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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I am joined by whitetail hunting coach and

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Speaker 2: Habitat consultant Thomas Milsna to discuss how he uses the

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Speaker 2: scientific method to kill big bucks. All right, welcome back

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Speaker 2: to another episode of the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by First Light and their Camel for Conservation

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Speaker 2: initiative and the brand new line of whitetail hunting kits

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Speaker 2: that just came out earlier this year. And today we've

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Speaker 2: got a great episode of very interesting episode. If you

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Speaker 2: are the kind of guy or girl who likes to

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Speaker 2: get into the nitty gritty, if you are a detail

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Speaker 2: oriented hunter, if you care about the little things, about

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Speaker 2: getting a little bit better every single day, this is

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Speaker 2: a conversation you will not want to miss. My guest

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Speaker 2: today is Thomas Milsna. He was on the show earlier

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Speaker 2: this spring during our Habitat series. Just like our guests

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Speaker 2: last week. He came on for a Habitat podcast in

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Speaker 2: the past. Well, Thomas came on for a Habitat podcast

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Speaker 2: this past spring, but I knew we had to get

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Speaker 2: him back on the show to dive into the hunting

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Speaker 2: side of things, because he's got a very interesting approach

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Speaker 2: to doing things. As Bobby was last week. He is

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Speaker 2: very analytical, very thoughtful about how he does things, why

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Speaker 2: he does things. The approach he takes to hunting is

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Speaker 2: not something that happens by accident. It is something that

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Speaker 2: happens because of careful decisions, data analysis, you know, thinking

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Speaker 2: through the stuff that we learn as deer hunters, observations,

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Speaker 2: camera photos, weather factors, historical patterns, time of the year,

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Speaker 2: all of these different moving pieces. Thomas does a really

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Speaker 2: good job of tracking them, studying them, and learning from them.

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Speaker 2: And he likes to think about this the kind of

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Speaker 2: with the language and the kind of structure I guess

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Speaker 2: of the scientific method, the way that scientists go about

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Speaker 2: researching and studying and then developing theories around different things

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Speaker 2: in the world, whether it's physics, the natural world, whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know. He is taking that same approach and applying

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Speaker 2: it to deer hunting. It's very interesting. It's right up

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Speaker 2: my alley. If you've been listening to this podcast, you

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Speaker 2: are probably into the same kinds of things. Thomas is

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Speaker 2: a you know, a dedicated, very successful deer hunter up

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Speaker 2: there in Wisconsin. He worked for a decade for a

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Speaker 2: trail camera company doing research and prototyping and helping develop

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Speaker 2: products on that side. He has a wildlife biology background,

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Speaker 2: and now he is a white tail hunting coach and

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Speaker 2: a habitat consultant and works with folks all over the

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Speaker 2: country to build better wildlife habitat and specifically to build

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Speaker 2: better deer hunters. So that's exactly the kind of person

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Speaker 2: we want to talk to you today. As we are

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Speaker 2: here as I speak in October, with the best part

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Speaker 2: of the hunting season right ahead of us. It's very exciting.

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Speaker 2: So today Thomas is going to break down how he

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Speaker 2: uses the scientific method, how he tracks deer observations and

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Speaker 2: photos and behavior, How he tracks things like his food plots,

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Speaker 2: his food sources, how deer are using them. He tracks pressure.

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Speaker 2: He does something called a pressure audit. We discuss that,

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Speaker 2: We discuss his thoughts on timing, so all the many

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Speaker 2: different variables that maybe influence deer movement. Which of those

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Speaker 2: does he care about? Which of those does maybe he

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Speaker 2: not care about as much. We discuss a lot about

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Speaker 2: tuition versus analysis. We get into some specific ideas that

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Speaker 2: should help you here in October or in November, discussing

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Speaker 2: stand site, you know, strategy, how to pick where a hunt,

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Speaker 2: how to choose when to hunt, how to understand a

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Speaker 2: deer's pattern, and a lot around making better decisions as

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Speaker 2: a deer hunter. So that's what's in store today. It's

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Speaker 2: a good one. You are going to learn something today

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Speaker 2: that will help I can guarantee that. So let's just quit. Uh,

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Speaker 2: let's let I'm gonna stop all at my head. I

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Speaker 2: guess I'm want to say. Let's get to this conversation

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Speaker 2: with Thomas. I hope you enjoy this, and here we go.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into the episode. All right here with me

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Speaker 2: back on the show is Thomas Mills. And Thomas, welcome

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Speaker 2: back to the show.

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Speaker 3: Mark, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you making time. This is a crazy time

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Speaker 2: of year for a lot of us, and I know

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Speaker 2: you just came off of a war, so thank you

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Speaker 2: for being here. And I'm excited about this one because

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Speaker 2: We had a really great chat this spring, but it

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Speaker 2: was just habitat kind of land management philosophy, really good stuff,

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Speaker 2: but I knew there was this whole other half of

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Speaker 2: what you do that we didn't get to touch on

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Speaker 2: at all. And I kind of noted back then like

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Speaker 2: you got to get Thomas back on someday, and I

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Speaker 2: just figure, why not do it sooner than later. So

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Speaker 2: here we are hunting seasons on and the plan for today,

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Speaker 2: Thomas is just to get deep into the weeds of

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Speaker 2: how you approach deer hunting because something about you, I

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Speaker 2: guess it's consistent with a lot of the best deer

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Speaker 2: hunters that I really appreciate and that I learned from

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Speaker 2: the most, at least, are those who are very analytical,

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Speaker 2: those who are very detail oriented. You know, There's some

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Speaker 2: deer hunters who kind of go by feel and it

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Speaker 2: just just have like an intuition and their experience points

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Speaker 2: them in the right direction, and they're very successful despite

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Speaker 2: that or with that. But I have a harder time

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Speaker 2: learning from that person because so much of what they

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Speaker 2: do they can't quite describe. They just know to do it.

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Speaker 2: But then there's other people who do things very thoughtfully

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Speaker 2: who have very clear analytical reasons behind their actions, and

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Speaker 2: you're one of those people. Mark Drury is one of

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Speaker 2: those people. The guy we just talk to not too

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Speaker 2: long ago. Bobby Kendall's like that. I really enjoyed diving

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Speaker 2: into those people's approaches because I think they're you can

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Speaker 2: translate that to action for other people. So it's a

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Speaker 2: very long winded way of fluffing you up and getting

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Speaker 2: you ready for this one time. But uh, you killed

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Speaker 2: the buck recently, so maybe that's a good place to start. Huh.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about how that happened?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I want to back up first, because I

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Speaker 3: think you hit the nail right on the head right.

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Speaker 3: I forever was one of those people that hunted with intuition.

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Speaker 3: Right when I went full time consulting and coaching White

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Speaker 3: Tail Coaching, then I had to kind of dial back

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Speaker 3: and be like, how do I explain this to other

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Speaker 3: people so that it makes sense to them and ultimately

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Speaker 3: help them build that intuition Because I think innately we

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Speaker 3: all have that intuition somewhere in there. But I also

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Speaker 3: think that it's also easy to get distracted by, you know,

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Speaker 3: things that you hear you know, you listen to there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of great podcasts out there, obviously yours being

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Speaker 3: one of them, and you might listen to that and

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Speaker 3: think that you need to apply that to your specific

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Speaker 3: situation where maybe it's not applicable, right, and you can

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Speaker 3: get distracted by that, or you know, the latest gear

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Speaker 3: trends on the market. Oh, I need that that's going

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Speaker 3: to help me solve this problem or that problem, And

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Speaker 3: it very well might, but at the same time it

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Speaker 3: might just distract you, you know, be this other shiny object.

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Speaker 3: So when I started consulting, I really really took the

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Speaker 3: time to dig into every situation I was in, every

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Speaker 3: experience that I had, and kind of reverse engineer it

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Speaker 3: and figure out how I put myself in that position.

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Speaker 3: And that's what helped me formulate this approach that I

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Speaker 3: take now working with other clients and on my own too.

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Speaker 3: So the buck that I recently killed, I applied to

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Speaker 3: all the same tactics, right, and I don't have like

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Speaker 3: a very specific strategy so to speak. You know, some

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Speaker 3: guys are real geared towards food plots or you know,

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Speaker 3: creating specified movements on their property, which we do that

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Speaker 3: on client properties. When they're in a situation where they

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Speaker 3: can manipulate habitat, or they have the budget or just

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Speaker 3: the property itself where they can make these changes. My

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Speaker 3: hunting situation, my personal hunting situation, I share a rather

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Speaker 3: large farm. It's about a fifteen hundred acre dairy farm,

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Speaker 3: about four hundred acres of its huntable land. I share

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Speaker 3: that with seventeen other hunters, mostly family members, and because

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Speaker 3: it's a functional farm, that's the priority, right So I

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Speaker 3: can't go to my dad who owns and operates that farm,

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Speaker 3: and say, hey, I want to get rid of this field.

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Speaker 3: Back here this roll crop and put it in switchgrass

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Speaker 3: for better betting, because it's more convenient. You know, I'd

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Speaker 3: like to place deer here, so they move deer, or

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Speaker 3: they move into this area and I can access it better.

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Speaker 3: That's an ideal situation, which you know, again, if you

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Speaker 3: have that control, that's awesome. It's going to create more opportunities.

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Speaker 3: But I've never had that control on that particular property.

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Speaker 3: So my approach has kind of evolved over time, and

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Speaker 3: again it's mostly just how I can explain it better

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Speaker 3: these days, because I have to relate that to other

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Speaker 3: client properties and get them to be able to associate

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Speaker 3: the things that I do, so it's again applicable to

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Speaker 3: their situation.

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Speaker 2: So start to jump in here. But when you're you

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Speaker 2: bring up some really interesting questions for me, because you

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Speaker 2: just said that you used to be kind of that

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Speaker 2: intuitive hunter, and then you had to kind of drill

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Speaker 2: into your own psyche to figure out like why am

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Speaker 2: I doing what I'm doing? How am I doing what

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Speaker 2: I'm doing? And so now you exist in a world

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Speaker 2: where you have figured out a way to explain your

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Speaker 2: approach and you have kind of laid it out. But

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Speaker 2: at the same time, I imagine you still have some

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Speaker 2: of that intuitive stuff happening in your mind. So when

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Speaker 2: you go to make a plan for the day or

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Speaker 2: for the season, how much of that is actually you

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Speaker 2: sitting down and looking at your planner and looking at

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Speaker 2: your notes and looking at like a very much a

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Speaker 2: formulaic approach. I know you have the ability to do

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Speaker 2: that because you've now broke it all down. So how

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Speaker 2: much of it do you actually do yourself versus go

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Speaker 2: by feel? And how do you know when to go

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Speaker 2: by feel versus when to follow the formula?

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Speaker 3: I would say the formula takes me about the first

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Speaker 3: eighty five to ninety percent, and then that last ten

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Speaker 3: percent has to be by feel. And you know that

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Speaker 3: intuition has to come into play at some point because

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Speaker 3: there's so many variables involved and things are always changing,

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Speaker 3: and that's the thing. So I employ what I refer

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Speaker 3: to as a scientific approach to hunting strategy, and simply put,

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Speaker 3: it's utilizing the scientific method to figure out what's going on. Right,

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Speaker 3: So the scientific method, you're observing, analyzing. Then you're researching

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Speaker 3: or in the hunting world referred to that as scouting, right,

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Speaker 3: So we're collecting information. Then you're putting together a theory.

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Speaker 3: Then you're trying to test that theory, prove or disprove

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Speaker 3: the theory. And then once you've if you've proved the theory,

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Speaker 3: you know, you might prove it by a trail camera okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm getting a picture here, now I know that's happening.

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Speaker 3: Or you might prove it by actually going out and

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Speaker 3: hunting or observing from a distance, you know, firsthand experience.

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Speaker 3: But once you've proved that theory, if you're not actually executing,

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Speaker 3: then the next step is to plan and prepare and

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Speaker 3: then finally actually execute. If you just keep repeating that

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Speaker 3: cycle over and over again. You can either one fine

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Speaker 3: tune your property. You know, here's my theory. Oh it

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Speaker 3: worked up to this point, but oh, actually that's not

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Speaker 3: that good of a betting area, or my access isn't

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Speaker 3: that good. So these are things I need to work

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Speaker 3: on in the off season, or you have to just

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Speaker 3: adjust that and you know, recalibrate essentially. But ultimately, what

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Speaker 3: it comes down to is the more information that you have,

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Speaker 3: the more precise that theory can be. And you know,

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Speaker 3: observation is such an important factor there, which in this

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Speaker 3: day and age with technology, you know, trail cameras and everything,

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Speaker 3: you can collect a lot of information. But again, I

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Speaker 3: think it's easy to get us distracted by a lot

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Speaker 3: of the information too, and I think that's.

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Speaker 2: A big part of it. Yeah, I just have to

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Speaker 2: say that I love so much that you just describe

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Speaker 2: the scientific method on a deer hunting podcast, because that

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Speaker 2: is that's so much in line with how I approach

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Speaker 2: things and so key and I think a key thing

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Speaker 2: is a lot of deer hunters will just go and

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Speaker 2: do a thing, and we'll do it over and over

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Speaker 2: and over again, so maybe they have a theory. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: a hypothesis and they they try it out, but they

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Speaker 2: just keep on trying it and they're never actually paying

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Speaker 2: attention to the feedback they're getting and then adjusting. And

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Speaker 2: that that's such an important part is you test to

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Speaker 2: your hypothesis, but then you have to listen to the feedback,

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Speaker 2: either confirm or deny your hypothesis, and then launch a

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Speaker 2: new experiment try again. And that is that is a

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Speaker 2: huge key to ever successfully figuring out how to kill

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Speaker 2: mature bucks. You just lay it out there very clearly

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Speaker 2: for if somebody wants a basic formula for how to

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Speaker 2: go out and just do this and get better and

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Speaker 2: better and better, it's that. If you want to oversimplify,

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Speaker 2: it's right there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly it, you know. And that's how

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Speaker 3: we can apply effective hunting strategy to any situation. It's

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Speaker 3: by analyzing it, right, just kind of breaking it down,

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Speaker 3: what you know, what does that situation offer? What type

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Speaker 3: of opportunities are there? Or you know, there's two sides

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Speaker 3: of that, right, what's there for the public land guy

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Speaker 3: or the permission hunting person or maybe even lease a property.

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Speaker 3: You're trying to take advantage of a situation versus what's

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Speaker 3: there currently and what do I want to be there?

