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Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and

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Speaker 1: Courture's Latino usc L Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We

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Speaker 1: bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you,

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Speaker 1: overlooked by the rest of the media, and while the

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Speaker 1: country is struggling to deal with these, we listen to

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Speaker 1: the stories of black and Latino Studio United, Latino Front,

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Speaker 1: a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement.

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Speaker 1: I'm Maria Ino Jossa nose Bayan. Hey, Latino USA, listener, Gomostas,

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Speaker 1: here's a show from Los Archivos.

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Speaker 2: So I was with two uncles and a cousin and

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Speaker 2: we were heading down to Miami for vacation.

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Speaker 1: This is Roland Sylvain and what he's talking about happened

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Speaker 1: almost twenty years ago.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're having a good song. Listen to music.

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Speaker 1: He's feeling good, sailing down the open road going about

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Speaker 1: eighty two miles an hour, which is more than the

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Speaker 1: speed limit. And as he's cruising through Virginia, a police

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Speaker 1: car pulls up behind him.

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Speaker 2: I just hear the signs behind me, so I just

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Speaker 2: pull over. And when I pulled up, I said, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: like I'm gonna get in some serious shof because I

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Speaker 2: don't have my license on me, and all the guys

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Speaker 2: are like, what what are you talking about? D da

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Speaker 2: da da da, And I'm like, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I have my licen but I'm suspended.

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Speaker 1: From Fuduro media and BrX. It's Latino USA. I'm Marienno

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Speaker 1: Posa Today how a little known change in immigration policy

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Speaker 1: could turn a man's traffic stop into a life sentence.

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Speaker 1: Roland Sylvain was born in Haiti, though by the time

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Speaker 1: of his birth in nineteen seventy eight, most of his

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Speaker 1: family had one foot out of the country.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather actually was the one that started it. He

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Speaker 2: had issues in Haiti for political reasons and things like that.

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Speaker 1: His grandfather's problems started during the brutal dictatorship of President

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Speaker 1: Francois du Vallier, who's usually known as Papa Doc.

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Speaker 2: Papa Doc allowed no political descent while he ruled.

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Speaker 1: The mortality rate of political prisoners reportedly was the worst.

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Speaker 2: In the world.

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Speaker 1: He and his son, known as Baby Doc, ruled over

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Speaker 1: Haiti from the late nineteen fifties till the mid nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 3: For the first time in nearly thirty years of Duvalier dictatorships.

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Speaker 2: Haitians are talking openly about overthrowing their leader.

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Speaker 1: Roland doesn't know exactly what went wrong, but by the

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Speaker 1: time he was born, his grandfather was building a new

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Speaker 1: life for himself in New York City. He was one

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Speaker 1: of tens of thousands of Haitians who came to the

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Speaker 1: US around that time.

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Speaker 4: Patients have been fleeing there Ireland, claiming to be refugees

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Speaker 4: from political repression.

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Speaker 1: Within a few years, Roland's grandfather got settled and was

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Speaker 1: able to bring the rest of his family to New

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Speaker 1: York legally. And so in December of nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 1: little seven year old Roland boarded a place in shorts

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Speaker 1: and a T shirt and flew to John F. Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Airport in New York City. And given the time of

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Speaker 1: the year, New York City was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a shock.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was, puzzled worldhere it was

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Speaker 2: that freezing.

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Speaker 1: But then a bunch of his relatives pulled up in a.

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Speaker 2: Really big van and they had to run at one

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Speaker 2: of the stores inside the airport and get us colts.

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Speaker 1: They bundled him up and welcomed Roland to America. From

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Speaker 1: the moment he arrived in the US. Roland was a legal,

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Speaker 1: permanent resident, and his life became very American very quickly.

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Speaker 1: After a couple of years living in Brooklyn, his parents

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Speaker 1: moved him and his siblings to the New Jersey suburbs.

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Speaker 1: Roland finished high school and got a job at a

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Speaker 1: chemical plant.

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Speaker 2: Became the manager there. Everybody loved me because I was

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Speaker 2: the youngest guy. It's a job.

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Speaker 1: He started making good money. Then after nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: he got laid off for a while, which someone else

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Speaker 1: might have seen as a glass half empty kind of situation,

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Speaker 1: but Roland he saw freedom.

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Speaker 2: I just had fun. I had my full one K.

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Speaker 2: I was loaded, so I took my full one K.

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Speaker 2: He took off on the road, kept going back and

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Speaker 2: forth to.

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Speaker 1: Montreal, Miami, Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: Well, Texas. I did Texas a few times. I was

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Speaker 2: a teenager, so I was just enjoying myself.

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Speaker 1: And it was on one of these trips that Roland

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Speaker 1: got pulled over for speeding. This traffic stop and the

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Speaker 1: events that followed would lead Roland's story to collide a

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Speaker 1: few years later with another man's, a teenager whose unusual

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Speaker 1: journey through the United States immigration system has derailed tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of people's lives. We're going to tell you

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Speaker 1: both of their stories because the trouble Roland got into

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Speaker 1: is still haunting him now. It's threatening almost everything he

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Speaker 1: assumed to be true about his life, and he isn't

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Speaker 1: the only one. Our story today is reported in collaboration

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Speaker 1: with Documented, a local immigration publication. Here in New York City,

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Speaker 1: reporters Mazin Sidakhmed and Max Sigelbaum teamed up with Latino

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Speaker 1: USA producer Alissa Escarse to follow Roland's story. Masin Sidakhmed

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Speaker 1: is going to pick up the story here.

