Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York
Speaker 1: and ever Though in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up one trillion dollars for
Speaker 2: a USAI hub, the latest big bet being pitched by SoftBank,
Speaker 2: band of Masayosti's son. We dig into the reality of
Speaker 2: the numbers. Plus Meta launches three hundred and ninety nine
Speaker 2: dollars oakly AI glasses aimed at athletes and thrill seekers.
Speaker 2: We discussed the surprise hit smart glasses and China's baid Eyes,
Speaker 2: a Robotaxi expansion in Asia. We discuss the next steps
Speaker 2: for a the adoption. But we're also eyeing what's happening
Speaker 2: in terms of Middle East tensions. I want to move
Speaker 2: into those Middle Eastern tensions as well, because look, more broadly,
Speaker 2: we are seeing Israeli officials warning that Iran is tapping
Speaker 2: into private, securely focused cameras to gather some information, particular
Speaker 2: intelligence against adversaries.
Speaker 3: Now it's going to be a.
Speaker 2: Key focus that we've seen repeated with hamas with Russia
Speaker 2: in other conflicts. Bloomberg's Mike Shephard joins US now on
Speaker 2: what is some deep investigation, mic.
Speaker 4: Cara.
Speaker 5: This is something that highlights a longstanding vulnerability with surveillance cameras,
Speaker 5: which have become ubiquitous around the world. When we look
Speaker 5: in our homes, even you see those doorbell cameras, and
Speaker 5: you go to any office or department store, there are
Speaker 5: cameras everywhere, even on the streets. Yet the data that
Speaker 5: is being gathered, the images, the footage is not necessarily
Speaker 5: as secure. We've seen instances several years ago of hacks
Speaker 5: of startups that had just reams of data from tens
Speaker 5: of thousands of surveillance cameras. But there is also a
Speaker 5: geopolitical concern as well, and we see the highlighted with
Speaker 5: Israel warning citizens to either turn the cameras off or
Speaker 5: at the very least update the passwords.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So a key call to their own citizens at the
Speaker 2: moment and one that will follow throughout. But from real
Speaker 2: war tensions to the global trade war once more, Mike,
Speaker 2: there's some really interesting news breaking very recently across the
Speaker 2: BlueBag terminal coming from the Wall Street Journal talking about
Speaker 2: how the US is preparing action targeting Allies chip plants
Speaker 2: in China. In particular, there's talk of ending waivers for
Speaker 2: the likes of TSMCSK, Heinek, Samsung that actually make chips
Speaker 2: in China. Right, it seems to be trying to make
Speaker 2: it harder for global chip makers basically to operate in China.
Speaker 5: Well to a degree, yes, and the idea from the
Speaker 5: Trump administration is to what they see it as according
Speaker 5: to the journals reporting, level the playing field when it
Speaker 5: comes to requirements for rare earths to be shipped to
Speaker 5: the US. In other words, the same degree of licensing
Speaker 5: required for that would soon be perhaps required for bringing
Speaker 5: American technology, American chip making equipment into China or at
Speaker 5: least updated or repaired in the Chinese market. Remember that TSMCSK, Heinix,
Speaker 5: and Samsung produce a lot of chips for the American
Speaker 5: market in China, but what they use is US equipment
Speaker 5: and equipment from overseas. Use equipment would now need a license.
Speaker 5: Rather than just getting a blanket waiver where you can
Speaker 5: bring it in without having to check every time with
Speaker 5: the US government, you would need that level of permission. Now,
Speaker 5: this is not pertaining to the most advanced, the highest
Speaker 5: end AI chips, for instance, this is a lot of
Speaker 5: the legacy level semiconductors, the older generation chips that go
Speaker 5: into automobiles, consumer electronics, and other lower end things. So
Speaker 5: it's not exactly targeting the upper end that we've seen
Speaker 5: the US government do, for instance by barring AMD in
Speaker 5: video of course, from selling their most advanced AI chips. Instead,
Speaker 5: this is taking aim in a different end of production
Speaker 5: in China of certain kinds of chips.
Speaker 2: Mike Sheffin breaking it all down for us around the world,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Now, look, there is another top
Speaker 2: story that we're watching. SoftBank founder Massio Shei's son is
Speaker 2: planning a trillion dollar industrial complex in Arizona. It's to
Speaker 2: build robots. Further, it's AI endeavors. Look TSMC potentially playing
Speaker 2: a key role here. Lumberg's Peter Elstrom joins us to
Speaker 2: break it down.
Speaker 3: One trillion is a lot, One trillion is a lot, Caroline.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So Masio Sheisana has another big bowld vision. What
Speaker 6: he's pitching companies like TSMC and Samsung on now is
Speaker 6: building out these industrial parks and places like Arizona in
Speaker 6: the United States. The ideal is to kind of appeal
Speaker 6: to the Trump administration and try to bring some advanced
Speaker 6: manufacturing back to the United States. Now. There are a
Speaker 6: few related projects going on right now, and it's not
Speaker 6: as crazy as it may sound at first. Blush TSMC,
Speaker 6: for example, is trying to bring in a lot of
Speaker 6: its suppliers into Arizona into the United States so that
Speaker 6: it can produce more of the advanced chips within the country.
Speaker 6: Samsung is doing a very similar thing in Texas. And
Speaker 6: remember soft Bank spent years investing in startups and they
Speaker 6: have hundreds of startups that would be able to put
Speaker 6: facilities there. And the focus here is going to be
Speaker 6: on AI and robotics. Those are two big areas for
Speaker 6: their investments. So you could also see some soft Bank
Speaker 6: backed companies move into these kinds of ventures.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it doesn't sound as crazy as it seems
Speaker 2: as how you articulate it, Peter, But we know that
Speaker 2: actually promising money and deploying it at two very different things.
Speaker 2: And actually Stargate, for example, already what massiochisn has been
Speaker 2: wooing President Trump with and in line with Oracle and
Speaker 2: Open Ai to build infrastructure in the US that's been
Speaker 2: hard to deploy right.
Speaker 6: Right, that's only five hundred billion in Carolina.
Speaker 3: That's much more reasonable.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they talked about the Stargate venture with open AI
Speaker 6: in particular, where they're going to build out data centers
Speaker 6: in the United States. That began as one hundred billion
Speaker 6: dollar venture and then they said, hey, this could get
Speaker 6: as big as five hundred billion dollars. But as we've reported,
Speaker 6: they ran into some problems there in terms of the financing.