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Speaker 3: So I call it the scientific approach. Technically, it's like

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Speaker 3: a pseudo scientific approach, right, because there's a couple of

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Speaker 3: things there. One, it's not really a repeatable process down

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Speaker 3: to a t because every situation is going to be

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Speaker 3: a little bit different. Right, once you've killed that deer

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Speaker 3: and it's it's new variables the next time around. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of things that come into play time and

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Speaker 3: time again, right, So you learn a lot every time

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Speaker 3: you start to see deer with similar personalities over the years,

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Speaker 3: or following certain trends or patterns on your property, But

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Speaker 3: ultimately it's a little bit different every time. The other

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Speaker 3: thing too is, you know, we were not completely objective

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Speaker 3: with our analysis of the situation because we do have

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Speaker 3: a very specific goal. But again that works in our favor.

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Speaker 3: But then when it correct correct a lot of incomplete information, yep.

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Speaker 3: But then the other thing, you know is when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the hypothesis or creating that theory, there's two

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Speaker 3: ways to look at that too. One is what's actually

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Speaker 3: happening right now? You know, again, is it a situation

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Speaker 3: where you have no control or is it game time?

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Speaker 3: You know, are we in season like we are now,

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Speaker 3: so what are we trying to analyze that we can

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Speaker 3: make happen right now? But then the other side of it,

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Speaker 3: and I strongly suggest people thinking that this way too,

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Speaker 3: is what do we want to happen? Because if we're

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Speaker 3: looking at the current situation and we're at the same

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Speaker 3: time thinking about like how we actually want this to

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Speaker 3: play out, then when it comes to the postseason stuff

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Speaker 3: and the habitat work or or just these little what

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Speaker 3: I refer to as micro adjustments, you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: are these deer all moving through this area like we hypothesize,

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Speaker 3: but we can't get a shot at all of them? Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's pinch this down a little bit more, create a

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Speaker 3: little bit better pinch point or again, you know, access

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Speaker 3: all those things that come into play. So there's two

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Speaker 3: ways to approach that with you know, what's actually happening,

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Speaker 3: what we want to happen. But ultimately, yes, we just

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Speaker 3: work through that process and we're just trying to learn

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Speaker 3: every time, every time we try to build on that

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Speaker 3: a little bit more, a little bit more. So to

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Speaker 3: go all the way back and answer your question on

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Speaker 3: the you know, the analytical approach versus intuition. The data

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Speaker 3: for me generally is what points me in that direction.

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Speaker 3: And you know, for example, this buck that I just

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Speaker 3: killed tagged out my second hunt, should have tagged out

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Speaker 3: my first hunt of the season, but ultimately my second

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Speaker 3: time out there that deer, in particular, I had the

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Speaker 3: data in the past experiences from trail cameras and you know,

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Speaker 3: first hand observation and hunting to know where that deer

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Speaker 3: was going to be around a certain time of the year.

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Speaker 3: And then what it came down to actually was the

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Speaker 3: most recent trail camera information that I had, and kind

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Speaker 3: of going through that data, that's where I use that planner,

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Speaker 3: and I just kind of fill out when you know, time, date, location,

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Speaker 3: where that buck showed up. Really try to focus on

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Speaker 3: pictures obviously during daylight or close to daylight during those

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Speaker 3: hunting hours. You know, pictures in the middle of the

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Speaker 3: night don't often tell you a lot. They tell you

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Speaker 3: the deers in the area, but not always applicable to

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Speaker 3: the hunting them, right. But I go through that information

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Speaker 3: and I start to drill into these four key elements,

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Speaker 3: which you probably saw some of that in those the

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Speaker 3: habits before Habitat video, but those four key elements really

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Speaker 3: are critical in simplifying but still quantifying all these variables

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Speaker 3: and and that's, you know, ultimately what we use to

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Speaker 3: apply to the research side of things and then also

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Speaker 3: use those to create that theory. I think it just

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Speaker 3: simplifies things and it goes back to being able to

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Speaker 3: explain it to people in an easier way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so can you can you redescribe or can

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Speaker 2: you can you take what you just kind of detailed

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Speaker 2: there a little bit and put it into like the

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Speaker 2: scientific approach kind of formula that you have, Like how

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Speaker 2: you took this historical knowledge and the recent knowledge and

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Speaker 2: then built a hypothesis that then you're going to test hunting.

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Speaker 2: Can you describe how you did that? I think it's

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Speaker 2: it's a very interesting example of how we can think

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Speaker 2: about taking this scientific approach and apply it to our

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Speaker 2: own hunts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, you know again step number one, observe, analyze.

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Speaker 3: We're essentially what we're trying to do there is ask

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Speaker 3: the questions based on our goals, So where is that

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Speaker 3: deer going to be? When do I think I have

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Speaker 3: the best opportunity to kill him? And then the second

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Speaker 3: step is that research, collecting information and Again, more information

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Speaker 3: you have, the more precise that theory can become. So

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Speaker 3: in this particular situation, I've got three years of history

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Speaker 3: with this deer as a three year old. He's a

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Speaker 3: real nice ten pointer. Saw him a lot while I

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Speaker 3: was hunting another deer on the property. You know, obviously

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Speaker 3: I passed him up at that time to let him

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Speaker 3: express his potential. But that's information. Knowing where that deer

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Speaker 3: was during certain times of the year, certain times of

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Speaker 3: the season, all comes into play. You go up one

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Speaker 3: more year, now he's a four year old. What are

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Speaker 3: his patterns, where his movements taking place, and where is

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Speaker 3: he at certain times of the year, And then you know,

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Speaker 3: from there we start to really drill into the specifics

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Speaker 3: of the situation. So on the research side of things,

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Speaker 3: that's where again these four key elements come in play.

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Speaker 3: And those four key elements are wind. And by wind,

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Speaker 3: I mean you know air movement in general, the wind direction.

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Speaker 3: Weather is a factor there, thermal air movement. But how

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Speaker 3: is that air flowing and how does that affect those deer.

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Speaker 3: So wind is the first one, and I would say

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Speaker 3: wind is king because that dictates so much and you

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Speaker 3: have no control over it, right, you have to obey

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Speaker 3: what the wind's doing and work with it. The second

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Speaker 3: element is pressure, and by pressure, I mean anything that

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Speaker 3: causes discomfort or puts, you know, stress on deer to

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Speaker 3: a level that alters their behavior, either long term or

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Speaker 3: short term. I have to clarify that because I'm not

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Speaker 3: talking about like barometric pressure. That's more weather related. So

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Speaker 3: pressure is the second key element. The third key element

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Speaker 3: is food. The food is what's going to define the

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Speaker 3: movement and obviously hold animals in an area, and that

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Speaker 3: alters you know, changes throughout the season as well. And

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Speaker 3: then the fourth key element, which is really the glue

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Speaker 3: that ties everything together, is the timing element. You know,

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Speaker 3: so as hunters were try to figure out where and

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Speaker 3: we're trying to figure out when, those are the biggest things.

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Speaker 3: So the where is often dictated by the combination of wind, pressure,

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Speaker 3: and food. And then the timing element is obviously the

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Speaker 3: when factor involved there. So with this deer in particular,

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Speaker 3: knowing what I knew from previous seasons and then looking

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Speaker 3: at the timing element of an early season hunt, I

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Speaker 3: actually didn't even expect that deer to be as consistent

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Speaker 3: as he was on the property early in the season.

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Speaker 3: In the years past, he'd kind of hit the food

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Speaker 3: plots a little bit. But I'm competing with four hundred

382
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Speaker 3: and fifty acres of alfalfa on this farm, and generally

383
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Speaker 3: early in the season, alfalfa wins. You know, Alfalfa is

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Speaker 3: a hugely, very very attractive, very palatable food source for deer.

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Speaker 3: So it's both an advantage and a disadvantage at the

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Speaker 3: same time, which is where I've really evolved to pay

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Speaker 3: attention to the wind more often than anything else, and

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Speaker 3: that was what I looked at, so, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of bring the story element into this scientific method. Essentially,

390
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Speaker 3: what happened was I was out in Wyoming for ten days,

391
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Speaker 3: came back, and then before well, you know, season already

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Speaker 3: started here in Wisconsin, it starts mid September. But before

393
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Speaker 3: I really got full on into white tail hunting mode,

394
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Speaker 3: I still had to wrap up some client property projects

395
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Speaker 3: excuse me, and also my own property. And one of

396
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Speaker 3: those things was spreading cereal rye on all my food plots.

397
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Speaker 3: So I was top of them with cereal rye. It's

398
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Speaker 3: a good cool season cover crop, extra food source, so

399
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Speaker 3: I'm out doing that in client properties. I ZiT by

400
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Speaker 3: our home farm. I spread ryan all those food plots there,

401
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Speaker 3: and while I'm there, I just pulled a couple of

402
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Speaker 3: cards from trail cameras. I don't run a ton of

403
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Speaker 3: cell cameras. I can't even run cell cameras in most

404
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Speaker 3: of the spots I want to anyways, because there's no

405
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Speaker 3: cell service. So I checked those cameras, and then I

406
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Speaker 3: checked one camera in particular that's actually just off the

407
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Speaker 3: access road. So this valley where I harvested this year,

408
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Speaker 3: there's two food plots, two main food plots in this valley,

409
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Speaker 3: and then the access road goes through the valley up

410
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Speaker 3: to this back ridge to you know, the back ridge

411
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Speaker 3: full of fields, egg fields, and there's one spot in

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Speaker 3: particular where the deer kind of drop off one ridge

413
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Speaker 3: and then go up on the other ridge. So I've

414
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Speaker 3: got a camera there. It's an awesome setup for a

415
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Speaker 3: camera because it tells me the human activity going up

416
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Speaker 3: and down that road, but it also monitors those deer.

417
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Speaker 3: And it's really easy to get to. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of times where I'll show up on the property and

419
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Speaker 3: I'll just drive my truck right down there. You know,

420
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Speaker 3: I take one step out the door, swap the card

421
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Speaker 3: and I'm out of there, doesn't really disturbed the deer.

422
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Speaker 3: So that camera, in combination with these two food plot cameras,

423
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Speaker 3: painted this picture for me that this deer was in

424
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Speaker 3: the area. And one photo in particular is what really

425
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Speaker 3: drew me in to actually take the steps to go

426
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Speaker 3: after this deer as early as I did, because I

427
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Speaker 3: actually only had a few pictures of him on that

428
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Speaker 3: food plot. And it's important to note, you know, I

429
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Speaker 3: talk about these trail camera rules and everything, but one

430
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Speaker 3: of my rules of trail cameras is that they only

431
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Speaker 3: tell you what's going on twenty feet in front of them, right.

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Speaker 3: My research background, we refer to that as a sampling rate.

433
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 3: So you know, I hunted that food plot two nights

434
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: before I killed that deer, and both nights I saw

435
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: you know, ten fifteen deer flowing through that area. They

436
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 3: all kind of flowed through this transition food plot and

437
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 3: then worked their way off. And that buck included one

438
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 3: night he was on that plot for over an hour.

439
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: I never had a picture on that camera any of

440
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 3: those nights, so it just kind of, you know, solidifies

441
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 3: that concept of you know, not banking too much or

442
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: relying too much on those trail cameras, but using them

443
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: to collect information to prove or disprove theories. But the

444
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: one picture in particular that really kind of triggered me

445
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: to go that route was on that road, that crossing

446
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 3: on the road between Betting areas, on these ridges, and

447
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 3: the picture was at like twelve forty pm, I believe.

448
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: So I went back and I look at the weather

449
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: history data. You know, I log all these pictures. I

450
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: just simply time and date.

451
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 2: So it's start twelve forty pm, so like middle of

452
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 2: the day, middle of the day on this ridge road.

453
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 3: Yep, correct, correct, yep. So so I start and I

454
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 3: just you know, as I'm going through my trail camera cards.

455
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: And this is one of the reasons why I'm not

456
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 3: a I'm not anti cell cams, but I'm not a huge,

457
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 3: huge propolling of cell cams. I think having a few

458
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: cell cams on the property it is kind of a

459
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 3: temperature check, is great. But I think there's this big

460
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: disconnect with the information you're getting from cell cameras, the

461
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: way you receive that information versus going out You're putting

462
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: yourself in this information collection mode and swapping a card.

463
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: You know, when you're out there you're observing. Okay, is

464
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: there any fresh sign around this camera? What's the brows

465
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 3: look like on this food plot?

466
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: Oh?

467
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 3: Wa, and they're really chewing down the food plot. You

468
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: know how many times you go out check a camera

469
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 3: and you see a row of fresh scrapes or rubs

470
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: in the area, stuff like that, and then you go

471
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 3: back and you sit down and you scroll through that

472
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: card in chronological order, and it really paints this picture

473
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: of what's happening in the area. You do that with

474
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: two or three cameras in the area, and now you

475
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: kind of get a feel like, Okay, you are kind

476
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: of moving around the property doing this or doing that,

477
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: versus a cell camera where more often than not, you know,

478
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 3: I don't want to speak to generally, but more often

479
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 3: than not, you get that cell cam pick oh big buck,

480
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: screenshot it and that's it. Like a lot of people

481
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 3: don't even look at the time and date. They're not

482
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: even storing that information, but it just doesn't really help

483
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 3: your brain process that information real Well.

484
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm beginning to feel that same way too, as

485
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: I've been looking at, you know, putting together my plans

486
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: for some deer this year, and I've just been thinking

487
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: about how it's a different it's different. I mean, you

488
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: described it right. Instead of looking things at a big picture,

489
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: you just kind of get this steady, light trickle of

490
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: information that requires a little bit different kind of work

491
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: to then create the effect that you described, which happens

492
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: naturally when you get a dump, you know, every couple

493
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: weeks or something, and you look at all of it

494
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: all right now, And it's easier to log for some

495
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: reason for me too, when you have to go through

496
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 2: that card. I've had a harder time keeping track with

497
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,239
Speaker 2: cell cameras the way I used to when I had

498
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: all my pictures actual hard copy pictures, not hard copy,

499
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: but you know, I would organize them and folders on

500
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: my computer, and now everything that lives in the cloud

501
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: and you have to do it with tags and folders

502
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: in your app, and it's different. I think you're I

503
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: think you're right. I kind of want to go back

504
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: to that somehow.

505
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, technology is great, but technology it

506
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 3: separates us from the natural connection. Right. So I'm not

507
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: here to knock trail camera companies by any means, But

508
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: the more we rely on technology, the more disconnected from

509
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 3: nature we get. And again this kind of goes back

510
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: to that primitive or innate ability to to use our

511
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: intuition to track dear. I mean, we're born to do

512
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: those things. We're born to hunt like that. So but yeah,

513
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 3: so I scroll through those cards and I'm logging information.

