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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Ricky Close is here, relationship writer. I actually found

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Speaker 2: you via Instagram. I've been following you and stalking you

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Speaker 2: for quite some time, so.

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Speaker 3: It's always nice. Yeah, it's nice to actually.

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Speaker 2: Connect with the people that you feel like you know

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Speaker 2: because you follow them on Instagram. But you have your

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Speaker 2: Instagram is Anxious Heart's Guide, where you give insight and

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Speaker 2: tips on anxious and avoidant attachment styles. You also speak

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Speaker 2: from personal experience, and I love hearing about your relationship

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Speaker 2: before we get started. I just wanted to I feel

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Speaker 2: like I said this to you before the podcast, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like most people these days in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three have heard about attachment styles, Like if you open Instagram,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's everywhere, and so maybe they have

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Speaker 2: some surface level understanding. But could you kind of just address,

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Speaker 2: like what attachment styles are, what the different ones are,

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Speaker 2: and kind of give us a basic foundation for each

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Speaker 2: one before we get into this conversation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do that.

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Speaker 5: I think it's a very hot topic right now, so

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Speaker 5: you do see it floating around all over Instagram. But

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Speaker 5: one of the dangers of that is that everybody has

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Speaker 5: kind of this surface level understanding of it. Everybody's trying

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Speaker 5: to diagnose themselves or their partners. So hopefully the listeners

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Speaker 5: today can get a sense of a bigger understanding for

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Speaker 5: what attachment theory is and what it does and what

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Speaker 5: it describes, and maybe also what it doesn't do. I

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Speaker 5: think there's we're missing a lot of that on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: So oh yeah, well that makes me excited.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, okay, cool.

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Speaker 5: So attachment theory is how psychologists describe sets of behaviors

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Speaker 5: that we tend to engage in in intimate relationships when

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Speaker 5: we're trying to seek safety. So just from that right there,

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Speaker 5: I want everybody to understand that this is not like

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Speaker 5: your hardwired personality type. And I think that's one of

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Speaker 5: the biggest myths out there on Instagram, is like, if

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Speaker 5: you see the characteristics of an anxious attacher or or

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Speaker 5: if you see the characteristics of an avoidant attacher and

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Speaker 5: that sounds like your partner, These aren't like hardwired things

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Speaker 5: that we can't find our way out of.

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Speaker 4: And it seems like there's a lot of misunderstanding there

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Speaker 4: and it.

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Speaker 5: Makes me so sad. There's a lot of hopelessness too.

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Speaker 5: Like I if somebody identifies as an anxious attacher and

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Speaker 5: they see the bullet points saying clinging and desperate and

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Speaker 5: they're like, ah, that's who I am, and that's who

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Speaker 5: I'll always be, and they start to view their partner

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Speaker 5: as this person who's always distancing too. Yeah, let's squash

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Speaker 5: that myth today here on this episode. Okay, we're describing

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Speaker 5: sets of behaviors that we tend to engage in that

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Speaker 5: we can kind of train ourselves out of.

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Speaker 4: I love that's hopeful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that hope because and I actually think

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Speaker 2: that's what I'm what it's kind of mentioning, Like I've

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Speaker 2: been talking your page for a long time.

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Speaker 4: I think that is what I see. Is this like good?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because I told.

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Speaker 2: You, like I've done some work around this stuff, and

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Speaker 2: when you start diving into it, you're like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: just trying to get safe, and for whatever reason, something

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Speaker 2: happened along my journey that kind of tricked my brain

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Speaker 2: into thinking, you know, I'm not safe, and so I'm

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Speaker 2: having I'm bringing that into this relationship. So there's a

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Speaker 2: couple of ways that you've mentioned so far is anxious

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Speaker 2: and avoidant. So are those the two main attacks?

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Speaker 5: So the two well, you know what, let's go into

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Speaker 5: the different styles. There's actually three main styles, and honestly,

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Speaker 5: secure attachers are supposed to be the biggest group.

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Speaker 4: So we've got isn't that.

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Speaker 2: Wild someone I'm like, someone told me it was like

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of people are secure attachers, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: where are they?

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Speaker 4: Though? Yeah, don't you know what.

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Speaker 5: Totally secure attachers tend to partner up pretty young. Those

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Speaker 5: are the people who are splitting off in their twenties,

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Speaker 5: like getting married, getting married young and having pretty stable,

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Speaker 5: pretty normal looking, safe feeling relationships. So we're not I'm

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Speaker 5: in my thirties, we're not encountering lots of those people

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Speaker 5: in the dating field in our thirties because they've widely

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Speaker 5: pared off. Yeah, the research shows it's roughly fifty percent.

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Speaker 5: So let's talk a little bit about the secure attachers.

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Speaker 5: These people are comfortable with closeness. Relationships feel kind of

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Speaker 5: easy for them. They're not scary unsafe places. They experienced

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Speaker 5: closeness with their parents and in early romantic experiences that

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Speaker 5: made them view relationships as feeling safe, nurturing, and healthy

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Speaker 5: and predictable, so they're not spinning their wheels trying to

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Speaker 5: figure out why someone said something, because in their mind,

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Speaker 5: a relationship is kind of a safe place, and if

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Speaker 5: it starts to feel like an unsafe place, they're probably

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Speaker 5: going to set some boundaries down or exit the relationship

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Speaker 5: if it's not working for them. That's the dream, right

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Speaker 5: you and me, and maybe lots of people listening to.

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Speaker 4: This are like, Wow, that is not my experience.

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Speaker 5: So I guess first, I'm probably going to talk about

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Speaker 5: avoidant attachers a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Okay, if you're.

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Speaker 5: Watching a movie and it seems like one person's chasing

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Speaker 5: and one person's desperately trying to get away and maintain

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Speaker 5: their independence, that would be an avoidantly attached person. Probably

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Speaker 5: these people tend to find safety in themselves. They might

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Speaker 5: describe themselves as a lone wolf, or they're like fiercely independent.

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Speaker 5: They're kind of afraid to ask for help. They have

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Speaker 5: a generally negative view of relationships because in their experience,

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Speaker 5: relationships are places where they have not been able to

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Speaker 5: get their needs met. People are unreliable in their experience.

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Speaker 4: The only way to.

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Speaker 5: Feel safety is in themselves. Their core fear is a

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Speaker 5: fear of closeness. So so their big goal is to

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Speaker 5: when when when the stuff hits the fan, Avoidant attachers

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Speaker 5: are gonna distance and try to calm themselves and just

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Speaker 5: try to take care of business themselves because people let

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Speaker 5: them down.