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Speaker 5: Roland says his license has been suspended over an unpaid

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Speaker 5: parking ticket about a week before he left for Miami,

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Speaker 5: and he knew he shouldn't have been driving.

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Speaker 2: But my uncles they were all like dead tired, So

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, fine, I'll tell y'all drive.

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Speaker 5: He was driving his uncle black Mercedes Benz and at

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Speaker 5: the moment he heard the officer's siren go off, he

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Speaker 5: was driving through Virginia, specifically Hanover County, Virginia, which is

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Speaker 5: pretty conservative in eighty four percent whites.

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Speaker 2: From the time I saw the police officer turn on

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Speaker 2: his lights. I said, up, yep, in this bens four

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Speaker 2: black guys. This is the reason why we getting pulled over.

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Speaker 5: But of course he pulled over. The officer asked him

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Speaker 5: to get out of the car, and Roland started panicking.

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Speaker 2: I'm scared as hell. And then and then he handed

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Speaker 2: me over the three tickets.

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Speaker 5: Roland remembers one being for speeding, one for not having

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Speaker 5: his seatbelt on, and one for not having a proper ID.

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Speaker 5: And in that moment, Roland made a split second decision

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Speaker 5: to sign the tickets using his cousin's name.

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Speaker 2: So I signed the first two tickets and when I

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Speaker 2: got to the third ticket to go sign, I just

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Speaker 2: I just confessed the office dude, I'm so sorry. I

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Speaker 2: just panicked.

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Speaker 5: I lied. My name is Roland, Roland says. The officer

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Speaker 5: turned around and he said, you just.

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Speaker 2: Earned yourself three felony charges. And then I just was

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Speaker 2: like what.

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Speaker 5: The officer arrested Roland and he was charged with three

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Speaker 5: counts of forgery, one for each signature. Roland was booked

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Speaker 5: into the local jail for a few hours to his

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Speaker 5: family us at bail. Then he was free to go.

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Speaker 5: So we had to go back to Virginia. Six months

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Speaker 5: later to go to court.

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Speaker 2: And this sentenced me in Virginia for a year and

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Speaker 2: six months for east traffic ticket jail time. Jail time.

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Speaker 5: That was like Tina USA producer at least, said Scott

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Speaker 5: to say. Roland couldn't help, but wonder if racism was

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Speaker 5: at the root this whole experience. But of course he

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Speaker 5: could improve it. And in the end the jail time

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Speaker 5: was suspended. He just got probation. He didn't spend the

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Speaker 5: day locked up. Roland headed back to New Jersey, started

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Speaker 5: a new job and life went on as normal. A

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Speaker 5: few years later he met a girl.

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Speaker 2: We met through family, of course.

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Speaker 5: They loved going out to eat and going club it.

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Speaker 5: Pretty soon they fell in love. Then they got married.

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Speaker 2: We ended up having two beautiful boys. They bought a house,

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Speaker 2: bought a car. My life had changed. I wasn't partying

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Speaker 2: as much anymore. I wasn't, you know, hanging out with

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Speaker 2: the boys anymore, with the fellas. I was just settling down.

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Speaker 5: Even though he was settling down, Roland still had the

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Speaker 5: travel book and in the summer of twenty eleven he

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Speaker 5: booked a trip on a Caribbean cruise with his big

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Speaker 5: extended family. It was the first time he traveled outside

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Speaker 5: the country with all of them.

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Speaker 2: Being on the ship. My wife and I won like

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Speaker 2: the best couples award because she was pregnant. Stomics bigger word,

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Speaker 2: just doing all the activities and doing all types of stuff.

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Speaker 5: On the last day of the cruise, the ship docked

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Speaker 5: in Tampa. The family lined up to go through customs

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Speaker 5: and Roland pulled out his passport and his Green card.

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Speaker 5: And this was the moment when Rollin's life as he

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Speaker 5: knew it started to go sideways. You have to remember,

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Speaker 5: at this point, Roland had spent the last twenty six

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Speaker 5: years living in the US as a legal permanent resident.

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Speaker 5: He already thought of himself as an American, and he

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Speaker 5: had since he was a little kid, so much so

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Speaker 5: that applying for citizenship hadn't crossed his mind. It just

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Speaker 5: never felt like an urgent thing to do. So when

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Speaker 5: the customs officer checked his documents and then pulled him aside,

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Speaker 5: Roland was confused.

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Speaker 2: And then another officer came and walked us through the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the boat, and I remember asking questions like

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Speaker 2: what's going on? What's going on?

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Speaker 5: Rowland says. The officers took his fingerprints and his green

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Speaker 5: card and told him me to find out what was

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Speaker 5: going on once he got back to New York.

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Speaker 2: And when I came back to my family, everyone was

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Speaker 2: crying and going because like, what's this about. I have

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Speaker 2: no idea.

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Speaker 5: The family boarded their flight home, and they landed in

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Speaker 5: New York A couple of hours later. Rowland says an

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Speaker 5: ice officer met him at the door of the plane

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Speaker 5: and walks into an immigration office inside the airport.

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Speaker 2: And I remember the lady, the officer there. She said,

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Speaker 2: do you know anything about Virginia? And I said Virginia.

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Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean? And then she just says, well,

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Speaker 2: this is something that has to do with Virginia. And

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Speaker 2: I was like what, no way. I started laughing. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: no way, this is impossible. Like Virginia, that case was

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Speaker 2: done already, Like I paid my fines, everything was already

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Speaker 2: finished with the.