514
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 3: I don't I don't go crazy on details. I'm just

515
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 3: scrolling through. Okay, there's that book time date, location, time date,

516
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: location time date, location, and certain pictures will really catch

517
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 3: my eye. But a lot of times what I do

518
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: is I'll just go back and then I go I

519
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: use weather Underground, So I just go to Weather Underground

520
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 3: or just just google weather history by location, and I'm

521
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: specifically looking at the AM wind direction and the PM

522
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 3: wind direction. That AM wind direction is what's going to

523
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: place those deer in those betting areas. Right, So if

524
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 3: we just think about what we know about how mature

525
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 3: bucks like to bed, you know, it's simply put as possible,

526
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: back to cover wind at their back, right, and then

527
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 3: you know they like to have a site advantage, so

528
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 3: a little bit elevations usually a good spot, but back

529
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 3: to cover wind at their back. So in an area

530
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: with topography or you know ungulation and topography, those topographical changes.

531
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: You can a lot of times just look at the

532
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: hills and the ridges and stuff and go by process

533
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 3: of elimination. On this wind, He's probably not going to

534
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: bed here, He's probably not going to bed there. He's

535
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: probably not going to bed there. Because topography is the

536
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: greatest form of cover there is, so as long as

537
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: it provides those other survival advantages, you can really drill

538
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: in on where those deer are. And then so with

539
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 3: this particular card poll, going through those pictures and that

540
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: one picture at twelve forty PM, I was like, oh,

541
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: some you know, something had that deer on his feet,

542
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: either pressure, something bumped him, or a wind shift. So

543
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 3: I go back and look at the weather history, and

544
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 3: sure enough, the wind was out of one direction in

545
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: the morning and it changed at like eleven forty five,

546
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: and at twelve forty he moved, so he was probably

547
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: relatively close, you know, And they don't get up and

548
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: move instantly because that wind it bounces around a lot.

549
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 3: So but that drove him to change his betting location.

550
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: So then when it came to the actual hunt, I

551
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: just started drilling in, going, okay, we have a cold

552
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: front moving in, And that was really what drove it

553
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: more than anything. Right, I posted that on social media,

554
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 3: this is going to be a good hunt, and I

555
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: was thinking to myself, I like, damn, I should probably

556
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: get out there at hunt. Right, But in my brain,

557
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: you know, back to painting this picture of how I

558
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: thought my season was going to pan out. I wasn't

559
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 3: actually anticipating pursuing this buck very much until the end

560
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 3: of October early November. That's when he was more visible

561
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: on the property. But the older of deer gets, the

562
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: more predictable they are. You know, they really narrow their

563
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 3: range and if you can pick up on where they are,

564
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: they're more predictable. But then also early season, you know

565
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: that timing element. Early season, if they're not messed with,

566
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: which the pressure is pretty low, then they don't really

567
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: change their pattern a whole lot. So looking at the wind, Okay,

568
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: we've got north wind. I just started looking at the

569
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: map and going, where do I think the best food

570
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: sources are in this area. Well, I've got this one

571
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: food plot down on this bottom that's very attractive. It's

572
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: a really really good food plot, but it's really hard

573
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: to hunt. In fact, I just moved I had a

574
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: box blind over that food plot for like five years

575
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: and I just moved it to a different location because

576
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: it was an access issue. You know, there's deer on

577
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: that plot almost every night according to the camera, but

578
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 3: every time you hunt it, you don't see a deer.

579
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: So that tells me the deer know you're entering that valley,

580
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: they know how you're accessing that plot. This situation. This year,

581
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: there's a on the other side of this access roads.

582
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: This plot's literally right off this access road in the valley,

583
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: on the other side of the access roads in Aggfield.

584
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: And this year it's alfalfa, or excuse me, it's corn.

585
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: Last year was alfalfa, so it's corn. So look at

586
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 3: the map based on the wind direction forecasted going okay,

587
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: I think on that wind, if that buck is in

588
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: this valley, which it seems like he is hanging out

589
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: in this valley, he's going to bed here or here,

590
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: And both of them kind of fed into this food

591
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: plot as a setup. So the next thing is access

592
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: with that, and I'm like, well, I know I can't

593
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: come down that road and I don't have a box

594
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: blind there anymore to even hunt over this food plot.

595
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: But with that cornfield being up, I think I can

596
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 3: come in from the bottom of the valley and just

597
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: stay in the corn the whole time. Get into location

598
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: where I can see this food plot, and then I'll

599
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: just make myself a little blind and sit on the

600
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: ground in the cornfield. And ultimately that's what happened. And

601
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: then you know the other factors involved there. When we

602
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: talk about the four key elements, the second key element

603
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: being pressure, and pressure is what's going to limit potential

604
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: in every situation, right, is that stirring up deer. You know,

605
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: if there's too much pressure, they've become less predictable at

606
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 3: some level. Sometimes pressure can be a tool to really

607
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: move dear to certain areas. But the pressure concept there

608
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: or element where that deer was betted potentially betted, you know,

609
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: again backing up to this just being a theory in

610
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: my head, right where that deer was betting moving to food.

611
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: He's either going to drop down in this valley and

612
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: go to this food plot or he's going to go

613
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: up on top of the hill and hit an alfalfa field. Well,

614
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: with pressure in mind, they had just chopped the corn

615
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: off the top of that ridge, so there's contour strips,

616
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: but there's been a lot of activity up there on

617
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: top of that, we're actually we're planning to start logging

618
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 3: this chunk of woods right next to this betting area

619
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: and part of that betting area. In fact, I called

620
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: the logger on Tuesday morning. I killed that deer on

621
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: September twenty fourth, Tuesday. I called him that morning. I

622
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: was like, hey, I need one more day. It give

623
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: me one more day before you go in there. I

624
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: just need one And it worked out, obviously, But they

625
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: were in there kind of scouting out what they were

626
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: gonna do with logging, so I knew someone was in

627
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 3: there bumping around on the top of that ridge. And

628
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: when this buck was betted was kind of like second

629
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: level down there's like a little a little bowl area

630
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: with a elevated position, and then it drops down even

631
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 3: further from there into kind of a swamp. Then you

632
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: come back up the other side. That's where the food

633
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: plot is. So all those factors at play, you know again,

634
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 3: wind pressure and the food being the most attractive thing

635
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: early in the season, and that timing element was kind

636
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: of glues out all together. That's what prompted me to

637
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 3: go in after that deer and make that move.

638
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: One more question on the timing. You mentioned the cold front,

639
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: and you mentioned the daylight photo in the middle of

640
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: the day, but was that the only daylight activity you'd

641
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 2: seen with cameras for him? Had everything else been at

642
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: night there in that area.

643
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: Yes, there were a few daytime pictures again on that

644
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: road crossing so close to betting areas, and there there

645
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: might have been a couple, like really close to the

646
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: Donner Dusk on that food plot. But actually I only

647
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: had like one or two pictures of him on that

648
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: actual food plot.

649
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: Okay, but again basically sorry, the photos confirmed he's in

650
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: this valley, and then the timing of the cold front

651
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: came coming through. Said, Okay, he's in the valley based

652
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: on these photos and based on history, and now the

653
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: front is a thing that I think will shift him

654
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: to daylight and this is my window before pressure gets worse,

655
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: Which brought you down to that specific scenario.

656
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: Which, yeah, that's exactly it. That cold front is going

657
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: to promote early movement, you know, not saying he wasn't

658
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: already shown up there a little bit early every day

659
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: because again the camera doesn't show you everything. But that's

660
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: gonna increase the chances of success on that sit So

661
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: you know, ultimately that comes back to the pressure element too, right,

662
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't want to hunt that if I

663
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: think I'm going to add pressure without the opportunity of

664
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: harvesting that deer, knowing that you can only get it

665
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: in out of those spots so many times adding pressure

666
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: to it.

667
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: Right, So that brings up kind of the final situation

668
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: because you went in there, you slipped in through the corn,

669
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: you hunted your little ground blind, you made there hiding

670
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: in the standing corn on the ground, and crept me

671
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: from wrong. But I think you saw him the first

672
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 2: night and you couldn't get a shot at him, how'd

673
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: you manage to still get him killed, how'd you get

674
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: out of there without spooking him in the other deer,

675
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: and how to end up actually coming together?

676
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: So you know, this was kind of an impromptu setup,

677
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: but it's basically the same as what we're trying to

678
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: engineer on most client properties, which is good screen to

679
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: access and exit. And with the wind blowing the direction

680
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: that it was that first night he came in and actually,

681
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: you know, I couldn't one hundred percent confirm it was him,

682
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: but I could see across the swamp into the shadows

683
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: in the timber, and actually I caught my eye was

684
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 3: there's one apple tree across the swamp and a dope

685
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: popped out in the sunlight for a minute. And then

686
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: when I started glassing across there, I could see in

687
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: the shadows more deer and I could see antlers, So

688
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: there were bucks in that. And what they basically did

689
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 3: was they worked down that timber into this creek bottom

690
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 3: and they got the wind at their face, and then

691
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 3: they came up on the south end of this food plot.

692
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 3: It was a north wind, right, so they came into

693
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 3: the south end of this food plot that night. And

694
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: actually this goes into the trail camera thing too, which

695
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: is kind of a little pro tip. The first year

696
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 3: that showed up on that food plot was this smaller buck,

697
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: like a three year old nine pointer, and right away

698
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: I recognized him as kind of a running mate of

699
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 3: this this five year old buck that I was after.

700
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: So right when I saw him, I was like, okay,

701
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: maybe this buck's with him. And the tip there is

702
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: you know, again, this camera's only tell you so much,

703
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 3: but you might get pictures of that running made of

704
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: that buck, especially early in the season, right, and it's

705
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 3: you don't want to assume, but there's a good chance

706
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 3: that if he's in the area, the other bucks in

707
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: the area with him as well. So both those bucks

708
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: entered the plot, and almost simultaneously, another small buck entered

709
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 3: the plot from the north side, and pretty soon there's

710
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: some doze in the plot. And it was kind of chaotic. Actually,

711
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sitting on the ground trying not to move,

712
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: but at the same time, I really enjoyed taking video

713
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 3: and taking pictures of these deer. And actually it kind

714
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 3: of it kind of burned me because that eight pointer

715
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: or nine point, excuse me, he picked out some movement

716
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: in the corn and he was locked on to me

717
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: as I'm trying to videotape this bigger buck, and he

718
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: spooped right away, like he kind of got on alert,

719
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: and he took one step towards me, and then he

720
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: freaked out and took off running. But there's just enough

721
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: of a knoll in this food plot, and the bigger

722
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: buck was still in the south end and he was

723
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: feeding heavy. And then on the north end, the smaller buck,

724
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: this little basket eight, was just raking a tree along

725
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: the side of the plot, and that buck when he

726
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: looked up. I think he took a couple of steps forward.

727
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 3: He looked up to kind of acknowledge what just happened,

728
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: and he saw that buck making noise, and deer don't

729
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: think they react right, So he's not thinking like, oh,

730
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 3: what what spooked that deer? I should probably be on alert.

731
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, what was that noise or what was

732
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: that chaos there? Oh, it's just him. So I ended

733
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: up watching my target buck for almost an hour a

734
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 3: little actually a little over an hour, And there were

735
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: many times where I almost took a shot, but there

736
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: were long range shots, and I, you know, I just

737
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: came from out west. I shot two animals at pretty

738
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: long ranges. I shoot a lot, so I'm confident in that.

739
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: But the difference between a mule deer or even an

740
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 3: antelope and a white tail with how they react to

741
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: that arrow is completely different.

742
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: You know.

743
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: Most of the time, those western animals they just watched

744
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 3: that arrow sail until it hits them or hits the dirt.

745
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: But the white tails, they're so flighty, right, So I

746
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: was hesitant to take a shot, and I ultimately this

747
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: buck came in. He circled around. Finally, the closest he

748
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 3: got was forty six yards and he wasn't in one

749
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: of my shooting windows, so I had this little window

750
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 3: and I watched him forever, you know, and finally he

751
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: turns kind of open up that shoulders, like, okay, I

752
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 3: got to make this happen. And right when I was

753
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 3: trying to figure out how I could kind of maneuver

754
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 3: that shot, he turned and fed away. So I'm like, okay,

755
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 3: not going to force it. You know, missing a deer

756
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: is one thing, but the absolute worst feeling in the

757
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: world as a hunter, especially when you're pursuing a specific animal,

758
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: is to injure that animal and then you know you

759
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: don't find them or you just wonder how that conclusion

760
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 3: or how that results, right, So I didn't want to

761
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 3: force anything. Ultimately, he worked his way down back into

762
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: that swamp and was sparring with this younger buck, and

763
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: as the light faded, I slipped out of the corn

764
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,959
Speaker 3: while it was still light enough that I could see,

765
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: so I didn't have to use the light or anything.

766
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 3: I just got out of there. And then I actually

767
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: had the following night, I was going to go back,

768
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: but the wind was more like northeast and forecasted to

769
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: switch out of the east a little bit, and I

770
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: wasn't sure how that would happen down in that valley,

771
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: you know, if it would push my scent on that plot.

772
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 3: But I was actually like ten miles from my house,

773
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 3: all packed up, sent free shower and everything, and I'm

774
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 3: just like, no, I can't do it. So I turned

775
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: around and came back home, and then I waited. The

776
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: next night, the wind was back out of the north.

777
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,959
Speaker 3: I slipped back in there and I relocated. I moved

778
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: down about twenty yards twenty five yards closer to the

779
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: south end of that plot, thinking, these deer are going

780
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: to come in the south of the plot. Now I

781
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: know what's happening. Now I'm going to have a nice

782
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: twenty five yard shot on this deer. Well, lo and behold.

783
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: He was the first gear to enter the plot, and

784
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: he entered straight on the north end. So he cut

785
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: straight across the swamp and actually he went straight to

786
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: this apple tree on the north end, barely touched the plot,

787
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: and they disappeared for a while. For like an hour,

788
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 3: I couldn't see him. So I'm waiting and waiting and waiting,

789
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: and when the other deer started to show up, they

790
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: all came in the south end of the plot, and

791
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: they all did what they did the night before. For

792
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 3: the most part, they just kind of feed slowly across

793
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 3: the plot, never really stopping for too long, just feed, feed,

794
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 3: feed back into the swamp up into the woods, and

795
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 3: what I assume they're doing is kind of transitioning from there.

796
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 3: Maybe they're hitting some a corns and then they're ending

797
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 3: up on those bigger destination food sources on top of

798
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: the hill that those alfalfa fields. But I'm watching these

799
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 3: dos and I was actually videotaping this group of dose

800
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: that were walking by me like twelve yards away, you know.

801
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 3: So it's an intense moment already, but it's it's fun

802
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 3: and exciting because your eye level with these deer in

803
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: the open air, and I'm kind of panning sideways, and

804
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I look over. There he is, and

805
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: he's feeding towards me into one of my shooting lanes.

806
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 3: I couldn't see him unless I leaned forward a little bit,

807
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 3: but there he was, and you know, I videotaped him

808
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: for a little bit and then he started to turn

809
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: broadside into that shooting lane. I'll say, okay, I gotta

810
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: I gotta make this happen now. Ultimately, I shot him

811
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: at forty five yards. If I would have been in

812
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 3: the original blind location, I would have had a twenty

813
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: five yard shot. But that's just the way it works out.

