Speaker 1: My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything I need. My
Speaker 1: assistant rules his eyes at people and meeting. Why does
Speaker 1: my coworker keep taking credit for all my ideas? Have
Speaker 1: any wisdom for me? Hi? I'm Alison Green. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Aska Manager podcast, where I answer questions from listeners
Speaker 1: about life at work, everything from what to say if
Speaker 1: you're allergic to your coworkers perfume to what to do
Speaker 1: if you drink too much at the company party. Let's
Speaker 1: get started, Hi, and welcome to the show. Today. I'm
Speaker 1: going to answer a bunch of shorter questions from people,
Speaker 1: and the first question is from someone who works in
Speaker 1: an office where people do way too much over sharing. Hi, Alison,
Speaker 1: I've worked in the same office for over a year
Speaker 1: and a half and I'm bathful at how much my
Speaker 1: coworkers share. I've worked at several offices before and I've
Speaker 1: had very open discussions, but nothing quite on this level.
Speaker 1: To give you a snapshot, my office is open concept,
Speaker 1: with the majority of us and cubicles and a few
Speaker 1: of us sharing offices in other rooms. It's a out
Speaker 1: ninety percent women, and the majority are in their early thirties,
Speaker 1: so they're going through similar things when it comes to
Speaker 1: marriage and children. This past year alone, one of my
Speaker 1: co workers got married to had babies, and one had
Speaker 1: a baby about a year ago. This has caused discussion
Speaker 1: to always be about the female body and babies. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with sharing about these moments and hearing all about
Speaker 1: these milestones. However, I am not sure I need to
Speaker 1: hear about every kind of breast pump, the specifics of
Speaker 1: my coworkers bodies after birth, and associated issues related to pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I understand that they may have questions for each other
Speaker 1: as they go through certain things for the first time. However,
Speaker 1: I now know that one of my co workers had
Speaker 1: to go to a vaginal physical therapist because of the
Speaker 1: condition of her reproductive organs post baby, and now has
Speaker 1: to use keegel weights. Another husband's was not into the
Speaker 1: Brazilian bikini actually got, and another kind of hates her husband.
Speaker 1: One of my friends in the office has brought it
Speaker 1: up to her supervisor, but since her supervisor is also
Speaker 1: one of these people who overshares, nothing really happened. The
Speaker 1: few of us who aren't in this stage of life
Speaker 1: feels super uncomfortable. If we walked in talking about how
Speaker 1: much we drank over the weekend or what we did
Speaker 1: in a nightclub, we would be seen in a negative light.
Speaker 1: But if we talked about how our child is afraid
Speaker 1: to use a toilet or that our breastar chiefs from breastfeeding,
Speaker 1: it would be completely fine. As tempted as we are
Speaker 1: to go to HR, it doesn't feel like a major
Speaker 1: enough issue to bring up in our HR department. Is
Speaker 1: a bit of a joke. Also, since it's the majority
Speaker 1: of our office having these discussions, it would be really
Speaker 1: obvious to figure out who complained. Are there any ways
Speaker 1: we can reduce over sharing in a house before having
Speaker 1: to take it up to someone higher. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: People are so fascinating with the things that they do
Speaker 1: and don't have boundaries about and color you have somehow
Speaker 1: landed in a nest of people with no boundaries at all,
Speaker 1: it seems so. In general, I would say it's mostly
Speaker 1: stuff that you want to try to address yourself rather
Speaker 1: than escalating it to your manager to HR. There's one
Speaker 1: exception to which I'm going to get to in a minute,
Speaker 1: but in general, with interpersonal stuff like this, typically it's
Speaker 1: something that you would address on your own, unless it's
Speaker 1: at the point where it's really interfering with your ability
Speaker 1: to do your job. Like if you had a client
Speaker 1: in your office and your coworker was talking loudly about
Speaker 1: her bikini wax, that's something that would be appropriate to
Speaker 1: give your boss that heads up about because it's affecting
Speaker 1: clients and affecting your work, you know. Although even then
Speaker 1: I would still say talk to your coworker about it
Speaker 1: yourself first. I mean, if it's a one time thing
Speaker 1: that's not manager worthy, if it's a pattern, talked to
Speaker 1: her about it yourself. If that doesn't work, then talk
Speaker 1: to your boss. But the reason I would say try
Speaker 1: talking to her about it yourself first is because first
Speaker 1: that will often solve the problem without you needing to
Speaker 1: involve your boss. And also because if it doesn't solve
Speaker 1: it and you do need to talk to your manager,
Speaker 1: it's going to look better that you've already tried to
Speaker 1: handle it yourself. Your boss may ask you have you
Speaker 1: tried talking to her about this directly, and you want
Speaker 1: to be able to say yes. And then also from
Speaker 1: your co workers perspective, it's annoying to have someone complained
Speaker 1: to your boss when they didn't talk to you about
Speaker 1: the issue first, So you want to start with the
Speaker 1: people themselves. And if it's not stuff that is affecting
Speaker 1: your work, if it's just annoying interpersonal weirdness, that's not
Speaker 1: really stuff to take to your boss. There is an
Speaker 1: exception to this, though, and that is if someone is
Speaker 1: over sharing about sex specifically, and if having to listen
Speaker 1: to sex talk at work is making you uncomfortable, because
Speaker 1: that is getting into problematic legal territory for your employer,
Speaker 1: because sexual harassment laws can be in play. Sexual harassment
Speaker 1: isn't just one person targeting another person. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times people think that's all that it is.