Speaker 6: Some of the terriff issues that the Trump administration was
Speaker 6: talking about ran into their ability to be able to
Speaker 6: get banks on board, to be able to get the
Speaker 6: money to be able to get some of these projects underway.
Speaker 6: So that's going a little bit slow at this point.
Speaker 6: And you're exactly right when it comes to this adventure
Speaker 6: that we're talking about now, the industrial parks that also
Speaker 6: would need financing. It's not clear how quickly they'd be
Speaker 6: able to pull that together.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 6: Selt Bank has had preliminary conversations with state officials, Howard
Speaker 6: Lutnick's office at the Commerce Department in particular, so they
Speaker 6: have begun some of these conversations. It's not clear exactly
Speaker 6: how far along they are. It will depend on whether
Speaker 6: they get some of the tax incentives that they want.
Speaker 6: Some of the other corporate support to determine whether they're
Speaker 6: going to be able to proceed.
Speaker 2: Peter astrom Me, thank you for bringing us the story.
Speaker 2: Let's dig in now with Jordan Klin. Mazuoko America's managing director,
Speaker 2: actually wrote about this soft bank promise in his morning note.
Speaker 3: You're joining us.
Speaker 2: Now so much to cover you think this is perhaps
Speaker 2: more of a marketing employee.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's where the you know, the skeptic in
Speaker 7: me thinks it's it's a little bit more of that.
Speaker 7: I mean, you never want to underestimate soft bank. And
Speaker 7: when it comes to AI and robotics, I think there's
Speaker 7: a lot of interest, particularly from the capital markets, but
Speaker 7: you know, the size and the scale seem a little
Speaker 7: bit trumped up, so to speak, I think, and the
Speaker 7: timing I would question as well. Like and that's why
Speaker 7: I don't think you're seeing the stocks move at all,
Speaker 7: because investors are just kind of, you know, somewhat immune
Speaker 7: to these sort of numbers that keep you know, going
Speaker 7: up and up, but they're not necessarily you know, believing
Speaker 7: that that's going to impact the stocks anytime soon.
Speaker 2: I love that you say we're becoming immune to these
Speaker 2: sorts of numbers. That sort of number was actually articulated
Speaker 2: by Samumon a little bit ago with our own memory.
Speaker 3: Chang, just take and listen to Sam's point here.
Speaker 8: The interesting question is if we had if we knew
Speaker 8: how to get a trillion dollars right now, if we don't,
Speaker 8: would we be able to deploy that profitably in the
Speaker 8: next few years? And I'm not sure about that, but
Speaker 8: I feel confident we can like make five hundred million
Speaker 8: value back.
Speaker 2: Samonman is saying he's confident he can get half of
Speaker 2: your money back if you give him a trillion. So, ultimately,
Speaker 2: are these the right bets to be betting on as
Speaker 2: an investor in the likely winners? Would you still allocate
Speaker 2: to TSMC if indeed a trillion is talked about in
Speaker 2: Arizona for example?
Speaker 7: Well, I love TSM personally, and I really like a
Speaker 7: lot of these AI compute names that are going to
Speaker 7: facilitate a lot of this expansion into gen Ai. But honestly,
Speaker 7: I don't think you need the trillion dollar headlines to
Speaker 7: make these stocks look attractive or compelling. Everything in the
Speaker 7: near term sounds like the demand for AI tokens and
Speaker 7: inferencing is rising and Video is doing a great job
Speaker 7: of improving the production and output of their new Blackwell
Speaker 7: server racks and the cloud Hyperscalers who buy all this
Speaker 7: equipment all seem keen to increase investment as opposed to
Speaker 7: limited or low it down. So yeah, it's great when
Speaker 7: soft Bank and others talk big picture plans down the road,
Speaker 7: but I think there's just so much demand and interest
Speaker 7: near term that investors should be focused, you know, more
Speaker 7: on that and less on you know, big scale projects
Speaker 7: that may or may not come about because as your
Speaker 7: you know, prior analysts mentioned before this piece, you know,
Speaker 7: there's a lot of regulation in government involvement that would
Speaker 7: need to come to pass even before you can even entertain.
Speaker 3: Some of this talking of government involvement.
Speaker 2: That's perhaps what's in the eye of the storm for
Speaker 2: investors right now.
Speaker 3: I'm seeing nvidios of.
Speaker 2: Near session lows at the moment and others that perhaps
Speaker 2: make things in China, particularly chips, because there's Wall Street
Speaker 2: Journal reporting saying that the US might make it even
Speaker 2: harder to use US equipment in China, the likes of
Speaker 2: tsmcsk Henich, Samsung, for example. How much of a headwind
Speaker 2: is this for the overall semiconductor space.
Speaker 7: Well, it's a great question, and I think what you're
Speaker 7: seeing here is these reports get leaked or information from
Speaker 7: the administration gets leaked to the press. They put out
Speaker 7: stories that talk about potential restrictions that the US could
Speaker 7: put on our intellectual property, our leading edge equipment and
Speaker 7: technology that would go either to our allies or anyone
Speaker 7: related to China. And in my opinion, this is similar
Speaker 7: to the reports you heard on EDA software being blocked
Speaker 7: or restricted from China when we were trying to get
Speaker 7: those rare earth and magnet imports turned back on. So
Speaker 7: what I think is happening is you have two big
Speaker 7: Korean memory companies that make memory inside China, and the
Speaker 7: US wants to get leverage in the current ongoing trade
Speaker 7: negotiations with South Korea or maybe other Asian nations who
Speaker 7: would be exposed to these rules, and so they throw
Speaker 7: this out as well, we might restrict the ability to
Speaker 7: get those leading edge tools, which would basically make those
Speaker 7: fabs inefficient. It wouldn't shut them down, but if you
Speaker 7: can't get the best latest equipment, it basically puts you
Speaker 7: at a competitive disadvantage versus companies like Micron, So I
Speaker 7: think it's more posturing and leverage, but it would be
Speaker 7: a real It definitely doesn't help the sentiment across SEMIS.
Speaker 7: And that's to answer your question, because anytime you bring
Speaker 7: up government restrictions in China, it just puts some downward
Speaker 7: pressure on SEMIS. But again, I don't necessarily think this
Speaker 7: is what is going to happen anytime soon.