814
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible. Looked like a one heck of a buck.

815
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: So congratulations, thank you, thank you.

816
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was like I said he was. He was

817
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: only dear. I was going after this year. So I

818
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: try to pick one target, and I think he can

819
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: learn a lot more when you focus on one deer. Obviously,

820
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: if another mature buck shows up, I'm going to take

821
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,959
Speaker 3: advantage the opportunity. But yeah, thank you. So what would

822
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: have happened?

823
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: Kind of going back to like the scientific approach or

824
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: scientific method approach, can you can you kind of imagine

825
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: how you might have taken that approach forward if you

826
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: didn't kill him on that night. So you go out there,

827
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: let's say you see him again but no shot, and

828
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: let me take the back. Let's say you don't see

829
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: him that night. I'm curious about that. And now we're

830
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: moving through September and October is either arriving or soon

831
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 2: to be. And now you're, you know, having to continue

832
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: hunting this year. But using that kind of approach, can

833
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: you just kind of walk me through some hypotheticals of

834
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: how that might have looked as we moved into and

835
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 2: throughout the month of October. Yeah.

836
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: So when I when I apply that scientific approach, I

837
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: generally try to have a couple different plans in place.

838
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 3: You know, again theories. You put these theories in place,

839
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: and then you build a plan around that theory. So

840
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: that was that was plan number one, was if there's

841
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: an early season opportunity to try to capitalize on it. Again,

842
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: knowing that mature bucks generally don't go far early season

843
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 3: if they're not disturbed and there's more predictable movement there.

844
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: Had I not seen that buck that night or not

845
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 3: been able to connect with him within the next couple

846
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: of weeks, that cornfield's coming off, so I'm going to

847
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: lose the ability to even hunt that food plot from

848
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 3: there on out. Addition to that, like I said, we're

849
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 3: starting to log We already started logging that betting area.

850
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: So my game plan from that point was to work

851
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 3: with them on the logging project, do some TSI right away,

852
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: and ultimately hope that it doesn't disturb that deer too

853
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 3: much to where after the logging's done, you know, they're

854
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 3: going to be in and out of there in ten

855
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: days or so, and it's going to produce a lot

856
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 3: of good cover. You know, they're logging these trees with

857
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: all the leaves around, so it puts really good cover

858
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: and pretty good woody brows on the ground instantly for

859
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: those deer, And from my experience, it doesn't really affect

860
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: the overall movement of those deer too much. They don't

861
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: generally go too far, you know, assuming that they have

862
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: some other safe places in the general location where they can,

863
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: you know, just go hang out there and come back.

864
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: So the game plan was ultimately to kill him on

865
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 3: top of that hill. There's a little bit of a

866
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: saddle there between a betting area or a couple of

867
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 3: different betting areas, and then it feeds into those egg

868
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: fields on top. And I've had a lot of good

869
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: success up there in the past, good and count I

870
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: should say, I've killed a couple deer there, but one

871
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 3: deer there, I should say, because I've only I've never

872
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,959
Speaker 3: killed two deer in the same spot on our farm. Ever.

873
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of good encounters, but it's always

874
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes it's moving fifty yards, but never from

875
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: the same location. And a lot of that again is

876
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: I just don't have a ton of these tailored setups.

877
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: All that's changed in the last couple of years. I

878
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 3: finally have my dad on board for a management plan.

879
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: I finally have these seventeen other hunters on board to

880
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: help out and work with me on these things. So

881
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: things are improving in that front. But my second plan,

882
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 3: or Plan B, was working off of this theory based

883
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 3: on historical information, based on past experiences with this specific deer,

884
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 3: that he was going to be betting in that general

885
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: area and working through that pinch point on top of

886
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 3: that hill. There's a couple dough betting areas closer to

887
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 3: the food source, and as the rut progresses, you know,

888
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 3: we get into October here and those deers shift into

889
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 3: their fall pattern. He became a lot more consistent in

890
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 3: that area, and then once rut hit, he was up

891
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 3: there quite a bit. So then just comes down to

892
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 3: again the timing, because the access up there is hard.

893
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 3: You have to cross this destination food source, so getting in,

894
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 3: you know, is kind of iffy, but getting out it's

895
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: even worse. Because if you're trying to cross that destination

896
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: food source in the dark, you're blowing deer off there,

897
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 3: so you only get one or two good sits up there,

898
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 3: and then your chances of success go down. So that

899
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: was kind of the secondary plan with that theory. Now

900
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: last year I had the same exact approach, and you

901
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: can kind of summarize that and how that panned out

902
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 3: again utilizing the four key elements this scientific method or

903
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 3: scientific approach to come up with a game plan. My

904
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 3: initial plan for my target buck last year was early

905
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: season again, same thing. Okay, I know knew where he

906
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 3: was early season. He was actually hanging out and fairly

907
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: visible from the farm itself. I've got some younger nephews.

908
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 3: My older sister works on the farm, so my nephews

909
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: are on the farm quite a bit in the summer.

910
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 3: They're glass in these fields at night. For me, they're

911
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 3: all starting to hunt out too, so they're on board,

912
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 3: and it's really fun to get more people involved in it. Right.

913
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 3: But they had this deer I don't want to say pattern,

914
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 3: but they were seeing this deer and then they'd let

915
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: me know, and then you know, you had trail cameras

916
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: on top of that. So I had a really good

917
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 3: plan early season, but the timing of the cold front

918
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: early season last year didn't work out. My wife usually

919
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: has one or two work trips this time of year,

920
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: and she just happened to be gone, so I couldn't

921
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: be gone. That property is like an hour or twenty

922
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: minute drive from my house to hunt, so you know,

923
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 3: it's not like I can zip there, hunt and pick

924
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 3: up the kids from school, so I had to kind

925
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: of nix my early season plan. My secondary plan was

926
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 3: a dough betting area that I knew that this buck

927
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: spent some time in in the early stages of the rut,

928
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: like late October timeframe, So I had put a cell

929
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 3: camera on a community scrape just off the edge of

930
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: this dough betting area. I put that cell camera there

931
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 3: in like August, and all the way through August, all

932
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 3: the way through September, all that was on that scrape

933
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: were doze as anticipated, and then all of a sudden,

934
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 3: it was like October twenty third or twenty fourth, there

935
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: was twelve bucks on that camera. In one day, one

936
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: twenty four hour period, there was twelve different bucks on

937
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: that camera, and one of them was my target buck.

938
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 3: So the next day it actually there's rain in the forecast.

939
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 3: But you know, I got to take advantage of that

940
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 3: information when you can, So I slipped into that edge

941
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 3: of that betting area. I didn't have a stand placed already,

942
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: because I like to be flexible, you know, so I

943
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 3: can hunt that betting location, or not specifically in the

944
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 3: betting area, but downwind to the betting area, right, I

945
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 3: could hunt that a few different locations. And that's why

946
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: I like to just go in mobile so that I

947
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: can set up according to the wind. So I went

948
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: in there in the rain, hung the set, sat all

949
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: day and at the very first light I had a

950
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: couple does come into there, and I swore that I

951
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: heard this like nasally grunt, But you know, in your mind,

952
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, was it a grunt? Was it two

953
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: trees rubbing on one another? And as it turned out,

954
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: it was a good sit. All day, I saw a

955
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 3: handful of bucks, had a couple come in bed down

956
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 3: near me, watch these doughs. But the last hour of

957
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: daylight I looked over, in fact, the trail that I

958
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: came in on, there was a really fresh scrape. I

959
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: looked over and that buck that I was after was

960
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 3: bedded in that scrape like fifty yards away from me.

961
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: So I think he came in at first light and

962
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: he betted down, and then he repositioned himself at one

963
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: point and betted down again, and I wasn't able to

964
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 3: get a shot. You know. I threw some grunts at him.

965
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: He eventually got up, and basically all he did is

966
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 3: he tried to work around and catch my wind. And

967
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 3: there's a cornfield on the ridge above me. And as

968
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 3: soon as he cut into that cornfield, I got down

969
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 3: from the stand and I got out of there. Because

970
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 3: the way the wind was blowing that day, he would

971
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: have had to go about one hundred more yards and

972
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: he would have caught my wind, and that could have

973
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: screwed up the whole situation. It was already getting too

974
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 3: dark to where you know, probably wasn't gonna happen. So

975
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: I just got out of there right away. Fast forward

976
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 3: a little bit again, coming up with a new theory. Okay,

977
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: So now plan A and Plan B didn't work. I'm like, Okay,

978
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: I know this deer is in the area, but I

979
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: also know that there's three fall turkey hunters and four

980
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: bow hunters that are going to be showing up to

981
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 3: hunt this property in the next couple of weeks. And

982
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: the real kicker is the hunting cabin on our property

983
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 3: is right at the bottom of the hill from this

984
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 3: bedding area. It's like the best deer hunting valley on

985
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 3: the farm, worst spot you could put a hunting cabin,

986
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 3: but it's you know, it's very scenic, I guess, right.

987
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: But I knew that the pressure was going to increase

988
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 3: exponentially within the coming weeks, so I had had to

989
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 3: keep that in the back of my mind. So I

990
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: hunted kind of the fringes of that area a couple

991
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: more times, and and one day I went back to

992
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: the edge of that bedding area and on my way in,

993
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 3: I bumped that deer. You know, at the time, I

994
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 3: wasn't a hundred percent sure it was him, but I

995
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 3: cut through that cornfield and was not anticipating deer being

996
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 3: that close to betting an hour before daylight. And when

997
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 3: I stepped out of that cornfield, the woods just came alive.

998
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: Deer were running everywhere, and you know, I bumped them

999
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 3: fast enough and hard enough that they didn't really know

1000
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 3: what was going on. They just freaked out. Who out

1001
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 3: of there, and when they took off running, there was

1002
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 3: like that stereotypical like grunting chasing sound and that nasally

1003
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 3: grunt again. So I'm like, oh, it's got to be him.

1004
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 3: So I hunted that spot in the morning, and then

1005
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: the wind picked up as the day went on, and

1006
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: then I dropped down in the afternoon. I just got

1007
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: that stand. I dropped down in the bottom of the valley.

1008
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: I had a food plot there with the box plant.

1009
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 3: I slipped in that blind, and sure enough that buck

1010
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: popped out on that food plot at like three o'clock

1011
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 3: in the afternoon, but he kept on looking back in

1012
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 3: the woods like he had a dough with him. I

1013
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: had a decoy out and everything he wouldn't commit. It's

1014
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: got some really cool footage of him. It was a

1015
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: great encounter. But that was that. And then after that

1016
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 3: the pressure increased in that valley and things got more

1017
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 3: and more chaotic. So I was getting pictures of him,

1018
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: but I couldn't figure out where he was hanging out,

1019
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: and he wasn't showing up on food sources consistently, at

1020
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: least not on the camera. So again I was hunting

1021
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: the fringes, trying to play it safe, pressure wise, just

1022
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 3: trying to collect more intel to lead me to a

1023
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: theory that I could be more aggressive with, and ultimately

1024
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 3: what it came to down I was talking to my

1025
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 3: cousin the night before this all played out, and you know,

1026
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: this kind of goes back to being able to explain

1027
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 3: this approach. So over the past decade or so, there's

1028
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: been some tension in our family, you know, in the

1029
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 3: hunting side of things, like me being more successful than

1030
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: most of them but putting in a lot more time,

1031
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 3: and ultimately just trying to get them to understand, like

1032
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: if we work together on this, we're all going to

1033
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 3: be more successful. And you know, I was always like

1034
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 3: the young kid following them around in the woods. I'm

1035
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: like one of the youngest cousins in the group, So

1036
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: I was a kid following around with a stick when

1037
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: they were all hunting. So then when I've evolved to like,

1038
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: you know, more serious hunter, like trying to tell them

1039
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 3: like how we should approach things that you know, at

1040
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: first there's like no, no, no, you listened here, right, Yeah,

1041
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 3: But last year I think was a huge turning point

1042
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 3: in that relationship or all of those relationships in general.

1043
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 3: First and foremost they started to understand, like, you know

1044
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: this work. I'm doing this for everyone, and I finally

1045
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: just like, you guys, go hunt these spots, go hunt

1046
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 3: these blinds. As long as you're hunting them on the

1047
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 3: correct wind, you're gonna have opportunities. And they did, and

1048
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: they start having some really good sits. But the bigger

1049
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: thing was explaining the decisions that I was making in

1050
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 3: real time to these cousins. In years past, I would

1051
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 3: try to avoid them. They'd be down hunting mostly weekends.

1052
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 3: I'd hunt during the week just to try to avoid

1053
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 3: the situation. But last year I tried to make a

1054
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 3: conscious effort to at least overlap a couple days. I'm

1055
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 3: trying to time it on the days I think our

1056
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 3: best for the win that I need the cold fronts

1057
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: and everything, but I try to overlap those days and

1058
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: kind of bring them into the whole situation. So the

1059
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 3: night before I ultimately harvested this year, I was talking

1060
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 3: to my cousin. I was just like, you know, it's

1061
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 3: the weekend before rifle season, so for us, for me personally,

1062
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: that's like go time, Like that's when I get as

1063
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 3: aggressive as I'll ever get because once rifle season hits.

1064
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: There's seventeen gun hunters on this property, everybody in the area.

1065
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it's very much like Michigan, right, you know

1066
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: the infamous pressure in Michigan. All of our neighbors are Amish,

1067
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 3: all of them. So the woods, you know, the Orange Army, right,

1068
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 3: it's a thing. Right. So talking to my cousin, No,

1069
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: this is mid November. November eleventh would have been the

1070
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 3: evening that we had this conversation. November twelfth. That's what

1071
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 3: I harvested this deer. So I was talking to my cousin,

1072
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 3: you know, I basically said, this deer is showing up

1073
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: on cameras in the same area I was hunting him in.

1074
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 3: But he's showing up like an hour after dark or

1075
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: half hour after dark. And I had sat nine all

1076
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 3: day sits on the fringes of these betting areas, these

1077
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 3: dough betting areas, anticipating him showing up there, bumping does

1078
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 3: or being with these dos and moving in and out

1079
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 3: of these betting areas at dawn of dusk, and purely

1080
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: sitting there all day because I was afraid to get

1081
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: down mid morning and put pressure on these betting areas

1082
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 3: and screw things up. Right. I told my cousin, I said,

1083
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 3: my theory is that this buck is betting in this

1084
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 3: other bedding area. There's a on the other side of

1085
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 3: the ridge. There's a real tight draw. This valley tightens up,

1086
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: and actually half of the valley is open MFL so

1087
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 3: it's public land and there's a ton of people hunting it,

1088
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 3: and then the other half of the valley's in the pasture,

1089
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: so it's not There's not a lot of great cover there,

1090
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 3: but topography itself creates this nice little bowl in there

1091
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: that's impossible to hunt. And I knew this because I've

1092
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 3: tried to pursue bucks in there the last few years.

