1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, Luck and Load. 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: Michael Very Show is on the air. 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: David Kleinwood as our guest. He resides in the Greater 4 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Brinham area now. His son's a head football coach at 5 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there. 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: or followed football for very long. He was a star 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties. 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: He was third runner up for second runner up for 10 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: was blown by then and came home and decided he 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: others and teaches people well how to learn the Bible. He, 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: of course, in the meantime, went and got a pH 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: d in at seminary in theology. David, let me ask 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: you a question. You were talking earlier about theological studies 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: and the types of people who go there. I have 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: heard it said of people I've known who were Theologians 20 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: that went to Harvard Divinity School that there aren't actually 21 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: any Christians there that it's as if it's sort of 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: like you go to a literature school and there's no 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: writers there, that there are people who reduce it to 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: something that does not involve any faith. Do you find 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: that to be the case? 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: Yes, well, yeah, we have in our desire to make 27 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: the Bible more acceptable because of what we were talking 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: in the last session that you know, the Bible calls 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: to suffering. You know, James is going to say, considered 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: all joy in my brethren one year on our various trials, 31 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance, 32 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right, suffering, 33 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 3: you know. And so in our desire to make the 34 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 3: Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting, 35 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings 36 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But 37 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul, 38 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 3: from the very beginning, all of the letters that we 39 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: see in the New Testament were actually in we're having 40 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: a conference coming up in March fourteenth and fifteenth where 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 3: we're going to talk about the letters, but all of 42 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 3: the letters in the Bible, whether it's Romans or Ephesians 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 3: or Galatians or whatever it is. These were letters written 44 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 3: to people or to the church to address theological issues 45 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: that have come up that are causing people to to change, 46 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 3: to compromise. And so every school, Princeton, Harvard, so many 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: of our great schools, Yale, they all began as theological institutions. 48 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: And unfortunately we tend to wander from the faith. And 49 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 3: it wouldn't surprise me if even schools that had historically've 50 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, all of 51 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: these denominations, we're seeing it. They all wonder from the 52 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: faith and compromise, often under the guise of being tolerant 53 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: and more loving. But what happens is we we changed 54 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: the definitions right of these words. And you see it 55 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: even in constitutional law and government and these types of things, 56 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: that if you're allowed to change the definitions, you can 57 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: make it mean whatever you want, right. 58 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: And so I see it's the ultimate or right that 59 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: that's what new speakers are out. He gave us the 60 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: tools to understand this, that words have meaning, and that 61 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: if you need to change concepts, you simply change words 62 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: and change meaning. And it's very powerful you made a 63 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: reference to the church, and I'm never you know, people 64 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: like to paint with a broad brush and refer to 65 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: the black community as if all black people live in 66 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: a certain neighborhood and make the same amount of money 67 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: and do the same things. And it's just not true. 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: And so I'm going to paint with a bit of 69 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: a broad brush. But when you look at the church today, 70 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: organized Christianity in the form most of us would identify with, 71 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: where do you see that as compared to where it was? 72 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: And what would you most like to change? 73 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: I tell you know, when we walk down that that's 74 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: a great question, and we walk down the trail of 75 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: church history. And one of the things that we're doing 76 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 3: at our church, Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are 77 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: I'm helping us think through the reality the distinction between 78 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: the church or a church. A church simply a gathering 79 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 3: of believers, and so you know, and so once a 80 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: you know, a group of believers gathers, we can call 81 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: it a church. But the Body of Christ, the Body 82 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: of Christ is is all believers in all places, in 83 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 3: all times. At the end of the story, people from 84 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: every nation, every tribe, every people, every tongue. Uh, this 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: is the body of Christ. And we have so divided 86 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: the body of Christ. We so you know, we have 87 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 3: factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist. 88 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 4: Uh. 89 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: I sort of just referred to it as Southern Baptist 90 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: and the non Christians. 