Speaker 1: It can also be that you're working in an environment
Speaker 1: that's inappropriately sexualized and where you're subjected to a barrage
Speaker 1: of unwelcome sexual discussion. So if something like that is happening,
Speaker 1: your company has an interest in knowing about it and
Speaker 1: shutting it down because otherwise they can be legally liable.
Speaker 1: As for what to do here, you can try shutting
Speaker 1: it down when it's happening, Like when one of those
Speaker 1: conversations gets going, you could say, hey, this is more
Speaker 1: graphic than I want to hear at work. Can we
Speaker 1: keep this PG, or you could say, WHOA, that is
Speaker 1: too much for me at work, Let's move on. So
Speaker 1: sort of nudging people to realize, oh, there's people here
Speaker 1: who might not be happy bystanders to this conversation. Now,
Speaker 1: if you are actually working when this conversation is happening,
Speaker 1: you have a stronger standing to say this, because you're
Speaker 1: right to be able to focus on your work without
Speaker 1: having that distracting conversation around you. Trumps there their right
Speaker 1: to talk about vaginal physical therapy. But if it's a
Speaker 1: conversation that's like more like something a conversation over lunch,
Speaker 1: where it's more of a social context, if everyone else
Speaker 1: at the table wants to be talking about post baby
Speaker 1: body changes or so forth, it might be that you
Speaker 1: just need to cut back on how often you're having
Speaker 1: lunch with that group because they do have more freedom
Speaker 1: with conversations and social settings. Although to be clear, that's
Speaker 1: still a work context and there's still a line they
Speaker 1: shouldn't cross. It just really depends on exactly what the
Speaker 1: topic is and how graphic they're getting. But you may
Speaker 1: just need to be armed with some phrases like wow,
Speaker 1: too graphic for me, or so forth, something that you're
Speaker 1: ready to say when the conversation veers in that direction,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it will work. I mean, there are
Speaker 1: definitely groups of people who do this kind of thing,
Speaker 1: who think it's funny when someone objects, and we'll kind
Speaker 1: of tease you about it and won't stop at all.
Speaker 1: So so how effective this will be will depend on
Speaker 1: your coworkers. But if you can frame it in terms
Speaker 1: of like, hey, I'm trying to work over here, that
Speaker 1: might help. But it is also true that if this
Speaker 1: is the culture of your office, and since at least
Speaker 1: one manager is apparently part of the problem too, this
Speaker 1: might just be the culture there. And that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you would need to put up with sexual harassment
Speaker 1: if that's what we're happening, or sexually hostile work environment.