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Speaker 5: Woman let Roland go. But a few months later he

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Speaker 5: had to appear at the immigration court in downtown Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: I remember the judge at the time, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: calling everybody's name up. I'm like, wait, what this is

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Speaker 2: like caught for a removal.

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Speaker 5: Like for deportation. Then the judge called up Roland.

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Speaker 4: All right, we're on the record at the Immigration court

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Speaker 4: in New York City, January twenty fourth, twenty twelve.

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Speaker 5: And the judge starts to explain what's going on. So,

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Speaker 5: even though Roland was done with Virginia as far as

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Speaker 5: the criminal justice system was concerned, now he was being

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Speaker 5: prosecuted for those same crimes by the Department of Homeland Security.

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Speaker 4: They're saying on the basis of those criminal cases that

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Speaker 4: you could be removed or deported from the United States.

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Speaker 4: So this is a serious matter. You could lose your

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Speaker 4: residence status and have to leave the country.

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Speaker 5: I was like, what it was traffic tickets, But in

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Speaker 5: Roland's case, traffic tickets were not just traffic tickets. That's

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Speaker 5: because back in nineteen ninety six, Congress passed a couple

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Speaker 5: of laws that made it so that a wide range

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Speaker 5: of criminal convictions, including things like marijuana possession and in

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Speaker 5: one case I read about shoplifting diapers, if you did

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Speaker 5: those things and you were an immigrant, it could triger

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Speaker 5: mandatory deport So ever since then, really small crimes have

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Speaker 5: led to really serious consequences for people who are not citizens.

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Speaker 5: Enforcement of those laws has gone more and more sophisticated

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Speaker 5: over the years, which probably explains why it took a

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Speaker 5: while for Roland to end up in deportation proceedings after

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Speaker 5: his conviction in Virginia. But when Roland walked off that

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Speaker 5: cruise ship and went through customs, it triggered the enforcement

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Speaker 5: system and it came crashing down on him.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that's everything I wanted to explain to you. Do

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Speaker 4: you have anything else that you need to ask me

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Speaker 4: at this time?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: No, y'ah okayo.

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Speaker 5: The hearing ends and the judge tells Roland to get

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Speaker 5: a lawyer, which he does. They show up for his

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Speaker 5: next hearing a few months later when.

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Speaker 2: It was a speeding ticket where he used an alias.

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Speaker 5: That's Roland's lawyer.

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Speaker 6: He didn't forge the speeding ticket, No, no, no.

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Speaker 7: He forged his last I mean he forged someone else's

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Speaker 7: name on the ticket.

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Speaker 4: It looks like they got three counts out of those

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Speaker 4: if you've given the way they allege it corright.

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Speaker 5: The judge says, it looks like that conviction for signing

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Speaker 5: his cousin's name on those tickets, it could get him

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Speaker 5: a deportation order. He was after this second hearing that

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Speaker 5: it hit Rolin that what he was dealing with wasn't

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Speaker 5: some little administrative issue.

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Speaker 2: I remember going home and crying, I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: home and crying and crying. I grab Jolan and I

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Speaker 2: was just holding on to Jolin, which is my son.

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Speaker 5: Immigration cases take a while, and over the next two years,

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Speaker 5: Roland had to live with the possibility of being sent

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Speaker 5: back to a country where he doesn't know anyone. He

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Speaker 5: hasn't been to Haiti since he was seven, and the

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Speaker 5: stress of that possibility started to take over his mind.

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Speaker 2: That couldn't sleep. I was just overthinking everything.

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Speaker 5: He had chest pains that was so bad he had

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Speaker 5: to go to the doctor. He got really depressed.

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Speaker 2: It pretty much broke up my family because it put

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Speaker 2: a lot of stress on my wife. I was completely

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Speaker 2: out of it.

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Speaker 5: Eventually, he and his wife got divorced, and Roland found

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Speaker 5: himself without a place to live.

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Speaker 2: Walked around with a black bag with a big black

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Speaker 2: garbage bag, and I would stay at one family member's house, like, okay, Roland,

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Speaker 2: well how long you're going to be staying here? You know,

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Speaker 2: he can't stay here for long. I'll just pack up

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Speaker 2: a black bag and go to a next family member's house.

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Speaker 5: But while all of this was happening, Roland's case also

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Speaker 5: started to get some attention. There were articles of I'm

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Speaker 5: in the Atlantic and a few other places.

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Speaker 2: Then I'm getting phone calls at like six in the morning, Roland,

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Speaker 2: what's going on while you're on the news, and d

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Speaker 2: D D D D da.

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Speaker 3: Da da da.

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Speaker 5: At one point he went down to DC with an

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Speaker 5: advocacy group to tell his story to members of Congress.

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Speaker 2: Each congressman that we met with, you know, the first

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Speaker 2: thing he would say was anybody want to drink? And

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Speaker 2: I would say yeah. He made some friends, he says.

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Speaker 2: He even got some letters of support from members of Congress.

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Speaker 2: And on the day of the final hearing, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to judge saying like, oh, you've got some good people

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Speaker 2: behind you. Huh. I see you've made the news. You're

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Speaker 2: pretty popular these days.

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Speaker 5: Roland was terrified as he waited for the hearing to start.

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Speaker 4: We're on the record the Immigration Court, New York City.

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Speaker 5: But then the judge is something that Roland did not

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Speaker 5: see coming.