1093
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 3: I find these mature bucks spending time in this area,

1094
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 3: and I try and set up in there on all

1095
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 3: different wind directions, and I'd always get busted the dose.

1096
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: The first doze that came through their bust me. I'd

1097
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 3: just pulled the set and get out of there to

1098
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 3: try not to disturb the area. So I told my cousin,

1099
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 3: you know, my theory is this buck, because of the

1100
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: pressure across the farm, he's betting in this tight little bowl,

1101
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: and then right at dark he's just popping out of

1102
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 3: that chunk of woods, and he's crossing the wide open

1103
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: field and he's making the rounds and doing his thing

1104
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 3: at night. And the forecasted wind was supposed to be

1105
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 3: out of the south pushing right up that valley the

1106
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 3: next morning. But it was supposed to be like fifteen

1107
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 3: to twenty mile an hour winds and gusts of like

1108
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 3: thirty miles an hour, and it was supposed to be warm.

1109
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 3: It was going to warm up. So I told him,

1110
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,479
Speaker 3: you go hunt your stand. He's got his favorite stand

1111
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 3: at the bottom end of this valley, and I'm going

1112
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 3: to still hunt through this betting area in the morning

1113
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: and just try and figure out what's going on. My

1114
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 3: first game, or my first goal or objective was to

1115
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 3: see if that deer was in there, if there's fresh

1116
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 3: sign in that area, and then you know, again try

1117
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: to come up with a plan on how to set

1118
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 3: up on him and hunt him, you know, one or

1119
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 3: two more days this week before gun season hit the

1120
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 3: following weekend. My secondary goal, or you know, like the

1121
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 3: optimistic side of things, I was like, maybe I'll just

1122
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 3: come across this deer. I'll just get it done right.

1123
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 3: So I told him, like, you go hunt that sand

1124
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 3: end of the valley because if I bump this deer,

1125
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,479
Speaker 3: he's going to run into the wind, and you're gonna

1126
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: be in a perfect situation to get a shot at

1127
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: this deer. And long story short, I slipped it in

1128
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 3: that betting area and just kind of still hunted my

1129
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 3: way in. From first light, I saw a deer bedded

1130
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 3: behind a log about eighty yards out, and I relocated,

1131
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 3: got a better advantage point glass for a little bit,

1132
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 3: and lo and behold it was the buck that I

1133
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: was after, and took me four hours, four hours and

1134
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes actual to get into position. But I shot

1135
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 3: him in his bed at thirty seven yards after four hours.

1136
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 3: So but again, you know, the stock side of things

1137
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: seems crazy. You know, I never never would have anticipated

1138
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 3: stalking a mature white tail in our area, especially or

1139
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 3: shooting him in his bed. But that part, you know,

1140
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 3: hunting out west, I've kind of fine tuned that I'm not,

1141
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 3: by any means like an expert stalker compared to a

1142
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: lot of those guys. Right, But I've screwed up a

1143
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: lot of stalks, a lot of stocks, And every single

1144
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 3: time he screw up a stock, it's because he either

1145
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 3: didn't pay attention to the wind, or he moved too fast.

1146
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 3: It's usually because he moved too fast. And in my mind,

1147
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: I was just like, it's you and me. I've got

1148
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: all day. You know, best case scenario, you stay there

1149
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 3: and I get into position, I have control. Second best

1150
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: case scenario is you stand up and relocate and give

1151
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 3: me the opportunity. But as I'm playing through these scenarios,

1152
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, every one of these shot opportunities is

1153
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 3: going to be like a fifty yard shot from this location,

1154
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 3: trying to range him through the brush, pick a spot,

1155
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 3: set a pin, and you know it would have been

1156
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 3: a rodeo. So it all worked out that way. But ultimately,

1157
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 3: again using that scientific approach to come up with a

1158
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,959
Speaker 3: theory based on those four key elements is what took

1159
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 3: me to that spot. And the one in a million

1160
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 3: shot was me getting to advantage point to see that

1161
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: deer without him knowing I was there. And I think, actually,

1162
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: you know, when I dial that back, when I relocated

1163
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 3: to that secondary location, that buck had his head looking

1164
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: straight away from me. His attention was drawn down the

1165
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: valley and I basically saw him. I sat down, like

1166
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 3: hunkered down behind this tree, pulled out my camera and

1167
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 3: this other buck came up from the bottom of the valley,

1168
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 3: so he was drawn to that other buck coming towards him.

1169
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 3: And then after that he really settled in and went

1170
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 3: back to like you know, high alert. It's it's hard.

1171
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 3: You can get really close to deer when they're moving

1172
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: if you're you know, quiet and sneaky, but when they're

1173
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 3: stationary and they're like so in tune with their environment,

1174
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 3: it's it's tricky. So I think that was really the

1175
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 3: one of a million chants there, but you'll ultimately just

1176
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:05,919
Speaker 3: finding them where they are.

1177
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: So so a big part of this approach, it seems like,

1178
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: is you know, to get to the point where you

1179
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: have a theory, and to get to the point where

1180
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: you can run these experiments which are a fancy word

1181
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 2: for saying hunts or scouting trips where you test a

1182
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: theory by observing. Right, you have to input like all

1183
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 2: this data and something you've talked about it, and then

1184
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: also from just other things I've seen and read from

1185
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 2: you and heard from you. You take your data collection

1186
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: to a different level than a lot of people. And

1187
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: I've heard you talk about how you can't hunt them

1188
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: where they were. You have to hunt them where they

1189
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: will be. So it's all about anticipating where he's going

1190
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: to be, which you did in that case, like you

1191
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: thought he was going to be in that area because

1192
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: of you know that data you collected and these theories

1193
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: you've tested in other places that proved to be false.

1194
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: You can you just tell me a little bit more

1195
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: about the kind of data that you're collecting. We've talked

1196
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 2: about cameras a little bit, but I know you do

1197
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: something like food source tracking, you do pressure audits on stands,

1198
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 2: You track a lot of different things which are a

1199
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: little bit different than other people. And you've got this

1200
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: planner that you develop and that you use yourself that

1201
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: you're tracking a lot of these things we've talked about

1202
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 2: and more that is pretty extensive, and I think that's

1203
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,959
Speaker 2: an important thing as we as we're into the season now,

1204
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 2: I imagine all of us could probably do a better

1205
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 2: job of tracking everything that's going on, because it's one

1206
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: thing to have these ideas, these theories to go do

1207
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: this stuff, but most of us throw something at the wall,

1208
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 2: We throw a hunt at the wall, and then we say, oh,

1209
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: it didn't go well, or hey, it went well, great,

1210
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: and then we're onto the next one. We could probably

1211
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: benefit more if we were actually tracking it so we

1212
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 2: can look back on this stuff a year after year

1213
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: or in more detail throughout a year. Can you just

1214
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 2: expand on how you do that, why you do that

1215
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: in some of these specifics.

1216
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the planner you spoke about, I refer to

1217
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 3: as Annual Success Planner, And ultimately, you know, there's nothing

1218
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: in there that's that crazy or proprietary, but it's a

1219
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 3: way to kind of formulate a thought or collect that

1220
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 3: data and then help you formulate the thought or those theories.

1221
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 3: It all revolves an almost four key elements, so it

1222
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 3: lays out, you know, the initial concept of these four

1223
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 3: key elements, and then each one of those elements has

1224
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: an associated chart or table tool in there, and and

1225
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 3: what it does is it allows you to collect information

1226
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 3: directly related to those elements and then it helps you

1227
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 3: put together that theory. So, for example, with the wind,

1228
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: I have a tool and that I refer to as

1229
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: pattern tractor, and that's I was talking about earlier, where

1230
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 3: I'm logging time and date location of these animals and

1231
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 3: ultimately looking back at the wind direction so that it

1232
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: can tell me, you know, where I think those deer

1233
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 3: are going to be and that helps me anticipate, you know,

1234
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 3: when I'm looking ahead, if I'm gonna you know, whether

1235
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: I'm a weekend warrior just working off of the opportunities

1236
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 3: I have, or trying to predict where to be at

1237
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 3: the best time. I'm using that wind as such a

1238
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 3: valuable tool. The other tool and there is the pressure tracker.

1239
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 3: So I do a couple of those things, like you

1240
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 3: said the pressure audit. Like if I'm if I'm setting

1241
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: up a property for a client or we're on a

1242
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 3: coaching call, one of the things that we do is

1243
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 3: a stand location pressure audit, where we look at stand locations,

1244
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 3: either current or potential stand locations, and rank them based

1245
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 3: on the amount of pressure that they put on the property.

1246
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 3: And simply put, we just want to get a temperature

1247
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 3: check for how hunting that stand is going to affect

1248
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 3: us down to downstream. Right. So one of the things,

1249
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 3: a good example would be like the set up where

1250
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 3: I killed that buck early season, if I would have

1251
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 3: had a box blind there and a field of switch

1252
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 3: grass or some pine trees or low and behold and

1253
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 3: mascant this or you know, sorgum, whatever I had for

1254
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 3: a screen to get to and from that blind that

1255
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 3: would have been pretty good access. That would have been

1256
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 3: a low numbered stand, that would have been a one

1257
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: or a two, depending on the situation. That's a stand

1258
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 3: location I can hunt a lot of different winds, especially

1259
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 3: being a box blind that contains your scent so well.

1260
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 3: You don't have that open air pushing your scent all

1261
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 3: over the valley, so I can hunt that a lot. Inversely,

1262
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 3: we'd have a higher numbered stand, like on the fringe

1263
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 3: of one of those betting areas, where if you're gonna

1264
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 3: hunt that stand, you should really only hunt it if

1265
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 3: you have the intel that supports the decision to move

1266
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 3: in there, knowing that it's it's potentially high reward but

1267
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 3: also very high risk. You can only hunt that spot

1268
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 3: one or two times, and then you're probably gonna screw

1269
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 3: up that spot. And if you're hunting a small property,

1270
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 3: you might burn out your whole entire property by hunting

1271
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 3: that location. So I was keep that in mind. But

1272
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 3: the tool that's in the planner, you can list all

1273
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 3: your stand locations and rank them, But the tool that's

1274
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 3: in there for tracking pressure. Ultimately, I'm either taking note

1275
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 3: from again observations in the field or what I see

1276
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 3: on trail cameras. But I'm trying to log activity that

1277
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 3: I see that might put pressure on deer. Most of

1278
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 3: it's human activity because there's so much other pressure.

1279
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 2: You know.

1280
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 3: I talk about how environmental pressures affect deer, biological pressures

1281
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 3: affect deer, herd, social pressure, number of dos, and the

1282
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 3: property effects deer, but ultimately the human pressure is the

1283
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 3: most trackable side of things. So when I see the

1284
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 3: neighbor out there again, either visually or the trail camera,

1285
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: If I see the neighbor out fixing fences, or you know,

1286
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: one of our neighbors runs beef cattle, one of the

1287
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 3: Amish neighbors runs sheep. You know, they're always out there

1288
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 3: doing stuff on the fences and stuff. If I know

1289
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 3: that neighbors in the area, I simply log that time

1290
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 3: and date in the general location, and then a lot

1291
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 3: of times I can go back and I can can

1292
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 3: cross reference that pattern page again. When I see those

1293
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 3: anomalies or those one off pictures in the middle of

1294
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,959
Speaker 3: the day, why was that deer moving through that area

1295
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 3: at this time? What promoted that movement? Okay, it was pressure, Well,

1296
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 3: then I drill that or I dial back a little

1297
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: bit further and I go, okay, well, if he was

1298
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 3: in this area, you know, and looking at the wind

1299
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 3: history that day, yeah, okay, the wind was out of

1300
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 3: this direction, that would have potentially placed him in this

1301
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 3: betting area. But then this guy came through here and

1302
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 3: bumped him out. Now I can kind of prove that theory.

1303
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 3: So it all goes back to helping prove or disprove

1304
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 3: these theories I have on where they're betting, where they're feeding,

1305
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 3: how they're moving. The food source tracker, that one's a

1306
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 3: little bit trickier it. You know, you can get as

1307
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 3: detailed as you want with something like that. I don't

1308
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 3: go out some properties. I will, but I don't go

1309
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: out and go so far as to like log every

1310
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 3: single acorn producing tree, you know, every oak out there,

1311
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 3: every white oak versus red oak, all those things. But

1312
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 3: I will log years where there's a very noticeable acorn

1313
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: crop versus years that there's not, and then I can

1314
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: look back on like that, I'd be like, Okay, this

1315
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 3: year there wasn't very good acorn crop, and it's pretty

1316
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 3: obviously deer were hammering these food plots this year. You know,

1317
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 3: lfalfa is a big one. I talked about A big

1318
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 3: thing with alfalfa that I've noticed over the last decade

1319
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 3: is the first year that alfalfa's planted, it's the most attractive.

1320
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 3: You know, they're gonna eat that alfalfa all the time.

1321
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 3: But a new seting field is night and day different

1322
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: from a stand of alfalfa that's two or three years old.

1323
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 3: And the second year it's still pretty attractive, but less

1324
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 3: attractive than the first year. And every year that goes by,

1325
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 3: it's less and less attractive. And I've seen, you know,

1326
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 3: a new seating in alfalfa. You can't outcompete that with

1327
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 3: most food plots, But second year alfalfa, I can out

1328
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 3: compete that with a lot of my food plots, especially

1329
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 3: when I'm using that bioegg fertilizer. That mineralized fertilizer really

1330
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 3: seems to increase the palatability and nutrient content of those plots,

1331
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 3: and those deer are really drawn to it. So that's

1332
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 3: a big one. But as far as food source tracker goes,

1333
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 3: you know, it's a lot of it's just keeping record.

1334
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 3: So that again, and like every year that comes around,

1335
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 3: you're trying to predict that movement ultimately driven by food.

1336
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 3: You can look at what those food sources are and

1337
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 3: what they were and if they've changed. Because the more

1338
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: consistent these elements become year to year to year, and

1339
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 3: if I'm tracking a specific year year to year to

1340
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 3: year and those elements are the same, then I can

1341
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 3: anticipate him following a similar pattern historically, you know. And

1342
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 3: that's where that timing element comes in, where short term

1343
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 3: timing and again pattern tracker comes into play there and

1344
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 3: just tracking these deer over the years, but short term

1345
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 3: timing we're looking at wind and weather long term or

1346
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, the annual scale, we're looking at that historical data.