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to be clear that the answer
Speaker 1: to those things would not be, oh, it's just the
Speaker 1: culture there. But assuming that it's not that, and that
Speaker 1: it's really just people over sharing, there's probably not a
Speaker 1: ton of recourse. Even if you did have good HR,
Speaker 1: which you said that you don't, I don't think it
Speaker 1: would be something that you would get a lot of
Speaker 1: attraction on from them intervening on I mean a good
Speaker 1: HR person would talk to that manager who's involved and
Speaker 1: explain why she should be raining this in. But HR
Speaker 1: also doesn't have the power to come in and just
Speaker 1: insist that people change their conversational habits as long as
Speaker 1: it's not something like harassment. And in your case, because
Speaker 1: you said HR at your company is bad, that's probably
Speaker 1: moot anyway. So the upshot here be armed with some
Speaker 1: phrases that you can use to redirect the conversation. Emphasize
Speaker 1: that you're trying to work. But that might be the
Speaker 1: best that you can do with this group. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: go to the next call. So I'm bill like a
Speaker 1: new team to turn around late deliveries for a pretty
Speaker 1: important internal customer to our business. So in the process,
Speaker 1: I'm going to inherit a team member who's just he's
Speaker 1: away from his desk for hours on his phone and
Speaker 1: his computor at his desk. I walked by his desk
Speaker 1: and I've seen him watching movies on his phone while
Speaker 1: keeping his monitor alive with a spreadsheet or project plan
Speaker 1: on the monitor. Um, he comes in at nine am,
Speaker 1: takes a long lunch, leaves at two pm, and really, seriously,
Speaker 1: that was just in the course of a typical week.
Speaker 1: So in this guy's defense, he's pretty new to the
Speaker 1: organization and he was never really coached by his manager.
Speaker 1: His manager had been on vacation or was traveling for
Speaker 1: business the majority of the time that he was here.
Speaker 1: The person who was responsible for on boarding him was
Speaker 1: moved to another team because he really couldn't handle the workload.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm really thinking you probably take up some
Speaker 1: bad habits from that time. So you know what am
Speaker 1: I going to do? Like, I feel like I'm going
Speaker 1: to demonstrate the energy I expect. I'm going to give
Speaker 1: tough but fair deadline, give him some weekly goals, ensure
Speaker 1: that his passions are aligned to the work. But it's like,
Speaker 1: do I give him the benefit of the doubt and
Speaker 1: see if he needed just a more engaged manager, or
Speaker 1: should I just start out addressing his behavior directly and
Speaker 1: allowing him to start with clear expectations immediately. I just
Speaker 1: don't know whether I should just face this head on
Speaker 1: or let him evolve into the employee that I need.
Speaker 1: What do you think maybe there's another way forward? I
Speaker 1: don't know anyhow. Thank you very much for your time,
Speaker 1: and I really hope that you have some great ideas
Speaker 1: for me, and I'm sure you will thank you. You know,
Speaker 1: I could argue this either way. There is an argument
Speaker 1: to be made for addressing it right off the bat,
Speaker 1: like right up front with him, so that he knows
Speaker 1: that the bad work habits have been noticed and aren't okay.
Speaker 1: But if I were you, I would give it a
Speaker 1: little time to see what happens. Not months, not even weeks,
Speaker 1: but like one week. See how that first week goes,
Speaker 1: and if you notice any of those habits during that week,
Speaker 1: address it right away. But who knows. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: possible that the reason that he was slacking off so
Speaker 1: much under the old manager was because they hadn't given
Speaker 1: him much work to do or something like that. And
Speaker 1: if that's the situation, and he wasn't doing much because
Speaker 1: they hadn't delegated much to him, but he otherwise would
Speaker 1: have been happy to be working if there was any
Speaker 1: work to do, it's going to be pretty mortifying to
Speaker 1: him and maybe I mean upsetting really to be called
Speaker 1: on the carpet for that if it wasn't really within
Speaker 1: his control, and it's going to make him feel like
Speaker 1: he already has the strike with you, even though it
Speaker 1: wasn't a situation of his own making. Now that's giving
Speaker 1: him a huge amount of benefit of the doubt. But
Speaker 1: but there are potential I mean, who knows, who knows
Speaker 1: what was going on and why that slacking was happening,
Speaker 1: and why that manager, his old manager wasn't intervening. So
Speaker 1: I would give him that week, and during that week
Speaker 1: I would watch pretty closely and be ready to step
Speaker 1: in if you do notice anything problematic, But see how
Speaker 1: it goes first. Um, if there wasn't some sort of
Speaker 1: extenuating circumstance that puts his earlier behavior in a better light,
Speaker 1: then presumably that's going to show up pretty soon for
Speaker 1: you too, and you can address it very very head
Speaker 1: on when you do. But give him that week and
Speaker 1: see how it goes. We'll take a short break here
Speaker 1: and be right back with a question about employers who
Speaker 1: called references who were not on the reference list that
Speaker 1: you gave them. I have applied for positions before and
Speaker 1: been um given a heads up by colleagues that they
Speaker 1: were contacted to serve as reference for me, even though
Speaker 1: I hadn't listed them as references. You know that the
Speaker 1: place of employment had seen somewhere that I had worked
Speaker 1: with these people before and just contacted them out of
Speaker 1: the blue. Luckily, they all had great things to say.