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Speaker 4: So the parties have reached an agreement for administrative closure

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Speaker 4: based on prosecutorytorial discretion. Right, So, sir, your case is

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Speaker 4: going to be administratively closed.

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Speaker 5: After almost three years of going to court over and

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Speaker 5: over again and watching his whole life fall apart, Roland's

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Speaker 5: case was closed.

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Speaker 4: Now just briefly. That doesn't mean you win the case.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't mean you lose the case. It means really

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Speaker 4: nothing has happened.

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Speaker 5: What the judge did here is something called administrative closure,

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Speaker 5: which is basically when judges put a case on pause indefinitely.

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Speaker 5: At the time, judges would do this for a variety

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Speaker 5: of reasons, mostly to keep their case loads manageable, though

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Speaker 5: the Obama administration sometimes used it as a way to

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Speaker 5: cut people a little slack if they didn't think it

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Speaker 5: was a priority to deport them. It wasn't a full

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Speaker 5: proof solution. Roland's case could be reopened for really any

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Speaker 5: reason at all. But in that moment, as the case

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Speaker 5: was being closed, Roland just felt relief.

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Speaker 2: And I was happy afterwards, And I remember going home

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Speaker 2: that night and I cried and cried and cried and

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Speaker 2: cried and cried.

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Speaker 5: Over the next few years, Roland got a new job

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Speaker 5: and an apartment back in New York City. He started

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Speaker 5: dating a little and then one day, while he was

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Speaker 5: at work, he got an email from his.

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Speaker 2: Old lawyer saying that my case has been put back

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Speaker 2: on the calendar.

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Speaker 5: This was July of twenty eighteen, almost four years after

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Speaker 5: his case was closed. And what this meant was a

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Speaker 5: Roland I took back to the immigration court. His case

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Speaker 5: was being reopened.

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Speaker 2: I remember reading this email and shaking, and I ran

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Speaker 2: outside and smoked like twenty cigarettes, back to back to

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Speaker 2: back to back to back to back to back, NonStop.

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Speaker 5: And kind of like the first time. It just didn't

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Speaker 5: make sense to him.

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Speaker 2: I didn't get in trouble. Why nothing happened? Is this

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Speaker 2: must be a mistake.

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Speaker 5: The email didn't explain what was going on, except for

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Speaker 5: this one clue a detail.

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Speaker 2: I think it did mention something about Castle.

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Speaker 5: Roland's case was being reopened because of a decision by

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Speaker 5: then ATTORNI General Jeff Sessions called the matter of Castro too.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA. We're gonna leave Roland Sylvain's

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Speaker 1: story for a moment to track down the mysterious man

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Speaker 1: whose case dragged Roland back into court. Stay with us, Yes, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're back, And before the break we met Roland Sylvain,

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Speaker 1: a Haitian American man who finds himself facing the possibility

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Speaker 1: of deportation a decade after he signed his cousin's name

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Speaker 1: on three traffic tickets. Now, let you know, USA producer

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Speaker 1: Alisa Skars is going to take us to Pennsylvania in

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Speaker 1: search of another man, a man Roland has never met,

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Speaker 1: but whose story has altered the course of Roland's life.

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Speaker 1: Alisa has been reporting this story in collaboration with Mazin

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Speaker 1: Sidakman and Max Siegelbaum from Documented, and Alisa has got

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Speaker 1: to pick up the story.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 8: The reason Roland got called back into court was because

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Speaker 8: of this man who the US government lost track of

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Speaker 8: a few years ago when he was a teenager. His

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Speaker 8: name is Rainaldo Castro Tum.

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Speaker 6: What we know is he came here when he was seventeen.

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Speaker 8: We talked about his case with an immigration lawyer in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 8: a guy named Matthew Rchimbo. What he knows about Rainaldo

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Speaker 8: comes from government.

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Speaker 6: Documents uncompany minor from Guatemala.

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Speaker 8: So in June of twenty fourteen, this was during the

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Speaker 8: Obama administration, Rinaldo arrived at the US border. He was

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Speaker 8: one of almost sixty four thousand unaccompanied miners who showed

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Speaker 8: up at the border that year, and the vast majority

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Speaker 8: were from Central America.

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Speaker 3: It is a huge humanitarian crisis on the border right now,

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Speaker 3: a gigantic, unprecedented surge of miners, most without parents or guardians,

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Speaker 3: crossing our southern border on their own by the thousands.

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Speaker 8: Rinaldo was picked up by border patrol.

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Speaker 6: He gave the border patrol an address.

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Speaker 8: That address was for his brother in law, who lived

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Speaker 8: in a farming town in western Pennsylvania. Rinaldo was planning

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Speaker 8: to live with him while he waited for an immigration

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Speaker 8: judge to consider his case. The government sent him off

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Speaker 8: to Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 6: The only verification, only address that they really had was

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Speaker 6: the address that he gave to the Border patrol.

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Speaker 8: And that address became important a couple months later when

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Speaker 8: Ronaldo was supposed to show up an immigration court because

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Speaker 8: the notice telling him his court date was sent in

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Speaker 8: the mail. Rinaldo was assigned to a court in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 8: but when his hearing date came around in the fall

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Speaker 8: of twenty fourteen, he didn't show, so the judge rescheduled

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Speaker 8: the case, but Rainaldo didn't show again. So then this judge,

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Speaker 8: his name is Stephen Morley, he asked the government.

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Speaker 6: Can you get me verification that they verified this address,

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Speaker 6: and this is the address that he went to.

