It's so cool.

726
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: Okay, that's cool too.

727
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sorry to get into much of that. But

728
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: the thought of that occurring because of the LHC, I

729
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: think I wonder if that picture gets overlaid sometimes for

730
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 2: people they imagine something like that occurring at LAC.

731
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. There's there's this other idea that you introduced

732
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: me to about asteroids, that the LHC could generate a

733
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: magnetic field that could somehow pull an asteroid toward Earth

734
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: if the iron content of the rock was high enough.

735
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one doesn't hold much water, just because of

736
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: the science involved in how strong of an electromagnetic field,

737
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, is actually being created at the LHC, and

738
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: how strong that would have to be to have any

739
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: effect on anybody that's, you know, outside of our atmosphere.

740
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: However, one thing that really could happen.

741
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: Oh, the one thing. Black holes, black freaking holes, the

742
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: scariest thing that exists in our universe.

743
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: In my opinion, the LHC could legitimately, in theory, produce

744
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: miniature black holes, which miniature which still function as black holes,

745
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: and scientists readily admit this.

746
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: Yes, we've got a statement from a CERN spokesman and

747
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 2: this comes from Express dot co dot UK quote. Although

748
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: powerful for an accelerator, the energy reached in the LHC

749
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: is modest by nature's standards. Cosmic rays, particles produced by

750
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: events in outer space, collide with particles in the Earth's

751
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: atmosphere at much greater energies than those of the LHC.

752
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 2: These cosmic rays have been bombarding the Earth's atmosphere as

753
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: well as other astronomical bodies since the bodies were formed,

754
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: with no harmful consequences. These planets and stars have stayed

755
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: intact despite these higher energy collisions over billions of years.

756
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 2: The LHC will not generate black holes in the cosmological sense. However,

757
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 2: some theory suggests that the formation of tiny quantum black

758
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: holes may be possible. The observation of such an event

759
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: would be thrilling in terms of our understanding of the

760
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: universe and would be perfectly safe.

761
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: Unquote.

762
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: So don't you feel better?

763
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: Nah, because because you know, there are other people who

764
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: argue that the risk of operating the LHC disproportionately outweighs

765
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: anything any benefit science might gain from experiments. And this

766
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: from another spokesperson. For now, if they called lhdefense dot org,

767
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: it is not possible to know what the outcome of

768
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: the experiments will be. But even certain scientists concede there's

769
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: a real possibility of creating destructive theoretical anomalies such as

770
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: miniature black holes, would you right? And for people who

771
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: are concerned about this, they believe these events have the

772
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: potential to fundamentally alter matter and destroy the planet because

773
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: a miniature black hole would be trapped in Earth's gravitational

774
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: field and over seconds to hours, interact to acquire more mass,

775
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: and if the theoretical process of hockeyten radiation doesn't work

776
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: as predicted or as quickly as predicted, then the black

777
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: hole might stick around. The thing that people say is

778
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: if these theoretical tiny entities quantum black holes were created,

779
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: they would wink out of existence almost instantaneously to human observers.

780
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't you would pretty much only know by

781
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 2: observing the data after and you know, it is really interesting.

782
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: Certain scientists say that this kind of miniature black hole

783
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: or quantum black hole could have effects on other dimensions,

784
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: which sounds really interesting to me. So even though it's

785
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: only a blipant of existence in our three dimensional world,

786
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: well I guess four dimensions with time, but it could

787
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: have effects further on the dimensional scale, which is fascinating,

788
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: especially if you think about, you know, multiverse theory with

789
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: the idea that there we exist on a plane much

790
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: like a piece of paper. You get all these pieces

791
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: of paper stacked together, and you create a quantum black

792
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: hole on the top piece of paper. Let's just say

793
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: that's where we exist. For somehow that quantum black hole

794
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: would go all the way through or at least some

795
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: of the way through the rest of the papers that

796
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 2: are stacked up together. So you could cause a disturbance

797
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: theoretically across all of the multiverse, which sounds like a

798
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: bad idea.

799
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: It sounds like a strange idea. It gets us to

800
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: where today's episode concludes, because old friend, we are on

801
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: the bleeding edge of science and right now as we

802
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: record this, it's coming out in twenty eighteen. But we're

803
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: at the very end the twilight hour of twenty seventeen,

804
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: and we know that discoveries are being made right, being

805
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: worked toward that will fundamentally change our understanding of the

806
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: universe and possibly our understanding of our own inner workings.

807
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: And at this point, this is something you were telling

808
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: me off air. It's all theoretical, yeah.

809
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 2: The good, the bad, it's all theoretical on those tiny,

810
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: tiny scales that we can barely observe, And all we

811
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 2: can do is try and discover more by experimenting. And

812
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: I think that's the right way to go. We just

813
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: I would say, just humans. We have to be very

814
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: very careful of that doing it because we can, rather

815
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: than we need to understand. It's just so dangerous at

816
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: some of that, in those levels, it feels so dangerous.

817
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and I respect where you're coming from,

818
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: but you know that I'm fundamentally I know different in

819
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: that regard. I know, and maybe that's why we get

820
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: along so well. So we are going to call it

821
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: a day yet again. We have recorded an episode without

822
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: the world ending. In this timeline, at least the strangest

823
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: things we have discovered are that miniature black holes are

824
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: a real thing that CERN can create. That is not

825
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: hogwash that people do manufacture earthquakes. Yep, And everybody's just

826
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: pretending that's a normal thing. It is not, and it's terrible.

827
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: It's worth the money.

828
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: Future historians will see it on the same level as

829
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: as people committing human sacrifice because they're afraid the sun

830
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: won't go up. Oh wow, money is religion. So we

831
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: also know speaking of human sacrifice. Yeah, that people who

832
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: worked at CERN are at least doing some weird theater stuff.

833
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: And the thing again that I find most bizarre about

834
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: this is if there were a time traveling saboture or

835
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: group of saboteurs, we would have no idea. So what

836
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: do you think of the experiments going on at CERN? Yes?

837
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: And why do you think it's become this subject of

838
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: such strange accusations over time? Is it just because of

839
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: the curiosities and the unknowns for minds like myself which

840
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: don't fully grasp what's going on? Or is it because

841
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 2: there really is something going on?

842
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: A little fuzzy is Yeah? Is CERN creating fuzzy timelines? Right?

843
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: The Mandela effect just a ripple of CERN.

844
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: The guys over there again.

845
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: Yes, jeez, yeah, you know Paul. Okay, you remember me, right?

846
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: My name is Phil.

847
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know Bill. We've been working together for years.

848
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: Making sure well. Mike and I are going to call

849
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: it a day, all right. Thank you so much for

850
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: tuning in. Everybody. We hope that you are having a

851
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: wonderful start to your new year, and we'd like to

852
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: hear from you. We especially if you are a physicist.

853
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: We would love to hear your best analogy for the

854
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: Higgs boson, yes please, and the way bosons function upon

855
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: these forces.

856
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 2: Right, and that's the end of this classic episode. If

857
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 2: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you

858
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: can get into contact with us in a number of

859
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: different ways. One of the best is to give us

860
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three std WYTK.

861
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, you can send

862
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

863
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

864
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

865
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

866
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.