Speaker 1: But I've also been on the other end of this
Speaker 1: where I have been contacted as a reference not having
Speaker 1: been listed, and um, the employer has been transparent about
Speaker 1: that that they were just sort of calling to see
Speaker 1: what I thought of this candidate. Is this okay? Is
Speaker 1: there's something that happens a lot, and if so, is it? Um?
Speaker 1: Is it okay? Or does a candidate have the right
Speaker 1: to control who gives them a reference when they apply somewhere?
Speaker 1: Thanks so much? You are talking about what are known
Speaker 1: as off list references a meeting. They are going off
Speaker 1: the list that you provided, and they're definitely common. From
Speaker 1: an employer point of view, It's pretty likely that when
Speaker 1: a candidate hands over a list and says, oh, here
Speaker 1: are my references, you can contact these people about me,
Speaker 1: it's pretty likely that they know that those are people
Speaker 1: who will say good things about them, and maybe that's
Speaker 1: going to give you a full picture of who they
Speaker 1: are as an employee, but maybe not, because if someone
Speaker 1: is kind of a not great employee, they may have
Speaker 1: sort of hands selected the very few people who will
Speaker 1: say something positive, So some employers won't always stick to
Speaker 1: the list that you give for exactly that reason. I
Speaker 1: will tell you what I personally do when I check references.
Speaker 1: When someone gives me a reference list, I really pay
Speaker 1: attention to who they have chosen to put on there.
Speaker 1: If it's like their last three managers, then great, that's
Speaker 1: pretty standard. It doesn't look like they're trying to hide anything.
Speaker 1: But if there's only one manager from like a decade ago,
Speaker 1: and all the more recent people are peers or other
Speaker 1: people who didn't manage them, I'm going to wonder why
Speaker 1: what's going on there that they're not offering up any managers,
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to directly ask, hey, could you
Speaker 1: put me in touch with your last couple of managers.
Speaker 1: The exception to that is for their current job. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to contact your boss at a job
Speaker 1: that you're still working at if you haven't given notice yet,
Speaker 1: because they could put your job in jeopardy. But if
Speaker 1: you have a few previous jobs before your current one
Speaker 1: and none of those managers are on the list, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna wonder why, and I'm going to ask if I
Speaker 1: can talk to them, and when I coach managers, I
Speaker 1: tell them they should be doing that too, because when
Speaker 1: you are checking references, first of all, you really want
Speaker 1: to get a full picture of someone, and you really
Speaker 1: want to talk to their managers, because managers just often
Speaker 1: have a different vantage point on someone's work, different than
Speaker 1: what other references might have for them, because it was
Speaker 1: their job to assess it, and often they see different things.
Speaker 1: And so if I got a reference list with few
Speaker 1: or no managers, I want to go digging into why.
Speaker 1: But the other thing that I do, and that a
Speaker 1: lot of employers do, is if I know someone who
Speaker 1: has worked with the candidate before, I'm going to contact
Speaker 1: that person about them, even if their name is not
Speaker 1: on that official reference list um whether it was their
Speaker 1: boss or a peer or whoever it might have been.
Speaker 1: If I know someone whose judgment I trust, who's worked
Speaker 1: with you before, I'm absolutely going to reach out to
Speaker 1: them and get their take. And that type of informal
Speaker 1: reference checking is super common, where you have mutual connections
Speaker 1: and they get contacted about you. There is another type
Speaker 1: of off list reference checking that some employers do, although
Speaker 1: it is less common. That's where they're reaching out to
Speaker 1: people not in your reference list and who also are
Speaker 1: not mutual connections, So they're just like calling up your
Speaker 1: last employer and asking about you. And when they talked
Speaker 1: to people, they might say something like, is there anyone
Speaker 1: else who Jane worked closely with who you would recommend
Speaker 1: that I talked to? And then they're calling those people.