Speaker 3: It's just a risk, just a risk, but people act
Speaker 3: on those risks.
Speaker 2: And as we see the socks Semi conduct To index
Speaker 2: now trading off by one point seven percent, and it's
Speaker 2: kla it's land research in particular in the headwinds. Can
Speaker 2: you give us a sense of who in despite these
Speaker 2: sorts of environment you just have to allocate to because well,
Speaker 2: the positives just so outweigh. Does it still remain in
Speaker 2: video all cases TSMC at all cases? Are they're more
Speaker 2: nuanced plays to be had, because it feels as though
Speaker 2: we've been ringing that one for a while.
Speaker 7: Well, you mentioned the names that would be most at
Speaker 7: risk would be the equipment company's kla ASML, potentially AMAT
Speaker 7: and LAMB, and those stocks have been going up in
Speaker 7: the face of a lot of concern that the US
Speaker 7: could put further restrictions on those equipment and that those
Speaker 7: tools going into China. So a lot of the people
Speaker 7: I speak to are already cautious on the equipment stocks.
Speaker 7: But what I actually think it definitely really won't impact
Speaker 7: Nvidia in my opinion TSM. Honestly, again, demand exceed supply.
Speaker 7: They're going to do fine. And the other name that
Speaker 7: I would look at, as you mentioned, like who could
Speaker 7: benefit is Micron. So Micron is the other large dram
Speaker 7: nand flash memory supplier, and they don't have big factories
Speaker 7: inside China. They're the only US memory company, so they're
Speaker 7: like our leading champ and we want them to survive
Speaker 7: and do well. And obviously they're going to try to
Speaker 7: move more of their manufacturing into the United States, but
Speaker 7: they would be at an advantage if the US was
Speaker 7: to restrict Samsung and Heinez from getting those needed tools
Speaker 7: in those Chinese facilities. And that's the one that's reporting
Speaker 7: next week. That's the one I think that's going to
Speaker 7: sound super bullish on demand for memory in AI, and
Speaker 7: that's the one I think that could really be the
Speaker 7: surprise upside winner.
Speaker 2: Upside already up twenty eight percent so far. This month
Speaker 2: they came out with real vision for allocating to R
Speaker 2: and D here in America. But last week we'll wait
Speaker 2: for their earnings a little bit later. As you say,
Speaker 2: thank you so much Jordan Klin. Always great to have
Speaker 2: him on from Mazuha coming up as Tesla prepares to
Speaker 2: laun James robotaxi service. Well, the global competition in autonomous
Speaker 2: cab space is heating.
Speaker 3: Up A's next as Bluebertech.
Speaker 2: Chinese technology giant Baidu well it is planning to expand
Speaker 2: its robo taxi service in Singapore and Malaysia as as
Speaker 2: early as this year, according to people familiar with the matter.
Speaker 2: Now the company is in discussions with potential partners in
Speaker 2: the two markets. By news Apollogo, it's about one thousand
Speaker 2: self driving vehicles worldwide, mostly in China.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 2: This newsicalse comes as Elon Musks Tesla prepares to launch
Speaker 2: its robotaxi services in Austin this weekend. Let's get more
Speaker 2: on the autonomous market. Karako comments here with us. She's
Speaker 2: a professor of Civil and Transport engineering over at the
Speaker 2: University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 3: Her work includes research on the.
Speaker 2: Impact of bringing self driving cars to the roads and
Speaker 2: kara for anyone who is worried about the safety involved here,
Speaker 2: your data shows, look, we should be pursuing this path.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 10: So, in an early paper, just looking at the kinds
Speaker 10: of technologies that auto manufacturers already have, we expected about
Speaker 10: an eighty five percent crash reduction and fatality reduction and
Speaker 10: crash cost reduction, which is a lot of money because
Speaker 10: Americans already lose about three thousand dollars a year per
Speaker 10: capita every year to crash costs. And what we've already
Speaker 10: seen is Weimo is hitting that target on the streets
Speaker 10: of San Francisco.
Speaker 11: Phoenix, and an La, where.
Speaker 10: It's been comparing itself to the other drivers that are
Speaker 10: on those exact same streets.
Speaker 2: Of course, cost to vehicle owners, cost of life as well,
Speaker 2: car is something that just everyone is so focused on,
Speaker 2: but there has to be regulation that keeps up. China
Speaker 2: is going at this full speed, so is Asian. We're
Speaker 2: just talking about how bydo is rolling out across Singapore Malaysia.
Speaker 2: Are we keeping pace with how quickly the innovation could
Speaker 2: change here in the US?
Speaker 10: Well, I think so thanks to Tesla, but of course
Speaker 10: they also have a gigafactory in China, and so China
Speaker 10: may have access to all of that intellectual property and
Speaker 10: be able to mimic it quickly to catch up with
Speaker 10: Tesla with a Chinese based company.
Speaker 2: Okay, so thanks to Tesla, thanks to Weimo, thanks Zooks,
Speaker 2: who we had on earlier in the week. There is
Speaker 2: plenty of companies that are showing that it can be done.
Speaker 2: Just remind us of also not the cost implications from
Speaker 2: an insurance perspective, but more broadly, how much easier, how
Speaker 2: much more cost efficient will it be to make these vehicles,
Speaker 2: Because look, zuks is saying it's going to make ten
Speaker 2: thousand in the next few years or so per year
Speaker 2: in their new facility. But all of these means they're
Speaker 2: pretty expensive pieces of equipment as it stands.
Speaker 10: Right so people are estimating that the Waimo vehicles right now,
Speaker 10: which are on a very expensive Jaguar Ipace, which is
Speaker 10: a suggested retail price of seventy five thousand, I think,
Speaker 10: so add another seventy five thousand to get all of
Speaker 10: the lighter and everything else installed. But if you can
Speaker 10: install it all directly on the assembly line in one
Speaker 10: coherent piece, that the cost comes down a bit, and
Speaker 10: of course weimo's not in the business of actually manufacturing
Speaker 10: the vehicles and Tesla is and if you go to
Speaker 10: the Tesla website, I think they're offering the technology for
Speaker 10: eight thousand dollars up front, plus another one hundred dollars
Speaker 10: a month, and so that starts to sound pretty reasonable.