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Speaker 8: Judge Morley was worried that Rainaldo wasn't showing up because

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Speaker 8: he hadn't gotten the letters saying he had to come

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Speaker 8: to court. And after four more hearings, he still wasn't

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Speaker 8: convinced that the government had the right address.

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Speaker 6: So at some point Morley got frustrated and said, listen,

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Speaker 6: I'm going to close this case. I'm going to put

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Speaker 6: it on my shelf when you get that verification for me.

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Speaker 6: Let me know.

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Speaker 8: Morley closed the case the same way Roland's judge closed his,

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Speaker 8: by using administrative closure, basically to hit pause till the

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Speaker 8: government got the address. Things sorted out. But then the

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Speaker 8: government appealed the case. And this is where things get

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Speaker 8: kind of unusual. That's because the guy in charge of

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Speaker 8: the whole immigration court system at the time, Attorney General

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Speaker 8: Jeff Sessions, he picked up this case and said, actually,

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Speaker 8: I'm going to decide this one myself, and his decision

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Speaker 8: would affect way more than just Rainaldo's case. It would

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Speaker 8: change the rules for every other case as well.

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Speaker 6: To say that, you know, basically judges can't exercise their

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Speaker 6: own independent judge, so no more administrative closure.

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Speaker 8: No more administrative closure for anybody, no more putting cases

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Speaker 8: on the shelf. Rinaldo's case got sent back to that

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Speaker 8: judge in Philadelphia, Stephen Morley, and he was told to

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Speaker 8: reschedule the hearing for just a couple weeks later. If

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Speaker 8: Rinaldo didn't show again, the judge was supposed to order

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Speaker 8: him deported even if he didn't know about the hearing

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Speaker 8: because of that wrong address. And to Matthew Archimbaud, all

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Speaker 8: of this seemed unfair.

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Speaker 6: It's like, well, why would you have to pick this

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Speaker 6: case a kid that's unrepresented? Why not pick many of

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Speaker 6: the thousands of cases where there are attorneys that can

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Speaker 6: actually advocate for their client. So that's what kind of

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Speaker 6: drove me to like, can we find cast for Tom?

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Speaker 6: And then if not, what are we going to do?

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Speaker 8: You were thinking like, let's find this kid and I'll

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Speaker 8: be his lawyer.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and then we can go to court and go hey,

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Speaker 6: here we are kind of like, screw it all up.

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Speaker 8: Archinbaut sent out a message to some other lawyers saying

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Speaker 8: let's go find Rainaldo kestro Tomb and he got connected

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Speaker 8: to a paralegal from a nonprofit who happened to live

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Speaker 8: near Raynaldo's now notorious address, and one afternoon she set

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Speaker 8: out with a colleague to find him.

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Speaker 9: So you know, when you drive down the road, you

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Speaker 9: see some trailer parks. You see a lot of trailer parks.

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Speaker 8: This is that paralegal or former paralegal. She's in law

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Speaker 8: school now. Her name is Mana Aliabadi.

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Speaker 9: You see a lot of churches. I've seen a lot

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Speaker 9: of like pro life billboards, or like make America great again,

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Speaker 9: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 8: Mana drove for about an hour and she found the

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Speaker 8: address inside one of those trailer parks.

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Speaker 9: So, yeah, we knocked on the door.

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Speaker 8: Nobody answered, so she left a note, and a little

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Speaker 8: while later she got.

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Speaker 9: A call and it was this guy that said, oh

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Speaker 9: I just got home. I got your note that you

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Speaker 9: left about Ronaldo. So we're like, oh, okay, we got

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Speaker 9: to go back.

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Speaker 8: She drove back to the address, and she says she

437
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Speaker 8: was greeted by an older Mexican man who.

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Speaker 9: Said, I just bought this trailer from the previous owner.

439
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 9: I don't know this specific person, but I do know

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Speaker 9: that there were a group of five or six workers

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Speaker 9: that were living here, and they were from Central America.

442
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 8: The man didn't know where the previous owners had gone,

443
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 8: but he gave Mana another clue.

444
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 9: He said they all at some point worked at a

445
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 9: specific store in Washington County, so he said, maybe if

446
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 9: you go there, they'll have more information.

447
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 8: Mana drove to the store with her colleague. It was

448
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 8: a Latino grocery store, and she'd actually met one of

449
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 8: the clerks before, so she walked in, found the clerk

450
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 8: and said, hey, we were wondering have you heard of

451
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 8: this guy Rainaldo Castro tomb.

452
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 9: And she kind of looked at me and didn't say anything.

453
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 9: And I said, okay, so I think she'd know something,

454
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 9: but maybe she doesn't want to say.

455
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 8: The clerk disappeared to the back of the store for

456
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 8: a second, and when she came back, she said, nope,

457
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 8: I don't know that person.

458
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 9: I was like, okay, something is going on here.

459
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 8: The clerk seemed to notice that Mina was disappointed and

460
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 8: that she wasn't totally convinced, and she said.

461
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 9: But there's that guy that works here. He's in the

462
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 9: back right now. He might know him. And I said, okay.

463
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 8: Mana walked to the back of the store and.

464
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 9: This guy is like stocking shelves and we're like, hi,

465
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 9: he looks like really worried.

466
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 8: Mana tells him they're looking for Rainaldo, and the guy

467
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 8: still looks worried. So she tries to reassure him.