1347
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 3: And I think it was I don't know if it

1348
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 3: was at MSU or University of Tennessee. They had a

1349
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: really good I think they did a podcast on it,

1350
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 3: but they had a really good research article talking about

1351
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 3: the specific gene that's linked to the time period that

1352
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 3: does come into estrus. So they been able to track

1353
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: that to genetics. And it makes perfect sense because you know,

1354
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: it's influenced on a big, you know, big big timeline environmentally,

1355
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 3: but it's it's passed on genetically to the offspring of

1356
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 3: those dough so you know, deer in northern climates they

1357
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 3: the ruts later because if that dough gets bred too early,

1358
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 3: then that fawn is born too early. A late snowfall

1359
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 3: reduces the survivability of that dough. So just in time evolution,

1360
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 3: these deer have this genetic code that they pass on

1361
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 3: that says we're going to come into heat around this time.

1362
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 3: And it can fluctuate, you know, a couple of weeks

1363
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 3: on a property and I see that, you know, one

1364
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 3: corner of our farm every year around Halloween it's the

1365
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 3: hot spot to be. Go over the ridge it's November fourth,

1366
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 3: you know, go down the valley it's November tenth, or

1367
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 3: whatever it might be. So when I look back at

1368
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 3: the historical information, whether it's a specific buck showing up

1369
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 3: in a certain area, you know, that's something this podcast

1370
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 3: comes out. Everyone should be anticipating the October shift, and

1371
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 3: if you don't have a game plan right now. Usually

1372
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 3: I see that shift happen between like the seventh the

1373
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 3: fourteenth here in southwestern Wisconsin. But if you don't have

1374
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 3: a game plan right now, and I've had years like

1375
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 3: that where I had no deer on my radar and

1376
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 3: I just went back I go through my historical data

1377
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 3: the last couple of years certain areas, and when we're

1378
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 3: the mature bucks starting to show up on camera in

1379
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 3: these areas, and that's when I start, you know, that's

1380
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 3: what kind of directs me towards narrowing down my focus

1381
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 3: and trying to zone in or hone in on that

1382
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 3: information specific to that area of the farm. But it's

1383
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 3: very predictable, and I'm sure you've probably talked about before

1384
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 3: people will understand. You know, you see these bucks show

1385
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 3: up on your property the same three to five day

1386
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 3: window every year. Sometimes they're there, you know, all fall,

1387
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 3: they shift at a certain time, and sometimes they're literally

1388
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 3: only there for a week and then they're gone. So

1389
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 3: you know, that's a good way to anticipate and plan

1390
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 3: out your rut caation if you have, you know, a

1391
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 3: finite amount of opportunities to attack.

1392
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,479
Speaker 2: So a lot of that, a lot of that data,

1393
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 2: some of at least some of this, like you know,

1394
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 2: specific deer behavior data that you're talking about logging and

1395
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 2: looking at the wind and the weather conditions and everything

1396
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 2: that's trail camera related in addition to observations. You mentioned

1397
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 2: something earlier that I just wanted to make sure I

1398
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 2: asked you about which is some trail camera rules. Can

1399
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 2: you walk me through what your trail camera rules are,

1400
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 2: because if we're trying to collect data with trailcms, we

1401
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 2: got to be using in the right way. I'd love

1402
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts on that.

1403
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, to preface this a little bit,

1404
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 3: I spent ten years working for a trail camera company, right,

1405
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 3: So I went to college for wildlife biology, and you know,

1406
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 3: my goal was to be a wildlife biologist or researcher,

1407
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,679
Speaker 3: and then this weird turn of events, I actually worked

1408
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 3: for a trail camera company, so I was helping these

1409
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 3: researchers on the technology side. So I've put together, you know,

1410
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 3: five rules or considerations for trail camera success based on

1411
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 3: my experience working myself, you know, the research background, but

1412
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: also working with hundreds of thousands of customers over the years.

1413
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 3: So it is you hit the nail on the head.

1414
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 3: It's it's absolutely critical to understand these things to use

1415
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 3: these trail cameras the right way, you know, and not

1416
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 3: saying there's not other ways to utilize them, but if

1417
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 3: you follow these rules, you'll have significantly higher levels of

1418
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,839
Speaker 3: success with the information that you collect for these cameras.

1419
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 3: So those five rules are five considerations. The first one

1420
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 3: is a trail camera only tells you where he should

1421
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 3: have been, not where he should be, and a cell

1422
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 3: camera just tells you where he should have been a

1423
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 3: lot sooner. Now, there's situations where if you're planning ahead,

1424
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 3: you know, that's ultimately what you want to do with

1425
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 3: these cameras again, is use them to prove or disprove theories.

1426
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 3: But if you're planning ahead, and you know, like the

1427
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 3: dough betting area thing from last year, once I got

1428
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 3: intel on that camera that bucks were in the area,

1429
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: I was going to make a move. And that's that's

1430
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 3: the closest I've ever come to killing a deer directly

1431
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 3: based on cell camera data. But usually what I'm doing

1432
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 3: with just these trail cameras is using them to collect

1433
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 3: historical data. And a lot of times, you know, I

1434
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 3: have cameras across the farm that I don't even check

1435
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 3: most of the year. And we'll get to that here

1436
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 3: in a second with these other rules, But the cameras

1437
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 3: tell you where he should have been, not where he

1438
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 3: should be, So use them to anticipate that movement and

1439
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,919
Speaker 3: prove these theories, and then when the when the elements,

1440
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 3: those four key elements kind of come into play again

1441
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,640
Speaker 3: or you know, those variables are coming into play or anticipated,

1442
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 3: like the forecast, the wind, the food sources are the same,

1443
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 3: you know, the pressure is the same. That's when you

1444
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 3: can move on those. So it's it's really important to

1445
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 3: understand that, or else you're just always going to be

1446
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 3: a step behind. The second one, which we talked about already,

1447
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 3: is that trail cameras only tell you what's going on

1448
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 3: directly in front of them, right, so it's only giving

1449
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 3: you a sampling rate. And you know, again, look at

1450
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 3: the running mates of these bucks early in the season.

1451
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 3: Just use them to get a feel for deer activity

1452
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 3: in general. But don't one hundred percent rely on that

1453
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 3: camera to tell you if that deer is in the area.

1454
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 3: If you get one picture of that deer, there's really

1455
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 3: good chance that he's probably been in that area quite

1456
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 3: a bit and or at least a fair amount, right,

1457
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 3: you know, And depending on the timing of that picture,

1458
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: it might might dictate how often he's there. But you know,

1459
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 3: a big thing people need to consider, especially with mature books,

1460
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 3: is they're very tactful with their movements, right, they don't

1461
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 3: use the same trail every day. They might say they

1462
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 3: might use the same travel corridor, but most of the time,

1463
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 3: when they get up from their bed and they're moving

1464
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 3: to a food source, they're browsing along the way, right,

1465
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 3: they're trying to take advantage of that route. So if

1466
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 3: they follow the same trail every day, there's not going

1467
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 3: to be browse on that trail every day. And also,

1468
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 3: you know, maybe they stay in a little bit thicker

1469
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: cover than what the younger deer do, So that's an

1470
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 3: important thing to note too, But they only tell you

1471
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 3: what's going on directly in front of them. The third thing,

1472
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 3: and arguably one of the most important things here, is

1473
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,719
Speaker 3: to be intentional with your trail camera setups. You know, again,

1474
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 3: use them when you go out and put that camera out,

1475
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 3: or you're checking that camera or you know, looking at

1476
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 3: it on your cell phone, think about the location of

1477
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 3: that camera and how that plays into this whole system.

1478
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 3: You know, you're using it to prove a theory. So

1479
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 3: is that deer showing up on this food source, is

1480
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: that deer using this adjacent bedding area, or you know,

1481
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 3: maybe it is just purely inventory, But inventory is only

1482
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 3: going to tell you that that deer is in the area.

1483
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 3: It's not going to tell you, oh, I need to

1484
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 3: hunt this mineral lick or this corn pile that this

1485
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 3: deer showed up on in August, right, It's not going

1486
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 3: to tell you where to hunt in October or November.

1487
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 3: So be intentional with those setups. The fourth one is

1488
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 3: to understand the pressure trail cameras put on mature books

1489
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 3: and try to avoid it. And that's where it kind

1490
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 3: of comes back to the second rule of I'm only

1491
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 3: telling you what's going on directly in front of them.

1492
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 3: These bucks they know that these cameras are there a

1493
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 3: lot of times, you know, so I always try to

1494
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 3: put the camera as high as I can reach angle

1495
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 3: it down. There's limitations to that because when you place

1496
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 3: it high and angle it down, you trigger range or

1497
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 3: your target range is shortened quite a bit. You know,

1498
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 3: if it's low looking out across an open area, you're

1499
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 3: going to trigger way out. But most of the time

1500
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 3: you have a very specific target area, whether it's a scrape,

1501
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 3: a mock scrape, a water hole, you know, a specific

1502
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 3: trail or something, so you can get away with raising

1503
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 3: that camera up and pointing it a really well defined air,

1504
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 3: and that kind of goes hand in hand with the

1505
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 3: setup itself and try to keep pressure off. What I've

1506
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 3: seen over the years is you could put cameras low

1507
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 3: on food plots, you know. I think that's where you

1508
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,879
Speaker 3: can get away with like a pick and stick type setup.

1509
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 3: You can put them lower on food plots where those

1510
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 3: deer can see that foreign object from a distance and

1511
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 3: then they get to choose if they want to approach

1512
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 3: it or not. Versus in the woods where you know

1513
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 3: they're kind of going down that trail milling along, maybe

1514
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 3: they work that scrape and also they picked their head

1515
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 3: up and boom, there's this thing there that they haven't seen. Yeah,

1516
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 3: and it freaks them out. And that analogy that I

1517
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 3: always used when I worked for the trail camera company

1518
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 3: when people will be like, oh, I thought this was

1519
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 3: supposed to be a covert camera. These deer are clearly

1520
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 3: looking at it like if I went in your house

1521
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 3: and I put a can of beer on your nightstand

1522
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 3: and you came home, You're going to notice it and

1523
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 3: it's going to make you feel really uneasy that someone

1524
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 3: was in your house.

1525
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 2: Right.

1526
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 3: It's no different with those mature bucks you put foreign

1527
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 3: object there in the woods. It surprises them, they notice it.

1528
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 3: They're not necessarily going to vacate the area, but they're

1529
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 3: to avoid that trail. And a lot of times, you know, again,

1530
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 3: if you're not following these rules, a lot of times

1531
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 3: I can really throw you off on your intel or

1532
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 3: trying to create these theories. Oh that buck was on camera,

1533
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 3: I'll fall and now I haven't had any pictures though

1534
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 3: he's clearly gone. Well he might be he maybe he shifted,

1535
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 3: but I've seen it time and time again where I'm

1536
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 3: in the woods hunting, I can see the trail camera

1537
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 3: and the adjacent pinch point, and that buck comes up

1538
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 3: and he goes around behind that camera, skirts it by

1539
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 3: twenty yards back on the trail, just completely avoids it.

1540
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 3: So that's a big one. And then the last one

1541
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 3: is simply just sorry.

1542
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna pause you before you give me the last one,

1543
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 2: because I've got one foll up to that. Given your

1544
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 2: experience working for a trail camera company for a decade,

1545
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 2: and i don't know if this came up or not

1546
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 2: during your time frame or not, but I'm starting to

1547
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 2: hear people questioning if cell cameras are spooking deer in

1548
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 2: a different way than standard ones did. Like, is this

1549
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: signal that's beaming up into the sky from a cell

1550
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 2: camera in some way being detected by dear? Have you

1551
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,760
Speaker 2: heard anything about that? Have you seen anything to that? Is?

1552
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 2: Is that crazy hogwasher something?

1553
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 3: I think that it's plausible. I really do, actually funny

1554
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 3: story on that, So not to get too crazy far

1555
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 3: out there, but so I worked for this trail camera company,

1556
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 3: uh Raconics trail Cameras. I worked for Iconics, and I

1557
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 3: did most of the testing and development and all the

1558
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 3: prototyping on the cameras, and then I ran the whole

1559
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 3: customer service department. And one of my actually one of

1560
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 3: my favorite customers over the years was this absolutely brilliant

1561
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 3: human being, brilliant, like on the spectrum, a brilliant human being,

1562
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 3: incredibly smart. But he was part of the Bigfoot research organization, Okay,

1563
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: And I wanted to preface that because you know, it's

1564
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 3: easy to be like bigfoot hunter. You know, actually we

1565
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 3: want to refer to them as researchers. They always appreciate that.

1566
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,600
Speaker 3: But the reason I appreciated this guy so much was

1567
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 3: one again, he was just brilliant and He actually dropped

1568
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 3: out of the organization when it started to get more

1569
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: popular with all the shows and stuff on Discovery Channel

1570
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 3: because he didn't want that hype. He was convinced that

1571
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 3: he was going to find these cryptic animals, and he

1572
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 3: was using trail cameras heavily for that. That's how I

1573
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 3: got connected with him. But he built his own high

1574
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 3: frequency noise test chamber because he was convinced that they

1575
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 3: weren't getting high quality pictures of Bigfoot because the sasquatch

1576
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 3: could hear these high frequency noises emitted from electronics. And

1577
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 3: he sent me all the test files and it was

1578
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,600
Speaker 3: pretty crazy. Some of these cameras, and you know, we

1579
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 3: don't need to go in the details on them. And

1580
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: this was years before cell cameras were really a thing.

1581
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,680
Speaker 3: But some of these cameras made zero noise until they

1582
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 3: were triggered, and then there'd just be this insane high

1583
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: frequency squeal. And some cameras had like a constant little

1584
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 3: squal and then when they took pictures, it was insane

1585
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 3: like the noise.

1586
01:16:58,120 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 2: You know.

1587
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 3: So we think about like high frequency noise, you know,

1588
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 3: like a dog whistle, right, it's at a frequency that

1589
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 3: humans can't really hear, but dogs can hear it. So

1590
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 3: to think that wild animals can hear these noises that

1591
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 3: we can't hear is very very plausible. And a cell

1592
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 3: camera where it has a radio that's constantly connecting, you know,

1593
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 3: however many times a second. You know, just like your

1594
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 3: cell phone and cameras are a little bit less because

1595
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 3: they don't have to be you know, on point all

1596
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 3: the time. But that concept there of those radios communicating

1597
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 3: all the time, it's very very possible that they're emitting

1598
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 3: high frequency noise that animals can pick up on. And

1599
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 3: you know, not to go crazy down that rabbit hole.