Speaker 10: And we do expect those costs to come down long
Speaker 10: term to maybe under five thousand dollars off the top.
Speaker 10: And if you have to have a monthly check fee
Speaker 10: or something, so they're updating, you know, to new standards
Speaker 10: each month, and there might be another fifty dollars fee
Speaker 10: on top of that.
Speaker 2: I suppose talk to us therefore about how FSD seems
Speaker 2: to work at the moment, because we hear on both
Speaker 2: sides the equation. Many love it, Many feel that it
Speaker 2: is incredibly efficient. Others say there are still so many holes,
Speaker 2: so many ways in which that it underperforms. We cannot
Speaker 2: roll it out yet in the United States.
Speaker 11: Well, it's already out there.
Speaker 10: So a lot of us have friends and neighbors and
Speaker 10: people just alongside us in the traffic stream and you
Speaker 10: may not notice because there is somebody in that driver's seat,
Speaker 10: but they are in FSD mode, and so I believe
Speaker 10: they've driven billions, billions of miles already, whereas the Waymouth
Speaker 10: fleet has gone about sixty million miles of rider only.
Speaker 11: So nobody in the driver's seat.
Speaker 10: And that's the big jump here, is that they're they're
Speaker 10: tweaking the algorithms so that the car will be able
Speaker 10: to move without somebody in that driver's seat and will
Speaker 10: do a lot of the parking, which they're not doing
Speaker 10: right now for the owners of FSD who paid that
Speaker 10: eight thousand dollars plus one hundred dollars a month, and
Speaker 10: of course have to be in that driver's seat legally,
Speaker 10: have to be a licensed driver and have to keep
Speaker 10: their eyes open, you know, much of the time. But
Speaker 10: when I was in that driver's seat, I did nothing.
Speaker 10: It was very precise, It was very impressive on very
Speaker 10: complex network here, the routes that we were taking, but
Speaker 10: it was broad daylight. And the one thing I noticed is,
Speaker 10: you know, it does go above the posted speed limit
Speaker 10: to keep up with the traffic around it, which the
Speaker 10: Waymo vehicles don't do.
Speaker 11: And it also came, you know, a lot.
Speaker 10: It was much more confident around pedestrians and scooters and
Speaker 10: cyclists than I would normally be as a driver myself.
Speaker 11: So that's where I'm a little bit nervous. If somebody
Speaker 11: turns around mid stream.
Speaker 10: You know, you've seen the images of scooters falling in
Speaker 10: front of.
Speaker 11: A way MO.
Speaker 10: That would be tough, So there will be some really
Speaker 10: hard breaking or maneuvering if they're going to avoid those
Speaker 10: kinds of crashes.
Speaker 11: So that's that's something I'd be watching out for.
Speaker 2: And when it comes to well keeping in the speed limit,
Speaker 2: there are some settings you can adjustice there. Kara, We
Speaker 2: thank you Kara Kocheman. She's the professor at the University
Speaker 2: of Texas At Austin. Meta is rolling out new aiglasses
Speaker 2: with Oakley that are targeted to athletes. The new versions,
Speaker 2: which start at three hundred and ninety nine dollars, include
Speaker 2: improved video quality features like water resistance. Man Neat Singh
Speaker 2: are in house athlete and Bloomberg intelligence.
Speaker 3: Writer talks to us a little bit.
Speaker 2: Look it's funny the way the story is written by
Speaker 2: Mark German. He says people are using them also for
Speaker 2: thrill seeking. They're getting on roller coasters and using them.
Speaker 2: Why are these Oakley versions going to be better?
Speaker 12: I mean, it just turns out to be a better
Speaker 12: phone factor. When you think about, you know, the ray
Speaker 12: Bang glasses compared to the VR headset, I would say
Speaker 12: it's a much easier phone factor to use, you know,
Speaker 12: as an AI glass. But at the same time, I
Speaker 12: think they also realized that the VR headset weren't really
Speaker 12: as impressive to use from a gross margin perspective, So
Speaker 12: I think the ray Band glasses and the oak Ley
Speaker 12: glasses probably are better from a gross margin standpoint. And look,
Speaker 12: in the case of Meta, we know they'll be losing
Speaker 12: about twenty billion dollars this year on reality labs, and
Speaker 12: there is no line of sight in terms of when
Speaker 12: this is going to get profitable or you know, when
Speaker 12: the economies of scale will kick in. So from that
Speaker 12: standpoint as well, I think it's a better pivot for
Speaker 12: them to focus on their glasses compared to the VR headset,
Speaker 12: where they were doing all the manufacturing themselves from the
Speaker 12: ground up.
Speaker 2: They stick to display lists, or at least they enhance
Speaker 2: the offering on display lists. How many of these do
Speaker 2: you think they're actually going to be able to sell overall?
Speaker 2: Because you run the numbers with your latest big Yes, I.
Speaker 12: Have So look, when it comes to Apple Watch, they
Speaker 12: are about forty million units sold. Air pods are about
Speaker 12: you know, er take seventy to eighty million in a year.
Speaker 12: Raybang glasses were about one million, and we are headsets
Speaker 12: were about seven million last year. So adding Oakley, which
Speaker 12: has the same parent company we're talking about, maybe it
Speaker 12: scales from one to two million this year, but it
Speaker 12: still doesn't match the scale of an Apple simply because
Speaker 12: the ecosystem that Apple has with the content and the
Speaker 12: app store, it's so hard to replicate for a meta,
Speaker 12: and that's been their challenge, even though they have invested
Speaker 12: so much. So to my mind, ecosystem is where a
Speaker 12: meta lacks, and it'll be a hard thing to scale
Speaker 12: up even with the Oakly glasses.
Speaker 3: And I'm saying, I'm Brett meg Intelligence. We thank you.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Blueberg Tech and Karen Hydeen, New York,
Speaker 3: not in London. Let's get a pict check on these
Speaker 3: markets because as.
Speaker 2: We stand, we are currently down about one point three
Speaker 2: percent and we've got anxiety building, whether or not it's
Speaker 2: about Middle East tensions, whether or not it's about yet
Speaker 2: further restrictions on international chip makers making chips with US
Speaker 2: equipment in China. That was a key story coming from
Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal put some pressure on the chip
Speaker 2: stocks in particular or off by one and a quarter percent,
Speaker 2: as we're also just embracing ourselves with some.