468
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 9: Like, we're not from the government, we just really want

469
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 9: to make sure that he shows up to court because

470
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 9: it's really important.

471
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 8: Finally the man says, no, I don't really know him.

472
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 9: And then he's like, Okay, hold on a second, I'll

473
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 9: be back. And then he went, and we were waiting,

474
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 9: and we're waiting, we're.

475
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 8: Waiting, they bought something, waited some more. Finally they gave

476
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 8: up and headed back to the car.

477
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 9: And so as we're leaving this store, he's at the side,

478
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 9: like smoking a cigarette, and he just looks at us

479
00:24:52,560 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 9: and like looks away. So, yeah, that was kind of it.

480
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 5: Do you think he was in the back of that store.

481
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 8: That's Max Siegelbaum who reported this story with me.

482
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 9: I don't know. I don't know. I don't think he

483
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 9: himself was, but I do think the person we talked

484
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 9: to either knew him or was related to him. Will

485
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 9: never be sure.

486
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 8: Mana has spent a lot of time in the communities

487
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 8: around Rainaldo's address, and she says that for a lot

488
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 8: of people, staying anonymous is a conscious choice.

489
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 9: At certain point, you know, you kind of got to

490
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 9: respect people living in these communities and their witches to

491
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 9: like not talk about these things, because usually even if

492
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 9: you do participate or engage with the legal system, it's

493
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 9: likely that you won't get the outcome you want.

494
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 8: Back in Philadelphia, Matthew Archimbau knew Rainaldo's immigration court hearing

495
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 8: was coming up pretty quick. And one day, a couple

496
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 8: of weeks after the Attorney General's decision to reopen Rainaldo's case.

497
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 6: I thought hundred number to see, like did they schedule

498
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 6: a hearing? And I dial it, and all of a

499
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 6: sudden I realized that they scheduled a hearing and it

500
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 6: was for the next day, and I thought, okay, what

501
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 6: can I do? And I'm like, well, I don't have him.

502
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 8: He didn't find right now, though, So scratch Plan A.

503
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 6: I'm like, well, what if I go as a friend

504
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 6: of the court.

505
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 8: A friend of the court that's when a lawyer can

506
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 8: make arguments in a case where they don't have a client.

507
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 8: Perfect Plan B. So the next day Archimbau walked down

508
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 8: to the court. It's just a few blocks from his office,

509
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 8: and as he walked into the courtroom, he noticed it

510
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 8: was a little busier than usual.

511
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 6: The court is kind of filling up with immigration attorneys

512
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 6: who had no business being there other than to watch me.

513
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 8: It seemed like word had gotten around about Archimba's plan.

514
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 6: So Judge Morley walked in, remember.

515
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 8: He was the judge who had closed Rainaldo's case. Archimbo says,

516
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 8: they've known each other for a long time time.

517
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 6: This is a big case for him, and he knows

518
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 6: the import of the decision from the Attorney General and

519
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 6: he's like, oh, mister Arschwall. He's like, do you have

520
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 6: a client? And I said not really so, and he's like, okay, okay, okay.

521
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 8: Let me sit down, and the hearing began.

522
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 4: Immigration just Stephen Morley presiding the removal proceedings of Renaldo

523
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: Raynaldo Castro.

524
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 8: Tom The judge starts the hearing by addressing Archimba, have.

525
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 6: You been in communication with your client? You have your

526
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 6: friend to the court coil we have attempted.

527
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 8: Archimbau explains Mana's trip out to the trailer park, and

528
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 8: he says he's worried that Rainaldo still doesn't know he's

529
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 8: supposed to be here.

530
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 6: And we want to make sure that he gets the

531
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 6: fair notice that he is due under the law and

532
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 6: in comports with a due process. And I could go on.

533
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 8: So but Archinba is known for joking around in the courtroom.

534
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 5: Sure you could.

535
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 8: It seems like Archimbau and Judge Morley agreed that Rainaldo

536
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 8: getting a deportation order when he probably doesn't even know

537
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 8: he needs to be here. That doesn't feel right. But

538
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 8: the government lawyer, he's the guy who's prosecuting Raynaldo here,

539
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 8: he disagrees.

540
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 5: I would move to proceed an absension. I don't believe.

541
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 8: He says that if Ronaldo doesn't show that day, the

542
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 8: judge should go ahead and order him deported no more delays.

543
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 8: But Judge Morley thinks giving him one more shot is

544
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 8: only fair.

545
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: The problem is the address in the problem all along.

546
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 8: So he postpones the case one more time for just

547
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 8: a couple months, and he closes by addressing Archimbau with

548
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 8: a little joke of his own, and he.

549
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 5: Of the consequences of Australia to appear.

550
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 8: This decision wouldn't be without consequences. After the hearing, Archimbau

551
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 8: walked up to Judge Morley to get some paperwork.

552
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 6: Didn't He just looked at me and he said, like,

553
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 6: I think I'm gonna catch some shit for this, and

554
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 6: he did. He did, And I think this is where

555
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 6: the story becomes more consequential for immigration courts.

556
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 8: A few days later, Matthew Archinbau went online to file

557
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 8: some paperwork for Rainaldo's next hearing, and.

558
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 6: What I noticed is a few days later Judge Morley

559
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 6: was off the case and it listed Judge ned.

560
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 8: Carney, Judge d Poly ned Carney.

561
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 6: Judge ned Carney. I came to find out at headquarters.

562
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 6: She's a judge who works out of headquarters in Virginia.