91 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 4: Well, that's what everybody, that we're the only ones who 92 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 4: are who are saved, right, We're the only ones who 93 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 4: are in And and I love what Paul says to 94 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 4: the Corinthians jail that this is uh, you know, very 95 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 4: early one of uh, one of the early letters that 96 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 4: Paul writes. And there's division in the church at Corinth 97 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 4: and they've divided over following. Some of them are following Paul, 98 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: some of them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of 99 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 4: the church there. 100 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 3: Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 3: the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And 102 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: I love what he says. He says, you know, I 103 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 3: hear that there are divisions among you. Some are saying 104 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm of 105 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 3: Peter of Christ. And then he asked this question, was 106 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 3: Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in the 107 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: name of Paul. I, Thank god, I didn't baptize any 108 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 3: of you, so none of you could say you were 109 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: baptized in my name, right. And then he goes on 110 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: to say, and this is where it kind of makes us, 111 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the Lord didn't send 112 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel. And so 113 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 3: he goes on to explain in this whole letter that 114 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: everything he does is to build up the body of Christ. 115 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: And so we do great error, and we fail to 116 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 3: recognize that all believers in all places, in all times, 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: in all churches, and none of us have the you know, 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 3: we're all heretics in the sense that we all believe 119 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: false doctrine. We just don't know what the false doctrine 120 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 3: is that we're believing. So that's what we've got to 121 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 3: go back to the scriptures all of the time to 122 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: make sure that what we're saying is So we've got 123 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: to be breand and I think that you've got to 124 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 3: have a lot of humility when you come to the 125 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 3: scriptures and put yourself under the authority of the text, 126 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: not under the authority of a teacher, a Bible teacher, 127 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: a ministry, even if it's teached me the Bible or 128 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: whatever it is, we all have to answer to the Lord. 129 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: And so so you know, the church has always been 130 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: in some ways a mess because church is the bride 131 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: of Christ, sure, and the Church is the bride of 132 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: Christ and himself for the Church. And so one of 133 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: the things. 134 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: David David Kleinler is our guest, I'm going to ask 135 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: him in his teach Me the Bible dot com and 136 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Teach Me the Bible podcast sort of way to teach 137 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: me about one of my favorite people in the Bible, 138 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: and that is the Apostle Paul. 139 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: Finish. I just said it's the Judge in Spanish, because 140 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: I feel that she forgets that we're Hispanic and that 141 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: we're the people that. 142 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: She targeted for a boot the Michael Barry Show. David 143 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: Klingler is our guest. You may remember him as a 144 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: football star. 145 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: Uh. 146 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: He went on to get his pH d in theological 147 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: studies with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can 148 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: go to teach Me the Bible dot com in a 149 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: very accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also 150 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: has a podcast, Those of you always looking for a 151 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: fun new podcast, and he's our guest of David Klingler. 152 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: If you would teach me the Bible about Paul. Saul 153 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: of Sarsus, one of my favorite, one of my favorite 154 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: people in all the Bible is uh Saul of Tarsus because. 155 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: Of well, for many reasons. But anyway, teach me the 156 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 2: Bible about Paul. 157 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: Uh. 158 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: What au You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee. Uh. 159 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: You know, he kind of lists his credentials in in 160 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: Philippians chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe 161 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: of Benjamin, circumcised on the eighth to day. He was 162 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: steadfast in his holding to Judaism, persecution of the church 163 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: and uh. And so the thing about Paul is he 164 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 3: knew the Old Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean he 165 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 3: knew Uh, he knew the Bible. He knew the Old 166 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: Testament scriptures. And when he comes to Christ, it just 167 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: changes everything for him. Uh and uh. And so he 168 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 3: wholly devotes himself to the Lord. And and we were 169 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 3: talking in the last segment about the Corinthians and and 170 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: and everything that he does is for the building up 171 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: of the body of Christ. He explains that we are 172 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: members of one another. And I love how he how 173 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: he sets that out. That John says the same thing. 174 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: It's all bringing a little bit of John here in 175 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: first John. But how can you say that you love 176 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: Christ him? You haven't seen None of us have seen Jesus. 