Speaker 1: That's a lot less common. That's a very very thorough
Speaker 1: kind of check, but it does happen. Now. You also asked,
Speaker 1: does the candidate have the right to control he's giving
Speaker 1: them a reference? And the answer to that is no,
Speaker 1: at least in the US. I can't speak to other countries,
Speaker 1: But in the US an employer can seek out references
Speaker 1: for you from pretty much anyone they want. But the
Speaker 1: informal ones where they're just talking to mutual connections, that's
Speaker 1: the most frequent type of off list reference. And that's
Speaker 1: just pretty basic info sharing. You know, Hey, I see
Speaker 1: used to work with Jane Smith. I'm thinking about her
Speaker 1: for a job. What can you tell me? Okay, let's
Speaker 1: go to the next call, And before we do, I
Speaker 1: want to explain some of the terminology that you're going
Speaker 1: to hear this color using. You will hear her refer
Speaker 1: to people who are working five eights, which means five
Speaker 1: eight hour days each week, and four tens, which means
Speaker 1: for ten hour days each week. Okay, here is the call,
Speaker 1: Hello Wales, and one of my direct reports is the
Speaker 1: manager of a group of fifteen people. Proximately eight years ago,
Speaker 1: before I was around, this group of fifteen was much
Speaker 1: smaller at around eight or nine and the work was
Speaker 1: much less intense. As an experiment, the opportunity was given
Speaker 1: to the staff to work four ten hour shifts rather
Speaker 1: than the usual five eights. This worked well for a while.
Speaker 1: Now the team has grown, and has mentioned above, the
Speaker 1: scope and intensity of the work has also increased. Currently
Speaker 1: six people are on the modified four by ten schedule,
Speaker 1: with the rest of the team providing coverage for absences.
Speaker 1: I should note that we are a seven day week
Speaker 1: operation to some extent, with weekend schedules being covered by
Speaker 1: a skeleton crew made up of a mixture of folks
Speaker 1: who have a staggered work week, and by overtime shifts
Speaker 1: by the standard Monday through Friday employees. As we've grown
Speaker 1: and expanded, the four by ten shifts and the coverage
Speaker 1: concerns they cause have become an increasing problem. After a time,
Speaker 1: analysis and other considerations did not justify hiring additional staff.
Speaker 1: My report, the group's manager, and I have come to
Speaker 1: the conclusion that we need to pull everyone back to
Speaker 1: five eighths in order to consure adequate coverage. This has
Speaker 1: been suggested in the past by members of the team
Speaker 1: currently on the five eight schedule. Too much wailing and
Speaker 1: gnashing of teeth of the current four by ten and
Speaker 1: it's to the point where the business needs are showing
Speaker 1: us that we really do need to make this change.
Speaker 1: We're trying to be as kind as we can and
Speaker 1: the way that we announce this transition, but are struggling
Speaker 1: with the message, the timing, and the lead up to
Speaker 1: the implementation. Any advice on how to approach this. I
Speaker 1: would like to make it as straightforward and drama free
Speaker 1: as possible, and I'm aware that some folks may quit
Speaker 1: over this change, which would put us even more behind
Speaker 1: the eight ball we while we try to re stuff afterward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is tough for a lot of people working for
Speaker 1: ten hour days and getting three day weekends every week
Speaker 1: can be a really significant benefit, and it could be
Speaker 1: a blow to hear that that is changing. I think
Speaker 1: you're right to prepare for the possibility that some people
Speaker 1: make quit over it, but that's okay. People need to
Speaker 1: do what's best for them. What you want to avoid
Speaker 1: is people rage, quitting, being angry at how it's handled,
Speaker 1: or feeling like they weren't heard. If people quit, you
Speaker 1: want them doing it from the place of rational decision making,
Speaker 1: not irritation. So the best thing that you can do
Speaker 1: is to be really transparent about what's going on. Be
Speaker 1: open with people about the reasons for the change, the
Speaker 1: alternatives that you considered instead of this, and why you
Speaker 1: ultimately did pick this as the best solution. And tell
Speaker 1: people that you know that this is a major change,
Speaker 1: that you appreciate what a benefit the old schedule was,
Speaker 1: and that if there were alternatives, you would have taken them,
Speaker 1: but in this case, switching back to five eights is
Speaker 1: what made sense because of Blink. And tell people that
Speaker 1: you get it's a blow, and that you're available to
Speaker 1: answer questions or talk about concerns they might have, and
Speaker 1: if you can give people as much of a heads
Speaker 1: up as possible before that change happens, because people may
Speaker 1: have childcare schedules to work out or other scheduling issues
Speaker 1: that they'll need some lead time to address. You don't
Speaker 1: want to spring it on them without much notice. And
Speaker 1: of course, if people do tell you that they're rethinking
Speaker 1: whether the job will still make sense for them, don't
Speaker 1: penalize them for telling you that. Let them know that
Speaker 1: you understand and that you hope they'll stay, but that
Speaker 1: you support them in doing what's best for them. Beyond that,
Speaker 1: though there's not a ton you can do, people are
Speaker 1: going to feel how they feel, and some might decide
Speaker 1: that this changes the calculation of whether the job still
Speaker 1: makes sense for them, And that's okay as long as
Speaker 1: you're open and transparent and hear people out about their
Speaker 1: concerns and genuinely listen with an open mind and be
Speaker 1: willing to be flexible where you can. That's about all
Speaker 1: you can do to manage a tough situation. Well, but
Speaker 1: those things will go a long way. The difference between
Speaker 1: doing those things and not doing them is pretty significant.