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Speaker 4: That's their that's their worldview.

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Speaker 5: Okay, which might describe maybe the people that you've tried

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Speaker 5: to have romantic relations all of them, Yeah, okay, same, same, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there's like one I can think of who wasn't,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, everyone else.

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Speaker 5: Awesome, Okay, and I awesome, it's a terrible experience. Awesome

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Speaker 5: because I can relate to that, right, Yes, Avoidant attachers

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Speaker 5: are like they're like my kryptonite, Like I can't stay

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Speaker 5: away from them. I actually admire a lot how independent

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Speaker 5: they are and and they I don't know, they just

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Speaker 5: seem omnipotent, like they can do anything they want. And

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Speaker 5: there's something really appealing for that to to anxious attachers,

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Speaker 5: which is how I relate and probably you from the

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Speaker 5: sound of it. So, an anxious attacher is somebody who

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Speaker 5: only seems to find safety in other people. We lack

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Speaker 5: self trust. We're very nervous and afraid that people are

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Speaker 5: going to abandon us. And this comes, unfortunately, when we're

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Speaker 5: really young, from kind of inconsistent care, or what we

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Speaker 5: perceive as inconsistent care. We might have noticed that our

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Speaker 5: parents were very close and loving and then they were gone,

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Speaker 5: so in our mind, the only way to stay safe

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Speaker 5: is to be constantly looking out for signs that they're

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Speaker 5: going to leave. We might have felt abandoned by a

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Speaker 5: romantic relationship when we're when we're young in our first

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Speaker 5: romantic relationships. It can come from that place too, So yeah,

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Speaker 5: our way of finding safety is becoming hyper vigilant looking

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Speaker 5: for signs of abandonment and trying to stay ahead of those.

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Speaker 5: Also maybe taking ourselves and putting ourselves and our needs

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Speaker 5: aside so that we can just be Johnny on the

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Speaker 5: spot for our significant other, you know, doing whatever they

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Speaker 5: need to feel safe and important and loved, because we're

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Speaker 5: protecting ourselves against our core fear of abandonment.

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Speaker 4: Okay, sounds familiar.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and I know that. When I first learned

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Speaker 5: about all this stuff, I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 5: that's one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: Me and I'm doomed, Like that's what I thought. I

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Speaker 4: was like, Yeah, my only prayer is.

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Speaker 5: To find somebody who's secure and very comfortable with closeness

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Speaker 5: so that they can give me all the closeness that

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Speaker 5: I've been missing from these people who are running away

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Speaker 5: from me. And I think a lot of people think that.

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Speaker 5: I get a lot of comments on the page from

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Speaker 5: people going like, ah, screw Avoidance. I don't ever want

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Speaker 5: to talk to them again. I only want someone who's secure,

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Speaker 5: or maybe another anxious person so that we can just

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Speaker 5: live in our little burrito cocoon and never leave each other.

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Speaker 5: And those comments make me really sad too. Why do

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Speaker 5: they make it sad if Avoidance are doomed and not

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Speaker 5: worthy of being loved, so are anxious because you're two

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Speaker 5: sides of the same coin, right, Well, honestly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, No, I'm just gonna let's talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about that because obviously most people that I

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Speaker 2: see doing this kind of work, including me, And it's

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Speaker 2: it's interesting because I do feel like I'm moving into

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Speaker 2: a more secure attachment style. Yeah, and we can get

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Speaker 2: into that a little bit later, but I just feel

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Speaker 2: like most people who talk about this have had some

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Speaker 2: personal experience with it, Like you know, you see therapists.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing it, but most of them too will say

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Speaker 2: like this was me back in the day or whatever,

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Speaker 2: And so I kind of want to give listeners a

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Speaker 2: little background into your story if you're sure in that,

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Speaker 2: and just like what your relationships looks like, because I

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Speaker 2: think then we can talk about what you're really relationship

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Speaker 2: is now and maybe the difference.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely those dynamics.

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Speaker 5: Cool, okay, And I always try to tell this story,

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Speaker 5: the story as if the other people in it are listening, like,

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Speaker 5: I want to be really compassionate and kind about anyone

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Speaker 5: who's involved here.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: So I got married very young, okay, and my marriage.

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Speaker 5: Was pretty good until the end when it was less

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Speaker 5: good and we really we really got into that pursuer

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Speaker 5: distancer dynamic like in a big way. And I love psychology,

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Speaker 5: I always have. So I started reading a lot to

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Speaker 5: try to figure out what was going on with.

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Speaker 4: Us, and I still anxious move. It's such an anxious move,

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Speaker 4: it it is. I was like pressing for straws.

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Speaker 3: There.

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Speaker 5: I stumbled on attachment theory and I even showed it

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Speaker 5: to my ex husband. I was like, check this out.

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Speaker 5: There's this dynamic where somebody's always trying to get close

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Speaker 5: to the other person's always trying.

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Speaker 4: To get away. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Even when he saw it, he was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 5: that's us. That's exactly what we're going through. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: the main book that I was looking at at that

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Speaker 5: time was Attached. And don't get me wrong, I love Attached.

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Speaker 5: It's a wonderful book. Yeah, but there's no hope in Attached.

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Speaker 5: Attached is like you are this, you are this, and

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Speaker 5: these people suck together.

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Speaker 4: They are not going to have any kind of healthy thing.

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Speaker 5: And I don't believe that at all. Now the author,

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Speaker 5: uh Levine, he's even gone on to say, I wish

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Speaker 5: that I hadn't written it that way. I know there

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Speaker 5: are so many divorces and breakups because of the way

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Speaker 5: that I presented this information.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, I didn't know that. Okay, mm hmm yep.

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Speaker 5: And I was so glad when you put that out there.

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Speaker 5: But I was like, the damage is already done. That

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Speaker 5: Your book's one of the reasons I got divorced. Right,

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Speaker 5: So we did end up splitting up because we didn't

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Speaker 5: even with couples counseling, we didn't have any hope that

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Speaker 5: we could change this dynamic.

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Speaker 4: So then there I am.