1600
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 3: But I've had some really good hunts. I've killed so

1601
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 3: of my biggest deer on days where I didn't take

1602
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 3: my cell phone with me. You know, there was one

1603
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 3: night you can see over my shoulder here this two

1604
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 3: hundred inchure, my first two hundred inch I killed. They're

1605
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 3: technically one hundred ninety seven inch. That night, I was

1606
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,719
Speaker 3: like stressed out with work. I got to my truck

1607
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:58,560
Speaker 3: and I've just shut my phone off and left it

1608
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 3: in the truck and I went out out there, had

1609
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 3: gotten the stand and I killed that deer, you know,

1610
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 3: it could have just been coincidence. But you know, I

1611
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 3: think cell phones in general kind of affect us either

1612
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 3: from distractions or potentially noise. But but the camera thing,

1613
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 3: I think is very plausible because the electronics in those

1614
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 3: trail cameras are obviously not as advanced. You know, it's

1615
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 3: a lot of the same chips and everything, but they're

1616
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 3: not the same as like your cell phone camera, right.

1617
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 3: A lot of them are bigger, clunkier, lower cost components.

1618
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,080
Speaker 3: They're bigger, you know, some of these inductors and capacitors

1619
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 3: in these circuits that are charging up and dumping all

1620
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 3: this energy and stuff. They're probably not fine tuned to

1621
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 3: be as efficient in general. But overall that concept and

1622
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 3: knowing that there there are you know, significant high frequency

1623
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 3: noises emitted from these electronics, from that researcher's results and

1624
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 3: testing them, it's very very plausible, very plausible. And I've

1625
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 3: had situations actually this year over here, the year before

1626
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 3: I killed him, I had a camera on the back

1627
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,799
Speaker 3: end of our farm and it was a cell camera.

1628
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 3: It was up in the tree and this like back

1629
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 3: corner of the field where the deer kind of cut

1630
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 3: this corner, you know, between two betting areas was also

1631
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 3: a food source. It was a good hybrid type setup,

1632
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 3: but it was up in the tree high enough where

1633
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 3: I had to drive my ATV up to it and

1634
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 3: stand on the handlebars to reach the camera. So ten

1635
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 3: plus feet up in the air, in the middle of

1636
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 3: a snowstorm, the middle of a snowstorm, that deer came

1637
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 3: across that field and his eyes went straight up to

1638
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 3: that camera and he turned around and ran off. So

1639
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 3: you can't tell me that he saw the flash or

1640
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 3: heard a click or anything. In that snowstorm, something drew

1641
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 3: his attention to that camera.

1642
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 2: You know.

1643
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 3: Again, maybe it was a coincidence. I don't know, but

1644
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 3: I think that is a very plausible theory that cell

1645
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 3: cams affect deer. And I think it's you know, for

1646
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 3: any anyone out there who wants to argue at the point.

1647
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 3: I think it's very similar to like the white flash

1648
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 3: systems on cameras where some guys were like, oh, white flash,

1649
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 3: don't spook deer, or even just you know again, general

1650
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 3: camera set up. You know, some people put their cameras

1651
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 3: low all the time, never really affects their deer. Every

1652
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 3: deer is going to be different. Every property is going

1653
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 3: to be different. Every area is going to be different.

1654
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 3: But in general, I think that it's very, very plausible.

1655
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:14,799
Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing to keep track of. I guess

1656
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 2: if on the theory of tracking things, that's one thing

1657
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 2: that I think, you know, we just need to keep

1658
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 2: tabs on it and kind of see if that means

1659
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 2: we need to adjust in any kind of way. But

1660
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 2: you had one more trail camera.

1661
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the last trail camera rule is pretty straightforward and simple.

1662
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 3: It is just simply to put high value on that

1663
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 3: information right and catalog it. You talked about earlier, cataloging

1664
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,759
Speaker 3: and folders and saving it. I cannot stress the importance

1665
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 3: of that. Even if you are running cell cameras, and

1666
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:45,760
Speaker 3: most guys, I shouldn't say most guys, but a lot

1667
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 3: of guys nowadays are running all cell cameras. Try to

1668
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 3: get in the habit at the end of the season

1669
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 3: to swap that card, dump that car on your computer,

1670
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 3: catalog it by location, because then next year it's way

1671
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 3: easier to go back on your computer and scroll through

1672
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 3: those pictures. Then try to scroll through that app and

1673
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 3: find you know, a little tiny thumbnail or something, or

1674
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 3: you know, even better yet is go through those pictures

1675
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 3: and catalog the information. Whether you're using a planner like

1676
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 3: this or you know what Xcel spreadsheet or whatever it

1677
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 3: might be, but catalog the important information there and save

1678
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 3: that because that historical data is so important and it

1679
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 3: really will help you anticipate, even if it's a completely

1680
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 3: different deer that you're pursuing. That historical data is going

1681
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 3: to help you kind of reveal those trends and prove

1682
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 3: those theories.

1683
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, there's there's a few more things I

1684
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 2: want to make sure we hit on before we go.

1685
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 2: But we're also I've been keeping here a long time,

1686
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 2: so I want to kind of move a little more.

1687
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: I want to say, like rapid fire, but like we're

1688
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 2: going to shift the tempo up just a little bit

1689
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 2: so we can cover a handful more things. One thing

1690
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 2: really quick, I've heard you talk about playing defense for

1691
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,679
Speaker 2: Big Bucks, and this is a kind of a similar

1692
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 2: concept to something that came up last week. So I

1693
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 2: just want to get your thoughts on that real quick.

1694
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 2: What do you mean by playing defense and why is

1695
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:57,839
Speaker 2: that important?

1696
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, playing defense? You know, this kind of goes back

1697
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 3: to that pressure thing. And at the time we're recording this,

1698
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 3: this next weekend is the youth hunt. And that's when

1699
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 3: I talk about it a lot, because you know, maybe

1700
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 3: it's little different this ye because I'm actually taking my

1701
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 3: son out on the youth hunt, so I want my

1702
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 3: neighbors to not play defense. But ultimately, you know, if

1703
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 3: we're trying to harvest mature deer, we have to have

1704
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 3: mature deer to begin with. So this comes into play

1705
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 3: whether you're pursuing a specific deer or you're trying to

1706
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 3: grow or increase the age class or age structure of

1707
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:30,160
Speaker 3: deer on your property. But it ultimately goes back to

1708
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 3: that pressure thing. You don't want to push deer off

1709
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 3: your property. You don't want to disturb those deer. You

1710
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,560
Speaker 3: want to make sure that when you're hunting, you're utilizing

1711
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 3: the high quality sits versus just getting out there to

1712
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 3: get out there. And that's where having a easy access stand.

1713
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,839
Speaker 3: Whether it's box blind or just a non invasive location

1714
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 3: where maybe you do only have a couple of days

1715
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 3: to hunt. Okay, go hunt that, but don't go into

1716
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 3: the depths of your property unless you have a good plan.

1717
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 3: And back to the wind element and again the pressure.

1718
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 3: Understand that if you bump deer they're going to run

1719
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 3: into the wind, and they almost always run into the wind,

1720
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 3: and then they're going to go to the next best cover,

1721
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,599
Speaker 3: depending on how hard they're bumped or what the quality

1722
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 3: of that cover is. You know, they might just go

1723
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:12,879
Speaker 3: to the other side of the valley on your property,

1724
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 3: or they might vacate your property altogether. Then they end

1725
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 3: up on the neighbor's property and some kid that's you know,

1726
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:20,759
Speaker 3: never step foot in the woods goes out and shoots

1727
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 3: a giant buck, which you know, that's great, but I

1728
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 3: think that they should earn it right, So that's a

1729
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 3: big thing. But also again, like you put in all

1730
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 3: his time and effort and work on your property or

1731
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 3: just the time that goes into pursuing these deer, you

1732
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 3: want to take smart or make smart moves when you

1733
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 3: pursue them so that you don't bump them off your

1734
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 3: property because once they're dead, they're dead, right then there's

1735
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 3: no opportunity. So that's what I always mean by playing

1736
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 3: defense in that situation.

1737
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the wind thing and how oftentimes they'll

1738
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 2: escape into the wind. I guess using that to tell

1739
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 2: where safety is. And you mentioned earlier, you know, when

1740
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 2: you were discussing the wind is king that all things

1741
01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 2: being equal, when possible, a buck is going to bet

1742
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 2: with the wind to his back so he can smell

1743
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 2: what he can't see. But what about when they travel?

1744
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 2: This is one of those things that a lot of people

1745
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 2: talk about. Some people will say, man, bucks will almost

1746
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 2: always travel with the wind to their advantage in some way.

1747
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 2: Other people will say, geez, I've seen deer walking with

1748
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:17,719
Speaker 2: the wind at the back plenty of times, and there's

1749
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 2: no way they could go around all the time through

1750
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 2: their daily life. So the wind in their favorite because

1751
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 2: they'd walk in circles half the time, or whatever it is.

1752
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 2: What's your take on that? Real quick?

1753
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think i've kind of dialed this in. Actually

1754
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 3: this year confirmed it for me, and I've heard all

1755
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 3: the same things that you just said. I think bucks

1756
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 3: specifically will travel with the wind at their back if

1757
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 3: they're in cover, and that's a big thing, you know.

1758
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 3: I've talked to guys and I've seen it myself. A

1759
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,000
Speaker 3: buck walking through tall grass through a swamp bottom traveling

1760
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 3: with the wind at their back. I think that's actually

1761
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 3: advantageous for them. Right, they can't see a whole lot,

1762
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 3: but they can smell what's coming from behind them, and

1763
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 3: they're moving forward, then they have a little bit of

1764
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:01,679
Speaker 3: advantage there. They really in there's a direct relationship between

1765
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,600
Speaker 3: how deer used the wind and the pressure on the

1766
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 3: property or in the surrounding area. So the higher the

1767
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 3: pressure is, the more they're going to use the wind.

1768
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:08,719
Speaker 2: Bar none.

1769
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 3: But what I saw the other night, that first night

1770
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 3: that I saw that my target buck was they came

1771
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 3: from cover of betting and the wind was ultimately at

1772
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 3: their back. I guess I can't one hundred percent confirm

1773
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 3: that because across the valley maybe the wind was swirling

1774
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 3: a little bit more over there, But just looking at

1775
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 3: a map and drawing some lines, the wind would have

1776
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 3: been at their back. But they maintained cover the whole

1777
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:32,760
Speaker 3: time they dropped down on this creek bottom, and then

1778
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 3: they approached the food source with the wind at their face.

1779
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 3: So I think if you're hunting a food source or

1780
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 3: the fringes of a dough betting area during the rut,

1781
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 3: in a food source during the rut is a really

1782
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 3: good spot to hunt too. I would stay on the

1783
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 3: down wind side of it, or anticipate movement from the

1784
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,679
Speaker 3: downwind side, because whether that buck's approaching that food source

1785
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 3: to feed and anticipating, you know, the potential of an

1786
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 3: ambush from a predator. Or he's approaching that food source

1787
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,600
Speaker 3: to pick up a cent trail from a dough and

1788
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,759
Speaker 3: follow her back to a bedding area. He's gonna follow,

1789
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 3: he's gonna get down wind of it. So I think

1790
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 3: that's a big thing there.

1791
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. We've talked a lot

1792
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 2: about the four key elements. We've talked about building this

1793
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:29,800
Speaker 2: data source to then inform you of where the right

1794
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:32,320
Speaker 2: places are to be. We've talked about being careful with

1795
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 2: your sits and playing defense, but really key thing and

1796
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 2: all that, and one of the things you mentioned as

1797
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:39,799
Speaker 2: kind of the glue to this whole thing is the timing.

1798
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,879
Speaker 2: So when to take your shots, when to make your plunge,

1799
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 2: when to get aggressive, when to sit that best spot

1800
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 2: or that spot you've been waiting and waiting and waiting for.

1801
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 2: You touched on in your hunt earlier this year that

1802
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 2: the cold front was the trigger for you. But there's

1803
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other kind of variables that different

1804
01:26:57,040 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 2: people really assign a lot of value to when it

1805
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 2: comes to timing their hunts. Can you run me through

1806
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 2: really quick the most important variables you look at from

1807
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 2: a weather perspective, you know, whether it be precipitation or temperature,

1808
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:14,280
Speaker 2: or barometric pressure, or wind or moon. Those are things

1809
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 2: that some people have got strong opinions on. Would love

1810
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 2: to hear yours real quick.

1811
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't track the moon very much. You know.

1812
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 3: I'll look at that, and you know the same thing.

1813
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 3: You know, Mercury is really good talking about that stuff

1814
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 3: and how they anticipate, you know, before a full moon,

1815
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 3: after full moon, what that's going to do for feeding patterns,

1816
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,559
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So I'll take it into consideration if

1817
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 3: it if I'm building a theory, you know, again, it's

1818
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 3: more information that's either going to lend to that theory

1819
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 3: and give me more precise information. But for the most part,

1820
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't invest a ton in that. I

1821
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 3: don't invest a ton in the in the red moon

1822
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 3: or anything like that. I mostly look at the weather

1823
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 3: and the wind, specifically the wind direction and temperature changes.

1824
01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 3: So I really really really like to hone in on

1825
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:08,600
Speaker 3: wind direction changes. I've killed my biggest deer on wind changes.

1826
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 3: You know, whether that wind changed midday and I went

1827
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 3: out that afternoon or that wind changed overnight and moved

1828
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 3: them to a new area, and then I went out

1829
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 3: and hunted them. But I really try to dial in

1830
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:21,560
Speaker 3: on that, and more often than not, when there's a

1831
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 3: wind change, there's a temp change. You know, it either

1832
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,880
Speaker 3: maybe it flips and it warms up, but a lot

1833
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 3: of times it flips and it cools down. Now, when

1834
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:32,679
Speaker 3: it comes to cold fronts in general, I think, honestly,

1835
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,759
Speaker 3: I think that those are harder to really be super

1836
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,680
Speaker 3: precise with. You know, some cold fronts, like last night,

1837
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 3: we had a cold front move through here, but it

1838
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 3: wasn't really that good of a night for movement. You know,

1839
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 3: I talked to a lot of guys that were oute.

1840
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 3: I've got a handful of cell cams out on food

1841
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 3: sources right now, and there really wasn't much movement. I

1842
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 3: would anticipate tonight that there's more movement, and that's a

1843
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 3: lot of times what I'll see is especially like as

1844
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 3: we progress into the fall and we get like real

1845
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 3: cold fronts, you know where it goes from fifty degrees

1846
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 3: to twenty eight degrees and a little bit of snow.

1847
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 3: A lot of times that first day of that cold front.

1848
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 3: The deer just shut right down, they don't move, and

1849
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 3: then the next day they start moving a lot. More So,

1850
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 3: to answer your question, I try to just collect as

1851
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 3: much information as possible, and I start with the wind,

1852
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,679
Speaker 3: but most of the time I'm looking at that timing element.

1853
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 3: So again, and I think this is probably gonna be

1854
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 3: the most helpful for anyone listening to this, try to

1855
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 3: hone in on your timing in general. You know, we're

1856
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 3: already getting past the early season by the time this

1857
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:35,040
Speaker 3: podcast drops, I would say we're already out of early season,

1858
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 3: not saying that there's not some early season stuff still trickling.