Speaker 1: We'll do a final break care and when we come back,
Speaker 1: we have an update from a recent caller who came
Speaker 1: on the show. Hi, Alison, I'm a fairly senior lawyer
Speaker 1: at a large law firm on a partner truck and
Speaker 1: I have decided after I was passed over for partnership
Speaker 1: this year for again not having an instillable hours, I've
Speaker 1: decided that I need to find something that allows me
Speaker 1: a little bit more work life balance because I have
Speaker 1: two small children whom I'm trying to parent properly, and
Speaker 1: hobbies that I like to have, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just generally, I just need a different balance in my life.
Speaker 1: So my question to you is, so i'm reading your blog,
Speaker 1: it seems like being a lawyer, particularly at a at
Speaker 1: a large, large law firm, is one of those jobs
Speaker 1: that typically is understood to just not be skewed towards balance. UM.
Speaker 1: So I take hope from that that there are jobs
Speaker 1: out there that I can achieve some sense of, um,
Speaker 1: being able to serve other parts of my life besides work. However,
Speaker 1: what I would like to know is, when I'm interviewing,
Speaker 1: how can I get across the idea that I'm leaving
Speaker 1: my job in order to be able to spend more
Speaker 1: time doing other things without sounding like I don't want
Speaker 1: to work hard. I'm happy to work hard. The way
Speaker 1: I've been framing it in the few, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of headhunter conversations that I've been having is I want
Speaker 1: to be the client. I don't want to be the
Speaker 1: service provider, because it's really the on call nature that
Speaker 1: I'm really struggling with. But I've also mentioned saying things
Speaker 1: like I don't mind working hard. I'm happy to work
Speaker 1: nights and weekends. I'm happy to travel. I just don't
Speaker 1: want it to be every night or every weekend. Anyway.
Speaker 1: I would love your opinion about how to make it
Speaker 1: sound like I'm not just looking for part time. I
Speaker 1: don't want to coast. It's not that I just I'm
Speaker 1: not doing anything but work and parenting, and I need
Speaker 1: to do things like sleep and exercise occasionally. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I love your site. Thanks for everything you do.
Speaker 1: This is going to be easier than you think it is.
Speaker 1: You are absolutely right that people generally know that being
Speaker 1: a lawyer at a large firm means absolutely crazy hours
Speaker 1: and no work life balance. So you can really lean
Speaker 1: on that in explaining why you're looking for something else now,
Speaker 1: because people will get it. You can just say something
Speaker 1: like I love my work, but I'm ready to move
Speaker 1: on from eighty hour weeks and I'm looking for a
Speaker 1: job where I can still work hard, but also where
Speaker 1: being able to have dinner with my family won't be
Speaker 1: a novelty, and that's all. You don't need more explanation
Speaker 1: beyond that, you're not going to sound like you're looking
Speaker 1: to coast or not work much. People know there's a
Speaker 1: middle ground between crazy law firm hours and part time hours,
Speaker 1: and most of the population is in that middle ground.
Speaker 1: For what it's worth, I would not use that framing
Speaker 1: that you mentioned about wanting to be the client not
Speaker 1: the service provider. I don't think it's totally clear what
Speaker 1: you mean there, and you don't want to confuse people,
Speaker 1: and it's also possible that they'll take that as meaning
Speaker 1: something different than how you intend it. I think you're
Speaker 1: using that because you feel like you need to have
Speaker 1: more of an explanation than you do. But really, it
Speaker 1: is totally fine to just say you were working eighty
Speaker 1: hour weeks or whatever it was and are ready to
Speaker 1: live like a more normal human being. You could even
Speaker 1: use you could even use that language, but being wanting
Speaker 1: to be a normal human you don't need anything more
Speaker 1: than that. People will get it and you will be fine.