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Speaker 5: Early thirties thrown back into the dating field, which was

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Speaker 5: so weird because the last time I dated before that

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Speaker 5: was like the early two thousands. It was like a

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Speaker 5: dating on a different planet. And I end up meeting

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Speaker 5: my current partner now, Chris. Even though I was doing

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Speaker 5: so much research because I just loved attachment theory, I

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Speaker 5: couldn't stop reading about it. I found myself a super

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Speaker 5: attractive and very interesting raging avoidance and that was that

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Speaker 5: was Chris.

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Speaker 3: Like a magnets though right it was. It was a

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Speaker 3: whole party.

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Speaker 2: And you put now with these like active attachment styles

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Speaker 2: and a ring with a million other people, they'll find

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 4: It's just the way it works. No, he had like

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Speaker 4: a glowing aura around him. When I saw him, I

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Speaker 4: was like, that's the one I want here I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 5: Still very embroiled in my anxious attachment even though I

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Speaker 5: knew what it was. I wasn't far enough into my

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Speaker 5: work that I was really finding my way out of

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Speaker 5: it yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I started dating him and we went immediately into

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Speaker 5: this like hardcore pursuer distance or dynamic, like even worse

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Speaker 5: than in my marriage. And that's not to say that

248
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Speaker 5: we had a bad relationship, but like all the classic things,

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Speaker 5: me texting too much, me looking for a relationship label

250
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Speaker 5: way too soon, me wanting to know all of his

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Speaker 5: romantic history so that I could figure out ways that

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't mess up, and him working too much, dodging

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Speaker 5: my phone calls, going out of town and not saying goodbye,

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Speaker 5: and not you know, giving me any heads up about

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Speaker 5: where he was. We were a mess, like a mess,

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Speaker 5: A mess. Yeah, And we kept kind of being a

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Speaker 5: mess and end breaking up and coming back together never

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Speaker 5: more than a day.

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Speaker 4: People always ask that, like, oh, did you ever split

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Speaker 4: up for three months? No.

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Speaker 5: We would have a fight or an argument and we

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Speaker 5: would say, well, that's it. We just sucked together. We're

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Speaker 5: in our thirties, we're not going to waste our time.

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Speaker 5: And then twenty four hours.

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Speaker 4: Would go by and we would call again and be like,

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Speaker 4: this is dumb. I don't want to not be you.

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Speaker 4: I just don't want to have this argument. So instead

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Speaker 4: of instead of.

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Speaker 5: Sitting him down and going you're an avoidant, and here's

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Speaker 5: all the things that you need to do. I knew

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Speaker 5: from my reading how bad that was, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: you know what, screw it, I'm just going to spend

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Speaker 5: the next like solid year working on myself, working on

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Speaker 5: these things, reading all the books relating to the topics

275
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Speaker 5: within anxious attachment, and seeing if I can do anything

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Speaker 5: about that, because when we can change our own side

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Speaker 5: of the dynamic, it changes the entire atmosphere of the relationship.

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Speaker 5: And I thought, I don't want to leave this guy.

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Speaker 5: I'm not ready for that, So I'm just going to

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Speaker 5: work on myself and see what happens. And I got

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Speaker 5: to tell you, a year and a half in to

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Speaker 5: this work, he came to me and he sat down

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Speaker 5: and he said, I don't know what's going on, but

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Speaker 5: you're a completely different person than the person I met

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Speaker 5: in the best way, and I want in. He's like,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what you're doing with your time, and

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Speaker 5: you're in all this weird reading, but like you're so

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Speaker 5: calm and it feels so safe talking to you now,

289
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Speaker 5: and you're not up and down with all your emotions.

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Speaker 5: He's like, I don't know what you're doing, but let's

291
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Speaker 5: do it. I want to figure out what's going on too.

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Speaker 5: And then he started reading books with me and he

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Speaker 5: would have talks with me about the relationship. So hopefully,

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Speaker 5: hopefully that's very hopeful for people. He was the avoidantist

295
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Speaker 5: of the avoidant that I've ever met. Yeah, and just

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Speaker 5: by making myself a safe place to land, someone to

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Speaker 5: talk to who's not accusing him of things or honestly,

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Speaker 5: my reading about avoidant attachment helped a lot too, because

299
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Speaker 5: then I was able to take the things that he

300
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Speaker 5: was doing one hundred percent less personally.

301
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Speaker 2: Well, you just hit the big nail on the head,

302
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Speaker 2: because I think as a person who's been anxious in

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Speaker 2: certain relationships, and to me, what I'm also looking at

304
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Speaker 2: now is like, and I don't know if you feel

305
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 2: this way, but I don't feel anxious in all my

306
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Speaker 2: relationship and so it was like, sure, starting to kind

307
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: of recognize when it comes up for me, and it's

308
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Speaker 2: typically like when there's an avoidant on the other side

309
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Speaker 2: of that dynamic, it'll just happen. And so if I'm unaware,

310
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Speaker 2: then I'm kind of just operating this constant trigger. But

311
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Speaker 2: I like what you said about not personalizing it, because yes,

312
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Speaker 2: the more I've learned about avoidant behavior too, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's their way to get to safety. I want to

314
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Speaker 2: go connect and I want to talk it through, and

315
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Speaker 2: I just want to get to the other side of

316
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Speaker 2: it and know that we're good. They need to like retreat,

317
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Speaker 2: and so it's that finding that balance.

318
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Speaker 4: But I want to.

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Speaker 2: Also ask because I feel like the thing that I

320
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Speaker 2: struggle with the most in this is just the fine

321
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Speaker 2: line between staying with yourself and not abandoning your own

322
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Speaker 2: needs versus like being able to show up and respect

323
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Speaker 2: another person's needs as well. We love that so different.

324
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Speaker 2: So can you allow us to start navigation?

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Let's let's pick a really concrete example. Okay, let's pick

327
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Speaker 5: so my partner, he loves to travel, and he loves

328
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Speaker 5: little adventures, and sometimes his adventures. Oh, he's also very spontaneous,

329
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Speaker 5: so sometimes he doesn't plan his adventures out. He just

330
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Speaker 5: gets it in his head that he's going to go

331
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Speaker 5: do something, especially if things are getting uncomfortable between us two,

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Speaker 5: those are.

333
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Speaker 4: The best times for him to adventure, right, because that's

334
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Speaker 4: why it gets his distance.

335
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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I knew that if things were getting especially

336
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,199
Speaker 5: if they were really good, you know, like if we

337
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,959
Speaker 5: spent the whole weekend cuddling, that would be like a

338
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Speaker 5: signal for his brain to get the head out of

339
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Speaker 5: what is that.