177 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: None of us have heard his voice. We talk about, 178 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: you know, we use that kind of language. You know, 179 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 3: I've heard the voice. But you know, but how would 180 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: you know? Right, Paul was going to say, Look, I 181 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: don't care if an angel appears, and you know, in 182 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: the room, if if someone appears to you, if an 183 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: angel appears to you and presents a gospel different than 184 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 3: that which I preached, let him be a cursed And 185 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: you know. And so if we haven't seen Jesus, don't 186 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: tell me about your love of Jesus. Show me your 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 3: love of Jesus through your love of his body. That 188 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 3: is the Church, the body of Christ. And so we 189 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: need to be about building up the body of Christ. 190 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 3: It's everything he does. He sacrifices his whole life, all 191 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: his credentials, to build up the body of Christ, to 192 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 3: take the gospel to the gentiles. And and boy, he 193 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: is bold, I mean unbelievably bold. And ultimately goes to 194 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: his death because of it. Just an amazing character. 195 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: What I find interesting is that. 196 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: Perhaps the verses that that I have most really enjoyed 197 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: diving into and really taking them apart. I like to 198 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: put take things apart and put them back together, not 199 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: physical things, but people and literature and the Bible. And 200 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: I find that with Paul's letters, I do that. And 201 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: I didn't know until later that these were letters, that 202 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: this was a sort of an untraditional, unconventional. 203 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: Portion of the Bible. 204 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: How do you think that affects the books that by 205 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: that that are attributed to Paul, because they were a 206 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: letter formed from prison to those those people's, those churches. 207 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: Well, I think that that if we if we first 208 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we 209 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 3: go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy. 210 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to 211 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things 212 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 3: like look out for Alexander the coppers myth. Well, I'm 213 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 3: not worried about Alexander the copperce myth, you know. And 214 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: he says, bring me my cloak impartments before winner and 215 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm not 216 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: praying for Paul. You know, Paul's you know, but he 217 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: tells Timothy to do other things that are very applicable to today. 218 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: And and so when we remember that Paul, for example, 219 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: was writing to the Romans, the print insalationis Ephesians. Whoever 220 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 3: was to address specific issues that had arisen in that congregation, 221 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy, or 222 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: in the church at Thesalonika. Then we can read them 223 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 3: and it makes sense. We see what he was doing 224 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 3: back then, and we can draw implications for today because 225 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: we're still in the church today, and you know, the 226 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: church still has its struggles and the world is still 227 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say in 228 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: ecclesiastic there's nothing new under the sun. It's the same issues. 229 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 3: People are still pursuing wealth in a big name and 230 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 3: fame and fortune, and then they die and it's all vanity. 231 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 2: David Kleanler is our guest. 232 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: David, let me ask you, you know, having gone to 233 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: law school and then getting another law degree. When people 234 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: ask me questions about, you know, how do I learn 235 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: more about the law, I often say that you have 236 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: to begin by unlearning many things that were told to 237 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: you that are not true because they create blocks, and 238 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: how you understand, you know, how our legal code is written, 239 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: and how how our legal code is interpreted and applied 240 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: and precedent and case law and all these sorts of things. 241 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: What are some things that you think corrupt our general 242 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: understanding of the Bible in a conventional sense that you 243 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: have to undo to go in with a properly open mind. 244 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: M boy, what a great question. I think that our 245 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: denominationalism doesn't help. Our church history doesn't help, our Americanism 246 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: doesn't help. And I'm you know, look, I I'm profoundly 247 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: proud of our American history and so many of the 248 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 3: things there. But when we equate being American with being Christian, 249 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: or or being whatever it is with being Christian, that's 250 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so many 251 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: of the things that we have learned, not only you know, 252 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: limit us from understanding the Bible. 253 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch. 254 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: The devil was was working on our phone lines. You 255 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: did that for a moment, But yeah, throughout his career 256 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: he has uh He has been perseverant and resilient, if if. 257 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: Nothing else, and and he will continue to be. 258 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: Just a second before we go to a quick break, 259 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: and then we'll move on to the next thing. What 260 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: do you love most about what you do now in 261 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: addition to being a dad and a husband and a friend. 