Speaker 3: Volatility into the end of.
Speaker 2: The day's close that of course, as we anticipate triple witching.
Speaker 3: But DOLLI what resolutely remains high AMD.
Speaker 2: We're up one and a half percent on the day,
Speaker 2: we were up ten percent on the week AMD. Lisa
Speaker 2: sou that discussion about where they go next with their
Speaker 2: own generative AI chips really ringing through when she presented
Speaker 2: last week. We've continued on the higher side for this
Speaker 2: particular stock meta though off by one point four percent.
Speaker 3: Interesting as they say, look.
Speaker 2: We've got the latest and greatest Oakley AI glasses. Market
Speaker 2: less convinced as it stams. But let's talk about another
Speaker 2: key top corporate story, Microsoft planning to cut thousands of jobs,
Speaker 2: particularly in sales. The company tries to trim its workforce,
Speaker 2: I mean heavy spending on artificial intelligence that's bringing bluebags
Speaker 2: proty Ford. This has been sort of a story that
Speaker 2: we get a drip feed on who is it hitting
Speaker 2: this time?
Speaker 9: A lot of people see this, and they get confused because
Speaker 9: they say, Microsoft world's most valuable company. Most days, they're
Speaker 9: making all this money, why do they keep firing people?
Speaker 9: A big part of it is because, you know, you
Speaker 9: got to start spending eighty billion dollars a year on
Speaker 9: AI data centers, and you don't want your margins to
Speaker 9: move so much. And now we're seeing that there's this
Speaker 9: kind of recurring rolling layoff. They laid off about six
Speaker 9: thousand people a month or two ago. Now it's the
Speaker 9: end of the fiscal year. And now who turns it
Speaker 9: to get fired salespeople? And so it's something has happened
Speaker 9: a bit in the social contract of these large companies
Speaker 9: where these rolling layoffs have become much more common. And
Speaker 9: it's not just Microsoft.
Speaker 2: I'm talking of contracts. There's a contract between open ai
Speaker 2: and Microsoft, and that seems to be getting ever more
Speaker 2: contentious at the moment. Bring us the latest prodi on
Speaker 2: just how open ai is competing against the hand that feeds.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that was a nice transition. I mean, you know,
Speaker 9: Microsoft inked this contract with open ai back in twenty
Speaker 9: nineteen at the point a kind of you know, fledgling
Speaker 9: AI startup, which is now one of the most powerful
Speaker 9: companies in the world with a lot of leverage, and
Speaker 9: they probably want a lot of things that are not
Speaker 9: in that contours or that initial contract. And so you know,
Speaker 9: essentially open ai wants to restructure itself. Who needs to
Speaker 9: sign off on that. It's largest shareholder Microsoft. So there's
Speaker 9: been a kind of drip drip of information around where
Speaker 9: these disagreements are, where Microsoft wants to hold control, where
Speaker 9: open ai wants to you know, it's it's the teenager
Speaker 9: that's angry at their parent and wants to move out
Speaker 9: of their house, but they got to figure out the
Speaker 9: details still.
Speaker 2: I love the analogies, and they're moving out of the
Speaker 2: house of Microsoft to get compute from others and also
Speaker 2: get money from others, largely Massouchy Son, who we know
Speaker 2: has got big visions when it comes to Arizona today, Brody,
Speaker 2: but just talk to us about why the tensions are
Speaker 2: really hitting a focus point now.
Speaker 9: The focus point now is because open ai wants to restructure,
Speaker 9: and it's we've been hearing for a long time now
Speaker 9: about negotiations between them and Microsoft. And you know, Microsoft,
Speaker 9: as you pointed out, they made some changes that Okay,
Speaker 9: you want so much compute. Maybe we don't want to
Speaker 9: give all that compute, so we're going to allow you
Speaker 9: to go seek it from others. Seek it from Oracle,
Speaker 9: seek it from you know, they're getting some from core
Speaker 9: Weave now. And so we are seeing little bits and
Speaker 9: changes in the contract. I mean, you know Microsoft put
Speaker 9: in I think it was fourteen billion dollars. They are
Speaker 9: a savvy shop. They're going to make sure they get
Speaker 9: their full ROI here, lu.
Speaker 3: Meg's Brody Ford. We appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much as shift gears talk quantum now
Speaker 2: because IBM has announced the latest milestone in its roadmap
Speaker 2: to bring quantum computing into the future, planning to build
Speaker 2: the world's first fault.
Speaker 3: Tolerant quantum computer by twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 2: It's called them Starling and expected to perform twenty thousand
Speaker 2: times more operations than today's current quantum computers. Joining us
Speaker 2: now Jerry Chow, IBM, Fellow Director of Quantum Systems. And
Speaker 2: this is a new error correcting code. You say, basically
Speaker 2: it cracks the code on science challenges of actually making
Speaker 2: quantum of reality.
Speaker 13: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I mean the whole here, the whole thing here is
Speaker 4: that we crack the code in actually building something that's
Speaker 4: realistic and planning for this with the full architecture, which
Speaker 4: gives us the roadmap to go year of the year
Speaker 4: of new technologies to hit that milestone in twenty twenty
Speaker 4: nine with IBM Starling, can you.
Speaker 2: Take us from here in twenty twenty five to twenty
Speaker 2: twenty nine what.
Speaker 3: Needs to be achieved?
Speaker 2: Because there is so much hype, we kind of want
Speaker 2: to disentangle what actually becomes reality.
Speaker 13: Yeah, no, absolutely, there's a great question.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of work that's been going on within
Speaker 4: small demonstrations of error correction and the concepts that make
Speaker 4: us believe that air creation can work. But what reve
Speaker 4: defined is a technology roadmap that takes us from an
Speaker 4: error correct did memory and the technologies that go into that,
Speaker 4: then into operation across multiple memories, and then into a
Speaker 4: large a larger scale system that brings in the operations
Speaker 4: that are needed for a universal control to do any
Speaker 4: kind of algorithm that gets us the Starling.
Speaker 13: So a year after year of new technologies in our roadmap.
Speaker 3: Okay, people are excited.