1859
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 3: And you know, I've seen bucks pretty consistent on food

1860
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 3: plots patternable into mid October before. But for the most part,

1861
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 3: think timing, think ahead, and i'd be looking at historical information.

1862
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 3: Where are those doughs, And if you don't have this

1863
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 3: data yet, start tracking your does, start following those doughs,

1864
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 3: and try to figure out where those doughs are spending

1865
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 3: their time, because obviously the bucks are going to start

1866
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 3: showing up there. But once I drill in on my timing,

1867
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,240
Speaker 3: so say I've got this three to five day window

1868
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 3: that I'm trying to target in you know, whenever it is.

1869
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 3: It could be early October, could be late October, early November.

1870
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out the timing there and then

1871
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 3: ultimately I'm looking at my setup. Right. So one thing

1872
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 3: that we didn't really touch on earlier is that, you

1873
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 3: know the second half of my holistic approach, and just

1874
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 3: to kind of hit that on a high level quick,

1875
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:26,400
Speaker 3: what I what I do is, you know, I refer

1876
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 3: to it as holistic hunting land management. So we in

1877
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 3: the first podcast we talked about the habitat itself, but

1878
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,839
Speaker 3: it's I think it's important to talk about the setups

1879
01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 3: and the systems on property. So from a holistic standpoint,

1880
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 3: what I'm always doing is I'm looking at the properties

1881
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 3: and how that property functions as a system as a whole, right,

1882
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,880
Speaker 3: you know, again, habitat is a big part of that,

1883
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 3: but specifically talking about the hunting side of things, how

1884
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 3: does that property function as a system where dear betting,

1885
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 3: how are they moving, where are they feeding? And then

1886
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 3: I you know, we dial back a little bit on

1887
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 3: that and how does that property fit into a bigger

1888
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 3: system on the landscape, especially if you have a small

1889
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 3: property and even our farm you know, IVE got fifteen

1890
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 3: hundred acre farm. One of the big advantages I always

1891
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 3: had was it's broken up. It's connected, but it's broken

1892
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 3: up by topography so much so that it almost hunts

1893
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 3: like four different properties. And those deer, you know, they

1894
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 3: might spend a lot of time on our farm, but

1895
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 3: it's only a small amount of their actual range, and

1896
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 3: whether they're not on our farm, we don't know where

1897
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,519
Speaker 3: they are. So it's part of a much bigger system.

1898
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 3: So kind of anticipating and understanding that, but more importantly

1899
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 3: than anything else is to drill in to see how

1900
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,679
Speaker 3: the property is made up of these smaller systems or setups,

1901
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 3: and that's a big one. So we talk about timing,

1902
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 3: and I've got my time frame kind of narrowed in. Okay,

1903
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:43,439
Speaker 3: I really need to focus on this time frame, whether

1904
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 3: it's the ideal time frame or I need to schedule

1905
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 3: a week off of work period. Right. I haven't had

1906
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 3: to deal with that for a while now because I

1907
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:55,080
Speaker 3: make my own schedule. But for a long time it

1908
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I got to put in a notice

1909
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:58,640
Speaker 3: a month or two in advance of when I'm going

1910
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 3: to be gone from work. Looking at that historical information

1911
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 3: drilling in that timing, and then within that timing, I'm

1912
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 3: looking at my specific setups. Where is that buck going

1913
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 3: to be, where do I anticipate him going to be,

1914
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 3: and what wind direction do I need to hunt that setup? Now,

1915
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 3: not specifically the safe wind to you know, this is

1916
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 3: obviously important, but I think that's one oh one level

1917
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 3: of like how do I get in and out of

1918
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 3: there and hunt it without deer busting me? More importantly

1919
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 3: is what wind is going to place that buck in

1920
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,839
Speaker 3: that betting area or that adjacent betting area that feeds

1921
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 3: that setup. You know, so simple at setup possible, right,

1922
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:37,679
Speaker 3: just think food, where they're going to end up betting,

1923
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 3: where they're coming from. If it's an afternoon setup or

1924
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 3: you know, inverse of that in the morning, and a

1925
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 3: pinch point in between. You know, it could be a

1926
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 3: lot of different types of pitch points. But that's a

1927
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 3: setup at a high level. So what is the wind

1928
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 3: that I need to hunt that? And if I'm looking

1929
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,640
Speaker 3: at that time frame and I plan that out now

1930
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 3: I'm looking at that and I might get screwed and

1931
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 3: oh the wind's out of the same direction the whole week,

1932
01:32:58,320 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 3: Well then I'm just going to hunt it the best

1933
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 3: I can, but it's not really putting me in a

1934
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,760
Speaker 3: position where I'm I have the highest donds possible. But

1935
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 3: if there's some fluctuation in the wind that week, and

1936
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 3: I know the wind, that's gonna again have the wind

1937
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 3: at that bucks back in that betting area, or it's

1938
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,840
Speaker 3: a betting area where he's gonna cruise down window to

1939
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 3: pick up do set. I'm gonna stay out of that

1940
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:19,559
Speaker 3: setup until that wind is perfect for that situation. I'm

1941
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 3: gonna hunt the fringe. You know. Maybe I'll just sit

1942
01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 3: in the truck and glass a field that night, you know,

1943
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 3: rather than adding pressure to that location. But I think

1944
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 3: that's probably the most important element there again, the wind

1945
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:31,639
Speaker 3: in combination with the timing.

1946
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what you just described I think is going

1947
01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 2: to greatly apply to my final set of questions here,

1948
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:45,639
Speaker 2: but maybe not. Let's imagine you're sitting at the diner

1949
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 2: or the bar or something with a really good deer hunter,

1950
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 2: like he or she has killed good mature bucks, let's

1951
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 2: say every other year for a decent amount of time. Now,

1952
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 2: so I've done this pretty well, but they're also hard

1953
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 2: charging driven want to get better. You know, every other

1954
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 2: year is not good enough. I should be getting it

1955
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:08,120
Speaker 2: done every single year. So that person is sitting with

1956
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:11,400
Speaker 2: you at the table, and you've got five minutes to

1957
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:15,800
Speaker 2: tell them one thing that would help them take that

1958
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 2: final next step for the late October time period, and

1959
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 2: then one piece of advice for like peak run, because

1960
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 2: those are maybe the two windows where most people think

1961
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 2: they've got their best chance, right that late October window, Man,

1962
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,559
Speaker 2: there's this great opportunity to still have a pattern on

1963
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 2: a deer that big boy might be getting on his feet,

1964
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 2: So that's a special window. And then there's that special

1965
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 2: window when everything's just on their feet. Can you give

1966
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 2: me that one advanced idea for each of those windows

1967
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 2: for that person?

1968
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 3: I think that's that's probably a tough, tough answer, you know,

1969
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 3: without having background info on that specific person, because I

1970
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 3: might tell them something they'd be like, yeah, dude, I

1971
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 3: already know that, right. I will say that the bulk

1972
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 3: of the clients that I do virtual coaching with are

1973
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:03,040
Speaker 3: those people. They're they're pretty successful hunters in general, but

1974
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 3: they're trying to take it to the next level. And

1975
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 3: I think that it's exactly what I just said on

1976
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,360
Speaker 3: that wind direction thing. You know, I've consulted on some

1977
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,880
Speaker 3: properties with some pretty successful hunters, some fairly big names

1978
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 3: in the industry, business owners within the outdoor industry. You know,

1979
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:21,559
Speaker 3: they've killed a lot of good deer over the years,

1980
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 3: a lot of great deer over the years. But it

1981
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,160
Speaker 3: comes back to that wind thing. And you know, again,

1982
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 3: I could explain this to one guy like, yeah, I

1983
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,599
Speaker 3: already know that, but looking at the wind and how

1984
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 3: it places those deer is such an important things, so important,

1985
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 3: you know, I think all too often we just look

1986
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 3: at simply that's a stand I can hunt on this

1987
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 3: wind direction, but it's not necessarily going to put that

1988
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,439
Speaker 3: buck in the area because of that wind direction. You know,

1989
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 3: in combination of where they bed and also how they travel.

1990
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 3: You know, those bucks really want to travel on that

1991
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 3: leeward side of the hill, the down wind side of

1992
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 3: the hill more often than not, not saying they won't

1993
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:57,080
Speaker 3: travel on the other side, but they usually are going

1994
01:35:57,160 --> 01:35:58,760
Speaker 3: to spend most of their time on the down wind

1995
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 3: side of the hill when they're traveling. If you have

1996
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:03,880
Speaker 3: topography or just in general, you know, I say the

1997
01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 3: hill a lot or topography. Topography is the greatest form

1998
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 3: of cover. Just think of topography as cover, plain and simple.

1999
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 3: It's cover without food value, and that's all it is.

2000
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 3: So if you're hunting flat land in Iowa or Illinois

2001
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 3: or something, those bucks are going to travel more on

2002
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 3: the down wind side of the cover while still maintaining cover.

2003
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,759
Speaker 3: So having those buffer areas or transition areas is important.

2004
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 3: But I'm sure you talk about all the time the

2005
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 3: hard edges and different edges and stuff. Right, they're going

2006
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 3: to follow that edge on the down wind side. But

2007
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 3: I think it's the most important thing to consider there

2008
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:38,960
Speaker 3: is that wind element in general, and most of the

2009
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:42,000
Speaker 3: properties that I'm on they have one or two really

2010
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 3: good stands. You know, maybe there's some that are not

2011
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 3: in the best locations to hunt and wind swirls or

2012
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,759
Speaker 3: it's just not great. But more often than not, guys

2013
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,800
Speaker 3: have stands in pretty good locations. They just hunt them

2014
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 3: on the wrong wind directions or they access them the

2015
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 3: wrong way. So understanding the wind and how it places

2016
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 3: those deer is one going to give you a huge

2017
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:02,599
Speaker 3: advantage in anticipating when to hunt that location, but it's

2018
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:04,639
Speaker 3: also going to give you an advantage of how to access

2019
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 3: that right. So just trying to avoid a potential betting area,

2020
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 3: so your sense not pushed into that to access that

2021
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 3: stand is obviously what's going to create the opportunity. Because

2022
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 3: if you blow them out of there or just alert them, right,

2023
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 3: I've seen this time and time again, where dose deer

2024
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:20,760
Speaker 3: know you're there, it doesn't necessarily mean they're blown out

2025
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:24,640
Speaker 3: of the country, right because most areas it's deer are

2026
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:26,920
Speaker 3: going to see, smell, or hear people on a daily basis.

2027
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean they're running all the time, but they're

2028
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 3: simply not going to move towards the direction of a

2029
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:31,840
Speaker 3: potential threat.

2030
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right. If folks, which I think many

2031
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 2: folks have enjoyed this, If folks enjoy this and want

2032
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:42,320
Speaker 2: more of what you have to offer, whether it be

2033
01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 2: your videos or your consulting or the planner you mentioned

2034
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:48,879
Speaker 2: or anything like that, where should folks go to connect

2035
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 2: with you and your work?

2036
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 3: Yep? So the Untamed Ambition dot com is my website

2037
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:57,680
Speaker 3: and you can click on white Tail Ambition there or

2038
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 3: untamed Ambition dot com slash white tail ambit. That's where

2039
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:02,960
Speaker 3: you're going to find all the white Tail related stuff.

2040
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 3: I offer a handful of different services on there, a

2041
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:08,400
Speaker 3: lot of online stuff you know, especially this time of year,

2042
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:11,720
Speaker 3: people trying to get you know, a more one on

2043
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:14,879
Speaker 3: one look at their situation. One of the most popular

2044
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:17,680
Speaker 3: services I offer this time of year specifically is what

2045
01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 3: I call the Golden Hour. It's a one hour consultation.

2046
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 3: It's going to give you access to kind of like

2047
01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:24,799
Speaker 3: a little mini course talking more about the scientific approach

2048
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 3: and now we sit down and we break down your

2049
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 3: situation and talk about all these concepts and how it applies,

2050
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 3: and that a lot of times will will be all

2051
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:36,520
Speaker 3: all most guys need, just kind of shift their perspective

2052
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 3: and get them going to where they're collecting information that

2053
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 3: they can build off of and you know, again start

2054
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:46,479
Speaker 3: putting together these theories. The other thing actually pretty exciting

2055
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 3: from my position is I'm actually working with the white

2056
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:52,839
Speaker 3: tail Master Academy now. So if you go to whitetail

2057
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:55,880
Speaker 3: masteracademy dot com and actually it gave me a code

2058
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 3: so you can get twenty dollars off WA for white

2059
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 3: tail Ambition WA white tail Master Academy. There's gonna be

2060
01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 3: a lot more detailed videos coming out on my approach,

2061
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:09,519
Speaker 3: which you know, white tail Master Academy's got a lot

2062
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 3: of great videos Bobby Kendall's on there. He's got a

2063
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:14,719
Speaker 3: lot of great videos with land plans. Don Higgins obviously

2064
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:16,840
Speaker 3: he's got all his land plans and stuff on there.

2065
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 3: I think what I offer is probably a little bit

2066
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 3: different from those guys, where mine's again trying to address

2067
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:29,439
Speaker 3: more common scenarios where you have less control or limited control,

2068
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:31,680
Speaker 3: trying to make the most of the situation. So you

2069
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:33,360
Speaker 3: can go there, sign up for that. You can get

2070
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 3: access to all those videos and all this stuff I'm

2071
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 3: talking about, and use that code w A twenty on there. Otherwise,

2072
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 3: social media, the Untamed Ambition and White Tail Ambition. Again,

2073
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 3: white the Untamed Ambition is my primary business. White Tail

2074
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 3: Ambition is kind of the coaching division specifically for white tails.

2075
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,400
Speaker 3: But you can find me on social media Instagram the

2076
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,320
Speaker 3: Untamed Ambition, and then on YouTube the Untamed Ambition.

2077
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,679
Speaker 2: All right, perfect, well, Thomas, this is great. I thoroughly

2078
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:06,000
Speaker 2: enjoyed geeking out with you. You speak my language, so

2079
01:40:06,479 --> 01:40:08,360
Speaker 2: this is this is right my alley. Thank you.

2080
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 3: Oh, I appreciate it.

2081
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:15,759
Speaker 2: Mark, all right, and with that, I think we should

2082
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 2: wrap this one up. Definitely take Thomas's suggestion there. Check

2083
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:23,000
Speaker 2: out his website, check out the opportunities that he has

2084
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 2: there for you to connect with him or check out

2085
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:28,679
Speaker 2: his videos, et cetera. Good stuff all across the board.

2086
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,800
Speaker 2: So without any further ado, let's wrap this one up

2087
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 2: send you out there to the woods. Best of luck

2088
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 2: out there. Hope you guys are having a great start

2089
01:40:37,080 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 2: to your hunting season so far, and until next time,

2090
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 2: stay wired to Hunt.