262 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: But this, I don't want to call it a job 263 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: per se. But what do you love most about it. 264 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing 265 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 3: that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to 266 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be 267 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth. 268 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: And and so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple, 269 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: and it's fun to watch students they're you know, the 270 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: kind of that aha moment, they get it, they understand it, 271 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: and and it's just fun to watch. And then you 272 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 3: watch how it changes their lives and they devote themselves 273 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: to very different things than they had before. And and 274 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: so that's what I love, That's what I do. I'm 275 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 3: thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So many 276 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 3: great people behind that thing and make that go. I 277 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: I just say on the in the microphone what I 278 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: teach at at the seminary, But just so thankful to 279 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: be a part of that, and that the Lord can 280 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 3: use any of us. You know, you don't have to 281 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: be a retired football player with a big name. 282 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: Uh. 283 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 3: The Lord had always used the smallest each and it's 284 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 3: good that. 285 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 2: You do use it. David Klingley is our cleaner, is 286 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: our guest more than from me, And listen to the 287 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: Michael Berry Show that. 288 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: David Kleomer is our guest football star turned PhD in theology. 289 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: Now teach me the Bible dot Com. There's a podcast, 290 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: Teach Me the Bible dot Com. I noticed, let's talk 291 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: about your team. I noticed you've got some folks. See 292 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: if I can pull the page back up here, You've 293 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: got some folks that are associated with churches who are 294 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: part of I guess this podcast team. Tell me what 295 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: this entity looks like that you are a part of. 296 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: It looks like you run. 297 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 3: It's actually just a very small group of very committed people. 298 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 3: Our budget is next to nothing, and you don't need 299 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 3: a lot of money to do ministry. You need just 300 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 3: some passion and care for people. And so there's still 301 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 3: Porter phil Is He's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship, 302 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: Tim Webb. Tim's the relieve pastor at the church, and 303 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: just a wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends and 304 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 3: just such a faithful guy. Alex Wolfe is actually one 305 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 3: of our PAC students and also a pastor at the church. 306 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 3: And then there's several men who I've trained through the 307 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 3: PhD program who are pastoring at other churches. And we 308 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: all just have a passion to help the people of 309 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 3: God understand the Word of God. And that's what brought 310 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: us together and and so that's what we're what we're doing, 311 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 3: will teach me the Bible. 312 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: And when people engage in this and they want to 313 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: understand the Word of God, how do you think that 314 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: changes them? 315 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 2: How what is their reaction after this? What do you 316 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: hear back? 317 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 3: Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now. 318 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 3: And and I don't want any of the focus. I 319 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 3: always tell our students. I tell our you know, with 320 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: the seminary, we're training pastors, we're training professors, and say 321 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught 322 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 3: or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker, 323 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 3: such a gifted communication or or you know, communicat or whatever, 324 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 3: you're doing something that's bringing attention to you. In our 325 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 3: job is to bring attention to the Lord into his word. 326 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: And so that's really it when they come up and 327 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 3: they say, man, I really thought that I knew Jesus, 328 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 3: but this just is is just so eye opening. It's, 329 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: you know, thank you that makes it worth everything we're doing. 330 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth, 331 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me 332 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: the Bible Conference twenty twenty five and it says, this 333 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: was an interesting line. 334 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: I thought. 335 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: Our mission is to help the people of God understand 336 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: the Word of God. And when you leave this conference, 337 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: you will be able to open your Bible and understand 338 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: all the epistles. 