Speaker 2: IBM shares are at a record high, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's no surprise that has come in tank At the
Speaker 2: same time as some of your announcements, can you talk
Speaker 2: to us about them different ways that different companies are
Speaker 2: deploying this, because we've had, you know, a year or
Speaker 2: so ago, what was it, the Heron chip from you
Speaker 2: guys really set the pet bar. But we've also had
Speaker 2: the Willow chip coming from the likes of Google. You've
Speaker 2: had as a lot out of Amazon, and there are
Speaker 2: different ways of doing quantum, that's right. How is what
Speaker 2: you're doing different from some of the other competitors.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think we've really taken approach of getting
Speaker 4: this out there and really building the whole ecosystem around us.
Speaker 4: We've actually been putting these out on the clouds in
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, first just a five cubet machine back then, right,
Speaker 4: and we've been successfully scaling since then, and we have
Speaker 4: multiple one hundred cube machines the Heroin processors that.
Speaker 13: Are available to our cloud users today.
Speaker 4: So there's an ecosystem of many users in companies that
Speaker 4: are leveraging our machines to actually find and discover new
Speaker 4: algorithms and applications.
Speaker 3: When you see many users, what are we talking about.
Speaker 13: We have over five hundred thousand users.
Speaker 4: We have a business ecosystem, our IBM Quantum network of
Speaker 4: nearly three hundred institutions, companies, startups, national laboratories, academia.
Speaker 2: And the reason everyone gets so excited when we hear
Speaker 2: of the latest greatest chip, when we hear of a
Speaker 2: roadmap to twenty twenty nine is because of the things
Speaker 2: it could do. Absolutely, what are they doing it with
Speaker 2: these five thousand people that are already out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, like there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 4: of work that's getting ready for the larger systems, but
Speaker 4: also we're in this phase where we're going to hit
Speaker 4: quantum advantage in the.
Speaker 13: Next few years. Quantum it's when we can.
Speaker 4: Do something that's cheaper, faster, or more accurately using a
Speaker 4: quantum computer plus classical computer than just a classical computer alone.
Speaker 2: It's like AGI, but for quantum versus versus normal computers.
Speaker 4: And you're already starting to see the intrusion of using
Speaker 4: it with high performance supercomputers to look at things like
Speaker 4: lecular structure, which is a very hard problem that you
Speaker 4: tend to only use high performance computers for.
Speaker 2: And that is why everyone thinks medical applications are gonna
Speaker 2: be so important. But everyone's also got very excited about
Speaker 2: the fact that quantum's gonna help with generas of AI.
Speaker 3: How is that feeding into you right now?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really really good point because I think,
Speaker 4: you know, AI is the buzz of Obviously quantum is
Speaker 4: also coming right right right at the same time, I
Speaker 4: think the way to think about it is it's additive. Right,
Speaker 4: there are certain algorithms in the AI space that quantum
Speaker 4: can help with. But also what we see here is
Speaker 4: really that we're defining the future of computing. It's really bits, neurons,
Speaker 4: and cubits, right, they all need to be working together
Speaker 4: in an architecture we call quantum centric supercomputing. So you're
Speaker 4: gonna have your CPUs, you're gonna have your GPUs, and
Speaker 4: we're going to have your QPUs as well, all working
Speaker 4: together to solve problems that best leverage each of those
Speaker 4: modalities for parts of the problem and giving you overall
Speaker 4: more power.
Speaker 2: By putting it in the hands of people. Power probably
Speaker 2: is one of the key words you're thinking of. Is
Speaker 2: that going to be a bottleneck? We thin thinking about
Speaker 2: how power and infrastructure is the limiting factor when it
Speaker 2: comes to AI right now.
Speaker 4: I mean, certainly one of the key selling points for
Speaker 4: quantum is actually how efficient it can be for the
Speaker 4: types of problems that you're looking to solve which require large,
Speaker 4: high performance supercomputers. We're doing it a fraction of the
Speaker 4: power despite even the infrastructure that we're building around some
Speaker 4: of our super connecting Cuban architectures.
Speaker 2: Can you talk about the architecture of the ecosystem for.
Speaker 3: Us as well?
Speaker 2: Because Jensen Woan suddenly kind of corrected himself on what
Speaker 2: he thinks is going to take until twenty twenty twenty
Speaker 2: twenty years from now he thought would be when quantum
Speaker 2: computers become really useful, and then he backtracked.
Speaker 3: Ultimately, he's probably.
Speaker 2: Backtracking because he sees this as a business line and
Speaker 2: an opportunity for him. Where does IBM fit in terms
Speaker 2: of who it sells to and who it works alongside.
Speaker 4: So our strategies really provide the differentiating computing platform in
Speaker 4: terms of the hardware and the software at the bottom,
Speaker 4: and then building this ecosystem all around it. A big
Speaker 4: part of our strategy has been having an open source
Speaker 4: software development Kisskit, which really appeals to a broader set
Speaker 4: of users so that different startups users can all be
Speaker 4: plugged into using this in addition to their other computing resources.
Speaker 3: So taught me through.
Speaker 2: The supply chain here, because at the moment you are
Speaker 2: going to create the actual hardware. You're doing it in
Speaker 2: Upstate New York, You're doing it probably across the United States,
Speaker 2: and you've been focused on at home manufacturing in many
Speaker 2: ways for that. But you're also going to be making
Speaker 2: this software. You want to be a one stop shop.
Speaker 2: But who do you have to rely on?
Speaker 13: Well, actually, the software pieces that open source.
Speaker 4: We have a lot of integration partners, third party of
Speaker 4: startups are actually building functions within our ecosystem so that
Speaker 4: they can drive verticals in optimization or in chemistry or
Speaker 4: in machine learning that plug right in and leverage other
Speaker 4: forms of compute in parallel with our machines.
Speaker 2: I mean, ask a bit of a loaded question, Jerry,
Speaker 2: But we keep on comparing US versus China when it
Speaker 2: comes to AI.
Speaker 3: What are you.
Speaker 2: Actually seeing international adoption and quantum? Does everyone work harmoniously
Speaker 2: together when it comes to quantum at the moment, because
Speaker 2: it's still very much that early stage or you.
Speaker 4: Race, We certainly see a lot of adoption throughout the world,
Speaker 4: but certainly it is a race right, there is definitely
Speaker 4: a technological race between the US and China. There's been
Speaker 4: a lot of government funding in the US space in
Speaker 4: this area, but I think we are also looking to really
Speaker 4: make some bold moves here and really sort of cement
Speaker 4: technologies a roadmap towards a quantum centric supercomputer that has
Speaker 4: bold vision.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for talking us through that bold vision today,
Speaker 2: Jerry Choo of IBM. Fascinating to dig in on quantum. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: coming up, check out these last mile delivery robots.