563
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 8: She was going to travel all the way to Philadelphia

564
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 8: to hear Rainaldo's case one case.

565
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 6: She took the train up, drove up. I don't know

566
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 6: how she got here for one case.

567
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 8: So July of twenty eighteen year old, around the date

568
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 8: of Ronaldo's next hearing, and Archimbo says the court was

569
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 8: also crowded. This time Judge ned Carney walked in.

570
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 10: This is a removal proceeding being conducted.

571
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: A matter of Rinaldo Castro tune.

572
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 8: From the get go, the tone of this hearing is

573
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 8: a little different from the last one. No jokes this time.

574
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 10: Turning to today's hearing, it is now one eight and

575
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 10: the respondents still not in the courtroom.

576
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 8: They had called Rinaldo's name in the waiting room, but

577
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 8: he's still not here.

578
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 10: The government requested that the court proceed in absentia if

579
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 10: the respondent failed to appear today. Mister Scott, is that

580
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 10: the government's.

581
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 8: Position, Mister Scott is the government attorney.

582
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 9: Yes.

583
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 8: Then Judge ned Carney turns to her computer and starts

584
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 8: reading her decision.

585
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 10: I found, by clear, unequivocal and convincing evidence that the

586
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 10: respondent is removable from the United States, and I will

587
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 10: order his removal from the United States.

588
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 8: Tom that's it. Rinaldo Custrotomb is ordered deported.

589
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 10: Is there anything for them?

590
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 1: Mister Scott not indags.

591
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 8: For most of this hearing, Archimbau has been sitting there silently,

592
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 8: but he jumps in at the end.

593
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 6: We do want to raise concerns with the manner that

594
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 6: this case was handled, in the fact that Judge Morley

595
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 6: was taken off this matter.

596
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 8: He's like, it really seems like the government was trying

597
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 8: to send a message to immigration judges here, but they

598
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 8: better be in lockst up with what the Attorney General

599
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 8: had in mind, or else they could get pulled off

600
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 8: their cases.

601
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 6: And as I parted, the fact that Attorney General Sessions

602
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 6: would choose this case unaccompanied minor, he's unrepresented, as a

603
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 6: seminole case on these issues is quite frankly disturbing, and

604
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 6: I dare say discussed I thank you for coming to Philadelphia,

605
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 6: thank you, and it was don't know, I didn't expect

606
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 6: anything different.

607
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 8: He figured that at this point any judge would have

608
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 8: ordered Rainaldo deported, even Judge Morley. Since the Attorney General's

609
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 8: decision on kestro Tom, there have been a whole series

610
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 8: of other decisions that have pushed immigration judges to do

611
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 8: exactly what the Trump administration dictates. It's made it harder

612
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 8: and harder for them to make independent decisions. They have

613
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 8: to toe the line. And this might partly answer this

614
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 8: question that I kept thinking about, which was why Rainaldo

615
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 8: castro toom? Why this kid who had done nothing wrong,

616
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 8: who had broken the laws, and who nobody had had

617
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 8: any contact with. And we can't really know, but Archimbo

618
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 8: seems to think that Sessions kind of picked it out

619
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 8: at random.

620
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 6: I mean, he wanted to talk about administrative closure, and

621
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 6: it's probably just one that day picked out.

622
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 8: But at this point for Archimbau, Raynaldo Castro toom the

623
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 8: man has become a low key obsession. Even now, a

624
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 8: couple of years after the end of the case.

625
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 6: It's funny every time I have a client from Guatemala.

626
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 6: The last thing I asked you that, by the way,

627
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 6: do you know Rinaldo cast Thoten.

628
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 8: We wanted to hear the judges perspective on this, and

629
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 8: we reached out to the immigration court system to try

630
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 8: to talk to Judge Morley and Judge Nett Krney about

631
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 8: the case, but we were told that immigration judges don't

632
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 8: give interviews. So I sat down with Ashley Tabador.

633
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 7: It needs to be clear that I'm speaking to you

634
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 7: in my capacity as the president of the National Association

635
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 7: of Immigration Judges.

636
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 8: She is a judge too, but she's allowed to speak

637
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 8: to us as a union representative, and she's not a

638
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 8: fan of the Castratomb decision for a bunch of reasons,

639
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 8: one of which is that now prosecutors and judges can't

640
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 8: look at a case and say, you know, it's not

641
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 8: a priority to deport this person, why don't we close

642
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 8: their case for now?

643
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 7: So it took out the humanitarian part. It took out

644
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 7: the ability for the prosecutor to exercise any compassion or

645
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 7: really considered the humanitarian element of the case.

646
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 8: We've heard from lawyers who represent immigrants that a number

647
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 8: of their clients who had had cases administratively closed, sometimes

648
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 8: for years, have had them reopened.

649
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 7: Well, the cases that have been administratively close after Castro

650
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 7: Tomb are technically.

651
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 5: Now should be reopened.

652
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 8: Which meant that more than three hundred and fifty thousand

653
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 8: people could now get sucked back into deportation proceedings. In practice,

654
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 8: not all of their cases have been reopened. We don't

655
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 8: know exactly how many have, but it's probably in the

656
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 8: tens of thousands. And an ICE official recently said at

657
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 8: a conference that the government is looking to use the

658
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 8: free time they've had during the pandemic to double down

659
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 8: on reopening cases. Which gets us back to Roland, Sylvaine.

660
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: What we're doing the test one right now?