339 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: Is there a particular focus on the epistles? Why do 340 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: you mention that? 341 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 3: Well, last year we did the story of the Scriptures, 342 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 3: and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a 343 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: section of scripture and say, let's understand what this section 344 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 3: of scripture is doing, and we're going to dive into 345 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 3: six specific epistles. Three Paul line epistles, three what we 346 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 3: call general epistles, UH and so we'll be doing Ephesians, 347 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 3: uh and uh, Philippians James first, John first, Peter missing 348 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: the missing one of them. I don't remember which ones. 349 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 3: They're all running together. I think Philippians Upheasians of Philippians 350 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 3: and uh one margin. We'll we'll teach six of them. 351 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: But helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense. I know 352 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 3: what he's saying now, and it kind of demystifies in 353 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 3: some in some way what Paul saying. Paul's just writing 354 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 3: to a historic group of people to address a historic situation. 355 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 3: Uh and uh, And they go, wait a second, this 356 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 3: makes sense. I understand this now, and that's our goal. 357 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 3: That that is simply our goal. Uh, in everything that 358 00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: we're doing. 359 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you 360 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: have a time of day, do you have a place 361 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: where you go? Do you have and I know you 362 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: do to teach me the Bible in the year, which 363 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have done. If not, 364 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: your course of courses and programs like that. You know, 365 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: the consistency seems to help folks, But what is your 366 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: personal Bible study? 367 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: Your personal nourishment? 368 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 3: I'm you know, I tell people all the time, I 369 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: can't believe that I get to do what I do. 370 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 3: Basically my day involves waking up and or reflecting on 371 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: what I was thinking about all night. You know, it 372 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 3: is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently, 373 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 3: I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten 374 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, trying to figure out 375 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: what's going on there. And so I get to wake 376 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 3: up and interest reflect on the Bible all day I. 377 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: Do. 378 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 3: You know, I use the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic textters a 379 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: few sections of their make in the Bible and just 380 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: try to understand it better so that it changes my 381 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 3: life and hopefully changes the lives of those around us. 382 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 3: And boy, we need more people who handle the Word 383 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 3: of God will to lead the church bring desperate need. 384 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: We are losing pastors. Not many folks are going into 385 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 3: the ministry. Why is that, Well, it's a great question. 386 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 3: I think that there's not a lot of glitz to it. 387 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 3: It's a hard job. People are hard to deal with sometimes. 388 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 3: I think one statistic I heard was that about ten 389 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 3: percent of our students are our graduates that go into 390 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 3: the full time ministry are still in ministry within five 391 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 3: to seven years. 392 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: And well, you know as well as that pastoring a church, 393 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: tending a flock is a very different undertaking, in a 394 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: more difficult undertaking than what might be more considerate, you know, 395 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: in the of Joel ostein preaching, whether that be on 396 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: TV or in a megachurch or whatever it is, the 397 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: concept of preaching is only one aspect of pastoring. But 398 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: the pastoring is is is tough because you are really 399 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: as tending a flock. And that's that's where the heavy 400 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: lifting comes in in my opinion. 401 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, I mean you can't. You can't. Pastor 402 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 3: the multitude Doctor Swindle Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I 403 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 3: remember one day I was talking with him. And there's 404 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: so many I've just benefited from, so many profoundly wise people, 405 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 3: but the one day I was talking to him and 406 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 3: I just thanked him for his giant impact that he's 407 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 3: had in ministry, and I was thinking about, you know, 408 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 3: his insight for living ministry and radio ministry, and he 409 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 3: stopped me and he said, let me explain something to you, 410 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: you know, kind of like when you take the little 411 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 3: kid in your on your arms, you let me explain 412 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 3: up to you very clearly. So you don't misunderstand that. 413 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 3: He said you can impress from afar, but you can 414 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: only impact up close. And I think about that a lot. 415 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: That uh that that we've we live in this world 416 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 3: and you know, podcasts do it and radio does it, 417 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 3: and you can influence a lot of people. But the 418 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 3: amount of time that you can actually spend to get 419 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 3: to know someone and to to to get deep into 420 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 3: their life, that it's not many. And and that's the 421 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 3: that's the hard part of pastoring. We were so driven 422 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 3: by this megachurch model where we all want to have 423 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: the giant, biggest churches and the biggest ministries and you know, 424 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 3: the podcast that reaches millions and all that stuff. But 425 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 3: you know, but in doing that, you pass over the 426 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 3: people that are right in front of you, uh that 427 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: that you should be caring for and you're not. And 428 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 3: and so pastoring is hard work and and and it's 429 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 3: not often met with the all the praiser of the 430 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: world and even the praiser of Wickham the church. Often 431 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: it's met with cricketers in and so it's hard work, 432 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: but it's very rewarding. 