Speaker 3: A company behind them.
Speaker 2: It is closed a new funding round backing from Open Aiyes,
Speaker 2: Sam Altman and his brother will have the details next.
Speaker 3: This is a bluebg tech. They're coming behind last mild.
Speaker 2: Delivery robots Coco Robotics. Well, it has just raised eighty
Speaker 2: million dollars in its latest funding round. Startups backers include
Speaker 2: open Aiyes, Sam Altman, and SNR Zach Rash Coco Robotics
Speaker 2: c young founder joins us.
Speaker 3: Now the money, what was it for, Zach?
Speaker 14: Well, we really want to expand the service to more areas,
Speaker 14: So we're building the best automas vehicle for our urban environment.
Speaker 14: So we're operating in Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, Helsinki, Finland.
Speaker 15: We have a lot more cities coming up soon.
Speaker 14: But you know, we want to build the best vehicle
Speaker 14: to move goods around cities, to make it much cheaper
Speaker 14: for our customers and commercials.
Speaker 3: Okay, so is it all about US markets? Is there
Speaker 3: an international focus as well here?
Speaker 15: Yeah?
Speaker 14: So in the US we've been partnering with sorda Ash
Speaker 14: and uber Eats, and then we recently partnered with waltz
Speaker 14: over in Helsinki. So we're live in Helsinki, Finland and
Speaker 14: we have a lot more European markets coming up soon.
Speaker 2: And what are some of the bottlenecks that you've seen
Speaker 2: thus far rolling these things out? I've seen them at
Speaker 2: plenty of conferences. I'm yet to get the deliveries here
Speaker 2: in New York.
Speaker 3: So what are is it? Government relations?
Speaker 2: Is it ultimately just making sure that they can they're
Speaker 2: fit for purpose in some of these more urban spaces.
Speaker 15: Yeah.
Speaker 14: So at first we had to get the technology to
Speaker 14: work well enough where we can deliver goods to people
Speaker 14: at high quality. We're moving a lot of food and
Speaker 14: groceries today, right, so you're very time sensitive. It needs
Speaker 14: to get there on time or people won't use the robots,
Speaker 14: and the second thing we.
Speaker 15: Need to do is get the cost to be lower.
Speaker 14: Than the cost of a human driver or doesn't make
Speaker 14: any sense, right, So we got the technology to that place.
Speaker 14: We did that first in Los Angeles. Now we're scaling
Speaker 14: up as fast as we can to get this service
Speaker 14: to more and more people. The government relations side of
Speaker 14: this has actually been going really well. We have a
Speaker 14: really good relationship with the cities. We work with half
Speaker 14: the states in the country of past legislation to allow
Speaker 14: this sort of vehicle to operate, and I think we're
Speaker 14: seeing a big trend in Europe to.
Speaker 15: Adopt this as well.
Speaker 14: There's typically not enough drivers to do the deliveries that
Speaker 14: exist today, and it's incredibly expensive. So we're able to
Speaker 14: make it more available to people, make it much more affordable,
Speaker 14: and that usually aligns with the goals of our cities
Speaker 14: and just.
Speaker 2: Walk us through the process that those who haven't been
Speaker 2: lucky enough to have their ice cream delivered via Coco Robotic,
Speaker 2: what is it? How do they get contacted when they're
Speaker 2: upping their high rise?
Speaker 14: Yeah, so if you order on uberate's your DoorDash, you'll
Speaker 14: have the you know, the option to opt in to
Speaker 14: an atomous vehicle. If you opt in, it's usually a
Speaker 14: lower lower cost to you. There's no tipping involved, so
Speaker 14: most people do opt in. If you're in a high rise,
Speaker 14: you can choose. I don't want a robot. I want
Speaker 14: someone to come and bring it up to my door.
Speaker 14: But I think we're seeing that happen less and less,
Speaker 14: and it's a I think the human delivery experience can
Speaker 14: also be a bit inconsistent. Maybe they'll bring it up
Speaker 14: to your door, maybe they'll leave it the lobby, maybe
Speaker 14: they'll leave it on the curb side. So one of
Speaker 14: the benefits of using our Times vehicles is they will
Speaker 14: be parked in front of your store. They'll be waiting
Speaker 14: patiently or and sorry, in front of your building. They'll
Speaker 14: be waiting patiently for you to come down and retrieve
Speaker 14: you order. It's locked, it's insulated, the food is packaged
Speaker 14: and preserved in the best possible way for you, and
Speaker 14: you will wait for you to be ready.
Speaker 15: So once you're ready, you come down, you click a.
Speaker 14: Button in the app, a little open and you get
Speaker 14: your goods.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is, sadly we've heard over the course of
Speaker 2: some moments of protest people taking out their anger on
Speaker 2: driverless cars, for example, over in LA. Have you seen
Speaker 2: any implication on your own robotics? How do people treat
Speaker 2: them out there in the world.
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's well, it's interesting. We were we were I
Speaker 15: just saw this video that was.
Speaker 14: Going around TikTok where the robot was driving through a protest.
Speaker 14: We know, we worked at the city to geofence off
Speaker 14: some areas where we shouldn't operate because there's active's protest,
Speaker 14: but you know, they're popping up and moving all around
Speaker 14: the city, so it's hard to be super precise. But
Speaker 14: what ended up happening is everyone made a like a
Speaker 14: tunnel a path and started chanting Coco and let the
Speaker 14: robot through, which I thought was was was quite nice
Speaker 14: and somewhat unexpected. But I think people have a lot
Speaker 14: of affinity towards these I mean, we called it Coco
Speaker 14: on purpose. It's it's you know, we looked up a
Speaker 14: list of cute dog names. It was number one on
Speaker 14: the list. So I think on one end, I think
Speaker 14: people have some affinity towards them, and on the other hand,
Speaker 14: people realize it's delivering their local businesses and their neighbors,
Speaker 14: you know, dinner for their family. So I do think
Speaker 14: people are actually quite respectful of the vehicle and making
Speaker 14: sure that they're not disrupting, you know, their neighbors are
Speaker 14: really the community product, Zach.