661
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 8: I guess we say Roland. I The first time Mazen

662
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 8: and I talked to Roland was back in January, before

663
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 8: the pandemic, so I caught up with him again a

664
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 8: few weeks ago. Immigration cases are slow and not much

665
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 8: has happened in his case since it got reopened two

666
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 8: years ago, but his final hearing is coming up in

667
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 8: March of twenty twenty one, and the stakes are really high.

668
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 8: Without administrative closure, our legal system doesn't have a lot

669
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 8: of options for Roland to get to stay in the US.

670
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 8: But whenever the looming threat of deportation pops into Roland's

671
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 8: mind these days, he tries to shut down the thought fast.

672
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: Because, you know, the first time around, when I dealt

673
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: with this case, I didn't play the mental trick as

674
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: much was it literally ate me up.

675
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 8: And he doesn't want to let it eat him up

676
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 8: again because in the time since his case was reopened,

677
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 8: he's built a new happy life.

678
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: You know, I've met a woman of my dreams.

679
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 8: And Roland is in love.

680
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 11: We both had a mutual best friend.

681
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 8: This is Lily. Lily and Henry.

682
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 11: For like I would say, two years he was hunting

683
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 11: me down on social media, liking my pictures.

684
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 8: Lily ignored those likes for a while, but then she

685
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 8: noticed a funny coincidence. Roland's birthday is the day before

686
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 8: her mother's, but she took as a sign.

687
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 11: So I was like, oh, maybe he is the man.

688
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 11: So I sent them a happy birthday on two different

689
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 11: social media free it was two, it was about four,

690
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 11: it was two.

691
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 8: I wasn't able to fact check the specifics of this

692
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 8: after she.

693
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: Wished me happy birthday on like I don't know, four

694
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: or five different now, on like four or five different

695
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: social media outlets, and I said, Okay, she wants me

696
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: for sure.

697
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 8: When they finally connected, they talked on the phone for

698
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 8: two days straight, which let them cover a lot of ground, like.

699
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: I love martial arts. He loves that too.

700
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: You know, it's all about her daughter and I'm all

701
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: about my kids. We really just got along.

702
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: I felt like he was the mirror image of.

703
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 8: My During those conversations, Roland told Lily about his immigration case.

704
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 11: And it was one of those things like, gosh, do

705
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 11: I stay or do I jump ship? Because that sounds

706
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 11: a little complicated and very unfair.

707
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 8: But she didn't jump ship. They actually got married a

708
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 8: couple months ago, and his case is part of her

709
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 8: life now.

710
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 11: It's like a kryptonite in this house. We don't talk

711
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 11: about what if it doesn't work out. We just don't

712
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 11: address it. But his mother and I have talked about

713
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 11: what if it doesn't work out, what plans we have

714
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 11: set up. We've discussed that because, to be afair with you,

715
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 11: neither one of us know the country.

716
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 8: Lily was also born in Haiti and she also immigrated

717
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 8: as a young child.

718
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 2: I can't even speak the language fluidly.

719
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 8: Roland can't speak the language fluidly either, and he worries

720
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 8: about how people will see him if he does get

721
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 8: sent back.

722
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: If you're someone that you know, like they say, you've

723
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 2: made it to the Promised Land, you made it to

724
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: America and ended up being deported back to your country,

725
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: people usually look at you as being like the bottomless, worthless,

726
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: like you know, like how did you mess that up?

727
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: What did you do?

728
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 8: He's scared that people are going to look at him

729
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 8: and assume that he committed a serious crime.

730
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: You know, you're a murderer or you or your you know,

731
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: robber or drug dealer, or they would never understand it's

732
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: related to traffic, right it's I mean even now, even

733
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: even here in America, trying to explain it to like

734
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: family members, or trying to explain it to like, you know,

735
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: within a few friends and stuff like that automatically. It's

736
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: like rolling a ligne. What did you do?

737
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 8: For now? All Roland can do is try to explain

738
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 8: it and wait. There's only a few more months till

739
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 8: that final hearing. Roland could find himself back in Haiti

740
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 8: soon as a punishment for writing his cousin's name on

741
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 8: three traffic tickets two decades ago. But he's trying not

742
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 8: to think about that.

743
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Alissa Scarce Marza and Sudahmed

744
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: and Max Siegelbaum. It was edited by Luis Trees. It

745
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: was mixed by Stephanie Lebau, fact checking by Hannah Beckler

746
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: and Mary Retta. This piece was reported in partnership with

747
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: the Wayne Barrett Project at Type Investigations. Special thanks to

748
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: Type Investigations editor Sarah Bluestain, as well as Jessica Rofe,

749
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: Jonathan Greenspan, Denish McCoy, Alissa Wellick, Kendall Nisted, Nimi Sankoff,

750
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: Matthew Lamberti, Evangeline Chan and Max Mitchell from the Legal

751
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: Intelligencer in Philadelphia. The Latino USA team includes Victoria Strada,

752
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea Lopez Grusado, Flodi mart Marquez, Marta Martinez,

753
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: Mike Sargent, Noor Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Penilee Ramirez is

754
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: our co executive producer. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso.

755
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was

756
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: composed by Zenia Ruinos. I'm your host and executive producer

757
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: Maria jo Josa. Join us again on our next episode.

758
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: In the meantime, look for us on your social media.

759
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 1: I'll see you there and remember dotevayes Ciao.

760
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 12: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,

761
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 12: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,

762
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 12: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the

763
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 12: Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at

764
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 12: hsfoundation dot org.

765
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: Oh Hello,