433 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: Hold with this one more one more segment with David 434 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: Kleingler m. 435 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: Duck, King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry. 436 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: These are the kind of guys you like to smack an. 437 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: I found out recently that David Klingler in a Where 438 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: Are They Now? Episode v H one style, who was 439 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: the star quarterback when I was at the University of Houston. 440 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: For the Cougars UH. He was. 441 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: He was nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, 442 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: beloved following Andre Ware and numbers even more impressive than 443 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: Andrea and Andre to be the first day this heyday 444 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: of UH football. And I found out that he went 445 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: to a theological seminary, got his pH d. And now 446 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: he's teaching in any different roles, and one of them 447 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: is sort of a to the general public, and it's 448 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: called Teach Me Thebible dot Com. 449 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: You can find them online. 450 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: And a podcast, so if you'd like to do that, 451 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: they do learn the Bible in a year. They have 452 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: a conference coming up. I noticed, let's talk about the 453 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: dollars and cents, And I know people are uncomfortable with 454 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: that sometimes, but it is a part of everything we do. 455 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: It doesn't appear to me that you're trying to. 456 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: Make much, if any money off of this thing, because 457 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: I noticed that the conference schedule, a two day conference 458 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: is a whopping twenty nine dollars and you have to 459 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: defray the costs of all sorts of things to even 460 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: put that on. Is that a conscious decision of you know, 461 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: this isn't a business enterprise. 462 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 3: Yes, yes it is. And again I think that you know, 463 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 3: I want to criticize churches. You know, we do need 464 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: somewhere to meet and all that, but for the most part, 465 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 3: ministry takes no money. It takes time. And so you 466 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 3: know when we said, well we need to do a podcast, 467 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: well how much does that does that take? It takes 468 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 3: some some people who are committed in some time. It 469 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 3: takes a computer, It takes a couple of of microphones 470 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 3: and uh and focus to sit in front of them. 471 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 3: And so really, you know, we can do this, this 472 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: whole ministry for a very very small amount. And I've 473 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 3: covered that expense. And and I love what Paul says. 474 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 3: It seems like we keep going back to the Corinthians. 475 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 3: But you know that Paul works in their midst and 476 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: and wasn't a burden to any of them. And the 477 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: reason why he does this is so that none of 478 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 3: them could say that his motivation was financial. His motivation 479 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: was for money. Everything that he was doing was for 480 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: the building up of the Body of Christ and to 481 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 3: benefit the church. And so our mission. So often mission 482 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 3: statements of an organization are are state admission, but they're 483 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 3: not the real mission. Our real misis is to help 484 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 3: the people of God understand the Word of God. And 485 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: that's it. And we want to do it as a 486 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 3: labor of love, and we want to do it for 487 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 3: as cheaply as we can to benefit the church. So 488 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 3: we don't you know, if you want to give, great 489 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 3: but you know we don't need your gifts. 490 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where 491 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: you are. And I'm not building you up as perfect 492 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: I know you will. You would not be comfortable with that. 493 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: It's it's inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about 494 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: decision making in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions 495 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: that I would consider to be very good decisions. To 496 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: put yourself the ledger of your decision making would be 497 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: better than bad. To put yourself in a position where 498 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: you're proud of your kids, you're happy in your marriage, 499 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: your your skills and talents are being put to good 500 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: use toward your faith through your ministry. When you talk 501 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: to young athletes, and you've done that over the years, 502 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: and you talk to young people, what advice Looking back 503 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: now where you are in your fifties, do you say, 504 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: I wish I'd learned this, wish somebody told me this, 505 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: or these are some things that really seem to resonate 506 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: with young people. 507 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 3: I'm so thankful Jack Party. You know, back at our 508 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 3: time at u of H, he was a man of 509 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 3: such unbelievable character. So many great men poured into my 510 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: life and I really took what they said to hart. 511 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 3: And it troubles me today that we've kind of turned 512 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 3: our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency. You know, 513 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: everybody is is a free agent. They're all working for themselves. 