340
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Speaker 3: I'm like the second, I start to feel good, where

341
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Speaker 3: did you go?

342
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Speaker 5: Okay, So let's let's say that we've spent the entire

343
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Speaker 5: weekend all snuggled up and it feels really great. We've

344
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Speaker 5: been talking about our feelings, right, Oh man, that triggers

345
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 5: them more than that.

346
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Speaker 4: Oh god.

347
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Speaker 5: So then and then Monday rolls around and his brain

348
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 5: is like, get some distance, right, So, knowing a little

349
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 5: bit about avoidant attachment, I figured it was coming right, like,

350
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 5: all right, this was a good weekend.

351
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 4: He's going to want some distance now, and.

352
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 5: I can if I call him on Monday and I'm like, hey,

353
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,160
Speaker 5: wasn't that a great weekend?

354
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Speaker 1: Yeah?

355
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Speaker 4: It was.

356
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Speaker 5: I was like He's like, yeah, I'm just packing my stuff.

357
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 4: I'm heading out. It's like cool.

358
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Speaker 5: It's like, hey, I love that you are getting out

359
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 5: doing something that you love. Like that is so you like,

360
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 5: go have an adventure. But and this is really scary.

361
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,639
Speaker 5: Brace yourselfs anxious hearts. This is not going to be

362
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 5: fun to hear. I had to learn to set boundaries

363
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 5: with him, like the moment you start feeling like you

364
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 5: need to jet and take some adventure if you want

365
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 5: to be with me and you want me to be

366
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 5: happy and I think you do. You got to tell me, like,

367
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 5: I can't be somebody who just calls you and you're

368
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 5: gone for three days all of a sudden. And I

369
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 5: was like, if that's what you wanted to do, if

370
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,479
Speaker 5: that's like who you are and who you want to be, Like,

371
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 5: I'm okay with that, but it's not going to work

372
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 5: for me in a romantic relationship, will be platonic buddies

373
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 5: or nothing at all. If that's how it is. If

374
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 5: you want me as your romantic partner, you just got

375
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 5: to do that. And that's scary because a lot of

376
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 5: people are listening to this going crap. I might have

377
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 5: to let this person go because they might make the

378
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,400
Speaker 5: decision that they're like, not, I don't want to check

379
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,439
Speaker 5: in with someone, you know, I don't want to. I

380
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 5: don't want to compromise and listen to somebody's boundaries. But honestly,

381
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 5: like I'm telling you, I hate to sound callous, but

382
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,719
Speaker 5: you don't. You don't want to be with somebody who

383
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 5: doesn't care about making you feel safe in a relationship.

384
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 4: Or maybe you don't want to. You can't. It's not sustainable.

385
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. Well, I love the idea

386
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 2: of the boundary setting because that's sort of that hits

387
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: on the line that I was talking about, but totally

388
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 2: like I hear what you're saying, and it's like, Okay,

389
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,479
Speaker 2: he would jet off and leave and that would be

390
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 2: really hurtful and weird and give me kind of anxiety.

391
00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it all.

392
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: It feels different than like if he was y'all got

393
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: really close to he was like, oh I gotta go

394
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 2: like cheat or something, which I've been.

395
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 4: That's different.

396
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's definitely lines, and I mean that was

397
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 2: an extreme example maybe, but like you know.

398
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 4: Not really though not really a lot of a lot

399
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 4: of people.

400
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 5: Listening who Yeah, unfortunately, Oh I'm gonna hate myself for

401
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 5: saying this, But sometimes avoidance are more likely to cheat

402
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 5: because they're desperate to get that distance, and sometimes inserting

403
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 5: another person into the situation is like an excellent way

404
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 5: to do that.

405
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 4: So it's just a wall. Yeah, it's a wall. But

406
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 4: that can be a boundary too though. That's like, no,

407
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 4: it totally is deal breaking for me.

408
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,640
Speaker 5: Yes, as anxious attachers or even secure attachers, we have

409
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 5: to be sure of what our what our boundary is

410
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 5: and be willing to let somebody go who who can't

411
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 5: fulfill that. If you are somebody who needs a message

412
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 5: every day or a phone call every day and somebody

413
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 5: is not willing to do that, we have to be

414
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 5: willing to let that person go. If it's somebody who's

415
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 5: not willing to give their little side partners up, we

416
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 5: have to be willing to let that person go. If

417
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 5: it's someone who's married who's not willing to get divorced

418
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 5: to be with you, you have to be willing to

419
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 5: let that person go.

420
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 2: Well. And the crazy thing is is, as I hear

421
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: you say that, I would imagine a secure attacher would be.

422
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 3: Like dud duh, yeah, yeah, exactly, And I.

423
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,959
Speaker 2: Can relate to that now, like this is how I

424
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 2: know I've grown in my life is because that is

425
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 2: how I date.

426
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 4: Now, Yes, good, thank you, it's awesome.

427
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: But it's taken me really addressing why I was so

428
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: scared to say, what like looking at well, what happens

429
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 2: to me if they go like that was something that

430
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: I couldn't even get to that question with myself because

431
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 2: it would just ignite my nervous system so much at

432
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: the thought of them leaving, even though the relationship could

433
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 2: be terrible, like, yeah, good for me.

434
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 4: I was miserable, but.

435
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 2: The idea of them leaving felt so scary to me

436
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: that I was like, no, we can work through this.

437
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 2: Are like I can get another book or you know, okay, yeah,

438
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: go ahead, go ahead.

439
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 4: That let's dive into that too.

440
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 5: So so the fear, the fear for anxious attachers is

441
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 5: that if we've got so much of our self worth

442
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 5: and our identity tied up in that person, right, if

443
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 5: they leave, we're gone. I always relate it to somebody who.

444
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 5: I relate the anxious attachers to someone who can't swim,

445
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 5: Like we're all hanging out in this ocean together, but

446
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 5: the anxious attachers can't swim. We're we're holding on to

447
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 5: people who we believe can swim, and if they swim

448
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 5: away from us, we're drowning.

449
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 4: People are our.

450
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 5: Lifeboats, and that's why we do anything that we can

451
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 5: to keep holding onto them, because we literally feel like

452
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 5: we may die if they if they leave us, you know,

453
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 5: or at least are who we think we are.

454
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 4: Will die, and that's terrifying. So I talk about this

455
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 4: a lot in my book.