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, I want to share an update
Speaker 1: that I got from the caller who was on last
Speaker 1: week's show the episode called My co Worker is Unbearably Negative.
Speaker 1: She's the person who had to work closely with someone
Speaker 1: who was doing a couple of difficult things. One was
Speaker 1: that she was just talking NonStop, including just talking out
Speaker 1: loud to herself while sharing workspace with the Collar. And second,
Speaker 1: she was just really really negative, like unrelenting lee negative,
Speaker 1: constantly injecting their shared space with negativity, which was getting
Speaker 1: hard to handle. The Collar had even said she felt
Speaker 1: like she was sort of an unconsenting therapist to this
Speaker 1: coworker because it was just this stream of negative problems
Speaker 1: in her life. Well, she recorded an update about was
Speaker 1: happened since she was on the show. Let's hear it. Hi, Allison,
Speaker 1: I'm the letter writer that recorded the podcast with you
Speaker 1: about my coworker who wanted me to be her non
Speaker 1: consensual therapist. And thank you so much again for taking
Speaker 1: the time to talk over the issues that I was
Speaker 1: having with her, and I wanted to let you know
Speaker 1: how that's been going. And you know, I've been keeping
Speaker 1: my unusual coping strategies like taking a lot of breaks
Speaker 1: and having a lot of work to do um which
Speaker 1: hasn't been hard I've had a lot of work to do.
Speaker 1: And at one point she came in and I was
Speaker 1: doing a stack of calls, and um, you know, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: I got a lot of work to get through, so
Speaker 1: I may not be as talkative today, um, even though
Speaker 1: I'm not a talkative one. But I said that, and
Speaker 1: she said she said okay, and she started to do
Speaker 1: that thing again where she talked out loud to herself
Speaker 1: and just says negative things out loud. And I just
Speaker 1: turned and said, hey, Jane, would you mind not talking
Speaker 1: out loud like that. It's just kind of distracting for me.
Speaker 1: And she totally stopped, and I just so appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And because you know, while she was a little happy
Speaker 1: at first, I think I was just being so reasonable
Speaker 1: that she wasn't going to push back on that. And
Speaker 1: I just can't even believe it was this symbol of
Speaker 1: a solution to get that to stop. Um. And then
Speaker 1: as for the negativity kind of stuff where she's just
Speaker 1: really negative. You shared an anecdote with me on the
Speaker 1: show about your mom and how sometimes she just gets
Speaker 1: a kind of like a kind of twisted joy out
Speaker 1: of sharing that experiences almost like a way to connect
Speaker 1: um and I started to see things that Jane was
Speaker 1: saying that way, and it really really helped because I
Speaker 1: was less frustrated, um, I was let I was able
Speaker 1: to use my normal coping strategies. But just having that
Speaker 1: different mindset and attitude about her and about why she
Speaker 1: does that really made a difference and made me be
Speaker 1: able to have better empathy for her um as that
Speaker 1: was going on and not take that negativity in quite
Speaker 1: so hard. So it's not perfect, but it's way way better.
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for your show and your website.
Speaker 1: As didn't just really appreciate um all the work you
Speaker 1: do here because I know there's a lot find the scenes,
Speaker 1: So thanks so much. That is a great update. It's
Speaker 1: so interesting how sometimes solutions to things that are really
Speaker 1: bothering us can end up being much more simple and
Speaker 1: more straightforward than what we're fearing they will be. So
Speaker 1: that's a testament to what you can get done by
Speaker 1: just being direct, friendly, but direct. That's our show for today.
Speaker 1: If you would like to hear your question answered on
Speaker 1: a future episode, you can record it on the show
Speaker 1: voicemail by calling eight five five four two six work.
Speaker 1: That's eight by five two six nine, six, seven five,
Speaker 1: Or if you have a longer question, a question where
Speaker 1: you would actually want to come on the show and
Speaker 1: talk with me, email it to podcast at ask a
Speaker 1: manager dot org. That's it for today and I will
Speaker 1: be back next time with more questions. M