514 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 3: We're seeing this in college football, certainly, it's been around 515 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: the NFL for you. Even in the youth sports. You know, 516 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: I guess you got six year olds play on select teams, 517 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 3: and you know they act as a free agent. And 518 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 3: and somewhere in our culture we need to learn the 519 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 3: concept of individual sacrifice for mutual benefit, that there is 520 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 3: a mission and nothing worth achieving is going to be 521 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 3: achieved by yourself. It's going to take a bunch of 522 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: people single minded in the mission to try to achieve 523 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 3: something greater than yourself. And frankly, I think that's that's 524 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 3: why Nick Saban, I think, has left college football. I 525 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 3: think that that, you know, increasingly, it's become difficult in 526 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 3: our culture to find use these places, and so we're 527 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: not interested in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. 528 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 3: We're not interested in doing anything that's hard, and so 529 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 3: we suffer because of it. That everything that's great that 530 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 3: you want to achieve in life is going to cost 531 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: you to suffer. It's going to be hard, and it's 532 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 3: going to take the help of others to do it. 533 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 3: And so I'm so proud of my two boys, you know, coaching. 534 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not so sure that pastoring is the 535 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 3: most influential thing in our culture anymore. Maybe at one 536 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 3: time it was sports. I think is probably right at 537 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 3: the top of the list now And at least in 538 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 3: my life, my coaches had the biggest influence on me. 539 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: And so I'm so proud of what they're doing there. 540 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 3: They have devoted their their lives not to teaching football 541 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 3: x's and o's or bun and shoot or you know, 542 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 3: some offense or something, but teaching character. They're They're in 543 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 3: the character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud of 544 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 3: them to that. 545 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: You know, in my life, I think of the people 546 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: who have had the biggest influence, and I still have 547 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents, 548 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth 549 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: pastors and pastors, and more of those were outside the 550 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: church than in. And I think everybody understands the role 551 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: you have in raising young people and we see the 552 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 1: results when we don't do our job. And maybe that's 553 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: an avuncular role because you know, our brother or sisters 554 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion, or maybe 555 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion. I think 556 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people have been afraid to do that, 557 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: and we could spend a lot of time on why 558 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: that is. I'm going to ask you as we part, 559 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: to give me one quick memory of playing ball at 560 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: the University of Houston. That is when you will always 561 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: fondly remember a moment, a game, something. 562 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 3: There was a play and I've talked to Andre about this. 563 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 3: It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we 564 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 3: were there together, we were there at the same time. 565 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 3: We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends, 566 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas. 567 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 3: They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins, 568 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 3: the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre 569 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 3: was going to you know, as we were always at 570 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: the line calling the plays, and so he would kind 571 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 3: of wander out to the right and call the play 572 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: to the right, and then he would go to the 573 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: left and he would yell out to the receivers at 574 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 3: the left, and as he went out to the left, 575 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 3: we'd snap the ball and I would My job was 576 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon, 577 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 3: who was the running back. And so I'm back there 578 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 3: in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And we 579 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 3: were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good chance 580 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 3: to win the Heisman that year, and he was throwing 581 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 3: for all kinds of yards and touchdowns and if he 582 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: could catch a touchdown pass, that would just be great 583 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,479 Speaker 3: and was and I was as nervous as I could be, 584 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 3: because you know, I had to throw this thing. And 585 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: so off he goes down the sideline and sure enough 586 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 3: he's wide all pecker and thankfully through a decent ball 587 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 3: if it'd been a little bettery to score it, but 588 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 3: he caught that thing going down the sideline. It's just 589 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 3: a you know, just a great memory that I that 590 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: I had, And thank. 591 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: You for sharing that Up against the Clock, David Klingler. 592 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing a few hours of your time 593 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: with us, and thank you for your mention. 594 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 3: Hell us had us a lot for killing. Thank you 595 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 3: and good night.