456
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 5: Our salvation here is learning how to swim and the

457
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 5: way that we learn how to swim is that we

458
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 5: spend a lot of time and energy building up an

459
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 5: identity for ourselves that's separate from anybody else. That might

460
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 5: ring true for you in your work on codependency right

461
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 5: self forth is that's tough to talk about, but some

462
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 5: concrete examples of ways that we build up self worth

463
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 5: are exercise exercises is a fantastic way to.

464
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 4: Spend a little bit of time every day showing ourselves

465
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 4: that we are worth working on. Right.

466
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 5: I just love it because it's concrete and you get

467
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 5: you get to see actual results from it, so that

468
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 5: part's nice. Self worth work could be spending extra time

469
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 5: with friends and family, people that were sure care about us,

470
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 5: They feel great to be around, they care about We

471
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 5: know that they have our best interests at heart, so

472
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 5: that's yeah, so that's nice. It can also be the

473
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 5: work that we do journaling, like looking into ourselves. I

474
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 5: always mentioned journaling, but if you're not a journaler, you

475
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 5: can draw pictures, anything that you can do to ask yourself,

476
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 5: what do I like, what do I need? What things

477
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 5: feel good, what things don't feel good? Figuring out like

478
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 5: kind of meeting yourself and figuring out who you are,

479
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 5: gives yourself a very solid identity, and all those things

480
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 5: help us swim so that if somebody else does decide

481
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 5: to leave us, we know that we're still there treading

482
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 5: water and we're okay.

483
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

484
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if you relate to this, but one

485
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 2: of the main things that has helped me in the

486
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: past couple of years is just realizing that I was

487
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: getting into these relationships so focused on not being abandoned

488
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: by my partner, but not realizing that the whole time,

489
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: I was abandoning myself and so like my I was

490
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: asking someone else to do for me something I wasn't

491
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: willing or capable of doing for myself. And so the

492
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 2: more that I've started to heal my personal relationship with

493
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: myself and actually pay attention to myself, like not just

494
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: go out and try to seek it through even work,

495
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: I can find different activities to kind of like find

496
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: my worth in, but actually just like sitting with myself,

497
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: asking myself what I need, what I need, like literally giving.

498
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 4: Myself a hug.

499
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: That I do this every morning, like I give myself

500
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: love a hug and say I.

501
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 5: Love that I started doing that too. How awkward was

502
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 5: it at first? Oh my god, I'm hugging myself. I

503
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 5: feel so lame it was, But I don't know if

504
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 5: you feel this.

505
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: The second I do it, it's like I get tingles

506
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: in my gut, Like it's like my body just wants

507
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: to be acknowledged, you know. And so the more I

508
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: fill up in those ways which sound would sound so

509
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: frustrating to me back in the day when people would

510
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: be like, oh, well, your self worth is just low,

511
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: I'm like whatever, I like.

512
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so how do I right? Exactly?

513
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: Like I didn't really realize the broken relationship with myself.

514
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: And so anyway, the more that I've done that, the

515
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: less weight relationships in general even have all my life, Like, yeah,

516
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: it can kind of let people ebb and flower in

517
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: relationship so far like that I've been dating again, it's like, great,

518
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: people come in, but I do have a very like

519
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: if this is what I need, and if you can't

520
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: do this, not in a harsh way at all, in

521
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: a very like loving the most surrendered way I've ever

522
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: done it. And it's been interesting because people can kind

523
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: of come in and out and I can respect their

524
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: journey as well.

525
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, isn't that freeing? Oh?

526
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: Oh, oh my God, the amount of time. Like the

527
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: other thing I wanted to touch on is if you're

528
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: listening and you're like, oh, I'm not codependent, because like

529
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: that sounds pathetic, Like to me, anxious attachers sound desperate sometimes,

530
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 2: and we are, but it's not like a person like

531
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't look like what you necess would think it

532
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: would look like, Like.

533
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 4: It totally doesn't. I'm telling yeah, go ahead.

534
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 5: The folks who I knew in my life outside of

535
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 5: my relationship were like, oh, Ricky, you're you're such a

536
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 5: caring person. You're so great, Like clearly everybody that you're

537
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 5: with or jerks, that's what's going on exactly right, Like

538
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 5: they couldn't even see inside of it. How I didn't

539
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 5: have any hobbies. I didn't have any desires or preferences.

540
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: So it's like in their mind like that person's a

541
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 5: jerk for not wanting to do the few little things

542
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 5: that you like and want.

543
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 4: But I was like, I wasn't.

544
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 5: Telling all those people, like I'm not telling my person

545
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 5: about anything that I want or need at all.

546
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 4: You know.

547
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're asking for your needs at all, but

548
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: you're expecting them to meet them, not it.

549
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, And then being resentful when they don't and they

550
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 5: don't even know about it.

551
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, that felt it kind of a tangent, but

552
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 4: it was I'm sorry, it's all right. We got a

553
00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 4: little off topic there.

554
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: Well, I want to talk a little bit about because

555
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: anxious attachers I do find well, like the way one

556
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: of the ways I used to self soothe was like,

557
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to get the most information that.

558
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 4: I possibly can about this.

559
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: And you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that

560
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: it's really important not to just go to someone and

561
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: be like, well, you're avoidant.

562
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 5: Clearly, it's incredibly important you will. You will push that

563
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 5: person faster, You will push them away faster than if

564
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 5: you send them thirty texts in a row if you're

565
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 5: okay sitting them down and telling hey, and I did

566
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 5: this to Chris, my poor partner.

567
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 4: I did.

568
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 5: I did, at my worst time, sit him down and go,

569
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 5: I know exactly what's wrong with you and exactly what

570
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 5: you need to do to fix it, and if you

571
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 5: want to be with me, you should fix that thing.

572
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: You can bet.

573
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 5: I did not get to hang out with him a

574
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 5: lot after that. He was like, do I even like

575
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 5: this person who's telling me all the things that are

576
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 5: wrong with me.

577
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's that's why it because it just feels

578
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: like you're telling someone. Oh yeah, it's so interesting because

579
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: in my head, if I was ever doing that, the

580
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: only motivation for me is to save the relationship.

581
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, for sure it was. I don't get

582
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 4: me wrong.

583
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't feel like I was criticizing him. I

584
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 5: was like, I'm here to save you, you know. But

585
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 5: to him, he was like, holy cow, thanks for telling

586
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 5: me all the ways I'm defective.

587
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: And yeah, and honestly I try to tell people too.