Speaker 2: At the moment, the competition, I'm sure is a gig
Speaker 2: worker and a car and a delivery, But how many
Speaker 2: robotics competitors are starting to pop up?
Speaker 3: And is that a good thing for the ecosystem?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think the timing is really the timing is
Speaker 14: really interesting right now. Right we've been doing this for
Speaker 14: about five years, A few things have happened in the world.
Speaker 14: You have AI clearly has become extremely capable.
Speaker 15: You first had chats to b T.
Speaker 14: Now you have kind of AI everywhere and all of
Speaker 14: your products, all big techs talking about it. You have
Speaker 14: waymos you see on the road all the time now.
Speaker 14: So I think a time as vehicles and AI and
Speaker 14: how that goes into the physical world has become very
Speaker 14: real for businesses, for investors, for you know, analysts covering
Speaker 14: some of these stocks, and for consumers. So consumers are
Speaker 14: starting to demand these services be integrated more and more.
Speaker 14: At the same time, the cost of delivery has continued
Speaker 14: to go up and up and up, so you have
Speaker 14: kind of this macro where these brands and businesses are
Speaker 14: concerned about you know, consumer spending and you know how
Speaker 14: much how much more cost they can tolerate on delivery.
Speaker 14: And then you have this other thing of AI that's
Speaker 14: seeming to clearly work and do useful things. So I
Speaker 14: think that's caused this to be the right time. And
Speaker 14: we have, you know, seemingly unlimited demand for the product,
Speaker 14: and we're just trying to ramp up production as fast
Speaker 14: as possible.
Speaker 2: And get this very briefly, Zach, you must have unlimited
Speaker 2: demand for data to feed into the underlying lognacle's model
Speaker 2: or whatever you're using to power this.
Speaker 3: Where are you getting it from?
Speaker 15: So we've done millions of miles of deliveries.
Speaker 14: We've done over half a million deliveries, and those are
Speaker 14: deliveries happening in the most chaotic parts of the world.
Speaker 12: Right.
Speaker 14: So this is Chicago, this is downtown LA and Hollywood,
Speaker 14: this is Helsinki covered and covered in snow.
Speaker 15: It's Miami with you know, hurricane winds going and rain.
Speaker 14: And not only do we have you know, video data
Speaker 14: of the robots navigating these situations, you know, we have
Speaker 14: our remote operators who can come in during a delivery
Speaker 14: take over for the autonomy, take over for the AI
Speaker 14: and actually correct it and explain for it what to do.
Speaker 14: So that's a very rich data set to train the system,
Speaker 14: and it has to work really well because again, we're
Speaker 14: moving food. So if you have autonomy that works kind
Speaker 14: of well, but it delays the trip by twenty minutes,
Speaker 14: it's not useful.
Speaker 3: Zach, It's been great having you.
Speaker 2: Zach Rash, co founder and CEO of Coco Robotics. Bloomberg's
Speaker 2: Emily Chang sat down with Melinda French Gates in Seattle
Speaker 2: to discuss her next chapter as a philanthropic powerhouse now.
Speaker 2: They discussed her early career at Microsoft, but also her
Speaker 2: outlook on the Trump administration and big text influence in Washington.
Speaker 16: How is President Trump and these actions? How is this
Speaker 16: impacting the philanthropic world?
Speaker 17: The cuts in USA ideal alone, sixteen point nine million
Speaker 17: women will not get maternal health services. People are going
Speaker 17: hungry because of those cuts. As Americans? Is that what
Speaker 17: we want? Do we want to create more crises around
Speaker 17: the world, or do we want peace and prosperity for
Speaker 17: others so they can live where they are? Philanthropy can
Speaker 17: take a risk that we wouldn't want government to take
Speaker 17: with our taxpayer funding, but it can prove things out
Speaker 17: at scale, and then governments can come in to scale
Speaker 17: that up.
Speaker 16: Alon Musk and Doge, how do you feel about one man,
Speaker 16: a billionaire, having that much independent power within the federal government.
Speaker 17: Well, it's unprecedented to have anyone come in and say,
Speaker 17: you know, we're just going to wipe it out like that.
Speaker 3: That makes no sense to me.
Speaker 16: What do you make of the tech billionaires lining up
Speaker 16: behind President Trump and Silicon Valley's right turn.
Speaker 17: What I've seen in the last sixty months to a
Speaker 17: year is many people who use to say one thing
Speaker 17: have absolutely shifted over here. Look, a democracy is made
Speaker 17: up by our beliefs, and our investments and our values,
Speaker 17: and we of all times right now should be living
Speaker 17: those values out, not pivoting to what some calms person
Speaker 17: tells us is.
Speaker 15: The right thing to do.
Speaker 13: Right That would be ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Emine Chang's full conversation with Melinda French Gates. It's on
Speaker 2: the circuit on bloombgg dot com and on Bloomberg Originals.
Speaker 2: Now it's time for talking tech, and first up, were Australia,
Speaker 2: it's moving closer to a ban on social media for
Speaker 2: users under the age of sixteen. Key trial found that
Speaker 2: checking a user's age is technologically possible and can be
Speaker 2: integrated into existing services now.
Speaker 3: The government backed findings.
Speaker 2: Helped to clear the way for new laws that would
Speaker 2: find digital platforms responsible for enforcing the age limit plus
Speaker 2: TENUS US sales they decline and it deepens, with weekly
Speaker 2: sales dropping more than twenty five percent.
Speaker 3: Compared to a year ago. Am mid President Trump's.
Speaker 2: Taris now the sales route comes alongside the company's cuts
Speaker 2: in advertising spends. The commercial output now only in the
Speaker 2: dozens and Emil musks thirty three billion dollars buyout of
Speaker 2: x by Xai, but it's facing new scrutiny from EU regulators.
Speaker 2: According to sources, the European Commission says that the deal
Speaker 2: could influence the scale of potential fines that's under the
Speaker 2: Digital Services Act. The Commission is also considering whether sales
Speaker 2: from Musks other private businesses should be included to determine
Speaker 2: potential fines against x Now that does it For this
Speaker 2: edition of Bloomberg Tech, do not forget to check out
Speaker 2: the podcast Tune in this weekend. You can find it
Speaker 2: on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 2: an iHeart.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Tech