588
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 5: How would you like it if you in a state

589
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 5: where you're not feeling very self aware, had somebody sit

590
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 5: you down and say, I've pinpointed exactly what's wrong with

591
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 5: you and why you're unlovable, and here are all the

592
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 5: things that you need to do to make someone love you.

593
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, that would feel very good. No, it doesn't

594
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: feel good at all.

595
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: We have words every month on the podcast that's kind

596
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: of the themes, and our word this month is metamorphosis.

597
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: So you know that obviously, just to me, looks like

598
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: evolution change what you can grow into. And I like

599
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: that topic with this topic kind of like what you

600
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: said at the beginning of just like finding the hope

601
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: in this and that it can happen. So let's move

602
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: into that a little bit about just kind of how

603
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: we can, if we do identify with either anxious or avoidant,

604
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: how we can move into more secure attachment and maybe

605
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: some tips or just even like what the journey looks like,

606
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: because I know it's not good every day, right, I

607
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: know you guys.

608
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 4: Have it's certainly not a workable situation.

609
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: But maybe talk through some of the tools that really

610
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: help you in your relationship.

611
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. So finding the self and diving into yourself

612
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 5: is it's scary work for anxious attachers because we worry

613
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 5: that anytime that we turn the focus back to ourselves,

614
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 5: we're creating disconnect between ourselves and our partner. And that's

615
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 5: it's it's strangely the opposite. I hate to say that too,

616
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 5: because they're like, I know I'm losing people right now.

617
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 5: The time that I spend in my room working on

618
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 5: my journaling is time that I'm not texting my partner.

619
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 5: It's time that I'm not nagging him for more togetherness.

620
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 5: And so not only am I building up my own

621
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 5: identity that was lacking. It gives him time to miss me,

622
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 5: and that's the kind of thing that makes him initiate.

623
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 5: That's when I get the phone call like, hey, you

624
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 5: want to go hiking. Hey, I've been thinking about you.

625
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 5: So the time that we spend nurturing ourselves and building

626
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: our own identity is time that actually brings an avoidant

627
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 5: type partner.

628
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: It makes them.

629
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 5: Feel safer to approach us. And I know not everybody

630
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 5: here is probably paired with an avoidant type, but it

631
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 5: works the same for our secure partners too. Anxious hearts

632
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 5: can tend to overwhelm secure partners as well. So anything

633
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 5: that we do like Okay, I'm going to join a

634
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 5: new gym and make a to do that every Tuesday,

635
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 5: that time on Tuesday where we're doing our own thing

636
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 5: is it's safety building with our partner. They can see

637
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 5: that we're our own person, and that builds a little

638
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 5: bit of intrigue and curiosity and makes them want to

639
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: approach us and come close and feel safe to do that.

640
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 5: We're not the drowning person anymore who's looking at people

641
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 5: as lifeboats. We're sitting swimming on our own and it

642
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 5: makes other people feel good and safe to come close.

643
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: So this is where I hear that fine line thing

644
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: again though, and I just it just dawned on me

645
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: of like, okay, well, this is where you would set

646
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: boundaries because doing that, focusing on yourself and actually having

647
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: the intention to connect with yourself. Because I also can

648
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: be guilty, or it was guilty in the past, of

649
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: being like I'm going to go do this and see

650
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: if it makes them you know.

651
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, okay, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah,

652
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 5: it cannot be a tactic to bring somebody close. I'm

653
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 5: just trying to I'm just trying to give everybody home

654
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 5: that Like you're worried about the disconnect, but that's actually

655
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 5: the kind of thing.

656
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes people feel safer to come close.

657
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: If your intention is to do it to bring to

658
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 5: make them come closer, they will feel that.

659
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: They will smell it like a dog, right, and it

660
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 4: will work.

661
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 5: No, So make sure that the thing that you're doing

662
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 5: is not purposely try Look how independent I am.

663
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 4: I don't know you like that. It's got to be

664
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: a genuine desire to connect with yourself.

665
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: And for me, yes, for me, it's a surrender too.

666
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: It's like, stop trying to think that the only way

667
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: you can find peace in this world is if this

668
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: partner comes to you right this minute and the way

669
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: you want him to and at the exact time, Like

670
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: I think, then you do miss out on the good

671
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: stuff and relationships a lot of times totally. But then,

672
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: so what if, for instance, like I have a friend

673
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: in a situation where she is a big texter and

674
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: wants to text more and so her needs are not

675
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: necessarily getting met with her avoidant partner, and it similar

676
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: to what you said earlier. You're mad, you're resentful, you're whatever.

677
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: So how what is a good way to ask for

678
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: what you need? Like I've suggested, it would really mean

679
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: a lot to me to connect in the morning and

680
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: before we go to bed or something like be specific.

681
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: But do you have any input on that kind of thing?

682
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally do.

683
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 5: Directness and vulnerability are the two tools that you want

684
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 5: when you're trying to make what feels like a difficult

685
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 5: ask to your partner. Directness meaning we don't want any hinting,

686
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 5: We don't want you asking for less than what you

687
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 5: actually want. Figure out exactly like your friend would figure

688
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 5: out exactly what kind of frequency of texting would feel

689
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 5: good to her.

690
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 4: And she needs to be super direct about that.

691
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, instead of just this is exactly what I need,

692
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 5: because that might not be received well either.

693
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 4: Vulnerability can cushion that blow a little bit too.

694
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 5: Okay, it feels it feels like kind of kind of

695
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 5: unsafe and creddy for me when my phone is just

696
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 5: sitting there there's no message. I know that you're able

697
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 5: to text me like sometimes that makes me feel afraid,

698
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 5: and it also makes me wonder, like, man, is this

699
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 5: the kind of relationship that's gonna feel good for me

700
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 5: long term? I know that you want that for me

701
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 5: because you clearly care about me. So what do you

702
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 5: think about a texting frequency you know of this? What

703
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 5: do you think how would that work for you? Get

704
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 5: curious about their situation too. Maybe there's a reason that

705
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 5: they don't that they don't text that much. That's different

706
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 5: from just they hate you and don't want you to

707
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 5: get your needs messed, you know. So let's add curiosity

708
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 5: into that directness. Vulnerability and curiosity are your tools for

709
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 5: those difficult asks.

710
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: How important is it for you and your partner to

711
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: have to equally have awareness about your own attachment styles?

712
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: Because yeah, like.

713
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 5: Yours are set what do you wait, it's zero percent

714
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 5: important for us to have anywhere close to the same.

715
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 4: I just had to interject with that, what do you

716
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 4: tell me?

717
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot of people think this stuff's

718
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 5: not going to work unless both of us know exactly

719
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 5: what's up and we're both putting the exact same effort.

720
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 4: I want to say.

721
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 5: I mean, especially with the work that I do, I'm

722
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 5: focusing on this stuff like ninety percent of the time,

723
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 5: like way more than normal people are focusing on this stuff.

724
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 5: My partner gets exposed to it a lot because of

725
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 5: what I do, but I would say he's at like

726
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 5: a ten or of fifteen percent work level with this stuff.

727
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 5: It's very low. So I think if you like attachment theory,

728
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 5: if you like the idea of self work, that is awesome,

729
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 5: strap on your your diving cap and dive in as

730
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 5: deep as you want. You don't need to expect your

731
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 5: partner to do the same thing. Because your work in

732
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 5: that atmosphere, your work and that area, is going to

733
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 5: change the atmosphere of the relationship, and if it doesn't,

734
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 5: you might be with the wrong person. Because my partner

735
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 5: doesn't know very much at all about attachment theory. But

736
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 5: he does care about the things that I need and want,

737
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 5: So when I express those, he's pretty darn good about listening.

738
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

739
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: So when you're expressing your needs, your boundaries, and you're

740
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 2: staying curious and all the things you've already told us,

741
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: you're finding that you're getting a positive response.

742
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 5: Yes, And that doesn't mean that he does those things. Okay,

743
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 5: So that okay, that's good. Like, let's see some realistic

744
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 5: expectations for people. My partner does not text. It's not

745
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 5: a thing for him. He's over forty. He hates technology. Right,

746
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 5: it's not going to happen. And he told me that

747
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 5: very early in the relationship, just like I hate texting.

748
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 5: That's something you got to know about me right up front.

749
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 5: So sometimes, so if I were to come to him

750
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 5: four years in and I could, I could come to

751
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 5: him and say, look, Chris, I really want more texting

752
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 5: between us. That would feel so good for me. Sometimes

753
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 5: I feel the same scripts Sometimes I feel alone when

754
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 5: there's no.

755
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 4: Text coming in.

756
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 5: Right, it doesn't mean that he abandons who he is,

757
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 5: which is someone who hates technology and is very confident

758
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 5: that they want nothing to.

759
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 4: Do with it.

760
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: The compromise there is that he takes my hand and

761
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 5: he says, I know that that's something that you care about,

762
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 5: but babe, that's not who I am. Like, is there

763
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 5: something else that I can do for you that would

764
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 5: make you feel great? Because he's like, and we've had

765
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 5: this exact conversation. He's like, I love phone calls. He's like,

766
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 5: I'm a phone call guy.

767
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

768
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 5: He's like, I'm not gonna be texting you heart emojis.

769
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 4: He's like, that's not what I do.

770
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 5: But if I'm thinking about you during the day, would

771
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 5: it work if I gave you a phone call and

772
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 5: just said, hey, babe, I'm thinking about you right now.

773
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 5: And I was like, you know what, let's try that

774
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: because I'm very texting.

775
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 4: I love texting. Yeah, And I said, let's try that.

776
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 4: Let's see if that works.

777
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 5: And now it's been four years and I've gotten like,

778
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 5: you know, I can count how many texts I've gotten

779
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 5: from him. But man, that man calls me constantly, and

780
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 5: that's our that's our compromise. So sometimes you don't get

781
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 5: exactly what you want, but if you have a good partner,

782
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 5: they do care about you. Feeling like the needs being met,

783
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 5: you know.

784
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was gonna say I heard so

785
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: much of that, because really, I don't know that's so

786
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: much of like it's probably not about actually about the texting,

787
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: it's about.

788
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 4: What it's totally not totally exactly that's not happening.

789
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: And so when his response that you just gave to me, immediately,

790
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: my nervous system would be like, okay, he hears me.

791
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 4: I'm totally I feel safe, and yeah.

792
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: I can be flexible about the ways that I'm getting things.

793
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 2: It's just like the bigger picture of am I scene

794
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: in my herd Am I safe?

795
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 4: Totally?

796
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 5: So your friend who feels like she's not getting enough texting,

797
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 5: there's a need beneath that, Like nobody's gonna die if

798
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 5: they don't get texts. You know, she's got to figure

799
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 5: out what the need beneath that is, and perhaps there's

800
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 5: a different way that they can work together as a

801
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 5: team to get that need met.

802
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: Even it's maybe even acknowledging what he is doing too, yeah,

803
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: you know.

804
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 5: Like, oh, totally you know that I wasn't a call. Yeah,

805
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 5: like I wasn't thinking about all his phone calls. I

806
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 5: was just asking for more texting. Even though this is

807
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 5: this is a dude who calls every single morning, every

808
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 5: single night, and usually in the afternoon too, And.

809
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 4: I was like, where my heart emoji tasts?

810
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: You know, And you're so focused on that thing. Like

811
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: when we get triggered, we get so focused on the

812
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: thing we're not getting that you can't see all the

813
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: good that you are, right.

814
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 5: Because the thing we're not getting. Yeah, sorry, I totally

815
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 5: I'm off fire out now. It's because the thing that

816
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 5: we're not getting is proof to us that they don't

817
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 5: care about us. You know, that's our own narrative, right,

818
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 5: it's exactly.

819
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just finding that I feel like sometimes my

820
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: way of making myself safe as being hyper vigilant, and

821
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: so it's like, I'll have a narrative he doesn't actually

822
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: care about me, and in the less the little text

823
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: that I get or whatever, I'm like, see, I knew it,

824
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: knew it. I knew it, I knew it, And so

825
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 2: then you miss all the other ways that you are

826
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: getting totally probably met.

827
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: Do you want to hear one weird thing that I

828
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 5: did ye in my year where I was like, screw it,

829
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 5: I'm just going to work on this myself. Yeah, I

830
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 5: pulled up the notes app on my phone. And every

831
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 5: single day, if I noticed him doing anything that I

832
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 5: could even remotely interpret as kind or loving, I wrote

833
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 5: it down. I didn't write down the bad things. I

834
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 5: just wrote down the good things.

835
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 4: And in the moments where I was like, dang it,

836
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 4: I don't even like this guy.

837
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 5: He doesn't text me like I would tell myself stuff

838
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 5: like that, I would pull open that notes app and

839
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 5: it would be like, Chris made me tea this morning

840
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 5: without me asking. Chris called me four times this morning

841
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 5: because he found something cool and wanted to tell me

842
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 5: about it. And then it really helped bring it into perspective.

843
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm looking for way reasons that he

844
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 5: doesn't care about me when he shows me constantly that

845
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 5: he does.

846
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. So writing down it's very helpful. Yeah,

847
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: that's a really good tip.

848
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: Well.

849
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: Also, we have the book. It's called Anxious Hearts Guides.

850
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: Anxious Hearts Guides.

851
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guide.

852
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah one as Okay, there's a lot of I didn't

853
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: realize this, but you.

854
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 4: Know, I didn't realize it was a tongue twister. Yeah,

855
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 4: anxil Starts Guide. It is me, that's you.

856
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: And then there's a work book that's twenty one Day

857
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: Anxious Attachment Challenge is a workbook.

858
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's kind of a workbook. It's twenty one

859
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 5: chapters and every single chapter is only like two or

860
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 5: three pages.

861
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 4: The chapters.

862
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 5: You take it day by day, so every day you

863
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 5: read like two pages. Each one addresses some aspect of

864
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 5: anxious attachment. Okay, And I just love those twenty one

865
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 5: day challenges because they're like little bite size wasys to

866
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 5: work on a different, a different thing every day. One

867
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 5: of my favorites that I did was it was a

868
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 5: twenty one day like self Love Challenge. I think that's

869
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 5: what it was called. And man, it was just nice

870
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 5: to not have to focus on doing the same thing

871
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 5: every day for twenty days, but something different every day

872
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 5: that made me feel like I'm okay, I'm working on

873
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 5: this thing.

874
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

875
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 4: I mean, it's fun to write a bet.

876
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: And I was gonna also say, if you're one of

877
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: the people listening that might you know fit in that

878
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: box that we were talking about where you don't know.

879
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 4: What you like.

880
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: I remember when I first started doing my work on codependency,

881
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: people would be like, well, what do you like to do?

882
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,959
Speaker 2: And I was like, literally, I don't know. Yeah, I'm

883
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 2: so out of touch with myself that I didn't even

884
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: know the things that I enjoyed doing. So these kind

885
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: of things might be a good way to start navigating that.

886
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: Even giving yourself this one little challenge each day is

887
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: spending time with yourself.

888
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it totally? Is it? Totally?

889
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 5: That's my That's why I'm so into journaling too, because

890
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 5: it's my my half hour or so that I spend

891
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 5: with myself during the Yeah, listening to my own thoughts.

892
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna put the link to both of those

893
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: books in the description of this podcast.

894
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 4: But what can.

895
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: People find in the Anxious Heart Guide? Anxious Hearts Guide? See,

896
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: I did it, and.

897
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 4: Maybe I need to rename it.

898
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 3: I'm just saying all the says. I think it's a lot.

899
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a mouthful.

900
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 5: In my book, I spend the first maybe third talking

901
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 5: about attachment, specifically anxious attachment to just so that we

902
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 5: can get a little more a little more information, we

903
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 5: can have more awareness on Okay, I'm doing this thing

904
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 5: and that's like a very anxious thing.

905
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

906
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 5: The middle part of the book really dives into self

907
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 5: work work, self worth work, and building up our relationships

908
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 5: with other people around us, lots of things that have

909
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 5: nothing to do with the romantic relationship, because we're looking

910
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 5: to build that self trust with ourselves, the main thing

911
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 5: that anxious attaches are lacking. The last part of the

912
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 5: book actually talks about engaging in romantic relationships in healthier ways,

913
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 5: So that's the closeness. Once you develop that sense of self,

914
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 5: then you can move toward developing healthy closeness, which is

915
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 5: also I just want to say all this talk is

916
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 5: not to say I want you to become somebody who

917
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 5: doesn't need anybody else to swim, right Like, I want

918
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 5: you to swim and like hold in hands with your

919
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 5: person in the water, but you're still cool keeping yourself

920
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 5: afloat with the rest of your limbs.

921
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 4: Right yeah.

922
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 5: Closeness is wonderful, It's a beautiful It's my favorite part

923
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 5: of being alive. But the universe can take away a

924
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 5: person who's very committed to us and loving as well.

925
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 5: So we can't be somebody who can't swim alone because

926
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 5: sometimes the universe takes our person away even if they

927
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 5: want to be with us.

928
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: Right yeah, I love that. Where else can people find you?

929
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 2: I'd mentioned your Instagram? Will you tell the people were that.

930
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been dabbling on TikTok, but I kind of

931
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 5: feel like I'm too old for it, and I.

932
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 4: Know I get that. I get that.

933
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: Honestly, Instagram is really where I live. Don't find me

934
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 5: on TikTok.

935
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 4: Come on, come on Instagram really for it.

936
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 5: Oh, I did just start a podcast with my buddy Jimmy. Yeah,

937
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 5: he's kind of blowing up Jimmy. Jimmy offers people advice

938
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 5: in marriage. But honestly, like it's just he's so funny.

939
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 5: That's why he does so well on TikTok. I'm not funny.

940
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, TikTok is a whole different beast.

941
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 4: It really is. It really is.

942
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 5: But my podcast is pretty cool if you google Ricky

943
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 5: and Jimmy on Relationships. We're only like eight episodes in,

944
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 5: so it's new, but we're having a lot of fun

945
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 5: with it and I think I'm going to be doing

946
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 5: a lot more of.

947
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: That in the future. Amazing. Well, I'll put that in

948
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 4: the description as well.

949
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: It's Ricky R I K K I for you guys,

950
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: Ricky and Jimmy on Relationships.

951
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, thank you so much.

952
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: I know we had thanks for having the listeners. We

953
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: had a couple time difference. Oh my god, our scheduling

954
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 2: because Ricky's in Alaska, which is so cool. Yeah, I've

955
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: never had anyone on the podcast from Alaska.

956
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 4: Oh cool.

957
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 5: There aren't very many of us up here. Yeah statistics. Yeah,

958
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 5: but I'm really glad that we could make it happen.

959
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 5: This was really fun.

960
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 2: Need too you guys go check out ricky Anxious Heart's Guide. Yeah,

961
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: and I will put all those links in the description

962
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: of this podcast. Ricky, thank you so much again.

963
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 4: Thanks, this was lovely.

964
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

965
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet and a

966
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

967
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.